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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: MN Dave on December 10, 2007, 07:19:50 AM

Title: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 10, 2007, 07:19:50 AM
I know this is hard for some of you to fathom, but if someone wanted a balanced, satisfying collection of Beethoven without too many multiple recordings—no more than two or three of each work—and not including unessential works, what would you recommend as a solid collection of in-print recordings? Please include any tips on accumulating them.

I'm curious to see what you come up with.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Don Isler on December 10, 2007, 07:25:21 AM
Well, I think I'd get:

Piano Sonatas played by Schnabel and/or Hungerford,

Symphonies with Furtwaengler,

Violin Sonatas with Pamela and Claude Frank,

Piano Concerti with Fleisher, and

The complete String Quartets with the Amadeus Quartet.

I would think that most, or all of the above would be currently in print.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: ChamberNut on December 10, 2007, 07:44:25 AM
Complete String Quartets - Quartetto Italiano

Complete Piano Trios - Beaux Arts Trio

Complete Symphonies - Nikolaus Harnoncourt and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe

Complete Piano Sonatas - Daniel Baremboim

Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Todd on December 10, 2007, 08:32:17 AM
Piano Sonatas: Annie Fischer, Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo), Wilhelm Kempff (mono, DG)

String Quartets: Vegh (Valois); Budapest (mono, United Archives)

Symphonies: Abbado (w/ BPO); Toscanini (RCA)

Piano Concertos: Bronfman / Zinman (Arte Nova); Sherman / Neumann (Vanguard, may not be to all tastes)

Violin Sonatas: Francescatti / Casadesus (CBS/Sony); Haskil / Grumiaux (Philips or Brilliant Classics); Frank / Frank (Music Masters)

Cello Sonatas: Kempff / Fournier (DG); Schiff / Perenyi (ECM)

Piano Trios: Beaux Arts Trio (analog cycle if you can get it, otherwise digital)

Violin Concerto: Ferras / Karajan (DG)

Missa Solemnis: Klemperer (EMI); Schermerhorn (Naxos)


Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Holden on December 10, 2007, 11:23:34 AM
Symphonies - Cluytens or Szell

Piano Sonatas - Annie Fischer or Kempff or Barenboim

Violin Sonatas - Grumiaux/Haskil or Perlman/Ashkenazy

Cello Sonatas - Richter/Rostropovich

Piano Concertos - Perahia/Haitink or Rubinstein/Krips

Piano Variations - Brendel (VOX)

Overtures - Szell/Cleveland

Violin Concerto - Francescatti/Walter

String Quartets - Alban Berg or Italiano Qts

Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 10, 2007, 12:31:37 PM
Quote from: Todd on December 10, 2007, 08:32:17 AM
Piano Sonatas: Annie Fischer

Symphonies: Abbado (w/ BPO)

Piano Concertos: Bronfman / Zinman (Arte Nova); Sherman / Neumann (Vanguard)

Violin Sonatas: Haskil / Grumiaux (Philips or Brilliant Classics)


I'll happily go along with all of these, but will add that for the Symphonies, you might also want to consider one of the following:


Karajan - '63 or '77 cycles (both on DG)

Abbado - His DG cycle with the VPO from the mid-to-late '80s is a real contrast to his later BPO cycle



You might also want to at least hear:


Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden - Fifth Symphony - Brilliant Classics

Davis (C)/Staatskapelle Dresden - 'Pastoral' Symphony (No. 6) - Philips

Masur/Gewandhaus Leipzig - 'Pastoral' Symphony (No. 6) - Philips, Pentatone or Brilliant Classics

Rattle/VPO - 'Choral Symphony (No. 9) - EMI

Herreweghe/Champs-Elysees Orchestra - 'Choral Symphony (No. 9) - Harmonia Mundi
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: George on December 10, 2007, 01:07:58 PM
Sonatas - Annie Fischer, Gulda (Brilliant), Gilels (DG)

Symphonies - HvK '63, Szell, Barenboim

SQ - Vegh (stereo), Italiano

Cello Sonatas - Richer/Rostropovich

Violin Sonatas -  Francescatti/Casadesus

Piano Concertos - Sherman/Nuemann, Serkin/Bernstein/Ormandy
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 10, 2007, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: George on December 10, 2007, 01:07:58 PM
Symphonies - Barenboim

Apologies, George, but ... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :o
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: George on December 10, 2007, 02:03:18 PM
Quote from: Mark on December 10, 2007, 01:17:18 PM
Apologies, George, but ... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :o

:P
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: hornteacher on December 10, 2007, 03:05:04 PM
My personal choices (all of which can be purchased as sets) -

