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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Zhiliang on December 27, 2007, 08:46:07 AM

Title: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Zhiliang on December 27, 2007, 08:46:07 AM
Hi,

I need help in some recommendations of great recordings for these 2 pieces.

1. Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 - I already have Li Yundi and Ashkenazy's recordings.

2. Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28 -  I already have Melnikov's recording.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,

Zhiliang
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: MichaelRabin on December 27, 2007, 01:21:34 PM
Kun Woo Paik on Naxos for the Prokofiev PC 2.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: not edward on December 27, 2007, 02:49:17 PM
I think most recordings of the Prokofiev don't dig particularly deep. The two I've heard that do are Baloghova (with Ancerl and the Czech Philharmonic) and Browning (with Leinsdorf and the Boston Symphony).
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: BorisG on December 27, 2007, 03:05:12 PM
Quote from: Zhiliang on December 27, 2007, 08:46:07 AM
Hi,

I need help in some recommendations of great recordings for these 2 pieces.

1. Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 - I already have Li Yundi and Ashkenazy's recordings.

2. Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28 -  I already have Melnikov's recording.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,

Zhiliang

Demidenko, Paik, for Prokofiev.
For Scriabin, Richter, Sofronitsky, Berman, Hamelin, and Glemser. Glemser is the surprising darkhorse here, so do not spend a lot of money on the others.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on December 28, 2007, 11:38:54 AM
Quote from: edward on December 27, 2007, 02:49:17 PM
I think most recordings of the Prokofiev don't dig particularly deep. The two I've heard that do are Baloghova (with Ancerl and the Czech Philharmonic) and Browning (with Leinsdorf and the Boston Symphony).

That is my feeling too, and I also think your choices are among the best. Demidenko is very good too, but compared to his last minute appearance--in place of the perennially elusive Volodos--at the RFH a few years ago, I can't listen to the recording without wishing for the live one again. Speaking of Volodos, he might be my first choice -- bootlegs exist, I have one somewhere (not sure where!). Also love the radio recording of Ugorski and his exceptionally introspective coda.

Why are people mentioning Paik?  ???
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Daverz on December 28, 2007, 11:55:39 AM
Has anyone heard Henriot-Schweitzer/Munch (http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1214760)?

Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: bassio on December 29, 2007, 04:37:32 PM
I guess this one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exIpzxq-2_I
will put an end to all.

But, alas, where does one find this particular recording. I guess it was (and will) never be published.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on December 29, 2007, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: bassio on December 29, 2007, 04:37:32 PM
But, alas, where does one find this particular recording. I guess it was (and will) never be published.

Don't know if this is the same as the Youtube, but look here. (http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Five-Concertos-Sergey/dp/B0006Q2TL6/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1198980781&sr=1-11)

I have the set and enjoy it very much.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F3NTCJBQL._SS400_.jpg)


Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Moldyoldie on December 30, 2007, 03:29:15 AM
The Prokofiev No. 2 is a personal favorite, I love the two recordings I have:

Gutiérrez/Järvi/RCO/Chandos
Paik/Wit/PNRSO/Naxos
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on December 30, 2007, 03:54:03 AM
I bought the El Bacha set the day it came out -- was very excited given how he played at the QEC all those years ago. Unfortunately it didn't live up to expectations. It's a good set, played well, but honestly there's nothing to distinguish it either in subtlety, insight or virtuosity. I remember that Arrau predicted a great career for this pianist but so far he hasn't quite lived up to it (his Chopin is better than the Prokofiev IMO, but same applies).

The QEC YouTube performance quoted above is available in the big 10 or 15 CD box of the competition. Not sure where to buy it though.


