Since there are other threads devoted to other nationalities, I wanted to create this one for Latin American Composers other than Chávez, Revueltas, Ginastera, Piazzolla, Villa-Lobos and Guarnieri to discuss their music and other stuff. Also, I was prompted to do it because of the enticing new Naxos releases on Brazilian composers. These two in question look quite intriguing:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYxOTkzOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTMzNjI5MzF9)(https://i.imgur.com/MP95HYn.png)
The Fernandez (a new name to me, btw) is due to release on 7 June and the Mignone on 26 July. The latter has received previous recordings on BIS (a very good one) and other labels.
Edit: I changed the name of the thread to cover Latin America in general.
GOOD THREAD!!!
Like you, I think Latin American composers had and have lots of interesting stuff to contribute to classical music.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 25, 2024, 10:47:06 AMLike you, I think Latin American composers had and have lots of interesting stuff to contribute to classical music.
I happened to listen to this disc again the other day;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+Orkd64VL._UF894,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg)
Superficially it looks like a "pops" disc but actually - apart from being really well played! - its a well constructed programme with a couple of "pops" - Estancia/West Side Story Mambo etc - balanced by some really interesting and quite unusual repertoire. Genuinely excellent and enjoyable.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2024, 10:52:05 AMI happened to listen to this disc again the other day;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+Orkd64VL._UF894,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg)
Superficially it looks like a "pops" disc but actually - apart from being really well played! - its a well constructed programme with a couple of "pops" - Estancia/West Side Story Mambo etc - balanced by some really interesting and quite unusual repertoire. Genuinely excellent and enjoyable.
Taking a look to the programme, I see it's certainly inventive and varied and there are some composers new to me (Carreño, Estévez, Castellanos and Romero). It seems that those didn't write much music, and recordings like that DG CD is a perfect entry point to be familiar with them.
Fernandez is most famous for a short piece, "Batuque," that was often used as an encore and national pride piece, and was recorded by Bernstein in New York. Batuque is included in that new Naxos CD in its original context as part of a suite. I'm very excited for both those new recordings.
BTW as an additional resource to this very good thread idea, there is also a thread specific to the Naxos Brazil recording series (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31982.0.html).
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 25, 2024, 11:09:14 AMTaking a look to the programme, I see it's certainly inventive and varied and there are some composers new to me (Carreño, Estévez, Castellanos and Romero). It seems that those didn't write much music, and recordings like that DG CD is a perfect entry point to be familiar with them.
Castellanos' Santa Cruz de Pacairigua is a simply amazing 17-minute piece - in length and structure it is roughly comparable to An American in Paris actually, with a wonderful contrast between "sacred" inspired music and folk festivals. The ending absolutely rocks!
-
Did anyone ever listen to that cycle of symphonies from Ecuador that was released a few years ago on Brilliant?
Danças Brasileiras. São Paulo Symphony Orchestra, Roberto Minczuk. Fun, introductory recording.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n_4ZXIkiFOvpLpt9qvmy7l1-Cw4ZprNHk&playnext=1&index=1
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNDMyMi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MDYwOTI1NzN9)
Thanks for the recommendations. I see the Fernandez's Batuque Brian mentioned on the disc Manabu posted. I'll investigate further.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2024, 10:52:05 AMI happened to listen to this disc again the other day;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+Orkd64VL._UF894,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg)
Superficially it looks like a "pops" disc but actually - apart from being really well played! - its a well constructed programme with a couple of "pops" - Estancia/West Side Story Mambo etc - balanced by some really interesting and quite unusual repertoire. Genuinely excellent and enjoyable.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 25, 2024, 11:09:14 AMTaking a look to the programme, I see it's certainly inventive and varied and there are some composers new to me (Carreño, Estévez, Castellanos and Romero). It seems that those didn't write much music, and recordings like that DG CD is a perfect entry point to be familiar with them.
That Dudamel disc was one of my entry points into Latin American music. I knew a little bit of Villa-Lobos, Ginastera and Chávez before, but this is the recording that introduced me to Revueltas. That wonderful
Sensemayá really blew my top of when I heard it.
It's a shame that Dudamel seems to kind of stopped recording (and perhaps performing, too as I don't know every single concert program he had with the LA Philharmonic) Latin American music. For example, I'd love to hear a Chávez symphony cycle from him, but it'll probably never happen.
Quote from: Brian on May 25, 2024, 12:54:07 PMFernandez is most famous for a short piece, "Batuque," that was often used as an encore and national pride piece, and was recorded by Bernstein in New York. Batuque is included in that new Naxos CD in its original context as part of a suite. I'm very excited for both those new recordings.
BTW as an additional resource to this very good thread idea, there is also a thread specific to the Naxos Brazil recording series (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31982.0.html).
Castellanos' Santa Cruz de Pacairigua is a simply amazing 17-minute piece - in length and structure it is roughly comparable to An American in Paris actually, with a wonderful contrast between "sacred" inspired music and folk festivals. The ending absolutely rocks!
-
Did anyone ever listen to that cycle of symphonies from Ecuador that was released a few years ago on Brilliant?
You mean Luis Humberto Salgado 9 Symphonies on 3 discs I guess -
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71lO8D9N5hL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
I'd missed that (not sure how) but the online reviews are enthusiastic and it looks right up my street so I've just ordered it off Amazon. I do love a good impulse purchase......
