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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: max on October 31, 2007, 07:13:36 PM

Title: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: max on October 31, 2007, 07:13:36 PM
What would qualify as the strangest or least representative music by your favorite composer(s)? Something that would make you say, "He wrote that"?
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: mahlertitan on November 01, 2007, 12:13:16 AM
It happens all the time, off the top of my head is Bruckner's march for orchestra and Schoenberg's suite for string orchestra.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Cato on November 01, 2007, 03:33:27 AM
Bruckner's String Quintet came to mind first.

A potboiler like Wellington's Victory by Beethoven came to mind second.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Florestan on November 01, 2007, 03:43:02 AM
Wagner's operas as compared to his piano music.  ;D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Grazioso on November 01, 2007, 04:02:10 AM
Quote from: Cato on November 01, 2007, 03:33:27 AM
Bruckner's String Quintet came to mind first.

To me, Bruckner's String Quintet (a drop-dead gorgeous work, btw) sounds very much in line with his symphonies.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Cato on November 01, 2007, 04:07:22 AM
Quote from: Grazioso on November 01, 2007, 04:02:10 AM
To me, Bruckner's String Quintet (a drop-dead gorgeous work, btw) sounds very much in line with his symphonies.

Which is why I find it a frustrating work, in a sense: I keep imagining how it would sound in an orchestral version!   8)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Mark G. Simon on November 01, 2007, 04:11:12 AM
C.F. Peters publishes a Sonatina in C major for 3 clarinets and bassoon by Brian Ferneyhough, presumably an early work. I've read it over with an ensemble, and I must say that when Schoenberg said that there's plenty of great music left to be written in C major, he would not have had this piece in mind.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Grazioso on November 01, 2007, 04:11:24 AM
Quote from: Cato on November 01, 2007, 04:07:22 AM
Which is why I find it a frustrating work, in a sense: I keep imagining how it would sound in an orchestral version!   8)

And I wonder why the heck he didn't write more beautiful chamber music :) (The string quartet is ok, but nothing really exciting.)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Harry on November 01, 2007, 04:22:24 AM
Beethovens vocal works.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Mark on November 01, 2007, 05:18:55 AM
I always think of Beethoven's British song settings as quite untypically Beethoven, despite enjoying them a great deal.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Kullervo on November 01, 2007, 05:20:21 AM
I'm going to be cheap and say Sibelius's Fourth. He never wrote anything else like it, and yet, it couldn't possibly be written by anyone other than Sibelius.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Keemun on November 01, 2007, 05:43:59 AM
Elgar's cello concerto. 

Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:16:27 AM
My entry to the list....
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:16:36 AM
...unless of course you all recognised that as Cage!
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Kullervo on November 01, 2007, 06:22:09 AM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:16:36 AM
...unless of course you all recognised that as Cage!

Atypical in that it's actually music? :D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 06:26:03 AM
Somewhere in heaven, Corey, Cage says, Ouch!  8)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:31:22 AM
Quote from: Corey on November 01, 2007, 06:22:09 AM
Atypical in that it's actually music? :D

Atypical in that it is trite. The track is called 'Reactionaries', btw....  0:) ;)

However, it has at least the merit of disproving the case of those who say Cage (etc.) couldn't write this sort of thing if they wanted to!
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: BachQ on November 01, 2007, 06:46:32 AM
Wagner Symphony no. 1
Bizet Symphony no. 1 in C Major
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: маразм1 on November 01, 2007, 08:18:25 AM
requiem-mozart
middle movement from winter-vivaldi.  It sounds like a modern 20th century sort of "sound collage" piece.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:23:45 AM
Schoenberg's cabaret songs

Brahms German Requiem
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: orbital on November 01, 2007, 08:36:24 AM
- Chopin's 1st sonata. He might be young but it is after La ci darem la mano and Rondo A la mazur, and probably a year or so before the first mazurkas

- DSCH Jazz Suites. Pieces that made many a casual listener to get more of his works only to be shocked in awe, asking the question in the title to themselves

- David Bowie - Let's Dance    :P
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: orbital on November 01, 2007, 08:36:24 AM
- David Bowie - Let's Dance

Okay, but in this case, A Good Thing!  ;D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Lady Chatterley on November 01, 2007, 08:50:41 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:23:45 AM
Schoenberg's cabaret songs

Yes,and Dimitri's Tea for Two.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Mark on November 01, 2007, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Muriel on November 01, 2007, 08:50:41 AM
Yes,and Dimitri's Tea for Two.

Good call. :)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:56:37 AM
Well done, Muriel (and d/b/a as "Tahiti Trot," no less)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Lady Chatterley on November 01, 2007, 08:58:08 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:56:37 AM
Well done, Muriel (and d/b/a as "Tahiti Trot," no less)

Oh yes,now I remember.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: MishaK on November 01, 2007, 08:59:52 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 08:23:45 AM
Brahms German Requiem

Huh? Just how is that atypical?
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 09:00:32 AM
Quote from: O Mensch on November 01, 2007, 08:59:52 AM
Huh? Just how is that atypical?

