They are not composers that you hate or try to dismiss or criticise. I mean the composers who, up to this moment, you can classify and live without the remorse of losing much music of your interests or close tastes if you forced to pick five significant
Takemitsu (or Nono)
Cristóbal Halffter
Schütz Cage
Purcell
M. Haydn (or Telemann Kagel)
Just intended for fun. Don't be shy, tell yours, please!
Stockhausen
Boulez
Glass
Berg
Nielsen
Boulez
Stockhausen
Gottschalk
Richard Strauss (sorry!) with the exception of a few works
Webern.
Honourable mentions: Liszt, Chopin.
Anyone featured in 'New Year's Day Concert from Vienna'.
Well, here goes:
Shostakovich
Chopin
Vaughan Williams
Sibelius
Dvořák
And a long list of honourable mentions: Mendelssohn, Smetana, Sauguet, Myaskovsky, Delius, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, etc., etc.)...
I had thought of including Havergal Brian, but one cannot really call him "important", so he doesn't qualify.... >:D
Quote from: LKB on January 08, 2022, 06:46:22 PM
Stockhausen
Boulez
Glass
Berg
Nielsen
Which Glass? Louis Glass?
Which Berg? Natanael or Gunnar?
Alle well represented in CD.
:)
ritter managed to mention at least 4 firm favorites. I'm happy there's such a wide world out there. That's part of the fascination. Most composers of any note have written even a tiny something i like or appreciate.
Quote from: The new erato on January 09, 2022, 01:05:00 AM
... I'm happy there's such a wide world out there. That's part of the fascination. Most composers of any note have written even a tiny something i like or appreciate.
Exactly.
And as to the bolded text, absolutely true. For instance, my intense aversion to the music if
Shostakovich doesn't preclude an admiration for the
24 Preludes and Fugues, op. 87.
Regards,
Bruckner
Wagner
Schoenberg
Berg
Webern
It's not that I could easily live without --- I do live without. :laugh:
Where to begin. I think most of us - depending upon our individual taste - could mention hundreds of composers who would fit your description.
For me it would be:
Almost all romantic composers, eg. Liszt, Bruckner
All late-romantic composers, eg. Mahler, R. Strauss
Most opera-composers, eg. Wagner, Puccini
Easiest picks among famous and popular composers for me (although I do have recordings of most of them and occasionally listen to them, not sure if I have any Massenet, except as encore or so) would probably be Italian and French composers of the 19th century. I saw "L'elisir d'amore" on stage and it is a very good comic opera but I don't think I listened more than twice to my recording of it and once was around that visit to the opera.
Donizetti
Bellini
Gounod
Massenet
Lalo
Quote from: The new erato on January 09, 2022, 01:05:00 AM
Which Glass? Louis Glass?
Which Berg? Natanael or Gunnar?
Alle well represented in CD.
:)
ritter managed to mention at least 4 firm favorites. I'm happy there's such a wide world out there. That's part of the fascination. Most composers of any note have written even a tiny something i like or appreciate.
Philip Glass
Alban Berg
Quote from: LKB on January 09, 2022, 02:54:40 AM
Philip Glass
Alban Berg
It really couldn't be otherwise. Some tongue-in-cheek on my part, sorry about that.
Quote from: ritter on January 09, 2022, 01:37:09 AM
Exactly.
And as to the bolded text, absolutely true. For instance, my intense aversion to the music if Shostakovich doesn't preclude an admiration for the 24 Preludes and Fugues, op. 87.
Regards,
Thank you. It's not even a tiny something I believe. ;)
Quote from: Jo498 on January 09, 2022, 02:32:52 AM
Easiest picks among famous and popular composers for me (although I do have recordings of most of them and occasionally listen to them, not sure if I have any Massenet, except as encore or so) would probably be Italian and French composers of the 19th century. I saw "L'elisir d'amore" on stage and it is a very good comic opera but I don't think I listened more than twice to my recording of it and once was around that visit to the opera.
Donizetti
Bellini
Gounod
Massenet
Lalo
I could live without these as well!
In opera it would be easy for me to add more but these are often not that famous nowadays, except for (some) opera buffs.
French and German comic opera, such as Auber, Boieldieu, Lortzing, Flotow. ~1900 Verismo by Leoncavallo, Mascagni, Cilea, d'Albert. I just can rarely be bothered with opera on records except for some favorites, although I used to admire and like at least some Wagner, Verdi, Puccini and of course Mozart and I have a lot (too much) opera on my shelves.
Piano guy*
Powdered wig guy*
Opera guy*
Choral guy*
Godowsky
*or girl, person, or other nonspecific or specific self-designation
That probably covers it.
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 09, 2022, 04:03:59 AM
Piano guy*
Powdered wig guy*
Opera guy*
Choral guy*
Godowsky
*or girl, person, or other nonspecific or specific self-designation
That probably covers it.
I infer from the above that you are not averse to Lieder guys, such as Hugo Wolf or Carl Loewe. :laugh:
With the exception of Beethoven, I could live without any five composers.
Quote from: Florestan on January 09, 2022, 04:21:31 AM
I infer from the above that you are not averse to Lieder guys, such as Hugo Wolf or Carl Loewe. :laugh:
You are a star, thank you. Corrected to incorporate your timely reminder.
Piano guy*
Powdered wig guy*
Opera guy*
Choral guy*
Lieder guy*
General song-cycle guy*
Godowsky. Always Godowsky.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 09, 2022, 12:41:31 AM
Boulez
Stockhausen
Gottschalk
Richard Strauss (sorry!) with the exception of a few works
Webern.
Honourable mentions: Liszt, Chopin.
Anyone featured in 'New Year's Day Concert from Vienna'.
Augh! Oh, noooo! :'(
Will have to do some thinking here of my list.
PD
Quote from: vandermolen on January 09, 2022, 12:41:31 AM
Boulez
Stockhausen
Gottschalk
Richard Strauss (sorry!) with the exception of a few works
Webern.
Honourable mentions: Liszt, Chopin.
Anyone featured in 'New Year's Day Concert from Vienna'.
I could not consider
Gottschalk an important composer, FWIW I can certainly live without him, too.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 07:45:07 AM
I could not consider Gottschalk an important composer, FWIW I can certainly live without him, too.
In my college days, there was an opportunity to hear a visiting professional piano recital whose program was completely comprised of Gottschalk. Suffice to say, I enjoyed my time at the local Public House instead. ;)
VS
Quote from: VonStupp on January 09, 2022, 07:49:15 AM
In my college days, there was an opportunity to hear a visiting professional piano recital whose program was completely comprised of Gottschalk. Suffice to say, I enjoyed my time at the local Public House instead. ;)
VS
You chose wisely.
Separately, I love
Nielsen (and couldn't live without his music) but I'd find it difficult to make the case of his
importance.
While some of the names I see here sadden me (honestly, Chopin - Wagner - Schoenberg - Berg - Webern - Bruckner, every one of whom I love unreservedly?), I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." Which I think does a disservice to good film music. But I lie, Nikolai Kapustin is almost as bad, but again, not in the least important.
My problem is that if the composer is important, I can't live without them. Well, maybe Richard Strauss, a little of whom goes a long way. There are any number of Strauss works I could cheerfully live without, such as almost all of Capriccio except the opening string sextet and final aria. And both Stockhausen and Boulez are extremely uneven, neither having maintained in their older years the brilliant achievements of their youth.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
While some of the names I see here sadden me (honestly, Chopin - Wagner - Schoenberg - Berg - Webern - Bruckner, every one of whom I love unreservedly?), I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." But I lie, Nikolai Kapustin is almost as bad, but again, not in the least important.
My problem is that if the composer is important, I can't live without them. Well, maybe Richard Strauss, a little of whom goes a long way. There are any number of Strauss works I could cheerfully live without, such as almost all of Capriccio except the opening string sextet and final aria. And both Stockhausen and Boulez are extremely uneven, neither having maintained in their older years the brilliant achievements of their youth.
FWIW,
Poco sfz, the only
Bax piece I regularly go back to is his
Elegiac Trio:
https://www.youtube.com/v/g32X2C1S8o0
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 08:05:15 AM
You chose wisely.
Separately, I love Nielsen (and couldn't live without his music) but I'd find it difficult to make the case of his importance.
I would. I think him highly innovative in some ways (for example, the way he uses instruments as
characters in works like the 4th and 5th symphonies or the two wind concertos, and not only as abstract members of the ensemble, and his often quirky but satisfying forms. Is his "unimportance" related to the fact he's Scandinavian, and not part of the standard Germanic lineage?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 08:11:52 AM
FWIW, Poco sfz, the only Bax piece I regularly go back to is his Elegiac Trio:
https://www.youtube.com/v/g32X2C1S8o0
Thank you, Karl. I am always willing to torture myself further.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:12:13 AM
I would. I think him highly innovative in some ways (for example, the way he uses instruments as characters in works like the 4th and 5th symphonies or the two wind concertos, and not only as abstract members of the ensemble, and his often quirky but satisfying forms. Is his "unimportance" related to the fact he's Scandinavian, and not part of the standard Germanic lineage?
Good points, thanks, I don't
think I meant to cast him into a Svandinavian ghetto; I guess I think too seldom about the matter of
importance per se.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:13:12 AM
Thank you, Karl. I am always willing to torture myself further.
I hope the pains here are not too acute!
There are some very interesting definitions of "important" active in this thread. I'm traveling, will try to contribute a little bit later.
I like a couple of crowd pleasing pops pieces by Bax (Tintagel and a few piano miniatures) but the symphonies and most of the tone poems leave me completely perplexed and uninterested. Will try the video Karl posted tomorrow.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 08:15:13 AM
I hope the pains here are not too acute!
Fortunately, only 9 minutes. But the instrumental combination does not appeal to me greatly even in Debussy.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two.
I like Bax but find a little goes a long way, which I guess is another way of saying I find him an occasionally interesting minor composer.
My major deaf spot is for a lot of the standard popular romantics - Chopin, Liszt, Bizet, Tchaikovsky, Berlioz, Rachmaninoff, Smetana. I don't actively dislike their music, and when it is forced on me, I usually like it well enough. It's just not something I ever want to go back to repeatedly.
I try to listen to every composer at least once, so I'm not sure there's anyone specific I could "live without".
Can't say Bax has ever struck me as particularly offensive, although I've never been extremely interested in him either. Based on the words of sfz's friend, I'm tempted to reevaluate all the music of his that I have (symphonies, a few tone poems, a big piece for piano and orchestra, piano sonatas, piano quintet, string quartets, some other chamber music odds and ends) and see if he really is the worst composer ever to have lived.
It seems pretty safe to say that outside of Britain and some anglophile bubbles, Bax is not considered important. Maybe nice to have, but this is not the same.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 09, 2022, 08:37:38 AM
I like Bax but find a little goes a long way, which I guess is another way of saying I find him an occasionally interesting minor composer.
My major deaf spot is for a lot of the standard popular romantics - Chopin, Liszt, Bizet, Tchaikovsky, Berlioz, Rachmaninoff, Smetana. I don't actively dislike their music, and when it is forced on me, I usually like it well enough. It's just not something I ever want to go back to repeatedly.
I wouldn't defend all those names equally. But I treasure Chopin and Berlioz above almost all 19th-century composers, even though Berlioz is highly uneven too. Works like the Chopin Ballades and Etudes, and much else besides, and the Love Scene and Queen Mab Scherzo from Berlioz's Romeo or the 4th Act from Les Troyens, are in my opinon among the wonders of the musical world.
Quote from: amw on January 09, 2022, 08:41:03 AM
I try to listen to every composer at least once, so I'm not sure there's anyone specific I could "live without".
Can't say Bax has ever struck me as particularly offensive, although I've never been extremely interested in him either. Based on the words of sfz's friend, I'm tempted to reevaluate all the music of his that I have (symphonies, a few tone poems, a big piece for piano and orchestra, piano sonatas, piano quintet, string quartets, some other chamber music odds and ends) and see if he really is the worst composer ever to have lived.
