GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Irons on November 21, 2023, 01:30:25 PM

Title: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 21, 2023, 01:30:25 PM
Kicking off at a high water mark of the RCA catalogue.

Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel)/ A Night on Bald Mountain.

Recorded December 7.1957.

Produced by Richard Mohr. Recording Engineer Lewis Layton.

(https://i.imgur.com/97tyMWp.jpg)

"Pictures" is one of the great recordings of 20c. Fritz Reiner was a grade one so and so who nonetheless or more likely the reason why he achieved such astonishing results with his Chicago orchestra. Perfection and precision are his mantra. Some say he overdoes the precision, I have never subscribed to that, listening to his "Bydlo" in open mouthed astonishment.

Copland: Billy the Kid / Rodeo.

Recorded February 9, 1960.

Produced by John Pfeiffer. Recording Engineer Lewis Layton.

(https://i.imgur.com/iOOYkRl.jpg)

A wider stereo image then the Reiner, more Hi-Fi. Amazing that even the acoustic can be heard clearly from a recording of 60+ years. I hear the Manhattan Centre, New York to be a bigger venue then Orchestra Hall, Chicago. Can an American poster enlighten me if this is so?
Performances can be compared with Bernstein and Copland himself, I think. "Billy the Kid" gun battle particularly spectacular. However, the performance of "Rodeo" may just edge the former.   



   
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 21, 2023, 02:18:17 PM
I love many recordings of the Living Stereo and Living Presence series. For now, I would like to mention these recordings. As for Dorati's Petrushka, the sound of various instruments are flying and jumping!


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music116/v4/e6/cc/85/e6cc853a-830d-a84b-0d47-b7dbc6735cbb/23UMGIM52951.rgb.jpg/632x632bb.webp)


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Features/e0/06/f5/dj.rilzrsum.jpg/600x600bb.webp)


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music124/v4/4a/18/bc/4a18bcb3-91d2-3b93-6922-1af7faf434ef/mzi.rlpuhnmx.jpg/600x600bb.webp)





Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: DavidW on November 21, 2023, 03:55:29 PM
My favorite:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.discogs.com%2F7GQznd0snQs9OlLgrNSyryQZAjA%3D%2Ffit-in%2F600x601%2Ffilters%3Astrip_icc()%3Aformat(jpeg)%3Amode_rgb()%3Aquality(90)%2Fdiscogs-images%2FR-9388756-1480275867-7723.png.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=11def342cafeaabc613e69210e6f41cfce4adbcb28546283f6f965498ce5f788&ipo=images)
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.discogs.com%2FMN4sRmubmt4P9Xo_E0ocKGIYaGw%3D%2Ffit-in%2F600x597%2Ffilters%3Astrip_icc()%3Aformat(jpeg)%3Amode_rgb()%3Aquality(90)%2Fdiscogs-images%2FR-12842474-1546789374-9252.png.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4785be2facda9213bb06eafa6f87c112d36caaf81b0e97c5a4f4cd1813f17c5e&ipo=images)

Which on cd/sacd were released together.  The sound is phenomenal and the performance is absolutely desert island.  One of my all time favorite recordings of anything.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on November 21, 2023, 04:11:41 PM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CNQAAOSwCtJZ-pwQ/s-l500.jpg)

A wonderful recording of wonderful performances, especially the Schoenberg!
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: George on November 21, 2023, 04:29:35 PM
(https://i.discogs.com/z-mH7m-fE2Dh1tay9Fh1Psl3BCeJe132LjyfvVAoePA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:493/w:500/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEzMTU0/MTUtMTIwOTAwOTcy/MC5qcGVn.jpeg)

Of the few dozen recordings of Rach 3 that I have heard, this one is my favorite.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on November 22, 2023, 05:50:18 AM
Quote from: George on November 21, 2023, 04:29:35 PM(https://i.discogs.com/z-mH7m-fE2Dh1tay9Fh1Psl3BCeJe132LjyfvVAoePA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:493/w:500/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEzMTU0/MTUtMTIwOTAwOTcy/MC5qcGVn.jpeg)


Of the few dozen recordings of Rach 3 that I have heard, this one is my favorite.



