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Quote from: Roy Bland on March 01, 2023, 02:47:56 AMis there any system to get professional physical cds from download and streaming methods?
Yes, but only in bulk. bisondisc.com will manufacture discs in batches as small as twenty-five.
Quote from: Roy Bland on March 01, 2023, 02:47:56 AMI have reservations both about self-produced CDs and about storage on flash drives and the like
Why? Burned discs should last decades (I have some that have) and files can be backed up on multiple drives as well as online.
The flac rips I made a decade ago are still playable, live on an hd and two different high storage external drives. I have a thumb drive plugged into my streamer and playing the flac files is actually faster and easier than playing a cd with the same sound quality.
Quote from: Roy Bland on March 01, 2023, 02:47:56 AMI have reservations both about self-produced CDs
I digtized all my LPs and tapes and burnt them to CDR with a Maranz CD recorder in the early 1990es, and they all still play well after thirty years. Of course they have been stored dark and not too hot.
I'm an enthusiastic CD collector. I had long-time and costly experience with LP too but I realized that LP is not for me (although I must admit that LP packaging and booklets are unrivaled). My collection contains only original factory produced CDs (I have many CDs even from the beginning of the CD, 1982 and 1983).
I'm thinking about that main long-time problem with CD is not the deterioration of discs. The main problem will be lack of players. As far as I know today currently one Chinese factory produces laser pick-ups. Even the most expensive CD players use that cheap pick-up because there is no another. I use an old Sony ES from the 90s. Old players don't have replacement pick-ups or mechanism. If owner find another working compatible player in reasonable price, he is lucky. If don't, then he can throw out even the most expensive player. If the last factory stops pickup production, CDs will last as long as players work.
I know fellow hi-fi owners who sold all CDs not because deterioration of discs. Their player broke down many times and finally they said they don't want to buy new. Streaming is fine for them.
Quote from: Roy Bland on April 09, 2023, 08:36:43 PMHowever
https://chng.it/HChNHzsJ
That has to be the most unpopular change.org petition I've ever seen! Also a flac download is bit for bit the same when uncompressed in relation to redbook cd (that is why flac is said to be lossless), and playback has less jitter (due to not having timing errors in spinning a disc), so I can't agree with the supposedly poor sound quality of downloads.
Quote from: Roberto on April 09, 2023, 09:48:00 PMI'm an enthusiastic CD collector. I had long-time and costly experience with LP too but I realized that LP is not for me (although I must admit that LP packaging and booklets are unrivaled). My collection contains only original factory produced CDs (I have many CDs even from the beginning of the CD, 1982 and 1983).
I'm thinking about that main long-time problem with CD is not the deterioration of discs. The main problem will be lack of players. As far as I know today currently one Chinese factory produces laser pick-ups. Even the most expensive CD players use that cheap pick-up because there is no another. I use an old Sony ES from the 90s. Old players don't have replacement pick-ups or mechanism. If owner find another working compatible player in reasonable price, he is lucky. If don't, then he can throw out even the most expensive player. If the last factory stops pickup production, CDs will last as long as players work.
I know fellow hi-fi owners who sold all CDs not because deterioration of discs. Their player broke down many times and finally they said they don't want to buy new. Streaming is fine for them.
That is depressing news. I am glad that I own a nice Audiolab 6000 cd transport. In the future we might be reverting back to dvd players if that factory closes.
Quote from: Roy Bland on April 10, 2023, 07:17:19 AMDear DavidW
unfortunately I can't agree on the other hand if an archaic and expensive medium like long playing is resurrected I don't see why compact discs should disappear
Best
LP records require a mechanical gadget and some analog electronics, which can be made by a skilled craftsman. A CD player requires integrated circuit chips and some very high performance digitally controlled mechanical components. It has to position a read head with micron accuracy to read a spinning disc. These were colossally expensive until they were mass produced in enormous quantities.
CD audio players may go away, but CD/DVD/Bluray-ROM devices show no signs of going away anytime soon. I listen to all of my CDs as FLAC files. I haven't listened to a CD on a dedicated player in close to a decade, I think.
Quote from: Roy Bland on April 10, 2023, 07:17:19 AMDear DavidW
unfortunately I can't agree on the other hand if an archaic and expensive medium like long playing is resurrected I don't see why compact discs should disappear
Best
Oh no I totally agree with you. And I think that one day there will be a cd revival just as we are in an lp revival.
