GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: cx on November 14, 2007, 10:14:22 AM

Title: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: cx on November 14, 2007, 10:14:22 AM
1) What is your favorite recording?

I only have the sony Gould and have never felt a need to look further -- interested in others' preferences and any comparisons to Gould's recording.

2) Piano or Harpsichord?

3) What is your favorite Invention and/or Sinfonia?

I'm sure this is a tough (and perhaps useless "ranking") question, as I myself love them all, but I have always had the strongest affinity for the #2 invention and #2 sinfonia (C minor). I think this pair really shows what a great Melodist Bach was.

I come back to these works so often, more so than many other Bach keyboard works, despite many of them being (at least on the surface) less "complex", shorter, and less ambitious than many of his other works.

--CS
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 14, 2007, 10:25:38 AM
I'll just restrict myself to harpsichord recordings.  My preferences:

Kenneth Gilbert/Harmonia Mundi
Gustav Leonhardt/Sony
Blandine Verlet/Naive
Masaaki Suzuki/BIS

The best I've heard is from Bob van Asperen on the Aeolus label.  This one has fantastic dialogue and state of the art sound.  The catalog number is 10034 [78:15].  The reason for the extended length is not any slowness on van Asperen's part; he includes an additional 12 short "exercises" that are most rewarding.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 14, 2007, 10:30:37 AM
On to piano versions:

Excellent ones include Koroliov/Hanssler, P. Serkin/RCA and the Gould that you own.  I don't think that either Hewitt or Schiff make the grade.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Holden on November 14, 2007, 10:42:55 AM
Another vote for Koroliov on Hannsler
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Sean on November 14, 2007, 10:52:38 AM
I bought the Denon recording with a female harpsichordist about 17 years back, highly rated at the time but I forget who it was. Some of Bach's most peculiar musical thought for sure.

I first had a few on moog synthesizer with Walter Donaldson- great stuff, completely possessed.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 14, 2007, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: Sean on November 14, 2007, 10:52:38 AM
I bought the Denon recording with a female harpsichordist about 17 years back, highly rated at the time but I forget who it was. Some of Bach's most peculiar musical thought for sure.

I'll take the bite on this one - what's so peculiar about these pieces?
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Sean on November 14, 2007, 12:36:44 PM
They are! They're well manic, trill infested, exuberant, terse, nothing like them, apart perhaps for the Orgelbuchlein pieces.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 14, 2007, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Sean on November 14, 2007, 12:36:44 PM
They are! They're well manic, trill infested, exuberant, terse, nothing like them, apart perhaps for the Orgelbuchlein pieces.

Well, I'm not convinced.  I find them not very different from what I expect from Bach except that they are not among his most memorable keyboard works.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Sean on November 15, 2007, 01:14:04 AM
Well I find some of these pieces a little unusual, one of the sets is called fantasias anyway I guess, but I'd argue all Bach's keyboard music is a bit didactic.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 02:00:53 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 15, 2007, 01:14:04 AM
Well I find some of these pieces a little unusual, one of the sets is called fantasias anyway I guess, but I'd argue all Bach's keyboard music is a bit didactic.

One set is called Inventions, the other Sinfonias.  I've never heard either referred to as fantasias. 
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: springrite on November 15, 2007, 02:03:48 AM
I have 6 or 7 sets and the Gould remain my favorite. It is currently on a short list of recordings I am considering as the one recording I play for the fetus throughout the last 3 months of Vanessa's pregnancy (starting in Feb.2008).
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: hornteacher on November 15, 2007, 03:17:06 AM
Purists will cringe at this one but Janine Jansen has a great new CD out of all the two and three part inventions transcribed for string trio.  It's marvellous and really gives the music a new angle.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: Don on November 14, 2007, 12:44:37 PM
Well, I'm not convinced.  I find them not very different from what I expect from Bach except that they are not among his most memorable keyboard works.

That's a general miss conception. Those miniatures are among his very best, perfect on a level with their bigger cousin, the WTC, at least in terms of inspiration and craft. The only reason why they seem like minor works is that they were designed to be mid grade teaching tools, so he keeps their difficulty in check.

