GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 06:53:48 AM

Title: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 06:53:48 AM
Which of these two instruments do you love more and why?

I confess that although solo piano is probably my favorite genre, if I could start my life again I'd love to learn playing the violin  -- if only because it's much more portable and handy.  :D

For my ears the sound of the piano is aristocratic, elegant and intraverted, while the sound of the violin is commoner-like, sentimental and extraverted. I love both of them equally --- their combination, be they sonatas or variations or individual pieces is dynamite for my soul.

How about you?
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Todd on April 17, 2022, 07:16:34 AM
Piano.  It has a greater frequency range, greater dynamic range, and solo music written for the instrument is often more expressive. 
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 07:19:27 AM
The piano is an all-purpose 'really useful engine', but my heart is with the violin, which has a soul! :)
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Brahmsian on April 17, 2022, 07:34:23 AM
I cannot chose, even WITH a gun to my head.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 07:46:39 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 17, 2022, 07:34:23 AM
I cannot chose, even WITH a gun to my head.
:)

By religious leaders in history, and in folk legend too, the violin is regarded as 'the devil's instrument'.
Why would that be, unless it is almost irresistibly seductive?
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: prémont on April 17, 2022, 07:53:38 AM
Piano.

Most composers of distinction have written more interesting music for piano than for violin. And other than that I have a problem with the steely sound of the "modern" violin.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: amw on April 17, 2022, 07:57:33 AM
I chose both: I tried to learn both piano and violin when starting out. I ended up giving up the violin though, for various reasons—mostly that after a year or so of lessons I still hadn't improved to what I considered an acceptable level of tone production, but also because there wasn't much repertoire I could play on my own.

In retrospect the latter was exactly the reason I should have stuck with it: it might have pushed me to play more chamber music, and thus become more socially active and well-connected among other musicians. As an ongoing piano student ~20 years later, with no hope of ever reaching a professional level, I mostly end up playing solo piano stuff.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 07:58:12 AM
Quote from: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 07:46:39 AM
By religious leaders in history, and in folk legend too, the violin is regarded as 'the devil's instrument'.

I don't remember Jesus Christ's saying anything about either violin or piano.  :)
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 17, 2022, 08:01:15 AM
Easy - violin every time.  Pianists can't play in orchestras (I'm ignoring orchestral piano parts) as a matter of course.  The piano is essentially a solo instrument the violin essentially an ensemble instrument.  The GREATEST joy of music making is the shared ensemble experience.  The violin is the best ensemble instrument........
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:02:48 AM
Quote from: amw on April 17, 2022, 07:57:33 AM
I chose both: I tried to learn both piano and violin when starting out. I ended up giving up the violin though, for various reasons—mostly that after a year or so of lessons I still hadn't improved to what I considered an acceptable level of tone production, but also because there wasn't much repertoire I could play on my own.

In retrospect the latter was exactly the reason I should have stuck with it: it might have pushed me to play more chamber music, and thus become more socially active and well-connected among other musicians. As an ongoing piano student ~20 years later, with no hope of ever reaching a professional level, I mostly end up playing solo piano stuff.

Great point! Playing the violin is indeed a much more socially activity than playing the piano.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:11:32 AM
Quote from: Todd on April 17, 2022, 07:16:34 AM
Piano.  It has a [...] greater dynamic range.

I think this is not an intrinsic feature but it's heavily dependent on performers. It's quite possible that a fff on the violin sound louder than a fff on piano, and I attended concerts in which the violin was distinctly audible against the orchestral tutti background and concerts in which the piano was drowned in the massive orchestral sound.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Autolycus on April 17, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 17, 2022, 08:01:15 AM
Easy - violin every time.  Pianists can't play in orchestras (I'm ignoring orchestral piano parts) as a matter of course.  The piano is essentially a solo instrument the violin essentially an ensemble instrument.  The GREATEST joy of music making is the shared ensemble experience.  The violin is the best ensemble instrument........

The piano is an all purpose continuo instrument and also can act as a percussion section on its own.So the piano is an ideal ensemble instrument.

If you look at Bach's 4 part fugues it's even an orchestra in itself. Some of Mozart's Piano Sonatas have an orchestral feel where the piano is imitating an orchestral sound.

What I really like about the piano is its range and capacity for harmony - think of Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith on a fiddle :o
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: Autolycus on April 17, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
What I really like about the piano is its range and capacity for harmony - think of Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith on a fiddle :o

Why would anyone think of that?
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 17, 2022, 08:36:18 AM
Quote from: Autolycus on April 17, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
The piano is an all purpose continuo instrument and also can act as a percussion section on its own.So the piano is an ideal ensemble instrument.

