Of the 11, which are considered his best?
I did a search but didn't come up with anything.
" Best " is a bit subjective, particularly in the context of a forum where tastes can vary widely among the admirers of any given composer.
The 4th and 7th symphonies are generally labeled as " most popular ". I enjoy them both, but spend more time with the 5th and 8th symphonies.
Hopefully that helps a bit. ;)
It helps. Thank you.
My personal favourites are Nos. 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9 (with the finale).
Quote from: Wanderer on December 03, 2022, 10:17:15 PMMy personal favourites are Nos. 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9 (with the finale).
Those are my favourites as well although No.6 as well. 5, 8 and 9 I would consider to be the greatest.
I would consider his 3rd as my favorite and 2nd and 7th the worst of the 9 (I gave up trying to hear the 0 mid-way during first movement.)
If you want a personal recommendation of the Third: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8e7wlkqUlY
The 7th and the 9th (without the Finale) are my favourites. I can't get on with the 6th at all.
Quote from: Dave B on December 03, 2022, 02:31:32 PMOf the 11, which are considered his best?
I did a search but didn't come up with anything.
DUDE! Are you trying to start a fight?! ;D 8)
You could start with
Symphony #1, or even
Symphony #0, and work your way through.
I happened across the score of
Bruckner's Symphony #7 first, and was instantly hooked, apparently for all time! After that I absorbed everything and liked everything!
The
Ninth (with the Finale - see the
Bruckner section under Composer Discussion) is certainly a top favorite, along with
#5, #6, #1, #4, original versions of
#3 and
#2, and of course the mighty
Seventh and
Eighth!
My attempt at starting a Bruckner Brawl was a failure!
I should have worded my request differently. I.e. which are considered the most popular, not the "best", as someone suggested.
as others have written, the most popular are the 4th and 7th. For decades when Bruckner's music was no way as popular outside Austria as it is today, these were the main ones one was likely to hear in the concert hall. I personally don't care much for the 4th after the first few minutes but I love the 7th. It's the most melodic and lyrical, so I recommend it. All Bruckner symphonies are fairly long and might require patience and several attempts. So you should certainly also try the others.
I'd also advise you to completely ignore alternative versions, start with the most common ones and especially ignore listeners obsessing over Bruckner version, especially those preferring the uncommon versions. It's a nerdy niche and utterly confusing (not to say repulsive) for a newbie.
Thank you. Any recommendations re recording or ensemble?
Quote from: Dave B on December 05, 2022, 11:01:57 AMMy attempt at starting a Bruckner Brawl was a failure!
;D
Quote from: Dave B on December 05, 2022, 11:34:40 AMThank you. Any recommendations re recording or ensemble?
Any work conducted by
Eugen Jochum is a sure bet!
e.g.
Quote from: Dave B on December 05, 2022, 11:34:40 AMThank you. Any recommendations re recording or ensemble?
I'm not familiar with any Bruckner recordings before 1960 or so, but I'm sure others can recommend their favorites.
The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra have a fairly well-established Bruckner tradition, and their recordings with Jochum and Haitink have had my respect for decades.
Von Karajan's recordings with the Berlin Philharmonic and Vienna Philharmonic are well-regarded by many, myself among them.
Then we have Sergiu Celibidache's efforts with the Munich Philharmonic. He certainly has his adherents, and I can understand the attraction... the guy was SERIOUS ( and, unfortunately, a world-class a-hole ). But tbh I only really enjoy parts of his interpretation of Bruckner's 4th.
And since I've brought up the 4th, I feel obligated to mention Karl Boehm's legendary recording with the VPO for Decca. If you can only have one 4th, I'd opt for that one.
( Edited to add " one " to the final sentence.,)
Quote from: LKB on December 05, 2022, 10:52:37 PMAnd since I've brought up the 4th, I feel obligated to mention Karl Boehm's legendary recording with the VPO for Decca. If you can only have 4th, I'd opt for that one.
