Hello all. I am looking for advice on the following Mega-box set. With most composers, I usually do not buy huge box sets prefering to pick performances that I like after sampling them. But with Bach, the volume of work is so enormous that collecting all his compositions has become ridiculously expensive- not to mention that I am running out of patience trying to acquire all his masterpeices. I saw the following mega-box set retailed at 99.75 euros (a little under £70) for 155 cds and was intruiged by the price- and the notion that I will never have to buy any more Bach cds. But I am reading mixed reviews about this box set and quite hoenstly I am confused. If you own this set or have heard it I would appreciate any advice you might have. I would be interested in sound quality, performances of cantatas, motets and organ works. Once again any advice you might have would be appreciated.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51488FMFAGL._SS500_.jpg)
marvin
All in all its a good set, in sound and performance. For the money its a steal.
If buying first rate performances is to expensive for you, this set will do, and in many instances more as that!
I have it myself and have never regretted buying it. In saying that, though, I have many other recordings of Bach works that i'd usually listen to before listening to the Brilliant classics version (in most cases).
For myself personally, there are two main reasons why I should have it. The first is that it is a great resource simply because you have access to every published Bach work.
Secondly, I have no other recordings of the Cantatas, which are themselves very expensive to buy as a whole.
So I say buy it. None of the recordings are at all "bad", it's just that most of them don't quite have that unique and 'involved' quality of recordings you'd usually pick out yourself.
I don't own the Brilliant Box, but I have heard many of the recordings included in the box. So I can honestly say that if I did own it, it would be sitting on the shelf for months on end. The Cantatas recordings aren't among the best, and the same goes for the organ works and most of the keyboard music as well.
I feel sorry for anyone who has only this box for his/her Bach collection.
Is the box a great resource? Not if you're more interested in wonderful performances than owning every scrap that Bach wrote.
Much of the desire to own the box seems to be based on cost. All I'll say is that great music transcends price.
Hi Marvin,
I bought this set at the beginning of the year only about 6 months after starting properly to listen to classical music, I do not know enough to make a judgement on the versions in the set, however, i'd make the following points :
Positives :
- value for money : i bought mine for £45 at the time, after a few weeks in the basket monitoring the price. at your current price, even if you end up considering that only a third of the box set is worthwile, you'll have had ended up with 50 CDs at £1.40... not bad going I guess
- availibility : I do not know your fondness/knowledge of Bach's works, but for discovery purposes, you'll have the works at hand. if you read something here about a piece and that triggers your curiosity, then it is ready there and then to be listened to. Again, i can not comment on the quality of the performances, so i guess it is mostly a matter of keeping a critical/objective approach to the listening of those CDs, bearing in mind it is not definitive (is it ever ? ;D) , then dig further on if the interest is raised with this listening.
- the complete cantatas : one of the main reason i bought it - likewise, for discovery purposes at reduced cost.
Negatives
- a few CDs i have come across have an average sound quality - not a major point for everyone, but as i listen to most of my CDs on headphones, that's something i picked up.
- a sense of "what next" : that's a disheartening point about the box in a way...i have had it for 6 months or so, and i probably haven't listened to half of it yet... sometimes, I open the box, and wonder where do i go next...and i end up going to back to Mahler !! ;D ..to be fair, i haven't clicked with the organ and the keyboard works, so those sides have been neglected, but i am at a loss sometimes of what to try and listen to... :-\
All in All, not definitive, but can serve its budget purpose rightly if that's your aim for it.
Quote from: papy on August 28, 2007, 01:00:24 PM
Hi Marvin,
I bought this set at the beginning of the year only about 6 months after starting properly to listen to classical music, I do not know enough to make a judgement on the versions in the set, however, i'd make the following points :
Positives :
- value for money : i bought mine for £45 at the time, after a few weeks in the basket monitoring the price. at your current price, even if you end up considering that only a third of the box set is worthwile, you'll have had ended up with 50 CDs at £1.40... not bad going I guess
- availibility : I do not know your fondness/knowledge of Bach's works, but for discovery purposes, you'll have the works at hand. if you read something here about a piece and that triggers your curiosity, then it is ready there and then to be listened to. Again, i can not comment on the quality of the performances, so i guess it is mostly a matter of keeping a critical/objective approach to the listening of those CDs, bearing in mind it is not definitive (is it ever ? ;D) , then dig further on if the interest is raised with this listening.
- the complete cantatas : one of the main reason i bought it - likewise, for discovery purposes at reduced cost.
Negatives
- a few CDs i have come across have an average sound quality - not a major point for everyone, but as i listen to most of my CDs on headphones, that's something i picked up.
- a sense of "what next" : that's a disheartening point about the box in a way...i have had it for 6 months or so, and i probably haven't listened to half of it yet... sometimes, I open the box, and wonder where do i go next...and i end up going to back to Mahler !! ;D ..to be fair, i haven't clicked with the organ and the keyboard works, so those sides have been neglected, but i am at a loss sometimes of what to try to... :-\
All in All, not definitive, but can serve its budget purpose rightly if that's your aim for it.