Amen!  Byron Janis was and is my #1 pick for this concerto.  I grew up with this performance of his with Charles Munch and The Boston Symphony Orchestra.


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODExNzYwMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzU3NjUyMTJ9)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on November 22, 2023, 05:57:55 AM
Speaking of RCA, here was one of my favorite vinyl records: works by Edgar Varese and Frank Martin with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Jean Martinon.



(https://www.popsike.ch/pix/20100108/390140745055.jpg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 22, 2023, 06:07:30 AM
RCA Victor recording though it's not Living Stereo.


(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273213025dd8b691c911fc6d1bc)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 22, 2023, 06:36:39 AM
Quote from: Cato on November 22, 2023, 05:50:18 AMAmen!  Byron Janis was and is my #1 pick for this concerto.  I grew up with this performance of his with Charles Munch and The Boston Symphony Orchestra.


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODExNzYwMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzU3NjUyMTJ9)

I cannot think of another soloist/conductor who featured on both RCA (Living Stereo) and Mercury (Living Presence)?

Edit: Maybe Szeryng.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 22, 2023, 11:25:54 PM
Brahms: Violin Concerto.

Recorded February 21/22, 1955.

Producer John Pfeiffer. Recording engineer Lewis Layton.

(https://i.imgur.com/uFap88m.jpg)

Surprising how current both performance and sound. I find some performances of Brahms VC too slow and heavy. Heifetz is agile and has no need to hold back and admire a phrase, no need, as he is perfectly  self-aware of his God-given gift. I am running out of superlatives for Reiner.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 22, 2023, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 22, 2023, 06:07:30 AMRCA Victor recording though it's not Living Stereo.


(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273213025dd8b691c911fc6d1bc)

Talk about throwing out baby with bathwater! It was the introduction of Dynagroove on their LP records that sent RCA on downward path both for reputation and sales.
Decca disliked the technology so much that when pressing RCA recordings under license they dropped Dynagroove without letting on to RCA, although still carrying the logo on covers.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 23, 2023, 05:50:06 AM
Quote from: Irons on November 22, 2023, 11:42:18 PMTalk about throwing out baby with bathwater! It was the introduction of Dynagroove on their LP records that sent RCA on downward path both for reputation and sales.
Decca disliked the technology so much that when pressing RCA recordings under license they dropped Dynagroove without letting on to RCA, although still carrying the logo on covers.

Yes, dynagroove was a blunder only matched years later by the introduction of New Coke.  ;D
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 23, 2023, 05:57:47 AM
I'm a huge Mercury admirer and can hardly think of a release I don't like (although to my ears the 35mm series is not as attractive as the earlier Mercury recordings recorded on a standard Ampex recorder). One recording that stands out in my mind for musical and technical excellence is the "Two Portraits" of Bartok, recorded by Dorati.

(https://i.discogs.com/fPfYkkEbrUBl2XxUZ2-UBYfCkTnhZG6MUzNDAZGMI-E/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:395/w:400/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUzOTAy/MzUtMTM5MjE3Njg1/OC0xMjAzLmpwZWc.jpeg)

On CD it was released in a compilation with a different cover.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 24, 2023, 05:11:48 AM
Mercury recordings I like.


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music126/v4/88/11/b5/8811b59b-9b07-d8be-fa97-9f6b8e67c62c/23UMGIM52941.rgb.jpg/632x632bb.webp)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA1MTg2OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjQ3OTQzOTR9)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Iq6oWRaML._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)



Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: George on November 24, 2023, 05:22:41 AM
(https://i.discogs.com/98_zovpwyeGqVZC6IAKQnqT93wO0_LCHmvNgPukiDio/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTQzMTU0/NjgtMTM2MTUzNzY5/Mi05MjU1LmpwZWc.jpeg)

Another favorite!
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2023, 05:48:39 AM
Miaskovsky/Rimsky-Korsakov
Bax
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: DavidW on November 24, 2023, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 24, 2023, 05:11:48 AM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Iq6oWRaML._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

That was my introduction to Hanson.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2023, 11:40:48 AM
More Hanson:
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2023, 11:45:10 AM
Best recording of Khachaturian's 1st Symphony:

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 24, 2023, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: George on November 24, 2023, 05:22:41 AM(https://i.discogs.com/98_zovpwyeGqVZC6IAKQnqT93wO0_LCHmvNgPukiDio/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTQzMTU0/NjgtMTM2MTUzNzY5/Mi05MjU1LmpwZWc.jpeg)

Another favorite!

