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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM

Title: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
What do you have that I might want to add to mine:

What I have on the shelf:

Furtwängler/BPO (Nov. 1943): Talk about breakneck speed in parts....hard driving as his '42 9th at times.

HvK/BPO (1963*): Looks like, sounds like, walks like HvK....strings are chalked full of "flavor" and has unexpected zip for HvK at times.  Not recommended for those living near a fault line.

Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (1983): The "winds" truly stand out in this recording.  Full bodied, crystal clear, speedy in parts, and just a lot of fun.  Probably my favorite.

HvK/BPO (1983) Holds up so-so with the '63 recording, though the sound is a bit muffled and at moments it gets one's attention for all the wrong reasons.

Hogwood/AAM (1989) My only HIP...lighter weight, butless than I thought before a decent listen.  However, the brass can be a  bit "brazen" at times for my taste.

Bernstein/BSO (1992): Struggles compared to the HvK/BPO '63 and Ashkenazy/Philharmonia recordings, but it was Lenny's final concert and that keeps it on my radar of enjoyment.

Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Larry Rinkel on October 09, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
What do you have that I might want to add to mine:

What I have on the shelf:

Furtwängler/BPO (Nov. 1943): Talk about breakneck speed in parts....hard driving as his '42 9th at times.

HvK/BPO (1963*): Looks like, sounds like, walks like HvK....strings are chalked full of "flavor" and has unexpected zip for HvK at times.  Not recommended for those living near a fault line.

Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (1983): The "winds" truly stand out in this recording.  Full bodied, crystal clear, speedy in parts, and just a lot of fun.  Probably my favorite.

HvK/BPO (1983) Holds up so-so with the '63 recording, though the sound is a bit muffled and at moments it gets one's attention for all the wrong reasons.

Hogwood/AAM (1989) My only HIP...lighter weight, butless than I thought before a decent listen.  However, the brass can be a  bit "brazen" at times for my taste.

Bernstein/BSO (1992): Struggles compared to the HvK/BPO '63 and Ashkenazy/Philharmonia recordings, but it was Lenny's final concert and that keeps it on my radar of enjoyment.



If you really need another, Toscanini 1936 or 37 with the NY Phil is a classic.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on October 09, 2007, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
What do you have that I might want to add to mine:

What I have on the shelf:

Furtwängler/BPO (Nov. 1943): Talk about breakneck speed in parts....hard driving as his '42 9th at times.

HvK/BPO (1963*): Looks like, sounds like, walks like HvK....strings are chalked full of "flavor" and has unexpected zip for HvK at times.  Not recommended for those living near a fault line.

Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (1983): The "winds" truly stand out in this recording.  Full bodied, crystal clear, speedy in parts, and just a lot of fun.  Probably my favorite.

HvK/BPO (1983) Holds up so-so with the '63 recording, though the sound is a bit muffled and at moments it gets one's attention for all the wrong reasons.

Hogwood/AAM (1989) My only HIP...lighter weight, butless than I thought before a decent listen.  However, the brass can be a  bit "brazen" at times for my taste.

Bernstein/BSO (1992): Struggles compared to the HvK/BPO '63 and Ashkenazy/Philharmonia recordings, but it was Lenny's final concert and that keeps it on my radar of enjoyment.



An electic selection. I would add Carlos Kleiber's classic account on DG now coupled with an even greater 5th, Blomstedt's account with the SD on Brilliant Classics.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:37:08 PM
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 09, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
If you really need another, Toscanini 1936 or 37 with the NY Phil is a classic.

You are correct.  I do not really need another, but when I am in my used haunts and see a recording that someone like yourself suggests Larry, then I usually buy it.  This is just one of those pieces that I have fun listening to a lot different interpretations.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:41:52 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on October 09, 2007, 05:32:49 PM
An electic selection. I would add Carlos Kleiber's classic account on DG now coupled with an even greater 5th....

And for $9.99 new at Arkive it may be worth a "new" purchase.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Drasko on October 09, 2007, 05:42:26 PM
Pierre Monteux / London Symphony Orchestra  (Decca)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: dtwilbanks on October 09, 2007, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:41:52 PM
And for $9.99 new at Arkive it may be worth a "new" purchase.