If you look at Bach's 4 part fugues it's even an orchestra in itself. Some of Mozart's Piano Sonatas have an orchestral feel where the piano is imitating an orchestral sound.

What I really like about the piano is its range and capacity for harmony - think of Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith on a fiddle :o

Err..... no!  When was continuo used post 17???  Name me one major piece post 1800 where the piano is a "continuo" instrument.  Trust me - I've worked with SO MANY pianists who struggle in ensembles (obviously there are GOOD ensemble pianists too) but really the whole mind set of pianists is as solo playing they really do not have a clue about ensemble playing let alone being in an orchestra.  That's why pianists struggle as conductors too - they have no practical experience being "in" an ensemble......
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: amw on April 17, 2022, 08:38:47 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:02:48 AM
Great point! Playing the violin is indeed a much more socially activity than playing the piano.
With that said though, the piano repertoire is much more important to me and not only because I've played some of it. Including solo and piano chamber music, I could not survive without Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Fauré, Grieg, Janáček, Szymanowski, et al. (especially since this includes sonatas for violin and piano, piano trios, songs for voice and piano and so on)—not to mention all the solo keyboard stuff that can be played on piano by Bach, the Couperins, Rameau, Scarlatti, etc. For violin and string music without piano there's also pieces I couldn't live without—Bach, Sciarrino and other solo violin stuff, but also string trios, quartets, quintets and sextets by Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Fauré, Dvořák, Bartók et al. Ok, I guess I can't actually choose at all on the basis of repertoire, but I guess my top 4 or 5 pieces of music ever written all have piano involved somewhere.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 17, 2022, 08:49:20 AM
If I can take 10 pieces of music to listen to for some indeterminate period,  nearly all of them would be violin pieces.  My love of the sound of the instrument plus the particular sound quality of idiomatic violin music is what got me into classical music to begin with.  That said,  of those 10 pieces,  90% would be sonatas for violin and piano,  which is my favorite genre.  So pianoforte would be well represented.  😉

🤠😎
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: VonStupp on April 17, 2022, 08:53:51 AM
Can I anticipate a Heckelphone vs. Contrabassoon thread?  :laugh:

I love the variety and versatility available to the piano, including prepared piano, but, as I have never played a string instrument aside from the Appalachian Dulcimer, I often find myself mystified and enchanted by string instruments.

VS
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:56:24 AM
Quote from: amw on April 17, 2022, 08:38:47 AM
With that said though, the piano repertoire is much more important to me and not only because I've played some of it. Including solo and piano chamber music, I could not survive without Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Fauré, Grieg, Janáček, Szymanowski, et al. (especially since this includes sonatas for violin and piano, piano trios, songs for voice and piano and so on)—not to mention all the solo keyboard stuff that can be played on piano by Bach, the Couperins, Rameau, Scarlatti, etc. For violin and string music without piano there's also pieces I couldn't live without—Bach, Sciarrino and other solo violin stuff, but also string trios, quartets, quintets and sextets by Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Fauré, Dvořák, Bartók et al. Ok, I guess I can't actually choose at all on the basis of repertoire, but I guess my top 4 or 5 pieces of music ever written all have piano involved somewhere.

I'm in complete agreement, although I could easily assemble a Top 5 favorite pieces of music not involving the piano.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:57:20 AM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 17, 2022, 08:49:20 AM
If I can take 10 pieces of music to listen to for some indeterminate period,  nearly all of them would be violin pieces.  My love of the sound of the instrument plus the particular sound quality of idiomatic violin music is what got me into classical music to begin with.  That said,  of those 10 pieces,  90% would be sonatas for violin and piano,  which is my favorite genre.  So pianoforte would be well represented.  😉

🤠😎

Great post, Gurn.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: DavidW on April 17, 2022, 08:59:15 AM
In isolation I prefer the piano to the violin by a long shot.

But the violin is the one instrument that always seems to fit and greatly enhance everyone else in chamber and orchestral works.

So it is a tie for me.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: Todd on April 17, 2022, 07:16:34 AM
Piano.  It has a greater frequency range, greater dynamic range, and solo music written for the instrument is often more expressive.