Yes, if you want all of Bach's music on the cheap in mostly acceptable performances, this box might be the way to go. Personally, I don't have the available storage space to use up on 150 okay cds. Besides, I already have many hundreds of Bach recordings, each one a few steps up from the Brilliant box offers (with little exception).
Quote from: Don on August 28, 2007, 01:06:53 PM
Yes, if you want all of Bach's music on the cheap in mostly acceptable performances, this box might be the way to go. Personally, I don't have the available storage space to use up on 150 okay cds. Besides, I already have many hundreds of Bach recordings, each one a few steps up from the Brilliant box offers (with little exception).
had I been in that situation, i probably wouldn't have cared about that set either...
Good for beginners and completists only then ;)
Quote from: papy on August 28, 2007, 01:15:31 PM
had I been in that situation, i probably wouldn't have cared about that set either...
Good for beginners and completists only then ;)
I don't know about it being good for beginners - they deserve the best also. Concerning completists, I really have no idea what the big appeal is about gigantic "complete" boxes. "Research and choose" is always the best way to go in my not-too-humble opinion.
Quote from: Don on August 28, 2007, 01:19:24 PM
I don't know about it being good for beginners - they deserve the best also. Concerning completists, I really have no idea what the big appeal is about gigantic "complete" boxes. "Research and choose" is always the best way to go in my not-too-humble opinion.
Fair points, Don, but, from a beginner's perspective, I feel the main considerations would be first finding your feet amongst the numerous composers, works, genres, in most instances at optimum/minimised costs... concern about the various versions and performances will come much later once your tastes are a bit more "settled" and defined, and making you come across a forum like this one or other classical sources to help you further your discovery.
At that time, I did buy what i feel now are very poor budget records, and have replaced them since with more "acclaimed" versions, but that didn't prevent me at the time to enjoy what i had (ignorance is bliss sometimes !) ... tastes will also evolve but at the end of the day, it is all about the enjoyment of the music, in whatever way ;)
Quote from: papy on August 28, 2007, 01:41:36 PM
Fair points, Don, but, from a beginner's perspective, I feel the main considerations would be first finding your feet amongst the numerous composers, works, genres, in most instances at optimum/minimised costs... concern about the various versions and performances will come much later once your tastes are a bit more "settled" and defined, and making you come across a forum like this one or other classical sources to help you further your discovery.
At that time, I did buy what i feel now are very poor budget records, and have replaced them since with more "acclaimed" versions, but that didn't prevent me at the time to enjoy what i had (ignorance is bliss sometimes !) ... tastes will also evolve but at the end of the day, it is all about the enjoyment of the music, in whatever way ;)
From a beginner's perspective, dropping the entire corpus of Bach's work undigested on a platter is not, in my not-so-humble opinion either, the ideal way to start with Bach. As you say yourself, you have yet to listen to half the box. If I were suggesting a good entry into Bach for someone just starting out, it might be some 12-15 CDs, including good versions each of:
- the Mass in B minor
- the St. Matthew Passion
- the Magnificat
- the Brandenburg Concertos
- the Goldberg Variations
- a good selection of organ preludes and fugues, like Peter Hurford's 2-volume set
- a good small compilation of cantatas, like the 2-CD Joshua Rifkin, except I don't like those performances or the 1-to-a-part philosophy
- the Art of Fugue.
That's a very representative assortment, you don't feel overwhelmed, and you can really get to know each piece thoroughly. I'm sure Mr. Brown has passed well beyond this, but for someone just starting I think it a good approach. I didn't own all the Bach cantatas until recently, when a sale at Berkshire (60 CDs for $240, or $4 a CD) of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set became irresistible.
(Edited to correct a horrendous grammatical error I didn't catch when switching from third to second person as I rewrote the sentence.)
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 28, 2007, 02:43:41 PM
If I were suggesting a good entry into Bach for someone just starting out, it might be some 12-15 CDs, including good versions each of:
- the Mass in B minor
- the St. Matthew Passion
- the Magnificat
- the Brandenburg Concertos
- the Goldberg Variations
- a good selection of organ preludes and fugues, like Peter Hurford's 2-volume set
- a good small compilation of cantatas, like the 2-CD Joshua Rifkin, except I don't like those performances or the 1-to-a-part philosophy
- the Art of Fugue.
The Well-Tempered Clavier? It's what got
me into Bach, before any of the above...
Quote from: Renfield on August 28, 2007, 04:10:38 PM
The Well-Tempered Clavier? It's what got me into Bach, before any of the above...
By all means. It was in the back of my mind, but I thought I had enough to start. And the Double Violin Concerto, the Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue, the Italian Concerto - it's like eating potato chips, etc.
Thank you all for responding to my inquiry, and yes Mr. Rinkel is right, I have moved beyond the beginner phase with Bach and am very familiar with the well known compositions of this fine composer- I own a few excellent recordings of Bach's masterpeices like the Pinnock Goldberg Variations and complete concertos for harpsichord, violin, oboe etc., La Petitie Band's Mass in B minor, Karajan's St. Matthew Passion, and yes the Rifkin favorite cantata set which I simply adore to name a few. I have posted this inquiry because I was looking for an easy way out, I saw the price and was intrigued, but now after reading everyone's posts I am asking myself how would I respond to recordings that are "generic"- bearing in mind that it was these fine recordings listed above that got me hooked on Bach?
marvin
These big sets have their function in assuring that you have every tidbit of Bachs works, including obcure stuff that is difficult to collect in general or would otherwise mean very large aqmounts of duplication. That is whyeI sometime buy such boxes. But that is something you buy AFTER you have a thorough knowledge of the masters major works in a range of forst class recordings.