Definitely.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 06:43:56 PM
Quote from: Drasko on October 09, 2007, 05:42:26 PM
Pierre Monteux / London Symphony Orchestra  (Decca)

This one is on a nice low priced two-fer as well.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: BorisG on October 09, 2007, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
What do you have that I might want to add to mine?


Szell.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 06:48:42 PM
Quote from: BorisG on October 09, 2007, 06:46:17 PM
Szell.

Seconded. In fact, I recommend the whole set.  :)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 06:49:36 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:37:08 PM

 This is just one of those pieces that I have fun listening to a lot different interpretations.

If you enjoy listening to different interpretations, then why not give Mikhail Pletnev a chance? It's different, believe me! The beginning reminds me a lot of the Carlos Kleiber performance, but then things get interesting!  ;D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 06:49:36 PM
If you enjoy listening to different interpretations, then why not give Mikhail Pletnev a chance? It's different, believe me! The beginning reminds me a lot of the Carlos Kleiber performance, but then things get interesting!  ;D

You should get a job as Pletnev's press agent.  ;D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 06:51:39 PM
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 09, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
If you really need another, Toscanini 1936 or 37 with the NY Phil is a classic.

Seconded, heartily and exuberantly!

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CSQ77SXQL._SS500_.jpg)


For me, this Beethoven 7th is to Beethoven's 7th what Furtwängler's Lucerne 9th is to Beethoven's 9th. A legendary recording, if ever there was one, and an account of the 7th enough to "cover me", and make any other 7th I've heard "supplemental". Is that enough, or shall I continue praising this recording, until you buy it? ;D

Truth be told, this is an amazing recording of both symphonies, but I truly hold this 7th to be outstanding; superb; fantastic; magnificent; awesome; non-pareil! Just make sure you can tolerate the sound.


As an aside, the Carlos Kleiber 7th is also one I value greatly, in purely aesthetic terms, unlike his 5th (which I do like, but do not "value greatly"). Yet it doesn't even begin to approach the above Toscanini, in my view.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 06:54:06 PM
Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 06:51:26 PM
You should get a job as Pletnev's press agent.  ;D

You gonna give him my address with your letter of recommendation?  :-*
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 06:54:06 PM
You gonna give him my address with your letter of recommendation?  :-*

But of course. I'll cut and paste your posts on his behalf. After reading those, he'd be a fool not to hire you. :)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 09, 2007, 06:58:58 PM
Kletzki...again...




Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 09, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
If you really need another, Toscanini 1936 or 37 with the NY Phil is a classic.
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 06:51:39 PM
Seconded, heartily and exuberantly!

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CSQ77SXQL._SS500_.jpg)


For me, this Beethoven 7th is to Beethoven's 7th what Furtwängler's Lucerne 9th is to Beethoven's 9th. A legendary recording, if ever there was one, and an account of the 7th enough to "cover me", and make any other 7th I've heard "supplemental". Is that enough, or shall I continue praising this recording, until you buy it? ;D

Truth be told, this is an amazing recording of both symphonies, but I truly hold this 7th to be outstanding; superb; fantastic; magnificent; awesome; non-pareil! Just make sure you can tolerate the sound.


As an aside, the Carlos Kleiber 7th is also one I value greatly, in purely aesthetic terms, unlike his 5th (which I do like, but do not "value greatly"). Yet it doesn't even begin to approach the above Toscanini, in my view.

Is the Naxos the best transfer in your opinion?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 06:51:39 PM
Seconded, heartily and exuberantly!

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CSQ77SXQL._SS500_.jpg)
As an aside, the Carlos Kleiber 7th is also one I value greatly, in purely aesthetic terms, unlike his 5th (which I do like, but do not "value greatly"). Yet it doesn't even begin to approach the above Toscanini, in my view.

A little hard to find, but MDT has it.

Bill, check PM?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:00:40 PM
Is the Naxos the best transfer in your opinion?

It was transferred by one of, if not THE best in the business, Mark Obert Thorn, so no need to hesitate there.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: springrite on October 09, 2007, 07:03:49 PM
Quote from: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 06:49:36 PM
If you enjoy listening to different interpretations, then why not give Mikhail Pletnev a chance? It's different, believe me! The beginning reminds me a lot of the Carlos Kleiber performance, but then things get interesting!  ;D

You mean, by contrast, with Kleiber it did not get interesting?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:05:34 PM
Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 07:02:11 PM
It was transferred by one of, if not THE best in the business, Mark Obert Thorn, so no need to hesitate there.