I can't see that - even if the written music is potentially more expressive, how can the fine ideas be expressed by an instrument where you just press some keys, harder or softer, or depress a pedal with your foot? With a violin, the sound is more akin to the human voice, and you have many choices to vary the expression, all based on personal judgement - intonation, vibrato, bowing speed, style and pressure.

Playing a piano is like typing - playing a violin is like fine calligraphy. :)

(Of course, I'm joking - where would we be without either of them.)
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 09:05:08 AM
Quote from: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
how can the fine ideas be expressed by an instrument where you just press some keys, harder or softer, or depress a pedal with your foot?

I should have thought this question was given a definitive answer by Chopin and Liszt.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 17, 2022, 09:08:54 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 09:05:08 AM
I should have thought this question was given a definitive answer by Chopin and Liszt.

Touché! :)
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 17, 2022, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2022, 08:57:20 AM
Great post, Gurn.

Well I'm not sure if the question was easy or hard,  or if my particular interests allowed me to legally cheat. 🤔 😄  Truth is,  I  adore violin music,  🎻   

🤠😎
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Jo498 on April 17, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
I don't like violin solo very much (not even the Bach solos as much as I probably should) and comparably few select violin concertos (not mainly the fault of the instrument), I like violin chamber music a lot (i.e. + piano or b.c. or other small, violin-dominated ensemble), though. So piano wins for me.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 17, 2022, 01:11:26 PM
Piano for many of the reasons that have been presented already, but I do take the point of Roasted Swan into account.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: DavidW on April 17, 2022, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on April 17, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
I don't like violin solo very much (not even the Bach solos as much as I probably should) and comparably few select violin concertos (not mainly the fault of the instrument), I like violin chamber music a lot (i.e. + piano or b.c. or other small, violin-dominated ensemble), though. So piano wins for me.

I like Bach's sonatas and partitas but honestly for every time I listen to them I listen to Bach's solo keyboard works at least 50x more often and that is sadly not an exaggeration.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 17, 2022, 06:41:44 PM
Please turn to 16:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bmo3MzomJs

"The piano is the most inclusive of all instruments. It can purr like a flute, or thunder like a trombone. It can imitate drums, a guitar, a contrabassoon, even a xylophone. It can compete with the largest orchestra, or play an entire symphony unaccompanied."

But I also love these two guys:
https://www.youtube.com/c/twosetviolin/featured
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2022, 06:54:00 PM
I can't choose and it really has to do with the fact that both are instruments that I love dearly. The piano can enter a harmonic space that I find completely singular and the fact that you can play chords on it makes it even more appealing to me, but with the violin, it has a way of rising through a texture that can send shivers down my spine. There's a certain loneliness in the violin that I relate to and that cuts deeper than the piano. But, as I said, I love both instruments for completely different reasons.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 18, 2022, 04:19:18 AM
I love violin more than anything else in any case. It might be more of a struggle if it was harpsichord rather than violinX (sorry, I meant to say 'rather than piano'). I like the peanut-brittle sound of the harpsichord better than the milkshake tone of the piano.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: ritter on April 18, 2022, 06:01:22 AM
Piano...by a country mile.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: LKB on April 18, 2022, 06:49:08 AM
Violin... by a country mile.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 18, 2022, 07:37:08 AM
What is a country mile vs. any other kind?

Something like this is wonderfully informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAU_6huLGQ8
I love these guys.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Rosalba on April 18, 2022, 09:29:42 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 18, 2022, 07:37:08 AM
What is a country mile vs. any other kind?

A 'country mile' does seem longer than one in the town or on the motorway. I know I've seen signposts in the depths of Wales or Ireland that say it's two miles from the nearest village and it seems twice as long. Maybe it's because of the narrow winding roads where you can't go fast, or maybe because you want to see your destination but it's round the bend, behind a clump of trees, or has a hill in front of it.
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 18, 2022, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: Rosalba on April 18, 2022, 04:19:18 AM
I love violin more than anything else in any case. It might be more of a struggle if it was harpsichord rather than violin. I like the peanut-brittle sound of the harpsichord better than the milkshake tone of the piano.

Me too. And since I only listen to old music, I can justify hearing it on old instruments. I particularly like Tangentenflügel but also clavichord and most of the others too. All the stuff that people will shortly hate on is exactly what appeals to me about old keyboards. :D

8)
Title: Re: Violin vs. Piano
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 23, 2022, 08:07:50 PM
I'm loving these guys. Normally they post videos with a lot of comedy, but they want to be serious musicians too and you'll learn a lot about the violin just from these 15 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxQN6qdEo_I