I listened to some of the "big piece for piano and orchestra" based on the recommendation from a certain interesting but not always reliable critic, and I could get through only a third of it. I have only two CDs of Bax's music, and I greatly prefer my Bach in the singular rather then Bax in the plural.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
While some of the names I see here sadden me (honestly, Chopin - Wagner - Schoenberg - Berg - Webern - Bruckner, every one of whom I love unreservedly?), I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." Which I think does a disservice to good film music. But I lie, Nikolai Kapustin is almost as bad, but again, not in the least important.
My problem is that if the composer is important, I can't live without them. Well, maybe Richard Strauss, a little of whom goes a long way. There are any number of Strauss works I could cheerfully live without, such as almost all of Capriccio except the opening string sextet and final aria. And both Stockhausen and Boulez are extremely uneven, neither having maintained in their older years the brilliant achievements of their youth.
Personally I couldn't live without Bax's music ;D
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 07:45:07 AM
I could not consider Gottschalk an important composer, FWIW I can certainly live without him, too.
Yes, you're right
Karl, I should have paid more attention to the thread title - I'll substitute Liszt.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 09, 2022, 11:23:24 AM
y
Yes, you're right Karl, I should have paid more attention to the thread title - I'll substitute Liszt.
Who
is important, but it pains me slightly that you could do without him
https://www.youtube.com/v/R7jB5S3FZWI
Off the top of my head:
Debussy
Handel
Reich
Ligeti
At the point of arriving at the fifth it became a difficult question. I didn't want to supplement Reich with Glass and have done with it, it seemed too lazy. I had considered putting Wagner there, but Wagner, even if it's quite true that I can live and indeed have been living quite successfully without recourse to his music for many years, was important to me personally for a time, so it seems a disingenuous choice. But by that logic, Ligeti shouldn't be on the list. My tendency to overthink has foiled me once again!
Quote from: Crudblud on January 09, 2022, 12:50:55 PM
Off the top of my head:
Debussy
Handel
Reich
Ligeti
At the point of arriving at the fifth it became a difficult question. I didn't want to supplement Reich with Glass and have done with it, it seemed too lazy. I had considered putting Wagner there, but Wagner, even if it's quite true that I can live and indeed have been living quite successfully without recourse to his music for many years, was important to me personally for a time, so it seems a disingenuous choice. But by that logic, Ligeti shouldn't be on the list. My tendency to overthink has foiled me once again!
(* chortle *)I've got to include
Handel in my list, because his name didn't even arise in my mind until reading your list:
With the understanding that we might in some cases drop the adverb
easily, my five are:
Handel
Schubert
Mendelssohn
Wagner
Wolf
Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you that your answers have given me enormous pleasure for reading them. I feel your answers sincere, and a bit "implacable" as well! ;D :o
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 12:58:41 PM
(* chortle *)
I've got to include Handel in my list, because his name didn't even arise in my mind until reading your list:
With the understanding that we might in some cases drop the adverb easily, my five are:
Handel
Schubert
Mendelssohn
Wagner
Wolf
Oh, Schubert might be the one! The fifth one, that is. I guess it's telling that, much like your Handelian revelation, Schubert hadn't even occurred to me until you mentioned him.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 09, 2022, 12:58:41 PM
Schubert
You're dead to me, Henning. 8)
See why threads like this are a bad idea
My list would be composers for whom I've never really engaged seriously with the bulk of their output, even if I have much of it sitting there on my music server and even if I enjoy a few of their works:
Handel: all those oratorios and operas. I like his instrumental music well enough, but that's only a tiny bit of his output.
Verdi (I like the Requiem...)
Similarly any primarily opera composer (except for Janacek, who I adore)
Elliot Carter
Delius
Quote from: Daverz on January 09, 2022, 02:40:44 PM
You're dead to me, Henning. 8)
Mind you,
Schubert is one of the cases where
easily is not at all a good adverb. As with you, the
Handel keyboard suites mean much more to me than the oratorios; the operas are nowhere for me.
Delius would be an easy drop for me, but I cannot believe he is important, either 8)
Quote from: ritter on January 09, 2022, 01:03:03 AM
Well, here goes:
Shostakovich
Chopin
Vaughan Williams
Sibelius
Dvořák
And a long list of honourable mentions: Mendelssohn, Smetana, Sauguet, Myaskovsky, Delius, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, etc., etc.)...
I had thought of including Havergal Brian, but one cannot really call him "important", so he doesn't qualify.... >:D
That looks more like an excellent list of favorites. And what did poor, unassuming Sauguet do?
Quote from: Daverz on January 09, 2022, 03:44:01 PM
That looks more like an excellent list of favorites. And what did poor, unassuming Sauguet do?
+1 And I do support the Sauguet. Not indispensable at all, actually. His Symphony No. 1 on Naxos has qualities and failures, though!
Ah, Delius. Forgot about him. I always quip that he's so dull, orchestras fall asleep playing him.
Handel is an interesting case. Oftentimes he is deadly dull, but when he catches fire look out! Try the chorus "The People Shall Hear" from "Israel in Egypt" if you don't believe me. Or almost all of the opera "Orlando."
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:49:48 AM
I listened to some of the "big piece for piano and orchestra" based on the recommendation from a certain interesting but not always reliable critic, and I could get through only a third of it. I have only two CDs of Bax's music, and I greatly prefer my Bach in the singular rather then Bax in the plural.
It has to be the Ashley Wass recording.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/817ASMYmJzL._SS500_PIPJStripe-Robin-Large-V2,TopLeft,0,0_.jpg)
He's brilliant with in this music. Also the
Symphonic Variations.
I had the Chandos recording of Winter Legends for decades, and could never make it through that one.
I have the Chandos recording. I've apparently listened to it twice, but since the last time was at 4 AM that's presumably because it was part of a playlist of music to help me get to sleep and I'm unlikely to have been awake for the experience.
(This is not necessarily a reflection on the quality of the music; that playlist also has a lot of Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Debussy et al.)
No one is loser here nor in other places. I intented to create this thread without offenses or dismissing composers. I've seen many composers named that have shocked me, and not for that I consider the ones I picked losers or mediocre. Just that I don't have any particular in their music, independently of greatness or not.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 09, 2022, 11:20:36 AM
Personally I couldn't live without Bax's music ;D
I love Bax, but would consider him a "stinky cheese" composer.
Of the "important" British composers who supposedly ushered in the British musical renaissance, I could never muster any enthusiasm for the music of Parry or Stanford.
Schubert
Schumann
Brahms
Bruckner
Weber
So much for Austro-German music of the 19th century.
Quote from: Daverz on January 09, 2022, 05:24:49 PM.
Of the "important" British composers who supposedly ushered in the British musical renaissance, I could never muster any enthusiasm for the music of Parry or Stanford.
Same here, but the only British composer of the pre-Elgar era I would call important is Sullivan.
I love these lists more and more :)
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 09, 2022, 02:22:16 AM
Where to begin. I think most of us - depending upon our individual taste - could mention hundreds of composers who would fit your description.
The most sensible answer. I could go for days listing composers I'd never listen to.
More interesting I think is the demographics of a particular listening group, friends or discussion board and where the discourse goes. In real life too with my cohort we all sort of gravitate towards similar music; maybe some of it born out a cordial atmosphere but I like to think we know each other well enough that isn't always the case, the conversation has certainly turned to the passionate on several occasions. It generally does sway towards some kind of "melding of minds" though.
One thing I find interesting is seeing the number of pages composer threads have. With no disrespect to Stockhausen (I like reading about his music but I could do without having to hear more than 90% of it) it blows my mind that there is 72 pages on him, I would have thought that kind of activity would be reserved for far avant-garde music boards. Or that the Holmboe thread is always at the top of page, I bought the Holmboe Kontra Qt String Quartet box shortly after it was boxed up but I don't think I've ever said "I can't wait to play Holmboe's String Quartet No. 6!" Even the Schoenberg Wind Quintet which I was under working knowledge that I only had a single performance (unusual for me if I like a piece) I've quite often felt in the mood to actively seek out.
So the message board as a whole is quite tilted towards British music. If someone were to break into my house and steal all my British music, I wouldn't bat an eyelash as long as they left the RVW (264 pages on him though, more than doubling Beethoven!). But if they were to nab my 20+ years of carefully collected Chopin Nocturnes I'd be pretty depressed.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
While some of the names I see here sadden me (honestly, Chopin - Wagner - Schoenberg - Berg - Webern - Bruckner, every one of whom I love unreservedly?), I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." Which I think does a disservice to good film music. But I lie, Nikolai Kapustin is almost as bad, but again, not in the least important.
My problem is that if the composer is important, I can't live without them. Well, maybe Richard Strauss, a little of whom goes a long way. There are any number of Strauss works I could cheerfully live without, such as almost all of Capriccio except the opening string sextet and final aria. And both Stockhausen and Boulez are extremely uneven, neither having maintained in their older years the brilliant achievements of their youth.
Ouch. That one hurt :(
Quote from: ritter on January 09, 2022, 01:03:03 AM
Vaughan Williams
Sibelius
Dvořák
Ouch!!! :D
At the moment, I don't really feel compelled to make a list. It's more fun (and sometimes slightly infuriating ;)) to read other members'!
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." Which I think does a disservice to good film music.
Sheesh, man, what did Bax ever do to you?
Ha. Some of the claimed 'important' composers... not so much.
I'll fairly confidently go with
Stockhausen
Glass
Liszt
Beyond that... there's probably a couple of opera-centred composers that I wouldn't really miss. Wagner? I dunno. I don't feel that I necessarily know Wagner well enough to be certain that he does nothing for me. I seem to have got through life with not much Tchaikovsky for such a high-profile composer, and yet I do kind of want to try out a lot more Tchaikovsky beyond the ballets, and the ballets have some darn catchy tunes.
I don't have much time for Satie, so he might be a better one to thrown on the bonfire. Or John Cage just so that we don't have to ever hear about 4'33'' again.
Prompted by the ongoing discussion, I had a maiden listen to this:
(https://img.discogs.com/AJUj_VcBJ_SC4kV8j4qMgvRQyto=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7062061-1432821071-1429.jpeg.jpg)
Atmospheric, haunting, magical music in colorful, lush orchestration --- what's not to like, I wonder? In fact, I think I might have just made a major discovery.
Touchy, aren't some of us now? ;D
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:05:56 AM
While some of the names I see here sadden me (honestly, Chopin - Wagner - Schoenberg - Berg - Webern - Bruckner, every one of whom I love unreservedly?), I could easily live without Havergal Brian and Arnold Bax. Problem is, neither of these losers is in any way important, especially Arnold Bax who is easily the worst of the two. When I wrote to a friend saying, "Is Arnold Bax the worst composer ever to have lived? I loathe every measure of his I've ever heard," my friend wrote back, "I have tried, given up on, tried again, and given up for good, anything by Bax. It is, at best, mediocre film music." Which I think does a disservice to good film music. But I lie, Nikolai Kapustin is almost as bad, but again, not in the least important.
My problem is that if the composer is important, I can't live without them. Well, maybe Richard Strauss, a little of whom goes a long way. There are any number of Strauss works I could cheerfully live without, such as almost all of Capriccio except the opening string sextet and final aria. And both Stockhausen and Boulez are extremely uneven, neither having maintained in their older years the brilliant achievements of their youth.
I concur with your feelings about Bax and Havergal Brian, although I probably wouldn't have put it as harshly as you did. And, yes, I dislike Kapustin, too. If I want to listen to jazz, I'll listen to it. Ellington eats Kapustin for breakfast.
Anyway, I'm not sure if I've weighed in here with my list, but since Bax, Brian and Kapustin are out of the way thanks to the axe swung from Sforzando, I think I'll offer some picks of my own. :) Let's see...I absolutely would die a happy man if I never heard another note from Nørgård, Xenakis, almost any Baroque Era composer, Verdi, Pettersson, Satie, Pfitzner, Bacewicz and most British composers (w/ the exception of Vaughan Williams, Britten, Elgar, Walton and Arnold).
Quote from: Florestan on January 09, 2022, 08:13:22 PM
Atmospheric, haunting, magical music in colorful, lush orchestration.
Sounds like Wagner, whom I'd far sooner recommend to you.
