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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => The Polling Station => Topic started by: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 09:55:01 AM

Title: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 09:55:01 AM
Have at it! ;D

Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2022, 10:02:00 AM
I think you're going to need more specific here, Andrei.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Brahmsian on January 07, 2022, 10:04:02 AM
Eckhart-Gramatte - Canada
Villa-Lobos - Brazil
Revueltas - Mexico
Gubaiduilina - Asian part of Russia
Estacio - Canada
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2022, 10:08:20 AM
Alright, since Ray chimed in, I think I have a better understanding of what is meant by non-European (incl. Russians), so here are my picks:

Villa-Lobos (Brazil)
Ginastera (Argentina)
Revueltas (Mexico)
Chávez (Mexico)
Takemitsu (Japan)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 10:09:20 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2022, 10:08:20 AM
Alright, since Ray chimed in, I think I have a better understanding of what is meant by non-European (incl. Russians), so here are my picks:

Villa-Lobos
Ginastera
Revueltas
Chávez
Takemitsu

You got the idea alright, John.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: ritter on January 07, 2022, 10:10:04 AM
Juan José Castro (Argentina)
Alberto Ginastera (Argentina)
Antônio Carlos Gomes (Brazil)
Heitor Villa-Lobos (Brazil)
Carlos Chávez (Mexico)

Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: amw on January 07, 2022, 11:29:31 AM
Honestly, never thought about this much before. Provisional "country favourites" might include:
Alberto Ginastera (Argentina)
Liza Lim (Australia)
José Antônio de Almeida Prado (Brazil)
Chiyoko Szlavnics (Canada)
Jo Kondo (Japan)
Unsuk Chin (Korea*)
Julio Estrada (Mexico)
Denis Smalley (New Zealand)
Charles Uzor (Nigeria)
Samir Odeh-Tamimi (Palestine*)
José Maceda (Philippines)
Zeynep Gedizlioğlu (Turkey)

...but a top 5 would probably double up on Canadian composers: Ginastera, Lim, Kondo, Szlavnics and Claude Vivier. Linda Catlin Smith (also Canada) would be the next runner-up.

If you exclude the Americas altogether it becomes more interesting.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Brian on January 07, 2022, 11:48:59 AM
To make this deliberately harder, I'm going to count Samuel Coleridge-Taylor as European and count 100% European ancestry people in non-European countries (e.g. Mignone, Piazzolla, Ginastera, Sculthorpe) as being European as well. And I'll make my fellow Turks European.

This is not to make a statement or critique others, just to set myself an extra hard challenge and bend my brain around a bit. ;D

1. Qigang Chen
2. Agustín Barrios Mangoré (I think; biographies online are spotty, but one says Guarani was his native language rather than Spanish)
3. Carlos Chávez
4. Elena Kats-Chernin (Uzbek-Australian-Jewish)
5. Reza Vali

Additionally a number of Japanese composers have left good impressions, including Komei Abe, Toru Takemitsu, and Hiroshi Ohguri.

Borderline cases excluded to avoid controversy:
Gabriela Lena Frank (half Eastern European, half Peruvian-Chinese, but also American)
Avner Dorman (Israeli, now employed by a USA music school)
Thomas Oboe Lee (fully Chinese, longtime USA resident)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 12:00:50 PM
My list

Ernesto Lecuona
Agustin Barrios
Heitor Villa-Lobos
Ernesto Nazareth
Carlos Guastavino


Honorable mentions: Juventino Rosas, Enrique Oswald, Alberto Williams
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: The new erato on January 07, 2022, 12:52:45 PM
Reynaldo Hahn was born in Venezuela....
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 01:00:28 PM
Quote from: The new erato on January 07, 2022, 12:52:45 PM
Reynaldo Hahn was born in Venezuela....

...and spent most of his life and his whole career in France. Nope, doesn't qualify, sorry.  ;D
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 07, 2022, 05:06:20 PM
Villa-Lobos
Revueltas
Ginastera
Yoshimatsu
Saygun
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: The new erato on January 07, 2022, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 07, 2022, 01:00:28 PM
...and spent most of his life and his whole career in France. Nope, doesn't qualify, sorry.  ;D

Ok, so if country of birth don"t matter, then Paul Ben-Ham.

Villa-Lobos and Ginastera as well. Carl Vine.

Would Ahmet Saygun be admissible (ie are you a fan of the Turks  ;)  )?

Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: SimonNZ on January 07, 2022, 11:59:48 PM
Quote from: amw on January 07, 2022, 11:29:31 AM

Denis Smalley (New Zealand)


Interesting. I was unaware of this composer.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: springrite on January 08, 2022, 04:20:45 AM
Gubaidulina
Takemitsu
Isang Kim
Revueltas
Tan Dun

(I also considered Sorabji, Chen Yi (and her husband Zhou Long) and Ginastera)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Maestro267 on January 08, 2022, 04:42:12 AM
Alberto Ginastera (Argentina)
Heitor Villa-Lobos (Brazil)
Toru Takemitsu (Japan)
Carlos Chavez (Mexico)
Brett Dean (Australia)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2022, 05:02:44 AM
Quote from: The new erato on January 07, 2022, 10:17:48 PM
Ok, so if country of birth don"t matter, then Paul Ben-Ham.

Born and raised in Europe, fully formed there as a composer and conductor... I'd rather let you have Hahn than Ben-Haim. ;D

Quote
Would Ahmet Saygun be admissible (ie are you a fan of the Turks  ;)  )?

I have no problem whatsoever with the Turks, why would you ask that?

And yes, Saygun is admissible, given that most of the Turkish territory lies in Asia.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2022, 06:03:38 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 08, 2022, 05:02:44 AM
Born and raised in Europe, fully formed there as a composer and conductor... I'd rather let you have Hahn than Ben-Haim. ;D

I have no problem whatsoever with the Turks, why would you ask that?

And yes, Saygun is admissible, given that most of the Turkish territory lies in Asia.
Surely he was jokingly referring to the political debate of whether Turkey belongs in Europe. Saygun is from Izmir, which makes him officially Asian.  :)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2022, 06:40:04 AM
Quote from: Brian on January 08, 2022, 06:03:38 AM
Surely he was jokingly referring to the political debate of whether Turkey belongs in Europe.

Geographically speaking, Turkey is an Asian country, most of its territory is in fact called Asia Minor. Politically though I've never seen it refered as such; it's considered as belonging to Europe. They even tried to join the EU until a few years ago but I don't know if they still want it.

QuoteSaygun is from Izmir, which makes him officially Asian.  :)

Exactly.  :)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: The new erato on January 08, 2022, 08:09:22 AM
OK, then I guess Sculthorpe would be my 5th.

I have little experience with Japanes/Korean composers.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: kyjo on January 08, 2022, 10:06:55 AM
Ginastera (Argentina)
Guarnieri (Brazil, since everyone else is -understandably - choosing V-L)
Lilburn (New Zealand)
Saygun (Turkey)
Sculthorpe (Australia)

Bonus: Yoshimatsu (Japan)

I wanted to include Ben-Haim (Israel), but he spent the first 36 years of his life in Germany.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: kyjo on January 08, 2022, 10:07:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2022, 10:08:20 AM
Alright, since Ray chimed in, I think I have a better understanding of what is meant by non-European (incl. Russians), so here are my picks:

Villa-Lobos (Brazil)
Ginastera (Argentina)
Revueltas (Mexico)
Chávez (Mexico)
Takemitsu (Japan)

No Sculthorpe, John? ;)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: kyjo on January 08, 2022, 10:07:46 AM
No Sculthorpe, John? ;)

Nope. :)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2022, 11:21:36 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 08, 2022, 06:40:04 AM
Geographically speaking, Turkey is an Asian country, most of its territory is in fact called Asia Minor. Politically though I've never seen it refered as such; it's considered as belonging to Europe. They even tried to join the EU until a few years ago but I don't know if they still want it.
My mother is from Istanbul, I know all about it.  :)

(The Asian side!)
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: MusicTurner on January 08, 2022, 11:39:01 AM
Quote from: Brian on January 08, 2022, 11:21:36 AM
My mother is from Istanbul, I know all about it.  :)

(The Asian side!)

A very nice & extremely diverse city to visit. There's massive EU opposition to Turkey joining these days too however, especially with Erdogan in charge. We're probably talking this for at least the next 2 decades as well.
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 08, 2022, 04:11:51 PM
Definitely another list is mandatory:

Akira Ifukube
Isang Yun
Carlos Chávez
Qigang Chen
Carlos Santoro
Title: Re: Top 5 Non-European, Non-USA Composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 09, 2022, 03:28:37 AM
Lilburn
Hayasaka
Moroi
Yoshimatsu
Malcolm Williamson (Australian)

If not Williamson, Chavez.