Poll
Question:
Do you consider Host's "The Planets" a masterpiece?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 41
Option 2: No
votes: 11
Option 3: Unsure
votes: 6
In my opinion, not only is it an inspired concept, it's also packed full of superb themes and according to many who have studied the scores, also full of subtlety (this was brought up in the recent Planets Mystery Orchestra thread). IMO a superbly executed masterpiece, a real joy to listen to.
Anyone dislike it for reasons other than overexposure?
I don't dislike it. I just find it not that interesting. It has never grabbed my attention, certainly doesn't do it for me the same way Ma Vlast does.
It's a great work, full of brilliant ideas, superbly orchestrated. If only it didn't overshadow some of Holst's other fine works, such as Hammersmith, Invocation, A Somerset Rhapsody, Egdon Heath, The Hymn of Jesus, Beni Mora etc..
Thomas
great work, and prophetic too, it seemed he knew more about planets than most astronomers in his day...
Quote from: sound67 on August 27, 2007, 12:03:32 PM
It's a great work, full of brilliant ideas, superbly orchestrated. If only it didn't overshadow some of Holst's other fine works, such as Hammersmith, Invocation, A Somerset Rhapsody, Egdon Heath, The Hymn of Jesus, Beni Mora etc..
Thomas
Agreed.
I love The Planets, and these days, you don't seem to see it all that often in the concert hall. (Perhaps that's different in the UK.)
I was trying to recall what version I heard growing up, and can't, although it was most likely Boult, but my favorite version for awhile has been with Dutoit and Montréal. They really characterize the various sections quite well, and the sonics are still impressive, even after some 25 years. (Hard to believe this recording is actually that old.)
Just this weekend I finally heard Levine and Chicago, and liked it quite a bit. The Chicago brass really shone in "Jupiter," and the women of the Chicago Symphony Chorus were about as ethereal as you could want in "Neptune." I love this comment from a guy on Amazon:
The powerful, brassy sound other reviewers have spoke of is obvious here and it works perfectly. My only gripe is not really a bad thing. The dynamic range on this disc is tremendous. I often am forced to listen to music at levels which won't get me evicted from my apartment.
--Bruce
I've both heard it live and performed it live. It is a fantastic work and a great exercise in orchestral coloring. Overexposure doesn't make it any less great. However, it is unfortunate that other excellent pieces by Holst are often overshadowed. The fault does not lie with the music or the composer, it lies with us.
Would Star Wars be what it is without The Planets?
:)
Quote from: beclemund on August 27, 2007, 03:26:21 PM
Would Star Wars be what it is without The Planets?
:)
Quite. I've often thought this.
Quote from: beclemund on August 27, 2007, 03:26:21 PM
Would Star Wars be what it is without The Planets?
:)
The same way it is with
The Planets, a worthless piece of trash.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 27, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
The same way it is with The Planets, a worthless piece of trash.
mm, the only place on the earth where you can make that statement and not get hurt.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 27, 2007, 08:57:24 PM
mm, the only place on the earth where you can make that statement and not get hurt.
I don't know, he is probably safe to say it in the baby food isle in Tesco supermarket. But it would not make it any more of a sensible statement.
I heard part of it on radio last week conducted by Malcolm Seargeant. It sounded wonderfully fresh and exciting.
Mike
Trash is the last thing I think of when listening to The Planets. It's not about the planets anyway. It's about the Roman Gods named for the planets in which Jupiter gets the biggest piece of real-estate in the solar system and clearly the most popular and soaring theme.
As for Ma Vlast, that is a work which The Planets can never equal.
What a strange idea, to compare Ma Vlast and The Planets, two completely different pieces which have nothing in common except that they are both (in a way) orchestral suites with a programmatic background. Although The Planets is really more a suite while Ma Valst is a cycle. But anyway, I don't see any reason or any point in comparing them.
