I've never really gotten into concertos. (More of an orchestral, chamber and opera type.) However, I picked up her Paganini and Elgar discs from the library this weekend and have to admit I kind of like them. Being naive in the rep, is she "all that" or not? The marketing copy on her Paganini disc would have one believing she's the one and only heir to his crown. So am I digging her, or are the pieces strong enough for me to be enjoying them in spite of her, so to speak? Like I said, I don't know the violin concerto repertoire at all.
She is actually very good, her Bach Sonatas and Partitas are surprisingly mature, but she is far from the best here, though.
Janine Jansen, however, mmmmmmmmmmmm. 0:)
What do you mean "all that?" There is no question she is extremely talented, but anything mainstream there are probably a dozen or more extremely strong recordings available.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 30, 2007, 01:18:21 PM
What do you mean "all that?"
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole "how can she be hot AND good?" thing. Like I said, I'm enjoying her discs, but is it just because I don't know any better?
Quote from: Norbeone on December 30, 2007, 01:17:24 PM
She is actually very good, her Bach Sonatas and Partitas are surprisingly mature, but she is far from the best here, though.
Janine Jansen, however, mmmmmmmmmmmm. 0:)
I just put her Bach Sonatas disc on reserve. Same w/ Jansen. :)
I think the fact that she is hot contributes a lot for her notoriety.
Haven't heard much of her myself.
Quote from: gmstudio on December 30, 2007, 01:09:53 PM
I've never really gotten into concertos. (More of an orchestral, chamber and opera type.) However, I picked up her Paganini and Elgar discs from the library this weekend and have to admit I kind of like them. Being naive in the rep, is she "all that" or not? The marketing copy on her Paganini disc would have one believing she's the one and only heir to his crown. So am I digging her, or are the pieces strong enough for me to be enjoying them in spite of her, so to speak? Like I said, I don't know the violin concerto repertoire at all.
Many of my favorite orchestral works are concertos. Hilary Hahn is damned good, neither the Elgar nor Paganini are among the finer works in the violin concerto repertoire (IMO). There's gotta be a thread on violin concertos around here somewhere, and I know there was one on favorite concertos of all sort not long ago.
Quote from: gmstudio on December 30, 2007, 01:21:40 PM
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole "how can she be hot AND good?"
Hilary Hahn is "hot?" I guess hornteacher isn't the only one who thinks so. Certainly there's no dearth of fine fiddlers these days with plenty of sex appeal, but few are Ms Hahn's equal as performers, IMO. Janine Jansen? I didn't know she was that good (competition is steep!) and she's a bit Rubensesque for my taste otherwise.
I've been impressed by her recordings. On her debut album for Sony, she plays the Bach Sonatas & Partitas - three of them - with great exuberance and technical polish. She produces a very rich (to my ears) sound from her violin, especially in the lower register. My only complaint is that she had a tendency, at least back then, to overdo the rubato at times. But this habit seems less pronounced in later recordings of Beethoven, Mendelssohn, and Paganini violin concertos - could be that playing with an ensemble simply forces the soloist to keep a stricter rhythm. Anyway, when you receive the Bach CD, I think you'll be impressed by the opening track (Prelude to Partita #3). Ditto for the final track (Allegro from Sonata #3) and also the famous Chaconne from Partita #2, which - though marred by the rubato issue I mentioned earlier - I actually prefer over other Chaconne performances by the likes of Grumiaux, Milstein, Szigeti, Szeryng, Heifetz, Menuhin, Perlman, et al. I find her Fugue from the Sonata #3 to be a bit underwhelming, but on the whole it's an excellent album.