Is this the one?
And speaking of "Karl" conductors, not to be forgotten is
Carl Schuricht:
Quote from: Dave B on December 05, 2022, 11:01:57 AMMy attempt at starting a Bruckner Brawl was a failure!
I should have worded my request differently. I.e. which are considered the most popular, not the "best", as someone suggested.
My guess is that the order of popularity is something like:
4, 7, 9, 8, 3, 6, 1, 2, 0, Symphony in F
I'd just get the Jochum/Warner box and not worry about No. 0 and Symphony in F on a first pass. The Jochum complete Warner box includes the Bruckner cycle and also great Beethoven and Brahms symphony cycles.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51B1ZupUXWL._SY580_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rHd+Hn0+L._AC_UL600_SR600,600_.jpg)
Quote from: Daverz on December 06, 2022, 12:57:10 PMMy guess is that the order of popularity is something like:
4, 7, 9, 8, 3, 6, 1, 2, 0, Symphony in F
I'd just get the Jochum/Warner box and not worry about No. 0 and Symphony in F on a first pass. The Jochum complete Warner box includes the Bruckner cycle and also great Beethoven and Brahms symphony cycles.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51B1ZupUXWL._SY580_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rHd+Hn0+L._AC_UL600_SR600,600_.jpg)
I can be happy with these recs—both for the most popular symphonies (4 and 7) and with Jochum's versions, at least to start. The Fourth opens with some of the most beautiful French horn calls anywhere, and the Seventh starts with one of the most gorgeous cello lines. My personal faves are 8 and 9, but they can be perhaps a bit sprawling for newcomers.
-Bruce
Quote from: Daverz on December 06, 2022, 12:57:10 PMMy guess is that the order of popularity is something like:
4, 7, 9, 8, 3, 6, 1, 2, 0, Symphony in F
You forgot #5. ;) I think 8 is third in popularity and the drop for 1,2 and then for 0,00 is very sharp. The 5th is probably behind 9 but before 3 and 6. The 3 is a great companion to 4 but the most frequently recorded version a bit problematic.
What should also not be forgotten is that Bruckner used to be considered an acquired taste as recently as the 1980s. I think the "least Brucknerian" and most lyrical and melodic are 7 and 6, so these are worth trying for those who don't immediately take to the general style of the composer.
Quote from: Jo498 on December 07, 2022, 12:56:10 AMYou forgot #5. ;)
Oops. I think it would come in after 6. Perhaps 5 is -- or was, back in the day when 6 was played and recorded very rarely -- more popular with conductors than 6.
There are far more recordings of the 5th outside complete cycles, I believe, and by famous conductors, e.g. Furtwängler, Schuricht, Harnoncourt, the additional Jochum.
In my impression, the 4th and 7th were seen as the accessible ones and the 5th after the 8th as the "big one", with the mysterious unfinished 9th maybe a bit more popular than the 5th but none of the "lesser" ones.
5 and 8 are the twin peaks of the cycle. 4 and 7 are the popular ones.
If you are new to Bruckner, I would recommend No.7 as a starting point. Wonderfully melodic, also light on more acerbic/enigmatic aspects of his style. But make no mistake - No.7 is just as deep and "heavy" a work as any other Bruckner symphony.
Recordings: For No.7, you can actually see a wonderful performance by hr-Sinfonieorchester and Christoph Eschenbach here:
My favourite set of all 9 symphonies:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Ag6JwOGjL._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: GoranTch on May 14, 2025, 04:13:29 AMIf you are new to Bruckner, I would recommend No.7 as a starting point. Wonderfully melodic, also light on more acerbic/enigmatic aspects of his style. But make no mistake - No.7 is just as deep and "heavy" a work as any other Bruckner symphony.
Excellent recommendations all around, and the Seventh is a joy. I've said it for years: that opening cello line is one of the greatest things ever.