Quote from: Crudblud on January 09, 2022, 12:50:55 PM
Off the top of my head:
Debussy
Ligeti
I've got to say...this stings. It really does. Ligeti I can imagine not being for everyone, but Debussy is my favorite composer above them all. Oh well, we're all different. I respect these choices.
The five most recorded composers by Maria Callas.
So I never again have to risk hearing Maria fucking Callas.
I haven't participated here. Partly it makes me sad to see all the really great music many find uninteresting, partly because I think that most of us would live great lives without any music at all since there are so many other wonderful things to enjoy in life that we would have found other interests if music in some way or other in some period of our lives hadn't by some accident started to interest us.
So on one level the answer is I wouldn't be without any of it. The joy of discovery is great and most composers have written something without which you would lose something if you couldn't have it. And I for one have discarded lots of music that in another circumstance or phase of life suddenly became interesting. Art is about personal growth.
On another level the answer is I could probably live quite a good life without all of it if I never had known about it.
The premise of the original question is flawed. A far more interesting question is "what collection of classical music (I disregard other genres here) would you be happy with?".
For me; if I had a couple of Ockeghem masses, a couple of Handel operas, a small collection of Bach cantatas, 2 opuses of Haydn quartets, a couple of Mozart piano concertos, the late Beethoven quartets, some Brahms chamber music, some Schubertl lieder, a couple of Shostakovich concertos, one symphony each by Nielsen, Sibelius and Pettersson, a couple of discs each with select works of Debussy and Ravel, I think I would have a varied collection that would satisfy me.
Everything else would be strictly superfluous. Perhaps less interesting, but I could live happily without the rest of it. The money and time saved could buy me quite a lot of happiness in other areas of life,
Quote from: Crudblud on January 09, 2022, 12:50:55 PM
Off the top of my head:
Debussy
Handel
Reich
Ligeti
At the point of arriving at the fifth it became a difficult question. I didn't want to supplement Reich with Glass and have done with it, it seemed too lazy. I had considered putting Wagner there, but Wagner, even if it's quite true that I can live and indeed have been living quite successfully without recourse to his music for many years, was important to me personally for a time, so it seems a disingenuous choice. But by that logic, Ligeti shouldn't be on the list. My tendency to overthink has foiled me once again!
How could I have been so blind? The fifth choice is obviously Shostakovich!
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 09, 2022, 08:21:52 PM
I've got to say...this stings. It really does. Ligeti I can imagine not being for everyone, but Debussy is my favorite composer above them all. Oh well, we're all different. I respect these choices.
It's all taste and temperament. It isn't so much that I don't enjoy Ligeti from time to time, more that I can't remember the last time I felt a need to listen to his music. I went through an obsessive period of listening to his music, but once that was over I never felt so impressed by it as I had at first, similar to what I wrote about Wagner. As for Debussy, I recognise his importance in music history and I do respect him as a composer, I just don't hear what everyone else seems to hear when I listen to it.
Quote from: Daverz on January 09, 2022, 05:24:49 PM
I love Bax, but would consider him a "stinky cheese" composer.
Of the "important" British composers who supposedly ushered in the British musical renaissance, I could never muster any enthusiasm for the music of Parry or Stanford.
I listen to very little Stanford or Parry, but like Stanford's 'Irish Symphony', Symphony No.5 and the Irish Rhapsody No.4. I think highly of Parry's 5th Symphony and especially the Symphonic Variations.
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 12:08:49 AM
A far more interesting question is "what collection of classical music (I disregard other genres here) would you be happy with?".
For me; if I had a couple of Ockeghem masses, a couple of Handel operas, a small collection of Bach cantatas, 2 opuses of Haydn quartets, a couple of Mozart piano concertos, the late Beethoven quartets, some Brahms chamber music, some Schubertl lieder, a couple of Shostakovich concertos, one symphony each by Nielsen, Sibelius and Pettersson, a couple of discs each with select works of Debussy and Ravel, I think I would have a varied collection that would satisfy me.
Everything else would be strictly superfluous. Perhaps less interesting, but I could live happily without the rest of it. The money and time saved could buy me quite a lot of happiness in other areas of life,
All that is of course very theoretical. You are not going to keep only a couple of Ockeghem masses, a couple of Handel operas, a small collection of Bach cantatas, 2 opuses of Haydn quartets, a couple of Mozart piano concertos, the late Beethoven quartets, some Brahms chamber music, some Schubertl lieder, a couple of Shostakovich concertos, one symphony each by Nielsen, Sibelius and Pettersson, a couple of discs each with select works of Debussy and Ravel, sell or donate all the rest of your library and live happily ever after. Or are you? ;D
Quote from: Florestan on January 10, 2022, 12:55:16 AM
All that is of course very theoretical. You are not going to keep only a couple of Ockeghem masses, a couple of Handel operas, a small collection of Bach cantatas, 2 opuses of Haydn quartets, a couple of Mozart piano concertos, the late Beethoven quartets, some Brahms chamber music, some Schubertl lieder, a couple of Shostakovich concertos, one symphony each by Nielsen, Sibelius and Pettersson, a couple of discs each with select works of Debussy and Ravel, sell or donate all the rest of your library and live happily ever after. Or are you? ;D
Not now. Particularly since nobody would want it, or it would collect insignificant amounts of money I don't need.
But I could live happily with it, if that was what I had. I feel your question was very hypothetical as well. Discovering that you don't like Sibelius to me has value. It's all about personal growth. Discovering dislikes as well as likes are both very valuable. It widens your horizon and perspective on life. That is what art is about, and that is why I feel the premise was deeply flawed. How could I know what I like, if I didn't know what I didn'tlike?
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 01:01:49 AM
Not now. Paricularly since nobody woud want it, or it would collect insignificant amounts of money I don't need.
But I could live happily with it, if that was what I had. I feel your question wa very hypothetical as well.
More like tongue-in-cheek. :D
QuoteDisconering that you don't like Sibelius to me has value.
You mistake me for someone else. I like Sibelius. ;)
QuoteIt's all about personal growth. Discovering dislikes as well as likes are both very valuable. It widens your horizon and perspective on life. That is what art is about.
Yes.
It wasn't about you, but a random example. I could just as well have written Beethoven. And I got the tongue in cheek, I just thought I would share my feelings about why I didn't participate. And why I think the original question starts with the wrong angle towards why we listen to music at all.
Why do we listen to the stuff? Isn't dislikes an important part of the jouney? And are they hewn in rock?
It doesn't mean I have problems with your poll. I just find it poses questions of more interest to me that I would like to raise, and that I therefore cannot answer it. Another instance of the value of a "dislike".
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 01:09:28 AM
It wasn't about you, but a random example.
Got it.
QuoteWhy do we lsiten to the stuff?
Because we are addicted? :laugh:
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 01:09:28 AM
Isn't dislikes an important part of the jouney? And are they hewn in rock?
Yes. No.
Addictions and habits are one aspect of it for sure. Not the worst thing to be addicted to for sure, but as most addictions it perhaps limits your enjoyment of other stuff, which was kind of the point of some parts of my original post.
But perhaps we should leave this discussion in this thread. I find it interesting to read dislikes even if I find it impossible to contribute, partly because I agree with your post no 75.
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 01:24:26 AM
Addictions and habits are one aspect of it for sure. Not the worst thing to be addicted to for sure, but as most addictions it perhaps limits your enjoyment of other stuff, which was kind of the point of some parts of my original post.
True, and it can interfere not only with enjoying other stuff but also with simply fulfilling one's life's duties... But I agree that it's a discussion which has no place in this thread.
Quote from: JBS on January 09, 2022, 05:56:56 PM
Same here, but the only British composer of the pre-Elgar era I would call important is Sullivan.
If one means "just before" with "pre-". Otherwise there are lots of important British composers (many of them maybe more important than any since and including Elgar) from Dunstable through Purcell.
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 12:08:49 AM
I haven't participated here. Partly it makes me sad to see all the really great music many find uninteresting, partly because I think that most of us would live great lives without any music at all since there are so many other wonderful things to enjoy in life that we would have found other interests if music in some way or other in some period of our lives hadn't by some accident started to interest us.
So on one level the answer is I wouldn't be without any of it. The joy of discovery is great and most composers have written something without which you would lose something if you couldn't have it. And I for one have discarded lots of music that in another circumstance or phase of life suddenly became interesting. Art is about personal growth.
On another level the answer is I could probably live quite a good life without all of it if I never had known about it.
The premise of the original question is flawed. A far more interesting question is "what collection of classical music (I disregard other genres here) would you be happy with?".
For me; if I had a couple of (... ....).
Everything else would be strictly superfluous. Perhaps less interesting, but I could live happily without the rest of it. The money and time saved could buy me quite a lot of happiness in other areas of life,
I agree with the points put forward.
I don't find it sad that people find certain composers uninteresting, because it is incredibly unlikely to have any impact on the availability of those composers' music for those who want to hear it.
I'm sad when certain foodstuffs I personally like disappear of the shelves because they aren't selling well enough. But much as I'm surprised when someone says they can live without Dvorak, I don't particularly fear that my own access to Dvorak will be compromised.
Quote from: kyjo on January 09, 2022, 07:55:35 PM
Ouch!!! :D
At the moment, I don't really feel compelled to make a list. It's more fun (and sometimes slightly infuriating ;)) to read other members'!
(* chortle *)
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 09, 2022, 08:19:51 PM
Sounds like Wagner, whom I'd far sooner recommend to you.
Or like a phrase of my late pal Bob Z: "A good wallow."
Quote from: Madiel on January 10, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
I don't find it sad that people find certain composers uninteresting, because it is incredibly unlikely to have any impact on the availability of those composers' music for those who want to hear it.
I'm sad when certain foodstuffs I personally like disappear of the shelves because they aren't selling well enough. But much as I'm surprised when someone says they can live without Dvorak, I don't particularly fear that my own access to Dvorak will be compromised.
Yeah. A few of my favorite composers have been nominated but I couldn't care less, I have nominated myself a few favorites of others, so we're even. :D
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 12:08:49 AM
For me; if I had a couple of Ockeghem masses, a couple of Handel operas, a small collection of Bach cantatas, 2 opuses of Haydn quartets, a couple of Mozart piano concertos, the late Beethoven quartets, some Brahms chamber music, some Schubertl lieder, a couple of Shostakovich concertos, one symphony each by Nielsen, Sibelius and Pettersson, a couple of discs each with select works of Debussy and Ravel, I think I would have a varied collection that would satisfy me.
It's not really a hypothetical. Most of us started out something like this in our collecting career. And did we stop collecting?
I try. Time and space as Einstein would postulate.
Beethoven
Liszt
Scarlatti
Francois Couperin
Palestrina
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 09, 2022, 08:18:19 PM
I concur with your feelings about Bax and Havergal Brian, although I probably wouldn't have put it as harshly as you did. And, yes, I dislike Kapustin, too. If I want to listen to jazz, I'll listen to it. Ellington eats Kapustin for breakfast.
Anyway, I'm not sure if I've weighed in here with my list, but since Bax, Brian and Kapustin are out of the way thanks to the axe swung from Sforzando, I think I'll offer some picks of my own. :) Let's see...I absolutely would die a happy man if I never heard another note from Nørgård, Xenakis, almost any Baroque Era composer, Verdi, Pettersson, Satie, Pfitzner, Bacewicz and most British composers (w/ the exception of Vaughan Williams, Britten, Elgar, Walton and Arnold).
I have to be a bit harsh. After all, my name is Sforzando, not Dolce. Not a great fan of Arnold, either. (I actually saw a performance of Pfitzner's Palestrina by the Royal Opera here in NY. At the time I thought, well I'm glad I experienced this, but I absolutely never want to hear any of it ever again.)
But I would hope you don't give up on Verdi or for that matter Bach. Verdi wrote reams of dull, conventional stuff in his early years; however, when he developed into the composer of Don Carlo, the Requiem, and Falstaff, I think he became one of the greats.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 10, 2022, 06:15:52 AM
I have to be a bit harsh. After all, my name is Sforzando, not Dolce. Not a great fan of Arnold, either. (I actually saw a performance of Pfitzner's Palestrina by the Royal Opera here in NY. At the time I thought, well I'm glad I experienced this, but I absolutely never want to hear any of it ever again.)