Quote from: Norbeone on December 30, 2007, 01:17:24 PM
Janine Jansen, however, mmmmmmmmmmmm. 0:)
Boy, nothing wrong w/ a young beautiful woman (although Hiliary & Janine, shown below, could be my daughters!) - :D
But, don't let these 'lovelies' distract you from the music - the concerto repertoire is VAST, and plenty of historic & modern recordings exist - wine tasting (an enjoyable hobby of mine!) may be an appropriate analogy - the best way to 'judge' the quality of a wine (from the appearance & label on the bottle - hint a pretty face) is by 'blind' tasting - base your decision on your 'ears', but doesn't hurt to have a gorgeous woman performing - ;) ;D
(http://www.universal-music.co.jp/classics/artist/janine_jansen/photo_images/image_files/janine_indexphoto.jpg)
Jansen has to be one of the most beautiful of all creatures. Good player too! ;)
She looks good indeed, Big Thumbs up from me.
I'm sure her playing would be music to my ears ;D
Quote from: gmstudio on December 30, 2007, 01:21:40 PM
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole "how can she be hot AND good?" thing.
Being hot and good are not exclusive things, are they?
I don't think I have ever heard Hilary Hahn's playing (I probably should check out her Elgar VC) and I don't even find her
that hot. Alina Pogostkina (http://www.alinapogostkina.de/) is hot.
Quote from: 71 dB on December 30, 2007, 03:22:48 PM
Being hot and good are not exclusive things, are they?
In today's music "market," being hot certainly helps, and we all know that hotness can compensate for a lack of talent (see: most pop music), so that's why I was asking about Hilary. Not knowing anything about her or the pieces, I was just wondering if I was being seduced by a creation of the industry, or if my ears were truly picking up on a real talent (as they seem to be.) My weakness, as I mentioned above, is that I don't know the pieces at all.
Quote from: Norbeone on December 30, 2007, 03:11:32 PM
Jansen has to be one of the most beautiful of all creatures. Good player too! ;)
That is a well-made photo. There she looks lovely, indeed, but it does demonstrate that Lara St. John's soft porn example did not go unnoticed by the major labels. I'm a potential buyer who's actually turned off by such tactics, seeing them as indicating that she lacks the chops to compete on musical merit. But can you really blame the record business for trying to market classical cuties in the same fashion that's made successes of many modestly talented pop singers?
(http://www.janine-jansen.nl/images/janine3.gif)
Quote from: longears on December 30, 2007, 04:14:18 PM
But can you really blame the record business for trying to market classical cuties in the same fashion that's made successes of many modestly talented pop singers?
Not when a sizable chunk of the market is supported by women. They are the ones who fall for this type of marketing. Same with "cute" female pop musicians.
I see hornteacher has at last arrived to explain everything! 0:)
Quote from: Brian on December 30, 2007, 04:36:35 PM
I see hornteacher has at last arrived to explain everything! 0:)
;D I'm just enjoying the thread.
Okay, I know I have a strong bias towards Hilary but I can justify my reasons for it, so hear me out:
1) She is unbelievably talented. No question. Just look at her biography. Began playing at age three, accepted to the Curtis Institute at age ten, premiered with the Baltimore Symphony at age 11, records the Bach CD at age 15, debuts at the PROMS at age 20, wins a Grammy at age 22. The list goes on and on. Is she the best violinist ever? For me yes, but others would be justified in placing someone else in that position. She is simply one of many incredibly talented soloists of our time.
2) She is cute. Just look at the cover of the Mendelssohn or Brahms CD and tell me she's not gorgeous. BUT, Hilary's beauty is not a compensation for her playing ability, and she has never marketed her sexuality blatantly to sell recordings or concert tickets. She is elegant, graceful, and tasteful in every photoshoot or personal appearance I have ever seen of her.
3) She is a very nice person. I've met her personally after a concert and she was very kind to all of her fans. She signed and took pictures for hours, met everyone who wanted to talk to her, hugged children, and remained humble and gracious the entire time.
If you really want to get to know Hilary Hahn the person, watch the DVD "Hilary Hahn: A Portrait". Its a marvellous way to see just what a wonderful artist and person she is.
