Not a specific "poll", per se, I am curious as to what specific works you believe are over programmed in the concert hall?
Bonus points if you can list works specific to your local orchestra or chamber music organization. :)
Top four over programmed by the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra, easily and by far are:
Beethoven - Symphony No.7
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No. 5 Emperor
Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 5
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
Pretty much all of what is the so-called "standard repertoire" would apply here. So I guess my answer would be ALL OF IT! ;D
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 29, 2022, 10:18:38 AM
Pretty much all of what is the so-called "standard repertoire" would apply here. So I guess my answer would be ALL OF IT! ;D
Agreed. ;D
But then again, give me the so-called "standard repertoire" over the non-standard repertoire every day and night. 8)
Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2022, 10:20:56 AM
Agreed. ;D
But then again, give me the so-called "standard repertoire" over the non-standard repertoire every day and night. 8)
A lovely mix-and-match would be ideal, but this doesn't always happen, especially when you can clearly see an orchestra is trying to fill seats, which I understand as they need to make money.
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 29, 2022, 10:13:35 AM
Not a specific "poll", per se, I am curious as to what specific works you believe are over programmed in the concert hall?
Bonus points if you can list works specific to your local orchestra or chamber music organization. :)
Top four over programmed by the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra, easily and by far are:
Beethoven - Symphony No.7
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No. 5 Emperor
Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 5
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
Tangentially, when I was at UVa, the music director of the orchestra (whose "core" was faculty, plus students and members of the community) at the time would program one
Brahms symphony every season. He rotated them so that any student would have the chance to play each of the four while at the
University. It was simultaneously the object of gentle jest, and a nice opportunity.
Concert programs with these works put me off ::)
Orff: Carmina Burana
Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4
Elgar: Cello Concerto
Brahms: Symphony No. 1
The Dallas Symphony is doing the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 two seasons in a row right now, which strikes me as truly excessive. Two in a row?!
Pictures at an Exhibition, Beethoven's 9th, and bizarrely the Beethoven Second (!) and Third piano concertos also get programmed here every 3 years or less.
I will give them credit, they're also about to do the Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra for the second time in five years, an almost unimaginable but honestly very awesome frequency!
The local orchestra here hits Beethoven's symphonies and concertos pretty hard but they don't tend to repeat the same works. The only two I've heard twice from them is The Pines of Rome and Slow Ride on a Fast Machine.
Quote from: DavidW on March 29, 2022, 02:15:37 PM
The local orchestra here hits Beethoven's symphonies and concertos pretty hard but they don't tend to repeat the same works. The only two I've heard twice from them is The Pines of Rome and Slow Ride on a Fast Machine.
Oh...those are two great works right there (
Pini di Rome and
Slow Ride in a Fast Machine). I'd love to hear these in a concert hall.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 29, 2022, 04:38:51 PM
Oh...those are two great works right there (Pini di Rome and Slow Ride in a Fast Machine). I'd love to hear these in a concert hall.
I too would buy tickets for a concert like that if given the opportunity!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 29, 2022, 04:44:24 PM
I too would buy tickets for a concert like that if given the opportunity!
8) Well, this kind of program requires some thinking outside of the box and it seems orchestra's aren't too good at this nowadays.
I'm a sucker for whatever is playing, even the "classics"
This year alone I've seen Nashville Symphony play Schubert Unfinished, DSCH 5th, Dvorak 8th, Ravel's Bolero and still have Debussy's Le Mer and Beethoven's 9th to go this season. I've seen these all performed before whether by NSO or from another Orchestra, and would see them again, nothing beats the thrill of a live performance.
I would still prefer to see more rarities or contemporary works scheduled, but popularity sells. NSO does do a good job of mixing in contemporary composers though, had a few world premieres this year and several more scheduled next season.
