I have been listening to his Symphony 5 & 6, and a disc called 'Leggiero, Pesante' and I am not sure (see the title of this thread). I also have his Requiem for Larissa which is really quite beautiful. So I wonder what you think about this composer who has been given high praise by someone like Arvo Pärt whose reputation is beyond any doubt (I think).
X
I do love the Requiem. It is beautiful like you say - I love the Shevchenko setting, which sounds like it's coming from very far away (and how often do we get to hear a Ukrainian text in classical music?), and the mock Mozart of the movement that follows. He really makes his "nostalgic" technique (constantly evoking older forms of music, often in fragments) work here. And since a requiem is essentially a remembrance, it's totally appropriate.
On the other hand, I hated the 5th Symphony - like being immersed in a lukewarm bath for 40 minutes.
Certainly, given my extreme positive & negative responses, he's a composer that intrigues me.
Quote from: Spitvalve on April 18, 2007, 10:04:59 AM
Certainly, given my extreme positive & negative responses, he's a composer that intrigues me.
Yes we agree then.
Again a composer which is on my path, and I am bound to go hunting for some introduction music, but first Hartmann, Kokkonen, Sallinen, Bergman, Krenek, Melartin, Englund, Lloyd, Wellezs, Langgaard, Olsson, etc etc...........................
I purchased this a couple weeks ago:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5979999&style=classical&BAB=5
I am one happy man!! :)
I'm not surprise to see you showing interest in this composer, Harry. Have you finally got to hear some of his works?
Quote from: Varg on December 02, 2007, 06:57:45 AM
I purchased this a couple weeks ago:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5979999&style=classical&BAB=5
I am one happy man!! :)
I'm not surprise to see you showing interest in this composer, Harry. Have you finally got to hear some of his works?
Not sure I would pay $42 for a single CD of music by any composer... :-\
Quote from: Brian on December 02, 2007, 05:48:34 PM
Not sure I would pay $42 for a single CD of music by any composer... :-\
I am, I wouldn't! This is an import which suggests it could be acquired cheaper abroad!
I heard the 5th the other week and although I had found all of his music beforehand not to my taste this had a mesmerising effect and is, now, on my 'buy list.'
I am, probably, completely wrong.
Quote from: Varg on December 02, 2007, 06:57:45 AM
I purchased this a couple weeks ago:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5979999&style=classical&BAB=5
I am one happy man!! :)
I'm not surprise to see you showing interest in this composer, Harry. Have you finally got to hear some of his works?
Amazon Deutschland offers this disc for under 13 Euros: depending on where you are, that could be cheaper, even with overseas shipping.
http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_pg_2?ie=UTF8&rs=255966&keywords=valentin%20silvestrov&rh=n%3A255882%2Cn%3A255966%2Ck%3Avalentin%20silvestrov&page=2
I've been listening to Silvestrov's Mysteres for alto flute and percussionists over the last couple of days, a 12 minute listenable piece that doesn't add up to that much. Larissa is a minor masterpiece and very touching, and the Fifth symphony I do think deserving of its good reputation- neo-romantic but indicating an original voice, no mean feat today. Metamusik and Postludium both for piano and orchestra are again less distinctive.
Requiem for Larissa is remarkable.
The Silent Songs are the most unusual and impressive things I know of Silvestrov, in their incredibly understated way - understated in every way possible except the overall effect. Rarely has a quiet, restrained voice been so powerfully compelling.
I've been meaning to expand for a long time and still haven't but the single Silvestrov disc that I do have is this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NKZ5Q7XML._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Valentin-Silvestrov-Dedication-Orchestra-Philharmonic/dp/B000000SRY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196713169&sr=8-1)
Valentin Silvestrov: Dedication (Symphony for Violin & Orchestra) / Post Scriptum (Sonata for Violin & Piano) - Gidon Kremer / Munich Philharmonic
It's been a very long time since I listened to it last. But back in those days (must have been 7-8 years ago! :o) it had such a profoundly depressing effect that somehow I never felt compelled to give it another try. I'm afraid it would either turn out to still be depressing or... boring as hell. ;D
Quote from: Brian on December 02, 2007, 05:48:34 PM
Not sure I would pay $42 for a single CD of music by any composer... :-\
I didnt pay that much for the recording; i got it on ebay for 10 bucks. There's no way i'm gonna pay $42 for one single recording!
Death of his wife is a breaking point in Silvestrov's life. Most people here in Russia prefer his early works when Larisa was alive. :-\
I be meaning to get some of this music, but all of the orchestral discs are full price, and I hate that.
Aww shucks I thought there was no Silvestrov thread, and was about to make one called, Silvestrov's Silver trough. Quite glad actually that I didn't need to, would have been embarassingly trite.
Listening to Schoeck's Elegie made me wander next to Silvestrov's Silent Songs... I remember you saying Luke that he used the level of beauty as another expressive parameter in these songs, and I just wondered whether you could expand a bit on this and maybe give some specific examples? Not asking too much I hope... :-X
I'll be playing his Post Scriptum sonata and Pamyati P.I. (i.e. in Memory of Tchaikovsky) next month in the Kiev Composers' Union with a Ukrainian violinist who knows Silvestrov fairly well. I've become rather fond of his music. He is also a charming man - made me some CDs and used a highlighting pen to point out which he thought were the best pieces! Will do a rather post-Mozartian piano trio in November as well, but haven't looked much at that yet. He has been writing a series of old-fashioned Russian romances to classic Russian (mostly early 19th-C poems) with an old friend of his. He impressed upon me the importance he places on silence in his music, and on the written-out minute tempo fluctuations, which appear to be a way of "structuralising" (yes, I know, horrid word) those aspects of performance usually called "expression".