As for recordings, Kenneth Gilbert is the one i listen to most of the times.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 05:05:57 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 14, 2007, 12:36:44 PM
nothing like them

Still struggling with Bach are we?
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 06:04:41 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 04:59:11 AM
That's a general miss conception. Those miniatures are among his very best, perfectly on a level with their bigger cousin, the WTC, at least in terms of inspiration and craft. The only reason why they seem like minor works is that they were designed to be mid grade teaching tools, so he keeps their difficulty in check.


Makes no difference to me that they were designed as teaching tools.  I just don't hear the very high level of inspiration or emotional breadth found in works such as the Goldbergs and WTC.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 06:09:59 AM
Quote from: hornteacher on November 15, 2007, 03:17:06 AM
Purists will cringe at this one but Janine Jansen has a great new CD out of all the two and three part inventions transcribed for string trio.  It's marvellous and really gives the music a new angle.

I've been looking at this disc at the local Borders where they have about 7 copies on the shelf.  Generally, I'm not a fan of strings taking over for keyboard.  However, your very favorable comments are noted and might give me the push to acquire the disc.  Also, Jansen is high on my list of violinists.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Sean on November 15, 2007, 06:12:23 AM
BWV.565 is one of the best Bach keyboard works, since it's probably not by him.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 06:21:17 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 15, 2007, 06:12:23 AM
BWV.565 is one of the best Bach keyboard works, since it's probably not by him.

Oh, I think it's by Bach.  There isn't any composer of his era who had the ability to write it.

What's with the left-handed compliment to Bach?  It sounds like you don't generally appreciate his music.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Sean on November 15, 2007, 07:46:12 AM
Some thoughts here from a couple of years back; don't worry though, I'm only being hypercritical, I certainly know all the major keyboard works well

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6393.0.html
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: head-case on November 15, 2007, 09:27:52 AM
Quote from: Don on November 15, 2007, 06:04:41 AM
Makes no difference to me that they were designed as teaching tools.  I just don't hear the very high level of inspiration or emotional breadth found in works such as the Goldbergs and WTC.
That's sad for you.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 09:29:16 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 15, 2007, 07:46:12 AM
Some thoughts here from a couple of years back; don't worry though, I'm only being hypercritical, I certainly know all the major keyboard works well

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6393.0.html

I don't share your thoughts.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 09:32:56 AM
Quote from: head-case on November 15, 2007, 09:27:52 AM
That's sad for you.


No, just on target.  I do greatly enjoy listening to the Inventions/Sinfonias, but I don't delude myself into thinking that they represent the best of Bach.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: sidoze on November 15, 2007, 10:25:42 AM
Quote from: head-case on November 15, 2007, 09:27:52 AM
That's sad for you.


QuoteThat's a general miss conception. Those miniatures are among his very best,

what is wrong with people on this forum? Don--and me too for that matter--doesn't hear the same level of inspiration or emotional breadth in them and so it's sad for him and "a general miss conception"? Really, I am glad--like Don I think--that I explore music and interpretations on my own because otherwise I'd be taken in by this muck all day.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: sidoze on November 15, 2007, 10:25:42 AM
what is wrong with people on this forum? Don--and me too for that matter--doesn't hear the same level of inspiration or emotional breadth in them and so it's sad for him and "a general miss conception"? Really, I am glad--like Don I think--that I explore music and interpretations on my own because otherwise I'd be taken in by this muck all day.

The muck does fly around here with regularity, so it's always important to pay attention to one's one counsel.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 15, 2007, 06:12:23 AM
BWV.565 is one of the best Bach keyboard works, since it's probably not by him.

The d minor toccata is far, far from being among his best works. And no, the piece IS by Bach.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 11:56:33 AM
Quote from: Don on November 15, 2007, 06:04:41 AM
I just don't hear the very high level of inspiration or emotional breadth

The inventions and sinfonias are in no way as grand as the WTC, but they are just as highly 'inspired' (at least on a level with the first book) even if they occupy a smaller dimension. They are miles above some his others works (Toccatas for instance), while remaining wholly underneath in terms of scope. There's a difference between a work intended to fill a reduced space as opposed to one that just isn't as well crafted to begin with. You could apply the same concept to Bartok's Microcosmos, which are superior in terms of technique and invention to his early keyboard works but are not meant to be anything more then pedagogical pieces.

Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 11:59:20 AM
Quote from: sidoze on November 15, 2007, 10:25:42 AM
what is wrong with people on this forum? Don--and me too for that matter--doesn't hear the same level of inspiration or emotional breadth in them and so it's sad for him and "a general miss conception"? Really, I am glad--like Don I think--that I explore music and interpretations on my own because otherwise I'd be taken in by this muck all day.