BTW, my Amazon List for Everything Hilary Hahn is here:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Hilary-Hahn/lm/R1Y49NJVRD21H4/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_1_rsrsrs0
All these mentions of beautiful female classical musicians seems to reinforce the need for a site devoted solely to such a subject. Thank goodness one already exists. (http://www.beautyinmusic.com/) After all, it's looks that matter.
Quote from: Todd on December 30, 2007, 06:54:28 PM
All these mentions of beautiful female classical musicians seems to reinforce the need for a site devoted solely to such a subject. Thank goodness one already exists. (http://www.beautyinmusic.com/) After all, it's looks that matter.
What do you think is the chance that the guy who made this site has ever had sex? :)
Quote from: hornteacher on December 30, 2007, 04:55:41 PMIs she the best violinist ever? For me yes, but others would be justified in placing someone else in that position. She is simply one of many incredibly talented soloists of our time.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YP33GJ6ZL.jpg)
:)
To be honest, I have never heard Hilary Hahn play and feel incredibly guilty about it. Seems to me that she should be the very centerpiece of my frequent argument to friends and other people who can stand to listen to me, that the new generation of classical performers proves that our beloved genre is not dead - but rather on the brink of a new golden age. I am eager to hear her play - but please, until she's 86 and a legend with a full (75 year long) career and a hundred and six recordings and a trail of millions of inspired fans, let's leave the "best ever" talk for someone else to decide. :) (That's really the only reason I'm not shouting from the rooftops about Yevgeny Sudbin ... )
Quote from: Brian on December 30, 2007, 08:17:06 PM
but please, until she's 86 and a legend
But she won't be hot at 86. :)
Seriously, though, I didn't know she did the Bach disc at 15! Now I can't wait to hear it. Also just ordered the Mendelssohn and Brahms.
Quote from: gmstudio on December 30, 2007, 08:24:28 PM
But she won't be hot at 86. :)
Oh yes, she will be, provided you are 116 and any gal less than 80 can kill ya
Quote from: Brian on December 30, 2007, 08:17:06 PM
until she's 86 and a legend with a full (75 year long) career and a hundred and six recordings and a trail of millions of inspired fans, let's leave the "best ever" talk for someone else to decide. :)
I agree, that's why I only spoke for myself.
I'm actually into the violin repertorie now (before its all piano) because of these young artists. I'm speaking of Hilary Hahn, Janine Jansen, Sarah Chang, and Julia Fischer. I'm looking forward to a great year listening to (and looking at) these artists. =)
I'm loving the violin music so much now that I'm thinking of trying my ears (and eyes) to other young artists like Lisa Batiashvili, and Nicola Benedetti.
Happy New Year!
HuH ::)
Quote from: longears on December 30, 2007, 01:32:39 PM
Hilary Hahn is "hot?"
My question exactly. Rather plain, I'd say.
Quote from: Grazioso on January 06, 2008, 04:49:06 AM
My question exactly. Rather plain, I'd say.
Luckily for us we all have different concepts of beauty. If we didn't, we males would be fighting over the same narrow range of women, and the human race would have died out long ago from the lethal competition ;D I happen to think Hahn is extraordinarily beautiful:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/goodmusic/HahnProg.jpg)
And it's not just the skill of the glamour photog: I've seen her up close and personal, too, on several occasions and she really is a beauty...at least in my eyes.
But I'm with dB: I think Alina Pogostkina is the most attractive of the 20something generation of violinists.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/Pogostkina_650.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/nUmktUYWfu8
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 06, 2008, 06:25:29 AM
If we didn't, we males would be fighting over the same narrow range of women, and the human race would have died out long ago from the lethal competition ;D
Congratulations! You just managed to sum up world history in one sentence. That's basically what it's all about. The reason we haven't died out yet though is that there are plenty of not so desirable women no one fights over, and they have always been very happy to welcome the not so desirable losers in their arms. That's why there are so many idiots around.
Quote from: M forever on January 06, 2008, 06:38:00 AM
Congratulations! You just managed to sum up world history in one sentence. That's basically what it's all about. The reason we haven't died out yet though is that there are plenty of not so desirable women no one fights over, and they have always been very happy to welcome the not so desirable losers in their arms. That's why there are so many idiots around.