I've never heard a note of this guy, but I keep thinking the slow mvmt to DSCH Sym 5, or Gorecki 3. Will have to YouTube tomorrow.
Quote from: Rabbity Baxter on September 17, 2010, 01:34:55 PM
He is also a charming man - made me some CDs and used a highlighting pen to point out which he thought were the best pieces!
Can you tell us which he thought were the best, Rabbity?
Quote from: snyprrr on September 17, 2010, 08:11:23 PM
I've never heard a note of this guy, but I keep thinking the slow mvmt to DSCH Sym 5, or Gorecki 3. Will have to YouTube tomorrow.
Not really - he's more polystylistic, closer to Schnittke. But he does have his own voice, which is paradoxically constructed out of other composers' voices.
Quote from: Velimir on September 18, 2010, 12:00:24 AM
Not really - he's more polystylistic, closer to Schnittke. But he does have his own voice, which is paradoxically constructed out of other composers' voices.
I checked out some YouTube today:
1) one of the "silent songs". mmm...meh? Not for me. I can hear why, if you like this, you'd like the Schoeck. No cut, jus sayin
2) Dedication and Post-something, with Kremer. Once again, I like Myaskovsky's Cello Concerto better. Thaaat's Nostalghia!
3) Symphony No.4: not at all.
4) SQ No.1: I guess,...patronage was not pleased.
5) 5mins. of Requiem for Larissa. I could barely hear it.
Couldn't find the "infamous" Sym. 5, haha ::), but, unless it's absolutely perfect, then I don't think his idea of a "post-scriptum" to orchestral history, and mine, sound the same. I do like this concept though, of an immense post-scriptum. But, for me, just dragging out that intro to Myaskovsky's Cello Concerto would do the trick for me.
Am I wrong to think that he sounds like Vasks, or am I just confusing the two? Does Vasks have any of "that" sound? I didn't really like the Wergo disc (forget what's on it).
Quote from: snyprrr on September 18, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
Am I wrong to think that he sounds like Vasks, or am I just confusing the two? Does Vasks have any of "that" sound? I didn't really like the Wergo disc (forget what's on it).
Vasks' music lacks the Webernian intervals of Silvestrov's curious melodies, and also Vasks loves to layer Shostakovich-inspired conflict that a friend of mine calls "battle music" and says always sounds like Tsarist troops riding down downtrodden protestors.
ok, i waaas confusing Vasks and Silvestrov. Vasks is the one who does the battle music. done.
I've known, and listened to, Silvestrov for about a year or so, but I've only recently decided to take the plunge on a few of his recordings. One thing I noticed immediately was how slow his music was but within this music was a sparity and a beautiful ear for harmonic color. The work in question was his Symphony No. 5. I heard this work via YouTube, but I can only imagine how good the recording will sound. I like that slow moving, zen-like quality of his music. Reminds me of why I love Arvo Part's music so much. Of course, I realize Silvestrov occupies a very different area than Part.
I've just received the Requiem CD, and have listened to the first few movements. I'm not greatly impressed, finding little that's striking or enjoyable in the music, but the recording and performance surely don't help. The soundstage is quite unnatural, the singing and playing are uniformly second-rate, and the interpretation lacks all tension and momentum, elements I think this work needs to be convincing. Hopefully there will be a better recording soon, but that may depend on the fortunes of Silvestrov's reputation.
Quote from: eyeresist on March 14, 2012, 07:21:56 PM
I've just received the Requiem CD, and have listened to the first few movements. I'm not greatly impressed, finding little that's striking or enjoyable in the music, but the recording and performance surely don't help. The soundstage is quite unnatural, the singing and playing are uniformly second-rate, and the interpretation lacks all tension and momentum, elements I think this work needs to be convincing. Hopefully there will be a better recording soon, but that may depend on the fortunes of Silvestrov's reputation.
That's what I was afraid of. I need to get rid of my Silvestrov CDs ASAP.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 14, 2012, 07:31:49 PM
That's what I was afraid of. I need to get rid of my Silvestrov CDs ASAP.
ok, now I'm never going to get one. Sorry Val! :'(
Valentyn Sylvestrov was a new name to me until I happened upon his music this morning. This collection of his orchestral music would seem to be a good place to begin an investigation into his
oeuvre.
[asin]B00007GXWQ[/asin]
Wikipedia has this to say about him (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentyn_Sylvestrov)
QuoteSylvestrov is perhaps best known for his post-modern musical style; some, if not most, of his works could be considered neoclassical and post-modernist. Using traditional tonal and modal techniques, Sylvestrov creates a unique and delicate tapestry of dramatic and emotional textures, qualities which he suggests are otherwise sacrificed in much of contemporary music. "I do not write new music. My music is a response to and an echo of what already exists," Sylvestrov has said.[1]
In 1974, under pressure to conform to both official precepts of socialist realism and fashionable modernism, Sylvestrov chose to withdraw from the spotlight. In this period he began to reject his previously modernist style. Instead, he composed Quiet Songs (Тихі Пісні (1977)) a cycle intended to be played in private.