Don't confuse Sean with me. He expressed a distaste for polyphony on many occasions so it's no wonder he would flock to those miniatures, since they employ only two or three parts.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Don on November 15, 2007, 12:11:23 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 15, 2007, 11:56:33 AM
The inventions and sinfonias are in no way as grand as the WTC, but they are just as highly 'inspired' (at least on a level with the first book) even if they occupy a smaller dimension. They are miles above some his others works (Toccatas for instance), while remaining wholly underneath in terms of scope. There's a difference between a work intended to fill a reduced space as opposed to one that just isn't as well crafted to begin with. You could apply the same concept to Bartok's Microcosmos, which are superior in terms of technique and invention to his early keyboard works but are not meant to be anything more then pedagogical pieces.



I'm not going to continue arguing about the Inventions/Sinfonias with a fellow Bach music lover.  We need to stick together and praise the greatest composer ever.  And I don't confuse you with Sean.  Concerning Bach, I don't think Sean has a clue.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: George on December 20, 2010, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: czgirb on December 20, 2010, 04:27:31 PM
What about Inventions & Sinfonias, George? Whose recording you preferred?
I only own Schiff & Gould ... i think their both good.

I am not a big fan of those works, but Gould's performances are excellent.

QuoteOh yes! I wonder why there is no Schiff's WTC recording within USA ... it's a pity.
Regarding to Well-Tempered, I only have Gould (CD), Landowska (LP), Schiff (CD), & Tureck(CD).

Feinberg is probably my favorite. You can sample it over at RussianDVD.com.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: PaulSC on December 20, 2010, 07:31:21 PM
I am a big fan of the Inventions/Sinfonias, and I highly recommend Koroliov on piano and Watchorn on harpsichord.

And Gould on prepared piano.  :P
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Coopmv on December 20, 2010, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 20, 2010, 07:31:21 PM
I am a big fan of the Inventions/Sinfonias, and I highly recommend Koroliov on piano and Watchorn on harpsichord.

And Gould on prepared piano.  :P

I think Ralph Kirkpatrick and Kenneth Gilbert both have excellent recordings of these works ...
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Bulldog on December 21, 2010, 08:34:20 PM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 20, 2010, 07:31:21 PM
I am a big fan of the Inventions/Sinfonias, and I highly recommend Koroliov on piano and Watchorn on harpsichord.

And Gould on prepared piano.  :P

The best I've ever heard is from van Asperen on Aeolus; the dialogue is always compelling, and I love his subtle use of rubato.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: PaulSC on December 21, 2010, 11:01:17 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on December 21, 2010, 08:34:20 PM
The best I've ever heard is from van Asperen on Aeolus; the dialogue is always compelling, and I love his subtle use of rubato.
Thank you for mentioning these, Don. When I was browsing available performances of the Inv/Sinf earlier this year, I skipped right over the Aeolus disc based on its unpromising title/cover. My mistake; van Asperen always deserves consideration, and the performances do seem wonderful based on previews at Amazon. (Besides, "never judge a book by its cover", right?)

Sonically I wish the room weren't so live -- these "lessons" seem to be taking place in the school gymnasium -- but I got used to that within two or three tracks. So many musically persuasive details in these interpretations; for instance, I love the choice of the lute stop for the A minor Invention -- so different from the usual approach to this one.

btw do you have any thoughts on the Korolev WTC 1 I mentioned upthread a bit?
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on December 22, 2010, 03:44:40 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on December 21, 2010, 08:34:20 PM
The best I've ever heard is from van Asperen on Aeolus; the dialogue is always compelling, and I love his subtle use of rubato.

Oh my God!
I know that's the record, which highly recommend by you. I read that it in Bach Cantata.
But the record is impossible to find ... here ... so, wish you can recommend others ... both for Piano and Harpsichord.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Bulldog on December 23, 2010, 08:02:18 AM
Quote from: czgirb on December 22, 2010, 03:44:40 PM
Oh my God!
I know that's the record, which highly recommend by you. I read that it in Bach Cantata.
But the record is impossible to find ... here ... so, wish you can recommend others ... both for Piano and Harpsichord.
Thank you.

