:(
UE are not happy:
http://imslp.org/
I don't really understand what legal grounds UE are giving, given that everything was rigorously checked for legality.
Here's the actual letter that they sent:
http://imslpforums.org/Second%20U-E%20Cease%20and%20Desist%20Letter.pdf
That sucks! That site was awesome...
And I never got around to downloading a lot of what I wanted...
>:(
Stupid UE... I thought it was all public domain music only.
Luckily I got most of what I wanted off that site. I guess we've still got that Werner Icking archive, right?
Quote from: Guido on October 19, 2007, 04:53:40 PM
I don't really understand what legal grounds UE are giving, given that everything was rigorously checked for legality.
Legality? Many scores must have violated copyrights. ???
Yes, perhaps I too sensed something was going on! I've been heavily downloading from IMSLP these last few weeks and am happy at least to the extent that I have got almost everything they had going that I was interested in (which was a great deal). But I feel like boycotting UE now....and how dare they use Janacek's name in the cause of oppression! $:)
i just saw this this morning, and was about to make a thread.....
yesterday i tried getting to the site several times, and it was down for maintenance. Of course, i thought "oh yeah, they're probably really making the site into something amazing." And of course, whenever i expect something good something very bad happens, so it really wasn't surprising in a way. How could something as good as IMSLP last that long anyways, nothing that good lasts.
I did download most of what i wanted, but there was a lot more i was waiting for- the never even finished scanning the rest of the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra! i don't know wtf was going on with that.... and the most important, three of Mahler's Symphonies- 2, 7, and 10 (1st movement) they don't have- if i asked for them for my birthday, i'm not sure i'd be able to get anything else...
i don't see what the problem is if the scores are already in public domain
I think he realised that if he gave in to UE's demands for an IP address filter on access, and implemented one, UE would immediately demand that he prevent people from using proxies to access the site while pretending to be in Canada (which they would demand, even though it isn't possible).
Plus it's normal behaviour for a large company faced with an irritant who lacks assets just to threaten them with lawsuits in the hope that they go away. In this case it worked.
I hope that IMSLP will be resurrected somehow. It was a very valuable service for music-lovers on a lower budget (particularly music students and young performers, ie: those who would form the future of music).
Quote from: edward on October 20, 2007, 06:26:32 AM
I hope that IMSLP will be resurrected somehow. It was a very valuable service for music-lovers on a lower budget (particularly music students and young performers, ie: those who would form the future of music).
and of course publishing companies don't think about this- all they care about is money, not people, just like any other large company or business
Quote from: greg on October 20, 2007, 06:32:56 AM
and of course publishing companies don't think about this- all they care about is money
So, does that mean Greg that you'll never want your music published by a reputable company? :P
Quote from: johnQpublic on October 20, 2007, 06:46:31 AM
So, does that mean Greg that you'll never want your music published by a reputable company? :P
exactly, i don't care much about the money, though it's nice to have.
If I can get scores how I want them to look with Finale, that'd be great! And then I could let anyone get them my scores for free! 8)
oh yeah, a couple things i thought of adding to this thread. The first thing is- reminds me of a while ago when "they" tried to shut down a bunch of guitar tab sites. It's not exactly the same thing, but reminds me of it. I don't think it was publishers, but i did notice lots of guitar tab sites that were down. But now.... i don't even worry about it since the one site that has basically every tab on the net is up, maybe the others are too, i have no idea.
the second thing- if someone notices a resurrection of IMSLP or another site trying to do the same thing, update us! 8)
new updates on the page
QuoteUPDATE: Due to demand, I strongly encourage any organization willing to support a continuation of IMSLP to contact me at imslp@imslp.org . For everyone else, please check back from time to time for news. I was very happy about all the moral support that you showed on the forums and in e-mails, and I would like to express my uttermost gratitude for the support.
UPDATE 2: I am currently in negotiations with various people and organizations in the interest of continuing IMSLP. Please check back periodically for more news.
I have also been doing much thinking with regards to the support I have received (and am much grateful for!), and wanted to say the following:
Do not hate Universal Edition. For they are human, like us. They have reasons for their actions. I personally do not believe their actions are for the good of the society, but we are all human and we do make mistakes, sometimes large ones. Instead of sending hate mail to Universal Edition, send mail to Universal Edition explaning why their actions restrict the rights of people around the world.
I also believe that the fundamental meaning of music is lost when music is used to split people into opposing camps. For music is supposed to unite people, not divide them. Music is supposed to make people understand, not alienate. Therefore, I repeat again, do not hate Universal Edition. I am positive that they love music as much as we do (or else why be a music publisher?); the current situation at hand is simply due to a misunderstanding between Universal Edition and us.
That said, I still would like to thank immensely the literally hundreds of e-mails I've received in support of IMSLP. I don't think I understood fully what I meant when I said I will respond to them all, but I will keep my word. However, some responses may be very late, and I apologize beforehand for this.
Many people have also requested copies of the database and extensions. I promise I will release them; the issue right now is just that I am preparing for my Masters application (which is due in a little more than a month), and this incident has taken a further toll on my time, so I may have to release the database and extensions late. I apologize greatly for the delay! But I will keep my word.
i think they'll start it again, at least someone will 8)
So, Greg.
Should there be no publishers?
Quote from: johnQpublic on October 21, 2007, 10:45:57 AM
So, Greg.