Yesterday I was hearing Castellanos' Santa Cruz de Pacairigua following the recommendations by Roasted Swan and Brian, and I enjoyed it very much (thank you!). It succeeded my expectations, it's possibly the most accomplished work by a Venezuelan composer I've ever heard, full of vibrant Latin American rhythms, a masterful use of the orchestra and a convincing sense of narrative as well. Impressive work.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 26, 2024, 01:53:49 PMYesterday I was hearing Castellanos' Santa Cruz de Pacairigua following the recommendations by Roasted Swan and Brian, and I enjoyed it very much (thank you!). It succeeded my expectations, it's possibly the most accomplished work by a Venezuelan composer I've ever heard, full of vibrant Latin American rhythms, a masterful use of the orchestra and a convincing sense of narrative as well. Impressive work.
Hurray!!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2024, 10:56:30 PMYou mean Luis Humberto Salgado 9 Symphonies on 3 discs I guess -
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71lO8D9N5hL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
I'd missed that (not sure how) but the online reviews are enthusiastic and it looks right up my street so I've just ordered it off Amazon. I do love a good impulse purchase......
Thanks for your courageous research!
Speaking of Venezuelan composers, I wish there was more known about Antonio Estévez. Some of you might remember him from the works Cantata Criolla and the orchestral work Mediodía en el Llano (both works have been recorded at least twice). Anyway, he's a really fine composer (or, at least, based on those two works) and now his works are being published by Universal Edition.
And speaking of wishlists and wishing for more info - I wish we had complete recordings of two ballets, Horsepower by Carlos Chavez and La Rebambaramba by Amadeo Roldan. The latter is a technicolor Cuban dance extravaganza that has had a 9-minute suite recorded by Michael Tilson Thomas; the former has had suites recorded and apparently even had a complete recording done by RCA with Eduardo Mata and the LSO - but RCA never released it. Horsepower attracted major talent: Diego Rivera did the sets and costumes, Stokowski conducted the premiere, and Copland, Gershwin, Frida Kahlo, and Rivera attended the premiere.
(Chavez does have his own thread (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9264.0.html) but I like blabbing.)
Quote from: Brian on May 26, 2024, 07:48:53 PMAnd speaking of wishlists and wishing for more info - I wish we had complete recordings of two ballets, Horsepower by Carlos Chavez and La Rebambaramba by Amadeo Roldan. The latter is a technicolor Cuban dance extravaganza that has had a 9-minute suite recorded by Michael Tilson Thomas; the former has had suites recorded and apparently even had a complete recording done by RCA with Eduardo Mata and the LSO - but RCA never released it. Horsepower attracted major talent: Diego Rivera did the sets and costumes, Stokowski conducted the premiere, and Copland, Gershwin, Frida Kahlo, and Rivera attended the premiere.
(Chavez does have his own thread (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9264.0.html) but I like blabbing.)
I don't believe a complete recording of either of those works will ever happen. It seems like Latin American composers are of little interest to record labels. I mean I know Naxos, Dorian, BIS and a few other labels have had recordings dedicated to these composers, but it doesn't seem like that interest was sustained in any way that would get works like Chávez's complete
Caballos de vapor recorded. Eduardo Mata's recording not being released by RCA is a travesty, especially after they had released that 2-CD set of Revueltas so many years ago. It doesn't seem like Mata has generated enough interest for them to even bother. A case in point: the Chávez box set released by Sony could've been expanded to include recordings in the RCA catalog (since Sony owns them) and this could've been capitalized on, but it never happened.
I was lucky enough about 14-15 years ago to find that
Musica Mexicana box set on Brilliant Classics, which were reissued from the ASV of the same name. That box set had some unusual repertoire that you just can't find anywhere else. So many missed opportunities and there's no telling just how much music these labels are sitting on that is just waiting to be devoured by the record-buying public.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 26, 2024, 08:10:28 PMI don't believe a complete recording of either of those works will ever happen. It seems like Latin American composers are of little interest to record labels. I mean I know Naxos, Dorian, BIS and a few other labels have had recordings dedicated to these composers, but it doesn't seem like that interest was sustained in any way that would get works like Chávez's complete Caballos de vapor recorded. Eduardo Mata's recording not being released by RCA is a travesty, especially after they had released that 2-CD set of Revueltas so many years ago. It doesn't seem like Mata has generated enough interest for them to even bother. A case in point: the Chávez box set released by Sony could've been expanded to include recordings in the RCA catalog (since Sony owns them) and this could've been capitalized on, but it never happened.
I was lucky enough about 14-15 years ago to find that Musica Mexicana box set on Brilliant Classics, which were reissued from the ASV of the same name. That box set had some unusual repertoire that you just can't find anywhere else. So many missed opportunities and there's no telling just how much music these labels are sitting on that is just waiting to be devoured by the record-buying public.
You are quite right - That Musica Mexicana box is a veritable treasure trove. I assume it went out of print quite quickly just because of low sales. You can still find the individual/original ASV releases if you hunt around - sometimes cheap often not. The Naxos "Music of Brazil" series is very impressive I think - but of course in effect state sponsored hence the breadth and number of releases. In the grander scheme what that must cost Brazil to underwrite is tiny compared to the global cultural outreach it has - even allowing for the tiny niche within a niche of CM fans who listen to Latin American music.