Large-scale sacred choral work.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Mark on November 01, 2007, 09:03:03 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 09:00:32 AM
Large-scale sacred choral work.

But it still sounds Brahmsian, does it not? ???
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 09:04:58 AM
Quote from: Mark on November 01, 2007, 09:03:03 AM
But it still sounds Brahmsian, does it not? ???

Oh, indeed;  like none other.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: BachQ on November 01, 2007, 09:08:53 AM
Bruckner's solo piano compositions ........
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: orbital on November 01, 2007, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: Muriel on November 01, 2007, 08:50:41 AM
Yes,and Dimitri's Tea for Two.
I tought that was just an arrangement of an anonymous-famous melody  ::)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Harry Collier on November 01, 2007, 09:15:39 AM
Quote from: Keemun on November 01, 2007, 05:43:59 AM
Elgar's cello concerto. 

What? Did he write two? The only one I know (E minor, Op 85) is 100% typical, dyed-in-the-wool Elgar.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Don on November 01, 2007, 09:21:40 AM
Quote from: marazm1 on November 01, 2007, 08:18:25 AM
requiem-mozart
middle movement from winter-vivaldi.  It sounds like a modern 20th century sort of "sound collage" piece.

What's not typical of the Mozart Requiem?
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Kullervo on November 01, 2007, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: Harry Collier on November 01, 2007, 09:15:39 AM
What? Did he write two? The only one I know (E minor, Op 85) is 100% typical, dyed-in-the-wool Elgar.


Seconded. It's probably the one Elgar work that sounds the most like Elgar. :D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Kullervo on November 01, 2007, 11:22:25 AM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:31:22 AM
Atypical in that it is trite. The track is called 'Reactionaries', btw....  0:) ;)

However, it has at least the merit of disproving the case of those who say Cage (etc.) couldn't write this sort of thing if they wanted to!

Sorry, I was being silly.  :) I have heard some of Cage's early (relatively) conventional music. His Dream is actually pretty attractive, albeit in a Brian Eno Music for Airports musical wallpaper sort of way.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: greg on November 01, 2007, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 09:00:32 AM
Large-scale sacred choral work.
not only that, it's the only thing he ever wrote that includes a harp
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 11:35:57 AM
Hadn't considered that before, Greg.

How French of Brahms  8)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Keemun on November 01, 2007, 12:44:09 PM
Quote from: Harry Collier on November 01, 2007, 09:15:39 AM
What? Did he write two? The only one I know (E minor, Op 85) is 100% typical, dyed-in-the-wool Elgar.


Nope, he only wrote one.  My reasons for nominating it are purely subjective. 
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 12:49:14 PM
Care to share?
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 12:57:20 PM
Siegfried-Idyll: it's so short, and quite listenable  8) 0:)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Keemun on November 01, 2007, 01:09:18 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 12:49:14 PM
Care to share?

Hmmmm.....  Well, I guess it's the only work I've heard by Elgar that I actually enjoy listening to.  Not that I think the rest of Elgar's music sucks (and I'm not trying to start another debate/argument like the one going on in the Mahler/Bruckner thread).  The cello concerto just sounds different (to me) from his other works.  Obviously others disagree, which is fine.  I don't claim to be an Elgar expert, or to have heard all of his works.   It's the one work that came to mind when I read the topic of this thread.  I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than that (which admittedly is about as clear as mud).   :D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: The Poopy Flying Monkey on November 01, 2007, 11:34:03 AM
not only that, it's the only thing he ever wrote that includes a harp
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 11:35:57 AM
Hadn't considered that before, Greg.
That's because it isn't true - op 17, 4 Gesange for female chorus, 2 horns and harp. Yummy
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: MishaK on November 01, 2007, 01:14:25 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 09:00:32 AM
Large-scale sacred choral work.

By that logic Fidelio, Verdi's String Quartet and Franck's Symphony in D are all atypical. Basically any work of which type a composer has produced only one example would then be fair game for inclusion here. I don't think that was the question, really.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 01:15:36 PM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:11:18 PM
That's because it isn't true - op 17, 4 Gesange for female chorus, 2 horns and harp. Yummy

Thank you for furnishing the occasion, Luke, for me to be pleased to have expressed myself with caution  8)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: BachQ on November 01, 2007, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:11:18 PM
- op 17, 4 Gesange for female chorus, 2 horns and harp. Yummy

....... what a lovely combination ........
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: bhodges on November 01, 2007, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: Herzog Wildfang on November 01, 2007, 01:16:55 PM
....... what a lovely combination ........