Seen by itself, I think The Planets is indeed a stunningly inventive and well written orchestral piece. Yes, there is quite a bit of copy and paste going on, but in a very general, stylistic way, not in a simple "borrowing" way, and it is all integrated very seamlessly into an unique compositional style. It is also extremely detailed in the scoring and just very fluently written, not "stitched" together.
Which is the "best" Planet?
My favourite is Saturn the Bringer of Old Age.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 27, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
The same way it is with The Planets, a worthless piece of trash.
Nor is Star Wars:
YOU go ahead and write 120 minutes of orchestral music in two weeks!
The later "Empire Strikes Back" may be a better score (in fact, it's a superb one), but the original Star Wars put symphonic music in films back on the map singlehandedly.
Quote from: beclemund on August 27, 2007, 03:26:21 PM
Would Star Wars be what it is without The Planets?
:)
Well, Holst isn't John Williams' only influence. Star Wars has a lot music that does not sound Holst (I'd even say the music of Star Wars saga has more Elgar influences than Holst) and JW has done many non-Holstian scores (e.g. the Oscar-winning score for Jaws).
Quote from: vandermolen on August 27, 2007, 11:37:22 PM
Which is the "best" Planet?
My favourite is Saturn the Bringer of Old Age.
Neptune for me - I like Venus a lot as well, but I tire of it faster than the strange Neptune movement.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 28, 2007, 02:33:29 AM
Well, Holst isn't John Williams' only influence. Star Wars has a lot music that does not sound Holst (I'd even say the music of Star Wars saga has more Elgar influences than Holst) and JW has done many non-Holstian scores (e.g. the Oscar-winning score for Jaws).
As far as Star Wars goes, I'd rank Holst, Mahler and Stravinksy as the "top three" influences, in terms of melody. Wagner in terms of style, and indeed more than a little Elgar in certain "textures". But I haven't relistened to the complete soundtrack for quite some time, so I might recognise others in there too, if I give it a go now.
Influences or not, though, it's a fantastic soundtrack: or a fantastic medley, take your pick. ;)
On topic,
yes, The Planets is definitely a masterpiece, in my opinion. It's doesn't "shout" genius as other pieces might, but it is a
most inspired orchestral (and choral) composition, nonetheless. And very different from Ma Vlast... Possibly the "pop" factor, connecting them?
Quote from: vandermolen on August 27, 2007, 11:37:22 PM
Which is the "best" Planet?
My favourite is Saturn the Bringer of Old Age.
My favourites are Mars & Jupiter.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 27, 2007, 11:37:22 PM
Which is the "best" Planet?
I really like the suite as a whole. Not a dull moment in the lot.
(Wish I could say the same for . . . certain
other composers :-)
In a BBC CD Review comparison the Atlanta/Levi disc came out on top.
Anyone here agree?
Quote from: E d o on August 28, 2007, 07:48:15 AM
In a BBC CD Review comparison the Atlanta/Levi disc came out on top.
Anyone here agree?
Interesting. I haven't heard this one, but recall some other positive reviews. It's a really competitive field, though, for this piece - many fine ones around. My ears are still ringing (in a good way) from the CSO brass after hearing the Levine version last weekend. :D
--Bruce
Favourite Planet? Venus. There are moments in it that bring a lump to my throat. A very bittersweet movement, IMO.
Interesting that someone should mention Ma Vlast. There are some definite similarities between the two compositions; and Ma Vlast is not a minor piece by any standards; indeed, if you've got a good recording (mine is by Wolfgang Sawallisch and l'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande), it sounds very like great music. ;D
But The Planets is special. The concept is challenging, but without musical greatness it wouldn't be great. (No, max, it's not about the Greco-Roman gods either, but rather about the planets' astrological significances.)
I think the instrumentation is one reason it's not performed more than it is. Not many orchestras have a bass oboe or a tenor tuba at their disposal, and even alto flutes, contrabassoons and symphonic pipe organs are not easy to find. (Yes, some of these parts can be played on other instruments, but the music loses something in the process.)