My personal bugbear (I think we all have a few of those!) is that institutions like the BBC Proms do not take advantage of their platform to promote this music which is appealing/attractive/accessible. It also touches base with the "world music" remit that seems to be important to Proms Planners now. I simply do not understand how anyone who is in that planning position cannot have heard/been impressed by this music and instantly include it in a season.
I have that Salgado box, and I'm still trying to get over how disappointingly dry the recordings sound. On a whim I decided to listen to the 6th Symphony yesterday, the one scored for strings and drums. Pleasant enough.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2024, 11:24:24 PMMy personal bugbear (I think we all have a few of those!) is that institutions like the BBC Proms do not take advantage of their platform to promote this music which is appealing/attractive/accessible. It also touches base with the "world music" remit that seems to be important to Proms Planners now. I simply do not understand how anyone who is in that planning position cannot have heard/been impressed by this music and instantly include it in a season.
Last fall I had the opportunity to interview the Dallas Symphony's program planner/artistic director and I gently asked her why they've only programmed one Latin American work in the last two years. I said something like, do you know how many people in Texas specifically will come into the concert hall to see that music? Literally 40% of the people who live here share that heritage. She said something about trying to balance all the different things everyone wants to hear... (Oh really? In that case why do we need to do all five Beethoven piano concertos every two years?) I said something about how the Latin American repertoire is so deep and so amazing that you could easily program a different piece every single month. Unfortunately she got hung up on "oh you can't introduce quotas, quotas are bad" rather than addressing the repertoire.
We had to move on to another subject for time reasons. She told me programming choices fall in four buckets: core rep to sell tickets, obscure passion projects and revivals of old works, new commissions and premieres, and contemporary music that has already premiered. Her particular focus as a planner is to scout out contemporary composers, make the new commissions, join commissioning groups with other orchestras (we teamed up with the LPO this year), and try to convince guest conductors to agree to perform whatever new piece. Then she balances that out with all the core rep to make sure people go.
By contrast, the obscure old music revivals/passion projects
are artist directed. She doesn't want to impose her personal wishlist, so the revivals happen if a solo chair wants to do a concerto - like our harp player is doing Henriette Renie's harp concerto next year - or if a conductor has a special calling card - like Jakub Hrusa doing Mystery of Time or Fabio Luisi demanding Schmidt's Book of Seven Seals.
So even though I want to blame the planner for everything, I am accidentally starting to convince myself that the problem stems from conductors, soloists, etc. simply not knowing the Latino repertoire and not being taught it in schools. If pianists start learning Guarnieri concertos, conducting competitions start including Sensemaya, etc., maybe that's when change begins.
EDIT: Sensemaya would be a fiendish piece for a conducting competition with that time signature! They should all set it!
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 26, 2024, 08:10:28 PMEduardo Mata's recording not being released by RCA is a travesty, especially after they had released that 2-CD set of Revueltas so many years ago. It doesn't seem like Mata has generated enough interest for them to even bother.
I still hold out some hope that Sony will get around to a complete Mata box some day. They're doing every other conductor ever recorded it seems like...
Quote from: Brian on May 27, 2024, 06:09:21 AMLast fall I had the opportunity to interview the Dallas Symphony's program planner/artistic director and I gently asked her why they've only programmed one Latin American work in the last two years. I said something like, do you know how many people in Texas specifically will come into the concert hall to see that music? Literally 40% of the people who live here share that heritage. She said something about trying to balance all the different things everyone wants to hear... (Oh really? In that case why do we need to do all five Beethoven piano concertos every two years?) I said something about how the Latin American repertoire is so deep and so amazing that you could easily program a different piece every single month. Unfortunately she got hung up on "oh you can't introduce quotas, quotas are bad" rather than addressing the repertoire.
We had to move on to another subject for time reasons. She told me programming choices fall in four buckets: core rep to sell tickets, obscure passion projects and revivals of old works, new commissions and premieres, and contemporary music that has already premiered. Her particular focus as a planner is to scout out contemporary composers, make the new commissions, join commissioning groups with other orchestras (we teamed up with the LPO this year), and try to convince guest conductors to agree to perform whatever new piece. Then she balances that out with all the core rep to make sure people go.
By contrast, the obscure old music revivals/passion projects are artist directed. She doesn't want to impose her personal wishlist, so the revivals happen if a solo chair wants to do a concerto - like our harp player is doing Henriette Renie's harp concerto next year - or if a conductor has a special calling card - like Jakub Hrusa doing Mystery of Time or Fabio Luisi demanding Schmidt's Book of Seven Seals.
So even though I want to blame the planner for everything, I am accidentally starting to convince myself that the problem stems from conductors, soloists, etc. simply not knowing the Latino repertoire and not being taught it in schools. If pianists start learning Guarnieri concertos, conducting competitions start including Sensemaya, etc., maybe that's when change begins.
EDIT: Sensemaya would be a fiendish piece for a conducting competition with that time signature! They should all set it!