But I would hope you don't give up on Verdi or for that matter Bach. Verdi wrote reams of dull, conventional stuff in his early years; however, when he developed into the composer of Don Carlo, the Requiem, and Falstaff, I think he became one of the greats.
Yes, indeed. I'll definitely keep trying with Verdi. As for Bach, I think I could learn to like his music more if I didn't want to listen to another composer instead. ;) :P
Quote from: Madiel on January 10, 2022, 02:04:29 AM
I don't find it sad that people find certain composers uninteresting, because it is incredibly unlikely to have any impact on the availability of those composers' music for those who want to hear it.
But disliking Dvorak demonstrates a louche character. >:(
Quote from: kyjo on January 09, 2022, 07:59:06 PM
Sheesh, man, what did Bax ever do to you?
He wrote music.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 10, 2022, 06:59:49 AM
He wrote music.
I can think of far worse offenders than Bax in this respect.
Quote from: absolutelybaching on January 10, 2022, 02:01:17 AM
Composers I enjoy from time to time, but wouldn't worry too much if I was told I could never listen to them again:
- Alan Hovhaness (he died in June 2000, so I'm claiming he counts!)
- Jón Leifs
- Dmitry Bortnyansky
- Samuel Coleridge-Taylor
- Manuel de Falla
Honourable mention to, ahem, Franz Schubert. :)
I couldn't live without
Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
Quote from: Mandryka on January 10, 2022, 04:19:04 AM
Beethoven
Liszt
Scarlatti
Francois Couperin
Palestrina
Now that's a unique list.
I am a bit suprised about Liszt. I thought he would appeal to you quite a bit. He did after all write plenty of stuff that's not just flashy showpieces. (Of course he wrote a bunch of flashy showpieces too. But there's other stuff.)
Quote from: Mandryka on January 10, 2022, 04:19:04 AM
Beethoven
Liszt
Scarlatti
Francois Couperin
Palestrina
Quote from: JBS on January 10, 2022, 09:02:53 AM
Now that's a unique list.
I am a bit suprised about Liszt. I thought he would appeal to you quite a bit. He did after all write plenty of stuff that's not just flashy showpieces. (Of course he wrote a bunch of flashy showpieces too. But there's other stuff.)
I'm more surprised about Beethoven, whom I wouldn't want to be without.
Scarlatti's 555 sonatas are a mixed bag, and in the end I think I could live without them.
And as to Palestrina, Francois Couperin and Liszt they have done less than nothing for me, so here I am quite in accordance with Mandryka.
Quote from: Daverz on January 10, 2022, 06:55:42 AM
But disliking Dvorak demonstrates a louche character. >:(
;D
—————————————————
My list:
Boulez and
Stockhausen are obvious targets. But really, early Renaissance and Medieval composers are my own musical Oort Cloud, and they are too numerous to list. Okay, here's 3 of them:
Machaut,
Pérotin and
Dufay.
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 10, 2022, 09:48:42 AM
I'm more surprised about Beethoven, whom I wouldn't want to be without.
Scarlatti's 555 sonatas are a mixed bag, and in the end I think I could live without them.
And as to Palestrina, Francois Couperin and Liszt they have done less than nothing for me, so here I am quite in accordance with Mandryka.
Mandryka has said before that he's not very keen about LvB, so I wasn't surprised he put him on the list. I can understand putting Scarlatti and Couperin on the list--but how important are they in truth (as opposed to how well known they are)?
Quote from: hvbias on January 09, 2022, 06:50:20 PM
So the message board as a whole is quite tilted towards British music. If someone were to break into my house and steal all my British music, I wouldn't bat an eyelash as long as they left the RVW (264 pages on him though, more than doubling Beethoven!). But if they were to nab my 20+ years of carefully collected Chopin Nocturnes I'd be pretty depressed.
For real?
Quote from: JBS on January 10, 2022, 01:34:57 PM
Mandryka has said before that he's not very keen about LvB, so I wasn't surprised he put him on the list. I can understand putting Scarlatti and Couperin on the list--but how important are they in truth (as opposed to how well known they are)?
Both were rather important and influential upon their own and the following generation.
Quote from: Florestan on January 10, 2022, 07:02:30 AM
I can think of far worse offenders than Bax in this respect.
Whom?
Gluck
Rameau
Liszt
Billings
Varèse
I finally have my answer. It will disappoint some people but it's honest. I could probably live without music from before about 1650. There are some really incredible one-off instrumental discs from before that date which I love, e.g. the jaw dropping "La Spagna" album on BIS. And some Savall folk dance stuff.
But broadly speaking, since I did not grow up in the Christian tradition or knowing much about it, sacred music has only one dimension for me - aesthetic. And a lot of polyphony, motets, Renaissance, early masses, etc....their aesthetic appeal is "subtle". Much too subtle for my millennial low attention span ears, apparently. So just name five composers from those centuries and I'm covered. Lasso, Tallis, I don't know, name five.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 10, 2022, 02:05:59 PM
For real?
Hah, that's one of the least weird opinions anyone has posted. This forum's strong leaning for obscure 20th century British romantic music notwithstanding!
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 10, 2022, 03:12:53 PM
Whom?
Grofé
Quote from: Brian on January 10, 2022, 05:52:04 PM
Grofé
Just thinking of (as opposed to actually cuing it up) the
clop clop of
On the Trail cracks me up.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 10, 2022, 06:17:41 AM
Yes, indeed. I'll definitely keep trying with Verdi. As for Bach, I think I could learn to like his music more if I didn't want to listen to another composer instead. ;) :P
A follow-up to this message: earlier today, I bought the Verdi Muti box set. 8)
Quote from: Brian on January 10, 2022, 05:52:04 PM
I finally have my answer. It will disappoint some people but it's honest. I could probably live without music from before about 1650. There are some really incredible one-off instrumental discs from before that date which I love, e.g. the jaw dropping "La Spagna" album on BIS. And some Savall folk dance stuff.
I would not give up on Machaut, Dufay, Ockgehem, Josquin des Prez, Gesualdo, Marenzio, Monteverdi. Talk about jaw-dropping: Monteverdi's Orfeo, Poppea, the Vespers, many of the madrigals. And it's not all sacred.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 10, 2022, 08:04:45 PM
I would not give up on Machaut, Dufay, Ockgehem, Josquin des Prez, Gesualdo, Marenzio, Monteverdi. Talk about jaw-dropping: Monteverdi's Orfeo, Poppea, the Vespers, many of the madrigals. And it's not all sacred.
I love this stuff ans I am even a die hard arheist. But as you said, it's not all sacred.
Quote from: The new erato on January 10, 2022, 11:34:27 PM
I love this stuff ans I am even a die hard arheist. But as you said, it's not all sacred.
So you are a Parmenidean who thinks nothing ever flows? ;)
Quote from: JBS on January 10, 2022, 01:34:57 PM
Mandryka has said before that he's not very keen about LvB, so I wasn't surprised he put him on the list. I can understand putting Scarlatti and Couperin on the list--but how important are they in truth (as opposed to how well known they are)?
I'd say Francois Couperin and D. Scarlatti are the most important keyboard composers of their time after JS Bach and ahead of Rameau and Handel. And Couperin wrote some important church and chamber music as well. They also don't seem as niche (especially Scarlatti who is played a lot on modern piano) than most earlier baroque or pre-baroque composers, so it is IMO more interesting in a way if one doesn't care for them than with great 15th century composers because almost anything before 1600 is considered an acquired taste by many listeners.
I am practically living without tons of "important" composers meaning I don't have anything from them in my collection of very little (reason being I have never heard anything I like from these composers, so I have zero interest of exploring their music further):
Rossini (his music seems to be the antithesis of my taste ??? )
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
Paganini (extreme virtuosity alone doesn't make interesting music)
D. Scarlatti (not getting the "hype", but his father's music is very much my cup of tea!)
Messiaen (what is this cacophony? :o )
There are many more, but that's five asked.
Quote from: Jo498 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:36 AM
So you are a Parmenidean who thinks nothing ever flows? ;)
Still better than ass theist. 😀
Quote from: 71 dB on January 11, 2022, 02:24:58 AM
I am practically living without tons of "important" composers meaning I don't have anything from them in my collection of very little (reason being I have never heard anything I like from these composers, so I have zero interest of exploring their music further):
Rossini (his music seems to be the antithesis of my taste ??? )
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
Paganini (extreme virtuosity alone doesn't make interesting music)
D. Scarlatti (not getting the "hype", but his father's music is very much my cup of tea!)
Messiaen (what is this cacophony? :o )
There are many more, but that's five asked.
Nice to see you,
Poju. Hope you're dong well.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 11, 2022, 08:01:49 AM
Have you heard any?
Of course, how else would I know? It is annoying to dislike Verdi, because he is generally praised, but what can I do?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 11, 2022, 08:33:54 AM
Nice to see you, Poju. Hope you're dong well.
Thanks Karl, I am alive. 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on January 11, 2022, 02:24:58 AM
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
What of Verdi have you heard?
Quote from: 71 dB on January 11, 2022, 02:24:58 AM
I am practically living without tons of "important" composers meaning I don't have anything from them in my collection of very little (reason being I have never heard anything I like from these composers, so I have zero interest of exploring their music further):
Rossini (his music seems to be the antithesis of my taste ??? )
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
Paganini (extreme virtuosity alone doesn't make interesting music)
D. Scarlatti (not getting the "hype", but his father's music is very much my cup of tea!)
Messiaen (what is this cacophony? :o )
There are many more, but that's five asked.
I applaud you for having a list of composers that actually strike me as fairly important.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 11, 2022, 11:04:41 AM
What of Verdi have you heard?
The last work I tried was Requiem. I just don't like his music! The organization of melody/harmony/orchestration just doesn't work for me and it is quite annoying because it seems everyone is "supposed" to worship Verdi.
Quote from: Madiel on January 11, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
I applaud you for having a list of composers that actually strike me as fairly important.
I tried... ;)
Quote from: Brian on January 10, 2022, 05:52:04 PM
This forum's strong leaning for obscure 20th century British romantic music notwithstanding!
And is it good or bad?
I assume the question means "died before 1900."
All of them except these five: Machaut, Bach, Verdi, Wagner, and Brahms.
Quote from: San Antone on January 11, 2022, 06:07:03 PM
I assume the question means "died before 1900."
All of them except these five: Machaut, Bach, Verdi, Wagner, and Brahms.
More synthesized and narrow, impossible.
No Haydn? Schubert? I would never include a Renaissance or Middle Ages composer as a five ultimate favorite (as an apart and personal comment). I think you included works in most of forms as much as possible?
And no, sorry, I meant born before 1950, and significant or important or relatively known so for you. In those 50 years makes another difference.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 11, 2022, 06:19:26 PM
More synthesized and narrow, impossible.
No Haydn? Schubert? I would never include a Renaissance or Middle Ages composer as a five ultimate favorite (as an apart and personal comment). I think you included works in most of forms as much as possible?
And no, sorry, I meant born before 1950, and significant or important or relatively known so for you. In those 50 years makes another difference.
My answer is that I can live without all composers who did not write a work past 1900 except those five.
Your answer is: Five important pre-1950 composers that you couldn't live without. A hard job that! :)
I don't know if I could do anything similar, although in my personal view...
Beethoven
Nielsen
Brahms
Shostakovich
Dvorak
Wow, I didn't think I could do it! :o
Quote from: Florestan on January 09, 2022, 08:13:22 PM
Prompted by the ongoing discussion, I had a maiden listen to this:
(https://img.discogs.com/AJUj_VcBJ_SC4kV8j4qMgvRQyto=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7062061-1432821071-1429.jpeg.jpg)
Atmospheric, haunting, magical music in colorful, lush orchestration --- what's not to like, I wonder? In fact, I think I might have just made a major discovery.
Great to hear! ;)
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 09, 2022, 08:18:19 PM
Let's see...I absolutely would die a happy man if I never heard another note from Nørgård, Xenakis, almost any Baroque Era composer, Verdi, Pettersson, Satie, Pfitzner, Bacewicz and most British composers (w/ the exception of Vaughan Williams, Britten, Elgar, Walton and Arnold).
