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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Scion7 on November 16, 2022, 04:57:50 AM

Title: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Scion7 on November 16, 2022, 04:57:50 AM
Pulled this one out last night.  Listening again to it this morning.  Brilliant playing. 
Much more fire, than say, Hahn and Petrenko.
Sad ending for such a talented man, though.  R.I.P.

Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 16, 2022, 05:05:33 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on November 16, 2022, 04:57:50 AM
Pulled this one out last night.  Listening again to it this morning.  Brilliant playing. 
Much more fire, than say, Hahn and Petrenko.
Sad ending for such a talented man, though.  R.I.P.
Glad that you are enjoying it!  I don't know his recording of it, but I do enjoy that concerto.  :)

PD
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Scion7 on November 16, 2022, 05:08:18 AM
That record has traveled with me across the Atlantic.  Great sound for 1958 - good stereo balance.  The original cover is better; this shot is of an older Ferras.  But it was on sale in London as I recall ... and I plucked it!
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Karl Henning on November 16, 2022, 06:43:16 AM
Great piece!
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Leo K. on November 16, 2022, 08:57:43 AM
YES me too! The recording by Joshua Bell with Michael Tilson Thomas sounded so different to the usual interpretation it got me interested again in the violin Concerto.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Florestan on November 16, 2022, 10:32:11 AM
Count me in too as a big fan of this concerto, one of my favorite piece of music ever written.

We all have our favorites but I suggest a different game: what is the worst performance of it you've ever heard? For me it is this:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL.jpg)

The most lifeless, passionless, boringest  (sic!) and dullest recording of Tchaikovsky's music I've ever heard, possibly of anyone's music. Unbelievably bad.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Lisztianwagner on November 16, 2022, 11:24:52 AM
I love Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto very much too, it is an absolutely incredible, compelling piece. I don't know the Ferras recording with Silvestri, but I definitely appreciate his recording with Karajan/BPO, really outstanding.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Jo498 on November 16, 2022, 12:13:45 PM
I am not a huge fan of the piece but the recording that rekindled my interest some time ago was Repin/Gergiev (live, with Miaskovsky). And I am annoyed that Ferras/Silvestri was not included in the big EMI Silvestri-box.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Florestan on November 16, 2022, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on November 16, 2022, 12:13:45 PM
I am not a huge fan of the piece but the recording that rekindled my interest some time ago was Repin/Gergiev (live, with Miaskovsky).

Don't know that and chances are I'll never know it --- in my book Gergiev is a despicable scumbag I have no interest whatsoever in exploring.

QuoteI am annoyed that Ferras/Silvestri was not included in the big EMI Silvestri-box.

I am too but the box is focused entirely on Silvestri --- there is not a single concerto in it.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Jo498 on November 16, 2022, 11:27:40 PM
I am certainly not entering Gergiev debates but FWIW I got this recording before the current conflict became "hot".
They were at least consistent in case of the Icon Silvestri box (they did much worse in some other cases).
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Daverz on November 17, 2022, 02:22:25 AM
The most compelling modern recording I've heard is Pavel Šporcl on Supraphon.  An intense, folk-inspired performance.

[asin]B00008UEFL[/asin]
You'd expect that Bělohlávek would conduct the Dvorak and Ashkenazy the Tchaikovsky, but it's the other way around.

Quote from: Jo498 on November 16, 2022, 12:13:45 PM
I am not a huge fan of the piece but the recording that rekindled my interest some time ago was Repin/Gergiev (live, with Miaskovsky). And I am annoyed that Ferras/Silvestri was not included in the big EMI Silvestri-box.

I don't think the Silvestri Icon box has any recordings of Silvestri as accompanist.  It's in the Ferras Icon box, though.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8364849--christian-ferras-the-complete-hmv-telefunken-recordings 
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 17, 2022, 02:47:22 AM
Quote from: Daverz on November 17, 2022, 02:22:25 AM
The most compelling modern recording I've heard is Pavel Šporcl on Supraphon.  An intense, folk-inspired performance.