To the bolded text - I think you are essentially correct but I would go further. Forums such as this - and the people who contribute here -
tend to be interested in the highways and byeways of their own particular fields of interest - baroque to contemporary or film or whatever. However, my experience of performing professionally is that most performers do
not have a range of knowledge of repertoire. Obviously there are many great exceptions to this - conductors who seek out the obscure and the unknown but many conductors seem to beleive they have to "prove" themselves in the core repertoire. I know from first hand expereince that players in major orchestras and ensembles are completely ignorant of whole swathes of composers and their music. That's partly education but also - to be fair - players are up to their ears learning the repertoire that is appearing in this coming concert/next week's concert to spend what little spare time they have listening to obscure music as well.
Likewise soloists and conductors have to weigh up - artistic considerations aside - how likely they are to be booked to play unknown music and quite literally is it commercially worth their while to learn complex music for one or two performances. My feeling is that if the music is good enough it should be heard and as a performer I have always leant towards playing little known music. In part simply because I feel I have more to say playing Bax than Beethoven. And I don't want to be compared to all the greats playing Beethoven thankyou very much! (even if I felt I had anything to add to the existing knowledge of the music....)
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2024, 11:24:24 PMYou are quite right - That Musica Mexicana box is a veritable treasure trove. I assume it went out of print quite quickly just because of low sales. You can still find the individual/original ASV releases if you hunt around - sometimes cheap often not. The Naxos "Music of Brazil" series is very impressive I think - but of course in effect state sponsored hence the breadth and number of releases. In the grander scheme what that must cost Brazil to underwrite is tiny compared to the global cultural outreach it has - even allowing for the tiny niche within a niche of CM fans who listen to Latin American music.
My personal bugbear (I think we all have a few of those!) is that institutions like the BBC Proms do not take advantage of their platform to promote this music which is appealing/attractive/accessible. It also touches base with the "world music" remit that seems to be important to Proms Planners now. I simply do not understand how anyone who is in that planning position cannot have heard/been impressed by this music and instantly include it in a season.
I think a lot of it stems from wanting to make money (i. e. filling seats) more than anything else. Considering how tight budgets are nowadays for the arts, I can understand from a financial point why orchestra boards are reluctant to perform more repertoire outside of what is known to us as the mainstream. This is why Beethoven and Brahms are on concert programs a lot (I love both of these composers' music of course), but, for many of us here on GMG (and other classical boards, too), it's just boring. On the other hand, something that doesn't make sense to me is
if a US orchestra is going to promote a composer like Florence Price or William Grant Still, why not promote Villa-Lobos or Ginastera, too? It's the selectiveness due to whatever the latest political trend is from these orchestra boards which disappoints me the most. This is
why I'm so thankful for the recorded medium. Imagine having to only rely on what your local orchestra is playing or even the radio to hear so much of this unusual repertoire or music that's off the well-trodden path.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2024, 07:43:19 AMI think a lot of it stems from wanting to make money (i. e. filling seats) more than anything else. Considering how tight budgets are nowadays for the arts, I can understand from a financial point why orchestra boards are reluctant to perform more repertoire outside of what is known to us as the mainstream. This is why Beethoven and Brahms are on concert programs a lot (I love both of these composers' music of course), but, for many of us here on GMG (and other classical boards, too), it's just boring. On the other hand, something that doesn't make sense to me is if a US orchestra is going to promote a composer like Florence Price or William Grant Still, why not promote Villa-Lobos or Ginastera, too? It's the selectiveness due to whatever the latest political trend is from these orchestra boards which disappoints me the most. This is why I'm so thankful for the recorded medium. Imagine having to only rely on what your local orchestra is playing or even the radio to hear so much of this unusual repertoire or music that's off the well-trodden path.
100% agreed
I wish I could like those recordings of Salgado's symphonies, but the quality of the performances prevent me from giving them a proper try.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2024, 12:37:16 PMI wish I could like those recordings of Salgado's symphonies, but the quality of the performances prevent me from giving them a proper try.
Exactly the problem I have with them.
Quote from: Maestro267 on May 27, 2024, 11:00:02 PMExactly the problem I have with them.
Oh dear - I had a first dip yesterday and on CD1 there is some really rough playing. Good old fashioned out of tune not together violas and blarty brass. Not a good start.....
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2024, 10:52:05 AMI happened to listen to this disc again the other day;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+Orkd64VL._UF894,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg)
Superficially it looks like a "pops" disc but actually - apart from being really well played! - its a well constructed programme with a couple of "pops" - Estancia/West Side Story Mambo etc - balanced by some really interesting and quite unusual repertoire. Genuinely excellent and enjoyable.
This is a hugely enjoyable and expertly programmed disc - I love every work on it! Others have rightly singled out Castellanos' colorful
Santa Cruz de Pacairigua, but the highlight of the disc for me is
Inocente Carreño's Margariteña (1954). A 13-minute set of variations on a simple tune, its radiant, open-air joyousness is strikingly reminiscent of the music of GMG favorite Joly Braga Santos, who was composing his first four symphonies "across the pond" at around the same time. I, for one, would very much like to hear more of Mr. Carreño's music, but not much else has been recorded, and it's frustratingly difficult to find a catalogue of his compositions.