Bob Fine's mobile recording studio in Moscow.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 24, 2023, 01:45:09 PM
A strange one. Album of British music recorded by Bob Fine and his Mercury recording team. The second photo of inside truck.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 25, 2023, 06:19:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 24, 2023, 05:48:39 AMMiaskovsky/Rimsky-Korsakov
Bax

I hate to be pedantic but these recordings, excellent they might be, are not from RCA's golden age. They are from RCA's dark age, the dynagroove era!

I associate the RCA golden age with Lewis Layton

(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Photo_Lewis-Layton-at-control-console.jpg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 25, 2023, 06:44:48 AM
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 25, 2023, 06:19:59 AMI hate to be pedantic but these recordings, excellent they might be, are not from RCA's golden age. They are from RCA's dark age, the dynagroove era!

I associate the RCA golden age with Lewis Layton

(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Photo_Lewis-Layton-at-control-console.jpg)
Fair enough! They're just favourites of mine.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 25, 2023, 06:45:54 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 25, 2023, 06:44:48 AMFair enough! They're just favourites of mine.

The Bax looks intriguing.

I don't see any evidence that it is available on CD.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 26, 2023, 07:52:31 AM
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 25, 2023, 06:45:54 AMThe Bax looks intriguing.

I don't see any evidence that it is available on CD.

It isn't (don't get Jeffrey started......!)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2023, 07:56:59 AM
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 25, 2023, 06:45:54 AMThe Bax looks intriguing.

I don't see any evidence that it is available on CD.
It has never been on CD and is my favourite version of the 3rd Symphony  >:(
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2023, 08:02:12 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 26, 2023, 07:56:59 AMIt has never been on CD and is my favourite version of the 3rd Symphony  >:(

I am imaging a comedy/thriller film about an eccentric collector who organizes a raid on the RCA vaults, in search of a long lost audio tape. Tom Cruise can be the lead (since Marty Feldman isn't available).
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: steve ridgway on November 26, 2023, 08:44:34 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/lAkkAwl6o30AAAAC/mission-impossible-self-destruct.gif)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 27, 2023, 12:05:13 AM
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2023, 08:02:12 AMI am imaging a comedy/thriller film about an eccentric collector who organizes a raid on the RCA vaults, in search of a long lost audio tape. Tom Cruise can be the lead (since Marty Feldman isn't available).

Marty Feldman would be a better match for me! I once saw him give a talk at the Roundhouse in London and as a boy got his autograph at a Chelsea FC match (along with John Cleese and one or two others)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: vandermolen on November 27, 2023, 12:12:40 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 26, 2023, 07:52:31 AMIt isn't (don't get Jeffrey started......!)
Lyrita were once thinking of issuing it but it never happened. Also I didn't realise at the time that I was communicating with the conductor's (Sir Edward Downes) son who worked for Lyrita. When he wrote that 'my father would like to see it released as well' I just assumed that his dad was another eccentric Bax fan. I then got into trouble for 'announcing' that the RCA Bax 3rd was going to be issued by Lyrita' when I had only suggested it as a possibility - but, as RS implies, let's not go there... ::)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 27, 2023, 04:43:12 AM
Quote from: Irons on November 24, 2023, 01:18:01 PMBob Fine's mobile recording studio in Moscow.
Cool picture!  8)

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on November 27, 2023, 04:49:01 AM
Quote from: Irons on November 24, 2023, 01:18:01 PMBob Fine's mobile recording studio in Moscow.