Sylvestrov's Symphony No. 5 (1980–1982), considered by some[who?] to be his masterpiece, may be viewed as an epilogue or coda inspired by the music of late Romantic composers such as Gustav Mahler. "With our advanced artistic awareness, fewer and fewer texts are possible which, figuratively speaking, begin 'at the beginning'... What this means is not the end of music as art, but the end of music, an end in which it can linger for a long time. It is very much in the area of the coda that immense life is possible."
Sylvestrov's recent cycle for violin and piano, Melodies of Instances (Мелодії Миттєвостей), a set of seven works comprising 22 movements to be played in sequence (and lasting about 70 minutes), is intimate and elusive - the composer describes it as "melodies [...]on the boundary between their appearance and disappearance"
It's curious that it has been a decade now since Silvestrov wrote his Symphony No. 7, and there is still no commercial recording (though ECM has recorded much of his music in the meantime). Did it attract the same mixed reactions as his Sixth?
Carol Alt is still hot! Just flipping by FoxNews... what,.. did you ask..?...
Quote from: snyprrr on September 18, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
I checked out some YouTube today:
1) one of the "silent songs". mmm...meh? Not for me. I can hear why, if you like this, you'd like the Schoeck. No cut, jus sayin
2) Dedication and Post-something, with Kremer. Once again, I like Myaskovsky's Cello Concerto better. Thaaat's Nostalghia!
3) Symphony No.4: not at all.
4) SQ No.1: I guess,...patronage was not pleased.
5) 5mins. of Requiem for Larissa. I could barely hear it.
Couldn't find the "infamous" Sym. 5, haha ::), but, unless it's absolutely perfect, then I don't think his idea of a "post-scriptum" to orchestral history, and mine, sound the same. I do like this concept though, of an immense post-scriptum. But, for me, just dragging out that intro to Myaskovsky's Cello Concerto would do the trick for me.
Am I wrong to think that he sounds like Vasks, or am I just confusing the two? Does Vasks have any of "that" sound? I didn't really like the Wergo disc (forget what's on it).
Symphony No.2After Sumera and Tuur I ran into Silvestrov, and, again, was thoroughly unimpressed with everything on YT except this awesomely anachronistic 2nd Symphony, which must be from his earlier days. It just sounds like a classic dodecaphonic(?) work, I don't know,, it sure cast one on me.
Frankly, this let to Part...
While I don't care for any of his piano music at all, the 4th and 5th Symphonies have a strong sense of voice and have impressed me greatly. Ever since I saw the 5th on some publication's list of 20th C. symphonic masterworks I have been listening to his work. I'd never heard of him before that.
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 16, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
While I don't care for any of his piano music at all, the 4th and 5th Symphonies have a strong sense of voice and have impressed me greatly. Ever since I saw the 5th on some publication's list of 20th C. symphonic masterworks I have been listening to his work. I'd never heard of him before that.
His
Symphony No. 5 is an outstanding work. My favorite performance is the Robertson/Berlin RSO on Sony. Grab it if you can find it cheap. It's OOP. Saraste also has a good performance on BIS with the Lahti Symphony Orchestra.
I'm very confused these days, but I think I want to explore this composer...
Quote from: 71 dB on March 17, 2018, 05:26:16 AM
I'm very confused these days, but I think I want to explore this composer...
Why are you confused?
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 16, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
His Symphony No. 5 is an outstanding work. My favorite performance is the Robertson/Berlin RSO on Sony. Grab it if you can find it cheap. It's OOP. Saraste also has a good performance on BIS with the Lahti Symphony Orchestra.
+1
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 17, 2018, 05:27:17 AM
Why are you confused?
Too much confusing stuff in my life recently. Hard to have a feeling of control of anything. A year ago I went through pipe repair and Trump became POTUS. Amazon marketplace changes, multiple directions of music interests... so chaotic.
Quote from: 71 dB on March 17, 2018, 07:09:25 AM
Too much confusing stuff in my life recently. Hard to have a feeling of control of anything. A year ago I went through pipe repair and Trump became POTUS. Amazon marketplace changes, multiple directions of music interests... so chaotic.
Perhaps it might do you so good to take two steps back and reaccess the important things in your life. I always have said that in order to live the life that you want, you have to make some cuts and find ways to eliminate the unnecessary things (i. e. things that make your life difficult or unpleasant).
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 17, 2018, 07:47:55 AM
Perhaps it might do you so good to take two steps back and reaccess the important things in your life. I always have said that in order to live the life that you want, you have to make some cuts and find ways to eliminate the unnecessary things (i. e. things that make your life difficult or unpleasant).
It's not that simple. Trump's presidency makes me feel unpleasant, but what can I do about it as a Finn living in Finland? Bigoted people who hate other people for racistic or other stupid reasons make me feel unpleasant. All the conflicts in the world... ...this planet is such a shithole. I feel Trump's wall behind my back and can't take steps back.
There's too many Silvestrov releases to know what to buy and not enough to have cheap options. I already have the cheap Naxos. The other stuff is not that cheap. Symphony 6? MDG has a nice-looking SACD...
Regarding Silvestrov, I´d go for the Metamusik & Postludium with Lubimov.
It´s £ 6.75 at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1521314892&sr=1-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
and Euros 5.14 at
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1521315036&sr=8-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
Samples at https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/search?search_query=silvestrov+metamusik
It´s quite simple, meditative music, say a bit like Pärt´s Tabula Rasa in that respect, though somewhat darker.
Quote from: Turner on March 17, 2018, 11:29:16 AM
Regarding Silvestrov, I´d go for the Metamusik & Postludium with Lubimov.
