Been listening to conductors who don't have the reputation of their more heavily marketed peers:
1. Eduard van Beinum:
Surprised to hear that he isn't Kappellmeisterish -- no reason for the belief except he is never really brought up so I assumed he must be unremarkable. A friend of mine compared him to Toscanini which *really* piqued my interest. Heard his Bruckner 9. Indeed a taut - perhaps *too* taut performance.
Similarly his Mendelssohn 4 feels a little breathless but it's of its type and certainly has personality. More than can be said of Haitink I feel so often.
Amazing La valse. Really brought the house down.
2. Hans Rosbaud:
Obscure conductor but whom I am sure has his fans. Hearing performances from the SWR boxes. I really loved his King Stephen Overture and similarly a terrific live Roussel 3. Unremarkable Sibelius 5 though.
3. Eugene Ormandy:
No, no. I am not going to claim Ormandy is an obscure figure but he does feel rarely brought up despite his gigantic discography. I have his Columbia Mono box. I enjoyed the Burleske with Serkin. Not competitive because there's been many recordings of the piece and the sound shows its age. The Dvorak 9 wasn't bad either.
4. Arthur Rodzinski:
Again someone relegated to historical recordings. Liked his Haydn 100 (https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-artur-rodzinski/products/pasc669) even if the sound is poor (for 1937 it's pretty good actually). Not sure where to go from here.
____
Would love recommendations for other conductors and favorite recordings. One figure on my radar is Schuricht - although some of his Beethoven is fine - whom I find really unremarkable but perhaps my choice of recordings have been wrong. Is the SWR Collection (https://www.naxos.com/CatalogueDetail/?id=SWR19425CD) a good starting place?
Franz Konwitschny seems to be under the radar. I know of him, have heard a recording or two (and they are great)... but I've only seen like one poster consistently listen to him.
Scherchen is most known for having one of the fastest Eroicas on record pre-HIP... but he was also a great conductor that I don't see a lot of discussion on anymore.
Beecham's Berlioz is stunning, and such a fine musician that he was even knighted... but again it is pretty rare these days to hear him mentioned.
That's true. Beecham did a lot of recordings and is only ever brought up (predictably and gratingly) by the British press. I believe he introduced me to Lalo's Symphony.
Never tried anything by Konwitschny.
A few others -
1. Malcom Sargent
2. Dimitri Mitropoulos
3. Jean Martinon (although his French specialisation means he'll probably be of limited interest to me)
4. Georges Pretres
5. Hans Schmidt Isserstedt
6. Hans Vonk
7. Gary Bertini
8. Hans Swarovsky
9. Josef Krips
10. Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos
11. Ferdinand Leitner
12. Tugan Sokhiev
13. Erich Leinsdorf (I'm not an opera guy. So I'm talking orchestral music here)
14. Gerd Albrecht
15. Hermann Abendroth
16. Heinz Rögner
17. Eliahu Inbal (He's recorded a lot of music beyond Bruckner)
18. Gunter Herbig
19. Claus Peter Flor
20. Hans Zender
21. Michael Gielen
22. Kurt Masur (when has anyone ever mentioned him for a reference recording?)
23. Paul van Kempen
24. Rudolf Kempe (beyond Strauss)
25. Herbert Kegel
26. Michel Plasson
27. Joseph Keilberth
28. Lovro von Matačić
29. Otmar Suitner
30. Kurt Sanderling (A respected conductor AFAIK but not brought up often)
31. Sylvain Cambreling
32. Yoel Levi (Telarc conductor)
33. Jeffrey Tate (only know him for the Mozart cycle)
34. Horst Stein
35. Hans Müller-Kray
36. Ernst Bour
37. Yuri Ahronovitch
Well many of those conductors are extremely well known and listened to around here.
Quote from: DavidW on March 19, 2024, 06:13:14 AMWell many of those conductors are extremely well known and listened to around here.
Go on.
Quote from: lordlance on March 19, 2024, 08:35:56 AMGo on.
Sargent and Mitropoulos are listened to frequently. Bertini and Gielen are both known for recording two of the most well received Mahler cycles. Krips has one of the greatest Beethoven cycles. Every Sanderling is brought up often. I could go on and on, but I don't want to, your list is enormous.