Not clear why the truck would be parked outside the Cathedral of Vasily, except for a publicity photo.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on November 27, 2023, 07:36:01 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 27, 2023, 04:43:12 AMCool picture!  8)

PD

Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 27, 2023, 04:49:01 AMNot clear why the truck would be parked outside the Cathedral of Vasily, except for a publicity photo.

"The photo above was shot by Harold Lawrence, Mercury's Musical Director at the time.  In the photo you can see my father getting scolded by a Moscow policeman for parking the truck on Red Square. They were driving toward the Tchaikovsky Conservatory after picking up the truck at a rail yard outside Moscow, and everyone wanted to snap photos at Red Square, so my father pulled over. CBS News captured footage of Mercury's recording trip to Moscow which was edited into a feature story that ran on the CBS Evening News."

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on December 01, 2023, 11:22:10 AM
The central presence is strong while the 1960 recording is stereo. It sounds like a mixture of stereo and mono. Plus strong bass. Nice performance and interesting/attractive sound.


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music71/v4/48/a2/71/48a27121-5858-0510-1f30-429e0c25bb61/884977564105.jpg/632x632bf.webp)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Mookalafalas on December 04, 2023, 02:43:23 AM
Posting so as to subscrible. I'm a big fan of both labels.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 31, 2024, 07:41:01 PM
Maria Callas at Scala. Love the cover as well. Was this recorded after her association with Luchino Visconti?


(https://i.discogs.com/2zMBXARA_ZwBeuuUK4hNg3EP1S_ZPAxbKPBAcwWWTUo/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTY3Nzc2/MzQtMTYyMjA3NDY4/OC01NDY4LmpwZWc.jpeg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: ritter on February 01, 2024, 12:02:48 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 31, 2024, 07:41:01 PMMaria Callas at Scala. Love the cover as well. Was this recorded after her association with Luchino Visconti?


(https://i.discogs.com/2zMBXARA_ZwBeuuUK4hNg3EP1S_ZPAxbKPBAcwWWTUo/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTY3Nzc2/MzQtMTYyMjA3NDY4/OC01NDY4LmpwZWc.jpeg)
The first production on which Callas and Visconti worked together was Spontini's La Vestale, which opened the La Scala season on December 7th, 1954 (that was Visconti's debut as an operatic director). The poster of that performance presides the entrance hall of my flat.

(https://www.teatroallascala.org/static/damweb/upload/fotografie/full/195/19541207VEST_2045_O.jpg)

Their last joint new production was Gluck's Ifigenia in Tauride (like that, in Italian) which opened in June 1957. Their last work together was a revival in April 1958 of the production of Anna Bolena which had premiered one year earlier. All their collaborations (five productions in total) were at La Scala.

That Medea was recorded in September 1957, so it's from the tail end of the period of collaboration between Visconti and Callas (but they never worked together on that particular opera).
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on February 01, 2024, 01:36:24 PM
Rafael, thank you for the info. I'm a fan of Luchino Visconti, and as you already know, the Visconti family was the patron of La Scala (and many other institutions in Milan). I find it fascinating that L. Visconti had a few romantic relationships with ladies. When he was young, he dated Coco Chanel.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2024, 12:28:19 AM
Byron Janis: Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.3. Recorded Watford Town Hall.
Piano Concerto No.2. Recorded Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis.

Janis is the equal of my favourite recording of 3, Ashkenazy on Decca, and I have not heard a stronger rendition of 2.

The Minneapolis recording is clearer and less congested at climaxes then Watford. I am slightly puzzled by this as they were recorded within a year of each other. A possible explanation is that 35mm magnetic film used at Watford with half-inch tape as backup. For transfer to CD the backup tape was used as 35mm tape unavailable. For Minneapolis the recording was transferred with the original 3-track half-inch tape.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: George on March 12, 2024, 05:40:12 AM
Janis/Dorati is my overall favorite Rach 3.

For Rach 2, Richter/Wislocki is my favorite.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2024, 07:49:58 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 12, 2024, 12:28:19 AMByron Janis: Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.3. Recorded Watford Town Hall.
Piano Concerto No.2. Recorded Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis.