Those four are some of the most beautiful songs ever written, and that reminds me that I haven't heard them in quite a long time.  0:)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: bhodges on November 01, 2007, 01:23:33 PM
Those four are some of the most beautiful songs ever written, and that reminds me that I haven't heard them in quite a long time.  0:)

--Bruce

Just took the liberty of taking a small sample of the first song from Amazon. How delicious is this:

Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: bhodges on November 01, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:30:14 PM
Just took the liberty of taking a small sample of the first song from Amazon. How delicious is this:



That's my favorite of the four!  Too bad the sample ends just a few seconds before the melodic arch is complete, but yes, that is some heavenly music.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: mahlertitan on November 01, 2007, 01:57:40 PM
if you buy that album with the compete piano work by Bizet, you will be shocked how similar he is to Chopin.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: marvinbrown on November 01, 2007, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2007, 12:57:20 PM
Siegfried-Idyll: it's so short, and quite listenable  8) 0:)

That piece was meant for Cosima.....I don't think Wagner intended for anybody but Cosima to take it seriously.


  marvin
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on November 01, 2007, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: marvinbrown on November 01, 2007, 02:03:03 PM
That peice was meant for Cosima.....I don't think Wagner intended for anybody but Cosima to take it seriously.


  marvin

I think Wagners Paino sonata's are more atypical of his style than Siegfrieds Idyll  :)
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Holden on November 01, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
LvB: Choral Fantasy, Ecossaises
Prokofiev: Classical symphony
Bach: Toccata and Fugue in D minor
Schoenberg: Verklate Nacht
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Bonehelm on November 01, 2007, 08:41:22 PM
LvB - Rage over a lost penny

Not the music itself, just the title. I normally think LvB as a serious person. Why write music in memory of a lost coin?
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: 12tone. on November 01, 2007, 09:06:54 PM
A work that's least typical of a composer would have to be Henning's Symphony for Vibrato.  You know, I never saw that coming.  Hearing the works before that, one might think Henning would go in another direction, especially with his Symphony #18 and SQ #34.  Both are great but they don't have that...certain drive that the Vibrato did.  Henning seemed to put all he knew into that great symphony. 

It's great, but never saw it coming  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Mozart on November 01, 2007, 09:15:24 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on November 01, 2007, 08:41:22 PM
LvB - Rage over a lost penny

Not the music itself, just the title. I normally think LvB as a serious person. Why write music in memory of a lost coin?

I'm sure Beethoven didn't write this name. Now its stuck in my head, thanks alot!
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: mahlertitan on November 01, 2007, 09:21:33 PM
Giuseppe Verdi's E minor String Quartet.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: greg on November 02, 2007, 05:58:06 AM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 01:11:18 PM
That's because it isn't true - op 17, 4 Gesange for female chorus, 2 horns and harp. Yummy
no one listens to his song cycles so it only halfway counts  ;D
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: marvinbrown on November 02, 2007, 06:45:02 AM
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on November 01, 2007, 02:06:40 PM
I think Wagners Paino sonata's are more atypical of his style than Siegfrieds Idyll  :)

   Solitary Wanderer,  I would like to say that Wagner's early piano compositions (the sonata, the transcriptions from various popular operas (those of Halevy etc.) were in no way part of Wagner's artistic output.  Wagner viewed these piano works as "slave work" and resented those operas (of Halevy etc.) that he felt inclined to do piano transcriptions for in order to earn a living.  Wagner saw himself as a prince of German Art- his true artistic contribution are his music operas.  If we are going to address this thread's query of WORKS LEAST TYPICAL OF A COMPOSER, I would like to argue (Notwithstanding Wagner's first two experimental operas (The Fairies, and the Ban on Love))  that DIE MEISTERSINGER VON NURNBERG is the ideal candidate for a work far removed from Wagner's other works.  It is the only "romantic comedy" he wrote, that does not deal with death and redemption, that is not set in mythical times and has a general feel good light heartedness about it- least typical of him.


  PS: I believe the same can be said of Verdi's Falstaff!
 
  marvin   
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: MishaK on November 02, 2007, 07:01:38 AM
Quote from: Holden on November 01, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
LvB: Choral Fantasy

That is a very typical work. In fact it's a sketch for the finale for the 9th. The main theme is almost an inversion of the Ode to Joy. The Choral Fantasy is in essence an early exercise for the idea that would later gestate in full in the 9th.

Quote from: Holden on November 01, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
Prokofiev: Classical symphony

Very typical of SP's lyrical, neoclassicist phase (see also Sinfonietta and VC 1).

Quote from: Holden on November 01, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
Bach: Toccata and Fugue in D minor

How so?

Quote from: Holden on November 01, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
Schoenberg: Verklärte Nacht

Again, very typical of his early post-romantic/impressionist phase, just like Pelleas und Melisande and Gurrelieder.
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 02, 2007, 07:25:54 AM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on November 01, 2007, 06:31:22 AM
Atypical in that it is trite.

Does not compute!
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: BachQ on November 02, 2007, 07:27:13 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on November 02, 2007, 06:45:02 AM
Wagner's early piano compositions (the sonata, the transcriptions from various popular operas (those of Halevy etc.) were in no way part of Wagner's artistic output. 

They may not have been part of his "mature" artistic output, but every artist has to begin somewhere ........
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: max on November 02, 2007, 12:08:33 PM
Mozart's Masonic Funeral Music reminds me more of Beethoven and NOT early Beethoven either!
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: johnQpublic on November 02, 2007, 12:14:14 PM
Holst's Woodwind Quintet
Title: Re: Works least typical of a composer
Post by: Maciek on November 04, 2007, 03:29:50 PM
Anything (musicwise) by Nietzche.

Of course, certainly not one of my favorite composer(s) so the answer probably doesn't count... ::)