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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: EmpNapoleon on October 21, 2007, 12:05:48 PM

Title: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: EmpNapoleon on October 21, 2007, 12:05:48 PM
Is clapping a primitive form of appreciation, or did it arise in a particular civilization (I know seals clap)?  It seems to me that the audience's approval (most of them) is determined beforehand on the basis of a performer's merit or popularity, not on the specific performance.  I've never heard boos?

Can anyone think of an alternative to the applause?  I'm not suggesting a Rite of Spring riot, but the thought of making your hands and ears sting is quite stupid.  We just heard great sounds, now it's time for barbarity.

One night, I went with my friend to a Mahler concert.  He doesn't listen to our music (our, classical, good, whatever you call it), and after the performance, screamed out, "Mahler your rock!" in a funny, deamonic voice.  A few people turned their backs in bemusement, while others laughed.

I suggest, instead of clapping, the audience makes the sound a crowd makes when their favorite team scores a goal.  This is just a joke.  I know most people at classical concerts are older.  But there are old people at soccer matches who cannot control their emotions when a goal is scored.  Different crowd, different cheers?
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Kullervo on October 21, 2007, 12:42:51 PM
I suppose one could wave his/her arms in the air, like the deaf.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 12:59:41 PM
Or yell like some of those retarded Japanese audience, "AHHHHHHHH!!!!" the moment the last chord ends.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: EmpNapoleon on October 21, 2007, 01:03:19 PM
 funny! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on October 21, 2007, 01:03:29 PM
People often clap, cheer AND stamp their feet.

I like all of the above and contribute with the former and latter examples.

However, I dislike whistling at classical music concerts  ::) When I hear that I cringe  >:(
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Mozart on October 21, 2007, 01:08:45 PM
Quote"Mahler your rock!" in a funny, deamonic voice.

I wish I had the courage for that!
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Renfield on October 21, 2007, 02:03:16 PM
I've once been to a fantastic live Mahler 6th, conducted by Marcus Stenz (!) with one of the two Cologne orchestras (I think the WDR one), where at the end the applause was accompanied by football-stadium-like roars from the back seats. ;D
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: max on October 21, 2007, 11:59:15 PM
Clapping your hands is the easiest thing to do when you are not amused but almost everyone else was! After all who wants to look like an idiot in a crowd of appreciative spectators!
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Kullervo on October 22, 2007, 06:42:52 PM
If we should get rid of any old common traditions, it should be handshaking. I can't stand shaking someone's hand!
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Mozart on October 22, 2007, 08:46:09 PM
Yes clapping sucks...after every freggin pause people clap...even if it sucked!

QuoteIf we should get rid of any old common traditions, it should be handshaking. I can't stand shaking someone's hand!

Agreed, like in CYE, Larry David and doesn't shake Ben Stiller's hand because he cough on it..:) why assume they hadn't coughed on it before?
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Anne on October 24, 2007, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Corey on October 22, 2007, 06:42:52 PM
If we should get rid of any old common traditions, it should be handshaking. I can't stand shaking someone's hand!

How are you going to know if that caveman has a rock in his hand unless you check it out by clasping his hand?
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Kullervo on October 24, 2007, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: Anne on October 24, 2007, 04:28:49 PM
How are you going to know if that caveman has a rock in his hand unless you check it out by clasping his hand?

That's why I don't like doing it. It's an outdated custom that exists only for the fact that everyone else does it which means nothing to me.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on October 24, 2007, 05:04:41 PM
Yeah, hand shaking is a bit of a drag.

When clients come to meet with me, theres an expectation that you're gonna shake hands before and after the meeting  ::)

I'm always quick to wash my hands after they leave!  ;D
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: EmpNapoleon on October 24, 2007, 05:09:11 PM
I tried to bring the "heil" back with some friends.  Not because I'm a Nazi, because it was used by Roman nobility (not that I'm Roman nor noble).  It's a better form of salutation.  But at least, unlike clapping, the handshake doesn't sting my ears.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Renfield on October 25, 2007, 03:18:48 AM
Quote from: Corey on October 24, 2007, 05:00:15 PM
That's why I don't like doing it. It's an outdated custom that exists only for the fact that everyone else does it which means nothing to me.

It also implies a level of intimacy, and recognition of one's "peers". The fact that it developed in a now-outdated social context does not mean it is necessarily something to "drop": the acquired "meaning" is as important as the original one.

Especially given how both ultimately imply physical intimacy of some sort, which to my mind is not something to "drop" this early. Perhaps in a few thousand years, but not yet! ;)

If nothing else, shall we stop hugging, too? Kissing? All these behavioural "check-points" - inherent or acquired - are still as useful as ever, in my opinion; even if only through their proper extrapolation into our current collective world-view. :)


Umm... Though please, EmpNapoleon, do drop that "heil". I, for one, would not be very happy to hear someone next to me so "intensely" reminisce earlier times of this sort, to be frank. :-\
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: 12tone. on October 28, 2007, 07:51:28 PM
Does anyone here still use or do you still hear people yell "Bravo!!!"? 

That's another way...
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: EmpNapoleon on October 28, 2007, 08:15:32 PM
Quote from: Renfield on October 25, 2007, 03:18:48 AM
Umm... Though please, EmpNapoleon, do drop that "heil". I, for one, would not be very happy to hear someone next to me so "intensely" reminisce earlier times of this sort, to be frank. :-\

As you wish, Ren.  From whom did you quote "intensely?"  We were merely saluting eachother with a straight hand.  Nobody was screaming "heil!" 
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Don on October 28, 2007, 08:44:26 PM
Quote from: Corey on October 22, 2007, 06:42:52 PM
If we should get rid of any old common traditions, it should be handshaking. I can't stand shaking someone's hand!