I enjoy Horst Stein's Sibelius--particularly this 2 CD set with Ashkenazy.
https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Finlandia-suites-symphonic-poems/dp/B0000041L7
Lovro von Matačić's Mahler is supposed to be excellent.
PD
And don't forget Suitner's amazing Dvorak cycle!
Quote from: lordlance on March 18, 2024, 03:53:46 PMBeen listening to conductors who don't have the reputation of their more heavily marketed peers:
1. Eduard van Beinum:
Surprised to hear that he isn't Kappellmeisterish -- no reason for the belief except he is never really brought up so I assumed he must be unremarkable. A friend of mine compared him to Toscanini which *really* piqued my interest. Heard his Bruckner 9. Indeed a taut - perhaps *too* taut performance.
Similarly his Mendelssohn 4 feels a little breathless but it's of its type and certainly has personality. More than can be said of Haitink I feel so often.
Amazing La valse. Really brought the house down.
I adore what I have heard of van Beinum. His profile has suffered, I think, from the fact that he didn't live long into the stereo era, resulting in a relatively small discography.
Quote from: DavidW on March 19, 2024, 08:47:41 AMSargent and Mitropoulos are listened to frequently. Bertini and Gielen are both known for recording two of the most well received Mahler cycles. Krips has one of the greatest Beethoven cycles. Every Sanderling is brought up often. I could go on and on, but I don't want to, your list is enormous.
Sargent is listened to frequently? How strange. I have quite rarely seen him brought up. Ditto Mitropolous. Hence why I asked how and where they are brought up.
Gielen/Bertini/Krips being known for one or two things is sort of the point. They recorded a ton of stuff. Although with Gielen I would guess he is known mostly for modernist stuff even though he did a lot of the core repertoire.
Sanderling AFAIK is only brought up for his Bruckner. The same way Kempe is brought up for his Strauss mostly.
Quote from: lordlance on March 19, 2024, 10:40:24 AMSargent is listened to frequently? How strange. I have quite rarely seen him brought up. Ditto Mitropolous. Hence why I asked how and where they are brought up.
Gielen/Bertini/Krips being known for one or two things is sort of the point. They recorded a ton of stuff. Although with Gielen I would guess he is known mostly for modernist stuff even though he did a lot of the core repertoire.
Sanderling AFAIK is only brought up for his Bruckner. The same way Kempe is brought up for his Strauss mostly.
No! Better known for Sibelius/Mahler/Shostakovich for starters
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 19, 2024, 10:45:47 AMNo! Better known for Sibelius/Mahler/Shostakovich for starters
Not to pile on, but I think the only commercial Bruckner recording he made was the Third. There's a fine live 7 on SWR, and I see that there's a live 4 on Profil that I haven't heard.
His Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff on DG would have been even more widely distributed than the East German stuff.
My Sanderling choices would be:
Borodin 2
Mahler 10
that Bruckner 7
Sibelius cycle
Shostakovich symphonies
Yes Sanderling's Shostakovich is just great. I think it really stands up there with Kondrashin and Mravinsky.
Quote from: lordlance on March 19, 2024, 10:40:24 AMSargent is listened to frequently? How strange. I have quite rarely seen him brought up. Ditto Mitropolous. Hence why I asked how and where they are brought up.
The listening thread. Haven't really kept a tally, and I've also I've been here awhile (more than 20 years now).
QuoteGielen/Bertini/Krips being known for one or two things is sort of the point. They recorded a ton of stuff. Although with Gielen I would guess he is known mostly for modernist stuff even though he did a lot of the core repertoire.
Gielen is known for Mahler, Bruckner, Beethoven, Schoenberg and others. Hanssler or whatever the record label has issued a Gielen edition in multiple volumes. He is pretty well rounded, great conductor. I'm not a fan of his Bruckner, but many are.
Allow me to offer
Leopold Ludwig as a candidate:
Quote from: lordlance on March 18, 2024, 10:18:19 PMe
That's true. Beecham did a lot of recordings and is only ever brought up (predictably and gratingly) by the British press. I believe he introduced me to Lalo's Symphony.
Beecham was a great conductor, and I hope Warner puts his stuff back in print.
QuoteNever tried anything by Konwitschny.