Quote from: DavidW on April 10, 2023, 07:43:29 AMOh no I totally agree with you. And I think that one day there will be a cd revival just as we are in an lp revival.
Maybe so, but LPs had one thing going for them, not just the romanticized inconvenience. They sound different (even if that difference is in an objective sense distortion and noise). There is no difference between sending data to a DAC from an optical transport or from a file on some sort of storage device.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 10, 2023, 07:24:10 AMI haven't listened to a CD on a dedicated player in close to a decade, I think.
That makes two of us.
I had mixed results with self-burned CDs. Too many of them would start having problems in the later tracks (presumably because of the change in spin speed as you move to the outside of the disc). If a recording was long enough I might have to try 2 or 3 times to get one that worked properly throughout.
It's quite some time since I bothered. While I still prefer purchasing CDs whenever the option exists, if I only have something in a computer file I would probably just keep it that way now, not least because I have effective ways to stream to my CD unit. Every time you shift format it presents at least a slight risk of losing quality. Actually I'm not 100% certain whether the current computer has a burner, because it's so long since I tried.
Quote from: Florestan on April 11, 2023, 05:13:37 AMThat makes two of us.
For me it's about... 6 minutes.
Quote from: DavidW on April 10, 2023, 06:43:50 AMThat has to be the most unpopular change.org petition I've ever seen!
And yet it will be exactly as successful as other change.org petitions.
Streaming killed optical media years ago.
Streaming clearly has not killed CDs given that a very large number of new releases are still issued on CD.
I don't just mean classical releases either.
Quote from: Roberto on April 09, 2023, 09:48:00 PMTheir player broke down many times and finally they said they don't want to buy new. Streaming is fine for them.
Within six years two rather expensive NAIM CD players have broken down for me. So now I have got a Rega CD player and cross my fingers. Else I think I have to turn to DVD players.
Quote from: Madiel on April 11, 2023, 05:13:57 AMI had mixed results with self-burned CDs. Too many of them would start having problems in the later tracks (presumably because of the change in spin speed as you move to the outside of the disc). If a recording was long enough I might have to try 2 or 3 times to get one that worked properly throughout.
I had similar problems. But a new CD burner (cost 100 EURO's) solved the problems.
Quote from: premont on March 01, 2023, 07:28:04 AMI digtized all my LPs and tapes and burnt them to CDR with a Maranz CD recorder in the early 1990es, and they all still play well after thirty years. Of course they have been stored dark and not too hot.
It is very dependent on storage. Years ago when my car had a CD player I would burn CDs to play in the car because I didn't want to take my CD collection into the car. The burned CDs deteriorated rapidly when the car was subject to summer heat.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 11, 2023, 04:57:18 AMMaybe so, but LPs had one thing going for them, not just the romanticized inconvenience. They sound different (even if that difference is in an objective sense distortion and noise). There is no difference between sending data to a DAC from an optical transport or from a file on some sort of storage device.
I don't think that people are buying vinyl for the sound quality. I think they are buying it for the same reason that dumb phones are becoming popular again and print books outsell ebooks by a country mile. It is a rejection of the always online culture that has crept into our lives.
Quote from: DavidW on April 11, 2023, 06:21:39 AMI don't think that people are buying vinyl for the sound quality. I think they are buying it for the same reason that dumb phones are becoming popular again and print books outsell ebooks by a country mile. It is a rejection of the always online culture that has crept into our lives.
Different people have different reasons. People rejecting streaming for LPs probably are probably rejecting online culture. People rejecting CDs are probably drawn to the "warm" sound. I have no idea what view is more prevalent.
Regarding ebooks, I think a major obstacle for adoption is the fact that publishers make ebooks almost as expensive as hardcover books. It feels like a ripoff to get just a file for the same price when you have relieved them of the trouble of printing the book. I use bookbub, which sends be notices of ebook deals. 99% of the ebooks I buy cost me $1.99.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 11, 2023, 06:46:53 AMDifferent people have different reasons. People rejecting streaming for LPs probably are probably rejecting online culture. People rejecting CDs are probably drawn to the "warm" sound. I have no idea what view is more prevalent.
Regarding ebooks, I think a major obstacle for adoption is the fact that publishers make ebooks almost as expensive as hardcover books. It feels like a ripoff to get just a file for the same price when you have relieved them of the trouble of printing the book. I use bookbub, which sends be notices of ebook deals. 99% of the ebooks I buy cost me $1.99.