It´s £ 6.75 at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1521314892&sr=1-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
and Euros 5.14 at
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1521315036&sr=8-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
Samples at https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/search?search_query=silvestrov+metamusik
It´s quite simple, meditative music, say a bit like Pärt´s Tabula Rasa in that respect, though somewhat darker.
Thanks for the good recommendation! I'm listening to this CD on Spotify and liking what I hear so I just ordered the CD, £8.33 delivered. 8)
Quote from: 71 dB on March 17, 2018, 12:05:35 PM
Thanks for the good recommendation! I'm listening to this CD on Spotify and liking what I hear so I just ordered the CD, £8.33 delivered. 8)
I can tell you it remains one of my favourite discs, after a good deal of years 8)
Quote from: Turner on March 17, 2018, 11:29:16 AM
Regarding Silvestrov, I´d go for the Metamusik & Postludium with Lubimov.
It´s £ 6.75 at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1521314892&sr=1-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
and Euros 5.14 at
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B00008MNCG/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1521315036&sr=8-1&keywords=silvestrov+metamusik
Samples at https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/search?search_query=silvestrov+metamusik
It´s quite simple, meditative music, say a bit like Pärt´s Tabula Rasa in that respect, though somewhat darker.
+ 1. A wonderful disc, the distillation of the composer's art in that period.
If you know symphony no 5, I suggest you go backwards. Try the first ones instead of no 6 (inferior to 5 IMHO). This is more diverse and adventurous. Symphonies 2 and 4 are available, and the cello and the violin symphonies as well:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510A7Yq2q4L.jpg)
Dedication is the symphony for violin and orchestra.
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/615j8vBXssL._SS500.jpg)
Meditation is the cello symphony. This disc includes a work I like a lot, the second symphony.
2020 saw the premiere of a documentary movie about Silvestrov, by Sergei Bukovsky, with a duration of more than 2 hours.
It's nice that it also deals with the earlier avant-garde works, which tell of a different side of the composer.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11854142/
http://www.filmkommentaren.dk/blog/blogpost/4714/
https://www.arvopart.ee/en/arvo-part-center/events/valentin-silvestrov/?fbclid=IwAR2pyWKsXjC11EnoqsBAOfKtfU82ZfgLwAU9qdy5XB3Z8udtQcmt1ezqo9U
Silvestrov, 84, has been rescued from the war & is now in Western Europe
https://slippedisc.com/2022/03/ukraines-top-composer-is-rescued/
:o Wow !
What a terrible thing to have to experience in old age. I had heard a couple of years ago that Silvestrov had already suffered from loss of friendships with some of his musical peers in Russia – even many old Soviet dissidents in Russia accept the narrative on state TV that Ukraine had been taken over by a "Neo-Nazi junta", and they rejected Silvestrov simply for his embrace of Ukrainianness and supporting his country's independent existence.
Quote from: MusicTurner on March 12, 2022, 09:39:29 PM
Silvestrov, 84, has been rescued from the war & is now in Western Europe
https://slippedisc.com/2022/03/ukraines-top-composer-is-rescued/
Great news!
What are everyone's favorite Silvestrov works? So far, I only know his highly regarded 5th Symphony, which is quite a haunting work if a bit too "static" for my taste. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood for it when I listened.
Quote from: kyjo on March 16, 2022, 06:43:51 AM
Great news!
What are everyone's favorite Silvestrov works? So far, I only know his highly regarded 5th Symphony, which is quite a haunting work if a bit too "static" for my taste. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood for it when I listened.
Give a listen to his
Symphony No. 4 for brass and strings. It's outstanding!
https://www.youtube.com/v/XMqXvVasEhs
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 16, 2022, 06:59:11 AM
Give a listen to his Symphony No. 4 for brass and strings. It's outstanding!
https://www.youtube.com/v/XMqXvVasEhs
Oh yeah, I listened to this a few years ago but don't have strong memories of it. Time for a revisit!
Quote from: kyjo on March 16, 2022, 06:43:51 AM
Great news!
What are everyone's favorite Silvestrov works? So far, I only know his highly regarded 5th Symphony, which is quite a haunting work if a bit too "static" for my taste. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood for it when I listened.
Stille Musik, though that will be on the "static" side for you. I also love his
Piano Quintet.
Deutsche Well published a Silvestrov interview about the current Ukraine situation (in German):
https://www.dw.com/de/valentin-silvestrov-was-macht-ihr-kremlteufel/a-61149397?maca=de-Facebook-sharing&fbclid=IwAR2fA4xU-WY9TIDMSooyqIBS_yslcRApaOesuF-iSjZsQ4AytqPvANjRORo
The headline says "What are you Kremlin devils doing". He didn't want to leave Kyiv, but was persuaded to go to Berlin. He is against boycotting all of the Russian culture, but the Putin regime consists of criminals, and Putin should be treated as a terrorist.
Here's a Silvestrov gem from 2001, Hymne -- performed last month and just posted yesterday by the Frankfurt Radio Symphony -- in a luminous reading from conductor Juraj Valčuha. At the end, there's a long moment of silence, which seems all too appropriate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yRpXjsy_MY
--Bruce
Silvestrov is still working; a 40-minute choral work, Psalm, was premiered in Warsaw yesterday. It had been commissioned in 2020, but was delayed because of the pandemic. It consists of variations on a Ukrainian folk song. Silvestrov was expected to be present, having travelled from Berlin.