Definitely these (please note: I am not equating "over-played" with "not deserving of popularity" :)):
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
Beethoven: everything
Brahms: everything
Bruch: Violin Concerto no. 1
Bruckner: Symphony no. 4
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Debussy: La mer
Dvorak: Symphonies 8 and 9
Elgar: Cello Concerto
Mahler: Symphonies 1, 2, and 5
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto
Mussorgsky/Ravel: Pictures
Prokofiev: Symphony no. 5
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concertos 2 and 3
Ravel: Bolero
Respighi: Pines of Rome
Rimsky: Scheherazade
Shostakovich: Symphonies 5 and 10
Sibelius: Symphony no. 2 and Violin Concerto
Stravinsky: Firebird, Petrushka, Rite of Spring
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4-6, Violin Concerto, Rococo Variations, Romeo and Juliet
Great as many of these works are, if I had the power, I would ban all of them from the concert halls for just one year to force more creative programming. >:D
Quote from: kyjo on March 30, 2022, 07:27:31 PM
Definitely these (please note: I am not equating "over-played" with "not deserving of popularity" :)):
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
Beethoven: everything
Brahms: everything
Bruch: Violin Concerto no. 1
Bruckner: Symphony no. 4
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Debussy: La mer
Dvorak: Symphonies 8 and 9
Elgar: Cello Concerto
Mahler: Symphonies 1, 2, and 5
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto
Mussorgsky/Ravel: Pictures
Prokofiev: Symphony no. 5
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concertos 2 and 3
Ravel: Bolero
Respighi: Pines of Rome
Rimsky: Scheherazade
Shostakovich: Symphonies 5 and 10
Sibelius: Symphony no. 2 and Violin Concerto
Stravinsky: Firebird, Petrushka, Rite of Spring
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4-6, Violin Concerto, Rococo Variations, Romeo and Juliet
Great as many of these works are, if I had the power, I would ban all of them from the concert halls for just one year to force more creative programming. >:D
Hell, quite true!! Concert halls are losing tons of money by not programming or performing a different and wider range of repertoire. I mean, do you imagine some Atterberg's Symphony No. 2 being performed by the Pittsburgh Symphony? Or Zara Levina's Piano Concerto No. 2 along with Berwald's Symphony No. 2
Sinfonia Capricieuse in a row at the music hall? I mean, the options are there. You just have to take risks and you get it.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 30, 2022, 07:45:53 PM
Hell, quite true!! Concert halls are losing tons of money by not programming or performing a different and wider range of repertoire. I mean, do you imagine some Atterberg's Symphony No. 2 being performed by the Pittsburgh Symphony? Or Zara Levina's Piano Concerto No. 2 along with Berwald's Symphony No. 2 Sinfonia Capricieuse in a row at the music hall? I mean, the options are there. You just have to take risks and you get it.
I would gladly spend my entire last paycheck on a ticket to hear the Pittsburgh Symphony (or any professional orchestra!) perform something by Atterberg, Braga Santos, Lloyd, Casella, hell, just about any deserving "non-mainstream" composer. Unfortunately, those in charge of programming seem to believe that only the mainstream classics will sell tickets. Of course, they may very well be right, unfortunately, but like you say, the chance must at least be taken!!
BTW, as a ray of hope, I saw that Honeck and the Pittsburgh Symphony are performing Schmidt's Symphony no. 4 next spring!! Needless to say, I will do everything in my power to be there, even though I no longer live in Pittsburgh. Of course, they're advertising the program as "Emanuel Ax plays Chopin" ::): https://pittsburghsymphony.org/production/77725/emanuel-ax-plays-chopin
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 29, 2022, 11:06:36 AM
Concert programs with these works put me off ::)
Orff: Carmina Burana
Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4
Elgar: Cello Concerto
Brahms: Symphony No. 1
Largely agree, although I'm currently playing and enjoying the Elgar now.
I might add Dvorak's New World Symphony and Vaughan Williams's 'The Lark Ascending'.
It is great to sometimes hear lesser-known works, like Bantock's 'Celtic Symphony' (all those harps) played live, as I did a few years ago. Also Havergal Brian's 'Gothic Symphony' which, amazingly, I've heard twice in concert (Brabbins, Schmidt).
...or any of the rest of Havergal Brian's symphonies, that require significantly less logistical challenges in the majority of cases.
Dallas did Schmidt 4 this year.
Dallas overall does a very good job; last year they stuck to the Big Hits to make some money back after the pandemic, but now they are back on track with more interesting programs again. Some recent/future stuff they've had include Rach's The Bells, Schmidt 4, Martinu 4, Shostakovich 4, Rouse 5 (premiere), Macmillan violin concerto 2, several premieres by composer in residence Angelica Negrón, a bassoon concerto on Native American folk legends, Gabriela Montero playing her own piano concerto, the Prokofiev Symphony-Concerto, Dvorak Water Goblin and Wood Dove...
So I can complain that Fabio Luisi is doing yet another Brahms cycle, but in fact there is a remarkable attempt to have something for everyone.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 31, 2022, 11:31:49 PM
Largely agree, although I'm currently playing and enjoying the Elgar now.
I might add Dvorak's New World Symphony and Vaughan Williams's 'The Lark Ascending'.
It is great to sometimes hear lesser-known works, like Bantock's 'Celtic Symphony' (all those harps) played live, as I did a few years ago. Also Havergal Brian's 'Gothic Symphony' which, amazingly, I've heard twice in concert (Brabbins, Schmidt).
I don't think the
Elgar (which I always delight to hear) is at all overdone this side of The Pond.
Quote from: Brian on April 01, 2022, 04:36:31 AM
Dallas did Schmidt 4 this year.