And, as others have mentioned, I find it quite disappointing how Dudamel has basically ignored Latin American music ever since recording this album way back in 2008. Just goes to show how once artists acquire international fame like Dudamel has, they often comfortably retire to a "safe" diet of Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, etc. instead of using their status to promote lesser-known music... ::)
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 27, 2024, 07:00:21 AMTo the bolded text - I think you are essentially correct but I would go further. Forums such as this - and the people who contribute here - tend to be interested in the highways and byeways of their own particular fields of interest - baroque to contemporary or film or whatever. However, my experience of performing professionally is that most performers do not have a range of knowledge of repertoire. Obviously there are many great exceptions to this - conductors who seek out the obscure and the unknown but many conductors seem to beleive they have to "prove" themselves in the core repertoire. I know from first hand expereince that players in major orchestras and ensembles are completely ignorant of whole swathes of composers and their music. That's partly education but also - to be fair - players are up to their ears learning the repertoire that is appearing in this coming concert/next week's concert to spend what little spare time they have listening to obscure music as well.
Likewise soloists and conductors have to weigh up - artistic considerations aside - how likely they are to be booked to play unknown music and quite literally is it commercially worth their while to learn complex music for one or two performances. My feeling is that if the music is good enough it should be heard and as a performer I have always leant towards playing little known music. In part simply because I feel I have more to say playing Bax than Beethoven. And I don't want to be compared to all the greats playing Beethoven thankyou very much! (even if I felt I had anything to add to the existing knowledge of the music....)
Very much agree with this! As someone who's also pretty involved in the performance side of the classical music world, I can confirm that
most other performing musicians are considerably less interested in/aware of non-standard repertoire than we are here in our GMG "bubble". In particular, many American orchestral musicians seem perfectly content with playing Beethoven 5 for the zillionth time and display a rather contemptuous attitude to music not written by "The Greats". ("How could it be good if I haven't heard of it?", etc.) I find that my fellow students as well as chamber musicians generally have a more open-minded attitude and broader knowledge when it comes to lesser-known music. On a positive note: for my two most recent recitals I performed the Kabalevsky Cello Sonata and the Finzi Cello Concerto (neither of which are commonly played), amongst other, more "standard" works. And, when I conversed with audience members afterwards (mostly fellow students), the vast majority said how much they particularly enjoyed the Kabalevsky and Finzi works and how they were the highlights of each program! :)
Quote from: kyjo on May 28, 2024, 01:44:15 PMVery much agree with this! As someone who's also pretty involved in the performance side of the classical music world, I can confirm that most other performing musicians are considerably less interested in/aware of non-standard repertoire than we are here in our GMG "bubble". In particular, many American orchestral musicians seem perfectly content with playing Beethoven 5 for the zillionth time and display a rather contemptuous attitude to music not written by "The Greats". ("How could it be good if I haven't heard of it?", etc.) I find that my fellow students as well as chamber musicians generally have a more open-minded attitude and broader knowledge when it comes to lesser-known music. On a positive note: for my two most recent recitals I performed the Kabalevsky Cello Sonata and the Finzi Cello Concerto (neither of which are commonly played), amongst other, more "standard" works. And, when I conversed with audience members afterwards (mostly fellow students), the vast majority said how much they particularly enjoyed the Kabalevsky and Finzi works and how they were the highlights of each program! :)
This is off-thread (for which I apologise and won't do again!) but I wanted to respond directly here to Kyjo's post. Brilliant that you are programming the Kabalevsky and Finzi - two genuinely towering works.
2 quick stories - different kind of repertoire, but when I used to run my own (professsional but small) orchestra and also conducted a reasonably good amateur orchestra I
always tried to build programmes that combined the familiar with the unknown. The familiar so that people could feel 'comfortable' with part of the programme instantly/in advance but the unfamiliar to demonstrate an equivalence - "you might not know this but isn't it just as good as familiar work "X" . The problem is - and it is VERY deepseated - that even within the music written by a famous composer - say Tchaikovsky - the desire is to hear/play Symphonies 4-6 not 1-3 and there is almost zero curiosity about 1-3. I suspect everyone on this forum is of the same mindset as me; "ooh Tchaik 4-6 are great I wonder what 1-3 are like..." [insert own preferred genre here!] The wider listening public are not curious and 4-6 are 'enough'. Of course commercial radio stations could
easily promote any work they so chose and through the endless repetition create familiarity. In the UK Classic FM launched and made Gorecki 3 (2nd movement only mind!!) a key work so within a year it was a "pops" piece and the composer a familiar name. They no longer play that piece so he has dropped off all their "best of" lists.
This next observation bothers me more.... A few years ago I was the guest of a composer at a concert of his music by a major Scandanavian orchestra conducted by an up and coming young German conductor. The programme (aside from my friend's work) included DSCH 10. The concert was a big success and at the reception afterwards the orchestra's manager/chairman was speaking to the conductor (I was standing there listening in) about coming back to do more concerts. It was suggested that the conductor might like to do a Nielsen symphony...? The conductor - without any sense of embarassment - explained that he had
heard of Nielsen but had never listened to any of his music so could not say what he thought. I was absolutely blown away that a young well-trained musically literate musician had never - even out of mild curiosity or interest - taken the time to hear ANY of the music of one of the 20th Century's most significant symphonists. Fine if he'd said "I don't currently have any of those symphonies in my active repertoire" but to NOT KNOW them is flabbergasting. Particularly in this age of ubiquity and ease of musical access. For me that implies a sense of blinkered disinterest. You
need to be aware as a performer of the whole wide range of music to understand where the piece you are currently working on "fits". No piece sits in splendid isolation musically or socially from the rest of the music around it. Anyway - I have no idea if he ever did return to this orchestra and/or conduct Nielsen - if he did how could it have been anything except superficial......