You know I only recently discovered bookbub despite being into ereading for so long. My problem is that if it even seems vaguely interesting at $2 I'll buy it. I've ended up with an overly large digital library!
Quote from: Roberto on April 09, 2023, 09:48:00 PMI'm an enthusiastic CD collector. I had long-time and costly experience with LP too but I realized that LP is not for me (although I must admit that LP packaging and booklets are unrivaled). My collection contains only original factory produced CDs (I have many CDs even from the beginning of the CD, 1982 and 1983).
I'm thinking about that main long-time problem with CD is not the deterioration of discs. The main problem will be lack of players. As far as I know today currently one Chinese factory produces laser pick-ups. Even the most expensive CD players use that cheap pick-up because there is no another. I use an old Sony ES from the 90s. Old players don't have replacement pick-ups or mechanism. If owner find another working compatible player in reasonable price, he is lucky. If don't, then he can throw out even the most expensive player. If the last factory stops pickup production, CDs will last as long as players work.
I know fellow hi-fi owners who sold all CDs not because deterioration of discs. Their player broke down many times and finally they said they don't want to buy new. Streaming is fine for them.
I'm curious as to where you heard that only one factory was producing the lasers? And what is the name of the company and factory. Not saying that your info is wrong, but am curious.
PD
Quote from: DavidW on April 11, 2023, 06:21:39 AMa rejection of the always online culture that has crept into our lives.
As a devoted, always online GMGer, I reject this rejection. 😁
Quote from: Florestan on April 11, 2023, 12:50:20 PMAs a devoted, always online GMGer, I reject this rejection. 😁
Sometimes GMG isn't working. What then?
Quote from: Madiel on April 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PMSometimes GMG isn't working. What then?
I break plates, growl and howl and one should better stay away from me... ;D >:D
Now seriously, I just pick up a book from the tall pile of un-read ones I accumulated over the years.
Quote from: DavidW on April 11, 2023, 10:07:39 AMYou know I only recently discovered bookbub despite being into ereading for so long. My problem is that if it even seems vaguely interesting at $2 I'll buy it. I've ended up with an overly large digital library!
I avoided that trap by following my favorite authors on bookbub. Then I get a separate notice when a book by one of my authors is discounted. I usually ignore the curated lists they send me, but take note of offers on my favorite authors. Often when an author publishes a new work one of their prior works gets discounted as some sort of promotional strategy.
Of course, if I
really want something (usually a new release) I will get it at full price but that is out of the ordinary.
Quote from: DavidW on April 11, 2023, 06:21:39 AMI don't think that people are buying vinyl for the sound quality. I think they are buying it for the same reason that dumb phones are becoming popular again and print books outsell ebooks by a country mile. It is a rejection of the always online culture that has crept into our lives.
Vinyl is my main source but due to circumstances I was forced to forgo playing LPs for over a month and listening to the far more convenient CD which was a pleasure. Returning to LP after a hiatus surprised me as the musical presentation and experience is so different between the two formats. I have no argument with Spotted Horses that the for me the magical ingredient of LP is distortion and noise, maybe so. Whatever, the subjective emotional power of music is stronger in an analogue domain.
Quote from: Irons on April 13, 2023, 05:39:02 AMVinyl is my main source but due to circumstances I was forced to forgo playing LPs for over a month and listening to the far more convenient CD which was a pleasure. Returning to LP after a hiatus surprised me as the musical presentation and experience is so different between the two formats. I have no argument with Spotted Horses that the for me the magical ingredient of LP is distortion and noise, maybe so. Whatever, the subjective emotional power of music is stronger in an analogue domain.
I'm not saying that it doesn't sound different. I am saying you're not the primary demographic. A big chunk of the sales are coming from Gen Z and Millenials. Not audiophiles, who are always in the minority. And they are not seeking out old albums either, it is new releases like Lana Del Rey and Taylor Swift. They are buying them because of their tangible nature.
https://www.insideradio.com/free/whos-driving-up-vinyl-lp-sales-in-2022-its-probably-not-who-you-think/article_925df5ae-0987-11ed-9061-432d41ea0a23.html (https://www.insideradio.com/free/whos-driving-up-vinyl-lp-sales-in-2022-its-probably-not-who-you-think/article_925df5ae-0987-11ed-9061-432d41ea0a23.html)
https://www.vinylmeplease.com/blogs/magazine/generation-z-vinyl-resurgence (https://www.vinylmeplease.com/blogs/magazine/generation-z-vinyl-resurgence)
I'm not saying that your experience isn't valid. Just that it has really nothing to do with the resurgence.