[asin]B00008UEFL[/asin]
You'd expect that Bělohlávek would conduct the Dvorak and Ashkenazy the Tchaikovsky, but it's the other way around.

I don't think the Silvestri Icon box has any recordings of Silvestri as accompanist.  It's in the Ferras Icon box, though.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8364849--christian-ferras-the-complete-hmv-telefunken-recordings

Šporcl is a phenomenally talented player - I like the musical risks he takes.  That doesn't mean I always like the results(!) but I like a player who doesn't just go for "safe" super-polished options.  I try and get just about anything he records.  Another really exciting/individual Tchaikovsky is from the ever-great Aaron Rosand.  Old-School and with the occasionally technical blip but wow this guy can play!!!

(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/VOX-7211.jpg)

Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Jo498 on November 17, 2022, 03:33:21 AM
Quote from: Daverz on November 17, 2022, 02:22:25 AM
I don't think the Silvestri Icon box has any recordings of Silvestri as accompanist.  It's in the Ferras Icon box, though.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8364849--christian-ferras-the-complete-hmv-telefunken-recordings
Yes, all accompaniments (also Menuhin, Ciccolini and a few more) would have been about 4-5 more discs and thus probably too much for the typical Icon format. As I wrote, they were at least consistent by not having any concerti. But as it is not a piece I care a lot for, it's no reason for me to get another box; the Ferras is a bit tempting for the chamber music but not quite enough, unless really rock bottom cheap.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: LKB on November 17, 2022, 07:37:39 AM
My first recording featured Isaac Stern with Ormandy and his Philadelphia Orchestra, recorded for Columbia/CBS in 1958. Decent sound, and thinking back on it I suspect that it was probably one of Stern's better recordings. Certainly l enjoyed it as much as Heifetz/ Reiner ( my current preference ) or Oistrakh/Ormandy, as fine as those efforts are.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 17, 2022, 09:04:37 PM
Maybe these for me.


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91pz5gvLYGL._AC_UY436_QL65_.jpg)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81a1j57NXJL._SX466_.jpg)



Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 17, 2022, 11:05:58 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 17, 2022, 09:04:37 PM
Maybe these for me.


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91pz5gvLYGL._AC_UY436_QL65_.jpg)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81a1j57NXJL._SX466_.jpg)

Its curious - and obviously simply a personal reaction - but of all the famous/ridiculously talented players, Gidon Kremer is the one I seek out least.  Of course he can play brilliantly but somehow he rarely engages my heart as well as my head.  I'm sure we all have similar blank spots!
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Irons on November 18, 2022, 12:02:33 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on November 16, 2022, 05:08:18 AM
That record has traveled with me across the Atlantic.  Great sound for 1958 - good stereo balance.  The original cover is better; this shot is of an older Ferras.  But it was on sale in London as I recall ... and I plucked it!

The image cover of your post is I think a French issue. An original ASD LP is highly sought after with a market value of between one and three hundred UK pounds depending on condition. Testament issued, mainly violin, a batch of facsimile LPs over time of which Tchaikovsky/Ferras is one, it is this issue I own.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 18, 2022, 03:29:21 AM
Quote from: Irons on November 18, 2022, 12:02:33 AM
The image cover of your post is I think a French issue. An original ASD LP is highly sought after with a market value of between one and three hundred UK pounds depending on condition. Testament issued, mainly violin, a batch of facsimile LPs over time of which Tchaikovsky/Ferras is one, it is this issue I own.
Lol,

Is this photo one of the original ASD ones?  If so, what distinguishes the Testament ones?  As in can one see their label?

PD
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 18, 2022, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 17, 2022, 11:05:58 PM
Its curious - and obviously simply a personal reaction - but of all the famous/ridiculously talented players, Gidon Kremer is the one I seek out least.  Of course he can play brilliantly but somehow he rarely engages my heart as well as my head.  I'm sure we all have similar blank spots!
.