Amazing how in this time where technology and the internet allow so many possibilities, still many people are reluctant to see and discover beyond their limited comfort zone. Well, good for them (or their bad), at least listeners like many of us don't have that narrow mind.
Enjoying this fresh release. The short Reisado do Pastoreio (A Pastoral Epiphany) contains the music with more Brazilian flavour, and oddly enough in the 3rd movement Batuque there is a gesture/rhythmic motive that reminded me of one of the first movement of Atterberg's Symphony No. 8. The Symphony No. 1 has more European influences, but it retains the Brazilian identity. A good work overall. The recording finishes with the most impressive work on it, the Symphony No. 2 O Caçador de Esmeraldas (The Emerald Hunter) which was inspired by the life and death of the heroic 17th-century explorer Fernão Dias Paes Leme. It inhabits a more heroic sound world and the music conveys struggle and tragedy in places (the climax of the slow movement is quite powerful). Another interesting detail that intrigued me, regarding the two symphonies, was an uncanny similarity to Bax's style in the 4th movement from the Symphony No. 1 and in the 1st movement from the Symphony No. 2. There is something epic in the writing and use of the orchestra that brought that English composer to mind, not sure if others can perceive it as well.
Anyway, a worthwhile discovery, above all for the marvellous Symphony No. 2.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574412.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 29, 2024, 10:16:45 AMAmazing how in this time where technology and the internet allow so many possibilities, still many people are reluctant to see and discover beyond their limited comfort zone. Well, good for them (or their bad), at least listeners like many of us don't have that narrow mind.
I think a lot of boils down to exposure for many people. Even classical listeners who are supposedly "well versed" in this music have blindspots. But, yes, I do think there's an unwillingness to get beyond what someone knows simply because they feel that either the music won't be very good or that it may prove to be a waste of their time.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 09, 2024, 06:40:43 AMI think a lot of boils down to exposure for many people. Even classical listeners who are supposedly "well versed" in this music have blindspots. But, yes, I do think there's an unwillingness to get beyond what someone knows simply because they feel that either the music won't be very good or that it may prove to be a waste of their time.
I think you are right, but also I think of lot of folk - for whatever reason - simply cannot be bothered to explore the unknown. There is a sense that what they know and like is "enough". I don't cite it as a virtue but I suspect frequent visitors to this kind of forum are more driven by the unending search for something new - what you know already is never enough.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 09, 2024, 09:57:34 AMI think you are right, but also I think of lot of folk - for whatever reason - simply cannot be bothered to explore the unknown. There is a sense that what they know and like is "enough". I don't cite it as a virtue but I suspect frequent visitors to this kind of forum are more driven by the unending search for something new - what you know already is never enough.
That's certainly true. Us GMGers are a different breed for sure. I've known people in my life that only have a handful of CDs in their entire music collection (if one wants to call it that) and they're completely content. For me, the more I know is actually the less I know, because I never stop learning new things, but a lot of this boils down to
wanting to be open to new possibilities.
To be released on September 27th:
(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/NX4572.jpg)
Listened to this CPO recording that includes three chamber works by the Argentinian composer Constantino Gaito (1878-1945): Piano Quintet, Piano Trio and Cello Sonata. Not properly Argentinian in their sound world, but rather late-Romantic, close to the French school. The disc is worth listening for the thoroughly charming, idyllic, delectable and fairly melodic Piano Quintet, a work full of joie de vivre. The other pieces are less effusive, but they do offer pleasant moments.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyMjk3NS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)
To be probably released in November:
(https://i.imgur.com/YdNqhDe.png)
The four works on this recent recording are simply wonderful. Two concertos for guitar and violin and two concertinos for clarinet and bassoon respectively. Mignone's sense of orchestral colour shines effortlessly, just like his handling of rhythm and melody; the last movements from both concertinos illustrate those two elements quite well, you can't ask for anything more vital and catchy. These four concertante pieces feel so fresh, autochthonous, playful and decidedly fun. The Violin Concerto possesses a little more of gravitas and seriousness, though. Much as Villa-Lobos's Guitar Concerto has gained a place in the repertoire, I think the Mignone is more interesting and with more personality. A cool moment in that work occurs in the third movement where the woodwinds seem imitating a dog barking in the distance.
A most sensational release. I haven't heard all of this Brazilian series, but it has all the attributes to be considered one of the very best in my view. One of my discs of the year.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574573.jpg)
Another home run by this composer. A scintillating piano concerto with lots of Brazilian flavour and that often reminds of Rachmaninov without being derivative. I imagine Naxos will record this phenomenal piece on its Brazilian series in due time.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/SOMMCD265.jpg)
To be released on October 25th:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTY4NTg2Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MjY2Njg3MTd9)
- Juan Bautista Plaza: Vigilia
- Evencio Castellanos: Santa Cruz de Pacairigua; El Río de las Siete Estrellas
- Inocente Carreño: Margariteña
- Antonio Estévez: Mediodía en el Llano
- Yuri Hung: Kanaima
A rather tasty program.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 02, 2024, 08:12:57 PMTo be released on September 27th:
(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/NX4572.jpg)
No.4 is a fine work (also on BIS)
Quote from: vandermolen on September 20, 2024, 05:52:48 PMNo.4 is a fine work (also on BIS)
Yes, it is! It'll be interesting to compare both recordings, Jeffrey.