Thanks George.  I almost switched on the (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=9085;type=avatar) Alert Signal.  Phew,.......that was a close one.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 07:05:53 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:05:34 PM
Thanks George.  I almost switched on the (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=9085;type=avatar) Alert Signal.  Phew,.......that was a close one.

LOL!!!

;D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: donwyn on October 09, 2007, 06:58:58 PM
Kletzki...again...


A partial review Don:

As Paul Kletzki's 1960s Beethoven cycle reaches its end, we are reminded of a time when recording projects such as this were rare and special occasions, when musicians and the public alike approached Beethoven symphonies with a near reverence that seems a little old-fashioned in our post-millenium era. Perhaps it is, but there is a special exalted sense in these recordings that is rarely found today.  Foremost, it is clear that Kletzki has an unwavering love for these scores, evident in his continued effort to have us hear everything in them. There's a lot more going on in this music than is usually revealed. The string runs after each statement of the main theme in Symphony No. 7's finale are just one example.

Wow, awesome list folks.  Thanks for the effort.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: cx on October 09, 2007, 07:16:55 PM
I also really enjoy the Kleiber account.

This set is under $30 at Amazon, and the seventh is great (as are the rest):

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BL%2BjfOOyL._AA240_.jpg)

--CS
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 09, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
If you really need another, Toscanini 1936 or 37 with the NY Phil is a classic.

Any thoughts on how this one differs from his '51 performance with the NBC Orchestra? 
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:22:13 PM
Karajan 60's is the best 7th I've heard. The 1966 one, I mean.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:25:12 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:22:13 PM
Karajan 60's is the best 7th I've heard. The 1966 one, I mean.

66?  Can you post a pic of this?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:25:12 PM
66?  Can you post a pic of this?  Thanks.

I doubt it's commercially available. YouTube it, just type ''Karajan Beethoven" and you will find it under his 5th and 9th. It's weird how the orchestra sits on stairs above the podium (ground level), though. Must be some magic tricks of the conductor.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:29:58 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:28:29 PM
I doubt it's commercially available. YouTube it, just type ''Karajan Beethoven" and you will find it under his 5th and 9th. It's weird how the orchestra sits on stairs above the podium (ground level), though. Must be some magic tricks of the conductor.

I have never heard of a '66, so that is why I asked.  Do you have it on cd?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:31:35 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:29:58 PM
I have never heard of a '66, so that is why I asked.  Do you have it on cd?

No, as I said it's not commercially available, or at least known by the public. Just listen to it on YouTube, even though the quality is inferior, the Karajan magic still shines in every second in that recording. Just listen to the open chords...wow...
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 07:18:29 PM
Any thoughts on how this one differs from his '51 performance with the NBC Orchestra? 

Well, after having listened to the above New York 7th, I've become a bit of a Toscanini-Beethoven-obsessive... Especially concerning 7ths! :o

So with that having been said, I find the '51 7th good, but of a rather different "breed" than the '36 one. Most poignantly, the Allegretto in this performance is an Allegretto, exactly as you'd expect; while in the '36 recording, it's a mystical experience of a second movement! Or (more objectively), I'd say the '51 7th is more "matter-of-fact", but with more "bite" than the '36.

That, however, does not stop it from obliterating outright most notable competition in my head, apart from the very best among the non-Toscanini 7ths. And of course, there's also the 1939 account, which is a whole different can of worms: suffice to say, I find it a slightly bizarre recording, but I've acquired it only very recently, so perhaps in time, it will reveal its secrets... 8)


Bogey, the 7th Bonehelm is referring to is likely the video recording issued recently in a DVD box set; or at least that's where the "stairs above the podium" comment immediately took me, even though I didn't check in YouTube to confirm. Incidentally, both Karajan's 60's and 80's recorded 7ths are worth a listen, in my opinion. :)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
Well, after having listened to the above New York 7th, I've become a bit of a Toscanini-Beethoven-obsessive... Especially concerning 7ths! :o

So with that having been said, I find the '51 7th good, but of a rather different "breed" than the '36 one. Most poignantly, the Allegretto in this performance is an Allegretto, exactly as you'd expect; while in the '36 recording, it's a mystical experience of a second movement! Or (more objectively), I'd say the '51 7th is more "matter-of-fact", but with more "bite" than the '36.