Symphonies - Mackerras/Royal Liverpool

Piano Concertos - Bronfman

Piano Sonatas - O'Connor

Quartets - Tackas

Violin Concerto (1 CD) - Hahn

Overtures (1 CD) - Zinman
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: BorisG on December 10, 2007, 03:12:32 PM
Symphonies - 1977 Karajan (newest remastering)
Overtures - Szell
Piano Concertos - Ashkenazy/Solti
Violin Concerto - Mutter
Piano Sonatas - Gulda (Brilliant Classics)
String Quartets - Takacs
Piano Trios - Istomin/Rose/Stern
Violin Sonatas - Stern/Istomin
Cello Sonatas - Gastinel/Guy
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 10, 2007, 03:17:27 PM
Quote from: hornteacher on December 10, 2007, 03:05:04 PM
Symphonies - Mackerras/Royal Liverpool

Forgot to give these the praise they deserve. Excellent cycle. :)
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on December 10, 2007, 06:33:36 PM
Symphonies: Kletzki or cobbled bits of Wand, Sawallisch, Tennstedt

Piano sonatas: Gilels or Goode

String quartets: Vegh (stereo) or cobbled bits of Vlach, Hollywood, Takacs, and Hagen

Cello sonatas: Rostropovich/Richter or Gastinel/Guy

Violin sonatas: Grumiaux/Haskil or Kremer/Argerich

Piano trios: Parnassus Trio or Beaux Arts

Piano concertos: Katchen/Gamba

Violin concerto: Suk/Boult or Kyung-Wha Chung/Tennstedt

Missa Solemnis: Jochum/Concertgebouw

Fidelio: Haitink or Mackerras




Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 10, 2007, 10:56:38 PM
Quote from: donwyn on December 10, 2007, 06:33:36 PM
Piano sonatas: Goode

Violin sonatas: Kremer/Argerich

More superb choices, the Kremer Argerich in particular. ;)
Title: Mark .....
Post by: alkan on December 11, 2007, 02:37:50 AM
Sorry to hear about your drastic choice of taking a GMG sabbatical leave for 3 months.  :o    I always enjoy your posts.     Does it have to be "all or nothing" ?   Why not go for something a little less drastic, so that you keep posting, but spend less time on it ?     

Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 11, 2007, 04:18:33 AM
Quote from: alkan on December 11, 2007, 02:37:50 AM
Sorry to hear about your drastic choice of taking a GMG sabbatical leave for 3 months.  :o    I always enjoy your posts.     Does it have to be "all or nothing" ?   Why not go for something a little less drastic, so that you keep posting, but spend less time on it ?     



Why, thank you. :)

I'll still be popping back from time to time. And while I probably won't be posting much for a while, I'll certainly be checking in ... in case you f&*@@ers are saying something rotten about me. ;D
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 11, 2007, 05:19:50 AM
This is more what I own than what I'd recommend:

Piano Sonatas: Schnabel; Arrau

String Quartets: Talich

Symphonies: Various, but if I went for a box right now it would be Wand

Piano Concertos: Fleisher/Szell

Cello Sonatas: Kempff / Fournier

Piano Trios: Ashkenazy, et al

Violin Concerto: Grumiaux

Missa Solemnis: Bernstein
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: BorisG on December 11, 2007, 07:25:45 PM
Quote from: Mark on December 10, 2007, 10:56:38 PM
More superb choices, the Kremer Argerich in particular. ;)

Their 4 & 5 are heavenly, but the set is a tough swallow. :P
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Bogey on December 11, 2007, 08:41:03 PM
Ones that I would hate to be without, and please note the wind music....wonderful stuff:

Symphonies HvK/BPO (DG '63)

SQ's Végh String Quartet (Naive-Stereo)

Piano Sonatas Kempff (DG-Stereo) (Many prefer the mono)

Cello Sonatas Casals/Horszowski (Pearl)

Violin Sonatas Kremer/Argerich (DG)

Chamber Music for Winds Consortium Classicum (CPO)

Piano Trios Beaux Arts Trio (Philips)

Choral Fantasy Harnoncourt/COE (Warner Classics)-Just maybe my favorite Beethoven recording on the shelf.

Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on December 11, 2007, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: Mark on December 10, 2007, 10:56:38 PM
More superb choices, the Kremer Argerich in particular. ;)

Thanks, Mark!



Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Mark on December 11, 2007, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: BorisG on December 11, 2007, 07:25:45 PM
Their 4 & 5 are heavenly, but the set is a tough swallow. :P

What you perhaps hear as 'shallow', others hear as lightly worn? I'm thinking particularly of the earlier Sonatas, which this pairing bring off beautifully without any hint of heavy-handedness or over-indulgence.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2007, 02:09:26 AM
Piano Sonatas: Brautigam on BIS
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: ChamberNut on December 12, 2007, 04:11:25 AM
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2007, 08:41:03 PM
Choral Fantasy Harnoncourt/COE (Warner Classics)-Just maybe my favorite Beethoven recording on the shelf.