I thought this was about beauty, not brains. Or are they correlated do you think?
In my experience the beauties reproduce easily, but the not-so-beautiful nedd to be slighly smart to achive it. Perhaps.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 06, 2008, 06:25:29 AM(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/goodmusic/HahnProg.jpg)
Great photo. Some people don't usually photograph well, yet are beautiful in person...and vice versa. What I like about this photo particularly is the presence in her eyes.
That pilot light ain't flickering!
In my view one of the most talented violinists of our times. Brilliantly complemented by the orchestras, conductors, managers and technicians with which she is associated.
J.S. Bach
Various Excerpts
Violin Concertos
D.G.
Hilary Hahn - Soloist
Jeffrey Kahane
Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra
Executive Producer: Martin T:son Engstroem
Recording Producer: Thomas Frost
Balance Engineer: Tom Lazarus
Recording Engineer: Marc Stedman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WcoNXqMVfE
Simply wonderful !
Hornteacher would agree with you. :)
I like her 20th century concertos better, her style is not quite what I like in Bach.
Quote from: DavidW on July 25, 2009, 05:39:30 AM
Hornteacher would agree with you. :)
I like her 20th century concertos better, her style is not quite what I like in Bach.
I first heard her a few years ago. She has the most exquisite phrasing that I think I've heard in these works and a beautiful tone. The tempos are also marvellous. The power of her playing is not special. But she is accompanied by a superb orchestra. So, all things considered, I think she is a superbly gifted soloist.
It's true that her style is 'modern'. But that is no bad thing. It's consistent with itself - which matters most in matters of style. I have her recording of the Sibelius concerto which I aim to listen to this evening.
Wow! A topic where for once I can fully agree with robnewman. There must be a rupture in the space-time continuum somewhere....
Quote from: robnewman on July 25, 2009, 05:54:53 AMI have her recording of the Sibelius concerto which I aim to listen to this evening.
Will be interested in your opinion. To my mind, the second and third movements of her Sibelius were very good, but the first was very, very, very slow.
Quote from: Brian on July 25, 2009, 07:07:44 AM
Will be interested in your opinion. To my mind, the second and third movements of her Sibelius were very good, but the first was very, very, very slow.
It's actually quite perfectly within the range of typical interpretations. See e.g. Ferras or Vengerov for slow.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 25, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
It's actually quite perfectly within the range of typical interpretations. See e.g. Ferras or Vengerov for slow.
Well I was introduced to the concerto by Heifetz (14 min) and now admire Shaham (16 min) and Oistrakh (15 min) as well ... Hilary was my first exposure to those slow first movements, and I'm still not a fan.
Quote from: Brian on July 25, 2009, 07:36:35 AM
Well I was introduced to the concerto by Heifetz (14 min) and now admire Shaham (16 min) and Oistrakh (15 min) as well ... Hilary was my first exposure to those slow first movements, and I'm still not a fan.
You should give Ferras a hear. Regardless of what you might think of the tempo choices , that recording is just superb musicianship.
Quote from: Brian on July 25, 2009, 07:07:44 AM
Will be interested in your opinion. To my mind, the second and third movements of her Sibelius were very good, but the first was very, very, very slow.
Interesting, Brian. That Sibelius concerto is really quite a challenge and I'll give my verdict on it. The recording I specially like is with Tasmin Little as soloist. Better than even Heifetz, I think. But it will be interesting to hear Hilary Hahn. So the first movement of Hahn's is slow ? Mmm. Maybe she was trying to give a grand volcanic effect at the end of the 1st movement. Anyway, I will listen with great interest.
Goodness ! How awesome Bach is !!!! One longs to see a soloist literally dancing off the stage in some of his works.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 25, 2009, 07:50:26 AM
You should give Ferras a hear. Regardless of what you might think of the tempo choices , that recording is just superb musicianship.
