I was on a big Requiem kick not too long ago, so now I'd like to explore some "regular" masses. Am looking for things primarily from prior to 1900. Any recommendations?
I already have:
Bach Mass in B-Minor: Gardiner
Beethoven Missa Solemnis: Klemperer and Harnoncourt
Haydn, final six masses (esp. the Nelson Mass in d minor)
Hummel, Missa Solemnis; Mass in d minor
Bruckner, Mass in f minor
Mozart, Great Mass
As mentioned, the Stravinsky Mass
Janáček, Glagolitic Mass
Wuorinen, Mass for the Restoration of St Luke's
de Victoria, Missa O magnum mysterium
Quote from: karlhenning on December 07, 2007, 07:33:36 AM
As mentioned, the Stravinsky Mass of 1948
Janáček, Glagolitic Mass of 1914
Wuorinen, Mass for the Restoration of St Luke's
de Victoria, Missa O magnum mysterium
OP specifies "prior to 1900"
Quote from: D Minor on December 07, 2007, 07:42:07 AM
OP specifies "prior to 1900"
In which case . . . disregard all mine apart from the Renaissance item . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on December 07, 2007, 07:46:09 AM
In which case . . . disregard all mine apart from the Renaissance item . . . .
Not bad,
Karl ...... only 75% of your recommendations get tossed ........
To add with Mozart's Great C minor mass, the "Coronation" mass really is a "must-have".
I second Haydn and Bruckner (his final three are very major - the last one is more of a concert work, though).
Schubert has some very high quality masses, which are not very well known relative to the rest of his output. A similar era one is Cherubini's Missa Solemnis. Berlioz's Messe Solennelle is very good, despite being only a recent discovery.
Thanks so far. This is a great way to get started on what to get, what to save for later, etc.
I know I'm leaving all sorts of stuff out by saying "pre-1900," but I've found as I explore new-to-me styles that I generally come to the 20th Century stuff last. I do have the Stravinsky pieces (just got the Stravinsky Box a few weeks ago), but, really, I find myself learning the style better when I go chronologically. :)
Quote from: D Minor on December 07, 2007, 07:12:15 AM
Haydn, final six masses (esp. the Nelson Mass in d minor)
Hmmm . . .
that was unexpected :D
Quote from: James on December 07, 2007, 07:08:12 AM
Palestrina's beautiful christmas mass missa hodie christus natus est
This must be a beauty (wonder if I have it at home . . . ?)
Palestrina, Missa Papae Marcelli
Quote from: gmstudio on December 07, 2007, 09:50:19 AM
but, really, I find myself learning the style better when I go chronologically. :)
Then you may want to start with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1197086933&sr=1-1
It's the first unified mass cycle ever written and the one that started the trend in the first place.
Some have been mentioned, but just consider the repeated ones a priority. 8)
Haydn Mass in Time of War (Paukenmesse or Kettledrum Mass)
Haydn Nelson Mass (Missa in Augustiis)
Haydn Missa Sancti Bernardi von Offida
Mozart Mass in C major "Coronation" K. 317
Mozart Mass in Major K. 167
I have yet to hear a Schubert Mass that doesn't hit the spot
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 07, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
Then you may want to start with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1197086933&sr=1-1
It's the first unified mass cycle ever written and the one that started the trend in the first place.
Happened across it at the library today, just by chance.
My take:
Bach b minor: for the contrapuntal genius and extraordinary structure.
Haydn Missa cellensis (St-Cecilia Mass): for a unique 'bridge' between the old style and the classical. The Kyrie is made-in-Heaven stuff. And or fourse the late 'big 6' masses, esp. Nelson, Pauken, Schöpfung, Harmonie and Theresien masses.
Mozart: the Great c minor Mass, for its extraordinarily beautiful melodies, esp. those of the soprano arias and duets. The beginning of the Credo is uniquely springy and infectious.
