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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Oldnslow on February 03, 2022, 12:52:15 PM

Title: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Oldnslow on February 03, 2022, 12:52:15 PM
There are some famous incompleted sonata cycles by pianists who died too soon (Gilels, Solomon, Hungerford, and likely Gieseking) but there are a couple of present day cycles that do not appear to be on track for completion. One is James Brawn who is up to 6 volumes but has not released anything further for three years, and the other is Igor Tchetuev, who also released 6 volumes on Caro Mitis but nothing else for years. I especially like the Tchetuev set and wonder what happened to this guy. Does anyone know if he is still alive and active? Even if Caro Mitis ( Russian label) folded I would think he would complete his cycle. After all, Jonathan Biss went through three different labels before finishing his cycle. Can anyone help? 
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: MusicTurner on February 03, 2022, 01:07:11 PM
Some quick research seems to indicate that the Russian Caro Mitis label, which did Tchetuev's first 6 volumes, hasn't released any new CDs since 2013 ...
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: MusicTurner on February 03, 2022, 01:12:49 PM
He also has a personal site (?), tchetuev.com

Last concerts in the calendar section are from October 2014. But he performed in Eastbourne in 2020, Tchaikovsky concerto/LPO, and from late 2021 he has  been a professor in Lausanne.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Oldnslow on February 03, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
Thanks. It sure looks like he is still active, though no recordings for years. I thought the Caro Mitis performances were wonderful in absolutely spectacular sound
(Dutch engineers recorded in Russia). I also enjoyed the James Brawn series too (MSR) but zilch out of him for quite sometime. For now I'm enjoying Schnabel from 1932 on Musical Concepts--very fine--kinda like the great Earl Hines jazz pianist, he of the sloppy runs!)
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Jo498 on February 03, 2022, 11:19:06 PM
Cannot comment on any of the more recent/ongoing cycles but my favorite partial LvB sonata cycle (about 18 sonatas) is Bruno Leonardo Gelber's on Denon as I probably proclaimed in every other Beethoven sonata thread here...
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Que on February 04, 2022, 12:34:48 AM
Quote from: Oldnslow on February 03, 2022, 12:52:15 PM
and the other is Igor Tchetuev, who also released 6 volumes on Caro Mitis but nothing else for years. I especially like the Tchetuev set and wonder what happened to this guy. Does anyone know if he is still alive and active? Even if Caro Mitis ( Russian label) folded I would think he would complete his cycle.

Because of interest in the label and its high standards I stumbled upon these Beethoven recordings by Tchetuev, and was - like you - highly impressed! Would be nice if these would resurface and the cycle would be finished.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Holden on February 04, 2022, 06:43:33 PM
Of the partial cycles there are ones that people would most definitely like to have seen completed and some have been mentioned above.

Richter played and recorded 22 of them. He kept a note of all his concerts and there is no record of him playing any of the missing ten at any time. Of course, Richter being Richter, we were never going to get them were we? He probably didn't like them enough to try them.

The most tragic of the uncompleted cycles is that of the above mentioned Bruce Hungerford. He recorded 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 24, 25, 30, 31 and 32 (22 of them like Richter). Of all the incomplete cycles this is the most tragic IMO. What he has recorded i the above list are all universally excellent and if he had completed them I suspect that this would have been rated as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) cycles of all time. On the day of his death in a tragic car accident in New York, when friends and relatives went back to his apartment, sitting on the sheet music stand at his piano was the Hammerklavier.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Oldnslow on February 04, 2022, 07:12:09 PM
Very sad indeed about Hungerford. Solomon was the other set I would most liked to have seen  completed
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Jo498 on February 05, 2022, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: Holden on February 04, 2022, 06:43:33 PM
Richter played and recorded 22 of them. He kept a note of all his concerts and there is no record of him playing any of the missing ten at any time. Of course, Richter being Richter, we were never going to get them were we? He probably didn't like them enough to try them.
Yes, Richter just didn't play some pieces, therefore I don't really count his Beethoven sonatas as "incomplete cycle". Technically true, it was never intended to be complete and the incompleteness was not due to illness, death or bad sales.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Que on February 05, 2022, 02:49:51 AM
Quote from: Oldnslow on February 04, 2022, 07:12:09 PM
Solomon was the other set I would most liked to have seen  completed

Yes! 