A fine Beethoven cycle on Berlin Classics and Schubert 9th on Supraphon.
Quote2. Dimitri Mitropoulos
A lot of his Columbia recordings are now available for streaming. His Shostakovich Symphony No. 10 is a good starting point. There are a handful of stereo recordings: a great Tchaikovsky 6, a fine Symphonie fantastique, and some selections from Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet.
Quote3. Jean Martinon (although his French specialisation means he'll probably be of limited interest to me)
Recorded one of the great Nielsen Inexstinguashable's with Chicago. In fact, the whole Sony box of his Chicago recordings is essential. Then get everything else on Warner and Eloquence. His own music is also interesting.
Quote10. Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos
Excellent in Spanish music, of course, but also choral music of Mendelssohn and Haydn and a fantastic Carmina Burana.
Quote11. Ferdinand Leitner
A fine Bruckner 6 coupled with the real interest, a fanatastic recording of Hartmann's Symphony No. 6.
Quote12. Tugan Sokhiev
I've been following his recordings and usually find his interpretations to be fresh and interesting. His record labels have not done a good job of promotion.
Quote13. Erich Leinsdorf (I'm not an opera guy. So I'm talking orchestral music here)
I'm fond of his Prokofiev. Sony has boxed it up.
Quote16. Heinz Rögner
I like his fast Bruckner.
Quote24. Rudolf Kempe (beyond Strauss)
I'm a fan and have enjoyed most of what I've heard. He was a great colorist at his best in Romantic music.
Perhaps not at his best in the German classics, but I do like his Brahms and Bruckner (Japanese XRCD issue of 4 and 5). The Warner Icon box was a bit disappointing for what was left out.
Quote25. Herbert Kegel
Some great Hindemith among other fine things.
Quote26. Michel Plasson
His box of French repetoire is worth having for the obscure stuff.
Quote27. Joseph Keilberth
His Bruckner 6 was a reference for many years. Still holds up well, I think.
Quote28. Lovro von Matačić
Tchaikovsky and Bruckner on Supraphon, though he tended to use odd editions of some of the Bruckner symphonies.
Quote34. Horst Stein
Some great Sibelius and Bruckner on Eloqunce.
Quote36. Ernst Bour
Try some of his Ravel and Roussel.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 19, 2024, 08:54:31 AMI enjoy Horst Stein's Sibelius--particularly this 2 CD set with Ashkenazy.
https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Finlandia-suites-symphonic-poems/dp/B0000041L7
Lovro von Matačić's Mahler is supposed to be excellent. Edit: my goof...I had meant his Bruckner...particularly his Symphony No. 7.
PD
Quote from: lordlance on March 18, 2024, 03:53:46 PM2. Hans Rosbaud:
Obscure conductor but whom I am sure has his fans. Hearing performances from the SWR boxes. I really loved his King Stephen Overture and similarly a terrific live Roussel 3. Unremarkable Sibelius 5 though.
One of my favorite Bruckner 7s. The one in the SWR Bruckner box is from a mono tape, but it was also taped in good stereo (avoid the Vox and similar issues). I can vouch for this issue:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E1DHFO
Quote3. Eugene Ormandy:
No, no. I am not going to claim Ormandy is an obscure figure but he does feel rarely brought up despite his gigantic discography. I have his Columbia Mono box.
Serkin recorded the Burleske again with Ormandy in stereo.
Try Ormandy's Lemminkäinen Suite from the mono box:
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music114/v4/c7/05/91/c70591a7-5471-8516-e7aa-2f1b4d975fef/886448901549.jpg/1200x1200bb.jpg)
Hurwitz did a good survey of the mono box on youtube.
Quote4. Arthur Rodzinski:
Again someone relegated to historical recordings. Liked his Haydn 100 (https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-artur-rodzinski/products/pasc669) even if the sound is poor (for 1937 it's pretty good actually). Not sure where to go from here.
Usually an exciting conductor. He did live long enough to make some "hi fi" recordings for Westminster (reissued by DG) and some fine stereo recordings for EMI (where are they Warner?).