I think one reason of the success of the LP in the 21th century is that this medium is quite simple, and even its operation gives visual pleasure to the owner. It has a kind of ceremony when the owner puts the record, cleans the dust, etc. If somebody likes this, no other medium gives it.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 11, 2023, 12:38:35 PMI'm curious as to where you heard that only one factory was producing the lasers? And what is the name of the company and factory. Not saying that your info is wrong, but am curious.
PD
I don't remember. I changed my whole hi-fi system 2 years ago and I read much about CD players at that time. I tried a Heed CD player too. Even its manufacturer said that they had to stop using earlier very good Sanyo pickup because its manufacturer stopped its production too. Or he wrote it in a local forum, I don't remember. It's just an addition. I've read about that today even the most expensive Accuphase CD players use $12 mechanism because there is no another (in the 90's they used Sony's high-end linear drive mechanism). There are no replacement SACD pickups for players produced in the 2000's because factories stopped the production long ago. When I took my player to the local service they said if its linear drive mechanism stops working, I can throw out the player because is's impossible now to acquire spare parts. I think this is logical: if the market falls down, factories close.
Maybe DVD or other video disc player market lasts longer but I think eventually its market will disappear also because of streaming.
Quote from: Roberto on April 13, 2023, 12:35:29 PMI don't remember. I changed my whole hi-fi system 2 years ago and I read much about CD players at that time. I tried a Heed CD player too. Even its manufacturer said that they had to stop using earlier very good Sanyo pickup because its manufacturer stopped its production too. Or he wrote it in a local forum, I don't remember. It's just an addition. I've read about that today even the most expensive Accuphase CD players use $12 mechanism because there is no another (in the 90's they used Sony's high-end linear drive mechanism). There are no replacement SACD pickups for players produced in the 2000's because factories stopped the production long ago. When I took my player to the local service they said if its linear drive mechanism stops working, I can throw out the player because is's impossible now to acquire spare parts. I think this is logical: if the market falls down, factories close.
Maybe DVD or other video disc player market lasts longer but I think eventually its market will disappear also because of streaming.
Thank you for the info. Well, hopefully my "beast" will last for quite some time longer (knock on wood). I have a Pioneer player which I quite like. It plays: CDs, DVDs, SACDs, and DVD-Audios. I use it mostly for listening to music (through my main setup).
Short of watching some Youtube videos or (very rarely) a concert online, I haven't (yet?) given in to subscribing to online streaming.
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 14, 2023, 03:38:21 AMThank you for the info. Well, hopefully my "beast" will last for quite some time longer (knock on wood). I have a Pioneer player which I quite like. It plays: CDs, DVDs, SACDs, and DVD-Audios. I use it mostly for listening to music (through my main setup).
Short of watching some Youtube videos or (very rarely) a concert online, I haven't (yet?) given in to subscribing to online streaming.
PD
Dvds are still sold everywhere, and so many titles never made it to streaming. Combine that with the frustration many feel over the fragmented landscape (due to so many competing services splitting content) and I think that it is far less likely to see dvds and their players die anytime soon if at all. Especially now that the second golden age of streaming is well behind us.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2023, 06:46:13 AMDvds are still sold everywhere, and so many titles never made it to streaming. Combine that with the frustration many feel over the fragmented landscape (due to so many competing services splitting content) and I think that it is far less likely to see dvds and their players die anytime soon if at all. Especially now that the second golden age of streaming is well behind us.
Do you also use your DVD player for music David? And if so, what formats can you play on it?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 14, 2023, 07:39:16 AMDo you also use your DVD player for music David? And if so, what formats can you play on it?
PD
I used to. I had an Oppo that was a universal player. It supported cd, dvd, dvd-audio, and sacd. I have a dedicated cd transport now though. It only plays cds, but its selling point is that it can play even heavily scratched cds.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2023, 08:28:50 AMI used to. I had an Oppo that was a universal player. It supported cd, dvd, dvd-audio, and sacd. I have a dedicated cd transport now though. It only plays cds, but its selling point is that it can play even heavily scratched cds.
Ah, a real workhorse of a CD player then! What brand is it?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 14, 2023, 08:36:04 AMAh, a real workhorse of a CD player then! What brand is it?