Once again, I strongly disagree with you about the majority of British composers. ;) And I'm surprised to hear you don't like Bacewicz - I would think her style would be right up your alley! Agreed re. Nørgård, Xenakis, and Verdi.
Quote from: kyjo on January 11, 2022, 07:12:54 PM
Once again, I strongly disagree with you about the majority of British composers. ;) And I'm surprised to hear you don't like Bacewicz - I would think her style would be right up your alley! Agreed re. Nørgård, Xenakis, and Verdi.
I like Bacewicz, but just not well enough to call her a favorite.
Quote from: SimonNZ on January 09, 2022, 11:56:31 PM
The five most recorded composers by Maria Callas.
So I never again have to risk hearing Maria fucking Callas.
<chuckles heartily>
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 11, 2022, 05:39:00 PM
And is it good or bad?
I make no judgment! It's like if your group of friends really likes kung fu movies, that is neither good nor bad, it's just a group of people who really like kung fu movies!
Quote from: SimonNZ on January 09, 2022, 11:56:31 PM
The five most recorded composers by Maria Callas.
So I never again have to risk hearing Maria fucking Callas.
Then most likely Donizetti, Verdi, Bellini, Puccini, and Rossini, or maybe Bizet.
Quote from: 71 dB on January 11, 2022, 02:24:58 AM
Rossini (his music seems to be the antithesis of my taste ??? )
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
Paganini (extreme virtuosity alone doesn't make interesting music)
You should never ever consider visiting Italy, you'd loathe each and every day spent there. ;D
As for Paganini, many important composers and writers considered his music extremely interesting. Just saying.
Quote from: Florestan on January 13, 2022, 02:09:02 AM
You should never ever consider visiting Italy, you'd loathe each and every day spent there. ;D
I don't remember people spontaneously bursting into operatic song in Venice or Milan. I had to go to La Scala to experience it (Monteverdi).
Quote from: Madiel on January 13, 2022, 02:51:57 AM
I don't remember people spontaneously bursting into operatic song in Venice or Milan. I had to go to La Scala to experience it (Monteverdi).
What I mean is that the general mood and atmosphere in Italy, especially south of Rome, is quite Rossinian: carefree, joyous, fun and
dolce farniente-ish. ;)
Quote from: Florestan on January 13, 2022, 02:58:12 AM
What I mean is that the general mood and atmosphere in Italy, especially south of Rome, is quite Rossinian: carefree, joyous, fun and dolce farniente-ish. ;)
Ah well, I stayed up north!
Quote from: Madiel on January 13, 2022, 03:00:38 AM
Ah well, I stayed up north!
I went as far south as Sorrento*, south of Naples, and enjoyed every second of the two-day stay in that region. Places, landscapes and people's mood, everything was to my liking. --- but then again I had been quite the Italianophile even before setting foot on Italian soil for the first time. 8)
of the
Torna a Surriento fame, also Torquato Tasso's birthplace.
Quote from: Brian on January 12, 2022, 06:54:48 AM
I make no judgment! It's like if your group of friends really likes kung fu movies, that is neither good nor bad, it's just a group of people who really like kung fu movies!
Precisamente!
Quote from: Florestan on January 13, 2022, 02:09:02 AM
You should never ever consider visiting Italy, you'd loathe each and every day spent there. ;D
Incorrect. When we spent two wonderful weeks touring about Italy at will, it so happened that we heard no measurable amount of
Verdi,
Rossini or
Paganini (probably there were bits in television ads, which never proved excessive. In fact I don't think that
Paganini rose to even the level of a trace element. So a dislike for these composers is no obstacle at all to enjoying Italy.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 13, 2022, 06:57:35 AM
Incorrect. When we spent two wonderful weeks touring about Italy at will, it so happened that we heard no measurable amount of Verdi, Rossini or Paganini (probably there were bits in television ads, which never proved excessive. In fact I don't think that Paganini rose to even the level of a trace element. So a dislike for these composers is no obstacle at all to enjoying Italy.
You seem to have missed my subsequent post,
Karl. ;)
Quote from: Brian on January 12, 2022, 06:54:48 AM
I make no judgment! It's like if your group of friends really likes kung fu movies, that is neither good nor bad, it's just a group of people who really like kung fu movies!
Ah, good to hear! So it's not odd to prefer British music like Bax's symphonies to Chopin Waltzes. I'm relieved. 0:)
I'm guilty! :-X
Quote from: MusicTurner on January 12, 2022, 07:09:49 AM
Then most likely Donizetti, Verdi, Bellini, Puccini, and Rossini, or maybe Bizet.
I could live without these, except, of course, Giacomo Puccini. I can't live without his Turandot (Mehta Recording). I remember the first time I heard it. Shockingly glorious to the highest, I must say! And there are more operas and works I like by him, including
Le Vili and
Edgar, and the compelling
Messa di Gloria.
I should add or modify some five more-serious and important figures:
Chopin
Händel
Vivaldi
Stockhausen
Rossini
Really yes, as long as my beloved composers are not touched, I feel rather comfortable, to say the least. 8) 0:) ;D
I had included Cristóbal Halffter in my initial post, and how wrong I was. That didn't even include Ernesto whom I truly admire and enjoy his works like the Sinfonietta and Rapsodia Portuguesa.
Now the title of the thread is updated: Five important born-pre-1980 composers that you easily could live without
Do I hear the sound of goalposts moving?
Also... living without Chopin is the behaviour of barbarians. Although even barbarians can probably hum the funeral march.
Quote from: Madiel on January 13, 2022, 02:26:38 PM
Do I hear the sound of goalposts moving?
What do you mean by this?
Quote
Also... living without Chopin is the behaviour of barbarians. Although even barbarians can probably hum the funeral march.
They couldn't hum, and this image works like a proof, I guess: :P
(https://lacentral24.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/https___winteriscoming.net_files_2018_02_conan-the-barbarian.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 13, 2022, 01:55:39 PM
Ah, good to hear! So it's not odd to prefer British music like Bax's symphonies to Chopin Waltzes. I'm relieved. 0:)
I'm guilty! :-X
Odd in the sense of unusual and peculiar, probably yes. Odd in the sense of being worthy of criticism, no. ;D
Who goes to Chopin for the waltzes anyway?
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 13, 2022, 01:55:39 PM
Ah, good to hear! So it's not odd to prefer British music like Bax's symphonies to Chopin Waltzes. I'm relieved. 0:)
I'm guilty! :-X
Odd in only a statistical sense,
Cesar! 8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 13, 2022, 02:55:01 PM
Odd in only a statistical sense, Cesar! 8)
Oh yes, I can't argue with the scientific proof, my friend. ;D
Cesar, GMG's Odd Man Out ;)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 10, 2022, 02:05:59 PM
For real?
Yes, quite real. BTW Mirror Image basically said the same thing as me on the previous page, except he exempted Britten, Elgar, Walton and Arnold ;)
Longer explanation - I like music from all those composers and several others not listed. My main issue is
time. I can listen to roughly a CD or two per day on the weekdays, this is listening that is not passive while doing something else, but instead fully immersed, eyes closed in the zone listening which is how I prefer to listen to fully absorb non pop or rock music. Using this an example I
adore JS Bach's Sacred Cantatas, by this schedule just to hear the cycle would take me two months! Another example is I saw the Brahms late piano works thread bumped, these are among my favorite works by Brahms. I searched my last.fm CSV file for the last time I listened to them and aside from recently playing them after seeing the thread bumped, it was three years ago.
In reality things aren't quite that dire as there is more time to listen to music on the weekends, but this is just giving a rough idea of how time pressed I imagine most of us are given the vast scope of classical repertoire. Hence why it would be no water off my back if I were to never hear music I'm not completely in love with.
edit - it warmed my heart to see not a single person mentioned Berio ;D No Feldman either
Quote from: hvbias on January 13, 2022, 03:29:18 PM
In reality things aren't quite that dire as there is more time to listen to music on the weekends, but this is just giving a rough idea of how time pressed I imagine most of us are given the vast scope of classical repertoire. Hence why it would be no water off my back if I were to never hear music I'm not completely in love with.
Yes, precisely. There is so much music we love and which keeps us occupied, that we don't have the time to care for the music we dont feel attracted to.
Quote from: hvbias on January 13, 2022, 03:29:18 PM
Using this an example I adore JS Bach's Sacred Cantatas, by this schedule just to hear the cycle would take me two months!
Speedy Gonzalez. I'm approaching the 10-year mark...
Quote from: Florestan on January 13, 2022, 02:09:02 AM
You should never ever consider visiting Italy, you'd loathe each and every day spent there. ;D
Disliking a few Italian composers doesn't mean I loathe Italy althogether. Here's some Italian composers I like a lot:
Arcangelo Corelli
Alessandro Scarlatti
Antonio Vivaldi
Giacomo Puccini
Salvador Di Vittorio
I was in Italy some 30 years ago and I don't remember hating one second of it... 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on January 14, 2022, 10:31:19 AM
Disliking a few Italian composers doesn't mean I loathe Italy althogether. Here's some Italian composers I like a lot:
Arcangelo Corelli
Alessandro Scarlatti
Antonio Vivaldi
Giacomo Puccini
Salvador Di Vittorio
Thumbs up for Corelli and Puccini!
Beethoven
Mozart
Vivaldi
Mendelssohn
Dvorak
Easy.
There's more ....
Quote from: San Antone on January 15, 2022, 05:16:06 PM
Beethoven
Mozart
Vivaldi
Mendelssohn
Dvorak
Easy.
There's more ....
Tell us more! Beethoven, Mendelssohn and Dvorák are nasty daring. ;)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 15, 2022, 05:36:27 PM
Tell us more! Beethoven, Mendelssohn and Dvorák are nasty daring. ;)
I could easily live without Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Bedřich Smetana, Richard Strauss, Camille Saint-Saëns, Modest Mussorgsky, Edvard Grieg, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Leoš Janáček, Edward Elgar, Frederick Delius, Alexander Glazunov, Carl Nielsen, Jean Sibelius, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Max Reger, Gustav Holst, Ottorino Respighi - and more.
Quote from: San Antone on January 15, 2022, 06:08:03 PM
I could easily live without Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Bedřich Smetana, Richard Strauss, Camille Saint-Saëns, Modest Mussorgsky, Edvard Grieg, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Leoš Janáček, Edward Elgar, Frederick Delius, Alexander Glazunov, Carl Nielsen, Jean Sibelius, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Max Reger, Gustav Holst, Ottorino Respighi - and more.
I like your sincerity! Thanks for sharing. Hopefully other members don't feel offended or pissed off by these lists of we all. I really find them fun!
There is so much music I love and so little time. You could probably rip out any 5 composers from my collection and it would take me some months to discover they were missing.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 15, 2022, 06:16:11 PM
I like your sincerity! Thanks for sharing. Hopefully other members don't feel offended or pissed off by these lists of we all. I really find them fun!
Well, you asked. ;)
Quote from: Madiel on January 13, 2022, 02:50:32 PM
Who goes to Chopin for the waltzes anyway?
I don't even go to Johann Strauss for the waltzes.
Actually, he's one of the few important composers I could live without.
Quote from: San Antone on January 15, 2022, 06:08:03 PM
I could easily live without Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Bedřich Smetana, Richard Strauss, Camille Saint-Saëns, Modest Mussorgsky, Edvard Grieg, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Leoš Janáček, Edward Elgar, Frederick Delius, Alexander Glazunov, Carl Nielsen, Jean Sibelius, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Max Reger, Gustav Holst, Ottorino Respighi - and more.
What music
do you like?
Quote from: San Antone on January 15, 2022, 06:08:03 PM
I could easily live without Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Bedřich Smetana, Richard Strauss, Camille Saint-Saëns, Modest Mussorgsky, Edvard Grieg, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Leoš Janáček, Edward Elgar, Frederick Delius, Alexander Glazunov, Carl Nielsen, Jean Sibelius, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Max Reger, Gustav Holst, Ottorino Respighi - and more.
Hah! I adore most of those composers expect for Delius and Reger. :)
I suspect there are actually quite a few composers that San Antone enjoys. For instance, he hasn't named anyone from the Medieval or Renaissance periods, which offer a fair number of notable composers.