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/918hzJRAuPL._SL1407_.jpg)
https://www.discogs.com/release/14706169-Artur-RodzinskiRoyal-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Artur-Rodzinski-Artist-Profile
QuoteWould love recommendations for other conductors and favorite recordings. One figure on my radar is Schuricht - although some of his Beethoven is fine
I love Schuricht's Bruckner in the Warner Icon set (3, 8 and 9). There was also a highly regarded Bruckner 5 on DG (mono).
I love this Martinon set, he is my favorite conductor for Debussy and Ravel:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61X172ybL6L._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Quote from: Daverz on March 19, 2024, 11:51:48 AMMy Sanderling choices would be:
Borodin 2
Mahler 10
that Bruckner 7
Sibelius cycle
Shostakovich symphonies
How did I forget one of the great Brahms cycles with the Dresden Staatskapelle?
Hurwitz did a brief video on Sanderling:
Quote from: Cato on March 19, 2024, 12:30:54 PMAllow me to offer Leopold Ludwig as a candidate:
A friend turned me on to his Ein Heldenleben.
Quote from: lordlance on March 18, 2024, 10:18:19 PMKurt Masur (when has anyone ever mentioned him for a reference recording?)
Here ya go:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZSiY0Dy5L._SL1200_.jpg)
Receives little attention but a cycle of Rachmaninov symphonies from Edo de Waart with Rotterdam Philharmonic. Lighter and fleeter of foot without bombast, I find his Rachmaninov refreshing.
No love for Rene Leibowitz?
Quote from: Holden on March 20, 2024, 12:22:36 AMNo love for Rene Leibowitz?
There's always more conductors. Not aware of what he has done outside his Beethoven cycle and Sibelius put-down essay.
Quote from: Holden on March 20, 2024, 12:22:36 AMNo love for Rene Leibowitz?
You beat me to mentioning him! Genuinely interesting conductor - his RPO Beethoven cycle 60 years on still sounds wonderfully alert and intelligent.
Quote from: Irons on March 20, 2024, 12:21:05 AMReceives little attention but a cycle of Rachmaninov symphonies from Edo de Waart with Rotterdam Philharmonic. Lighter and fleeter of foot without bombast, I find his Rachmaninov refreshing.
Walter Weller and
his Rachmaninov cycle too (or his Prokofiev cycle on Decca
or his Beethoven cycle on Chandos
or his Suk Asrael Symphony......)
Manuel Rosenthal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Rosenthal)
(https://mlsr0cr8ad5y.i.optimole.com/cb:xWe2~67130/w:957/h:760/q:mauto/f:best/https://editionsfario.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Rosenthal1.png)
Vraiment "très chic".
Quote from: lordlance on March 18, 2024, 10:18:19 PM36. Ernest Bour
Very interesting musician. he left a rather small LP/CD legacy, but there must be a huge amount of radio recordings in both France and Germany.
(https://music.metason.net/image?fn=A-283130.jpeg&sc=6_3)
From 1934 he was choirmaster at Radio Genève, as well as in Strasbourg, from 1935 to 1939. In 1940 he taught piano at the Strasbourg Conservatory, in 1941 he was also assistant conductor of the Mulhouse Orchestra. He is also active as a conductor at Radio France, as well as at the Aix-en-Provence and Strasbourg Festivals. In 1945 he was appointed director of the Strasbourg Conservatory.
From 1950 to 1963 he conducted the Strasbourg Philharmonic Orchestra (from 1955 also the Strasbourg Opera Orchestra), then from 1964 - following the death of Hans Rosbaud - the Suedwestfunk Symphony Orchestra in Baden -Baden (the current Radio Symphony Orchestra of Baden-Baden and Freiburg im Breisgau), a position he retained until 1979, before retiring. From 1976 to 1987 he was permanent guest conductor of the Dutch Radio Chamber Orchestra (VARA, Hilversum).