Beethoven: the Missa solemnis, for its unique Benedictus. The Agnus is extraordinary, too, but here the Haydn influence is obvious (Nelson Mass).
Schubert: the seraphically serene D. 950. A look back at the Old Masters (Bach and Haydn more than Mozart).
Bruckner: the f minor Mass (no. 3). Gloriously scented music. Very inward looking, as different from Beethoven's 'public' Mass as could be.
Janacek (he said primarily pre-1900 :D). Easily the wackiest, most colourful, zany and utterly exhilarating religious music ever penned.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 07, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
Then you may want to start with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1197086933&sr=1-1
Even if the provocative shouting Peres interpretation is captivating on its own terms, I find it too special for a newcomer to this work, and I would suggest some other recordings like Clemencic (Arte Nova) or Parrott (EMI).
Quote from: premont on December 09, 2007, 07:43:34 AM
Even if the provocative shouting Peres interpretation is captivating on its own terms, I find it too special for a newcomer to this work, and I would suggest some other recordings like Clemencic (Arte Nova) or Parrott (EMI).
Agreed. Machaut doesn't have to sound like a Corsican fisherman. ;)
There are some Corsican fishermen here want a word with you . . . .
....I've tried to explain that you meant singing not sister but alas...
(http://pagesperso-orange.fr/algoric/img/imgDessin/imgBD/AsterixCorseSoeur2.jpg)
Quote from: Drasko on December 09, 2007, 10:27:27 AM
....I've tried to explain that you meant singing not sister but alas...
So long as they had their word with you instead I don't think I really care.... ;D
Quote from: premont on December 09, 2007, 07:43:34 AM
Even if the provocative shouting Peres interpretation is captivating on its own terms, I find it too special for a newcomer to this work, and I would suggest some other recordings like Clemencic (Arte Nova) or Parrott (EMI).
Regardless, I've really been enjoying this recording.
Quote from: gmstudio on December 09, 2007, 12:05:10 PM
Regardless, I've really been enjoying this recording.
So have I, but I still think, you ought to listen to other recordings of this Mass.
Quote from: premont on December 09, 2007, 12:30:17 PM
So have I, but I still think, you ought to listen to other recordings of this Mass.
Noted. I'll keep my eyes out for another version...
Some personal suggestions:
DUFAY: Mass "Se la face ay Pale" / Mass "Ecce Ancilla Domini" / Mass "L'Homme Armé"
OBRECHT: Mass "Maria Zart"
PALESTRINA: Masses "Viri Galilei", "Assumpta est Maria"
BYRD: Masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices
CHARPENTIER: Mass "Assumpta est Maria"
JS BACH: Mass in B minor
HAYDN: The 6 Great Masses
BEETHOVEN: Mass opus 86 and the Missa Solemnis
SCHUBERT: Mass D 950
JANACEK: Glagolitic Mass
STRAVINSKY: Mass
Quote from: val on December 10, 2007, 04:16:13 AM
Some personal suggestions:
DUFAY: Mass "Se la face ay Pale" / Mass "Ecce Ancilla Domini" / Mass "L'Homme Armé"
OBRECHT: Mass "Maria Zart"
PALESTRINA: Masses "Viri Galilei", "Assumpta est Maria"
BYRD: Masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices
CHARPENTIER: Mass "Assumpta est Maria"
JS BACH: Mass in B minor
HAYDN: The 6 Great Masses
BEETHOVEN: Mass opus 86 and the Missa Solemnis
SCHUBERT: Mass D 950
JANACEK: Glagolitic Mass
STRAVINSKY: Mass
Good suggestions there...
For Charpentier, I think his most famous
Messe de minuit pour Noël should be mentioned.
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 09, 2007, 10:01:03 AM
Agreed. Machaut doesn't have to sound like a Corsican fisherman. ;)
I found a recording by Alfred Deller...never heard of him, but I'll give it a listen later this week...
