This time, you are allowed to take as many works as you like but all composers must be from one and the same country.
Which one?
EDIT: for the purpose of this thread, Germany and Austria are one and the same country.
Wow...this is a difficult question. I love so many composers from so many different countries. I can't answer, so I choose silence.
Quote from: Florestan on May 07, 2022, 06:41:38 AM
This time, you are allowed to take as many works as you like but all composers must be from one and the same country.
Which one?
EDIT: for the purpose of this thread, Germany and Austria are one and the same country.
Obviously, given my taste in Early Music, I'd pick composers from the (northern and southern)
Netherlands.
Which for the purpose of this thread count as one country. :D
I guess I could live with composers from Austria and Germany if that includes Ligeti and Schnittke. :-\
Quote from: steve ridgway on May 08, 2022, 02:40:32 AM
I guess I could live with composers from Austria and Germany if that includes Ligeti and Schnittke. :-\
Nope, it doesn't. Ligeti is Hungarian and Schnittke is Russian. :)
Germany/Austria, bitte. 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2022, 06:37:59 AM
Nope, it doesn't. Ligeti is Hungarian and Schnittke is Russian. :)
Ligeti became an Austrian citizen in 1968. Schnittke was born in Engels in the Volga-German Republic of the Russian SFSR and became a German citizen after moving to Hamburg in 1990.
Oh, that's easy. I'll set myself a limit of 20 works just to make it interesting.
Kalliwoda - Symphony 5
Smetana - Ma Vlast
Dvorak - String quintets Opp 77 and 97 and quartet Op 106
Dvorak - Piano quartet 2, trio 4, and quintet Op 81
Dvorak - Symphonies 6, 7, 8
Suk - Serenade
Mahler - Symphonies 1, 4
Janacek - Sinfonietta, Glagolitic Mass, Sonata 1.X.1905
Martinu - Nonet
Martinu - Symphony 4
Kabelac - Mystery of Time
The only problem is the Czechs are pretty poor on solo piano music. Martinu wrote some good stuff, and Suk has some wonderful romantic cycles, but only Janacek makes the cut. Maybe I should remove one of the many orchestral pieces on my list to squeeze in another Janacek piano work (In the Mists to replace Kalliwoda 5?).
You might very well be the first person in the world who counts Mahler as a Czech. :D
Mahler was born in what used to be called Bohemia, then part of the Austrian empire. So he fits into multiple categories as far as his nationality are concerned.
Quote from: Brian on May 08, 2022, 08:36:35 AMThe only problem is the Czechs are pretty poor on solo piano music.
Don't know if I'd use the word poor. There's Janacek, of course, Dvorak's Opp 85 and 101 at the least, Kabelac's Preludes, Smetana's Dances, Kozeluch's numerous and often quite delightful sonatas, Martinu's works, Dussek's works, and some others. Not Germanic or French quantity or quality, perhaps, but more satisfying than some other nationalities . . .
Besides the many great & established names, Germany-Austria would still have an endless number of reasonably recorded, yet rather unexplored composers, and you'd have the whole of the classical music history covered, so that would also be the choice for me.
Main problem perhaps: any German, 'impressionist' style ?? Well, some composers could be said to get close to it anyway, especially during 1890-1940 or so.
Quote from: Brian on May 08, 2022, 08:36:35 AM
Oh, that's easy. I'll set myself a limit of 20 works just to make it interesting.
(...)
The only problem is the Czechs are pretty poor on solo piano music. Martinu wrote some good stuff, and Suk has some wonderful romantic cycles, but only Janacek makes the cut. Maybe I should remove one of the many orchestral pieces on my list to squeeze in another Janacek piano work (In the Mists to replace Kalliwoda 5?).
You'd also have Lubos Fiser's piano sonatas and Novak's piano works, besides those of Dvorak, Moyzes, Jezek, and Foerster - the last-mentioned perhaps not so interesting, however. Maybe Ostrcil and Karel Boleslav Jirak wrote some good piano stuff too, but I don't think it's been much recorded, if at all. I don't know anything about Fibich's piano music. Haba's is often ... special, but the concertante piece, Symphonic Fantasia op.8, is interesting.
Quote from: Florestan on May 08, 2022, 08:38:34 AM
You might very well be the first person in the world who counts Mahler as a Czech. :D
And why not? He was born there and lived there the first 15 years of life. He was influenced by Dvorak and Czech folk dances. Plus, it helps me ;D
Quote from: Todd on May 08, 2022, 09:20:10 AM
Don't know if I'd use the word poor. There's Janacek, of course, Dvorak's Opp 85 and 101 at the least, Kabelac's Preludes, Smetana's Dances, Kozeluch's numerous and often quite delightful sonatas, Martinu's works, Dussek's works, and some others. Not Germanic or French quantity or quality, perhaps, but more satisfying than some other nationalities . .
Definitely poor in relation to Germany, France, Austria, Hungary (Liszt and Bartok are a heck of a top two), even Spain. I agree about the Kabelac and Martinu, but am going to use this conversation as an excuse to listen to more Dussek, Kozeluch, Fiser, Moyzes, etc. After all, it's all in the name of confirming my own prejudice.
I forgot Martinu's Incantations. Good thing the 20 piece limit was self imposed rather than part of the thread.
Germany/Austria for me as well.