During all these years Ernest Bour conducted numerous premieres, such as that of Sub-Kontur by Wolfgang Rihm, 1975, Apparitions by György Ligeti in 1960, Lontano in 1967, Trans by Karlheinz Stockhausen, 1971, the 3rd symphony by Henryk Górecki, 1977, to name just a few.
https://youtu.be/F7BLMgmyBk0?si=RWEYGsvNb86ur7Xt
Ingo Metzmacher (https://www.ingometzmacher.com/en)
(https://bilder.deutschlandfunk.de/32/2c/7c/67/322c7c67-4543-4fc9-a4f7-89fd876eed03/ingo-metzmacher-dirigierend-100-1280x720.jpg)
https://youtu.be/kmKipXZq8OA?si=TF-T2E5fNGp_00br
I went to see him in Amsterdam for a performance of Hartmans 8th symphony and I do like his book "Wie is er bang van nieuwe klanken?" Who is afraid of new sounds? Afaik, not translated into English.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1418038559i/7196887.jpg)
Quote from: Daverz on March 19, 2024, 04:14:02 PMHere ya go:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZSiY0Dy5L._SL1200_.jpg)
And the Mendelssohn string symphonies!
Masur's recordings of Mendelssohn's Lobgesang and oratorios are also first rate, there's probably too much competition in the other Mendelssohn symphonies for his recordings to stick out (same with other standard 19th century repertoire, he recorded a lot, the Gewandhaus orchestra being a main asset of the GDR).
Quote from: Daverz on March 19, 2024, 04:14:02 PMHere ya go:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZSiY0Dy5L._SL1200_.jpg)
Agreed (although the Haitink set is another contender).
Quote from: Jo498 on March 20, 2024, 06:38:36 AMMasur's recordings of Mendelssohn's Lobgesang and oratorios are also first rate, there's probably too much competition in the other Mendelssohn symphonies for his recordings to stick out (same with other standard 19th century repertoire, he recorded a lot, the Gewandhaus orchestra being a main asset of the GDR).
That was my point with folks like Masur. They made tons and tons of recordings. sure, and some even held high posts (LGO and NYP are no small feat!) but somehow they never get brought up. His Liszt is unsurprising to be brought up. Not a lot of competition in the domain of complete tone poems and other orchestral works.
But this is very different from "under the radar". Masur made lots of well distributed recordings, he was if anything "overrated", not under the radar.
Similarly with Beecham. He is a cult figure with a reasonable number of recordings (considering his generation). I tend to think of him as closer to overrated but in any case he is well known, not obscure.
Someone like Müller-Kray is an obscure provincial figure. I think I only encountered the name in context of some radio recordings with Wunderlich or Erdmann or whatever. Regardless of whether he'd deserved to be better known, he is someone obscure but Masur or Beecham are not and never were.
Quote from: Jo498 on March 21, 2024, 01:46:27 AMBut this is very different from "under the radar". Masur made lots of well distributed recordings, he was if anything "overrated", not under the radar.
Similarly with Beecham. He is a cult figure with a reasonable number of recordings (considering his generation). I tend to think of him as closer to overrated but in any case he is well known, not obscure.
Someone like Müller-Kray is an obscure provincial figure. I think I only encountered the name in context of some radio recordings with Wunderlich or Erdmann or whatever. Regardless of whether he'd deserved to be better known, he is someone obscure but Masur or Beecham are not and never were.
to the bolded - I agree. I suspect he was the acceptable face of East German Music for the regime and therefore got exposure outside the DDR through recordings and guest conducting concerts that by talent alone he
possibly did not deserve. So if anything the opposite of under the radar.
Beecham is harder to call. Clearly at the height of his career he was a major personality on the British music scene. His enduring recorded legacy is quite small - really the Delius recordings and the famous La Boheme plus a handful of other things. But his stature now is more a simple case of the ebb and flow of music/recording history. His legacy of forming both the RPO and the LPO will endure as long as both/either of those orchestras do let alone his association with Diaghilev and the UK premiering of Strauss operas.
Ok - so this is a rather tricky subject. When is a conductor neglected or under the radar?
Quote from: lordlance on March 21, 2024, 01:01:30 AMThat was my point with folks like Masur. They made tons and tons of recordings. sure, and some even held high posts (LGO and NYP are no small feat!) but somehow they never get brought up. His Liszt is unsurprising to be brought up. Not a lot of competition in the domain of complete tone poems and other orchestral works.
That is not true though. Karl and another poster keep listening to Masur. And Masur has done some big box issues, which would not be true if he was neglected.
It does pay to follow the listening thread, you'll discover all sorts of great stuff!
When his recordings are not well known/well distributed. That's neither true of Beecham nor Masur.
