Would you say this is typical Franck? (excepting the fact that it is a symphony). Do you think the cyclic thing 'works' as a form? Is it really 'incompetence pushed to dogmatic lengths' (Gounod) and as morose as everyone says? Please fill me with your gems of knowledge on this work ;-)
I'm not sure where Gounod found incompetence in this extraordinary work!
I have always found two structural aspects to be especially neat. One is the way the opening of the work repeats itself; the other is the second movement, the first third of which is a slow movement, the middle section is a scherzo, and then the final third is the two separate "movements" played on top of each other!
It's a tremendously fun thing to listen to - very dramatic and filled with great tunes. I love it and have the Monteux-Chicago (amazing) and Benzi-Arnhem (only slightly less amazing) recordings.
Quote from: brianrein on November 12, 2007, 03:45:07 PM
I'm not sure where Gounod found incompetence in this extraordinary work!
I have always found two structural aspects to be especially neat. One is the way the opening of the work repeats itself; the other is the second movement, the first third of which is a slow movement, the middle section is a scherzo, and then the final third is the two separate "movements" played on top of each other!
It's a tremendously fun thing to listen to - very dramatic and filled with great tunes. I love it and have the Monteux-Chicago (amazing) and Benzi-Arnhem (only slightly less amazing) recordings.
The Monteux/CSO version is excellent. But I have recently grown very fond of a 1959 edge-of the seat performance by Sir Adrian Boult (!) conducting the "London Orchestra Society". It's included on the Great Conductors Boult set. It's quite something.
For HIP, there is Herreweghe's recording (coupled with the later version of Faure's Requiem) which has all the virtues of his performance of music from this period.
Quote from: O Mensch on November 12, 2007, 06:50:19 PM
But I have recently grown very fond of a 1959 edge-of the seat performance by Sir Adrian Boult (!) conducting the "London Orchestra Society". It's included on the Great Conductors Boult set. It's quite something.
Confirming.. Boult's recording is great.
Quote from: brianrein on November 12, 2007, 03:45:07 PM
I have always found two structural aspects to be especially neat. One is the way the opening of the work repeats itself....
That's the bit that drives me mad. As an idea, it is perfectly sound, but the Franck carries it out fails, I think. The implication of this transposition is that something monumental and mysterious is heaving under the surface, but there is (it seems to me either) a severe inconsistency with this mystery implied in the fact that the orchestration and every other detail remains
identical. That's just me and my own aesthetics, however...
Quote from: fl.traverso on November 12, 2007, 10:15:45 PM
For HIP, there is Herreweghe's recording (coupled with the later version of Faure's Requiem) which has all the virtues of his performance of music from this period.
Seconded. A really 'open' traversal which lets you hear, in fine detail, everything that's going on. The Faure Requiem is a little more subdued than suits my preference, but is at least in keeping with the composer's intention that his setting should be an intimate one.
Quote from: Mark on November 12, 2007, 11:52:53 PM
The Faure Requiem is a little more subdued than suits my preference, but is at least in keeping with the composer's intention that his setting should be an intimate one.
You may find Gardiner's outgoing recording of Faure more to your taste then! However, Jeggy is never known as meticulous as Herreweghe with orchestral balances and colour.
Quote from: fl.traverso on November 13, 2007, 07:53:30 AM
You may find Gardiner's outgoing recording of Faure more to your taste then! However, Jeggy is never known as meticulous as Herreweghe with orchestral balances and colour.
Thanks. :) Always up for another Faure Requiem. 0:)
Quote from: O Mensch on November 12, 2007, 06:50:19 PM
The Monteux/CSO version is excellent. But I have recently grown very fond of a 1959 edge-of the seat performance by Sir Adrian Boult (!) conducting the "London Orchestra Society". It's included on the Great Conductors Boult set. It's quite something.
I really think that the Monteux is a must hear for anyone interested in this work. Stunning recording in every aspect.
Howard
Quote from: hautbois on November 13, 2007, 08:26:07 AM
I really think that the Monteux is a must hear for anyone interested in this work. Stunning recording in every aspect.
In that case, I may have to check it out. I love the music--played it once in the community orchestra I used to play with--but have seldom heard a really good recording. And I adore Monteux' conducting. :D
Quote from: jochanaan on November 13, 2007, 11:59:03 AM
In that case, I may have to check it out. I love the music--played it once in the community orchestra I used to play with--but have seldom heard a really good recording. And I adore Monteux' conducting. :D
You must love the English horn scoring!
Quote from: D Minor on November 13, 2007, 12:02:20 PM
You must love the English horn scoring!
Definitely a demanding and mostly rewarding part--except where Franck expects us to play a low B
pianissimo. :o
Hah! Even I know better than Franck 0:)
-- Maybe there's supposed to be a basset horn substitution? >:D
Quote from: D Minor on November 13, 2007, 12:02:20 PM
You must love the English horn scoring!
I knew this symphony would draw out D minor's D minor side! :D
Quote from: brianrein on November 13, 2007, 12:40:33 PM
I knew this symphony would draw out D minor's D minor side! :D
My weakness has been exposed :D .........
How about the symphony in relation to cyclic form? And cyclic form in general? Good plan? Good to conceive of work as a whole rather than each individual movement?
Seems a bit ambitious and a bit too much for me.
Quote from: Mystery on November 13, 2007, 02:49:38 PM
How about the symphony in relation to cyclic form? And cyclic form in general? Good plan?
I don't have any objection to cyclic form. It depends what themes are being re-cycled, how they are re-cycled and where in the work it is happening.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 13, 2007, 12:14:13 PM
Hah! Even I know better than Franck 0:)
Yes, after I said something. $:) ;D
Quote from: brianrein on November 13, 2007, 12:40:33 PM
I knew this symphony would draw out D minor's D minor side! :D
No - it only draws out D minor's Dark Side of the Force!