Inventions/Sinfonias:

Piano - Koroliov, Gould, Peter Serkin.

Harpsichord - Gilbert, Verlet, Suzuki, Leonhardt, Jaccottet.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 01, 2011, 07:40:02 AM
Just starting to add some additional recordings of these works to my collection; for a number of years I had just one:

Peter Watchorn on harpsichord - which I've enjoyed; his liner notes are superlative! But just added:

Elisabeth Joye also on harpsichord and based on recommendations from Antoine & Don in other threads; I see she does not make Don's list for that instrument here?  Her harpsichord is just so warm & lush - I'd probably recommend this version to those who may not be enthralled w/ this instrument - yesterday I compared my two versions on harpsichord and like both (which one to listen to may be a matter of mood?).

Evgeni Koroliov on piano; just obtained this version, again a recommendation in this forum and in this thread - first listen this morning and am certainly pleased about the purchase - thanks for the suggestion!

So now do I need yet another harpsichord version?  If so, may do a MP3 download - need to see what is available?

I also would be curious if anyone has heard the clavichord version by Richard Troeger?   :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachSinfoniasWatchorn/535883464_jt4oG-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachInventionsJoye/1142439345_GTqDq-O.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachInventionsKoroliov/1143286816_ybEYP-O.jpg)  (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/af/51/025c124128a0500c6c819010.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 01, 2011, 07:54:02 AM
Well, one can never know, of course, what someone might need... but here is what I have in that regard:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/BachJSInventionsJoyecover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/GilbertInventionscoversmall.jpg)

And then this one, which is the only Troeger I have, not inventions:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/Tocattacover-1.jpg)

I like the clavichord, it has a nice homey sound that I imagine to be quite appropriate to old Bach sitting in his rooms working out some polyphony quiz before dinner... :)

8)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Antoine Marchand on January 01, 2011, 08:01:37 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on January 01, 2011, 07:40:02 AM
So now do I need yet another harpsichord version?  If so, may do a MP3 download - need to see what is available?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yHQYjo1oL._SS300_.jpg)

Some months ago I recommended this 40-CD set:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ljXFeza2L._SS300_.jpg)

... then available for 20 bucks; but that's history now.

That box includes 13 discs by Jaccottet: WTC, Goldbergs, English Suites, etc. and, of course, her superb "Inventions and Sinfonias".  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 01, 2011, 08:38:41 AM
Quote from: CS on November 14, 2007, 10:14:22 AM

3) What is your favorite Invention and/or Sinfonia?

I've been playing some of these over the last year, so they're close to my heart (or fingers). Above all I like both the F minors (#9). In particular, Sinfonia #9 is one of Bach's most cosmic-sounding keyboard pieces, with an emotional intensity that sounds proto-Romantic.

Invention/Sinfonia #2 is another good choice...but outside of 2 and 9, the remainder of the set don't cut nearly as deep, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Que on January 01, 2011, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on January 01, 2011, 07:40:02 AM

I also would be curious if anyone has heard the clavichord version by Richard Troeger?   :D

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/af/51/025c124128a0500c6c819010.L.jpg)

I have, Dave, and I wouldn't recommend it. Kinda dull and uneventfull, a lot of legato playing.
I was more postive initially (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,289.msg11213.html#msg11213) but the enthousiam wore off (check premont's comment further down the same page as that linked post).

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 01, 2011, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: Que on January 01, 2011, 11:00:00 AM
I have, Dave, and I wouldn't recommend it. Kinda dull and uneventfull, a lot of legato playing.
I was more postive initially (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,289.msg11213.html#msg11213) but the enthusiasm wore off (check premont's comment further down the same page as that linked post).

Q - thanks for the comments above - seems like Troeger's performance of the Toccatas (as pictured by Gurn) received more positive reviews; Lyrichord offers a $10 download of these offerings (w/ the liner notes as a PDF file) - but will 'hold off' for the moment - Dave  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 02, 2011, 08:32:24 AM
Now listening to these works on a restored clavichord made by Johann Christoph Georg Schiedmayer from 1789 and performed by Jaroslav Tůma, an Antoine recommendation - obtained as an MP3 download from Arta HERE (http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=shop_item&id=F10076&site=en) in the Czech Republic for about $8.  Files now on my iPod and music playing on the den speakers.  This is certainly a 'change of pace' and a nice alternate to my piano & harpsichord versions (and possibly the way Bach play these works?) - the booklet notes in English are on the Arta website (just use the link); will burn a CD-R later -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachSinfoniasTumaWeb/1144524486_D6kdB-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 02, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on January 02, 2011, 08:32:24 AM
(and possibly the way Bach play these works?)