QuoteHas anyone heard Henriot-Schweitzer/Munch?

never heard of the pianist
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Zhiliang on December 30, 2007, 06:44:37 AM
Quote from: moldyoldie on December 30, 2007, 03:29:15 AM
The Prokofiev No. 2 is a personal favorite, I love the two recordings I have:

Gutiérrez/Järvi/RCO/Chandos
Paik/Wit/PNRSO/Naxos

How was the Gutiérrez's version? I heard good things about it.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Don on December 30, 2007, 07:05:53 AM
Quote from: sidoze on December 30, 2007, 03:54:03 AM
I bought the El Bacha set the day it came out -- was very excited given how he played at the QEC all those years ago. Unfortunately it didn't live up to expectations.

Why the high expectations?  If I remember right, I have some Schumann and Chopin by the man, and he wasn't very inspiring.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on December 30, 2007, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: Don on December 30, 2007, 07:05:53 AM
Why the high expectations?  If I remember right, I have some Schumann and Chopin by the man, and he wasn't very inspiring.

I agree about the not inspiring part, but the Youtube video of the Prokofiev PC 2 above--which I think earned him first prize at the QEC--is a very strong performance for someone just 19 (or so). Years ago he also earned an award for an all-Prokofiev recording of early pieces. So I was expecting more from his new complete recording of the PCs. It's good, just not what I was hoping for (something a bit bolder).

As for the Scriabin, Sofronitsky plays this on a 2 CD Denon set from Japan (which I think is on Vista Vera now).
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Moldyoldie on December 31, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
Quote from: Zhiliang on December 30, 2007, 06:44:37 AM
How was the Gutiérrez's version? I heard good things about it.
Absolute dynamite!   Gutiérrez and Järvi make a helluva team here with one of the world's great orchestras, all captured in an outstandingly vibrant digital soundscape.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Drasko on January 03, 2008, 05:34:49 AM
Quote from: Daverz on December 28, 2007, 11:55:39 AM
Has anyone heard Henriot-Schweitzer/Munch (http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1214760)?

Quote from: sidoze on December 30, 2007, 03:54:03 AM
never heard of the pianist

That is curious one, she made few concerto recordings (Prokofiev 2nd, Ravel G-major, d'Indy) while at the same time I never heard of any solo recordings. All concerto recordings are with Munch and wikipedia says she was his niece (some other gossipy site claims she was his 'niece').
Anyhow, Ravel's G-major is currently available from Rolf's:

http://homepages.ipact.nl/~otterhouse/  (http://homepages.ipact.nl/~otterhouse/)
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 03, 2008, 06:26:39 AM
Quote from: bassio on December 29, 2007, 04:37:32 PM
I guess this one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exIpzxq-2_I will put an end to all.

And this one puts and end to yours.

http://www.youtube.com/v/VjJQovEQSxM
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: greg on January 03, 2008, 06:37:43 AM
Quote from: Manuel on January 03, 2008, 06:26:39 AM
And this one puts and end to yours.

http://www.youtube.com/v/VjJQovEQSxM
wtf that's awful

QuoteI guess this one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exIpzxq-2_I will put an end to all.
man, that performance just gave me chills
would it be wrong if i clapped for him in my room?....
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: bhodges on January 03, 2008, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: moldyoldie on December 31, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
Absolute dynamite!   Gutiérrez and Järvi make a helluva team here with one of the world's great orchestras, all captured in an outstandingly vibrant digital soundscape.

Just as an aside, I have the CD from the same cycle of Gutiérrez in the Prokofiev Third, and it's fantastic.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 03, 2008, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 03, 2008, 06:37:43 AM
wtf that's awful

Why?
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: bassio on January 03, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
No greg it won't be wrong to clap  ;D

Thanks for the other video Manuel. So this is Toradze?!! This is the first time I see him. I haven't listened to his set.

The discontinuation before the reprise is an anti-climactic destruction of the momentary partial release of tension (accompanied with the momentary switch to suspense and anticipation) that will be further heightened to absolute horror when the orchestra makes its re-entrance.

His softer treatment at the beginning too is not my style.