Quote from: karlhenning on August 28, 2007, 04:38:24 AM
(Wish I could say the same for . . . certain other composers :-)
Stockhausen, e.g.
After reading this book on the history and composition of Holst's Planets, I will never refer to it as anything but a masterpiece.
http://www.amazon.com/Holst-Planets-Cambridge-Music-Handbooks/dp/0521456339/ref=sr_1_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188346107&sr=1-1
Quote from: jochanaan on August 28, 2007, 11:36:01 AM
(No, max, it's not about the Greco-Roman gods either, but rather about the planets' astrological significances.)
And what forsooth would that be if not based on the Greco-Roman pantheon? Is it mere coincidence that each movement in the work has the name of a Roman God in front of it?
If it’s only a matter of ‘astrological significance’ - and I don’t dispute that this too may have been in the mind of Holst – then why denote all it’s movements in the nomenclature of Roman Gods?
Listen to Mars and Venus and tell me if their music is not a unique portrait of each as described in myth?
This work to my mind, has more to do with the character of the corresponding God or Goddess as denoted in myth or connotated within astrology but least of all with the planets themselves which was my point!
… if the Planets were named for the first hierarchy of Roman Gods than why not name the work ‘The Planets’? One name incorporating the name of all it’s movements…aside from
sounding more contemporary?
Quote from: hornteacher on August 28, 2007, 04:10:54 PM
After reading this book on the history and composition of Holst's Planets, I will never refer to it as anything but a masterpiece.
http://www.amazon.com/Holst-Planets-Cambridge-Music-Handbooks/dp/0521456339/ref=sr_1_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188346107&sr=1-1
Tell us more about this book. I see they have it at the UCSD library, it might be interesting for me to read, so I could check it out when I go there in the next few days to return my currently checked out books...actually, I should go tomorrow as they are all overdue...uh... ::)
Quote from: Renfield on August 28, 2007, 04:09:12 AM
As far as Star Wars goes, I'd rank Holst, Mahler and Stravinksy as the "top three" influences.
Let's not forget Korngold, whose "Kings Row" Theme is "alluded to" in the SW main theme.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 27, 2007, 11:20:35 AM
I don't dislike it. I just find it not that interesting. It has never grabbed my attention, certainly doesn't do it for me the same way Ma Vlast does.
Hmm. Although
The Planets is a bit derivative, with Stravinsky, Wagner and Debussy thrown into the pot, Holst filters those influences to create something with its own unique voice. Not one of the movements outstays its welcome or descends into empty bombast, unlike
Ma Vlast. I like parts of
Ma Vlast, but you could flush the scores of
Tabor and
Blanik down the toilet and the world wouldn't have lost anything important.
Quote from: MDL on August 29, 2007, 02:32:57 AM
... but you could flush the scores of Tabor and Blanik down the toilet and the world wouldn't have lost anything important.
Weren't those two the final pair, written long after the others? I've always thought they felt 'bolted on'.
Quote from: M forever on August 28, 2007, 07:41:56 PM
Tell us more about this book. I see they have it at the UCSD library, it might be interesting for me to read, so I could check it out when I go there in the next few days to return my currently checked out books...actually, I should go tomorrow as they are all overdue...uh... ::)
Sure. You'd probably enjoy it very much. It's about 100 pages and examines Holst as a composer, how his style changed after WWI, the order in which the suite was composed, Holst's intense study of astrology and how it relates to the suite, critical reception of the work at its first performances, a brief analysis of each movement and the overall large scale structure of the suite, a listing of Holst's public performances, and a nice chart that lists the tempos of each movement as recorded by various orchestras and conductors.
It's not light reading but it is very interesting stuff.
Strange, I feel much the same way about the last two of Má Vlast. I didn't suspect they were composed under different circumstances, but definitely preferred the first four more (#4 remains my favourite). It's an amazing work though - I find it more comparable to Sibelius's Lemminkäinen suite than the Planets.
Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2007, 05:41:05 AM
Strange, I feel much the same way about the last two of Má Vlast. I didn't suspect they were composed under different circumstances, but definitely preferred the first four more (#4 remains my favourite). It's an amazing work though - I find it more comparable to Sibelius's Lemminkäinen suite than the Planets.
Nice comparison with Sibelius. God only knows why anybody thought to compare
Ma Vlast with
The Planets in the first place. It's like comparing cheese and sausages.
Quote from: MDL on August 29, 2007, 06:10:31 AM
Nice comparison with Sibelius. God only knows why anybody thought to compare Ma Vlast with The Planets in the first place. It's like comparing cheese and sausages.
I guess I shouldn't mention that last week I cooked some Sicilian sausages, which tend to come with Pecorino Romano cheese in the mixture :D
Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2007, 06:16:24 AM
I guess I shouldn't mention that last week I cooked some Sicilian sausages, which tend to come with Pecorino Romano cheese in the mixture :D
Whoops. You got me. Sausages and ice cream then.
Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition is perhaps a better comparison, although the last movements are quite different in mood!
I recall Bernstein on a TV concert with the NY Philharmonic "ad-libbing" a "Pluto" movement after playing The Planets: I wonder if that is available anywhere.
I don't think Holst liked the popularity of The Planets and made sure he didn't repeat what he thought was a mistake. It's a fine work, however - more engaging than most of his other work. Moments of excellent orchestration appear in The Planets.
Quote from: max on August 28, 2007, 06:07:28 PM
And what forsooth would that be if not based on the Greco-Roman pantheon? Is it mere coincidence that each movement in the work has the name of a Roman God in front of it?...
No, but those are also the names the astrologers use. And if it were the mythological gods Holst was portraying, why is "Venus" called "The Bringer of Peace"? That was not her function in Greco-Roman mythology; she was the goddess of sex (not Love; that was Cupid/Eros). And Neptune was the sea god, while "Neptune" has nothing to do with the sea. Of course, some mythology might have crept into the music...
Quote from: jochanaan on August 29, 2007, 08:52:36 AM
No, but those are also the names the astrologers use. And if it were the mythological gods Holst was portraying, why is "Venus" called "The Bringer of Peace"? That was not her function in Greco-Roman mythology; she was the goddess of sex (not Love; that was Cupid/Eros).
Slightly off-topic, but Aphrodite was the goddess of love in terms of physical attraction,
and sex. Eros was more of a tool for her to achieve her purposes, than an independent diety. So love is essentially ascribed to sex, in Aphrodite's "mythos". :)
Regarding the current argument, I see The Planets as being almost equally influenced by astronomy and myth; not necessarily
Greek myth alone, but a lot of it sounds like a picture of traditional views of the "heavenly bodies" presented in the piece.
Favourite Planets
Votes so far:
Venus: 2 votes
Mars: 1 vote
Saturn: 1 vote
Mars: 1 vote
Jupiter: 1 vote
Neptune: 1 vote
No votes for Mercury or Uranus
My Favourites have always been Jupiter (the first piece I heard seperately before purchasing the entire Suite) and Uranus, with Mars being an all round good pick-me-up for the non-classically inclined.
Now I've actually been listening to the other movements, great for introspection on the work. It was all not happened sooner because of its role as a CD for newbies to riding with me in my car... ahahaha only played Mars, Jupiter, Uranus.
As for the Pluto thing, I have the CD with Colin Matthews Pluto on it and a ending-changed Neptune (to fit in with Matthew's Pluto) by the way, I guess Holst was right all along, as Pluto is no longer a planet. Screw St.Matthew's crap.
My Favourites have always been Jupiter (the first piece I heard seperately before purchasing the entire Suite) and Uranus, with Mars being an all round good pick-me-up for the non-classically inclined.
Now I've actually been listening to the other movements, great for introspection on the work. It was all not happened sooner because of its role as a CD for newbies to riding with me in my car... ahahaha only played Mars, Jupiter, Uranus.