I'm pretty sure Bach had an harpsichord. Really, i don't get the fascination people have for the clavichord. Its just like an harpsichord, except its sounds like shit. Where's the attraction?
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Clever Hans on January 02, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on January 02, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Bach had an harpsichord. Really, i don't get the fascination people have for the clavichord. Its just like an harpsichord, except its sounds like shit. Where's the attraction?

The clavichord has a completely different tangent mechanism and would have been used often for playing and teaching in the household.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 03, 2011, 01:01:28 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on January 02, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Bach had an harpsichord. Really, i don't get the fascination people have for the clavichord. Its just like an harpsichord, except its sounds like shit. Where's the attraction?

I think the point of a clavichord was so that you could play without disturbing the neighbors. Why else would anyone invent such a wimpy instrument?
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 03, 2011, 04:24:03 AM
Quote from: Velimir on January 03, 2011, 01:01:28 AM
I think the point of a clavichord was so that you could play without disturbing the neighbors. Why else would anyone invent such a wimpy instrument?

You might be onto something here.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 03, 2011, 04:55:27 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on January 02, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Bach had an harpsichord. Really, i don't get the fascination people have for the clavichord. Its just like an harpsichord, except its sounds like shit. Where's the attraction?

Actually, it is nothing like a harpsichord, since it has an entirely different mechanism for making its noise (as Hans says above). Also it can do some different sorts of things, like bending notes and play louder or softer, which gives the ability to add a lot more expression than a cembalo can. It is true, however, that they can scarcely generate enough volume to fill up a large room. And they aren't intended for that purpose. When you listen to a recording of one, if you turn it way up to hear it better, you are totally defeating the purpose. If you want loud, listen to a Steinway. :)

8)
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 03, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on January 02, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Bach had an harpsichord. Really, i don't get the fascination people have for the clavichord. Its just like an harpsichord, except its sounds like shit. Where's the attraction?

JS Bach had quite a few keyboard instruments at home, including a number of clavichords - this was an ideal instrument for him in that situation (wife & kids all trying to sleep!), and also for multiple purposes (composing, playing, teaching, etc.).  In fact, there is much support that the clavichord was one of his favorite keyboard instruments - see the attached PDF file (a nice essay by Miklos Spanyi) which supports Papa Bach's love for this 'wimpy instrument.'

Gurn has already given a brief explanation of the differences between the harpsichord and clavichord - the Wiki Article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavichord) provides further details on the history and the mechanisms of this fascinating keyboard option for those interested and w/ a curiosity to understand the development of the keyboards from the past - Bach is indeed considered a master of the clavichord!  Also, checkout the the visit by Charles Burney to CPE Bach HERE (http://www.bavington.nildram.co.uk/bachaydn.htm); Burney was amazed at CPE's facility w/ this instrument (and this was the latter half of the 18th century) - NOW, Carl PE must have had a rather GOOD 'role model', do you think?

For those who do have an interest in the clavichord, please enjoy these links and essay - just a googling of clavichord will birng up plenty of links to a number of societies, recordings, and even sales pitches - this is an instrument making a COMEBACK and should not be neglected by poorly informed WIMPS!  ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 03, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on January 03, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
In fact, there is much support that the clavichord was one of his favorite keyboard instruments

Yeah, of the three keyboard instruments available to him at the time, the clavichord came third. Some evidence. Far more compelling would have been to prove that any of his major compositions were written specifically for the clavichord, which obviously they are not. Considering the genesis of his musical style, it is apparent why he had no interest in the instrument. 

Quote from: SonicMan on January 03, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
Also, checkout the the visit by Charles Burney to CPE Bach HERE (http://www.bavington.nildram.co.uk/bachaydn.htm); Burney was amazed at CPE's facility w/ this instrument (and this was the latter half of the 18th century) - NOW, Carl PE must have had a rather GOOD 'role model', do you think?

