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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Shatera on March 12, 2023, 11:14:19 PM

Title: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Shatera on March 12, 2023, 11:14:19 PM
Updated
Experiment

Hello.  My name is Tyson Platt, and I am a Professor of Psychology at Alabama State University.  I am currently investigating how listeners detect and experience emotional content in experimental music.  To that end, I need your help!  I am conducting an experiment on the detection of emotional content in experimental music, and I am seeking participants for the experiment.  If you are interested in participating in the experiment, please follow this link to learn more about the research and participate in the experiment.  The experiment will take approximately 20 minutes to complete.  During the experiment, you will be asked to listen to a clip of music and indicate what emotional content you detect in the music.  You will not be asked to provide any identifiable information (e.g., name, address, etc.) during the experiment.  Please be aware that you must be at least 18 years of age to participate in the experiment.  If you are willing to participate in this research, please only complete the experiment once.  Thank you for your help.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DrewAustin
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 14, 2023, 11:40:39 AM
The link to the survey does not work.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 14, 2023, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 14, 2023, 11:40:39 AMThe link to the survey does not work.

The link is meant to be this: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/debarre

OP, this forum is small and we are all on different time zones.  Some patience please.  If anyone chooses to participate, it might still take 2-3 days.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: vers la flamme on March 14, 2023, 04:23:01 PM
Done! I wanna read the paper when it's done  ;D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 12:18:41 PM
Looks like a hoax. I mean, is Jean DeBarre even a real composer? I very much doubt it. Besides Google never having heard about him, the description of his life* and work is completely at odd with the musical clip, which sounds like randomly generated sounds. ;D

* "the most sought-after composer in Paris", are we supposed to take this b****t seriously?
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: vers la flamme on March 15, 2023, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 12:18:41 PMLooks like a hoax. I mean, is Jean DeBarre even a real composer? I very much doubt it. Besides Google never having heard about him, the description of his life* and work is completely at odd with the musical clip, which sounds like randomly generated sounds. ;D

* "the most sought-after composer in Paris", are we supposed to take this b****t seriously?

Obviously, it's not a real composer, and I don't think the makers of the study are trying to convince anyone that he is. I have a feeling you missed the point  ;D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 15, 2023, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 12:18:41 PMLooks like a hoax. I mean, is Jean DeBarre even a real composer? I very much doubt it. Besides Google never having heard about him, the description of his life* and work is completely at odd with the musical clip, which sounds like randomly generated sounds. ;D

* "the most sought-after composer in Paris", are we supposed to take this b****t seriously?

That is funny because while I would not describe the music as blissful, it did sound humorous, mellow and light hearted to me.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 11:01:26 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 15, 2023, 01:34:41 PMObviously, it's not a real composer, and I don't think the makers of the study are trying to convince anyone that he is. I have a feeling you missed the point  ;D

My point is that I don't like to be duped, not even in academic interest.  ;D

I'm sure that many, if not most, who took the test and had little or no knowledge of 20th-century French music genuinely believed that Jean DeBarre was real.

Anyway, gotta love pronouncing "Jean" as "gin".  :D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: DavidW on March 15, 2023, 02:15:04 PMThat is funny because while I would not describe the music as blissful, it did sound humorous, mellow and light hearted to me.

To use Tyson Platt's terminology, I heard or felt no emotion at all. A flushing toilet or the traffic outside would have sounded all the same to me. I guess I'm a sociopath.  ;D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 11:23:32 PM
Btw:

https://soundcloud.com/tyson-platt-1 (https://soundcloud.com/tyson-platt-1)

https://homerecording.com/bbs/threads/emotion-in-music-experiment.420338/#post-4750712 (https://homerecording.com/bbs/threads/emotion-in-music-experiment.420338/#post-4750712)



Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: vers la flamme on March 16, 2023, 02:40:51 AM
Quote from: Florestan on March 15, 2023, 11:23:32 PMBtw:

https://soundcloud.com/tyson-platt-1 (https://soundcloud.com/tyson-platt-1)

https://homerecording.com/bbs/threads/emotion-in-music-experiment.420338/#post-4750712 (https://homerecording.com/bbs/threads/emotion-in-music-experiment.420338/#post-4750712)