I have the original version of the set--it's since been repackaged with a few substitutions--and overall I'm happy I bought it for a convenient reference and means of exploring, and because some of the performances are really very good. That said, much of it is also merely adequate (if that) and will need supplementing on a significant scale.
(The Brilliant complete Mozart edition, however, I can recommend enthusiastically. Not perfect, of course, but it includes a very large percentage of fine to outstanding recordings.)
Quote from: James on August 29, 2007, 06:58:43 AM
... or Pinnock on Archiv)
Yes, yes and yes again. :)
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 07:13:48 AM
Yes, yes and yes again. :)
No, no and no again. ;D He plays it like a sewing machine. I'd get Ristenpart, Collegium Aureum, or Tafelmusik.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 07:30:20 AM
He plays it like a sewing machine.
Okay, you're really going to have to expand on and explain that comment. ???
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 07:32:12 AM
Okay, you're really going to have to expand on and explain that comment. ???
Fast, metronomic. That's as far as I'm willing to go without subjecting myself to those performances again. Sowwy. :D
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 07:34:30 AM
Fast, metronomic. That's as far as I'm willing to go without subjecting myself to those performances again. Sowwy. :D
I found them invigorating - a world away from some laid-back interpretations I've heard. They sparkle, and for me, bring out the joy of the music.
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 07:36:55 AM
I found them invigorating - a world away from some laid-back interpretations I've heard. They sparkle, and for me, bring out the joy of the music.
Then we will have to agree to disagree. :)
Quote from: marvinbrown on August 29, 2007, 01:15:27 AM
and yes the Rifkin favorite cantata set which I simply adore to name a few.
The Rifkin set fills a need I can't find elsewhere, namely a compendium of several well-known cantatas. I could wish for a 4-6 CD set of the same, offering perhaps a couple of dozen of the best ones. Otherwise I know of nothing to bridge the gap between 1-CD sets and huge boxes like the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt. But the 1-voice to a part thing pretty much disqualifies Rifkin for me, even if all else is equal. There is, after all, documentary evidence that Bach wanted several singers to a part, and 1-v 1-p obliterates the distinction between choruses and solos in the cantatas. I found a 2-CD set on EMI with 80, 140, 147, and the Jesu meine Freude motet, but the performances of 80 and 140 were so dreary I couldn't keep this one.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 07:44:27 AM
There is, after all, documentary evidence that Bach wanted several singers to a part, and 1-v 1-p obliterates the distinction between choruses and solos in the cantatas. I found a 2-CD set on EMI with 80, 140, 147, and the Jesu meine Freude motet, but the performances of 80 and 140 were so dreary I couldn't keep this one.
If I am not mistaken Larry I believe Bach also wanted some of the cantatas to be performed by an all-boys choir, or so this Brilliant Bach mega-set I was inquiring about claims. Yes the Rifkin set is one voice to a part and looses out on the power derived from a choir.
marvin
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 07:36:55 AM
I found them invigorating - a world away from some laid-back interpretations I've heard. They sparkle, and for me, bring out the joy of the music.
I also find Pinnock's versions outstanding.
Quote from: marvinbrown on August 29, 2007, 10:59:19 AM
If I am not mistaken Larry I believe Bach also wanted some of the cantatas to be performed by an all-boys choir, or so this Brilliant Bach mega-set I was inquiring about claims. Yes the Rifkin set is one voice to a part and looses out on the power derived from a choir.
marvin
I don't agree, feeling that the Rifkin offers plenty of power. Microphone placement and a relatively high volume takes care of the "choir" issue for me.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 07:44:27 AM
The Rifkin set fills a need I can't find elsewhere, namely a compendium of several well-known cantatas. I could wish for a 4-6 CD set of the same, offering perhaps a couple of dozen of the best ones. Otherwise I know of nothing to bridge the gap between 1-CD sets and huge boxes like the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt.
Most of the recordings in the Koopman Cantatas series offer 3-cd sets.
Quote from: Don on August 29, 2007, 11:11:02 AM
I also find Pinnock's versions outstanding.
Y'know, Don, I ought to pay more heed to your musical tastes. I've noticed myself agreeing with you on recordings (and more) quite a bit these past few months. :)
Quote from: marvinbrown on August 29, 2007, 10:59:19 AM
If I am not mistaken Larry I believe Bach also wanted some of the cantatas to be performed by an all-boys choir, or so this Brilliant Bach mega-set I was inquiring about claims.
Bach used boys for all the treble (soprano and alto) parts. Most likely this age-old practice stems from St. Paul's prohibition against women singing in church. The Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cantata set uses boys for many of the solo arias as well, with results ranging from the "pretty good" to "ghastly shrieking" and "why are they putting the poor kid (and us) through such torture." Interestingly, even H/L break down and use women at times, for example in the bravura solo soprano cantata #51, Jauchzet Gott.