Bogey, I have this one too and really enjoy it.  It also includes the Triple Concerto.  I'm a big fan of Harnoncourt.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Bogey on December 12, 2007, 04:22:58 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on December 12, 2007, 04:11:25 AM
Bogey, I have this one too and really enjoy it.  It also includes the Triple Concerto.  I'm a big fan of Harnoncourt.

It's a beauty for sure.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:33:48 AM
Anyone familiar with this set? 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QNOg7HZnL._AA240_.jpg)

It's only $18 on Amazon.  I've been collecting boxes of the Beethoven Symphonies recently and was wondering if it's worthwhile or not?   (Sets I currently have:  Szell, Muti, Karajan (60's), Norrington, Gardiner)
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:38:53 AM
Quote from: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:33:48 AM
Anyone familiar with this set? 

It's only $18 on Amazon.  I've been collecting boxes of the Beethoven Symphonies recently and was wondering if it's worthwhile or not?   (Sets I currently have:  Szell, Muti, Karajan (60's), Norrington, Gardiner)

Holden recommends it above.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:40:37 AM
Quote from: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:38:53 AM
Holden recommends it above.

My thread-skimming skills suck...apologies.  :-[
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:40:53 AM
Todd,

Is the Gulda the same as the set on Brilliant?
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:41:14 AM
Quote from: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:40:37 AM
My thread-skimming skills suck...apologies.  :-[

No problem.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: George on December 12, 2007, 05:49:43 AM
Quote from: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:40:53 AM
Todd,

Is the Gulda the same as the set on Brilliant?

Same performance, though I have read the transfer is better on Brilliant.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: MN Dave on December 12, 2007, 05:51:16 AM
Quote from: George on December 12, 2007, 05:49:43 AM
Same performance, though I have read the transfer is better on Brilliant.

Thanks, George. Good news.
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: jwinter on December 12, 2007, 06:10:38 AM
Quote from: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:33:48 AM
Anyone familiar with this set? 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QNOg7HZnL._AA240_.jpg)

It's only $18 on Amazon.  I've been collecting boxes of the Beethoven Symphonies recently and was wondering if it's worthwhile or not?   (Sets I currently have:  Szell, Muti, Karajan (60's), Norrington, Gardiner)

I think it's well worth your time.  It's the same orchestra as the famous Karajan, and recorded about the same time, so it's interesting to contrast & compare.  Very nice in it's own right, too.

I think a set from Vienna would compliment what you have nicely.  For an economical and easy on shelf-space intro, the Schmidt-Isserstedt/WP set of the symphonies & concerti is excellent -- the piano concerti with Backhaus are really superb.  Personally I like Karl Bohm with the same orchestra a bit more in the symphonies (his last 9th, while very slow, is my all-time favorite), but S-I is very refined, if a little mellow in spots.  Avoid Rattle -- very stilted, undercooked interpretations, not at all convincing IMO.  Bernstein/WP is very good, though not a top choice other than his 7th IMO.  I haven't heard Abbado/WP, although his Berlin CD set is pretty good, and the BPO DVD set from Rome is outstanding -- that's definitely what I would recommend if you're looking for DVDs.

For piano, my top overall choice is probably Gilels, and if I were looking for my first complete sonata set on a budget I'd go for Gulda on Brilliant.  Hard to imagine being truly satisfied with just one, though...

Hope that helps!  :)
Title: Re: Collecting Beethoven
Post by: Holden on December 12, 2007, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: gmstudio on December 12, 2007, 05:33:48 AM
Anyone familiar with this set? 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QNOg7HZnL._AA240_.jpg)

It's only $18 on Amazon.  I've been collecting boxes of the Beethoven Symphonies recently and was wondering if it's worthwhile or not?   (Sets I currently have:  Szell, Muti, Karajan (60's), Norrington, Gardiner)

This is the set I imprinted on in the LP era and when it finally came out on CD I was not disappointed (my ears did not deceive me) to hear it again. While no set is perfect, it is a very recommendable overall. The weaker works in the set are the 5th and 3rd IMO but they are still good interpretations. The top performance is a Pastoral to rival Bruno Walter - indeed they are very similar. An old fashioned but very well crafted 9th with excellent soloists is also a good recommendation. I also enjoyed the 7th, 4th and especially the 2nd. If the overtures come with this set then that's good news too.