Sony/BMG's 60-CD Beethoven: Complete Masterpieces set is now just $27.49 at Amazon.com.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XZ0SUOILL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Grazioso on August 28, 2007, 04:10:37 AM
Sony/BMG's 60-CD Beethoven: Complete Masterpieces set is now just $27.49 at Amazon.com.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XZ0SUOILL._AA240_.jpg)
Whatever you own of LvB recordings already, this is a most valuable set, containing among others Zinman´s Symphonies, Ouvertures and Concertos and Charles Rosens late Sonatas. This alone is more worth than the cost.
Quote from: Grazioso on August 28, 2007, 04:10:37 AM
now just $27.49 at Amazon.com.
Utterly insane price ........
The Alexander QT does the QT's, no?
Quote from: George on August 28, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
The Alexander QT does the QT's, no?
Yes, haven´t heard them yet, and I think, it will take some time, until I get that far.
Quote from: premont on August 28, 2007, 05:05:51 AM
Yes, haven´t heard them yet, and I think, it will take some time, until I get that far.
I have one disc and enjoy it. The sound is great as well.
Quote from: George on August 28, 2007, 05:10:18 AM
I have one disc and enjoy it. The sound is great as well.
Which one?
It might be a bargain, but I would supplement (or replace) anything conducted by David Zinman with readings of the symphonies and Missa Solemnis that offer a less streamlined, slick, "Beethoven-lite" approach complete with cutesy ornamentation that is never an improvement over the written texts. I've gotten rid of any Zinman Beethoven I owned. An inexpensive set of the symphonies such as the Mackerras or Szell, plus a Missa like Bernstein's or Klemperer's, would not break the budget and would provide far better music-making.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 28, 2007, 05:40:46 AM
cutesy ornamentation
Yeah, LvB would not approve ...........
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 28, 2007, 05:40:46 AM
It might be a bargain, but I would supplement (or replace) anything conducted by David Zinman with readings of the symphonies and Missa Solemnis that offer a less streamlined, slick, "Beethoven-lite" approach complete with cutesy ornamentation that is never an improvement over the written texts. I've gotten rid of any Zinman Beethoven I owned. An inexpensive set of the symphonies such as the Mackerras or Szell, plus a Missa like Bernstein's or Klemperer's, would not break the budget and would provide far better music-making.
As the years roll on, I return to the Szell set with more and more awe. Mackerras I find too light for my taste here.
Any strengths or weaknesses in the Szell symphony series (with Cleveland presumably) ??
What's the sound like ?
Thanks
PS : I love Szell in Haydn and Brahms ...... I have both of these sets
Quote from: alkan on August 28, 2007, 05:57:29 AM
Any strengths or weaknesses in the Szell symphony series (with Cleveland presumably) ??
What's the sound like ?
Thanks
PS : I love Szell in Haydn and Brahms ...... I have both of these sets
Yes, Cleveland...
Run, don't walk to your nearest store/website!! :D
Seriously, the sound is exceptional for it's age. The performances are brisk and muscular. Sample the opening to the 3rd symphony on amazon and you'll see what I mean.
If you can get it coupled with the concerti, go for it, as those performances are classics as well. Otherwise, I would look for them in the used stores, usually they have a couple.
Quote from: alkan on August 28, 2007, 05:57:29 AM
Any strengths or weaknesses in the Szell symphony series (with Cleveland presumably) ??
What's the sound like ?
To augment George's succinct (but apt) recommendation...the Szell Beethoven cycle's 3rd, 8th and 9th are exceptional. All the rest are at least very good, though some reveal their value only over time. I came to a greater appreciation of his 6th not long ago...I tend to prefer Walter/ColSO, Cluytens et al...but the precision and the faster pacing that Szell offers actually does work IMO.
I'm told that if you are a native German speaker, you may have issues with the pronunciation of the soloists/chorus in 9.iv (I'm blissfully ignorant of such refined understanding, so I can enjoy the performance without wincing), but the performance is one of the most cohesive ones I've heard in the stereo era, with a natural progression, excellent segues from movement to movement, and beautifully taut control throughout; he may not achieve the refined blend offered by Fricsay (another stereo fave of mine), but it never seems like the orchestra's in danger of running away from him (which for me mars the i and some of the ii in Karajan's famous 1963 version). So far as interp is concerned, I'd swear Szell had been listening to the classic Mengelberg/COA 9th of 1940 for his inspiration.
The 8th I'd put on the same level with Scherchen, who's wilder than Szell but no less serious about treating this symphony with the respect it's due. This is a must-hear IMO.
FWIW. Since you like Szell's Haydn and Brahms, I have to think you'll enjoy his Beethoven. And though this is going far afield from the thread topic, for heaven's sake, don't miss Szell's late Mozart symphonies or his Mozart concerti with Serkin and Casadesus.