That, however, does not stop it from obliterating outright most notable competition in my head, apart from the very best among the non-Toscanini 7ths. And of course, there's also the 1939 account, which is a whole different can of worms: suffice to say, I find it a slightly bizarre recording, but I've acquired it only very recently, so perhaps in time, it will reveal its secrets... 8)


Bogey, the 7th Bonehelm is referring to is likely the video recording issued recently in a DVD box set; or at least that's where the "stairs above the podium" comment immediately took me, even though I didn't check in YouTube to confirm. Incidentally, both Karajan's 60's and 80's recorded 7ths are worth a listen, in my opinion. :)

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing things up, Ren. So it IS commercially available.  Guess it's time to save up money again.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 09, 2007, 07:33:50 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:13:06 PM
A partial review Don:

As Paul Kletzki's 1960s Beethoven cycle reaches its end, we are reminded of a time when recording projects such as this were rare and special occasions, when musicians and the public alike approached Beethoven symphonies with a near reverence that seems a little old-fashioned in our post-millenium era. Perhaps it is, but there is a special exalted sense in these recordings that is rarely found today.  Foremost, it is clear that Kletzki has an unwavering love for these scores, evident in his continued effort to have us hear everything in them. There's a lot more going on in this music than is usually revealed. The string runs after each statement of the main theme in Symphony No. 7's finale are just one example.

Wow, awesome list folks.  Thanks for the effort.

Bill...

I'm getting chills!!! I'm listening to Kletzki's 7th right now and independent of outside influences I had been reveling in what the reviewer describes as "exalted" and "a lot more going on in this music than is usually revealed."

Amidst all this I had been taken aback by the extreme dynamics and detail of the music and was left gaping at the marvels it portrayed and then your words popped up - and as I read them I felt a chill!!

They really hit home!!!


Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
Well, after having listened to the above New York 7th, I've become a bit of a Toscanini-Beethoven-obsessive... Especially concerning 7ths! :o

So with that having been said, I find the '51 7th good, but of a rather different "breed" than the '36 one. Most poignantly, the Allegretto in this performance is an Allegretto, exactly as you'd expect; while in the '36 recording, it's a mystical experience of a second movement! Or (more objectively), I'd say the '51 7th is more "matter-of-fact", but with more "bite" than the '36.


So what transfer of the '36 do you have?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 07:54:57 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
So with that having been said, I find the '51 7th good, but of a rather different "breed" than the '36 one. Most poignantly, the Allegretto in this performance is an Allegretto, exactly as you'd expect; while in the '36 recording, it's a mystical experience of a second movement! Or (more objectively), I'd say the '51 7th is more "matter-of-fact", but with more "bite" than the '36.

That, however, does not stop it from obliterating outright most notable competition in my head, apart from the very best among the non-Toscanini 7ths. And of course, there's also the 1939 account, which is a whole different can of worms: suffice to say, I find it a slightly bizarre recording, but I've acquired it only very recently, so perhaps in time, it will reveal its secrets... 8)

Thanks for your impressions.

So I guess the question I should have asked is "if I have the '51 7th and the 5th from the same set, is the '36 7th and the 5th on the Naxos CD substantially better (or at least different) in your opinion?"
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: uffeviking on October 09, 2007, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: springrite on October 09, 2007, 07:03:49 PM
You mean, by contrast, with Kleiber it did not get interesting?

No, No, Paul, you misunderstood or I was not clear enough. The beginning of the Pletnev version is practically the same as Kleiber's, only after the 1st movement Pletnev goes off lightly on his own and by the time the last movement has arrived, it's all Pletnev. Better?  ???
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 09, 2007, 08:10:36 PM
Bill,

Here are a couple more reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-7-9-Beethoven/dp/B00004TQY1/ref=sr_1_2/104-7885147-9797550?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191988894&sr=1-2) of Kletzki's Beethoven.

Right on the money, I'd say!



Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 09, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
Some audio samples might help. (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/2554675?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)




Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 08:18:54 PM
Quote from: donwyn on October 09, 2007, 08:10:36 PM
Bill,

Here are a couple more reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-7-9-Beethoven/dp/B00004TQY1/ref=sr_1_2/104-7885147-9797550?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191988894&sr=1-2) of Kletzki's Beethoven.