It's obvious for an obscure provincial guy like Müller-Kray who AFAIK never recorded for a major label, it's all radio productions often only published decades later because he accompanied someone 10-100 times as famous as he was.
It's at least plausible for quite few, most of whom died before the stereo age, e.g. Abendroth.
Of course, there will be many debatable cases. They were mostly either regionally well known but internationally not so much, or didn't make many recordings or were considered "solid" 2nd rank artist that made some contribution in niches.
Quote from: pjme on March 21, 2024, 03:07:50 AMOk - so this is a rather tricky subject. When is a conductor neglected or under the radar?
Easy: when other people like him/her less than I do. ;D
BTW,
Peter, you mentioned three names that I very much admire.
Manuel Rosenthal (his
Ravel and
Debussy are top-notch, and he was an indefatigable champion of obscurer French repertoire),
Ernest Bour (a very versatile conductor, who excelled in 20th century music), and
Ingo Metzmacher (I had the chance to see him live doing
Dallapiccola's
Il prigioniero, and it was excellent).
There are –of course- very many conductors who do not had/ or have a "glamorous" career ... Far too many to mention all those men (and women) working for radio stations or lesser known, lesser famous orchestras.
Often however, they were able to tackle unusual repertoire or were expected to conduct premieres.
A few names that I discovered over the years... + a (more or less exemplary) YT sample. I see also that many of them were composers and that, apparently, they often were motivated to perform music by fellow countrymen, teachers, friends etc.
History has a way of swallowing talented people and erasing them from public view.
Antonio de Almeida
https://youtu.be/X04B4Hk5sO4?si=Ru-cGiV-S1i7ElED (https://youtu.be/X04B4Hk5sO4?si=Ru-cGiV-S1i7ElED)
Tony Aubin
https://youtu.be/V9PVmFz1iZg?si=OAwo4df9CYQBMhSt (https://youtu.be/V9PVmFz1iZg?si=OAwo4df9CYQBMhSt)
Gilbert Amy
https://youtu.be/gcGnR8M6BC4?si=iOHdlgVHESJXCLaL (https://youtu.be/gcGnR8M6BC4?si=iOHdlgVHESJXCLaL)
Louis Auriacombe
https://youtu.be/kY0jeaWlPUg?si=kg7PkrIZJPc3ZHv1 (https://youtu.be/kY0jeaWlPUg?si=kg7PkrIZJPc3ZHv1)
Marius Constant
https://youtu.be/mdURohWzFKQ?si=I5mqJBDZC6BtXhI1 (https://youtu.be/mdURohWzFKQ?si=I5mqJBDZC6BtXhI1)
Roger Désormière
https://youtu.be/yvnKCm-LdgE?si=Hs5Ki8rsbx7zw14A (https://youtu.be/yvnKCm-LdgE?si=Hs5Ki8rsbx7zw14A)
Jean Fournet,
https://youtu.be/XY_VFwyQw34?si=VGFpp7jz6mrER5Ef (https://youtu.be/XY_VFwyQw34?si=VGFpp7jz6mrER5Ef)
Paul Paray
https://youtu.be/HWzLJOPBtvA?si=gVKEgKz9lU2_lSEo (https://youtu.be/HWzLJOPBtvA?si=gVKEgKz9lU2_lSEo)
Yan Pascal Tortelier
https://youtu.be/3MefXT08H2M?si=BsgFcY-w6gkscDnq (https://youtu.be/3MefXT08H2M?si=BsgFcY-w6gkscDnq)
Libor Pesek
https://youtu.be/-P-WIjFYMmQ?si=D4c958WVpgK6hHn_ (https://youtu.be/-P-WIjFYMmQ?si=D4c958WVpgK6hHn_)
Karel Sejna
https://youtu.be/gMadK_QYfmo?si=3FDre6bhUOia0cfn (https://youtu.be/gMadK_QYfmo?si=3FDre6bhUOia0cfn)
Martin Turnovsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX829snwqTE&list=OLAK5uy_kYDgsL0_Db3BtBCGf2xB4R7Vgh1jLf7-g&index=3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX829snwqTE&list=OLAK5uy_kYDgsL0_Db3BtBCGf2xB4R7Vgh1jLf7-g&index=3)
Vladimir Valek
https://youtu.be/10F3IxZkoCs?si=6hC8sPCOZPGzpRbR (https://youtu.be/10F3IxZkoCs?si=6hC8sPCOZPGzpRbR)
André Rieu senior
https://youtu.be/hr8bKy8-FdM?si=2Ske3vGO-IA_TW8g (https://youtu.be/hr8bKy8-FdM?si=2Ske3vGO-IA_TW8g)
Ed Spanjaard
https://youtu.be/etyXF_gaNaI?si=ncSuHUpSm1WisRes (https://youtu.be/etyXF_gaNaI?si=ncSuHUpSm1WisRes)
Eduard Flipse (his 1954 Mahler 8 drew in large crowds!)