Quote from: Don on August 29, 2007, 11:15:10 AM
Most of the recordings in the Koopman Cantatas series offer 3-cd sets.
OK, but what I would like is a nice 4-6 CD set with the most popular cantatas: e.g., 4, 51, 140, 147, 198, 80, 78, 104, 65, 106, 131 (we can disagree on the selection, but you see what I mean).
Quote from: Mark on August 29, 2007, 12:21:53 PM
Y'know, Don, I ought to pay more heed to your musical tastes. I've noticed myself agreeing with you on recordings (and more) quite a bit these past few months. :)
I've noticed it also. 8)
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 12:57:35 PM
OK, but what I would like is a nice 4-6 CD set with the most popular cantatas: e.g., 4, 51, 140, 147, 198, 80, 78, 104, 65, 106, 131 (we can disagree on the selection, but you see what I mean).
Understood - well, keep wishing. Some day your dreams will come true.
Quote from: Don on August 29, 2007, 02:09:09 PM
Understood - well, keep wishing. Some day your dreams will come true.
Aw, shucks. Thanks, Don. :D
Larry,
Would you please list the recommended recordings for the list you made? I would really appreciate it.
I think the amazingly warm and dare I say 'chocolaty' sound of Pinnock's harpsichord may have something to do with his popularity, i'm nearly sure.
;)
Quote from: Anne on August 29, 2007, 02:56:24 PM
Larry,
Would you please list the recommended recordings for the list you made? I would really appreciate it.
I can only list ones I recommend, which will differ from most others here.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 12:57:35 PM
OK, but what I would like is a nice 4-6 CD set with the most popular cantatas: e.g., 4, 51, 140, 147, 198, 80, 78, 104, 65, 106, 131 (we can disagree on the selection, but you see what I mean).
Herreweghe has a couple of nifty 5 CD boxes:
This one I own. (http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Most-Beautiful-Cantatas/dp/B000034D3T/ref=sr_1_63/104-7885147-9797550?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188443720&sr=1-63)
This one I do not. (http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Cantates-f%C3%AAtes/dp/B00009YWA8/ref=sr_1_56/104-7885147-9797550?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188442344&sr=1-56)
Though shelf life seems spotty...
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on August 29, 2007, 06:28:29 PM
I can only list ones I recommend, which will differ from most others here.
Yes, your recommended ones are the ones I meant. Thank you
OK I think we have drifted off-topic a bit here. Needless to say, there seems to be a consensus against the Bach Brilliant mega-box set with GMG members preferring to collect specific recordings that please them. Fair enough, as for me I have decided at this moment in time NOT to purchase this set- the less than stellar reviews had a lot to do with my decision. As I am the originator of this post I certainly don´t mind discussion on other large box set Bach recordings should all of you wish to post accordingly. thank you all for contributing....I shall rename this thread- Bach Brilliant edition and other large box set recordings.
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on August 30, 2007, 01:02:16 PM
OK I think we have drifted off-topic a bit here.
This is nothing!
I had the set, it's too much music to absorb.
I ended up with basically a smaller selection of Bach recordings (Larry's list btw) bought seperately and I sold that big box and haven't missed it.
A few of the recordings are actually great, many of the recordings are good, and there is alot that are not anything to write home about. I like the cantatas and organ music in the set and the chamber works and the harpsichord recordings are very good, but everything else is blah. And that's alot of blah.
Quote from: marvinbrown on August 30, 2007, 01:02:16 PM
....I shall rename this thread- Bach Brilliant edition and other large box set recordings.
marvin
However, this 12 cd set is AWESOME!:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/8a/63/6913224128a0d0f3c8428010._AA240_.L.jpg)
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 03:45:29 AM
I had the set, it's too much music to absorb.
I like the cantatas and organ music in the set and the chamber works and the harpsichord recordings are very good, but everything else is blah. And that's alot of blah.
Thats the impression I got after reading everyone's responses DavidW. I am learning that the problem with very large box sets such as this one is that the recordings are never consistently good and the quantity is oftentimes too excessive to digest. For people like me who have only recently started collecting classical music perhaps it is best to collect small excellent recordings and enjoy those instead of collecting complete works of composers for the sole sake of having it all.
marvin
Quote from: Bogey on September 07, 2007, 05:07:40 PM
However, this 12 cd set is AWESOME!:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/8a/63/6913224128a0d0f3c8428010._AA240_.L.jpg)
....and I would find a way to make room for this:
http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Sacred-Cantatas-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B000000SKY/ref=sr_1_13/104-8680356-1419922?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1189215742&sr=1-13
Marvin, Bill rec'd some great recordings, but key into the too hard to digest thing. I'm now just going for Bach one cd at a time and that's about the rate that I can digest 'em. Inexpensive box sets though are still good to get, just don't feel obligated to yourself to immediately try to listen to everything in it know what I mean?
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 05:45:44 PM
Marvin, Bill rec'd some great recordings, but key into the too hard to digest thing. I'm now just going for Bach one cd at a time and that's about the rate that I can digest 'em. Inexpensive box sets though are still good to get, just don't feel obligated to yourself to immediately try to listen to everything in it know what I mean?