Quote from: MusicTurner on April 27, 2022, 03:41:42 AM
Silvestrov is still working; a 40-minute choral work, Psalm, was premiered in Warsaw yesterday. It had been commissioned in 2020, but was delayed because of the pandemic. It consists of variations on a Ukrainian folk song. Silvestrov was expected to be present, having travelled from Berlin.
Nice!
New recording of his first string quartet, absolutely gorgeous performance:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51JEsU066AL._SL1200_.jpg)
Quote from: hvbias on June 11, 2022, 02:08:57 PM
New recording of his first string quartet, absolutely gorgeous performance:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51JEsU066AL._SL1200_.jpg)
Slightly off topic... I found the coupling here of Shostakovich 8 and Schnittke 3 almost unbearably sad. I don't often find such things to be so afrecting, but this was profoundly mood altering.
Quote from: foxandpeng on June 11, 2022, 04:18:37 PM
Slightly off topic... I found the coupling here of Shostakovich 8 and Schnittke 3 almost unbearably sad. I don't often find such things to be so afrecting, but this was profoundly mood altering.
The whole album is, but then again I woke up with a pep in my step in the mood to hear The Downward Spiral first thing that morning ;D
Sampling some of this moving new ECM recording titled Maidan, with works Silvestrov wrote after the protests in 2014. Gorgeous performances by the Kyiv Chamber Choir, led by Mykola Hobdych.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQFW5Om3jU
-Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on October 04, 2022, 04:49:27 PM
Sampling some of this moving new ECM recording titled Maidan, with works Silvestrov wrote after the protests in 2014. Gorgeous performances by the Kyiv Chamber Choir, led by Mykola Hobdych.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQFW5Om3jU
-Bruce
Nice!
Just published today, my article on Silvestrov's Maidan, with the Kyiv Chamber Choir, and a fine reminder of the beauty of great choral singing. WRTI is the public radio station affiliated with Temple University, and I'm delighted to be working with Nate Chinen, the noted jazz writer, on articles here and there.
https://www.wrti.org/wrti-spotlight/2022-10-11/album-of-the-week-valentin-silvestrovs-maidan
-Bruce
Nice, again!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 11, 2022, 10:37:18 AM
Nice, again!
Thank you, Karl. The album was a joy to listen to, which made writing about it an almost equal pleasure.
-Bruce
Silvestrov's 5th in particular is quite unlike anything else and to me is, together with Weinberg's rather different yet also "post-romantic" War Trilogy, the greatest symphonic creations to come out of the last decade of the Soviet Union. You have to be in the mood for it -- I wouldn't say it's easy music -- but if you are, it's unforgettably haunting.
The Requiem, although it gets dangerously close to sentimentality at times, is another of his most moving works.
Of Silvestrov's music, I return most often to Silent Songs. It's hard to say how much they will be appreciated by those who can't understand the words.
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/24/14/0060249821424_600.jpg)
Quote from: lunar22 on July 03, 2023, 02:38:48 AMSilvestrov's 5th in particular is quite unlike anything else and to me is, together with Weinberg's rather different yet also "post-romantic" War Trilogy, the greatest symphonic creations to come out of the last decade of the Soviet Union. You have to be in the mood for it -- I wouldn't say it's easy music -- but if you are, it's unforgettably haunting.
The Requiem, although it gets dangerously close to sentimentality at times, is another of his most moving works.
I very much enjoy the Jukka Pekka Saraste/Lahti SO version of #5 on BIS. It's a great symphony.
I have been listening a great deal this week to Silvestrov's symphonies streaming on Spotify. I have a real appreciation for his style, and find him pretty captivating at the moment.
I'm yet to hear symphonies 1, 3, 8, or 9, but have located them on YouTube with the exception of 9. I look forward to exploring them also, but preference order for those I have heard so far?
6, 5, 7, 4, 2
(https://i.discogs.com/qGYIr00-03sJzBtVe3GQViEPpAWARc8f8LGHlLZiAWA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTY1NDY3/NzgtMTY3NjU0ODUy/NC03NDM3LmpwZWc.jpeg)
I'm getting the following feeling about the difference between Sylvestrov and Schnittke - I'll post it here to be refuted. With Schnittke I feel as though I'm confronted with a bold, restless, experimenting intellect (same feeling as I have with Stockhausen and Rihm.) With Sylvestrov, I feel as though I'm confronted with a composer who found a shtick and milked it. He wouldn't be the only one, it's not necessarily a fault, the same could be said of many successful musicians (e.g. Philip Glass, Salvatore Sciarrino, Morton Feldman.) Listening here to Sylvestrov's second string quartet played by the Lysenkos.
An extensive selection of Silvestrov's recordings are available on bandcamp
https://silvestrov.bandcamp.com
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2023, 11:59:31 PM(https://i.discogs.com/qGYIr00-03sJzBtVe3GQViEPpAWARc8f8LGHlLZiAWA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTY1NDY3/NzgtMTY3NjU0ODUy/NC03NDM3LmpwZWc.jpeg)
I'm getting the following feeling about the difference between Sylvestrov and Schnittke - I'll post it here to be refuted. With Schnittke I feel as though I'm confronted with a bold, restless, experimenting intellect (same feeling as I have with Stockhausen and Rihm.) With Sylvestrov, I feel as though I'm confronted with a composer who found a shtick and milked it. He wouldn't be the only one, it's not necessarily a fault, the same could be said of many successful musicians (e.g. Philip Glass, Salvatore Sciarrino, Morton Feldman.) Listening here to Sylvestrov's second string quartet played by the Lysenkos.