https://youtu.be/54I87ct01Zc?si=G4Haxqho93uxHDiO (https://youtu.be/54I87ct01Zc?si=G4Haxqho93uxHDiO)
https://youtu.be/yg60msFgU6o?si=dWyXfe24iKF0h32s (https://youtu.be/yg60msFgU6o?si=dWyXfe24iKF0h32s)
Hans Vonk
https://youtu.be/m2PViWzkYIg?si=T2qBCWs2QVcfxttL (https://youtu.be/m2PViWzkYIg?si=T2qBCWs2QVcfxttL)
André Cluytens
https://youtu.be/HF6icXsK6xg?si=1UQg91xA1pEE4MoV (https://youtu.be/HF6icXsK6xg?si=1UQg91xA1pEE4MoV)
Pierre Bartholomée
https://youtu.be/vrPbp_zlTAE?si=F_IzZomMvjYIuSzx (https://youtu.be/vrPbp_zlTAE?si=F_IzZomMvjYIuSzx)
Désiré Defauw (Chicago + Brussels )
https://youtu.be/cfqOU6Q-Eo0?si=fTPCg4ZPRomGhs7p (https://youtu.be/cfqOU6Q-Eo0?si=fTPCg4ZPRomGhs7p)
Daniel Sternefeld (Brussels)
https://youtu.be/feZKDlB7Q-A?si=lTW8E3axG_1W2QGQ (https://youtu.be/feZKDlB7Q-A?si=lTW8E3axG_1W2QGQ)
Antonio Pedrotti (Prague)
https://youtu.be/0UP_WYCjSdw?si=zf0AeNa6BhkHqM5U (https://youtu.be/0UP_WYCjSdw?si=zf0AeNa6BhkHqM5U)
And from Japan: Hiroshi Wakasugi and Hiroyuki Iwaki, from Poland: Witold Rowicki....
Karl Munchinger, Peter Maag, Sandor Vegh, Claus-Peter Flor, Horst Stein
On the list from the last two posts Valek's Martinu, and Maag and Vegh's Mozart.
Howdy again.
A few things:
1. I suppose Gielen and Beecham are well-served with recordings. Like so many British conductors though Beecham is mostly referred by the British press (and citizens?)
2. I tried a few random Masur performances and his neglect is just unfortunately. Stiff, lacking energy.
3. I realize that essentially I just don't have any experience with East German conductors. I didn't know that Sanderling recorded Sibelius or was famous for Shostakovich.
4. Lots and lots of recommendations to go through. Thanks folks.
5.
@Daverz Is his (I am assuming he made one) stereo remake as good as the mono? I heard the Dorati mono Minnesota Roman Carnival Overture and found it to... not really be worth listening to anymore. The sound is pretty poor for a sonic spectacular like Roman Carnival. It's the same reason listening to historical Wagner feels pointless when the richness of the orchestra is so essential to the music itself unlike perhaps Beethoven. I heard the Ormandy mono Eulenspiegel. I didn't mind it there however.
Quote from: lordlance on March 23, 2024, 01:23:22 PM1. I suppose Gielen and Beecham are well-served with recordings. Like so many British conductors though Beecham is mostly referred by the British press (and citizens?)
Beecham was widely admired, not just in the UK. He has been both overrated and undertated over the years. Too much of his stuff is out of print now, though.
Quote2. I tried a few random Masur performances and his neglect is just unfortunately. Stiff, lacking energy.
Yes, he could be somewhat kapellmeisterish, so I wouldn't buy that big Masur box. But he was sometimes inspired, or at least very solid. I've heard good things about his Shostakovich Symphony No. 13, for example.