As for the Pluto thing, I have the CD with Colin Matthews Pluto on it and a ending-changed Neptune (to fit in with Matthew's Pluto) by the way, I guess Holst was right all along, as Pluto is no longer a planet. Screw St.Matthew's crap.
My Favourites have always been Jupiter (the first piece I heard seperately before purchasing the entire Suite) and Uranus, with Mars being an all round good pick-me-up for the non-classically inclined.
Now I've actually been listening to the other movements, great for introspection on the work. It was all not happened sooner because of its role as a CD for newbies to riding with me in my car... ahahaha only played Mars, Jupiter, Uranus.
As for the Pluto thing, I have the CD with Colin Matthews Pluto on it and a ending-changed Neptune (to fit in with Matthew's Pluto) by the way, I guess Holst was right all along, as Pluto is no longer a planet. Screw St.Matthew's crap.
=======
....Mercury on Uranus would hurt....?
Is it a masterpiece? Well, I wouldn't have collected over 50 recordings and began studying it in depth if I didn't think so...
It's just a great, great piece, totally attractive but still challenging once you get into really looking at the score, something for all. And the moods are so varied between the movements, one of my favorite things about it. It's fascinating for studying how different conductors interpret a piece.
I agree about the Richard Greene Cambridge handbook, it's a must-get if you like the piece, or Holst in general. but you pretty much have to have the score as well (very cheap from Dover) because he goes in a lot of detail with specific measure numbers as to the theory and the themes and transformations, and the way they link between the movements. It's a superb analysis. You also get to find out the full history of the work, the conception, the premiere, how it was first received. He also has a chart at the end with a few recordings and tempos they take (which would be very interesting to expand upon). Greene also talks a lot about Holst's other works throughout too, so good to be familiar with those.
And I agree about Pluto or any other Planets-related works (the California Philharmonic is premiering an "Earth" next year) - they are not necessary. Good or bad pieces, that's irrelevant, a piece like this is perfect just as is, and should be left alone. It's fine to be influenced by it (Johan de Meij's 3rd Symphony 'Planet Earth' which takes off on Jupiter and Neptune) but to state you are "amending" the piece as is the intention with Matthews' Pluto, no. His piece is not bad, but I don't ever really have an urge to listen to it.
What I do have an "urge" to listen to often are Holst's wonderful other works that I have been introduced to as fillers (and all the other wonderful fillers as well, Grainger The Warriors, Varese Arcana, etc), his pieces such as St. Paul's Suite, Suite de Ballet and especially Egdon Heath and The Perfect Fool, they are amazing. Get Previn for those, you won't be sorry. Mackerras has an wonderful Perfect Fool as well.
As for the "best" Planets, that's like the question "who is the best orchestra in the world", there's no "right" answer. There are new ones (especially with young British conductors) coming out all the time, I've heard some and they're basically very good, if samey. It is a brilliant showpiece, but I'm most attracted to those who find something "more" there.
Most very famous conductors have recorded it at least once, Boult 5 times, Rattle 3, a good number twice, and some orchestras are on record with it 5 or 6 times, like LSO and Philharmonia, you're really spoiled for choice. I've gone to recommending recordings to people based on their specific taste or personality, lots have something unique and valid to offer.
This Mystery thread on the piece (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2387.0.html) has a summation of some of my favorites, but don't look over the non obvious ones, there are some goldmines out there, like Svetlanov and Philharmonia, Walter Susskind in St. Louis or Maazel with ONdF, that remind me why I am still collecting. It's like that "first love" you never fall out of love with. :)
Well, and it's about time Greta made it here! :)
Quote from: Greta on August 30, 2007, 01:01:33 PM
As for the "best" Planets, that's like the question "who is the best orchestra in the world", there's no "right" answer. There are new ones (especially with young British conductors) coming out all the time, I've heard some and they're basically very good, if samey. It is a brilliant showpiece, but I'm most attracted to those who find something "more" there.