Enjoy,
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on August 28, 2007, 07:39:32 AM
To augment George's succinct (but apt) recommendation...the Szell Beethoven cycle's 3rd, 8th and 9th are exceptional. All the rest are at least very good, though some reveal their value only over time. I came to a greater appreciation of his 6th not long ago...I tend to prefer Walter/ColSO, Cluytens et al...but the precision and the faster pacing that Szell offers actually does work IMO.
I'm told that if you are a native German speaker, you may have issues with the pronunciation of the soloists/chorus in 9.iv (I'm blissfully ignorant of such refined understanding, so I can enjoy the performance without wincing), but the performance is one of the most cohesive ones I've heard in the stereo era, with a natural progression, excellent segues from movement to movement, and beautifully taut control throughout; he may not achieve the refined blend offered by Fricsay (another stereo fave of mine), but it never seems like the orchestra's in danger of running away from him (which for me mars the i and some of the ii in Karajan's famous 1963 version). So far as interp is concerned, I'd swear Szell had been listening to the classic Mengelberg/COA 9th of 1940 for his inspiration.
The 8th I'd put on the same level with Scherchen, who's wilder than Szell but no less serious about treating this symphony with the respect it's due. This is a must-hear IMO.
FWIW. Since you like Szell's Haydn and Brahms, I have to think you'll enjoy his Beethoven. And though this is going far afield from the thread topic, for heaven's sake, don't miss Szell's late Mozart symphonies or his Mozart concerti with Serkin and Casadesus.
Enjoy,
Dirk
What do you think of Szell in 2? That's probably my favourite performance amongst the Szell Beethovens I know (and I prefer it to 3 & 8).
Btw, which Scherchen do you like for 8? I think the studio one's great but haven't heard the Lugano one.
Quote from: George on August 28, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
The Alexander QT does the QT's, no?
For what it's worth, The Teaching Co. uses the Alexander Quartet for the music in their course, "The Chamber Music of Mozart." The course just happens to be on sale right now. I am in no way connected to the company,
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=7237&id=7237&pc=SaleFine%20Arts%20and%20Music
Quote from: edward on August 28, 2007, 08:18:42 AM
What do you think of Szell in 2?
I like his version a lot, but I actually like Reiner/Pittsburgh and Scherchen even more. Szell, however, has the benefit of better recording than either of those two.
Oh...and I haven't done a spin-off between the studio and Lugano Scherchen 8ths. I probably should. And if I do so any time soon, I'll report.
;)
Dirk
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 28, 2007, 05:40:46 AM
It might be a bargain, but I would supplement (or replace) anything conducted by David Zinman with readings of the symphonies and Missa Solemnis that offer a less streamlined, slick, "Beethoven-lite" approach complete with cutesy ornamentation that is never an improvement over the written texts. I've gotten rid of any Zinman Beethoven I owned. An inexpensive set of the symphonies such as the Mackerras or Szell, plus a Missa like Bernstein's or Klemperer's, would not break the budget and would provide far better music-making.
I admit with pleasure, that Zinmans LvB Symphonies isn´t my preferred recording, nor do I like his "cutesy ornamentation", but in the later years I have appreciated a less traditional LvB like Mackerras´ more and more . Also Hogwood´s Symphonies, Lubin/Hogwood´s and Levin/Gardiner´s Piano concertos and so on, without being fanatical though. In this context I find Zinmans LvB recordings (the Piano concertos and the Violin concerto with the excellent soloists Bronfman and Tetzlaff at most) well worth owning (especially regarding the actual "dirty"-price), -certainly not as the one and only version, but as one of say 5 - 10 versions, and you may BTW easily catch me enjoying Klemperer, Fricsay or the likes.
I have this set, and its worth every penny for the symphonies and SQ alone!
Quote from: Harry on August 28, 2007, 10:49:48 AM
I have this set, and its worth every penny for the symphonies and SQ alone!
I remember a while ago when we briefly talked about "My getting this set", I didn't at the time, then saw this thread and thought WOW £17.50p DELIVERED for 60cds....that's one heck of a bargain.
Couldn't resist, its now on order ;D
After looking at what's on offer I would estimate that 40% of the music on the set are works I have not yet heard, wether a beginner or piecemeal collector to grab them at this price, is a real no brainer.
Quote from: George on August 28, 2007, 05:47:18 AM
As the years roll on, I return to the Szell set with more and more awe. Mackerras I find too light for my taste here.
You're also a big fan of the Barenboim cycle, are you not? Whereas I don't see the appeal of his readings of the symphonies, save for the Seventh and Eighth.
Quote from: Mark on August 28, 2007, 11:33:46 AM
You're also a big fan of the Barenboim cycle, are you not?
That's right. Maybe not a big fan, since I have only heard it a few times, but definitely like it a whole lot more than the Mackerras. Of course that's how i feel today. There was a time that I didn't like the Vegh QT's LvB, but now they are my favorite. So I will continue tot try to keep my mind open.