Let me add that while I've been startled by a few of the posts, I'm more intrigued, and thank Symphonic Addict for initiating this thread. ;)
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 16, 2022, 06:02:47 AM
What music do you like?
Early music from 1000-Bach, music from late 19th century, Mahler, Brahms, Verdi, Wagner, Liszt, Debussy, Faure, Duruflé, and others in similar style, much of the early 20th century - present.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 16, 2022, 06:01:28 AM
I don't even go to Johann Strauss for the waltzes.
Actually, he's one of the few important composers I could live without.
Don't tell me you're a quadrille enthusiast!
Quote from: Brian on January 16, 2022, 09:13:48 AM
Don't tell me you're a quadrille enthusiast!
Oh, shoot, you've found me out!
Joh. Strauss' greatest work is "Die Fledermaus", a very good comical opera (admittedly, many of its pieces are still in 3/4 time ;))
What's good about this thread is that it's about important composers. Being named here tells more about us as listeners than about them as composers ;)
Quote from: San Antone on January 16, 2022, 07:18:08 AM
Early music from 1000-Bach, music from late 19th century, Mahler, Brahms, Verdi, Wagner, Liszt, Debussy, Faure, Duruflé, and others in similar style, much of the early 20th century - present.
Music just took a wrong turn for a couple of centuries with the "classics". :laugh:
Quote from: André on January 16, 2022, 11:12:38 AM
What's good about this thread is that it's about important composers. Being named here tells more about us as listeners than about them as composers ;)
Yep. There are certainly composers who I never realised were important before they got mentioned here. In fact I think in a couple of cases I'd never really heard much about these important composers before.
Quote from: Madiel on January 16, 2022, 01:15:41 PM
Yep. There are certainly composers who I never realised were important before they got mentioned here. In fact I think in a couple of cases I'd never really heard much about these important composers before.
My journey into classical music has been a bit unusual, I think. Discovering composers without anyone to really guide me in my early years of listening meant that I didn't always catch on to the 'important' composers. I definitely still have big gaps in what lots of others would view as the key canon. I've learned a great deal from my reading here over time, and I hope to learn lots more.
Quote from: kyjo on January 16, 2022, 06:32:25 AM
Hah! I adore most of those composers expect for Delius and Reger. :)
Both Reger and Delius are worth your time, and yes, don't touch my Janacek, or my Elgar!
Quote from: André on January 16, 2022, 11:12:38 AM
What's good about this thread is that it's about important composers. Being named here tells more about us as listeners than about them as composers ;)
A good conclusion, André!
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 09, 2022, 04:03:59 AM
Piano guy*
Powdered wig guy*
Opera guy*
Choral guy*
Godowsky
*or girl, person, or other nonspecific or specific self-designation
That probably covers it.
So, haven't you listened yet to anything by those "guys"? Or would you save some from the first four choices.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 16, 2022, 04:36:33 PM
Both Reger and Delius are worth your time, and yes, don't touch my Janacek, or my Elgar!
I do cherish some works by Reger (above all the
Böcklin-Suite) and more so by Delius (Florida Suite, Brigg Fair, Piano Concerto, Double Concerto). I just have to be in the right mood to be able to really enjoy certain works by these composers.
Quote from: LKB on January 16, 2022, 07:10:54 AM
I suspect there are actually quite a few composers that San Antone enjoys. For instance, he hasn't named anyone from the Medieval or Renaissance periods, which offer a fair number of notable composers.
Let me add that while I've been startled by a few of the posts, I'm more intrigued, and thank Symphonic Addict for initiating this thread. ;)
My pleasure, and also amusing because of how each of us interpret the epithet "important" or is "affected" by others' opinions. ::) ;D
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 16, 2022, 04:52:09 PM
So, haven't you listened yet to anything by those "guys"? Or would you save some from the first four choices.
It has been a while. When I first started listening to classical music I bought the Naxos releases of the later Mozart symphonies, then replaced them with a complete box set from one of the online monthly music clubs in the early 90's. I rarely listen, but I probably wouldn't cast them to the abyss - it is Mozart, after all. Bach? Like many, I enjoyed the Brandenburgs but stopped there, because back in the mists of time, I overdosed somewhat on Locatelli, Telemann, Handel, Boccherini, and lots of music from the Baroque and not far beyond. I also overdosed on Haydn symphonies. So many Haydn symphonies. It all became a bit wallpaper-y and too 'easy' to listen to. As my music tastes have developed, I simply haven't returned to these.
Choral music and opera usually don't do a huge amount for me, but again, there are exceptions.
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 17, 2022, 04:27:44 AM
It has been a while. When I first started listening to classical music I bought the Naxos releases of the later Mozart symphonies, then replaced them with a complete box set from one of the online monthly music clubs in the early 90's. I rarely listen, but I probably wouldn't cast them to the abyss - it is Mozart, after all. Bach? Like many, I enjoyed the Brandenburgs but stopped there, because back in the mists of time, I overdosed somewhat on Locatelli, Telemann, Handel, Boccherini, and lots of music from the Baroque and not far beyond. I also overdosed on Haydn symphonies. So many Haydn symphonies. It all became a bit wallpaper-y and too 'easy' to listen to. As my music tastes have developed, I simply haven't returned to these.
Choral music and opera usually don't do a huge amount for me, but again, there are exceptions.
I would suggest to you the JS Bach cello suites. If those turn out to have a positive effect, then perhaps the partitas and sonatas for solo violin will as well.
You ( and, perhaps, others ) might also consider Josquin Des Prez. Back in the early '90's the King's Singers released a Josquin CD on RCA, comprised of both secular and sacred pieces. As they're performed by only six voices, it isn't really a choral recording per se, and it's been a favorite of mine for nearly 30 years.
Quote from: LKB on January 17, 2022, 04:50:19 AM
I would suggest to you the JS Bach cello suites. If those turn out to have a positive effect, then perhaps the partitas and sonatas for solo violin will as well.
You ( and, perhaps, others ) might also consider Josquin Des Prez. Back in the early '90's the King's Singers released a Josquin CD on RCA, comprised of both secular and sacred pieces. As they're performed by only six voices, it isn't really a choral recording per se, and it's been a favorite of mine for nearly 30 years.
Thank you for the suggestions, LKB. I perhaps ought to open myself up to these. I do occasionally have an appreciation for Gregorian Chant and some pre-Reformation settings of the psalms (the Des Prez CPO 2012 release included), so perhaps I am not a completely lost cause. Masses, on point of principle, are less my thing. I've been known to play John (Kenneth) Taverner's forays into Orthodoxy and some Rautavaara, Hovhaness, and inevitably some of the English composers who stray into choral territory.
On reflection, the more I ponder, the more I realise that I do have an appreciation for some of this stuff. I just don't return to it so frequently. Placing it in the redundant pile is perhaps somewhat premature.
You can still keep Godowsky, Liszt and Chopin though :)
Haydn is later in life (or later in musical exposure) music to me because to really hear how interesting, distinctive, and rule-breaking each symphony is, you have to be really immersed in the art form first. Certainly 10 years ago, I thought Haydn was like Mozart, but weird and quirky and limited, rather than Mozart's seeming perfection. It took a long time to dig him on more than a surface level of "that sounds nice." I think because the way we listen now is so different from the norms of that time.
But the Bach cello suites were my entry to Bach, too. I knew the Brandenburg concertos and a few other things before that, but thought of them as background music. Fournier was my starter but there are many, many great options for all tastes (e.g. Queyras, H. Schiff, Ma 2 or 3).
Quote from: Brian on January 17, 2022, 06:32:24 AM
Haydn is later in life (or later in musical exposure) music to me because to really hear how interesting, distinctive, and rule-breaking each symphony is, you have to be really immersed in the art form first. Certainly 10 years ago, I thought Haydn was like Mozart, but weird and quirky and limited, rather than Mozart's seeming perfection. It took a long time to dig him on more than a surface level of "that sounds nice." I think because the way we listen now is so different from the norms of that time.
But the Bach cello suites were my entry to Bach, too. I knew the Brandenburg concertos and a few other things before that, but thought of them as background music. Fournier was my starter but there are many, many great options for all tastes (e.g. Queyras, H. Schiff, Ma 2 or 3).
Oddly enough, the cello suites are among my least favorite of Bach's music. I much prefer the solo violin sonatas and partitas.
Quote from: Brian on January 17, 2022, 06:32:24 AM
Haydn is later in life (or later in musical exposure) music to me because to really hear how interesting, distinctive, and rule-breaking each symphony is, you have to be really immersed in the art form first. Certainly 10 years ago, I thought Haydn was like Mozart, but weird and quirky and limited, rather than Mozart's seeming perfection. It took a long time to dig him on more than a surface level of "that sounds nice." I think because the way we listen now is so different from the norms of that time.
I agree with this. I used to think Haydn's music was nothing special and didn't get all the hype, but after spending much more time with it recently I've come to love many of his works.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 17, 2022, 08:08:08 AM
Oddly enough, the cello suites are among my least favorite of Bach's music. I much prefer the solo violin sonatas and partitas.
Huh! I wonder what about the personality or experience pushes us toward one or the other. I have a personal fondness for the lower pitched instruments in all families; maybe that contributes.
Quote from: Brian on January 17, 2022, 11:52:19 AM
Huh! I wonder what about the personality or experience pushes us toward one or the other. I have a personal fondness for the lower pitched instruments in all families; maybe that contributes.
They are rather different works and the solo high pitched violin very probably more of an acquired taste than solo cello. I can see someone finding the cello suites a bit boring but the violin partitas could be irritating. I like the E major and d minor but don't care much for the rest. My favorite Bach chamber music are the violin/harpsichord sonatas.
Quote from: Jo498 on January 17, 2022, 12:14:11 PM
They are rather different works and the solo high pitched violin very probably more of an acquired taste than solo cello. I can see someone finding the cello suites a bit boring but the violin partitas could be irritating. I like the E major and d minor but don't care much for the rest. My favorite Bach chamber music are the violin/harpsichord sonatas.
Both the cello suites and the sonatas and partitas for solo violin are among my favorite works by Bach. The others are solo keyboard works. I am less a fan of the instrumental sonatas with continuo, or even the large vocal works.
It is no surprise to anyone who's been... paying too much attention to me you stalker... that the cello suites are my favourite Bach.
Partly it's the sheer regularity of form. As set of suites, they're more consistent in basic form than any of Bach's other sets. Same number of movements, only change is which dance is used for the galanterie (and it's just the one dance each time).
Also, Haydn is a freaking genius.
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 17, 2022, 04:27:44 AM
It has been a while. When I first started listening to classical music I bought the Naxos releases of the later Mozart symphonies, then replaced them with a complete box set from one of the online monthly music clubs in the early 90's. I rarely listen, but I probably wouldn't cast them to the abyss - it is Mozart, after all. Bach? Like many, I enjoyed the Brandenburgs but stopped there, because back in the mists of time, I overdosed somewhat on Locatelli, Telemann, Handel, Boccherini, and lots of music from the Baroque and not far beyond. I also overdosed on Haydn symphonies. So many Haydn symphonies. It all became a bit wallpaper-y and too 'easy' to listen to. As my music tastes have developed, I simply haven't returned to these.
Choral music and opera usually don't do a huge amount for me, but again, there are exceptions.
Mmm quite interesting to read, fox! Analyzing about my development of tastes, lately I too am pointing to prefer more challenging, creative or innovative works or composers, in terms of sounds or melodies, styles, developments, etc. But, on the other hand, I do cherish the fine and expert craftsmanship by the Austro-German "heavy yet meaty" stuff.
In other words, the constant is: tastes change all the time.
Quote from: Madiel on January 17, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
It is no surprise to anyone who's been... paying too much attention to me you stalker... that the cello suites are my favourite Bach.
Partly it's the sheer regularity of form. As set of suites, they're more consistent in basic form than any of Bach's other sets. Same number of movements, only change is which dance is used for the galanterie (and it's just the one dance each time).
Also, Haydn is a freaking genius.
And also a strict disciplinarian. This week on a CBC radio show the host said that early on Haydn adopted a rigorous work method, setting himself objectives and deadlines daily. Later on when at the service of the Esterhazys he was able to put this to good use, his musical ideas freely flowing, unencumbered by technical difficulties.