Right on the money, I'd say!

Speaking of money, wow, what a bargain price!  :o
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 08:24:38 PM
Quote from: donwyn on October 09, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
Some audio samples might help. (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/2554675?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)






Sounds like one is there....and these are just samples coming through my cruddy computer speakers.  Very nice.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 08:29:48 PM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:34:43 PM
So what transfer of the '36 do you have?

The one I linked above: Mark Obert-Thorn's. My transfer of the '51 is RCA's, and my transfer of the '39 is the recent Music & Arts one. :)


Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 07:54:57 PM
Thanks for your impressions.

So I guess the question I should have asked is "if I have the '51 7th and the 5th from the same set, is the '36 7th and the 5th on the Naxos CD substantially better (or at least different) in your opinion?"

Confirming my answer to the specific question, the '36 NYPO 7th is indeed quite distinct from the '51 NBC one, and better in every department but that of recorded sound. Despite that, however, it "delivers" much more than the '51 could.

Also, the transfer I have of the '36 (see above) is one of the best I've heard, from that period; and if there is one case of a performance transcending the audio quality, this is pretty much it. ;)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on October 09, 2007, 08:32:40 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 08:29:48 PM
The one I linked above: Mark Obert-Thorn's. My transfer of the '51 is RCA's, and my transfer of the '39 is the recent Music & Arts one. :)


Confirming my answer to the specific question, the '36 NYPO 7th is indeed quite distinct from the '51 NBC one, and better in every department but that of recorded sound. Despite that, however, it "delivers" much more than the '51 could.

Also, the transfer I have of the '36 (see above) is one of the best I've heard, from that period; and if there is one case of a performance transcending the audio quality, this is pretty much it. ;)

Thanks.

Just ordered it.  8)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 08:37:52 PM
Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 08:32:40 PM
Thanks.

Just ordered it.  8)

I would say I'm honoured for the trust, but I do think The Maestro (you know, Arturo) was actually its prime recipient: and deservingly so! 8)


You won't regret it, I think.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 09, 2007, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: George on October 09, 2007, 08:18:54 PM
Speaking of money, wow, what a bargain price!  :o

Yes, and that, too! ;D




Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Que on October 09, 2007, 09:35:34 PM
Quote from: donwyn on October 09, 2007, 06:58:58 PM
Kletzki...again...


ehh..ehh....seconded!  ;D
And Furtwängler's '53 recording with the Berliner is pretty good as well.
Third would be Jochum/RCO.

Quote from: donwyn on October 09, 2007, 08:10:36 PM
Bill,

Here are a couple more reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-7-9-Beethoven/dp/B00004TQY1/ref=sr_1_2/104-7885147-9797550?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191988894&sr=1-2) of Kletzki's Beethoven.

Right on the money, I'd say!

Way to go donwyn!  :) Get the Kletzki going around here!

Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 07:05:34 PM
Thanks George.  I almost switched on the (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=9085;type=avatar) Alert Signal.  Phew,.......that was a close one.

;D  ;D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 09, 2007, 10:16:59 PM
Quote from: Que on October 09, 2007, 09:35:34 PM

ehh..ehh....seconded!  ;D
And Furtwängler's '53 recording with the Berliner is pretty good as well.
Third would be Jochum/RCO.

Way to go donwyn!  :) Get the Kletzki going around here!

Alas, the Kletzki cycle I ordered has yet to ship! And I feel like I'm missing on the fun every minute until it does. :o
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Holden on October 10, 2007, 12:29:21 AM
Two posters have mentioned the Monteux/LSO recording and to me, while not quite definitive, this is the best recording of the 7th on record from those that I've heard (and thats' quite a lot). Every LvB 7th I've ever heard (with one exception) has always had one movement that was not as good as the other three and this includes the famous Kleiber. The beauty of the Monteux is that, while none of the movements rate individually as the 'best' IMO, as a set they are all very close. This is why I rate it so highly.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: val on October 10, 2007, 12:38:10 AM
My favorite versions of the 7th Symphony (to me, the best of Beethoven's Symphonies):

Monteux, LSO.

Erich Kleiber, Concertgebow.

Carlos Kleiber, VPO.

Fritz Reiner, Chicago.

Fricsay, BPO.

Furtwängler, BPO (1943).