Interesting that you and that guy had the same very strong negative reaction to this study. That's gotta be worth something, academically, on its own.  ;)
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 16, 2023, 02:49:36 AM
I had done the survey a few days ago and I just tried to rush through answering the questions so it probably wasn't an accurate assessment. And now I just feel duped.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 16, 2023, 03:15:32 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 16, 2023, 02:49:36 AMI had done the survey a few days ago and I just tried to rush through answering the questions so it probably wasn't an accurate assessment. And now I just feel duped.

What, you've never heard of the famous Jean DeBarre?!?  Debussy credited him with teaching him the importance of bliss in music.  He never would have wrote Pelléas et Mélisande if he wasn't so deeply inspired by DeBarre's work.  You must have missed the enormous thread on DeBarre that dwarfs even the Havergal Brian thread!
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 16, 2023, 03:26:59 AM
Quote from: DavidW on March 16, 2023, 03:15:32 AMWhat, you've never heard of the famous Jean DeBarre?!?  Debussy credited him with teaching him the importance of bliss in music.  He never would have wrote Pelléas et Mélisande if he wasn't so deeply inspired by DeBarre's work

Actually, that's not Jean DeBarre, he was born in 1919. It's Jean-Marie DeBarre, his father's uncle, born in 1841. In the 1870s he was the  most sought-after composer in Sainte-Fredegonde-de-Chateaulouche.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: pjme on March 17, 2023, 07:43:52 AM
It is clearly stated that De Barre is a FICTIONAL composer.... :)
Wish he was real though and looking like this, par example...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Barre_Jean-Auguste_par_Nadar.jpg/390px-Barre_Jean-Auguste_par_Nadar.jpg)

Jean Auguste Barre par Nadar
and it would sound like this ...


or

(https://i.discogs.com/iuKGygsujRV1VXPeU7sEsLRljHAmXFyuW-Z3yXGXs_o/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTk5ODM0/Ny0xNDAyMDgzNTc4/LTQyMjUuanBlZw.jpeg)

Michel de la Barre (c. 1675 – 15 March 1745)

or is it ...Jean De Barre (de mesure (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barre_de_mesure))? ;D



Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 17, 2023, 10:47:05 AM
Quote from: pjme on March 17, 2023, 07:43:52 AMIt is clearly stated that De Barre is a FICTIONAL composer.... :)
Wish he was real though and looking like this, par example...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Barre_Jean-Auguste_par_Nadar.jpg/390px-Barre_Jean-Auguste_par_Nadar.jpg)

Jean Auguste Barre par Nadar
and it would sound like this ...







The "French Symphony" is a real find: one of the best works by Theodore Dubois.

Does anyone recognize the work in the experiment?

It sounds like an imitation of Webern's Concerto for 9 Instruments or Improvise' by Pierre Boulez.

Those works, however, are more interesting.

Somebody suggested that it was computer-generated (?).
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Shatera on March 21, 2023, 01:22:25 PM
Quote from: Shatera on March 12, 2023, 11:14:19 PMUpdated
Experiment

Hello.  My name is Tyson
Quote from: Shatera on March 12, 2023, 11:14:19 PMUpdated
Experiment

