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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => The Polling Station => Topic started by: vers la flamme on March 09, 2022, 04:43:36 PM

Title: 8th symphonies
Post by: vers la flamme on March 09, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
What are your favorites?

Schubert's 8th (the Unfinished, which will always be No.8 for me, despite that the 7th doesn't exist, per se)
Dvorák's 8th
Mahler's 8th

Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: André on March 09, 2022, 04:53:01 PM
Bruckner
Shostakovich

But also Dvorak, as well as those already mentioned.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Symphonic Addict on March 09, 2022, 05:17:46 PM
Shostakovich
Dvorak
Holmboe Sinfonia boreale

Glazunov
Atterberg
Vaughan Williams
Schuman
Simpson
Soderlind
Bruckner
Lloyd
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Holden on March 09, 2022, 05:20:26 PM
Shostakovich
Schubert
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Brian on March 09, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
Top two: Dvorak and, sure, I'll be the first to say it, Beethoven.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 09, 2022, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
Top two: Dvorak and, sure, I'll be the first to say it, Beethoven.

I was afraid no one would . . . .  ;D
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 09, 2022, 06:53:39 PM
Beethoven, Shostakovich, Bruckner. Not Mahler.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2022, 12:24:21 AM
Vaughan Williams
Rautavaara 'The Journey'
Soderlind 'In Memory of Jean Sibelius'
Glazunov
Shostakovich
Bruckner
Schubert
Rubbra
Vagn Holmboe
Atterberg

+ Dvorak (my favourite of his works)
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Madiel on March 10, 2022, 12:37:09 AM
A top number for Beethoven, Dvorak and Holmboe.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Biffo on March 10, 2022, 01:17:13 AM
Favourite 8ths

Dvorak
Beethoven
Vaughan Williams
Schubert Unfinished

Honourable mentions - Bruckner, Shostakovich - my feelings about them fluctuate

Mahler 8 is my least favourite of his symphonies

Cheating, Sibelius 7 if you include Kullervo

Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Maestro267 on March 10, 2022, 05:28:50 AM
Mahler
Shostakovich
Lajtha
Brian
Villa-Lobos
Vaughan Williams
Simpson
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Brahmsian on March 10, 2022, 05:31:08 AM
Bruckner
Dvořák
Schubert (Unfinished)
Shostakovich
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 10, 2022, 05:34:16 AM
Quote from: André on March 09, 2022, 04:53:01 PM
Bruckner
Shostakovich

But also Dvorak, as well as those already mentioned.

couldn't agree more! +++1
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 10, 2022, 05:54:40 AM
Shostakovich & Bruckner tie for the greatest 8th.

And tied for second place...

Haydn
Schubert
Schinttke
Glass
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Mirror Image on March 10, 2022, 06:27:24 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 10, 2022, 05:54:40 AM
Shostakovich & Bruckner tie for the greatest 8th.

And tied for second place...

Haydn
Schubert
Schinttke
Glass

Oh shit! I forgot Schnittke! :o ;D
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Mirror Image on March 10, 2022, 06:28:51 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2022, 06:17:23 PM
Mahler, Shostakovich, Bruckner and Dvořák came immediately to my mind.

Updated list: Mahler, Bruckner, Shostakovich, Dvořák, Vaughan Williams, Schnittke and Pettersson.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Brian on March 10, 2022, 06:29:23 AM
I agree on Schubert, but I disagree on which symphony it is. I'm a millennial so No. 8 is in C major and finished.  0:)
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Todd on March 10, 2022, 06:45:56 AM
Bruckner
Beethoven
Dvorak
Haydn
Schubert (either/both)
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 10, 2022, 07:38:44 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 10, 2022, 06:29:23 AM
I agree on Schubert, but I disagree on which symphony it is. I'm a millennial so No. 8 is in C major and finished.  0:)

For me the C major is the 9th, and the B minor is the 8th and always has been/will be. However I think the first movement more compelling than the Andante.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Brian on March 10, 2022, 07:45:11 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 10, 2022, 07:38:44 AM
For me the C major is the 9th, and the B minor is the 8th and always has been/will be. However I think the first movement more compelling than the Andante.
It is interesting to me which composers' symphonies get renumbered and which don't. As recently as 1960ish, Dvorak's Symphony No. 8 was still called No. 4 and No. 9 occasionally known to many as No. 5. (Yesterday I listened to a Szell/Cleveland "No. 4" that was released in 1958.) That got fixed to the universal agreement of all the musical world. Meanwhile, we've known for years that Mendelssohn's symphonies are out of order, but we're not bothered enough to swap them around, even though all the out-of-order pieces have convenient nicknames.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Maestro267 on March 10, 2022, 08:55:59 AM
And there are also 13 symphonies for strings alone to contend with as far as Mendelssohn is concerned. Should we include those in the official canon to give him a final total of 18?
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: LKB on March 10, 2022, 09:45:30 AM
1) Mahler. Every conceivable orchestral and choral texture is present, multiple soloists, a titanic conclusion which boggles the senses...