Quote from: GoranTch on May 14, 2025, 04:13:29 AMIf you are new to Bruckner, I would recommend No.7 as a starting point. Wonderfully melodic, also light on more acerbic/enigmatic aspects of his style. But make no mistake - No.7 is just as deep and "heavy" a work as any other Bruckner symphony.
Recordings: For No.7, you can actually see a wonderful performance by hr-Sinfonieorchester and Christoph Eschenbach here:
My favourite set of all 9 symphonies:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Ag6JwOGjL._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: brewski on May 14, 2025, 06:10:45 AMExcellent recommendations all around, and the Seventh is a joy. I've said it for years: that opening cello line is one of the greatest things ever.
Amen!!!I have told the story before: I knew nothing about
Bruckner, until at age 12 or so I came across the
Nowak score of the
Seventh Symphony in the library, opened it, read through the first pages, and knew that I just had to hear that work!
Quote from: Cato on May 17, 2025, 02:37:31 PMAmen!!!
I have told the story before: I knew nothing about Bruckner, until at age 12 or so I came across the Nowak score of the Seventh Symphony in the library, opened it, read through the first pages, and knew that I just had to hear that work!
I do envy your skill in being able to do that. I can barely figure out whether I like most of the music I hear, even when I've heard it! Often, multiple listens are needed.
Hats off to you! 😁
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 17, 2025, 02:54:45 PMI do envy your skill in being able to do that. I can barely figure out whether I like most of the music I hear, even when I've heard it! Often, multiple listens are needed.
Hats off to you! 😁
A gift from God!
There is a word in German,
Augenmusik, for a phenomenon in which the written score gives an impression of something interesting, when in fact the music is not very good at all.*
That absolutely did NOT apply to
Bruckner's Seventh Symphony!!! 8)
* The term is also used for scores which deliberately resemble pictures, e.g. an outline of the Cologne Cathedral, or anything else. The music might be interesting in such cases: it will, of course, depend upon the composer.
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/e0/ee/45/e0ee459c-84ce-d699-46b6-a7af14834c15/198004253314.jpg/592x592bb.webp)
Quote from: Cato on May 17, 2025, 03:34:49 PMA gift from God!
There is a word in German, Augenmusik, for a phenomenon in which the written score gives an impression of something interesting, when in fact the music is not very good at all.*
That absolutely did NOT apply to Bruckner's Seventh Symphony!!! 8)
* The term is also used for scores which deliberately resemble pictures, e.g. an outline of the Cologne Cathedral, or anything else. The music might be interesting in such cases: it will, of course, depend upon the composer.
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/e0/ee/45/e0ee459c-84ce-d699-46b6-a7af14834c15/198004253314.jpg/592x592bb.webp)
Without a doubt!
Quote from: brewski on May 14, 2025, 06:10:45 AMExcellent recommendations all around, and the Seventh is a joy. I've said it for years: that opening cello line is one of the greatest things ever.
I just wanted to add to the mini chorus of adoration for that opening cello line, it is something very special. A bit like
@Cato, the moment I heard it I was transfixed, and my love for Bruckner started on the spot. Still whenever I hear it, it is like a switch turned on in my brain and I experience that first moment of love all over again.
I myself am very wary of recommending specific Bruckner symphonies for someone yet to discover my favourite symphonist. I'm not sure if 4 and 7 are the most popular although they do seem traditionally to be the most promoted. That doesn't mean they're performed more than others nowadays and frankly, I find 4 to be (relatively speaking) among the more superficial ones, even if it's certainly "accessible" whatever that might mean and the 7th is let down somewhat by a so so finale. For the finale, one would have to go with the towering edifice of no. 5. For me, the 9th is the greatest taken as a whole (and without any attempts to complete the finale) though my favourite is no.6 -- a symphony which is sometimes loved by those who find some Bruckner rather hard to stomach.
Incidentally that opening cello line inspired my own somewhat Brucknerian 8th symphony so I guess I've been struck by that bug as well.