He has some nice ideas though. But his version relays more Confusion. But I don't feel it as confusion here. This is absolute despair of a man .. approaching insanity .. (before being delivered to the deepest pits of hell).
Of course there are other parts of this concerto that certainly expresses "confusion" but not this particular section.  ;)

But it does not beat Abdel Rahman El Bacha's version I posted above in my opinion of course. His version is intriguing indeed .. and not to mention technically superb. There is another Berezovsky version on youtube take a look at it, but it is less interesting and also full of mistakes, when compared to El Bacha.

It appears that E Bacha's recording in this competition has been committed to disc and can be found on amazon.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on January 04, 2008, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: Manuel on January 03, 2008, 06:26:39 AM
And this one puts and end to yours.

You can never mistake the sound of Toradze, that harsh, metallic, banging sound which seems to be the only thing he can ever get out of the piano. IMO he is truly awful. He does the same thing to the Tchaikovsky 1, pounding it into submission. It's a shame because he has some good ideas, but as a musician he is hopeless. And his concert repertoire is tiny.

Now at least people can't say that I love all Russian pianists (add Afanassiev too)  8)
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: MichaelRabin on January 04, 2008, 04:22:10 AM
I had a bad time with Toradze as well. He played Rach PC 3 here live with the orch in Malaysia & he took about 60 mins to play that conc. Almost as bad as Pogorelich!
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 04, 2008, 05:13:14 AM
From Stage6

Shostakovich : Concerto for piano, trumpet and strings in C minor Op.35
-I. Allegro moderato
-II. Lento
-III. Moderato
-IV. Allegro con brio

ALEXANDER TORADZE (piano)
YUKIHIRO SEKIYAMA (trumpet)
ESA-PEKKA SALONEN (conductor)
NHK Symphony Orchestra

Location:NHK Hall (Tokyo, Japan)
Date:December 7 2002


View it here: http://www.stage6.com/user/opus3863aa/video/2018548/TORADZE-&-SALONEN-Shostakovich-Piano-Concerto-No-1

Download link here: http://video.stage6.com/2018548/.divx

Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: greg on January 04, 2008, 06:59:59 AM
Quote from: Manuel on January 03, 2008, 01:47:21 PM
Why?

Quote from: bassio on January 03, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
His softer treatment at the beginning too is not my style.
softer treatment, man....
way too slow..... i normally don't like virtuoso piano cadenzas to be slow.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 04, 2008, 10:21:11 AM
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 04, 2008, 06:59:59 AM
softer treatment, man....
way too slow..... i normally don't like virtuoso piano cadenzas to be slow.

You must hate Schumann's then.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: greg on January 04, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
Quote from: Manuel on January 04, 2008, 10:21:11 AM
You must hate Schumann's then.
wait, Schumann played Prokofiev?

wow!  :o
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: BachQ on January 04, 2008, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 04, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
wait!!! Schumann played Prokofiev?

He means Clara Schumann, Greg .........
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 04, 2008, 03:36:44 PM
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 04, 2008, 03:29:25 PM
wait, Schumann played Prokofiev?

wow!  :o

Not really. But you can wait for Bassio to shed some light on this, and then mimic him. Again.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: BachQ on January 04, 2008, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: bassio on January 03, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
The discontinuation before the reprise is an anti-climactic destruction of the momentary partial release of tension (accompanied with the momentary switch to suspense and anticipation) that will be further heightened to absolute horror when the orchestra makes its re-entrance.


Yes!  We see your point ..........  :D   Really .......... we do!
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 04, 2008, 04:05:51 PM
Quote from: bassio on January 03, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
Thanks for the other video Manuel. So this is Toradze?!! This is the first time I see him. I haven't listened to his set.

You are welcome.