Quote from: Brian on January 17, 2022, 11:52:19 AM
Huh! I wonder what about the personality or experience pushes us toward one or the other. I have a personal fondness for the lower pitched instruments in all families; maybe that contributes.
Unfortunate that Bach never wrote solo works for the contrabassoon.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 17, 2022, 08:59:24 PM
Unfortunate that Bach never wrote solo works for the contrabassoon.
Great. Now I
have to go listen to The Sorcerer's Apprentice...
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 17, 2022, 08:59:24 PM
Unfortunate that Bach never wrote solo works for the contrabassoon.
I'd almost bet that someone arranged/recorded the Bach cello suites for contrabasson (I am pretty sure about saxophone and double bass), or at least the Art of Fugue for bassoon quartet or so. And this would probably be still moderate/conservative as far as Bach arrangements go...
Quote from: Jo498 on January 18, 2022, 01:22:57 AM
I'd almost bet that someone arranged/recorded the Bach cello suites for contrabasson (I am pretty sure about saxophone and double bass), or at least the Art of Fugue for bassoon quartet or so. And this would probably be still moderate/conservative as far as Bach arrangements go...
Then there's hope for that lovably grotesque instrument.
But wait! Wikipedia gives us a 17-second sample from a Bach cello suite played on the Contrafagotto - which is easily 16 seconds too much for moi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon#Baroque_era_%E2%80%93_present
As fans of the old PJBE recordings know, the first solo Cello suite was transcribed for baritone horn decades ago. I was actually treated to a live performance back in 1974.
Apropos exotic arrangements: Wolfgang Rübsam, yes that Rübsam, has made an arrangement of all the Bach cello suites for two trombones!! I have seen some of the scores but never heard them performed.
Concerning arrangements for French horn there is this, which I BTW haven't heard (I'm not that interested in these kinds of arrangements for non-string instruments):
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Radek-Baborak/dp/B01N8UYP8R/ref=sr_1_218?crid=3IBS6X5H9FN40&keywords=bach+cello+suites&qid=1642546952&s=music&sprefix=bach+cello+suites%2Cpopular%2C65&sr=1-218
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 18, 2022, 02:06:32 PM
Apropos exotic arrangements: Wolfgang Rübsam, yes that Rübsam, has made an arrangement of all the Bach cello suites for two trombones!! I have seen some of the scores but never heard them performed.
Concerning arrangements for French horn there is this, which I BTW haven't heard (I'm not that interested in these kinds of arrangements for non-string instruments):
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Radek-Baborak/dp/B01N8UYP8R/ref=sr_1_218?crid=3IBS6X5H9FN40&keywords=bach+cello+suites&qid=1642546952&s=music&sprefix=bach+cello+suites%2Cpopular%2C65&sr=1-218
This is your lucky day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqJbXflRpPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNw6xA5u5fg&t=8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDnWYqtfc0&t=3s
It hurts to see Wagner mentioned so many times, but de gustibus non disputandum est. Although I've been trying to listen to different composers as much as possible, I could easily live without:
Giuseppe Verdi
Gaetano Donizetti
Gioacchino Rossini
Philip Glass
Steve Reich
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on June 13, 2022, 05:53:09 AM
It hurts to see Wagner mentioned so many times, but de gustibus non disputandum est. Although I've been trying to listen to different composers as much as possible, I could easily live without:
Giuseppe Verdi
Gaetano Donizetti
Gioacchino Rossini
Philip Glass
Steve Reich
I simply don't remember if I've posted to this thread earlier. It is possible, and I may have set
Wagner in my tale of five, but that really isn't true. There are selections of
Wagner (albeit typically without voices, the Prelude to
Parsifal, e.g.) which I absolutely would not wish to be without.
Where with
Rossini, while I certainly enjoy listening to the occasional overture, would I miss him if he were gone? I'm just not certain.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 13, 2022, 07:22:03 AM
I simply don't remember if I've posted to this thread earlier. It is possible, and I may have set Wagner in my tale of five, but that really isn't true. There are selections of Wagner (albeit typically without voices, the Prelude to Parsifal, e.g.) which I absolutely would not wish to be without.
Where with Rossini, while I certainly enjoy listening to the occasional overture, would I miss him if he were gone? I'm just not certain.
I've watched a bit of Rossini opera on DVD. Wonderfully entertaining if done well.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 13, 2022, 08:03:56 AM
I've watched a bit of Rossini opera on DVD. Wonderfully entertaining if done well.
Think of it this way: in the operatic world of the early 1800s
Rossini was a radical firebrand. ;)
Quote from: Florestan on January 09, 2022, 08:13:22 PM
Prompted by the ongoing discussion, I had a maiden listen to this:
(https://img.discogs.com/AJUj_VcBJ_SC4kV8j4qMgvRQyto=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7062061-1432821071-1429.jpeg.jpg)
Atmospheric, haunting, magical music in colorful, lush orchestration --- what's not to like, I wonder? In fact, I think I might have just made a major discovery.
Volume 2 is even better! ;D
(//)
Quote from: Daverz on January 10, 2022, 08:40:31 AM
I couldn't live without Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
+1
Quote from: 71 dB on January 11, 2022, 02:24:58 AM
I am practically living without tons of "important" composers meaning I don't have anything from them in my collection of very little (reason being I have never heard anything I like from these composers, so I have zero interest of exploring their music further):
Rossini (his music seems to be the antithesis of my taste ??? )
Verdi (almost as bad as Rossini)
Paganini (extreme virtuosity alone doesn't make interesting music)
D. Scarlatti (not getting the "hype", but his father's music is very much my cup of tea!)
Messiaen (what is this cacophony? :o )
There are many more, but that's five asked.
I very much agree with these choices. I've enjoyed looking back through this thread which is quite fun as long as you don't take it too seriously and become apoplectic with rage. Anyway, a warm handshake to my fellow Baxians here 8)
Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2022, 04:16:55 AM
Anyway, a warm handshake to my fellow Baxians here 8)
*Shakes back*
Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2022, 04:16:55 AM
I very much agree with these choices.
That's cool Jeffrey. 0:)
If it's not too late to play...
For me, I think it's only fair to include composers of which a) I've heard more than a handful of works, so as to say I've heard a decent sampling, and b) I at least partially understand and can follow the music. The first stipulation rules out a great many minor (and a few not-so-minor) composers, and those who primarily specialize in genres that I don't much listen to (mostly non-choral vocal works like lieder and much opera); the second rules out much atonal or serial music -- I have tried, but I don't know that my music-theoryless listening chops are quite up to the challenge and life is short, so rather than pour water on something I simply don't understand, I'll set it aside.
All of that said, five greats who have not yet floated my boat:
- Berlioz -- I occasionally enjoy the Symphonie Fantastique, but frankly nothing else has clicked with me.
- Liszt -- Romantic tone poems are just not my thing, see Berlioz above. I keep trying to nibble at his piano output.
- Bernstein -- As a conductor and enthusiastic teacher of music, yes. As a composer, I struggle.
- Mussorgsky -- Unless you count Stokowski juicing up Night on Bald Mountain.
- Bax -- Not sure he really counts as a major composer amongst the world at large, but that's likely another thread. I acquired his symphonies and a few other things on Naxos years ago when I was still in my "building a library" phase, and keep occasionally coming back to them, without much success.
Quote from: j winter on September 29, 2022, 11:52:52 AM
- Liszt -- Romantic tone poems are just not my thing, see Berlioz above. I keep trying to nibble at his piano output.
I beseech you, keep nibbling.
Quote from: Todd on September 29, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
I beseech you, keep nibbling.
Without going too far off topic, any specific recommendations? Top 2 or 3 discs to check out?
Quote from: j winter on September 29, 2022, 12:51:14 PM
Without going too far off topic, any specific recommendations? Top 2 or 3 discs to check out?
Sure.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fN6gimzKL._SX425_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81dC4dTM7UL._SY425_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51M7BsfePkL._SY425_.jpg)
Quote from: j winter on September 29, 2022, 11:52:52 AM
If it's not too late to play...
For me, I think it's only fair to include composers of which a) I've heard more than a handful of works, so as to say I've heard a decent sampling, and b) I at least partially understand and can follow the music. The first stipulation rules out a great many minor (and a few not-so-minor) composers, and those who primarily specialize in genres that I don't much listen to (mostly non-choral vocal works like lieder and much opera); the second rules out much atonal or serial music -- I have tried, but I don't know that my music-theoryless listening chops are quite up to the challenge and life is short, so rather than pour water on something I simply don't understand, I'll set it aside.
All of that said, five greats who have not yet floated my boat:
- Berlioz -- I occasionally enjoy the Symphonie Fantastique, but frankly nothing else has clicked with me.
- Liszt -- Romantic tone poems are just not my thing, see Berlioz above. I keep trying to nibble at his piano output.
- Bernstein -- As a conductor and enthusiastic teacher of music, yes. As a composer, I struggle.
- Mussorgsky -- Unless you count Stokowski juicing up Night on Bald Mountain.
- Bax -- Not sure he really counts as a major composer amongst the world at large, but that's likely another thread. I acquired his symphonies and a few other things on Naxos years ago when I was still in my "building a library" phase, and keep occasionally coming back to them, without much success.
With Liszt I think the trick is to let yourself go, kick back, relax and enjoy. It's sensual music. Of course that means you have to really like the sound of the piano - so it means that you have to try a few different pianos/pianists to find the sound which appeals.
My six penny-worth;
I dislike this kind of negative thread - all it does is rile people whose favourite composers appear in someone else's lists. I completely get that we will all have our personal preferences and blind spots but as it says in the song; "accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative......" (I'm sure other folk will disagree!)
So you dislike dislikes. :laugh:
Quote from: Mandryka on September 29, 2022, 01:48:52 PM
With Liszt I think the trick is to let yourself go, kick back, relax and enjoy. It's sensual music. Of course that means you have to really like the sound of the piano - so it means that you have to try a few different pianos/pianists to find the sound which appeals.
Thanks for this... I will rummage around my shelves and give a few things a spin... even though I haven't really focused on acquiring recordings, I've managed to collect a few as parts of various boxes, etc...
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 29, 2022, 02:02:22 PM
I dislike this kind of negative thread - all it does is rile people whose favourite composers appear in someone else's lists.
Only if the thread is taken seriously, which the OP clearly stated should not be the case. ;)
The "negative" threads can always lead to getting a different angle and maybe some recommendations that might lead to a change in appreciation.
For Berlioz I'd recommend to try (again?) The damnation of Faust (my favorite work of his) and Romeo & Juliette. Or at least the instrumental excerpts of the latter. I have my doubts about the full work that is a strange hybrid but the 4 or so movements that used to be fairly popular as some kind of suite are stunning, the Love Scene and the "Mab scherzo" being two of Berlioz' best pieces.
(I haven't really got into the operas and sacred music myself, got bored to quickly...)
Well, I was going to point out that there is no obligation to start living with music that you've been just fine living without. There is plenty of other music to live with.
But then, my list of composers has Philip Glass on it. And Vikingur Ólafsson has gone and caused a Philip Glass album to be on my shopping list. So Glass is going to be in my library. Maybe one day there'll even be some Stockhausen in there, though I would still be incredibly surprised by that.
Quote from: Todd on September 29, 2022, 01:01:29 PM
Sure.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fN6gimzKL._SX425_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81dC4dTM7UL._SY425_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51M7BsfePkL._SY425_.jpg)
I've just listened to bk 3 in the Gorus Années - it's very good, in a suite which I think is quite difficult to make work for me. Thanks
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on January 17, 2022, 08:59:24 PM
Unfortunate that Bach never wrote solo works for the contrabassoon.
We now have something close: an arrangement of the keyboard Partita No. 2 for eight bassoons, recorded by one bassoon player on eight tracks (https://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/bram-van-sambeek-plays-bach-on-the-bassoon.html). There are sound samples for the curious >:D
Quote from: Brian on October 01, 2022, 06:42:50 AM
We now have something close: an arrangement of the keyboard Partita No. 2 for eight bassoons, recorded by one bassoon player on eight tracks (https://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/bram-van-sambeek-plays-bach-on-the-bassoon.html). There are sound samples for the curious >:D
And you can get that bad boy in 24 bit sound!