In no way do I want to influence your feeling. But I see or rather hear Silvestrov's musical journey differently. Eventually the man ended the argument in his head, the confrontation and tension is gone. All is at peace. There is not much to say, only shadows of past thoughts arise out of nowhere and disappear into nowhere. Peace at last.
Nikos Kazantzakis epitaph comes to mind:
I hope for nothing
I fear nothing
I am free.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 12, 2023, 12:28:01 AMIn no way do I want to influence your feeling. But I see or rather hear Silvestrov's musical journey differently. Eventually the man ended the argument in his head, the confrontation and tension is gone. All is at peace. There is not much to say, only shadows of past thoughts arise out of nowhere and disappear into nowhere. Peace at last.
Nikos Kazantzakis epitaph comes to mind:
I hope for nothing
I fear nothing
I am free.
Beautifully put. I couldn't agree more.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2023, 11:59:31 PM(https://i.discogs.com/qGYIr00-03sJzBtVe3GQViEPpAWARc8f8LGHlLZiAWA/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTY1NDY3/NzgtMTY3NjU0ODUy/NC03NDM3LmpwZWc.jpeg)
I'm getting the following feeling about the difference between Sylvestrov and Schnittke - I'll post it here to be refuted. With Schnittke I feel as though I'm confronted with a bold, restless, experimenting intellect (same feeling as I have with Stockhausen and Rihm.) With Sylvestrov, I feel as though I'm confronted with a composer who found a shtick and milked it. He wouldn't be the only one, it's not necessarily a fault, the same could be said of many successful musicians (e.g. Philip Glass, Salvatore Sciarrino, Morton Feldman.) Listening here to Sylvestrov's second string quartet played by the Lysenkos.
Well I'll keep posting any thoughts - Schmelz's book is very inspiring.
The Lysenko performance of the second quartet is outstanding - it's a good thing that Spotify have made it accessible.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 12, 2023, 12:28:01 AMIn no way do I want to influence your feeling. But I see or rather hear Silvestrov's musical journey differently. Eventually the man ended the argument in his head, the confrontation and tension is gone. All is at peace. There is not much to say, only shadows of past thoughts arise out of nowhere and disappear into nowhere. Peace at last.
Nikos Kazantzakis epitaph comes to mind:
I hope for nothing
I fear nothing
I am free.
There is certainly a strand in his music which is quiet and peaceful - things like Kitsch Music and Fleeting Melodies.
But I want to suggest that this is only a strand. For example, while it's true that the third string quartet (2011) is not as dissonant as Drama, the dissonance and tension is still there. There are tensions caused by a dialogue between sweet music and (for want of a better word) sour music.
The so called "metaphorical music" is just a part of his output. In fact, I've come across quotes where he says that this type of melodic and tonal music is as avant garde as anything else he wrote, because melodic tonal music was against the current of the age when he wrote it.
By the way, I'll just mention something I feel about Fleeting Melodies. The recording quality is fabulous - it sounds so small, and domestic - there are just no big gestures and big sounds. It sounds like music you could play in a big apartment block - the neighbours won't hear it probably, and anyway even if they caught a bit of it, it's so sweet and lovely, they'd be happy.
It is the most anti-Beethoven music I have ever heard!
Is it kitsch? Well I don't think so - it's certainly not the musical equivalent of Jeff Koons, because to me, it sounds authentic. It's as if he's taken the musical language of Grieg or Mendelssohn or Chopin or Schubert or Tchaikovsky and used it quite authentically, with no irony.
This glorious CD.
https://www.discogs.com/release/2268340-Valentyn-Silvestrov-Bohdana-Pivnenko-Valeriy-Matiukhin-Fleeting-Melodies
Quote from: Mandryka on August 13, 2023, 12:56:41 AMThere is certainly a strand in his music which is quiet and peaceful - things like Kitsch Music and Fleeting Melodies.
But I want to suggest that this is only a strand. For example, while it's true that the third string quartet (2011) is not as dissonant as Drama, the dissonance and tension is still there. There are tensions caused by a dialogue between sweet music and (for want of a better word) sour music.
The so called "metaphorical music" is just a part of his output. In fact, I've come across quotes where he says that this type of melodic and tonal music is as avant garde as anything else he wrote, because melodic tonal music was against the current of the age when he wrote it.
One could be at peace even amidst the war. Dissonance may well be present and all the sound and fury come and go. The point is does one argue with what is or not argue.
I know Silvestrov music is not the same all around. But I see something in his quiet music that sets him apart from others.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 13, 2023, 12:56:41 AMthis type of melodic and tonal music is as avant garde as anything else he wrote, because melodic tonal music was against the current of the age when he wrote it.
It was against the current of his own social circle and models in the West that he looked to, no more. The vast majority of Soviet composers in that era never stopped writing tonal melodic music, and the avant-garde of early Silvestrov (and Schnittke etc.) were always a sideshow in Soviet classical music.
That said, Silvestrov was definitely innovative in how he wrote more tonal, melodic music, as he created a soundworld that was different from anyone else. (I don't mean that 1970s output of anonymous "kitsch music" but the works of the 1980s like the Fifth).
Quote from: CRCulver on August 13, 2023, 05:35:40 AMIt was against the current of his own social circle and models in the West that he looked to, no more. The vast majority of Soviet composers in that era never stopped writing tonal melodic music, and the avant-garde of early Silvestrov (and Schnittke etc.) were always a sideshow in Soviet classical music.