I line up with David here Marvin. With the Bach organ set I have sliced it thinly and still have a few discs to go with many only been spun once. Small doses work for me as well.
A cantata each Sunday, etc. But others here seem to be able to go at it in larger doses and enjoy it as well. :)
Having said the above Marvin, the Mozart and upcoming Beethoven and Haydn sets I am and would consider. As I told Gurn, even performances that may not be the "best" out there are usually still enjoyable for me when it comes to these three composers.
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 05:45:44 PM
Marvin, Bill rec'd some great recordings, but key into the too hard to digest thing. I'm now just going for Bach one cd at a time and that's about the rate that I can digest 'em. Inexpensive box sets though are still good to get, just don't feel obligated to yourself to immediately try to listen to everything in it know what I mean?
Yes I understand how overwhelming a box set of 155 cds can be to digest.
Quote from: Bogey on September 07, 2007, 07:15:06 PM
Having said the above Marvin, the Mozart and upcoming Beethoven and Haydn sets I am and would consider. As I told Gurn, even performances that may not be the "best" out there are usually still enjoyable for me when it comes to these three composers.
Yes I had a brief discussion with some GMG members a few months ago regarding the Brilliant Mozart mega-box set. It was mentioned that the recordings are overall very good but the operas lacked translated librettos- sigh- we consumers just can't win........
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 08, 2007, 04:44:18 PM
Yes I had a brief discussion with some GMG members a few months ago regarding the Brilliant Mozart mega-box set. It was mentioned that the recordings are overall very good but the operas lacked translated librettos- sigh- we consumers just can't win........
marvin
Fortunately for me Marvin I would not know a "translated libretto" if it bit me.....so, no deterrence there for me. ;D
Quote from: Bogey on September 08, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
Fortunately for me Marvin I would not know a "translated libretto" if it bit me.....so, no deterrence there for me. ;D
I'm like "yo this is what they're saying", and drop the translations in your lap.
You're like "what? I thought it was made up gibberish, and now you're telling me it's German!?" >:D
Then you're like "nah I liked it better as gibberish."
And I'm like "mee too." ;D
So what about this new Brilliant Russian "Monster"? 8)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BikZ1JaBL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.de/Russian-Legends-100-CD-Gilels-Oistrach/dp/B000T2ONOI)
Q
Quote from: Que on September 12, 2007, 11:19:32 PM
So what about this new Brilliant Russian "Monster"? 8)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BikZ1JaBL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.de/Russian-Legends-100-CD-Gilels-Oistrach/dp/B000T2ONOI)
Q
:o :o :o
Re: beginners, I think that sometimes a little too much emphasis on this forum is placed on the calibre of the performers. If someone hasn't done a great deal of listening, then Beethoven's Ninth is Beethoven's Ninth, and it doesn't matter if it's played by the Vienna Phil or the Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra. (In fact a friend of mine was recently thrilled when I gave him my recording of the Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra's recording of the complete Beethoven symphonies on Prism classis. I couldn't bear listening to it, but it's become one of his most frequent listens.)
I think that sets like this are great (I don't have the Bach, but I have the Mozart equivalent). They allow you to pick - sometimes entirely randomly - from the works of the great composers, and generally if you really enjoy a work, you can branch out and buy other recordings of the same.
It depends on the temperament of the listener, though. I've never had a problem with - if I'm in an odd mood - plunging my hand into the middle of the Mozart and seeing what comes out.
Quote from: George on September 13, 2007, 06:03:34 AM
:o :o :o
100 CD's for €83,88 on
French Amazon (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000T2ONOI/ref=olp_product_details/171-8180182-6080225?ie=UTF8&seller=)... 8)
(€1 = $1,39 and rising)
Q
Quote from: George on September 13, 2007, 06:03:34 AM
:o :o :o
OK I am going to have to agree with George on this one.
marvin
Quote from: Que on September 13, 2007, 06:37:33 AM
100 CD's for €83,88 on French Amazon (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000T2ONOI/ref=olp_product_details/171-8180182-6080225?ie=UTF8&seller=)... 8)
(€1 = $1,39 and rising)
Q
Mama mia!!! :o :o :o
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 13, 2007, 10:23:07 AM
OK I am going to have to agree with George on this one.
marvin
;D
Is this the complete Beethoven Brilliant set that we knew was coming?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Beethoven-Complete-Works-SE-100-CDs-Brilliant-Classics_W0QQitemZ280152493743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here it is for preorder at Arkive:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=173672
Quote from: Bogey on September 13, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Is this the complete Brilliant set that we knew was coming?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Beethoven-Complete-Works-SE-100-CDs-Brilliant-Classics_W0QQitemZ280152493743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting to see that an additional 15 CD's with famous historical recordings is included. (Good choices in those BTW)
Q
Quote from: Que on September 13, 2007, 07:39:48 PM
Interesting to see that an additional 15 CD's with famous historical recordings is included. (Good choices in those BTW)
Q
Looks as though it will be about $140....Amazon does not have it yet.
Quote from: Bogey on September 13, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Is this the complete Beethoven Brilliant set that we knew was coming?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Beethoven-Complete-Works-SE-100-CDs-Brilliant-Classics_W0QQitemZ280152493743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Yes it is Bill. :)
And the show goes on with....