My favorite version is the Gardiner/Philharmonia CD. The way he tackles Mars is fantastic. Much slower than I'm used to hearing it but I enjoyed it more because of that. Its like a line of slow moving tanks approaching on the horizon. I also enjoy the Jupiter movement as done by Bernstein with the NY Phil (he really takes his time with the slow section and pulls a lot out of it).
I hardly ever listen to it. If I want orchestral spectaculars, I'll go to the Mussorgsky-Ravel Pictures; or overtures by Mozart, Beethoven, Rossini, Auber, Suppe, Wagner; or tone poems by Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mayuzumi, and so on. The Planets just doesn't appeal to me, though it's obviously skillfully done.
I hardly ever listen to Scary Zade, too.
Quote from: Xenophanes on August 30, 2007, 07:18:08 PM
I hardly ever listen to it. If I want orchestral spectaculars, I'll go to the Mussorgsky-Ravel Pictures. ... The Planets just doesn't appeal to me, though it's obviously skillfully done.
I hardly ever listen to Scary Zade, too.
I have to agree, and voted No, though I'd vote no to some of your alternatives as well. I heard it live a few years ago when the conductor of the local orchestra had the bright idea (put on irony cap) of displaying NASA movies of the various planets while he was conducting the music. Problem was, the footage was so evocative and striking in itself that Holst turned into background music. I don't much listen to Scary Zade either, but I think I prefer it to the Solar System.
Having just watched a performance of 'The Planets' by the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra on BBC TV Scotland, I am reminded that I first fell in love with this great work back in 1956. Until then I had only heard 78s of Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner and Gilbert and Sullivan.
That year I was 9 years old and my father took me to my first orchestral concert-the BBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent in the Usher Hall in Edinburgh. I cannot remember what else was in the programme but I sat utterly enraptured listening to and watching a huge orchestra performing the Holst. (Incidentally, the offstage chorus in 'Neptune' was conducted by a very young Colin Davis). As I sat in wonder at the glorious sounds a full orchestra could make I knew then for certain that this was the sort of music I wanted to hear. For that reason 'The Planets' will always have a very special meaning for me.
My own favourite version is that by Dutoit and the Montreal Orchestra-a superb performance from a(perhaps) unlikely source.
I agree that 'The Planets' should not overwhelm Holst's other works, many of which-as others have said-are exceptionally fine and often visionary compositions. The Choral Fantasia is, I think, a particular masterpiece. It is, in a way, a great pity that the extraordinary powers of orchestration Holst demonstrated were never used again in a 'big' orchestral piece but clearly Holst wished to concentrate latterly on choral and smaller scale works. We should, I think, remember how 'advanced' 'The Planets' must have sounded when it was first performed. Yes, of course, there are echoes of contemporary European music(Stravinsky, Debussy etc) but this at a time in British musical history when very few other composers(Vaughan Williams to an extent in the London Symphony) had absorbed such influences. The shattering dissonances in 'Mars' are far ahead of virtually all other contemporary British music.
A masterpiece? For me, a definite affirmative!
Quote from: hornteacher on August 30, 2007, 07:03:55 PM
My favorite version is the Gardiner/Philharmonia CD. The way he tackles Mars is fantastic. Much slower than I'm used to hearing it but I enjoyed it more because of that. Its like a line of slow moving tanks approaching on the horizon. I also enjoy the Jupiter movement as done by Bernstein with the NY Phil (he really takes his time with the slow section and pulls a lot out of it).
Like this recording very much, too...but the most compelling Mars I've heard is Levine/CSO.
Quote from: jochanaan on August 29, 2007, 08:52:36 AM
...if it were the mythological gods Holst was portraying, why is "Venus" called "The Bringer of Peace"? That was not her function in Greco-Roman mythology; she was the goddess of sex (not Love; that was Cupid/Eros).
Ever had make-up sex, Jo?