You can watch the whole performance here... if you wanted to do such thing:

Sergei Prokofiev
Piano concerto Nº 2


Alexander Toradze piano
London Symphony Orchestra
Valery Gergiev conductor

Prom 59: London Symphony Orchestra
28 August 2007 - ROYAL ALBERT HALL

http://rapidshare.com/files/56605529/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/56407837/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/56431332/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.003
http://rapidshare.com/files/56450183/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.004
http://rapidshare.com/files/56555286/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.005
http://rapidshare.com/files/56571575/Alexander_Toradze_-_Prokofiev.2007.avi.006

Download the 6 files and join them with Hjsplit.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on January 04, 2008, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on January 04, 2008, 04:22:10 AM
I had a bad time with Toradze as well. He played Rach PC 3 here live with the orch in Malaysia & he took about 60 mins to play that conc. Almost as bad as Pogorelich!

Pogorelich's interpretation--of the 2nd, he doesn't play the third--is questionable of course, but one thing you won't get from Toradze--or anyone else--is the sheer kaleidoscopic range of sound he creates. The experience is unique for that alone.

Speaking of odd 2nds, have a listen to the Nyiregyhazi performance of the slow movement, a sort of free rhapsody on the work, in theory not far off from the Pogorelich reading. It's the last file on the page.

http://www.fugue.us/Nyiregyhazi_discography-3_E.html

QuoteFrom Stage6

Shostakovich : Concerto for piano, trumpet and strings in C minor Op.35

ALEXANDER TORADZE (piano)

Thanks but I'm not interested in that work. The one recording by Toradze that I'd like to hear is his Ravel Gaspard. Otherwise I've heard enough -- there are some pianists you know you just don't like, for one reason or another, in this case mostly for his tendency to bang (and bang and bang). It's a shame he can't create a huge sound without doing that (like Zhukov, Gekic and Nyiregyhazi), otherwise he'd be worth hearing more of.

And by the way, I love to hear this cadenza played slowly and heavily. Ugorski plays it like that.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: Zhiliang on January 04, 2008, 11:01:43 PM
Did Pogorelich record the Prokofiev 2nd on cd?
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: bassio on January 05, 2008, 03:11:28 AM
Quote from: D Minor on January 04, 2008, 04:00:56 PM

Yes!  We see your point ..........  :D   Really .......... we do!

I am glad you finally understood that D minor .. you know I always try to get my point across using the least number of words possible

;)

Thank you Manuel for the videos .. are they huge? I hope it won't take long if I wanted to download it using my snail connection (avg. 20KB).

At least I am not on dialup
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: bassio on January 05, 2008, 03:15:19 AM
Quote from: Zhiliang on January 04, 2008, 11:01:43 PM
Did Pogorelich record the Prokofiev 2nd on cd?

Sorry I have not heard about that
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on January 05, 2008, 04:18:23 AM
Quote from: Zhiliang on January 04, 2008, 11:01:43 PM
Did Pogorelich record the Prokofiev 2nd on cd?

He only ever played the 3rd, and is still playing it actually, though somewhat strangely.

When I said speaking of odd 2nds, I meant the Rachmaninoff.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: not edward on January 05, 2008, 06:04:49 AM
I'm still holding out hope for a single-CD recording from Severin von Eckardstein. His live performances at the Leeds and Queen Elizabeth competitions were excellent, but I'm not going to buy a 3CD set (the rest of which I don't really want) to keep them for posterity.
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: m_gigena on January 05, 2008, 06:13:00 AM
Quote from: bassio on January 05, 2008, 03:11:28 AM
Thank you Manuel for the videos .. are they huge? I hope it won't take long if I wanted to download it using my snail connection (avg. 20KB).

Each file from Prok's second is about 70mb.  :-\
Title: Re: Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2 & Scriabin Fantasie Op. 28
Post by: sidoze on February 06, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: edward on January 05, 2008, 06:04:49 AM
I'm still holding out hope for a single-CD recording from Severin von Eckardstein. His live performances at the Leeds and Queen Elizabeth competitions were excellent, but I'm not going to buy a 3CD set (the rest of which I don't really want) to keep them for posterity.

I have a copy of his QEC performance on DVD. It was sent to me by a very charming German man and I don't think he'd mind if I copy it on. I just have to find it first, however (this could take weeks).