Hello.  My name is Tyson Platt, and I am a Professor of Psychology at Alabama State University.  I am currently investigating how listeners detect and experience emotional content in experimental music.  To that end, I need your help!  I am conducting an experiment on the detection of emotional content in experimental music, and I am seeking participants for the experiment.  If you are interested in participating in the experiment, please follow this link to learn more about the research and participate in the experiment.  The experiment will take approximately 20 minutes to complete.  During the experiment, you will be asked to listen to a clip of music and indicate what emotional content you detect in the music.  You will not be asked to provide any identifiable information (e.g., name, address, etc.) during the experiment.  Please be aware that you must be at least 18 years of age to participate in the experiment.  If you are willing to participate in this research, please only complete the experiment once.  Thank you for your help.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DrewAustin
Platt, and I am a Professor of Psychology at Alabama State University.  I am currently investigating how listeners detect and experience emotional content in experimental music.  To that end, I need your help!  I am conducting an experiment on the detection of emotional content in experimental music, and I am seeking participants for the experiment.  If you are interested in participating in the experiment, please follow this link to learn more about the research and participate in the experiment.  The experiment will take approximately 20 minutes to complete.  During the experiment, you will be asked to listen to a clip of music and indicate what emotional content you detect in the music.  You will not be asked to provide any identifiable information (e.g., name, address, etc.) during the experiment.  Please be aware that you must be at least 18 years of age to participate in the experiment.  If you are willing to participate in this research, please only complete the experiment once.  Thank you for your help.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DrewAustin
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: SimonNZ on March 21, 2023, 03:57:24 PM
Is this a Turing test for someone trying to develop and ultimately market an AI?

If so I'm going to want to be paid for my assistance.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 22, 2023, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: SimonNZ on March 21, 2023, 03:57:24 PMIs this a Turing test for someone trying to develop and ultimately market an AI?

If so I'm going to want to be paid for my assistance.


I have been skeptical of this topic somewhat, but the last non-comment from "Shatera"/Prof. Tyson Platt made me wonder even more!

So I found that a Professor Tyson Platt does indeed teach at an Alabama university: I sent him an e-mail inquiring whether this topic is really from him.

No answer yet, but it is still early.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 22, 2023, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 22, 2023, 11:09:04 AMI have been skeptical of this topic somewhat, but the last non-comment from "Shatera"/Prof. Tyson Platt made me wonder even more!

So I found that a Professor Tyson Platt does indeed teach at an Alabama university: I sent him an e-mail inquiring whether this topic is really from him.

No answer yet, but it is still early.

One Tyson Platt does have a soundcloud account with three clips, where one and the same "music" is ascribed to three  different fictional composers (see my reply #9).

It's most certainly a hoax. Whether Prof. Platt (whose reality I also checked a week ago) is consciously involved or not, I cannot tell.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 23, 2023, 07:45:47 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 22, 2023, 11:09:04 AMI have been skeptical of this topic somewhat, but the last non-comment from "Shatera"/Prof. Tyson Platt made me wonder even more!

So I found that a Professor Tyson Platt does indeed teach at an Alabama university: I sent him an e-mail inquiring whether this topic is really from him.

No answer yet, but it is still early.

Any word yet Cato?  :)
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 23, 2023, 11:00:16 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 23, 2023, 07:45:47 AMAny word yet Cato?  :)


I just checked (3:00 P.M. E.S.T.) and no response yet.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 23, 2023, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 23, 2023, 11:00:16 AMI just checked (3:00 P.M. E.S.T.) and no response yet.

I doubt you'll get any.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 23, 2023, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Florestan on March 23, 2023, 11:04:55 AMI doubt you'll get any.


I wrote again just now, and included the Chair of the Psychology Department as a recipient.

Perhaps they have a Spring Vacation right now.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 23, 2023, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: Cato on March 23, 2023, 01:38:37 PMI wrote again just now, and included the Chair of the Psychology Department as a recipient.

Perhaps they have a Spring Vacation right now.

My experience is that emails from external to the school end up in the spam folder without the end user being aware.  I've had important requests for recommendations for students from MIT and various honors colleges almost trashed due to Outlook over-aggressively sending them to the junk folder.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 23, 2023, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: DavidW on March 23, 2023, 02:25:35 PMMy experience is that emails from external to the school end up in the spam folder without the end user being aware.  I've had important requests for recommendations for students from MIT and various honors colleges almost trashed due to Outlook over-aggressively sending them to the junk folder.


Wow!  Well, I can always send a regular letter, if I never hear anything!
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 24, 2023, 01:38:11 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 23, 2023, 02:29:38 PMWow!  Well, I can always send a regular letter, if I never hear anything!