Quote from: George on August 28, 2007, 07:47:25 PM
That's right. Maybe not a big fan, since I have only heard it a few times, but definitely like it a whole lot more than the Mackerras. Of course that's how i feel today. There was a time that I didn't like the Vegh QT's LvB, but now they are my favorite. So I will continue tot try to keep my mind open.
Mackerras is a good example of the fast, slick approach, but far better at it than Zinman.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 28, 2007, 07:52:54 PM
Mackerras is a good example of the fast, slick approach, but far better at it than Zinman.
What is wrong with "the fast slick" approach, except that you don´t like it??
On the other hand I do like it.
Quote from: premont on August 29, 2007, 12:04:56 AM
What is wrong with "the fast slick" approach, except that you don´t like it??
On the other hand I do like it.
Count me in as well!
Quote from: premont on August 29, 2007, 12:04:56 AM
What is wrong with "the fast slick" approach, except that you don´t like it??
On the other hand I do like it.
For one thing, it's fast; for another, it's slick. :D
To answer less frivolously: my dislike is based on the impression I get that the conductor (not always the case with even Zinman, but sometimes with the likes of Norrington, Gardiner, Bruggen, Savall - mostly the HIP crowd) is trying to race through the piece as fast as possible, perhaps in an effort to keep up with Beethoven's at times impossible metronome points. If the musicians are scrambling just to get the notes out, it is less possible for them to phrase and articulate the music in a way that gives life, variety, and gravitas to the work. I'm not looking for the monumentality of a Klemperer either, but for an approach that takes Beethoven's tempo and character indications seriously while letting the music breathe as needed. That's my fast (and no doubt slick) answer to your question.
Actually, to "toss in" a semi-on-topic view, I do appreciate Zinman's Beethoven quite a lot, myself. And the reason I'm saying it in this tone is that you could definitely call me a fan of "big-band" Beethoven, of the Karajan or Klemperer variety.
So I don't appreciate HIP much, for Beethoven. Nor do I especially prefer readings with a lack of the "gravitas" I would expect, in this music. But Zinman's approach, for all its pedantry and "ornamentation", does have a sense of "punch": it's not just slick and fast.
That said, I still go for Karajan, Toscanini, Klemperer, and now Vänskä, for my favourite performances of "the old Ludwig van". ;)
Quote from: Renfield on August 29, 2007, 09:10:45 AM
That said, I still go for Karajan, Toscanini, Klemperer, and now Vänskä, for my favourite performances of "the old Ludwig van". ;)
Er, I'm sorry. Vanska for an 'old skool' interpretation of Beethoven? Have you heard his recent Ninth Symphony? I'd call it many things (bafflingly popular, for one), but 'big band' it most certainly ain't. ???
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 12:30:27 PM
Er, I'm sorry. Vanska for an 'old skool' interpretation of Beethoven? Have you heard his recent Ninth Symphony? I'd call it many things (bafflingly popular, for one), but 'big band' it most certainly ain't. ???
Haha, no; indeed, old school he isn't! There was a lapse of continuity between my point (i.e. Zinman's quality as a Beethoven interpreter), and the subsequent semi-relevant note (i.e. the Beethoven interpreters I generally "go for", by name).
In fact Toscanini wasn't "old school", either: not in the same way as Klemperer was. And Vänskä might not be "old school", but his Beethoven is more abstract than it is HIP, in my view...
Did anyone get a copy of this? I placed an order with Amazon pretty much the same day as the OP and they keep pushing back my ship date, it is now April 2008
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 05, 2007, 07:03:54 AM
Did anyone get a copy of this? I placed an order with Amazon pretty much the same day as the OP and they keep pushing back my ship date, it is now April 2008
I placed an order a few months ago on Amazon US and got mine in about a week. I think they realize $28 for 60 CDs is a ludicrous price. Now you can't even get it.
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 05, 2007, 07:03:54 AM
Did anyone get a copy of this? I placed an order with Amazon pretty much the same day as the OP and they keep pushing back my ship date, it is now April 2008
I got it 8 days after placing my order (Aug. 28). Another poster that I told about it ordered it later that same day and he never did get it, finally canceling his order a couple weeks ago. Looks like I made it just under the wire... :)
8)
I am thinking I may let it run through April. What do you all think of the set?
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 05, 2007, 07:03:54 AM
Did anyone get a copy of this? I placed an order with Amazon pretty much the same day as the OP and they keep pushing back my ship date, it is now April 2008
Got mine in under a week. :)
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 05, 2007, 08:11:08 AM
I am thinking I may let it run through April. What do you all think of the set?
Certainly there is enough well-played music in there to warrant twice the price. There were actually only a few discs that I wanted (because I didn't already have them), like the Rosen Late Sonatas, and the Bylsma/Immerseel cello sonatas. Those are, like, 4 or 5 disks, and they would have cost me $25 EACH on Amazon Marketplace, used. I already had all the Zinman disks. The rest are generally good performances that supplement my collection.
My thoughts now are the same as before I bought: for $27, how can I go wrong? :)
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