Ferras - yes - very very fine !
robnewmann is my new BFF. ;D
I do enjoy Hahn's more modern take on the Bach, a little bit more speed than one usually hears in other recordings, and her tone quality is always so rich (plus she autographed my Bach CD when I met her after a recital).
The real highlight of her most recent CD in my opinion is more the Schoenberg than the Sibelius. Such a difficult and rarely recorded work and she brings so many new things to it. I think its her work on that concerto that won her the Grammy and all the Artist of the Year recognition.
If I'm not mistaken, she's recording the Tchaikovsky in the near future. That is something to look forward to.
Yes, we definitey need a recording of the Tchaikovsky.
Quote from: Herman on July 25, 2009, 10:59:24 PM
Yes, we definitey need a recording of the Tchaikovsky.
Just looking at recordings that have come out in the past three years, Hilary will be duking it out with Ilya Kaler, Julia Fischer, Gil Shaham, and Vadim Gluzman. Tough crowd.
Quote from: Brian on July 26, 2009, 11:58:10 AM
Just looking at recordings that have come out in the past three years, Hilary will be duking it out with Ilya Kaler, Julia Fischer, Gil Shaham, and Vadim Gluzman. Tough crowd.
Yeah... you see that was sarcasm. :D
Oh gotcha <puts on Milstein> :)
Just found out Hilary Hahn will be on Conan O'Brien's show on Thursday night, Jan. 14 ("assuming he's still on the air," joked one report).
--Bruce
She's a pretty good interviewer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZl1_NXKls)!
Quote from: jhns on September 26, 2011, 10:35:12 PMI love her performance of the traditional concertos and even the Schoenberg and Higdon concertos, and I am by no means a fan of atonal music.
You call Bartok's mid to later works "ugly and harsh," but you praise the VC of Schoenberg? ??? I don't get you at all.
Quote from: jhns on September 27, 2011, 02:43:05 PM
I like Hilary's playing of the Schoenberg concerto because she is very emotional with it. She lifts the music, same with Higdon. She has made people love these concertos and understand this hard music. I am one of these people, even though I usually don't like hard and harsh music.
I've liked the Schoenberg VC before Hahn ever touched it. It's the music you essentially enjoy, regardless who plays it, though it does help to have a virtuoso like Hahn performing it.
Quote from: jhns on September 27, 2011, 03:20:33 PM...atonal music has to be played emotionally.
That can be said of any music. If there's no emotion, then why play it?
I utterly admire Hilary Hahn as a violinist and for her very selective and unique approach in terms of the recordings she makes. As she grows more experienced she is definitely choosing more narrow niches. I do wish she recorded more of her performances. She is clearly an inspiration to young musicians and to the realm of classical music overall.
She is interesting to listen to as she is practicing: 0:)
https://www.youtube.com/v/t_vD0BJBHso
https://www.youtube.com/v/54_92amk5Go
I certainly can only nod my head in agreement with you, Peter. She's an outstanding violinist. I hope she'll record the Nielsen Violin Concerto at some point as this photo with Herbert Blomstedt still has me salivating quite a bit:
(https://www.oly-forum.com/files/images/p8232557_0.preview.jpg)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 07:06:59 PM
I certainly can only nod my head in agreement with you, Peter. She's an outstanding violinist. I hope she'll record the Nielsen Violin Concerto at some point as this photo with Herbert Blomstedt still has me salivating quite a bit:
(https://www.oly-forum.com/files/images/p8232557_0.preview.jpg)
Hear! Hear! She is indeed outstanding!
I wonder why she has been so (relatively speaking) restrictive in terms of recordings? I think she has a lot to "say" with her interpretations and skills. Nielsen's VC is on your wish list? Perhaps we could petition her? :D
Quote from: Moonfish on May 30, 2018, 08:16:22 PM
Hear! Hear! She is indeed outstanding!