Janis is the equal of my favourite recording of 3, Ashkenazy on Decca, and I have not heard a stronger rendition of 2.

The Minneapolis recording is clearer and less congested at climaxes then Watford. I am slightly puzzled by this as they were recorded within a year of each other. A possible explanation is that 35mm magnetic film used at Watford with half-inch tape as backup. For transfer to CD the backup tape was used as 35mm tape unavailable. For Minneapolis the recording was transferred with the original 3-track half-inch tape.
Lol,

Interesting theory!  I'm not finding much information about that specific recording (There are some fun *anecdotes by Janis which I'll share including Wilma Cozart smartly bringing the fixings for peanut butter sandwiches from the US.  Apparently, there was never any food available in Moscow after 10 p.m.!)

From the booklet:

"Another important technical advance for the Living Presence catalogue was the addition of 35mm magnetic film technology to the Mercury sound.  It was Bob Fine who encouraged its use by the Living Presence team.  Naturally attracted to the new medium because of his film recording background, Fine regarded 35mm magnetic film as a significant breakthrough because it made possible greater clarity, dynamic range and transient response than conventional tape and virtually eliminated tape hiss."

There is a hybrid SACD version of this album too (which I don't own).  Wonder how it sounds?  And would be interested to read the liner notes; might be some information there.

*Another one:  "Right after finishing the Prokofiev tape, Mercury gave it to a friend to rush to New York for safekeeping.  At the Customs at the Moscow airport, he was asked by an understandably suspicious officer:  'What is that large tape you are carrying?'  'The Prokofiev Third Piano Concerto,' was our friend's instant and unflinching reply.  The official looked him in the eye, looked down at the tape, and with no hint of disbelief, amazingly let him pass without a word."

PD

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2024, 09:33:02 AM
@Spotted Horses

Rereading your earlier comment about preferring the Ampex sound, do you (or anyone else here) know as to which was the first recording that they used the 35mm recording?  In the booklet (for the first Mercury CD boxed set), they wrote about the recordings in Moscow and how their winning argument to be able to record the various recordings by the likes of Janis and the Osipov State Russian Folk Orchestra was that they would be using a 35mm magnetic tape recorder.

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Spotted Horses on March 12, 2024, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2024, 09:33:02 AM@Spotted Horses

Rereading your earlier comment about preferring the Ampex sound, do you (or anyone else here) know as to which was the first recording that they used the 35mm recording?  In the booklet (for the first Mercury CD boxed set), they wrote about the recordings in Moscow and how their winning argument to be able to record the various recordings by the likes of Janis and the Osipov State Russian Folk Orchestra was that they would be using a 35mm magnetic tape recorder.

PD

I found a MLP discography online, and the first release using 35mm by catalog number is SR-90245, Fennel and the Eastman Wind Ensemble playing a program of Gabrieli. Recording date 5/6/1961. After that releases were a mix of 35mm and conventional tape recordings. I guess they didn't have enough equipment to make all recordings using their 35mm machine.

https://mercury.lacyway.com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rgwya6v7u7dqa1/Mercury%20Stereo%20LPs%20-%20SR-90200%20-%20SR-90299.pdf?e=1&dl=0
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2024, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 12, 2024, 10:19:15 AMI found a MLP discography online, and the first release using 35mm by catalog number is SR-90245, Fennel and the Eastman Wind Ensemble playing a program of Gabrieli. Recording date 5/6/1961. After that releases were a mix of 35mm and conventional tape recordings. I guess they didn't have enough equipment to make all recordings using their 35mm machine.

https://mercury.lacyway.com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rgwya6v7u7dqa1/Mercury%20Stereo%20LPs%20-%20SR-90200%20-%20SR-90299.pdf?e=1&dl=0

Thank you for the information!  :)

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on March 13, 2024, 12:27:20 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2024, 07:49:58 AMLol,

Interesting theory!  I'm not finding much information about that specific recording (There are some fun *anecdotes by Janis which I'll share including Wilma Cozart smartly bringing the fixings for peanut butter sandwiches from the US.  Apparently, there was never any food available in Moscow after 10 p.m.!)