Intimacy is hard for some folks.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: 12tone. on October 28, 2007, 08:51:51 PM
What about giving a few quick 'byoot byoot byoot's from an air horn after a symphony?

(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2913579/2/istockphoto_2913579_air_horn.jpg)
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Kullervo on November 01, 2007, 05:35:52 AM
Quote from: Don on October 28, 2007, 08:44:26 PM
Intimacy is hard for some folks.

Some people are much more reticent than others.
Title: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: AB68 on November 06, 2007, 04:22:26 PM
A couple of weeks ago I attended a concert in Chicago. Emmanuel Ax/Haitink/CSO were playing the Brahms second Piano Concerto. The audience were ecstatic, and started to applaud before the last note was played by the orchestra.
This is something I have never experienced before. I live in Hamburg, Germany, and go to concerts almost every week. I have been to countless concerts all over Europe, and a few times to the U.S, but as I said, have never experienced this phenomenon anywhere else.
Is this a common occurence in the U.S?
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: Heather Harrison on November 06, 2007, 04:31:32 PM
Unfortunately, it does seem to be common; I have encountered it at many concerts.  In general, concert etiquette is somewhat lacking here.

Heather
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: Renfield on November 06, 2007, 04:32:19 PM
I'd think it's more "uncommon in Germany", than it is "common in the U.S." Perhaps this regards the formality in the manner of the audience's approach to the music? :)

(I am not implying that U.S. audiences are uncultured: I am implying they might approach the music a bit differently than, say, the central European audience - or the British audience, for that matter!)
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: hornteacher on November 06, 2007, 04:43:06 PM
How long before the last note are we talking about?  Seconds?  A minute?  During the second movement?
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: AB68 on November 06, 2007, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: hornteacher on November 06, 2007, 04:43:06 PM
How long before the last note are we talking about?  Seconds?  A minute?  During the second movement?

Just a few seconds, but enough to drown down the last notes so you couldn't hear them.
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on November 06, 2007, 04:53:23 PM
Yeah, annoying when audiences do that  :(

I like the final notes to resonant around the hall in 'silence'...then clap like mad ;D
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: hornteacher on November 06, 2007, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: AB68 on November 06, 2007, 04:51:42 PM
Just a few seconds, but enough to drown down the last notes so you couldn't hear them.

Hmm, that does seem a bit much.  The ones I've been to usually the clapping starts right after the last note speaks but before the echo dies away.
Title: Re: Is it common to start clapping before the music ends in the U.S?
Post by: Que on November 06, 2007, 09:06:14 PM
Quote from: hornteacher on November 06, 2007, 05:37:53 PM
Hmm, that does seem a bit much.  The ones I've been to usually the clapping starts right after the last note speaks but before the echo dies away.

That's a great pity - the last note has to be allowed to die away for a proper ending.
In my experience with Dutch audiences, the quieter the music ends, the longer the pause before the clapping. And rightly so. :)

BTW the audience should take its que from the conductor: as long has he keeps his last position - NO clapping!

Q
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: c#minor on November 07, 2007, 09:27:06 AM
I think we should keep shaking hands. I really think you can get a feel for a person on how they shake your hand. I can typically see if someone is confident, over-confident, timid, and so on. Yes, it does have "germ issues" but nothing a quick wash of the hands can't get rid of.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: jochanaan on November 07, 2007, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: c#minor on November 07, 2007, 09:27:06 AM
I think we should keep shaking hands. I really think you can get a feel for a person on how they shake your hand. I can typically see if someone is confident, over-confident, timid, and so on. Yes, it does have "germ issues" but nothing a quick wash of the hands can't get rid of.
II Corinthians 13:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr013.html#12) ;D

On the Celibidache Bruckner recordings with the Munich Philharmonic, the pause before the applause is nearly half a minute long--but all the more enthusiastic when it comes.  You get the sense that the audience had been in a Zen-like trance. :D

Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: Kullervo on November 07, 2007, 02:11:33 PM
Quote from: c#minor on November 07, 2007, 09:27:06 AM
I think we should keep shaking hands. I really think you can get a feel for a person on how they shake your hand. I can typically see if someone is confident, over-confident, timid, and so on. Yes, it does have "germ issues" but nothing a quick wash of the hands can't get rid of.

I'm not afraid of catching diseases from peoples' hands, it's the obligation I object to. Once someone holds out their hand, you can't rightly say, "Oh, no thanks." You are required to shake the hand that is offered you — or cut them to the quick with your rudeness!
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: c#minor on November 08, 2007, 10:31:33 AM
Ahhhhh i see. Yes, i guess i could agree with you. I have had a situation where an acquaintance spotted me from a distance. He did not know that i had spotted him first with his hand scratching in the lower regions of his body, inside the pants. When he approached he put his hand out for a shake, so i put my hands over my mouth and let out a loud, long cough. I then told him, "No, i don't want to get you sick."

And on the same note it is an obligatory display of politeness.
Title: Re: Please, hold your applause.
Post by: EmpNapoleon on November 08, 2007, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: Corey on November 07, 2007, 02:11:33 PM
Once someone holds out their hand, you can't rightly say, "Oh, no thanks."

That would be funny.  I'm going to start doing that.

Great story c minor.

When my former priest held out his hand, I had to kiss it in respect.  There's nobody else that I know who demands that type of respect.  Perhaps if there were more of a rank in our society, poeple would be greeted differently.  Handshakes for the common man, bows for the great.