Should there be no publishers?
They can do what they want, doesn't matter. I myself would rather keep it simple and have all my scores on in a single folder on a computer, or a CD. It's a lot neater that way.
Quote from: greg on October 21, 2007, 10:16:55 AM
exactly, i don't care much about the money, though it's nice to have.
Say that when you're forced to be financially independent and/or have a family to support.
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 22, 2007, 07:34:50 PM
Say that when you're forced to be financially independent and/or have a family to support.
of course i'd make my money with another job, composing on the side......
i just wonder, though, what exactly publishers do nowadays. Do they all use Finale for scores or what?...... what if you type in a score and like how it looks exactly with Finale, do they just take it and print up books?..... the money would be nice, but i'd hate it if people had to pay to get my scores- i also wonder if letting someone read one of your own scores would be illegal? lol
All the smaller companies do use either Sibelius or Finale. In fact my latest publication that's in preparation was done by me on Sibelius but the publisher is using Finale and I did a special thing that he can't duplicate, so he's scratching his head how to make it look like mine!
I can't speak for the BIG companies though. I would kind of hope they still use standard, old-fashioned "type setting".
Quote from: johnQpublic on October 23, 2007, 06:01:31 AM
All the smaller companies do use either Sibelius or Finale. In fact my latest publication that's in preparation was done by me on Sibelius but the publisher is using Finale and I did a special thing that he can't duplicate, so he's scratching his head how to make it look like mine!
lol that sounds a bit silly
he must be REALLY commited to Finale
Quote from: imslpDo not hate Universal Edition. For they are human, like us. They have reasons for their actions. I personally do not believe their actions are for the good of the society, but we are all human and we do make mistakes, sometimes large ones. Instead of sending hate mail to Universal Edition, send mail to Universal Edition explaining why their actions restrict the rights of people around the world.
Sterling stuff here; such character deserves support.
Well, in the spirit of IMSLP, did anyone happen to dl Alkan's 12 etudes in minor keys, more specifically the concerto for solo piano? Perhaps you could PM me, as I really wanted to get a hold of them, but never thought to on the site. :)
What an irritating bit of news. :-\ Especially since Szymanowski (who is mentioned in the letter) goes into public domain this year, and that's a fact I've heard repeated over here on the radio and elsewhere more times than I would care to count. I'm not saying the whole letter is crap but at least that little bit certainly is. Or else copyright law is even more of a mess than I thought.
The whole issue with this site was that it had some works which were still copyrighted in the US, but the site is hosted in Canada, which has a smaller copyright term (life + 50). When does one country have to obey to another countries laws?
For those interested, there's a lot of reading material about copyright law re the IMSLP case on http://imslpforums.org (http://imslpforums.org).
Interestingly enough, UE wrote another letter where they tried to explain the details of their claim. Here are the composers they list:
Quote from: http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=688Leos Janacek is in copyright in Spain.
Richard Strauss is still in copyright in Europe.
Alban Berg is still in copyright in Spain and some works in France.
Some of the works by Mahler are arrangements or edited versions, which means they enjoy copyright protection for their editors.
Joseph Marx is in full copyright worldwide, including Canada.
Schönberg is in copyright in Europe and the USA.
Bartók is in copyright in Europe and the USA.
Interestingly enough, Szymanowski is
not on the list. >:( I haven't got enough patience to wade through all the pages of discussions to see if they later added anything about him. I do suspect it was either carelessness or even a bluff on their part... ::)
Quote from: toro913 on November 01, 2007, 07:22:53 AM
When does one country have to obey to another countries laws?
Apparently never (at least that is what I understand from the imslpforums discussions): it is the country's own responsibility to restrict access to scores on the internet which are not yet out of copyright in that country. Other countries need not care at all.
A BBC news article on the subject. (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7074786.stm)
Nothing revelatory but nice to see lawyers morally supporting IMSLP's case.
Only ten days left. (http://imslp.wikidot.com/) 8)
Quote from: QUDSIYA ZAHER on June 21, 2008, 10:46:31 AM
Only ten days left. (http://imslp.wikidot.com/) 8)
Excellent news!
can't waaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttt 8)
the rebirth of IMSLP 0:)
http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
so soooooooooooooo glad they could do this 0:)
they probably don't have much new (good) stuff yet, but i'll have to check
Everybody! They have the complete Sibelius symphonies up! :o
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH you all have to check it out!
;D ;D ;D
And there I was trying to
free up space on my hard drive...
Actually, the first score I tried to look at had this message:
QuoteError
You have reached this page because the file you requested has not been reviewed for copyright, or is currently restricted due to technical reasons.
A significant portion of the original IMSLP is still pending copyright review, so expect the number of blocked files to decrease dramatically in the next few months after IMSLP reopening. More details on how to spot a blocked file without having to click on it will be released here very soon.
so it looks as if there's still a bit more waiting to do...
yep, i see a few with those, but the only ones i've seen were non-PD US. They might be trying to block access with them, depending on where you computer is, maybe?
Quote from: lukeottevanger on July 01, 2008, 10:12:26 AM
Actually, the first score I tried to look at had this message:
It looks like that's the message you get for every score that isn't PD (Public Domain) in the US. (At least that's my experience so far.)
I'll have a look!
Later: downloaded the First movement of Bruckner's First Symphony. Just had to obey the laws of my country regarding copyright...