Quote from: premont on December 09, 2007, 07:43:34 AM
Even if the provocative shouting Peres interpretation is captivating on its own terms, I find it too special for a newcomer to this work, and I would suggest some other recordings like Clemencic (Arte Nova) or Parrott (EMI).
Peres is the greater artist, and that's the best introduction anybody needs.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 11, 2007, 05:08:51 PM
Peres is the greater artist, and that's the best introduction anybody needs.
Disagreed as to who's greater here. I'd say Clemencic is better. :)
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 11, 2007, 10:45:53 PM
Disagreed as to who's greater here. I'd say Clemencic is better. :)
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Peres&word2=Clemencic
I win.
Lots of good recommendations here. Let me add a fine record off the beaten patch.
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDA67510.jpg)
Has nobody mentioned Brahms mighty mass?
The heading does ask us to exclude Requiems.
The Bruckner Mass in F minor is very beautiful and dramatic, in parts it is like one of his symphonies set to voices. There are some very beautiful vocal lines and it is a passionate piece. The Corydon Singers version under Matthew Best is excellent. Here is a link with some samples.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Sacred-Choral-Works-Anton/dp/B000002ZRG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1197794197&sr=1-6
Mike
Quote from: knight on December 15, 2007, 11:38:17 PM
The heading does ask us to exclude Requiems.
Well yes - somehow I don't think of Brahms A German Requiem as a Requiem because of its choice of texts. But of course you are right. And the Michael Haydns Mass anyway is mighty fine and deserves a place beside those of his brother.
You are right of course, the Brahms is a mile away from liturgy. I had assumed the reason to avoid the Requiem was perhaps to avoid the somber. Having said that; the Bruckner is not exactly a bouncy piece.
Mike
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 07, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
Then you may want to start with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1197086933&sr=1-1
It's the first unified mass cycle ever written and the one that started the trend in the first place.
Although the Peres recording is one of my all time favorite CDs I agree with other posters that another perspective is helpful here. The Hilliard Ensemble works just fine. In defense of the Peres, however, the inclusion of the Proper makes for a more liturgically correct and fascinating listen.
If you really want to go chronologically then the Tournai Mass...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Messe-Tournai-Ensemble-Organum/dp/B000FDFO2G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1198149834&sr=1-3
...is also a recording worth checking. Note that this was not composed as a "mass cycle" but is a collection of musically distinct settings of the Ordinary. Prior to the Tournai mass the settings were all grouped together i.e. all Kyries, all Credos, Gloria etc within a Codex (the Liber Usualis that provides the chants for the Mass Ordinary is like this). The Tournai codex suggests a mass setting picked from a variety of sources and intended to be performed as a cycle. There are other examples from Barcelona and Toulouse but I don't think these have been recorded, someone might be able to correct me on this.
How many have you amassed so far?
Personally, I would ignore anything before 1750 and advise you to try Cherubini.
He wrote masses of them ;D
Quote from: erato on December 15, 2007, 11:54:38 PM
Well yes - somehow I don't think of Brahms A German Requiem as a Requiem because of its choice of texts.
Isn't that pretty much the only difference?
Quote from: Hector on December 20, 2007, 05:55:06 AM
How many have you amassed so far?
He wrote masses of them ;D
:P
And yet, he didn't write for the masses, did he?
Nor did he write one critical Mass.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on December 20, 2007, 05:59:08 PM
And yet, he didn't write for the masses, did he?
But he did, they flocked to his masses. Masses of them. ;D
Oh, stop it Hector.
I have over many years acquired a taste for the choral works of Brahms, particularly the Alto Rhapsody and Rinaldo (I almost put Ronaldo - devil, me >:D).
Berlioz' 'Le Damnation de Faust.'
Schumann's 'Scenes from Goethe's Faust.'
Verdi's 'Four Sacred Pieces.'
Dvorak:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EFEWEEKDL._AA240_.jpg)
Howard