I wonder why she has been so (relatively speaking) restrictive in terms of recordings? I think she has a lot to "say" with her interpretations and skills. Nielsen's VC is on your wish list? Perhaps we could petition her? :D
I recall her performing Nielsen's VC more and more in recent years. I wouldn't say, however, that this concerto is without some already excellent performances (Frang, Znaider), but seeing how Hahn really turned me around to the Sibelius' VC, I have suspicion that she'll do the same for me in the Nielsen (even though I do already enjoy this work a lot).
Has she recorded Bartók's violin concertos? I think that would be interesting to hear.
Quote from: jessop on May 30, 2018, 08:19:50 PM
Has she recorded Bartók's violin concertos? I think that would be interesting to hear.
She has not. In fact, she's performed one of Prokofiev's concerti, but hasn't ever recorded it. As Peter points out, I find that her discography doesn't quite live up to how immense her talent truly is (not to imply that she hasn't made some great recordings of course).
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 08:26:10 PM
She has not. In fact, she's performed one of Prokofiev's concerti, but hasn't ever recorded it. As Peter points out, I find that her discography doesn't quite live up to how immense her talent truly is (not to imply that she hasn't made some great recordings of course).
My guess is that she isn't as interested in recording them until later in her career. Or perhaps she feels like live performances are much better for her than the recording studio.
Quote from: jessop on May 30, 2018, 08:32:16 PM
My guess is that she isn't as interested in recording them until later in her career. Or perhaps she feels like live performances are much better for her than the recording studio.
I'm not sure exactly what her goal is as I'm certainly not one who really should be questioning it as she's done incredibly well for herself. I just wish she recorded more often than she does.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 09:08:02 PM
I'm not sure exactly what her goal is as I'm certainly not one who really should be questioning it as she's done incredibly well for herself. I just wish she recorded more often than she does.
Agreed! She has been prominent for 20 years now and has a very low key discography. Sixteen albums since 1996 according to Wiki - I think it is 17 with her latest compilation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Hahn#Discography
Ah, I liked her Vieuxtemps 4 from 2015!!
This year she has released 'Retrospective' which is a selection of pieces of her past recordings with DG.
https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/album/hahn-retrospective
[asin] B0779P468N[/asin]
[posting here and in the Bruch thread]
I watched and listened to Hilary Hahn performing Bruch's Violin Concerto #1 last night and it was mesmerizing. I find her playing outstanding, but I'm a bit biased. Besides, there is a reason why Bruch's VC #1 belongs in the realm of popular concertos in the repertoire. I wish that Hahn was recording more of her performances.
https://www.youtube.com/v/KDJ6Wbzgy3E
While sex has always sold to some extent, it is rather odd that a large number of "star" soloists under say 40 are suddenly all hot
Hard to imagine goofy looking bastards like Murray Perahia or Clifford Curzon, for example being big stars if they were 30 in today's market ... It makes you wonder who we're NOT hearing about. This is not to suggest a person can't be both physically attractive and a great musician but it used to be unusual and that's a little suspicious.
I've noted this particular trend as well, but personally I think more about the music and Hahn's ability to play the violin. She comes across as a performer that is attuned to music rather than marketing. After all, she is not cranking out album after album. The discography is minimal.
I very much enjoyed the Bruch concerto.
Hahn is an attractive young woman, but she's not on the Yuja level.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91tsp%2BFV8oL._SL1500_.jpg)
Yuja's technical ability is phenomenal, she would be noted even if she wasn't wearing a tight dress ... I've never heard a recording by her that I've wanted to buy because her playing just doesn't captivate me in any real way but there's a whole bunch of famous, very funny looking male pianists I could say that about and most of them don't have her chops, either.