It's not worth the trouble, actually.  :D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment: It is Legitimate!
Post by: Cato on March 25, 2023, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 23, 2023, 07:45:47 AMAny word yet Cato?  :)


Yes indeed!

Professor Tyson Platt wrote to me today with this explanation:

Quote


I apologize for the delay in my response.  My students are currently on Spring Break, so I decided to take the opportunity to take a few days off with my family.  I am sorry for any confusion related to my experiment and the forum posts. 

I am the person conducting the experiment, but I am using three research assistants (Shatera being one of them) to help me collect data.  Per the IRB protocol that was approved by my university, the recruitment statement has to be the same everywhere I post it. 

Hence, the post that begins, "Hello.  My name is Tyson Platt, and I am a Professor of Psychology at Alabama State University..." appears in several forums right now. 

I hope that the post is not an intrusion on the forum or in conflict with forum rules.  I asked my research assistants to make several posts to become acclimated with the forum prior to posting the announcement, and I hope they did so.

I asked my research assistants to post in a variety of specialized forums because I want to have adequate representation of active music listeners in my data set. 

I am exploring how listeners attribute emotional content to unfamiliar musical forms, and I expect to find a relationship between the amount of time subjects spend actively listening to music and their likelihood of perceiving emotional content in music. 

Unfortunately, when I recruit from social media, I tend to get a strong bias towards casual listening and a preference for popular music.
 

If my research assistant has run afoul of forum rules, please let me know and I will ask that they remove the post.


My emphasis above.

So, it is in fact an experiment from a professor of Psychology.

Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 25, 2023, 01:25:54 PM
Quote from: Cato on March 25, 2023, 01:17:16 PMYes indeed!

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad the professor responded to you. 🙂
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 25, 2023, 04:10:06 PM
Interestingly enough, Shatera made no attempt to acclimate to this forum nor even engage with us in direct questions or replies.  The student has much to learn.

By putting us on edge and making us suspicious some of us also didn't even take the survey seriously, the opposite result the professor wanted.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 26, 2023, 06:36:42 AM
Quote from: DavidW on March 25, 2023, 04:10:06 PMInterestingly enough, Shatera made no attempt to acclimate to this forum nor even engage with us in direct questions or replies.  The student has much to learn.

By putting us on edge and making us suspicious some of us also didn't even take the survey seriously, the opposite result the professor wanted.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Cato on March 27, 2023, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: DavidW on March 25, 2023, 04:10:06 PMInterestingly enough, Shatera made no attempt to acclimate to this forum nor even engage with us in direct questions or replies.  The student has much to learn.

By putting us on edge and making us suspicious some of us also didn't even take the survey seriously, the opposite result the professor wanted.



I sent Professor Platt David W.'s comment above and received this response:


Quote"Thank you for this information.  I have a meeting with my research assistants later today, and I will be sure to address the issue.  Please accept my apologies for the manner in which the post was made." 



So, if anyone is hesitant about the experiment, it is legitimate.

And we at G-M-G were chosen because it is assumed that we are NOT "casual listeners."  ;)
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: relm1 on March 27, 2023, 05:36:50 AM
I think they should throw out their results since some took the survey finding it a bot or suspicious intent invalidating the data quality and try again with better community engagement as now that I've read the professor's response, would like to have participated but find there is no point now...the integrity was compromised. 
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 27, 2023, 05:37:46 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 27, 2023, 05:30:31 AMI sent Professor Platt David W.'s comment above and received this response:



So, if anyone is hesitant about the experiment, it is legitimate.