Complete keyboard sonatas of Domenico Scarlatti by Pieter-Jan Belder (36 CD's)
(http://records.joanrecords.com/ProductImages/93546.jpg)
Spotted on Amazon.fr/.de, jpc and some British retailers (who charge an astronomical amount in comparison - so avoid! :o).
Q
Where does one find the Russian Edition? How much does it cost?
Quote from: Que on September 13, 2007, 06:37:33 AM
100 CD's for €83,88 on French Amazon (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000T2ONOI/ref=olp_product_details/171-8180182-6080225?ie=UTF8&seller=)... 8)
(€1 = $1,39 and rising)
Q
Also on other European amazons, and other European sources for more (money).
Q
Quote from: Que on September 14, 2007, 08:31:47 AM
Also on other European amazons, and other European sources for more (money).
Q
Thanks, Que. I had missed your reply previously.
On the Russian megabox set I was looking for music by Russian composers. That is not the case. Russian musicians are the reason for the title "Russian."
Quote from: premont on September 20, 2007, 11:22:51 AM
And it was indeed your insistent recommandation, which prompted me to investigate Belders Scarlatti. Thanks.
You are very welcome my friend. :)
I recently ordered this:
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/db/0/AAAAAnY6rQ0AAAAAANsD9g.jpg?v=1204870517000)
from Amazon France for 38 Euro. I don't know much about it but here (http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/article/803050089) is a partial track listing and it looks interesting, defnitely some new music.
Anyone has it and care to comment?
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 24, 2008, 12:40:00 PM
I recently ordered this:
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/db/0/AAAAAnY6rQ0AAAAAANsD9g.jpg?v=1204870517000)
from Amazon France for 38 Euro. I don't know much about it but here (http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/article/803050089) is a partial track listing and it looks interesting, defnitely some new music.
Anyone has it and care to comment?
Well, I don't have it but I have to admit it looks tempting. So does this box set from FRENCH Harmonia Mundi--slightly fewer CDs but an interesting selection, too:
http://www.amazon.com/Anniversary-Harmonia-Mundi-Various-Artists/dp/B000VIFM1S/ref=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music
Too many sets...too little time...
;D
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on April 24, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
Well, I don't have it but I have to admit it looks tempting. So does this box set from FRENCH Harmonia Mundi--slightly fewer CDs but an interesting selection, too:
http://www.amazon.com/Anniversary-Harmonia-Mundi-Various-Artists/dp/B000VIFM1S/ref=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music
Too many sets...too little time...
;D
Dirk
Yeah I have that one also. It is definitely worth the $50. I haven't listened to all of it yet but what I have listened to: the Schubert Fantasy, the Biber Violin works, the Bach St. Matthew Passion, and the Mozart "Prague" Symphony conducted by Rene Jacobs, are stunning.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 24, 2008, 12:59:46 PM
Yeah I have that one also. It is definitely worth the $50.
FIFTY BUCKS!! Where did you find it for only $50? Best I see here (US Amazon) is $79 and change. What a bargain you got!
Dirk
Look at this heifer.
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/73/1006173.jpg)
Quote from: dirkronk on April 24, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
FIFTY BUCKS!! Where did you find it for only $50? Best I see here (US Amazon) is $79 and change. What a bargain you got!
Dirk
I got it from Caiman last December. It seems to be in and out of circulation at Amazon. I didn't shop around really but that was the price for at least a couple of months I think.
This is an old thread but I thought I'd throw in my two novice thumbs up for Brilliant's complete Bach set. I've thoroughly enjoyed the complete Mozart (of what I've listened to) and figured this would be a good investment. While I understand why more experienced listeners would pass on these sets, for casual listeners like myself I think they're a great buy. I'm no audiophile so the sound quality is fine for me, and I can't really tell the difference between recordings of the same piece so that's not an issue either. Maybe someday I'll need to upgrade certain pieces but that day would be in the distant future. The set is 99$ at Tower Records (shipping included) so I would definitely recommend it to any casual or new listener who's on the fence about it. I'm already planning on the Beethoven set (101$ at Tower) for November.
Ryan
Quote from: Que on September 13, 2007, 06:37:33 AM
100 CD's for €83,88 on French Amazon (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000T2ONOI/ref=olp_product_details/171-8180182-6080225?ie=UTF8&seller=)... 8)
(€1 = $1,39 and rising)
Q
The price of the Brilliant Bach, Mozart and Beethoven sets is now below 50 euro each at a number of European sites, and under 80 euro for the Haydn set (not "complete" but impressive nonetheless). At that price, how can you not take a flier? The Bach set was the first to arrive, and so far I must say it is pretty darn good. I've only sampled a handful of the cantatas, but everything I have heard so far is very beautifully sung and recorded. The orchestra used for the cantatas is obviously a pickup band, and while the playing is quite competent you do get the feeling that the musicians were sight-reading. You don't get that marvelous driving energy in the melodic or counterpuntal lines that marks a top-tier Bach performance. I have all the cantatas that Suzuki and Herreweghe have recorded so far, and those are absolutely spectacular - not a bad disk in the bunch. I also have a smattering of Gardiner's old and new recordings, which are also quite good. In comparison, the few disks I've heard from the Brilliant set are more intimate, miked closer with less ambience from the hall. I actually like this sound a lot. These are less majestic and other-worldly than Herreweghe. To put it positively, these are earthy performances. But having said that, they are quite enjoyable, and for the price it's a no-brainer. As a set to take to the office or as Christmas presents, this is a killer package. I'm looking forward to the arrival of the Mozart and Haydn. Then all I need is a couple of years to plow through it all ...