Quote5. @Daverz Is his (I am assuming he made one) stereo remake as good as the mono? =
I assume we're talking about Ormandy's 4 Legends. The EMI stereo is very much worth hearing, but I don't think it surpassed the earlier mono one. The analog stereo is still a bit bass-shy. Compare with the digital sonics Bis gave Jarvi a few years later in his recording.
Quote from: Daverz on March 23, 2024, 01:56:45 PMBeecham was widely admired, not just in the UK. He has been both overrated and undertated over the years. Too much of his stuff is out of print now, though.
Yes, he could be somewhat kapellmeisterish, so I wouldn't buy that big Masur box. But he was sometimes inspired, or at least very solid. I've heard good things about his Shostakovich Symphony No. 13, for example.
I assume we're talking about Ormandy's 4 Legends. The EMI stereo is very much worth hearing, but I don't think it surpassed the earlier mono one. The analog stereo is still a bit bass-shy. Compare with the digital sonics Bis gave Jarvi a few years later in his recording.
Yes I meant the Legends suite. The RCA Sony Columbia stuff will all be nicely boxed up in a few years. Is there a complete EMI box?
Quote from: lordlance on March 23, 2024, 03:49:54 PMYes I meant the Legends suite. The RCA Sony Columbia stuff will all be nicely boxed up in a few years. Is there a complete EMI box?
No Warner Ormandy box. Most of it seems to be available for streaming or download. In addition to the Sibelius, there was some great Hindemith, a fine Bartok Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta, and a Strauss Also Sprach Zarathrustra.
Any recommendations for Bruckner 4 and 6 specifically from neglected/under-the-radar conductors?
Quote from: lordlance on March 25, 2024, 09:17:39 AMAny recommendations for Bruckner 4 and 6 specifically from neglected/under-the-radar conductors?
I like the Sixth by Heinz Rögner/Roegner!
Quote from: Brian on March 25, 2024, 09:32:18 AMI like the Sixth by Heinz Rögner/Roegner!
Someone mentioned his Bruckner is fast. It's not Poschner fast is it? I am no "spiritual" Bruckner guy but Poschner makes the music underwhelming as heard in 1868-88 First.
I'm not sure about a direct comparison to Poschner but I do like my Bruckner to be quite fast and punchy so maybe you should ignore my suggestion. :)
We did a Bruckner Sixth blind listening game a few years ago. Jaap van Zweden's recording on Challenge Classics was the only "dark horse" candidate in the top 4 (which also included Klemperer, Wand, and the winner Celibidache). I quite liked Kent Nagano's version and purchased a copy of Dennis Russell Davies (definitely not the most famous conductor in the bracket) because amw said it was the most strictly true to the score.
Full thread: https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23157.0.html
EDIT: after rereading the old post in Bruckner's Abbey, amw said that Davies adopts Bruckner's tempo relationships as written, but not the actual metronome markings - he's about 15% slower than requested. amw wrote that the only conductor who followed the dictated (fast) tempi is Marcus Bosch.
Andrea Battistoni is my favorite current performing conductor. The only thing I have heard from that I haven't quite cared for is Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel orchestration).
Quote from: lordlance on March 25, 2024, 09:17:39 AMAny recommendations for Bruckner 4 and 6 specifically from neglected/under-the-radar conductors?
There's a Hans Vonk recording of the 4th with St. Louis.
In the "unlikely" rather than neglected category is Kertesz's lovely recording of the 4th.
I mentioned the Leitner recording of the 6th earlier, and Horst Stein has already been mentioned multiple times. The Stein is highly recommended if you don't have it already.
Quote from: lordlance on March 25, 2024, 09:17:39 AMAny recommendations for Bruckner 4 and 6 specifically from neglected/under-the-radar conductors?
Volkmar Andreae although I only know the 4th on Orfeo, there was later a whole? cycle published from radio or live recordings. Historical sound (1950s), though. It's a fast and passionate approach that has mostly vanished from Bruckner interpretation in the last 60 years.
Joseph Keilberth conducted the first stereo recording of Wagner's Ring cycle, live at Bayreuth in 1955 iirc. Testament re-released it some years ago.