I like some coolness and lyricism in his playing. I also like the performance of orchestra.
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Irons on November 18, 2022, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 18, 2022, 03:29:21 AM
Lol,

Is this photo one of the original ASD ones?  If so, what distinguishes the Testament ones?  As in can one see their label?

PD

Yes, PD. If you notice there is a gold stereo sticker which signifies a white and gold label first edition which sells for big bucks. Testament even went to the trouble of copying the sticker! The big giveaway which for copyright reasons Testament was unable to avoid on both label and cover is the use of EMI instead of HMV. Initially all releases were from the EMI catalogue but later they were to source other labels, Decca for example.

The company that opened up the market for facsimile LPs wasn't British but American.   
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 19, 2022, 01:14:29 PM
Quote from: Irons on November 18, 2022, 11:50:19 PM
Yes, PD. If you notice there is a gold stereo sticker which signifies a white and gold label first edition which sells for big bucks. Testament even went to the trouble of copying the sticker! The big giveaway which for copyright reasons Testament was unable to avoid on both label and cover is the use of EMI instead of HMV. Initially all releases were from the EMI catalogue but later they were to source other labels, Decca for example.

The company that opened up the market for facsimile LPs wasn't British but American.
But wouldn't they have to print somewhere the name of their (Testament's) label and/or other info?  And when were they doing this?

PD
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Irons on November 20, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 19, 2022, 01:14:29 PM
But wouldn't they have to print somewhere the name of their (Testament's) label and/or other info?  And when were they doing this?

PD

Perhaps we should move discussion over to vinyl thread before we get moaned at. :-X
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 10, 2024, 08:48:03 AM
These are the recordings I enjoyed listening to in the last few years. The recording sound of Stern/Hilsberg is excellent. I can't believe this was recorded in 1949! @Irons Was this possibly recorded by Walter Legge? As for Erica Morini, I liked her recording with Rodzinski too. Others are Oistrakh, Erick Friedman with Sofia, early Kogan, and Bronislaw Gimpel.




(https://i.discogs.com/6nTgDcIKlT3JkT-YWNM-3zDwf6ElQsKIbNu07kmkTmM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:593/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI1ODg0/Nzk5LTE2NzUzNTU1/OTUtNzc3MS5qcGVn.jpeg)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk5MDYxNi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NDN9)


(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/1436edbdb06a4c76c1b0391608cb70db/1900x1900-000000-80-0-0.jpg)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1NDMzMy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzgzNzc1Mzd9)


(https://i.discogs.com/w9x1yc_IZEInsQyFzr4cW8Sg403Ap5iv2ReGp5_uQik/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:591/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTIzMDM4/OTg4LTE2NTExMzcw/MTAtNDUzNC5qcGVn.jpeg)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71M9f0ujvGL._SX466_.jpg)
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Kalevala on October 10, 2024, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 10, 2024, 08:48:03 AMThese are the recordings I enjoyed listening to in the last few years. The recording sound of Stern/Hilsberg is excellent. I can't believe this was recorded in 1949! @Irons Was this possibly recorded by Walter Legge? As for Erica Morini, I liked her recording with Rodzinski too. Others are Oistrakh, Erick Friedman with Sofia, early Kogan, and Bronislaw Gimpel.




(https://i.discogs.com/6nTgDcIKlT3JkT-YWNM-3zDwf6ElQsKIbNu07kmkTmM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:593/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI1ODg0/Nzk5LTE2NzUzNTU1/OTUtNzc3MS5qcGVn.jpeg)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk5MDYxNi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NDN9)


(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/1436edbdb06a4c76c1b0391608cb70db/1900x1900-000000-80-0-0.jpg)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1NDMzMy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzgzNzc1Mzd9)