I'm pretty sure there is nothing special about learning to play a clavichord if you are already a virtuoso on the harpsichord. The two instruments are virtually identical, regardless of the underlying mechanism by which they produce their sound. The clavichord is to an harpsichord what a plastic flute is to a real traverso. Its a toy instrument, something used for private practice and nothing more.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Scarpia on January 03, 2011, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on January 03, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
Yeah, of three keyboard instruments available to him at the time, the clavichord game third. Some evidence. Far more compelling would have been to prove that any of his major compositions were written specifically for the clavichord, which obviously they are not. Considering the genesis of his musical style, it is apparent why he had no interest in the instrument. 

I'm pretty sure there is nothing special about learning to play a clavichord if you are already a virtuoso on the harpsichord. The two instruments are virtually identical, regardless of the underlying mechanism by which they produce their sound. The clavichord is to an harpsichord what a plastic flute is a to a real traverso. Its a toy instrument, something used for private practice and nothing more.

By and large, people listen to Bach performed on clavichord because they like the sound of the clavichord, not because they make any claims that it is superior to the harpsichord, or because they believe it was Bach's favorite instrument, etc.  Evidently you don't like the sound of the clavichord.  Then don't listen to recordings of the clavichord, and give this nonsense a rest.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on January 12, 2011, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: Don on November 14, 2007, 10:25:38 AM
I'll just restrict myself to harpsichord recordings.  My preferences:

Kenneth Gilbert/Harmonia Mundi
Gustav Leonhardt/Sony
Blandine Verlet/Naive
Masaaki Suzuki/BIS

The best I've heard is from Bob van Asperen on the Aeolus label.  This one has fantastic dialogue and state of the art sound.  The catalog number is 10034 [78:15].  The reason for the extended length is not any slowness on van Asperen's part; he includes an additional 12 short "exercises" that are most rewarding.

Dear Don, you said Kenneth Gilbert on Harmonia Mundi ??? But I found nothing. (Bach Cantata)
Please do a pleasure for me by showing me it's Cover ...
Thank you.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: PaulSC on January 12, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
Could Don have meant DG? That's the only Gilbert Inv/Sinf recording I know of.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on January 13, 2011, 05:42:14 PM
Maybe ... that's the only Gilbert's Inventions I found yesterday.
But ... Don mention the records not just once ... that's why I'm asking this.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 13, 2011, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: PaulSC on January 12, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
Could Don have meant DG? That's the only Gilbert Inv/Sinf recording I know of.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/GilbertInventionscoversmall.jpg)

Your call. I posted this on the previous page. Some people call Archiv 'DG', many call it Archiv. However, I don't know of another one than this... :-\

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Talich Quartet \ Karel Rehak (Viola) - K 581 Quintet in A for Clarinet & Strings 4th mvmt - Allegretto con variazioni
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: Bulldog on January 13, 2011, 10:58:09 PM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 13, 2011, 06:05:22 PM
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/GilbertInventionscoversmall.jpg)

Your call. I posted this on the previous page. Some people call Archiv 'DG', many call it Archiv. However, I don't know of another one than this... :-\

8)

Yes, that's the one.  Sorry for any confusion.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on January 13, 2011, 11:41:18 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on January 13, 2011, 10:58:09 PM
Yes, that's the one.  Sorry for any confusion.

No need to say sorry ... thank you for the explanation.
Thank you ... but the CD is hard to find here.
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on January 13, 2011, 11:57:09 PM
Quote from: Don on November 14, 2007, 10:25:38 AM
Kenneth Gilbert/Harmonia Mundi
Gustav Leonhardt/Sony
Blandine Verlet/Naive
Masaaki Suzuki/BIS

How about Elisabeth Joyé ???
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: PaulSC on January 14, 2011, 12:04:14 AM
Joyé's only recording of the Inv/Sinf is on the Alpha label.


[asin]B000088SU7[/asin]
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: czgirb on January 14, 2011, 12:08:53 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on January 14, 2011, 12:04:14 AM
Joyé's only recording of the Inv/Sinf is on the Alpha label.
[asin]B000088SU7[/asin]

Yup! What your opinion about it? Is it good? Have any review of it?
Thanx
Title: Re: Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 14, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
Quote from: czgirb on January 14, 2011, 12:08:53 AM
Yup! What your opinion about it? Is it good? Have any review of it?
Thanx

Check reply #35 on the previous page of this thread - a short review quoted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=89860) from BBC Magazine - :D