Karajan, BPO, 1962.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Mozart on October 10, 2007, 01:07:37 AM
Better than Karajan or Szell is:

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7fcBidUL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: hornteacher on October 10, 2007, 03:17:47 AM
Get the Abbado DVD!  Holy smoke its good!
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: hornteacher on October 10, 2007, 03:23:18 AM
Quote from: HandelHooligan on October 10, 2007, 01:07:37 AM
Better than Karajan or Szell is:

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7fcBidUL._SS500_.jpg)

Second this set!

Also the Mackerras CD set is fantastic for the entire cycle!

http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Symphonies-Bryn-Terfel/dp/B00006J3LK/ref=pd_bbs_4/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1192015363&sr=8-4
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Mozart on October 10, 2007, 03:29:33 AM
Quote from: hornteacher on October 10, 2007, 03:17:47 AM
Get the Abbado DVD!  Holy smoke its good!

Have this one too, I love the enormous bassoon!
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: karlhenning on October 10, 2007, 04:50:10 AM
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 09, 2007, 07:33:08 PM
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing things up, Ren. So it IS commercially available.

Well, just connect the dots. Von Karajan? Out of print? Never bloody happen.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: karlhenning on October 10, 2007, 04:50:46 AM
Quote from: hornteacher on October 10, 2007, 03:17:47 AM
Get the Abbado DVD!  Holy smoke its good!

Note taken, thanks.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on October 10, 2007, 04:22:45 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on October 10, 2007, 04:50:10 AM
Well, just connect the dots. Von Karajan? Out of print? Never bloody happen.

Actually, that's not always the case. :o

If it were, I wouldn't be beside myself with "HvK-fan" elation, after learning about this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3688.0.html). ;D

But do carry on. Just a short bout of pedantry, from my side...
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: BorisG on October 10, 2007, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: HandelHooligan on October 10, 2007, 01:07:37 AM
Better than Karajan or Szell is:WAND?


His Beethoven does not sound like Beethoven to me. He meddles when it is not needed.Yes to Bruckner and Schubert for him, but I do not think he is in the same Beethoven league with many of those mentioned, including Szell and Karajan.  :-*
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 10, 2007, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Que on October 09, 2007, 09:35:34 PM
Way to go donwyn!  :) Get the Kletzki going around here!

;D  ;D

;D

Converts...I'm lining up the converts!! ;D



Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: rubio on October 10, 2007, 09:46:19 PM
Quote from: Que on October 09, 2007, 09:35:34 PM
Way to go donwyn!  :) Get the Kletzki going around here!

I would like to sample the Kletzki cycle. Which disc should I start with as a taster? My favourite Beethoven symphonies (in given order) are 7, 3 and 4. Where is he most successful?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: MishaK on October 11, 2007, 11:16:34 AM
A few outstanding 7ths I didn't see mentioned here:

Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin

Haitink/LSO

Haitink/Concertgebouw

The two Haitinks are interpretively very similar. The LSO version should be easier to find. In a similar vein to Carlos Kleiber but, I find, more convincing and better played.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: hautbois on October 12, 2007, 04:56:01 AM
I am surprised no one mentioned Harnoncourt/Chamber Orchestra of Europe! Double the Haitink/Concertgebouw.

Howard
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Rod Corkin on October 15, 2007, 02:39:32 AM
Quote from: hautbois on October 12, 2007, 04:56:01 AM
I am surprised no one mentioned Harnoncourt/Chamber Orchestra of Europe! Double the Haitink/Concertgebouw.

Howard

My favourite 7th by a long way is by the Hanover Band, on Nimbus Records.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Mark on October 15, 2007, 02:51:37 AM
Quote from: Rod Corkin on October 15, 2007, 02:39:32 AM
My favourite 7th by a long way is by the Hanover Band, on Nimbus Records.

Did that ensemble ever record a cycle, Rod?
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: FideLeo on October 15, 2007, 03:02:46 AM
Quote from: Mark on October 15, 2007, 02:51:37 AM
Did that ensemble ever record a cycle, Rod?

I'm not Rod, but I know that yes they did. 

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6771/51n7h5jj7zlss500bo6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

And

(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6370/61zk5yawh9lss500gifot9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Mark on October 15, 2007, 03:04:33 AM
Quote from: masolino on October 15, 2007, 03:02:46 AM
I'm not Rod, but I know that yes they did. 