(https://i.discogs.com/w9x1yc_IZEInsQyFzr4cW8Sg403Ap5iv2ReGp5_uQik/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:591/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTIzMDM4/OTg4LTE2NTExMzcw/MTAtNDUzNC5qcGVn.jpeg)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71M9f0ujvGL._SX466_.jpg)

I don't know those particular recordings, but I do love the work.  Happy that you are enjoying revisiting it.  :)

K
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Florestan on October 10, 2024, 12:50:21 PM
One to avoid at all cost:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL._AC_.jpg)

To make Tchaikovsky's VC sound as vivid as a corpse and as exciting as a snail budging is quite an achievement.  ;D
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Kalevala on October 10, 2024, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2024, 12:50:21 PMOne to avoid at all cost:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL._AC_.jpg)

To make Tchaikovsky's VC sound as vivid as a corpse and as exciting as a snail budging is quite an achievement.  ;D
Ouch!

K
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: DavidW on October 10, 2024, 12:57:39 PM
Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2024, 12:50:21 PMOne to avoid at all cost:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL._AC_.jpg)

To make Tchaikovsky's VC sound as vivid as a corpse and as exciting as a snail budging is quite an achievement.  ;D

I think that is the post of the week! :laugh:
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: LKB on October 11, 2024, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2024, 12:50:21 PMOne to avoid at all cost:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL._AC_.jpg)

To make Tchaikovsky's VC sound as vivid as a corpse and as exciting as a snail budging is quite an achievement.  ;D

I will seek it out. I'm familiar with recordings by Stern ( imprint ), Heifetz, Oistrakh and Kogan, and am actually a bit curious as to what makes for a less successful result, particularly with an artist who surely must have had some knowledge of his illustrious predecessors.

We'll see if aural masochism can actually be productive.  ;D
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Maestro267 on October 11, 2024, 02:52:20 AM
That Gilels recording throwing big shade. Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto? Really? Like he only wrote one? The absolute disrespect!
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: LKB on October 11, 2024, 04:00:31 AM
Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2024, 12:50:21 PMOne to avoid at all cost:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61s84Rw8gPL._AC_.jpg)

To make Tchaikovsky's VC sound as vivid as a corpse and as exciting as a snail budging is quite an achievement.  ;D

The only upload I found of the entire concerto was of poor quality, particularly at both the very beginning and at the end. I'm going to link it here, but it's pretty bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRJyyc4zhnw

There's also an upload from Warner of just the second movement, which has decent sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REzQ5_SLNrw

I think Messer Amoyal wasn't really prepared in his life to record the work. He has the technique for it, but not enough musical depth ( which only comes with experience ) to alter his phrasing, tone and projection as the music demands. And so there's a sameness, a bland delivery which isn't helped by his tendency to fade into the orchestral texture in softer passages. Indeed, he nearly disappears completely in a few spots.

I'd say it isn't really a bad recording, but too much of it is simply unmemorable. Another decade under his belt might have yielded something much more interesting .
Title: Re: rekindled excitement over the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto
Post by: Irons on October 11, 2024, 07:13:49 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 10, 2024, 08:48:03 AMThese are the recordings I enjoyed listening to in the last few years. The recording sound of Stern/Hilsberg is excellent. I can't believe this was recorded in 1949! @Irons Was this possibly recorded by Walter Legge? As for Erica Morini, I liked her recording with Rodzinski too. Others are Oistrakh, Erick Friedman with Sofia, early Kogan, and Bronislaw Gimpel





(https://i.discogs.com/6nTgDcIKlT3JkT-YWNM-3zDwf6ElQsKIbNu07kmkTmM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:593/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI1ODg0/Nzk5LTE2NzUzNTU1/OTUtNzc3MS5qcGVn.jpeg)






Isaac Stern recorded Tchaikovsky VC in Philadelphia on 10th April 1949 and published 1953 for American Columbia. I don't think Stern and Legge ever worked together. However, less then a year later Stern with Primrose recorded Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante in Paris for another British producer, Lawrence Collingwood. Only American and British Columbia share is the name and how that came about is very complicated.