Just a question, can Franz Liszt be counted too? He considered himself a Magyar and referred to Hungary as his homeland, but Hungary was part of the Austrian Empire.....
Quote from: Florestan on May 08, 2022, 08:38:34 AM
You might very well be the first person in the world who counts Mahler as a Czech. :D
The first person was Mahler himself. He considered himself Bohemian, not Austrian or German. On his first trip to New York he antagonized the German press by insisting he was Bohemian not German.
One of the Philharmonic players also said he stressed that in
Mahler Remembered, reminiscences that have been available sporadically on disc.
According to Jens Malte Fischer, young Gustav was raised by family servants and only spoke Czech in his very early years.
Quote from: Biffo on May 09, 2022, 02:32:25 AM
The first person was Mahler himself. He considered himself Bohemian, not Austrian or German. On his first trip to New York he antagonized the German press by insisting he was Bohemian not German.
One of the Philharmonic players also said he stressed that in Mahler Remembered, reminiscences that have been available sporadically on disc.
According to Jens Malte Fischer, young Gustav was raised by family servants and only spoke Czech in his very early years.
Encyclopedia Britannica must be edited by a bunch of ignorants, then, for here is what they say on the matter:
As part of a German-speaking Austrian minority, he was an outsider among the indigenous Czech population and, as a Jew, an outsider among that Austrian minority; later, in Germany, he was an outsider as both an Austrian from Bohemia and a Jew.Here's a question for you and BRian:
Ligeti and
Xenakis were born in Romania, spent their childhood and early youth there and could speak/understand Romanian fairly well, do you conisder them as Romanian composers?
Quote from: Florestan on May 09, 2022, 02:55:19 AM
Encyclopedia Britannica must be edited by a bunch of ignorants, then, for here is what they say on the matter:
As part of a German-speaking Austrian minority, he was an outsider among the indigenous Czech population and, as a Jew, an outsider among that Austrian minority; later, in Germany, he was an outsider as both an Austrian from Bohemia and a Jew.
Here's a question for you and BRian: Ligeti and Xenakis were born in Romania, spent their childhood and early youth there and could speak/understand Romanian fairly well, do you conisder them as Romanian composers?
Did they consider themselves as Romanian for the rest of their lives? Mahler always considered himself Bohemian, whatever the Encyclopedia Britannica has to say.
Quote from: Biffo on May 09, 2022, 03:02:29 AM
Mahler always considered himself Bohemian
Strictly geographical speaking he was right. Culturally, though, he wasn't. His connection with Czech culture proper is all but inexistent: he never spoke Czech in his adult life, not even as a second language; he never set to music one single line of Czech poetry, or composed any program music inspired by Czech history or literature; he had no involvement with any movement or circle promoting Czech nationalism and independence; 99% of his music is inspired by German literature and culture. To consider him Czech in the same degree as Smetana, Dvorak, Janacek and Martinu is a gross exaggeration.
Quote from: Florestan on May 09, 2022, 02:55:19 AM
Here's a question for you and BRian: Ligeti and Xenakis were born in Romania, spent their childhood and early youth there and could speak/understand Romanian fairly well, do you conisder them as Romanian composers?
Obviously this depends on which country you choose for the desert island and how shameless you are about claiming an extra composer 0:)
Quote from: Brian on May 09, 2022, 05:35:32 AM
Obviously this depends on which country you choose for the desert island and how shameless you are about claiming an extra composer 0:)
Well, Mahler, though clearly not a Czech proper, was technically a native of the same country as Smetana and Dvorak, namely the Austrian Empire --- so you can keep him. :D
Germany/Austria purely for the huge variety of music over a long period of time.
You could start with Hildegard von Bingen I suppose (not really a fan) and work your way through Telemann, all the Bachs but mainly JS, Handel, Gluck, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Hummel, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Brahms, Bruckner, the Strauss' and I've not mentioned the slightly lesser knowns such as Reger, Bruch, Czerny, and others.
If this was all the music I had available to listen to for the rest of my life I wouldn't be unhappy. I also can't see any other nationality matching this output, including the French and Italians.
Can't see a solution here. I think I'll have to start my own country and offer posthumous citizenship to every composer that's important to me. Just have to find an uncharted island somewhere....
Quote from: Holden on May 09, 2022, 01:42:28 PM
Germany/Austria purely for the huge variety of music over a long period of time.
You could start with Hildegard von Bingen I suppose (not really a fan) and work your way through Telemann, all the Bachs but mainly JS, Handel, Gluck, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Hummel, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Brahms, Bruckner, the Strauss' and I've not mentioned the slightly lesser knowns such as Reger, Bruch, Czerny, and others.
If this was all the music I had available to listen to for the rest of my life I wouldn't be unhappy. I also can't see any other nationality matching this output, including the French and Italians.
And tehnically speaking you'll have lots of Czech and a few but important Hungarian composers as well. ;)
That is my answer too. The only non-Austrian/German composers I'd miss would be Chopin, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff.
While I would miss France and Italy, it would have to be Austria-Germany.
Pangaea ;D
UNITED STATES
Leonard Bernstein
George Gershwin
Charles Ives
Stephen Sondheim
Marc Blitzstein
John Cage
Morton Feldman
John Luther Adams
Elliott Carter
Duke Ellington
Charles Mingus
Louis Moreau Gottschalk
Scott Joplin
Charles Wuorinen