From the booklet:

"Another important technical advance for the Living Presence catalogue was the addition of 35mm magnetic film technology to the Mercury sound.  It was Bob Fine who encouraged its use by the Living Presence team.  Naturally attracted to the new medium because of his film recording background, Fine regarded 35mm magnetic film as a significant breakthrough because it made possible greater clarity, dynamic range and transient response than conventional tape and virtually eliminated tape hiss."

There is a hybrid SACD version of this album too (which I don't own).  Wonder how it sounds?  And would be interested to read the liner notes; might be some information there.

*Another one:  "Right after finishing the Prokofiev tape, Mercury gave it to a friend to rush to New York for safekeeping.  At the Customs at the Moscow airport, he was asked by an understandably suspicious officer:  'What is that large tape you are carrying?'  'The Prokofiev Third Piano Concerto,' was our friend's instant and unflinching reply.  The official looked him in the eye, looked down at the tape, and with no hint of disbelief, amazingly let him pass without a word."

PD



I would also be interested how it sounds on vinyl too. I have a US Mercury pressing of Janis playing the two Liszt PC's recorded in Moscow on 35mm tape. I will give it a spin and report back.

Interesting that far as I'm aware only one other label took up the option of recording on 35mm tape.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 13, 2024, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 13, 2024, 12:27:20 AMI would also be interested how it sounds on vinyl too. I have a US Mercury pressing of Janis playing the two Liszt PC's recorded in Moscow on 35mm tape. I will give it a spin and report back.

Interesting that far as I'm aware only one other label took up the option of recording on 35mm tape.
Which label was that Irons?

By the way, I did a tiny bit of digging around in my hard-to-access LPs and found out that I own this (and apparently even cleaned it in the past too!).  Will give it a listen to a bit later today.

(https://i.discogs.com/Bj2Xp48vpFenTakHv0HII4xWN-tU7ISCGg8pkx69JBk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:591/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMyOTYw/MTUtMTU0ODIzNzk1/MS0zNTc0LmpwZWc.jpeg)

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on March 13, 2024, 08:22:58 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 13, 2024, 08:00:44 AMWhich label was that Irons?

By the way, I did a tiny bit of digging around in my hard-to-access LPs and found out that I own this (and apparently even cleaned it in the past too!).  Will give it a listen to a bit later today.

(https://i.discogs.com/Bj2Xp48vpFenTakHv0HII4xWN-tU7ISCGg8pkx69JBk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:591/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMyOTYw/MTUtMTU0ODIzNzk1/MS0zNTc0LmpwZWc.jpeg)

PD

Either my brain would burst or I would remember. Thankfully Command Classics! Everest did some too but it was Command I was thinking of.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 13, 2024, 08:50:00 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 13, 2024, 08:22:58 AMEither my brain would burst or I would remember. Thankfully Command Classics! Everest did some too but it was Command I was thinking of.
;D

Too nice out today...need to go for a walk.  :)

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on March 13, 2024, 08:56:01 AM
Quote from: George on March 12, 2024, 05:40:12 AMJanis/Dorati is my overall favorite Rach 3.

For Rach 2, Richter/Wislocki is my favorite.


Byron Janis was always a fave!

I had this RCA recording, a "Living Presence" release:


(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Noa-JgnN0qcCaHacV6wX8wHaHa?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain)

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 15, 2024, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 13, 2024, 08:56:01 AMByron Janis was always a fave!

I had this RCA recording, a "Living Presence" release:


(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Noa-JgnN0qcCaHacV6wX8wHaHa?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain)


Oh, nice!  I haven't heard that recording before.  Will have to do some digging and see if I can find a way to listen to it.

I'll have to listen to more of Janis' recordings too.

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2024, 01:46:50 PM
Byron Janis Dies at 95.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/byron-janis-dead-pianist-1235854358/
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Jo498 on March 17, 2024, 01:56:09 PM
RIP! I wouldn't have thought that he was still alive! Didn't know that he was married to Gary Cooper's daughter either.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on March 17, 2024, 03:42:16 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2024, 01:46:50 PMByron Janis Dies at 95.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/byron-janis-dead-pianist-1235854358/


What a coincidence, since we have been discussing his performances here! 


