Do you have examples of this? Listening to Kalevi Aho's 4th Symphony and in the second movement the grim march reaches a breaking point and collapses. My other example is the finale of Schnittke's 1st Symphony with that enormous symphonic edifice collapsing into that huge chord with organ and percussion strokes. A truly cataclysmic moment!
- Schubert, 9th symphony, andante
- Beethoven, Eroica, development of the first movement, before the first appearance of the "e minor melody"
- Mahler, too many: 2nd movement of 5th with the chorale struggling and not coming through, several in the finale of the 6th and the first movement of the 9th.
Richard Strauss does this in some of the tone poems, too, usually to symbolize something or other from the original story. And Sibelius symphonies have a few of these collapses, notably in the First and Fourth, but he also has moments where the work reaches a breaking point and just ends, like, welp, that's the end of that idea, bye everybody!
There's several of these breaking points in The Ninth of January movement from Shostakovich's Symphony No. 11, "The Year 1905".
Ravel's Bolero(?)
It's interesting...some of these pieces collapse and (almost) immediately end, like Boléro. Then others we are left to wallow in the aftermath for a while. In the case of Shostakovich 7, where the collapse occurs at the climax of the first movement's march. We have the rest of that movement with its desolation and we spend the next three slowly crawling back towards something perhaps resembling triumph but very much through gritted teeth. More defiance than victory. You tried to break us but we still stand.
I don't know if this qualifies, but Prokofiev's Suite from Love of Three Oranges ends with a sudden collapse during a manic buildup.
https://youtu.be/KJTGvsVe26Q?t=855
Something similar happens in his Symphony No. 3 and lots of Shostakovich where the final movement has an introduction section that builds to a collapse that is destroyed but ultimately builds back up to an even grander and resolute finale.
Quote from: Brian on April 20, 2022, 06:07:43 AMAnd Sibelius [...] has moments where the work reaches a breaking point and just ends, like, welp, that's the end of that idea, bye everybody!
Probably the best example of this is in the Humoreske No. 5, op. 89 no. 3, but oddly enough this applies to
most of his music with violin (including all the Humoreskes and almost all of the late violin and piano pieces). It's definitely something I've always aspired to do with a piece someday.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 20, 2022, 05:34:53 AM
... the finale of Schnittke's 1st Symphony...
It's something Schnittke quite enjoys - the Concerto for piano and strings ends in the same way, with the major-key chorale being hacked to pieces by the minor-key version of itself, leaving a kind of post-nuclear waste land behind.
Honegger 3 as well.
I'm not quite clear of what is mean't by "collapses in on itself." Is this supposed to be something the composer did on purpose, or something that happens due to the incompetence of the composer.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 27, 2022, 08:38:41 AM
I'm not quite clear of what is mean't by "collapses in on itself." Is this supposed to be something the composer did on purpose, or something that happens due to the incompetence of the composer.
On purpose. A composer who doesn't do this on purpose doesn't know how to write for an orchestra.
Definitely Shchedrin's Symphony No.1 - it appears to be moving to a Grand Climax at the end but, instead, the music collapses in on itself in a kind of palindromic sequence, which I find very affecting.
Ravel's La valse. The end never fails to startle me.
Quote from: André on April 27, 2022, 05:30:57 PM
Ravel's La valse. The end never fails to startle me.
Beat me to the punch, but yes, 1000% this.
Tutuguri
I seem to recall that the end of Tippett's First Symphony comes into this category but it is a long time since I have heard it (hope to listen to it later).
I believe I was first made aware of this when I discovered Shostakovich's Fourth Symphony, with the climactic anthem collapsing into the desolate epilogue. It had to be the first time I listened to anything like that and I was really impressed, it definitely was one of the major turning points in my experience with classical music.
Quote from: André on April 27, 2022, 05:30:57 PM
Ravel's La valse. The end never fails to startle me.
Ditto. At the ending the bottom seems to fall out of the orchestra! It was always one of the most thrillingly cataclysmic moments in the orchestral repertoire for me, and made me wish Ravel had donned his Bad Boy cap more often.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 29, 2022, 01:57:10 AM
Tutuguri
You mean the very end ? It takes almost 2 hours to get there... ;D
Quote from: André on April 30, 2022, 01:12:34 PM
You mean the very end ? It takes almost 2 hours to get there... ;D
No, towards the end of scene 3. The music is so crazy that someone in the audience can't handle it, he screams, yells, for it to stop (this is built into the score of course.) And then in the last scene, the last 40 minutes or so, the music takes on a different character, I would say a more stable character.
Quote from: Buster Machine on April 30, 2022, 10:23:50 AM
I believe I was first made aware of this when I discovered Shostakovich's Fourth Symphony, with the climactic anthem collapsing into the desolate epilogue. It had to be the first time I listened to anything like that and I was really impressed, it definitely was one of the major turning points in my experience with classical music.
Oh yes, it's a great moment!
Quote from: vandermolen on April 27, 2022, 12:02:24 PM
Definitely Shchedrin's Symphony No.1 - it appears to be moving to a Grand Climax at the end but, instead, the music collapses in on itself in a kind of palindromic sequence, which I find very affecting.
This description could also be applied to the tragic and deeply moving ending of Malcolm Arnold's 5th Symphony!
Quote from: Mandryka on April 30, 2022, 06:54:35 PM
No, towards the end of scene 3. The music is so crazy that someone in the audience can't handle it, he screams, yells, for it to stop (this is built into the score of course.) And then in the last scene, the last 40 minutes or so, the music takes on a different character, I would say a more stable character.
I think the ending, with its rapid-fire series of cymbal clashes - exhausting for player as well as listener, I guess - is a real breaking point. Has to be, actually. Reminds me of the dance marathon scenes in the film
They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Quote from: kyjo on May 01, 2022, 08:45:01 PM
This description could also be applied to the tragic and deeply moving ending of Malcolm Arnold's 5th Symphony!
Yes, I agree - good point Kyle.