And Paul Komen (Globe). But for him it is not too late to redo an entire cycle.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Todd on February 05, 2022, 01:20:54 PM
Muriel Chemin's cycle was never completed, and Letizia Michielon may or may not finish hers. 
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Spotted Horses on February 06, 2022, 05:26:31 AM
Angela Hewitt has completed her cycle, despite the untimely death of her favorite Piano.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Ras on February 07, 2022, 11:04:11 AM
Do like Joyce Hatto: if you can't finish your cycle let your husband do it with his magic sound marker  >:D ;)
And why stop at Beethoven? There are so many composers you can "un-finish".
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Holden on February 19, 2022, 01:28:25 PM
Quote from: Oldnslow on February 04, 2022, 07:12:09 PM
Very sad indeed about Hungerford. Solomon was the other set I would most liked to have seen  completed

+1
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: staxomega on February 19, 2022, 01:42:32 PM
I should revisit Solomon in the Hammerklavier, it has been way too long and I can't remember anything about it.

Rudolf Serkin would have been my wish to have a completed cycle.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Jo498 on February 20, 2022, 12:47:36 AM
to be honest, I found the recordings by Serkin collected in that "white" Sony box mostly lackluster, once he goes beyond the ones had recorded several times, beginning in the 1940s (such as op.13 which is great, op.57, the four last ones and maybe Waldstein and Les Adieux). It doesn't help that for the abandoned? idea to record the lot around in the late 1960s he recorded mostly sonatas I don't much care about anyway but they aren't "saved" by Serkin. Nevertheless, it would be nice to have some he didn't record, such as op.2/3 or the "Tempest" or several others because when Serkin is "on" as in his better recordings, he is a formidable Beethoven player.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: staxomega on February 20, 2022, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on February 20, 2022, 12:47:36 AM
to be honest, I found the recordings by Serkin collected in that "white" Sony box mostly lackluster, once he goes beyond the ones had recorded several times, beginning in the 1940s (such as op.13 which is great, op.57, the four last ones and maybe Waldstein and Les Adieux). It doesn't help that for the abandoned? idea to record the lot around in the late 1960s he recorded mostly sonatas I don't much care about anyway but they aren't "saved" by Serkin. Nevertheless, it would be nice to have some he didn't record, such as op.2/3 or the "Tempest" or several others because when Serkin is "on" as in his better recordings, he is a formidable Beethoven player.

If you mean his playing, then he is in line with other highly regarded pianists like Annie Fischer; in that they are just on the cusp of being capable of playing them at a high level but (for me) more often saved by their interpretations which keep them among my favorites. I don't have the white box, the one noteworthy sonata that might be missing from it is his 1960 recording of op. 110, this is one of my real highlights from him.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81jI1y4fP4L._SL500_.jpg)

His 1950s recording of the Waldstein is also one of my favorites for it.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Holden on February 20, 2022, 06:38:53 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzMjIyNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)

This is the best Beethoven by Serkin that I've heard and the Waldstein in this set is in my top 3 performances
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Hans Holbein on February 20, 2022, 07:43:04 PM
I was recently thinking about Alexei Lubimov and it seemed to me that he had made quite a few sonata recordings, spread across many years and many labels, so I decided to tally them up out of curiosity. Turns out he has released 19 individual sonata recordings, but of only 12 different sonatas. He has made four recordings of the Moonlight, for example. And there are a few other repeats. These are the sonatas he has recorded, and the labels they have appeared on.