Quote from: Jo498 on March 17, 2024, 01:56:09 PMRIP! I wouldn't have thought that he was still alive! Didn't know that he was married to Gary Cooper's daughter either.


No, I had no idea. 

She must be c. 87, as sources claim she was born in 1937.

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 18, 2024, 05:07:24 AM
Sorry to hear of his passing.

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Cato on March 18, 2024, 06:36:57 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 13, 2024, 08:00:44 AMWhich label was that Irons?

By the way, I did a tiny bit of digging around in my hard-to-access LPs and found out that I own this (and apparently even cleaned it in the past too!).  Will give it a listen to a bit later today.

(https://i.discogs.com/Bj2Xp48vpFenTakHv0HII4xWN-tU7ISCGg8pkx69JBk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:591/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMyOTYw/MTUtMTU0ODIzNzk1/MS0zNTc0LmpwZWc.jpeg)

PD


An article about Byron Janis said that the 1960's Leningrad recording of Chopin's Piano Sonata #2 is absolutely "hair-raising."


It is available here:

https://www.byronjanislive.com/merch/live-from-leningrad-1960-wy4tc (https://www.byronjanislive.com/merch/live-from-leningrad-1960-wy4tc)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 18, 2024, 08:17:30 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 18, 2024, 06:36:57 AMAn article about Byron Janis said that the 1960's Leningrad recording of Chopin's Piano Sonata #2 is absolutely "hair-raising."


It is available here:

https://www.byronjanislive.com/merch/live-from-leningrad-1960-wy4tc (https://www.byronjanislive.com/merch/live-from-leningrad-1960-wy4tc)

Thanks!  I'll check it out.  :)

PD
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on April 26, 2024, 07:31:47 AM

Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on April 28, 2024, 12:17:49 AM
Listened to CD (I do not have LP) of Munch Saint-Saens 3 and it is indeed impressive. Listening to the Boston violins after the first entry of organ I'm struck by the thought that the legendary status to be as much down to excellence of orchestral playing as state of the art recording of the day. 
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: LKB on April 28, 2024, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Irons on April 28, 2024, 12:17:49 AMListened to CD (I do not have LP) of Munch Saint-Saens 3 and it is indeed impressive. Listening to the Boston violins after the first entry of organ I'm struck by the thought that the legendary status to be as much down to excellence of orchestral playing as state of the art recording of the day. 
Quote from: Irons on April 28, 2024, 12:17:49 AMListened to CD (I do not have LP) of Munch Saint-Saens 3 and it is indeed impressive. Listening to the Boston violins after the first entry of organ I'm struck by the thought that the legendary status to be as much down to excellence of orchestral playing as state of the art recording of the day. 

If your player can handle SACDs, the RCA dual-layer disc sound's even better.  ;)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on April 28, 2024, 12:32:12 AM
Quote from: LKB on April 28, 2024, 12:29:11 AMIf your player can handle SACDs, the RCA dual-layer disc sound's even better.  ;)

Sadly it does not.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: LKB on April 28, 2024, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: Irons on April 28, 2024, 12:32:12 AMSadly it does not.

That is unfortunate. Every SACD I've acquired has been an audible upgrade over the equivalent CD, in the cases where  I've possessed the latter.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 13, 2024, 04:02:32 PM
This is an interesting recording sound. The sound stage is not wide-opened, and it sounds like mono, or fake stereo of a mono recording. As this was recorded in 1955, probably engineers experimented with the equipments and placed microphones around the center, I guess. Strangely, I love this gentle way of stereo sound. As for the performance, I prefer this Munch/Boston recording to the similar albums by Dorati (Mercury Living Presence) and Reiner (RCA Living Stereo).

P.s. what are the oldest stereo recordings done by RCA, Mercury, et al.?