And we at G-M-G were chosen because it is assumed that we are NOT "casual listeners."  ;)


Looks like the only misjudgement was assigning Shatera the task of approaching the non-casual listeners of GMG. His or her capabilities in this respect were greatly lacking.  ;D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: relm1 on March 27, 2023, 04:30:14 PM
Quote from: Florestan on March 27, 2023, 05:37:46 AMLooks like the only misjudgement was assigning Shatera the task of approaching the non-casual listeners of GMG. His or her capabilities in this respect were greatly lacking.  ;D
I think our communal response should be constructive rather than critical. How this could have worked mutually rather than being critical of "her capabilities in this respect were greatly lacking".  They are students and this is a learning opportunity.  It doesn't seem like a bad thing to try, then try again.  That's a major part of learning. 
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 28, 2023, 12:27:00 AM
Quote from: relm1 on March 27, 2023, 04:30:14 PMI think our communal response should be constructive rather than critical. How this could have worked mutually rather than being critical of "her capabilities in this respect were greatly lacking".  They are students and this is a learning opportunity.  It doesn't seem like a bad thing to try, then try again.  That's a major part of learning. 

You think I'm being unfairly critical of Shatera? Please, consider the facts,

1. S/he came here and, without as much as a minimal introduction about who s/he is and what are their interests with respect to classical music, forwarded us a message containing a non-functional link and basically told us "Here, take this test!"

2. When nobody took it, s/he returned with a remainder that we should better take the test.

3. And now, look what s/he's done, probably after the meeting with prof. Platt: edited the OP making it worse than it was initially (at least, initially it contained a "Hi, I am Shatera!") and deleted their second post altogether.

I'm sorry but I can't see it any other way: s/he is not only not up to the task but also lacks basic manners. Prof. Platt should choose his assistants more carefully --- and I would't mind if Cato forwarded my opinion this to him.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: relm1 on March 28, 2023, 05:50:28 AM
Quote from: Florestan on March 28, 2023, 12:27:00 AMYou think I'm being unfairly critical of Shatera? Please, consider the facts,

1. S/he came here and, without as much as a minimal introduction about who s/he is and what are their interests with respect to classical music, forwarded us a message containing a non-functional link and basically told us "Here, take this test!"

2. When nobody took it, s/he returned with a remainder that we should better take the test.

3. And now, look what s/he's done, probably after the meeting with prof. Platt: edited the OP making it worse than it was initially (at least, initially it contained a "Hi, I am Shatera!") and deleted their second post altogether.

I'm sorry but I can't see it any other way: s/he is not only not up to the task but also lacks basic manners. Prof. Platt should choose his assistants more carefully --- and I would't mind if Cato forwarded my opinion this to him.

I do.  The point was made, the professor agreed and said he'd discuss with them.  You seem to be on a war path now wanting s/he fired.  Calm down.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Florestan on March 28, 2023, 05:57:41 AM
Quote from: relm1 on March 28, 2023, 05:50:28 AMI do.

Okay.

Quote from: relm1 on March 28, 2023, 05:50:28 AMThe point was made, the professor agreed and said he'd discuss with them.

Yes. And presumably after the discussion Shatera edited their posts, for the worse.

Quote from: relm1 on March 28, 2023, 05:50:28 AMYou seem to be on a war path now wanting s/he fired.

You're wrong. I just stated my opinion.

Quote from: relm1 on March 28, 2023, 05:50:28 AMCalm down.

I'm very calm and had been all day long.
 




Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: DavidW on March 28, 2023, 06:29:31 AM
I would actually put the blame on the prof.  There is a tendency for professors to treat grad students as postdocs when they really should have a "trust but verify" attitude.  I get that they want their students to help their success in generating papers, but the flip side to that is that they need to mentor them more than I think most faculty realize.

The prof in question told his students what he wanted and why, but failed to follow through even though his name goes on the paper.
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 28, 2023, 08:15:28 AM
I think Professor Platt could just view the comments of this thread to glean the data he needs.  ;D
Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: pjme on March 29, 2023, 04:18:16 AM
Hey....on january 26th Shatera registered at "Classical music suggestions".

Shatera (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,32219.0.html)

So, (s)he actually was lurking already...?

Title: Re: Emotion in Classical Music Experiment
Post by: Brahmsian on March 29, 2023, 04:21:15 AM
Quote from: pjme on March 29, 2023, 04:18:16 AMHey....on january 26th Shatera registered at "Classical music suggestions".

Shatera (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,32219.0.html)

So, (s)he actually was lurking already...?



Looks like it was more to "check a box" to fulfill a requirement of the professor.