Dallas overall does a very good job; last year they stuck to the Big Hits to make some money back after the pandemic, but now they are back on track with more interesting programs again. Some recent/future stuff they've had include Rach's The Bells, Schmidt 4, Martinu 4, Shostakovich 4, Rouse 5 (premiere), Macmillan violin concerto 2, several premieres by composer in residence Angelica Negrón, a bassoon concerto on Native American folk legends, Gabriela Montero playing her own piano concerto, the Prokofiev Symphony-Concerto, Dvorak Water Goblin and Wood Dove...
So I can complain that Fabio Luisi is doing yet another Brahms cycle, but in fact there is a remarkable attempt to have something for everyone.
Nice.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 01, 2022, 08:47:10 PM
I don't think the Elgar (which I always delight to hear) is at all overdone this side of The Pond.
Good to know
Karl.
I feel like every time I open the page of our local music hall, there's another Mahler symphony being programmed. I just wish I was a bigger Mahler fan..
Quote from: Skogwald on June 02, 2024, 01:51:39 AMI feel like every time I open the page of our local music hall, there's another Mahler symphony being programmed. I just wish I was a bigger Mahler fan..
+1. Oh, wait a minute, +100!
Beethoven
Mahler (except 9)
Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Mozart (except the operas)
Haydn
Chopin
Wagner (any opera)
Bel Canto opera
And of course, any John Williams.
Overprogrammed - on (almost any) radio station / orchestra agenda
Dvorak: cello concerto or symph 9
Sibelius: violin concerto or Karelia suite
Beethoven 6
Chostakonich: walz, symphony 5
Tsjaikovski 5
Harry Potter/Star wars/ Disney/John Williams extravaganza
Berlioz Fantastique
Rachmaninov 2 and pianoconcerti 2 & 3
and, yes Mahler
and some Pärt, Einaudi, Piazzolla, Arpeggiata, bonbons
Yep...mankind's appetite for bad music is insatiable... ::)
I wonder how much actual research the complainants have done to see what orchestras are actually programming. Sometimes it just feels here like impressions of what is being over-performed, without actual data. To add one impression to the mix, I always hear the Moonlight Sonata referred to as an over-performed work; however, in my experience I have never heard it live other than in a complete Beethoven cycle. The Beethoven piano works most performed these days (and possibly hence "over-performed") in my experience have been the last three late sonatas, opp. 109, 110, and 111.
Quote from: pjme on June 02, 2024, 05:02:24 AMand some Pärt, Einaudi, Piazzolla, Arpeggiata, bonbons
Wait, what orchestra performances do you attend?! I've never seen those composers performed live!
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on June 02, 2024, 06:48:58 AMI wonder how much actual research the complainants have done to see what orchestras are actually programming.
I think this is the result of being on an international forum. Different countries, different cities... different things performed. I once lived in a place I could attend concerts of baroque music on an almost weekly basis. I now live in a place where I've only heard baroque music performed what three times? And it was Bach twice and Handel's Messiah.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on June 02, 2024, 06:48:58 AMI wonder how much actual research the complainants have done to see what orchestras are actually programming. Sometimes it just feels hear like impressions of what is being over-performed, without actual data. To add one impression to the mix, I always hear the Moonlight Sonata referred to as an over-performed work; however, in my experience I have never heard it live other than in a complete Beethoven cycle. The Beethoven piano works most performed these days (and possibly hence "over-performed") in my experience have been the last three late sonatas, opp. 109, 110, and 111.
Agreed. I think there is a current live concert vogue for profundity across genres - serious sonatas, serious operas, big Mahlerian symphonies. I've had multiple opportunities in the last 12 months to see the Hammerklavier and Mahler 2 live. Dallas and Fort Worth just had Mahler 5 in back to back months.
But my current answers to the thread prompt would be the Beethoven concertos for all instruments and the Elgar Cello Concerto, which has joined Dvorak - and even elbowed out poor Shostakovich - as one of the only cello showcases we ever get to see in Texas.
Quote from: Brian on June 02, 2024, 07:32:07 AMBut my current answers to the thread prompt would be the Beethoven concertos for all instruments and the Elgar Cello Concerto, which has joined Dvorak - and even elbowed out poor Shostakovich - as one of the only cello showcases we ever get to see in Texas.
Oh that is interesting. Here it is Haydn and Shostakovich that are overly represented in cello concertos (though they don't get as much attention as piano concertos here).
Quote from: San Antone on June 02, 2024, 03:58:13 AMBeethoven
Mahler (except 9)
Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Mozart (except the operas)
Haydn
Chopin
Wagner (any opera)
Bel Canto opera
And of course, any John Williams.
Also, anything by
Brahms. Mild irony, as the thread was inaugurated by Brahmsian.