@Symphonic Addict, I tried to send you a PM, but it wouldn't go through. Would you mind sending me a PM?
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 20, 2024, 07:59:21 PM@Symphonic Addict, I tried to send you a PM, but it wouldn't go through. Would you mind sending me a PM?
Done!
To be released on January 24th 2025.
(https://i.imgur.com/vdUy263.png)
(https://i.discogs.com/E6WS-T-yscDFNY2Z-UTicVRnmSx1bAsNFD6vCF7jAWM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI2OTE1/MDQ4LTE2ODI3MTg4/NzUtNzA2NC5qcGVn.jpeg)
(https://www.ccincagarcilaso.gob.pe/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/compositores-peruanos-e1621517658243.png)
Now here's something new and rather impressive;
Jenny Peña Campo's substantial [35:00] Cuban Suite. This seems to be the first work by Peña Campo that has been recorded and it really is very good - not exactly breaking down the walls of modernism or anything that extreme but just very well written. The new release is this;
(https://cdn.outhere-music.com/outhere.prod/public/styles/col4_mobile/public/imported/albums/gershwin-montsalvatge-bernstein--jenny-pe%C3%B1a-campo-fug832-20241126113014-front.jpg?itok=2Iq6Nfvp)
which is of a 2024 New Year's Concert by a Dutch orchestra with their British conductor. The playing is perfectly good but
not great - there's a bit of a sense of hair not being fully let down! On Peña Campo's website there is a brief excerpt of a rehearsal with a French Orchestra from 5 years back that is instantly more vibrant. But genuinely the whole work is worth hearing. This is the sort of work you can imagine Dudamel absolutely nailing......
To be released on 16 May:
(https://i.imgur.com/gskqigm.jpeg)
brasilian brass
https://www.brazilianmusicforbrass.com/composicoes-para-banda-sinfonica
(https://www.mendezmarcela.com.ar/shop/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/11/IMG_5710-3.jpg)
The star of this fresh release is undoubtedly the choral Symphony No. 2 'Brasília' created in response to a competition organised in 1960 by Brazil's Ministry of Education and Culture to celebrate the construction of Brasília. A lively, optimistic piece featuring vibrant orchestration and with lots of ongoing action. The cool choral interventions highlight its popular roots. In the 4th movement, the composer calls for a speaker to recite excerpts from the speech made by President Juscelino Kubitschek to the workers who had built Brasília.
The Symphony No. 1 has its moments despite being overtly serialistic/dodecaphonic. The Nonet, whilst serialistic too, did leave me cold.
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.573926.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 09, 2025, 12:11:06 PMThe star of this fresh release is undoubtedly the choral Symphony No. 2 'Brasília' created in response to a competition organised in 1960 by Brazil's Ministry of Education and Culture to celebrate the construction of Brasília. A lively, optimistic piece featuring vibrant orchestration and with lots of ongoing action. The cool choral interventions highlight its popular roots. In the 4th movement, the composer calls for a speaker to recite excerpts from the speech made by President Juscelino Kubitschek to the workers who had built Brasília.
The Symphony No. 1 has its moments despite being overtly serialistic/dodecaphonic. The Nonet, whilst serialistic too, did leave me cold.
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.573926.jpg)
This recording uses a recording of the actual speech given by President Juscelino Kubitschek. Its a big 40+ minute work. Not sure it really worked for me - too much of a collage of interesting moments that don't quite collalesce together...... well played and well recorded mind.
I'm still waiting for a modern recording of Villa-Lobos' Harp Concerto. I hope the Naxos Brazil series circles back around to V-L at some point. Oh and Guarnieri, too. I'd love to hear another symphony cycle. I mean the Neschling on BIS is outstanding of course, but it's always good to hear a different interpretation.
There are 6 cds
(https://i.discogs.com/45567zv5TOVodg7zu34cZ91gZIycUYTOCT3VQa-YurM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:500/w:500/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMzMTMx/ODk1LTE3Mzk0ODM2/ODMtNzM1Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
Errata corrige
here tells 10 cds
https://lojaclassicos.com.br/produto/coleomignonevol10mignoneeorquestraii/
Two early sonatas that didn't lack charm and three mature ones where his personal voice surface. The latter contain so good music, showing the capricious, experimental, unpredictable and somewhat irreverent side of their creator. Truly ear-fetching. As for the performances, the tone of the violin was the element that left me undecided.
This is one of the most generously filled discs I've come across recently: 85:35 min!
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574595.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 15, 2025, 04:45:43 PMTwo early sonatas that didn't lack charm and three mature ones where his personal voice surface. The latter contain so good music, showing the capricious, experimental, unpredictable and somewhat irreverent side of their creator. Truly ear-fetching. As for the performances, the tone of the violin was the element that left me undecided.
This is one of the most generously filled discs I've come across recently: 85:35 min!