I could do without Vieuxtemps, but I don't think that he's an especially important composer.
Quote from: Madiel on October 01, 2022, 01:03:50 AM
Well, I was going to point out that there is no obligation to start living with music that you've been just fine living without. There is plenty of other music to live with.
A good point. Sometimes I feel it's embarrassing that I can easily do without opera and serial music, but what the heck .. I have to hurry if I'm going to hear all the renaissance music and baroque music I want, and then there's no time for the rest.
Hmmmm..."major"?
Well maybe:
I was going to go with Berlioz, but am starting to rethink that ::)
I can think of minor ones that I've attempted to like, but for the most part the ball has yet to drop:
Bantock
Bax (though I recall liking, I believe it was "November Woods")
Trying to rack my brain regarding other ones? Often I find that I'll at least like a few works my major composers.
Like Holst for instance (I should revisit, I know).
There's a bunch of 1960's '70's experimental/techno music that does nothing for me personally, but I do understand that there were a number of composers who helped to create the groundwork (or inspire) later composers, so we have much to thank them for their explorations and creations. Still, I try to keep an open mind. Lately, I've been having fun exploring Penderecki and appreciate his evolution and changes in his music over the years.
Will let you know when I think of others.
...and apologies to my British friends!
PD
Poor Bax, at least some of us do support him! ;)
I could do a new list with baroque composers:
Rameau, F. Couperin, Telemann, Lully and Purcell.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 18, 2022, 11:57:16 AM
Poor Bax, at least some of us do support him! ;)
I could do a new list with baroque composers:
Rameau, F. Couperin, Telemann, Lully and Purcell.
There's much of Purcell that I don't know, but I must admit that I adore his opera
Dido and Aeneas. Do you know that one? Or, and perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, you're not much into opera?
I very seldom listen to Rameau, Couperin and Telemann myself--particularly these days.
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on October 19, 2022, 05:39:55 AM
There's much of Purcell that I don't know, but I must admit that I adore his opera Dido and Aeneas. Do you know that one? Or, and perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, you're not much into opera?
I very seldom listen to Rameau, Couperin and Telemann myself--particularly these days.
PD
No, I don't, but I do intend to give it a spin in the near future. And I'm much more into opera lately, so there's hope for that piece. ;)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 19, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
No, I don't, but I do intend to give it a spin in the near future. And I'm much more into opera lately, so there's hope for that piece. ;)
There might also be hope for
Rameau's
Les Indes galantes, then. ;)
At least the suite or at least the Rondeau pour les sauvages or whatever this is called. I would rarely listen to a complete French baroque opera but the suites are great fun.
And I really like Purcell, especially Dido and even the bizarre semi-operas with great music that has little to do with the actual action. Although I have seen an entertaining staging of King Arthur a few years ago (it was rather accidental, I visited a friend in Berlin and that was the only opera running or with affordable tickets or he had not already seen at that weekend).
Quote from: Florestan on October 19, 2022, 11:14:54 PM
There might also be hope for Rameau's Les Indes galantes, then. ;)
I find his musical aesthetics much less appealing, I'm afraid.
Well, I must have missed this topic back in January, because that was during my return to teaching, after I had tried to retire in June 2021.
I just now skimmed through all the previous pages and was pleasantly struck by the absence of three composers in the discussion:
Bartok, Scriabin, and
Stravinsky.
Certainly it is my impression that the enthusiasm for
Bartok and
Stravinsky, which I experienced in the 1960's and beyond, has waned.
Stravinsky, of course, was still alive into the 1970's and producing new works, although their reception usually included a lamentation about the malign influence of
Arnold Schoenberg and
Robert Craft on the composer!
Bartok seemed to be influential for a while, (exotic folk-scales greet a Bachian technique), but (again, it is my impression) it seems that his star has dimmed these days, although it was interesting to find this from a Chinese School of Music:
Quote
A Hungarian composer, pianist, ethnomusicologist, and teacher, Béla Bartók is considered one of the most important composers of the 20th century. Bartók represents a group of "nationalist" composers yet broadened the definition of nationalism by fusion with his own modernism. Profoundly influenced by the folk music of Hungary, Romania, and other nations, he successfully escaped traditional major/minor tonality. The use of folk materials in his compositions is very accessible to the audience, especially Chinese audiences.
Together with his like-minded contemporary Zoltán Kodály, Bartók initiated an extensive research and capture and transcribed folk and peasant melodies of Magyar, Slovak and Romanian language regions. The use of those folk materials in his works shows his contemporaries and future generations how to create a synthesis with tradition and modernism.
How do the selected works from the other composers in the festival contribute to Bartók's legacy? Kodály's music illustrates how the two contemporaries were using a very similar compositional approach yet produced two different sound sonorities: Kodály being a little more conservative than Bartók in its tonal and harmonic language. The music of his future generations shows us how those composers were "struggling" to stand on the giant's shoulders and strived to find their own voices.
https://www.tianjinjuilliard.edu.cn/news/2021/01/bartok-and-his-legacy (https://www.tianjinjuilliard.edu.cn/news/2021/01/bartok-and-his-legacy)
Scriabin influenced an array of composers from the microtonalist
Wyschnegradsky through
Protopopov and the
Tcherepnin's to
Alexander Nemtin and
Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov. Composer and former GMG member
Luke Ottevanger produced some wonderfully original works showing
Scriabin's influence.
And what has happened with
Stravinsky? In the 20th Century he vied with
Arnold Schoenberg for dominance in the world of contemporary Classical Music. Neo-Classicism was more popular with audiences. However,
Schoenberg famously was awarded a posthumous victory, when
Stravinsky began to compose with "12 notes" in the 1950's.
So, the question is: who can live without
Bartok, Scriabin, and/or
Stravinsky?
Are they really essential to our members? 0:)
Quote from: Cato on October 20, 2022, 01:09:48 PM
who can live without Bartok, Scriabin, and/or Stravinsky?
In the last two years I listened to
Scriabin once (voluntarily), to
Bartok once (involuntarily, the 2nd PC was being played on my car radio) and to
Stravinsky not at all.
QuoteAre they really essential to our members? 0:)
Not to me. Anyway, of the three I prefer
Bartok. I like early
Scriabin and
Stravinsky's
Petrushka and
L'oiseau de feu, though.
I think in the case of Stravinsky there has been a large gap between a moderate number of very popular works and the rest.
Bartok is by far my favorite 20th century composer (unless one counts Mahler) and I don't think his reputation has decreased.
Scriabin was never that popular, I believe. Even the better known piano sonatas seem more for "insiders", even compared to maybe in theory more "modern" piano music like Prokofievs. No comparison at all to Ravel or Debussy in popularity. I never got into Scriabin and could easily live without his music, but admittedly I probably just didn't spent enough time with his music (I do have the piano sonatas, some other piano works and the symphonies/tone poems).
Quote from: Cato on October 20, 2022, 01:09:48 PM
Well, I must have missed this topic back in January, because that was during my return to teaching, after I had tried to retire in June 2021.
I just now skimmed through all the previous pages and was pleasantly struck by the absence of three composers in the discussion: Bartok, Scriabin, and Stravinsky....
So, the question is: who can live without Bartok, Scriabin, and/or Stravinsky?
Are they really essential to our members? 0:)
Bartok (and Kodaly): Vital to me! I love listening to his Hungarian folk influenced music! Stravinsky: Enjoy, but don't play it often. Need to do some more explorations there. And as for Scriabin: Only have a few of his piano sonatas. Should try and explore more.
Hope that you are enjoying teaching again?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on October 21, 2022, 02:10:16 AM
Bartok (and Kodaly): Vital to me! I love listening to his Hungarian folk influenced music! Stravinsky: Enjoy, but don't play it often. Need to do some more explorations there. And as for Scriabin: Only have a few of his piano sonatas. Should try and explore more.
Hope that you are enjoying teaching again?
PD
No, I am retired from teaching again at the moment: my reference to returning to teaching above was to my resurrection in January through June of this year:
Mrs. Cato thinks that I have helped my school enough now! My successor is in fact a young lady, c. 30 years old, with a Ph.D. in Latin, who has never taught such young students, only college students!
She wrote to me a few weeks ago: "I'm sorry that I have not written earlier, but...
this job is exhausting!" 8) 0:)
Yes, cracking the whip above recalcitrant 11-13 year-old students takes energy! :D She did say that it was "a good kind of exhaustion," in that the kids are learning and seem enthusiastic enough, in general.
Yes, give
Scriabin another chance! The sonatas from #5 through 10 are the ones beloved by us
Scriabinistas! 8) The symphonies are all fascinating and show a quickly maturing voice, maturation by leaps rather than a nice upward curve.
Quote from: Jo498 on October 21, 2022, 01:50:56 AM
I think in the case of Stravinsky there has been a large gap between a moderate number of very popular works and the rest.
Bartok is by far my favorite 20th century composer (unless one counts Mahler) and I don't think his reputation has decreased.
Scriabin was never that popular, I believe. Even the better known piano sonatas seem more for "insiders", even compared to maybe in theory more "modern" piano music like Prokofiev's. No comparison at all to Ravel or Debussy in popularity. I never got into Scriabin and could easily live without his music, but admittedly I probably just didn't spent enough time with his music (I do have the piano sonatas, some other piano works and the symphonies/tone poems).
It is interesting that
THE GREAT DEBATE in 20th-century classical music centered on
Schoenberg vs. Stravinsky. Certainly you had
Bartok (and
Hindemith ) showing alternate paths, although one could say that
Bartok was a branch of Neo-Classicism (one could also, however,
not say that). 0:)
Yes, as I advised above, revisit
Scriabin's works. To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give
Scriabin a chance!" ;)
Quote from: Florestan on October 20, 2022, 11:36:00 PM
In the last two years I listened to Scriabin once (voluntarily), to Bartok once (involuntarily, the 2nd PC was being played on my car radio) and to Stravinsky not at all.
Not to me. Anyway, of the three I prefer Bartok. I like early Scriabin and Stravinsky's Petrushka and L'oiseau de feu, though.
Thanks,
Florestan! You have at least dipped your toes into the water! 8)
Quote from: Cato on October 21, 2022, 04:14:19 PM
Yes, give Scriabin another chance! The sonatas from #5 through 10 are the ones beloved by us Scriabinistas! 8) The symphonies are all fascinating and show a quickly maturing voice, maturation by leaps rather than a nice upward curve.
Yes, as I advised above, revisit Scriabin's works. To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give Scriabin a chance!" ;)
Glad that you are back at work retiring! ;)
And, boooooo!
And thank you for the suggestions; back on the list he goes!
PD
Quote from: Cato on October 21, 2022, 04:14:19 PM
To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give Scriabin a chance!" ;)
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on October 21, 2022, 07:33:50 PM
And, boooooo!
8)
I used the joke sometime ago with a different composer, and a member replied: "
Oh no! Now that won't leave my head!" ;D
I suppose it is a dangerous pun to shoot at people! ;)
Driving to work today Korngold's Violin Concerto was playing on the radio and it occurred to me that every time I've heard Korngold, including today, I've never been left wanting to hear more.
It seems like a trend that people who are much into early music don't see themselves enjoying late/post-Romantic stuff and vice versa.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 28, 2022, 10:38:50 AM
It seems like a trend that people who are much into early music don't see themselves enjoying late/post-Romantic stuff and vice versa.
The vast majority of my listening is 20th-21st century music, but if I ever turn to anything else, it tends to be early music... Gregorian chant, plainsong.... my gap is the powdered wigs and fin de siècle brigade
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 28, 2022, 01:39:55 PM
The vast majority of my listening is 20th-21st century music, but if I ever turn to anything else, it tends to be early music... Gregorian chant, plainsong.... my gap is the powdered wigs and fin de siècle brigade
There's so much great music to be enjoyed from the latter, but I understand some people might be less enthusiastic about it.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 28, 2022, 10:38:50 AM
It seems like a trend that people who are much into early music don't see themselves enjoying late/post-Romantic stuff and vice versa.
I've been listening to mostly earlyish classical in recent times, but I also love later 20th century - Messiaen and on - and, especially, Contemporary.