PD
Audiolab.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2023, 09:39:06 AMAudiolab.
Interesting about the scratch bit. Wondering how that works/differs from what I have? From what I recall, sometimes my Pioneer won't like "scratched things" (like stuff that I borrow from the library--normally, I steer clear of purchasing CDs if there are a lot of scratches on them); however, my inexpensive *under-the-counter combo CD player & radio which I have in the kitchen oftentimes does better with them. $600 vs. $60...go figure! The sound though is very good (re Pioneer) and I like that I can play different formats on them--though I have a total of one DVD-audio/video (one of those strange two-sided contraptions) and I think maybe also one straight SACD (the rest are your usual hybrids).
*And, yes, it sounds "tinny", but it's nice to be able to listen to either a CD or NPR programs whilst working in the kitchen.
PD
PD, I've had the same experience. I used to have a Marantz player that would cry over the smallest scratch but switch to literally anything else and the cd would play fine.
My old CD player refused to cope with certain discs that had a slick upper surface (the printed part, which on classical CDs tends to be fairly generic black writing on a silver surface but not always, and with pop can vary a lot more).
So I am very familiar with the fact that different players have different tolerances.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2023, 12:23:38 PMPD, I've had the same experience. I used to have a Marantz player that would cry over the smallest scratch but switch to literally anything else and the cd would play fine.
Quote from: Madiel on April 14, 2023, 01:29:27 PMMy old CD player refused to cope with certain discs that had a slick upper surface (the printed part, which on classical CDs tends to be fairly generic black writing on a silver surface but not always, and with pop can vary a lot more).
So I am very familiar with the fact that different players have different tolerances.
So, it goes to show [yet again] that nothing's perfect in life....
PD
Would you care to expand rather then simply posting a link to an article that isn't in English?
I cannot be bothered attempting to translate that on my mobile phone.
But on a laptop or tablet it's really easy...
Quote from: ritter on May 11, 2024, 12:19:45 PMBut on a laptop or tablet it's really easy...
When I get back to within reach of my laptop in another 10 weeks I'll be sure to remember that.
Quote from: Madiel on May 11, 2024, 01:56:10 PMWhen I get back to within reach of my laptop in another 10 weeks I'll be sure to remember that.
Great. And I'm confident that webpage will still be available in 10 weeks, so it is all good.
I see that detecting sarcasm is not your strong point. Yes, the webpage will still be there. This conversation, however, will have stagnated. If you can call someone posting an untranslated link a "conversation", once upon a time it was called a breach of forum etiquette.
"Para ti la perra gorda"... That should be easy to translate, even on a phone. But in case it is not, it roughly means "keep the change".
Enjoy your holiday.
I think it started before streaming. Once it became easy and cheap to order cds online, how many of us end up hoarding unopened cds? And then digital downloads were even cheaper and more convenient. Streaming is certainly the culmination of that trend. But in all that time it seems like more and more recordings are released. Combine all that and yes recorded music has incredibly deflated in price and perceived value.
Most of my students walk around with earbuds perpetually in their ears. Music has become a constant background soundtrack. Very different from the special experience you get from a live concert.
Thanks. It was not only the lack of a translation that was annoying but the lack of any actual content. I've now got more commentary out of people about translations than discussion about CDs. DavidW being the first to actually say something relevant to the topic of the thread.
Quote from: Roy Bland on May 11, 2024, 05:17:08 PMI note that English-speaking tourists in Italy seem to be able decipher our arduous language and in Italian forums there is no demand for translation from English while terms derived from this language abound )furthermore, this makes the pages heavier and more difficult to load
You seem to imply that being able to "decipher" Italian tourist signs, greetings and food/beverage names is the same as being able to read a whole article in Italian. This might be true for people whose native language is a Romance one, like me, for instance; I never studied Italian yet I understand it alright, both written and spoken. For native speakers of non-Romance languages, though, this implication is less obvious and I'm not sure that a native English speaker who has not studied Italian could make much of that article.
In another thread you posted a link to an article in Romanian. As an Italian, you may have understood it partially or wholly, but in your opinion, how many other GMGers beside me have read it? This is an international forum. For better or worse, the present-day lingua franca is English. Linking to articles or pages written in other languages without providing an English summary or an English translation of at least the most important points is inappropriate because in so doing you assume either that everyone can read that language or that everyone is sufficiently interested in the topic of the article as to take the trouble to translate it themselves. Both assumptions are false.