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574595.jpg)
This isn't the same duo that performed the Villa-Lobos
Violin Sonatas on Naxos, but Emmanuele Baldini plays violin on the V-L disc as he does here on the Mignone. I don't care for his violin tone at all. In fact, when I heard that a new recording of the V-L VSs was going to be released I was rather excited. Unfortunately, the performances left much to be desired and I actually thought the violin/piano were both mic'd way too close. Disappointing!
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on May 15, 2025, 05:32:52 PMThis isn't the same duo that performed the Villa-Lobos Violin Sonatas on Naxos, but Emmanuele Baldini plays violin on the V-L disc as he does here on the Mignone. I don't care for his violin tone at all. In fact, when I heard that a new recording of the V-L VSs was going to be released I was rather excited. Unfortunately, the performances left much to be desired and I actually thought the violin/piano were both mic'd way too close. Disappointing!
I haven't heard that recording of Villa-Lobos sonatas yet, and it's a shame that they're played by the same performers as here. Unfortunately, there are no many options to choose from.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 15, 2025, 07:09:06 PMI haven't heard that recording of Villa-Lobos sonatas yet, and it's a shame that they're played by the same performers as here. Unfortunately, there are no many options to choose from.
In the V-L recording, a different pianist is used:
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music125/v4/14/af/1a/14af1af2-0d28-c64e-cd33-6b3630bf7b12/747313431076.jpg/600x600bb.jpg)
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on May 15, 2025, 08:10:35 PMIn the V-L recording, a different pianist is used:
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music125/v4/14/af/1a/14af1af2-0d28-c64e-cd33-6b3630bf7b12/747313431076.jpg/600x600bb.jpg)
Got it, so the "problem" would come being the violinist.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 16, 2025, 05:27:02 PMGot it, so the "problem" would come being the violinist.
Well, yes, but also that both violinist and pianist are too closely mic'd.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 16, 2025, 05:27:02 PMGot it, so the "problem" would come being the violinist.
Baldini is the concerto soloist on a couple of recent Naxos Music of Brazil discs playing Mignone and Santos - very well indeed I thought. So I suspect its the engineering that is responsible for any ungratifying string sounds here!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 16, 2025, 11:08:26 PMBaldini is the concerto soloist on a couple of recent Naxos Music of Brazil discs playing Mignone and Santos - very well indeed I thought. So I suspect its the engineering that is responsible for any ungraifying string sounds here!
Yes, as I pointed out, both violinist/pianist are too closely mic'd. There isn't any space in the recording and, for me, this why I just can't listen to that recording of the V-L sonatas for example.
More Mignone means more marvelous music. It should be released on August or September.
(https://i.imgur.com/ElmGTNH.png)
That cover art is hypnotizing me!
Quote from: Brian on June 12, 2025, 06:01:39 PMThat cover art is hypnotizing me!
Yeah, it looks like it should be on a Ligeti album cover.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 12, 2025, 05:18:34 PMMore Mignone means more marvelous music. It should be released on August or September.
(https://i.imgur.com/ElmGTNH.png)
Very Intersting. The
Fantasia Brasileira IV was premiered as a ballet (choreographed by
George Balanchine) when
Lincoln Kirstein's Ballet Caravan was touring South America in (IIRC) 1942.
disturbing title
(https://tracksrio.com.br/web/image/product.product/2702/image_1024/Orquestra%20Sinfonica%20do%20Estado%20de%20S%C3%A3o%20Paulo%2C%20Pau%20Brasil%20%26%20M%C3%B4nica%20Salmaso%20-%20Concerto%20Antropof%C3%A1gico%20%28CD%20usado%29?unique=b35a86d)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 12, 2025, 05:18:34 PMMore Mignone means more marvelous music. It should be released on August or September.
(https://i.imgur.com/ElmGTNH.png)
Release date: 12 September.
The YT channel of the Academia Brasileira de Musica has plenty more to offer.
I thought very highly of this work by Gabriela Ortiz. Vibrant, exotic, energetic music.
(https://beverlypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/A-arts-LAPhilGrammys.png)
Quote from: relm1 on July 22, 2025, 05:46:07 AMI thought very highly of this work by Gabriela Ortiz. Vibrant, exotic, energetic music.
(https://beverlypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/A-arts-LAPhilGrammys.png)
https://gabrielaortiz.com/
the cover looks like it's from the 70s IMHO
Quote from: relm1 on July 22, 2025, 05:46:07 AMI thought very highly of this work by Gabriela Ortiz. Vibrant, exotic, energetic music.
(https://beverlypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/A-arts-LAPhilGrammys.png)
I will listen quickly. I got to see a live performance of a short work of hers, Antrópolis, featuring a very prominent timpani part that borders on soloist. It was thrilling and a ton of fun. The timpanist "powered" the orchestra by dictating the rhythms throughout. The conductor, Marin Alsop, learned it for the concert and loved it so much she has added it to her traveling repertoire.
(https://beverlypress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/A-arts-LAPhilGrammys.png)
Quote from: Roy Bland on July 22, 2025, 08:38:48 AMthe cover looks like it's from the 70s IMHO
Very much so!
(https://i.discogs.com/ieNTYrPsb74HO8PWFuZGAsyPvXLUVAJHl8qL2FE7BuY/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTc3ODE1/Mi0xMzMxNDAwMTc2/LmpwZWc.jpeg)
;D