That said, Silvestrov was definitely innovative in how he wrote more tonal, melodic music, as he created a soundworld that was different from anyone else. (I don't mean that 1970s output of anonymous "kitsch music" but the works of the 1980s like the Fifth).
Yes I can imagine that's true having recently discovered Popov's quartet. And I suppose there was lots of tonal music on the other side of the iron curtain too, thinking of Glass and Rochberg and even here in England, Howard Skempton.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 13, 2023, 01:07:27 AMBy the way, I'll just mention something I feel about Fleeting Melodies. The recording quality is fabulous - it sounds so small, and domestic - there are just no big gestures and big sounds. It sounds like music you could play in a big apartment block - the neighbours won't hear it probably, and anyway even if they caught a bit of it, it's so sweet and lovely, they'd be happy.
It is the most anti-Beethoven music I have ever heard!
Is it kitsch? Well I don't think so - it's certainly not the musical equivalent of Jeff Koons, because to me, it sounds authentic. It's as if he's taken the musical language of Grieg or Mendelssohn or Chopin or Schubert or Tchaikovsky and used it quite authentically, with no irony.
This glorious CD.
From the cover of the CD:
"Fleeting Melodies" is a large cycle, comprised of seven works, which are performed without interruption - as one large text. For me in this work, there is a certain analogy with Bach's cycle "The Art of the Fugue"; in Bach's work the didactic idea and its application are primary. I could have called this cycle "The Art of the Melody", but in this name the didactic idea is missing and only the "art" is represented; thus "fleeting melodies" - the expanse, in which melodies exist on the boundary between their appearance and disappearance...
-Valentin Silvestrov
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 13, 2023, 08:22:08 AMFrom the cover of the CD:
"Fleeting Melodies" is a large cycle, comprised of seven works, which are performed without interruption - as one large text. For me in this work, there is a certain analogy with Bach's cycle "The Art of the Fugue"; in Bach's work the didactic idea and its application are primary. I could have called this cycle "The Art of the Melody", but in this name the didactic idea is missing and only the "art" is represented; thus "fleeting melodies" - the expanse, in which melodies exist on the boundary between their appearance and disappearance...
-Valentin Silvestrov
Blimey!
Silvestrov's a really good pianist - shame about the sound but I'm not complaining - it's wonderful to have it. This performance of Kitch Music - light, and alive - is what made see the light. What is a pitty is that there's only three of the five pieces.
https://silvestrov.bandcamp.com/album/kitsch-music-1977
Having never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
Quote from: AnotherSpin on July 03, 2023, 05:06:35 AMOf Silvestrov's music, I return most often to Silent Songs. It's hard to say how much they will be appreciated by those who can't understand the words.
Well I can't understand the words. It's obviously not late Feldman, it's obviously very different from late Feldman, but my experience of listening shows something in common. For one thing, there's the very Feldmanesque feeling of wondering whether this is a repeat of music you heard before, and not being sure at all. A strange disorienting effect of memory. Feldman was also preoccupied by quietness in his later music, and egoless performance.
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2023, 01:20:30 PMHaving never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
Drama (especially the trio, the final movement of Drama) and The Requiem were the pieces which caught my attention first.
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2023, 01:20:30 PMHaving never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
I started with some early ECM recordings of Silvestrov, such as Bagetellen und Serenaden.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2023, 01:34:54 PMWell I can't understand the words. It's obviously not late Feldman, it's obviously very different from late Feldman, but my experience of listening shows something in common. For one thing, there's the very Feldmanesque feeling of wondering whether this is a repeat of music you heard before, and not being sure at all. A strange disorienting effect of memory. Feldman was also preoccupied by quietness in his later music, and egoless performance.
I approached this cycles from a different angle, through poetry. Some of the poems are very close to me, and it seems that Silvestrov's music not only perfectly suits the mood and meaning of the poems, but enhances them.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 14, 2023, 09:56:59 PMI approached this cycles from a different angle, through poetry. Some of the poems are very close to me, and it seems that Silvestrov's music not only perfectly suits the mood and meaning of the poems, but enhances them.
Yes, I've heard that point of view elsewhere but it's not accessible to me. Interesting music though, no doubt about it.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2023, 10:48:57 PMYes, I've heard that point of view elsewhere but it's accessible to me. Interesting music though, no doubt about it.
Also, some of the songs are written to poems that have already been put to music, and in the previous version(s) are not only famous, but also popular. Which does not prevent Silvestrov from creating his own version, and making it better, as I hear it.
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2023, 01:20:30 PMHaving never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
Symphonies 4 and 5 :)
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2023, 01:20:30 PMHaving never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
If you like choral works, this recent recording of his song cycle
Maidan is quite moving.
https://ecmrecords.com/product/valentin-silvestrov-maidan-kyiv-chamber-choir-mykola-hobdych/
-Bruce
(https://scontent.fods2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/368040609_3418869008371258_3955956613612309401_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HUr3cPxbwygAX8r7L3E&_nc_ht=scontent.fods2-1.fna&oh=00_AfB7khDzy6US3b_Yzw-xQ0J5c8qusrAST2mAxVmvfEtAdA&oe=64E6034D)
This is presumably Bruno Maderna conducting the creation of the third symphony at Darmstadt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5v6HAWy8xo&ab_channel=NiniHampo
https://silvestrov.bandcamp.com/album/silent-songs-1974-1977
This collection of Silent Songs is interesting for Track 15 -- which has Silvestrov singing. This is what he wanted! He certainly didn't get it from the singer in all the other tracks -- Yuriy Oleynik. Sergey Yakovenko's closer though, on the ECM release.