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6771/51n7h5jj7zlss500bo6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Excellent! Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: RWetmore on January 19, 2008, 05:29:13 PM
I've never really found a completely satisfying recording of this piece.  I'll have to Monteux a try.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on January 19, 2008, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: RWetmore on January 19, 2008, 05:29:13 PM
I've never really found a completely satisfying recording of this piece.  I'll have to Monteux a try.
What do you find unsatisfactory about the 2 million existing recordings of this piece. This is one of those rare pieces that I am happy with almost every recording I have.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 19, 2008, 06:07:44 PM
Quote from: RWetmore on January 19, 2008, 05:29:13 PM
I've never really found a completely satisfying recording of this piece. 

Don't mind me...just passing through...


(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/1907_coverpic.jpg)


(Paul Kletzki / Czech Philharmonic Orchestra)




Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Bogey on January 19, 2008, 06:14:07 PM
Quote from: donwyn on January 19, 2008, 06:07:44 PM
Don't mind me...just passing through...


(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/1907_coverpic.jpg)


(Paul Kletzki / Czech Philharmonic Orchestra)






:D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 19, 2008, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Bogey on January 19, 2008, 06:14:07 PM
:D

;D

How soon before I'm condemned as a Kletzki spammer...



Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: PSmith08 on January 19, 2008, 07:36:37 PM
Quote from: RWetmore on January 19, 2008, 05:29:13 PM
I've never really found a completely satisfying recording of this piece.  I'll have to Monteux a try.

Give Furtwängler's 1943 recording a spin if you find the time.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on January 19, 2008, 08:29:26 PM
Quote from: donwyn on January 19, 2008, 06:29:00 PM
;D

How soon before I'm condemned as a Kletzki spammer...





A week ago.  ;D
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 19, 2008, 08:44:53 PM
Quote from: George on January 19, 2008, 08:29:26 PM
A week ago.  ;D

ZZZZZZZIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

;D



Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: MISHUGINA on January 20, 2008, 06:23:04 AM
If you think Carlos Kleiber's VPO recording on DG is electric, you should try his live RCO video recording. One of the most truly spontaneous performances ever.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: George on January 20, 2008, 06:37:27 AM
Quote from: donwyn on January 19, 2008, 08:44:53 PM
ZZZZZZZIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

;D


;)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: PSmith08 on January 20, 2008, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: MISHUGINA on January 20, 2008, 06:23:04 AM
If you think Carlos Kleiber's VPO recording on DG is electric, you should try his live RCO video recording. One of the most truly spontaneous performances ever.

His live recording from Munich on Orfeo of the 7th is of a similar cast.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: ChamberNut on January 20, 2008, 09:10:00 AM
Quote from: hautbois on October 12, 2007, 04:56:01 AM
I am surprised no one mentioned Harnoncourt/Chamber Orchestra of Europe!
Howard

Howard, kudos!!  I'm in agreement with you, I love the Harnoncourt/COE Beethoven symphonies.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: FredT on March 24, 2008, 09:50:20 AM
How about Dorati and the LSO on Mercury? Awesome horns!
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 27, 2008, 03:55:41 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on January 20, 2008, 09:10:00 AM
Howard, kudos!!  I'm in agreement with you, I love the Harnoncourt/COE Beethoven symphonies.

I do not (at least not all of them, and most of all not his soft-edged, slow-moving Pastorale), but 7 is quite good, and the slow movement of his 9th is unbeatable.

Of the 4 LvB symphonies Paavo Jarvi has recently recorded, I think his #7 is the most successful. They're all hair-raisingly well-played and beautifully recorded, but his 3, 4, and 8 did not strike me as interpretively compelling. With 7, he's firing on all cylidners, though.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: DarkAngel on February 27, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kGDOtViJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

To continue from Beethoven 4th thread.......why you must own this DVD

If you thought the 1976 Keliber/WP 7th was great on the DG Originals CD, it is even more exciting and dramatic with the 1983 Concertgebouw Orchestra DVD......Kleiber just knocks the door down with this version, check the timings:

CD                DVD

13:36            11:44
8:09              8:05
8:15              7:50
8:36              7:50

No Beethoven collection is complete without this..........
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Holden on February 27, 2010, 10:04:01 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 27, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kGDOtViJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

To continue from Beethoven 4th thread.......why you must own this DVD

If you thought the 1976 Keliber/WP 7th was great on the DG Originals CD, it is even more exciting and dramatic with the 1983 Concertgebouw Orchestra DVD......Kleiber just knocks the door down with this version, check the timings:

CD                DVD

13:36            11:44
8:09              8:05
8:15              7:50
8:36              7:50

No Beethoven collection is complete without this..........