My favorite box is the Sony issue of Stravinsky--I bought it for about $28 for I think 22 cds..absolutely essential stuff, one of great musical and historical importance!
Also bought the Beethoven box by Sony...60 discs for something like 27 bucks...a real good deal and some decent performnces.
For the most part, these boxes are real steals but you'll never get 100% great performances...never..
I'm considering buying this, is it any good?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qF92iXXzL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Complete-Works-155CD-Box/dp/B000GCG8Y4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1252875435&sr=8-2)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Complete-Works-155CD-Box/dp/B000GCG8Y4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1252875435&sr=8-2
If you like HIP the cantatas and orchestral works are sure to please and are recent in great sound. The vocal works are older traditional recordings, conservative approach, pretty good sounding but a little muddy. Can do way better.
The keyboard works are performed on harpsichord, and the two performers there have been bettered but they are pretty darned good. I can say the same about the recordings of the organ works.
I think that overall it's consistently good, but not great. You can do a hell of alot better, but at that price point? No way.
If you're getting it for the cantatas, you should know that the singing has no passion whatsoever.
For any other category there are better box sets at bargain price. If you want to hear ALL of Bach and you're on a budget get this set. But there are alternatives if that's not what you want. :)
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 02:25:59 PM
If you're getting it for the cantatas, you should know that the singing has no passion whatsoever.
For any other category there are better box sets at bargain price. If you want to hear ALL of Bach and you're on a budget get this set. But there are alternatives if that's not what you want. :)
Have you got any recommendations?
I have the impression that Karl Richter is particularly good for his Bach, is that right?
Quote from: Papageno on September 13, 2009, 02:31:16 PM
Have you got any recommendations?
I have the impression that Karl Richter is particularly good for his Bach, is that right?
I love Richter, unless you demand HIP, try the Richter box set for the vocal works. He is traditional, but not overly romanticized; he is proto-HIP in style. If you like that style, then Leonhardt/Harnoncourt's old cycle at bargain price, or Rilling's cycle at mid-price are for you for the cantatas. Rilling is basically the modern Richter. :)
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 02:25:59 PM
If you're getting it for the cantatas, you should know that the singing has no passion whatsoever.
I have the set and feel that the quality of singing is somewhat uneven. I think Ruth Holton stands out among the female soloists. Holton has also been engaged by Gardiner in a number of his previous recordings. All in all, it is a reasonable set for the money.
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 02:39:41 PM
I love Richter, unless you demand HIP, try the Richter box set for the vocal works. He is traditional, but not overly romanticized; he is proto-HIP in style. If you like that style, then Leonhardt/Harnoncourt's old cycle at bargain price, or Rilling's cycle at mid-price are for you for the cantatas. Rilling is basically the modern Richter. :)
I have the Richter's Brandenburg Concertos on DVD. To consider Richter as totally non-HIP is definitely wrong, as I noticed he scaled the size of his ensemble according to the concertos. In fact, he did not have the full Munich Bach Orchestra performed the entire Brandenburg Concertos. For Concerto No. 6, he actually had no more than 6 or 7 players while he conducted from the harpsichord.
Quote from: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 03:23:19 PM
I have the Richter's Brandenburg Concertos on DVD. To consider Richter as totally non-HIP is definitely wrong, as I noticed he scaled the size of his ensemble according to the concertos. In fact, he did not have the full Munich Bach Orchestra performed the entire Brandenburg Concertos. For Concerto No. 6, he actually had no more than 6 or 7 players while he conducted from the harpsichord.
Well that's why I said proto-HIP and not non-HIP. :D I was trying to suggest that he was one of the first (of our century) to try to play Bach as if he lived in the 18th century and not the 19th century. :)
Hi Papageno - I'm not sure 'how much' JS Bach you own currently? But Papa Bach wrote tons of varied instrumental and vocal music, so if you do not want to just buy a HUGE box of discs (many of which you may not enjoy or want), then maybe you should give the forum members some idea on what you may want to hear from this composer?
There are plenty of 'bargain' offerings out there in JS Bach, so please provide some information on your preferences - plenty of recommendations should follow - :D
Quote from: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 03:23:19 PM
I have the Richter's Brandenburg Concertos on DVD. To consider Richter as totally non-HIP is definitely wrong, as I noticed he scaled the size of his ensemble according to the concertos. In fact, he did not have the full Munich Bach Orchestra performed the entire Brandenburg Concertos. For Concerto No. 6, he actually had no more than 6 or 7 players while he conducted from the harpsichord.
I have that, is it not a good performance - because I enjoy it.