Quote from: longears on September 22, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
Ever had make-up sex, Jo?
For a second, I totally misread this. Thought you were implying impropriety with a rep from Max Factor ...
Quote from: Mark on September 22, 2007, 03:35:43 PM
For a second, I totally misread this. Thought you were implying impropriety with a rep from Max Factor ...
I don't factor Max. ;D
like it - voted unsure - prefer Ma Vlast
Quote from: vandermolen on August 27, 2007, 11:37:22 PM
Which is the "best" Planet?
My favourite is Saturn the Bringer of Old Age.
My favourites are Venus (especially in Karajan's sensuous VPO recording from the 60s) and Neptune.
I think it's definitely a masterpiece, very passionate and intense; I absolutely love how the atmosphere changes in every movement, some times powerful, bright and impressive, some times calm, evocative and mysterious; so thrilling! This music expresses a deep beauty, showing an wonderful orchestration a great, balanced harmony among the instrument. :D
And the concept of "The Planets" was astrological, it was quite original.
Maybe the only negative aspect is that its huge success overshadowed the other Holst' works, like The Cloud Messenger, A Choral Fantasia, Savitri, etc., which are masterpieces as well. As a matter of fact, nowadays Holst is not very well known, except for "The Planets", what a pity......
The favouirite part for me has always been Jupiter (all of it not just the big tune, great end too). All of it is good though, and I can't think of another programatic several sectioned large scale work which is really as consistently good. Maybe I haven't heard a great performance of Ma Vlast but the only part of that that has appealed to me is the river section. The Planets is, naturally enough, more universal sounding. :D Although some may dismiss it as an orchestral fireworks piece and nothing more I think in a good performance it is definitely much more than that.
Yes, it is very nice, I love it, but it is to superficial to be a masterpiece. Something like The Music for the Royal Fireworks. I voted NO.
I'm sure it's far more varied than Music for the Royal Fireworks. There's a whole multitude of feelings in this piece. It's a shame that it seemed to develop a reputation as an orchestral or sonic showpiece.
Okay, so...
Every year I play The Planets for my 7th Grade Latin class as part of an introduction to basic Greco-Roman mythology. I make it a guessing game: Which god/goddess is the music describing?
Yesterday Saturn was played. I explained the reference to the Dies Irae and, despite the funereal aspect of the section, the students seemed to enjoy the music.
Later I asked one of the eccentric yet very intelligent boys whether or not he had liked the music.
(I am not making this up! ;) )
"Yeah, it was pretty good! It sounded like surfing music!"
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I: "Surfing music?! You mean...like the old rock group, the Beach Boys?"
He: "Yeah, kind of like them."
So I could come up with only two solutions: either his eccentric nature somehow distorted Saturn into "surfing music," or buried somewhere in the oeuvre of the Beach Boys is in fact a surfing Requiem...and this kid has heard it!!! 8)
I suppose 'Til I Die is a Beach Boys song about mortality, not saying it's really that comparable with Holst's music. Decent song though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46IQu0yuJzU
An unofficial mix of it might sound even better, highlights the vocal parts and the vibraphone more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oj0dLkiziY
Quote from: starrynight on September 27, 2017, 03:15:28 PM
I suppose 'Til I Die is a Beach Boys song about mortality, not saying it's really that comparable with Holst's music. Decent song though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46IQu0yuJzU
An unofficial mix of it might sound even better, highlights the vocal parts and the vibraphone more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oj0dLkiziY
Thanks for the information! Actually, given the boy's "eccentric" nature, he probably does not understand what "surfing music" is, despite his claim to the contrary. ;)
Quote from: Cato on September 27, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Thanks for the information! Actually, given the boy's "eccentric" nature, he probably does not understand what "surfing music" is, despite his claim to the contrary. ;)
Maybe he is thinking of surfing the web?
My connection to surfing culture is less than minimal, but I assume current* day surfers listen to contemporary rock, rap, and metal, and that's what he was thinking of.
*Pun not intended