1 - Moscow Conservatory
5 - Moscow Conservatory
6 - Moscow Conservatory
7 - Moscow Conservatory
8 - Moscow Conservatory / Erato
14 - Moscow Conservatory / Chopin Institute / Alpha / Erato
17 - Alpha
19 - Moscow Conservatory
21 - Moscow Conservatory / Alpha / Erato
30 - Moscow Conservatory / Zig Zag
31 - Zig Zag
32 - Zig Zag
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Jo498 on February 21, 2022, 12:46:09 AM
The 1960 op.110 is in the white box (the only sonata included twice).
I had and got rid of the M&A 2-CD-set because I found them in mediocre sound and not that much better (although probably both op.13 and 53 are a bit better than the later stereo) to keep around.

As I said, Serkin is good in a bunch of them (although I probably never like him as much as some others here) but rather lackluster/pedestrian in others, so it's hard to tell if a complete set would have included enough of the former to be worth it.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Oldnslow on February 21, 2022, 03:45:57 PM
Just re-listened to Hungerford's recordings on the Piano Classics set. Just wonderful and I agree if he had completed the set he would be in the top tier IMHO
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 10, 2022, 03:33:36 PM
For consideration in this thread:

I don't suppose no list of "incomplete cycles" could really be complete (unless it listed every recording of what... any two sonatas? ever made?), but this is an attempt:



Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
The Great Incomplete Cycles

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYQWtbpDv9Q/UPQjw3NPXEI/AAAAAAAAFro/1OCHnnTJ3H8/s1600/Beethoven_basic_laurson_600.jpg)
https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/07/beethoven-sonatas-survey-of-complete.html (https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/07/beethoven-sonatas-survey-of-complete.html)
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Todd on December 10, 2022, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 10, 2022, 03:33:36 PMI don't suppose no list of "incomplete cycles" could really be complete (unless it listed every recording of what... any two sonatas? ever made?), but this is an attempt:

I'd set the threshold at 16 sonatas.

Incidentally, the upcoming complete Gieseking edition should have newly remastered versions of all the LvB sonatas for EMI.  Combined with the radio set, and it's nearly complete.
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 10, 2022, 04:40:07 PM
Quote from: Todd on December 10, 2022, 03:44:09 PMI'd set the threshold at 16 sonatas.

You're more generous than I was, taking 9 as the cut-off.

Quote from: Todd on December 10, 2022, 03:44:09 PMIncidentally, the upcoming complete Gieseking edition should have newly remastered versions of all the LvB sonatas for EMI.  Combined with the radio set, and it's nearly complete.


Uh! Juicy news!
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: George on September 12, 2023, 07:30:30 AM
Pianists I wish did a whole cycle:

Ivan Moravec
Rudolf Serkin
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Todd on September 12, 2023, 07:47:26 AM
Quote from: George on September 12, 2023, 07:30:30 AMPianists I wish did a whole cycle:

Ivan Moravec
Rudolf Serkin

I agree with that.  The problem with wish lists is that they can grow and grow.  I mean, what about Lamond, Richter, Cortot (who purportedly did complete a cycle), Kempff's pre-war near-cycle, Foldes, Gelber, etc.

And then there are all those slacker pianists of today who should but have not yet recorded cycles . . .
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: prémont on September 12, 2023, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: George on September 12, 2023, 07:30:30 AMPianists I wish did a whole cycle:

Ivan Moravec
Rudolf Serkin

Let me add

Paul Koomen
Solomon
Bruce Hungerford
Jörg Demus
Emil Gilels
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: George on September 12, 2023, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Todd on September 12, 2023, 07:47:26 AMI agree with that.  The problem with wish lists is that they can grow and grow.  I mean, what about Lamond, Richter, Cortot (who purportedly did complete a cycle), Kempff's pre-war near-cycle, Foldes, Gelber, etc.

Sure, I was just naming the two that were at the top of my list. Richter (in his prime years) would be right up there too. If I could only pick one though, it would surely be Moravec.   
Title: Re: Partial Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycles
Post by: Todd on September 12, 2023, 08:56:05 AM
Quote from: George on September 12, 2023, 08:00:42 AMSure, I was just naming the two that were at the top of my list. Richter (in his prime years) would be right up there too. If I could only pick one though, it would surely be Moravec.   

A tough call on that, but I'd probably go Richter.  At least today.