2) Bruckner. Deeply felt, utterly committed, a final coda that banishes darkness with God's own thundering certainty.

3) Dvorak, which I've played. Particularly the smiling third movement, like the summer sun on a face which sorely needs it.

4) Shostakovich. While l get a little impatient with the first movement and sometimes find it hard to take the second seriously, l find the dogged, frantic third movement oddly hypnotic. As for the Passacaglia, l believe it to be one of his most effective symphonic efforts. Towards the end a wandering, seemingly aimless clarinet solo turns into a clock with no hands, alternating half-steps which disappear into the strings, and then emerges to join with another clarinet long enough to lead us from the long night of g-sharp minor into the C Major dawn of the final movement. Splendid composing.

5) Beethoven. An affectionate salute to his Classical origins, with a few innovations thrown in.

6) Schubert, which I've also played. The ruminating clarinet and oboe soloes in the second movement are more challenging than it may seem, and I was happy to achieve a positive result on the latter.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Madiel on March 10, 2022, 11:07:27 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 10, 2022, 07:45:11 AM
It is interesting to me which composers' symphonies get renumbered and which don't. As recently as 1960ish, Dvorak's Symphony No. 8 was still called No. 4 and No. 9 occasionally known to many as No. 5. (Yesterday I listened to a Szell/Cleveland "No. 4" that was released in 1958.) That got fixed to the universal agreement of all the musical world. Meanwhile, we've known for years that Mendelssohn's symphonies are out of order, but we're not bothered enough to swap them around, even though all the out-of-order pieces have convenient nicknames.

Because out of order is less of a problem than having the wrong quantity entirely.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: foxandpeng on March 10, 2022, 11:24:34 AM
Emil Tabakov
Vagn Holmboe
Robert Simpson
Allan Pettersson
Einojuhani Rautavaara
RVW
Eduard Tubin
Anton Bruckner
Alexander Glazunov
Per Nørgård

Attempted to keep 10 only. Arnold, Sallinen, DSCH,  Rosenberg, Pavlova, Rubbra, Brian all knocking at the door.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2022, 11:28:07 AM
+1 for Pettersson (one of his best with 6 and 7 IMO) and Schnittke (thank you MI).
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Mirror Image on March 10, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 10, 2022, 11:28:07 AM
+1 for Pettersson (one of his best with 6 and 7 IMO) and Schnittke (thank you MI).

No problem, Jeffrey. We're certainly on the same page in regards to Pettersson and Schnittke.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 10, 2022, 02:46:47 PM
The six Leaders of the Pack (vroom, vroom)

Havergal Brian
Vaughan Williams
Beethoven
Dvořák
Bruckner
Mahler
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Holden on March 10, 2022, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Brian on March 10, 2022, 06:29:23 AM
I agree on Schubert, but I disagree on which symphony it is. I'm a millennial so No. 8 is in C major and finished.  0:)

That was my assumption as well.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Jo498 on March 11, 2022, 03:25:11 AM
The Schubert symphonies did get re-numbered but almost everyone above a certain age got to know them in a different numbering, so the old one will stick for some time. But it could be that in 30-50 years, referring to the b minor Unfinished as #8 would be as odd as referring to Dvorak's "New world" as #5.

The numbers of the (non-string) Mendelssohn symphonies reflect the order of eventual publication (with "4" (Italian)+ "5" (Reformation) only getting published posthumuously). I am against renumbering here because it would only produce confusion (there are good reasons to keep the string symphonies out of the numbering and also the #2 that would be removed and only classified as a cantata/choral piece)l. A good option would be not to use the numbers at all but only key, nickname (all but #1 have one) or opus number.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: vandermolen on March 11, 2022, 04:15:05 AM
How could I forget HB? Possibly his greatest symphony.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 11, 2022, 05:57:03 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2022, 06:27:24 AM
Oh shit! I forgot Schnittke! :o ;D

That's what I'm here for, buddy!
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 11, 2022, 06:07:59 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on March 10, 2022, 11:24:34 AM

Allan Pettersson

Per Nørgård



These two are so good and I could easily add to my list. Thanks for the reminder!
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 11, 2022, 08:57:43 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 10, 2022, 07:45:11 AM
It is interesting to me which composers' symphonies get renumbered and which don't. As recently as 1960ish, Dvorak's Symphony No. 8 was still called No. 4 and No. 9 occasionally known to many as No. 5. (Yesterday I listened to a Szell/Cleveland "No. 4" that was released in 1958.) That got fixed to the universal agreement of all the musical world. Meanwhile, we've known for years that Mendelssohn's symphonies are out of order, but we're not bothered enough to swap them around, even though all the out-of-order pieces have convenient nicknames.

The Beethoven piano concertos 1 and 2 are also out of order, being listed by publication date, and the tiny early op. 49 sonatas are stuck in between opp. 31 and 53. As for Dvorak, my old scores still have 4 and 5 on their covers rather than 8 and 9. The music is still the same, and I'm not going to buy new copies just for that.
Title: Re: 8th symphonies
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2022, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 11, 2022, 05:57:03 AM
That's what I'm here for, buddy!

;D