(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71iMigF3xPL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on July 21, 2024, 04:54:01 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 13, 2024, 04:02:32 PMP.s. what are the oldest stereo recordings done by RCA, Mercury, et al.?



Historical information on the great record labels of the past can be a minefield, especially when it comes to firsts.
You have not asked re Decca and EMI but I do have this information to hand. Both labels issued the first true stereo issues in 1958. Decca SXL 2001 and HMV ASD 251.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y6FarXZ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Wem5pOv.jpg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 01, 2025, 05:22:22 PM
Parole E Musica - Helen Merrill. RCA Italy.


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71LolkLVWqL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)




Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 25, 2025, 06:53:33 PM
I forgot this recording. Always I liked this album. Nice recording sound (perhaps three mics?) and lively performance.

Pepe Romero: Flamenco.


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music126/v4/85/7a/b6/857ab611-2b87-27c9-b8ee-9be339e545e2/23UMGIM50027.rgb.jpg/632x632bb.webp)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: ChamberNut on March 26, 2025, 04:23:58 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 25, 2025, 06:53:33 PMI forgot this recording. Always I liked this album. Nice recording sound (perhaps three mics?) and lively performance.

Pepe Romero: Flamenco.


(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music126/v4/85/7a/b6/857ab611-2b87-27c9-b8ee-9be339e545e2/23UMGIM50027.rgb.jpg/632x632bb.webp)

I have this as well, in a different album cover. Terrific sound indeed. Highly enjoyable!
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Mookalafalas on April 04, 2025, 01:15:10 AM
DORATI!
  I read a summary of how much of the new Dorati boxes was already contained in the original Mercury box trilogy. It turns out, nearly all of them. I'm been playing through the Dorati portion.
  Playing this at the moment, but it is pretty uniformly top-tier.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61fXCPC68-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 22, 2025, 01:50:06 PM
The La Mer album is a stereo recording (1956) though it doesn't say Living Stereo. I guess it was recorded before the Living Stereo series? The sound stage is very central although it sounds certainly different from mono sound. I imagine microphones were close to the center. I think the recording sound provides with a gentle, natural stereo sound. The Images record is mono (1952) and the sound quality is excellent.
 
The performances by Boston and San Francisco Symphony Orchestras are powerful and amazing. Later Monteux  recorded these works with London SO for Decca. It is a vg recording, but I prefer these RCA recordings in the 1950s.




(https://i.discogs.com/NdKmxMlPmp1HPKXtpD8BS0jsiFsf3o0P125WXYFFVd8/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI0NzAx/MzEtMTQ5OTg4OTgw/OC0yMjA1LmpwZWc.jpeg)



(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27344b998a96650d392a4eed490)


Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Irons on May 26, 2025, 01:39:36 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 22, 2025, 01:50:06 PMThe La Mer album is a stereo recording (1956) though it doesn't say Living Stereo. I guess it was recorded before the Living Stereo series? The sound stage is very central although it sounds certainly different from mono sound. I imagine microphones were close to the center. I think the recording sound provides with a gentle, natural stereo sound. The Images record is mono (1952) and the sound quality is excellent.
 
The performances by Boston and San Francisco Symphony Orchestras are powerful and amazing. Later Monteux  recorded these works with London SO for Decca. It is a vg recording, but I prefer these RCA recordings in the 1950s.




(https://i.discogs.com/NdKmxMlPmp1HPKXtpD8BS0jsiFsf3o0P125WXYFFVd8/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI0NzAx/MzEtMTQ5OTg4OTgw/OC0yMjA1LmpwZWc.jpeg)



(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27344b998a96650d392a4eed490)




Looking up Discogs, Monteux La Mer with Boston SO features on the 60CD RCA Living Stereo Collection.
Title: Re: Golden Age of RCA and Mercury.
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 22, 2025, 03:05:30 PM
I forgot to mention this charismatic recording with rather un-cool album title. Interesting and wide reverb sound. Maybe microphones were distanced a lot? I love the dark sound.



(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music6/v4/46/d9/26/46d926dc-2b71-b374-39d5-383782d45520/886444023689.jpg/632x632bb.webp)