There's more songs with Silvestrov singing here -- Kitsch songs this time.
https://silvestrov.bandcamp.com/album/kitsch-songs-1973
I have a mixed feelings of Valentin Silvestrov's singing.
Of the some available recordings of Silent Songs I return to the version with Yakovenko. Some songs are achingly beautiful, also because of the lyrics.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on January 28, 2024, 04:31:10 PMI have a mixed feelings of Valentin Silvestrov's singing.
Of the some available recordings of Silent Songs I return to the version with Yakovenko. Some songs are achingly beautiful, also because of the lyrics.
According to Peter Schmelz (Sonic Overload), Silvestrov has expressed some reservations about Yakovenko - there are times when he's too heroic, too forceful for the composer. But yes, that ECM recording is magic.
(https://scontent.flhr10-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/147593854_3693236854074892_6452381978805906607_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=2UUQ2riVyrAAX9g97zx&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr10-2.fna&oh=00_AfAzntRREsgXRB-l0U2a7PRLpMR-LZ1BBtHJyWiN_uW5Ig&oe=65DEEA49)
Live performance of the second piano sonata from Hayk Melikyan here - to complement Evgeny Gromov's on bandcamp (Gromov seems less forceful and heroic, more self effacing - hence better. But it could be a sound thing.)
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2023, 01:20:30 PMHaving never heard a note of his music, where would you all recommend I start?
The second piano sonata.
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2024, 12:30:27 AMAccording to Peter Schmelz (Sonic Overload), Silvestrov has expressed some reservations about Yakovenko - there are times when he's too heroic, to forceful for the composer. But yes, that ECM recording is magic.
Well, in comparison with Martynov with Lyubimov and Krimmel with Grimaud, Yakovenko sounds the best for me.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on January 29, 2024, 12:53:46 AMWell, in comparison with Martynov with Lyubimov and Krimmel with Grimaud, Yakovenko sounds the best for me.
Agreed
Huh. Silvestrov on Bandcamp. Wouldn't have guessed that.
Listening to Symphony 1 from there now, with Volodimir Sirenko conducting the National Philharmonic of Ukraine back in May 2001.
I like Silvestrov, and this is another helpful way to hear him. 17 minute symphony with lots of atmosphere and looking nervously over your shoulder - very much in my wheelhouse.
https://silvestrov.bandcamp.com/album/space-of-memory-and-time-live-at-khanenkiv-museum-2023
Interesting to contrast the performance of the 3rd piano sonata here, from Evgeny Gromov, with Lubimov's (sweeter?) recording. This bandcamp release looks valuable. Sylvestrov's three piano sonatas seem to me to be magnificent! Gromov also a great new discovery.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTMzNDU4MC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NTQ1MDUzMzR9)
Nice Qt 1 from Matangi. More than nice - they make the music sound like a masterpiece. How crude and vulgar the Schnittke Qt 3 sounds by comparison.
But what does the last chord mean?
@AnotherSpin Do you know if Silvestrov was aware of Giya Kancheli? Superficially at least, there's something similar about what they do.
Late Kancheli and late Silvestrov do have a degree of similarity to them. Early-mid: not at all. I don't know why their respective aesthetics converged over time.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 14, 2024, 01:05:57 AM@AnotherSpin Do you know if Silvestrov was aware of Giya Kancheli? Superficially at least, there's something similar about what they do.
Yes, both composers were well-acquainted with each other's work. Silvestrov has a cycle dedicated to Kancheli, titled
Five Melodies for the New Year.
To be released on 11 July:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3MjUyOS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDQ4MTMwNTN9)
Ah man, I can't see the photo. Could you please tell me what it is,
@Symphonic Addict?
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on April 16, 2025, 04:21:27 PMAh man, I can't see the photo. Could you please tell me what it is, @Symphonic Addict?
A new Naxos release that includes his Symphony No. 8 and Violin Concerto:
(https://i.imgur.com/UoCeSVu.png)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 16, 2025, 04:25:31 PMA new Naxos release that includes his Symphony No. 8 and Violin Concerto:
(https://i.imgur.com/UoCeSVu.png)
Oh..wow! Thanks for the information. I'm definitely looking forward to this release as I've been wanting to listen to his 8th symphony for a number years. I didn't even know he composed a
Violin Concerto. Interesting.
Is what is called "Violin Concerto" here Dedication for violin and orchestra (already recorded by Kremer decades ago), or a different work?
It's a proper violin concerto in four movements.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 16, 2025, 03:25:29 PMTo be released on 11 July:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3MjUyOS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDQ4MTMwNTN9)
Thank you. Looking forward to this release.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61e6QIU8XjL._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Svetlana Savenko sings a substantial song cycle from the 1980s, "Stufen" - worth a listen, the music's quite original in its way. It's streaming, search "festival alternativa"
https://open.spotify.com/album/402daaLXH9VGDoSgcFW4CF?si=PUeXPgLjT9yash3oGmv5Mg
She also made this recording, which I think is different, I'll play it later.
(http://i61.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0517/03/a66685b3f5720be08b843f3dc0201103.jpg?r=1)
Afanassiev plays 30 minutes of Silvestrov.
https://archive.org/details/grth_20250215
Has anyone listened to the Naxos recording of the 8th symphony + VC ?
It's in my cart but I'm not quite ready to pay 20-something $ for a Naxos recording. I know I will eventually though 🤭. Their recording of the 7th + assorted works is superb.