But this is the 7th to have

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/lon433403.jpg)

It is also available here

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21QPBCTZFFL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: samuel on February 28, 2010, 12:59:49 AM
Just gonna voice my agreement with anyone who has already recommended the Monteux/LSO Beethoven 7th, it's one my all-time favorite Beethoven recordings.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Renfield on February 28, 2010, 03:37:30 AM
Regarding Kleiber Jr, I'm pretty sure I have a live 7th of his on Orfeo around, as well (as the DG). Very fine account.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: DarkAngel on February 28, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Renfield on February 28, 2010, 03:37:30 AM
Regarding Kleiber Jr, I'm pretty sure I have a live 7th of his on Orfeo around, as well (as the DG). Very fine account.

Indeed, sold as a SACD hybrid (expensive) the Orfeo 7th and the DVD Concertgebouw 7th both beat out the otherwise great DG Originals WP 7th for me.....
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: DarkAngel on February 28, 2010, 09:13:52 AM
Quote from: Holden on February 27, 2010, 10:04:01 PM
But this is the 7th to have

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/lon433403.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21QPBCTZFFL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)

I do also have it........but I have a small problem with the Monteux/LSO 7th.  ::)

The 3rd movement presto is taken at slower pace than I like at 9:08, then Monteux tears into a an exciting 4th movement to end the work, by contrast Kleiber DVD takes 3rd movement in 7:50 and sounds more like a presto to me, a more natural set-up for 4th movement
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: RJR on December 27, 2010, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: Bogey on January 19, 2008, 06:14:07 PM
:D
Love the Beethoven Album Cover just passing through. I think it would make a great stamp.
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: chung on December 28, 2010, 08:11:27 AM
Quote from: Bogey on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
What do you have that I might want to add to mine:

What I have on the shelf:

Furtwängler/BPO (Nov. 1943): Talk about breakneck speed in parts....hard driving as his '42 9th at times.

HvK/BPO (1963*): Looks like, sounds like, walks like HvK....strings are chalked full of "flavor" and has unexpected zip for HvK at times.  Not recommended for those living near a fault line.

Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (1983): The "winds" truly stand out in this recording.  Full bodied, crystal clear, speedy in parts, and just a lot of fun.  Probably my favorite.

HvK/BPO (1983) Holds up so-so with the '63 recording, though the sound is a bit muffled and at moments it gets one's attention for all the wrong reasons.

Hogwood/AAM (1989) My only HIP...lighter weight, butless than I thought before a decent listen.  However, the brass can be a  bit "brazen" at times for my taste.

Bernstein/BSO (1992): Struggles compared to the HvK/BPO '63 and Ashkenazy/Philharmonia recordings, but it was Lenny's final concert and that keeps it on my radar of enjoyment.

Konwitschny/LGO (1959): A superb and energetic take with repeats, despite Konwitschny's reputation as old-school (vaguely like Klemperer and Furtwängler). His work with the No. 7's finale takes as long as Kleiber's recording with the VPO (8:34 for Konwitschny, 8:36 for Kleiber) but somehow sounds just a bit more frenetic without falling off the rails. Konwitschny's recording is available as far as I know only in various box-sets from Berlin Classics.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TYeLZymRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eZ0-S9t6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51l9W-Zwu8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Beethoven's 7th Symphony
Post by: Verena on December 28, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
QuoteKonwitschny/LGO (1959): A superb and energetic take with repeats, despite Konwitschny's reputation as old-school (vaguely like Klemperer and Furtwängler). His work with the No. 7's finale takes as long as Kleiber's recording with the VPO (8:34 for Konwitschny, 8:36 for Kleiber) but somehow sounds just a bit more frenetic without falling off the rails. Konwitschny's recording is available as far as I know only in various box-sets from Berlin Classics.

There is also a live recording by Konwitschny on Weitblick which some find even better. I have ordered that one from Japan today, coincidentally..