SonicMan I'm particularly obsessed with his
Matthäus Passion,
Mass in C minor, not crazy about his Johannes Passion, - all with Richter. And Die Kunst der Fuge
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 03:52:19 PM
Well that's why I said proto-HIP and not non-HIP. :D I was trying to suggest that he was one of the first (of our century) to try to play Bach as if he lived in the 18th century and not the 19th century. :)
Karajan was definitely non-HIP, as I believe he had the full BPO performed Brandenburg Concertos. The same was probably true for Klemperer, if he indeed recorded at least part of the Brandenburg Concertos.
Quote from: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 04:35:29 PM
Karajan was definitely non-HIP, as I believe he had the full BPO performed Brandenburg Concertos. The same was probably true for Klemperer, if he indeed recorded at least part of the Brandenburg Concertos.
Klemperer was probably the first to perform the Sixth Brandenburg one player per part, as far as I know in the early 1930es with Paul Hindemith on first solo viol and Klemperer himself leading from the harpsichord (!).
He recorded the Brandenburg´s twice. In the late 1940es for Vox with assorted soloists from France, and in the early 1960es for EMI with a selected ensemble from the Philharmonia Orchestra. There is no reference to the scoring in the booklets, but judged by the sound small forces are used in both recordings, probably about the size of Richters orchestra except in Concerto no. six (!), which is performed as a kind of Concerto Grosso with a solo trio (two viols and one violoncello) and a rather small ripieno.
Quote from: premont on September 13, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Klemperer was probably the first to perform the Sixth Brandenburg one player per part, as far as I know in the early 1930es with Paul Hindemith on first solo viol and Klemperer himself leading from the harpsichord (!).
He recorded the Brandenburg´s twice. In the late 1940es for Vox with assorted soloists from France, and in the early 1960es for EMI with a selected ensemble from the Philharmonia Orchestra. There is no reference to the scoring in the booklets, but judged by the sound small forces are used in both recordings, probably about the size of Richters orchestra except in Concerto no. six (!), which is performed as a kind of Concerto Grosso with a solo trio (two viols and one violoncello) and a rather small ripieno.
So Klemperer was partially HIP. I believe Furtwangler recorded some of the Brandenburg Concertos as well.
Quote from: Papageno on September 13, 2009, 04:20:18 PM
I have that, is it not a good performance - because I enjoy it.
???
Quote from: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 05:11:07 PM
So Klemperer was partially HIP. I believe Furtwangler recorded some of the Brandenburg Concertos as well.
I have not heard Furtwängler´s Brandenburgs (he only recorded nos. 3 and 5, himself playing the piano(!) solo in no. 5. From the description of the recording (in Bruce Haynes´:The end of early music) the interpretation is overly romantic, as I would expect.
Sorry, I think I'm missing something, is HIP some music terminology, or is it hip, synonym to fashionable.
I'll look for the Klemperer Brandenburg, does anyone know of a torrent available?
Quote from: Papageno on September 13, 2009, 05:22:19 PM
Sorry, I think I'm missing something, is HIP some music terminology, or is it hip, synonym to fashionable.
I'll look for the Klemperer Brandenburg, does anyone know of a torrent available?
HIP=Historically Informed Performance, I prefer Haynes name "period style" since it's considerably less pretentious! :D
The idea is that musicians try to emulate the style in which music was played at that time, and sometimes play on period instruments. What they strive for
(a) selective vibrato (instead of continuous)
(b) emphasis on rhythmic nuances, not all instruments play at the same beat like the orchestra was following a metronome
(c) short phrasing (instead of legato)
(d) ornamentation (i.e. trills)
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 02:25:59 PM
If you're getting it for the cantatas, you should know that the singing has no passion whatsoever.
Cannot have that. It would come across as Richterish! >:D
ducks head to avoid being hit with a dead armadillo
Quote from: Bogey on September 13, 2009, 05:31:21 PM
Cannot have that. It would come across as Richterish! >:D ducks head to avoid being hit with a dead armadillo
Or maybe I'll just hurl a yellow tie at you! ;D
Quote from: DavidW on September 13, 2009, 05:27:41 PM
HIP=Historically Informed Performance, I prefer Haynes name "period style" since it's considerably less pretentious! :D
The idea is that musicians try to emulate the style in which music was played at that time, and sometimes play on period instruments. What they strive for
(a) selective vibrato (instead of continuous)
(b) emphasis on rhythmic nuances, not all instruments play at the same beat like the orchestra was following a metronome
(c) short phrasing (instead of legato)
(d) ornamentation (i.e. trills)
Ah, a period performance then.
Thank you for the explanation.
Quote from: premont on September 13, 2009, 05:17:35 PM
I have not heard Furtwängler´s Brandenburgs (he only recorded nos. 3 and 5, himself playing the piano(!) solo in no. 5. From the description of the recording (in Bruce Haynes´:The end of early music) the interpretation is overly romantic, as I would expect.
I think overly romantic performance has always been a problem with the Brandenburg Concertos performed by a big orchestra ...
Quote from: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 06:45:08 PM
I think overly romantic performance has always been a problem with the Brandenburg Concertos performed by a big orchestra ...
To play such musical works with big orchestras is - per se - a romantic idea.