Hillary I couldn't really comment on as I'm not a big listener of violin soloists in general ... she seems to get good marks from people whose opinions I respect a lot so I'm sure she's excellent
I was only making a general observation about the trend; some of the "hotties" are likely the real deal, I just doubt that all of them are
Quote from: Daverz on October 17, 2019, 12:33:01 PM
Hahn is an attractive young woman, but she's not on the Yuja level.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91tsp%2BFV8oL._SL1500_.jpg)
Yuja is pretty cute, but I'm much more attracted to Olga Scheps:
(https://www.olgascheps.com/index.php?rex_resize=640h__russian_album_booklet_innen.jpg)
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 17, 2019, 11:07:30 AM
While sex has always sold to some extent, it is rather odd that a large number of "star" soloists under say 40 are suddenly all hot
Hard to imagine goofy looking bastards like Murray Perahia or Clifford Curzon, for example being big stars if they were 30 in today's market ... It makes you wonder who we're NOT hearing about. This is not to suggest a person can't be both physically attractive and a great musician but it used to be unusual and that's a little suspicious.
I don't think it is any different now than before. Think how Glen Gould, Christopher Rousset and Scot Ross cultivated their image to catch the pink market, for example.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p5-NBJxHyqw/U5a-zaxop3I/AAAAAAAAbqA/BcAUR-QjPGM/s1600/Scott+Ross+Soler+1.jpg). (https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/x2kAAOSw8NlcikNK/s-l200.jpg). (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JWCp06-XL._SY355_.jpg)
I don't think it is so simple. Mutter became famous as a chubby teenager and matured into an attractive woman only many years later (She looks relatively better now in her 50s than she did in her 20s when she was more average while quite presentable). Hahn used to look extremely young even well into her twenties but not particularly "sexy" and she was not presented aggressively in such way.
But it certainly doesn't hurt either gender in the music business to be good looking.
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 17, 2019, 11:07:30 AM
While sex has always sold to some extent, it is rather odd that a large number of "star" soloists under say 40 are suddenly all hot
Hard to imagine goofy looking bastards like Murray Perahia or Clifford Curzon, for example being big stars if they were 30 in today's market ... It makes you wonder who we're NOT hearing about. This is not to suggest a person can't be both physically attractive and a great musician but it used to be unusual and that's a little suspicious.
I have heard it said by industry insiders that there is such a glut of talent these days – conservatories are producing more excellent performers than will ever find jobs – that promoters and labels can afford to choose only the most attractive-looking among them.
Wouldn't surprise me at all
I find it sad that the Hahn thread has turned into a discussion about marketing and sexism in the music industry. Surely Hahn's performances and recordings deserve better?
Quote from: Moonfish on October 24, 2019, 05:37:25 PM
I find it sad that the Hahn thread has turned into a discussion about marketing and sexism in the music industry. Surely Hahn's performances and recordings deserve better?
That topic was introduced on the very first page... and numerous posters have made it clear they are not necessarily referring to Hahn in particular when discussing what is a readily apparent phenomena among the major labels ... DG (for decades a standard bearer of musical excellence- however overrated it sometimes was) have on numerous occasions in the last two decades put out albums that are utterly pointless... tepid, routine performances of standard repertoire that add absolutely nothing to the library but which are decorated with images of the unusually handsome young conductor, the fetchingly sexy violinist, the mysterious pianist with a 5-o'clock shadow, the busty soprano ... this is a definite thing that is happening... is this happening with Hahn? I can't say. My interest in her instrument and its repertoire is too small. But I know it's happening in repertoire that does interest me so I'm sure the violin is no different... is Vanessa Mae bringing something to the violin repertoire that actually stands out in any meaningful way or is she merely a competent instrumentalist who happens to look fabulous on an album cover?
Khatia Buniatishvili is absolutely permitted to make records for a major label because she's hot. I don't see how one could really argue with that. In the repertoire she plays, she's a NAXOS pianist if this is 1995. There is literally nothing positive about her performances that in any way distinguishes them in the repertoire she favors (which happens to be the most saturated there is) to the point a major label issuing them makes any artistic sense ... Pianists both eminent and eminently forgettable were making recordings of the exact same things from the earliest days of recorded sound and the number of more insightful, more profound, technically superior, more charming, etc recordings than hers numbers in the hundreds ... but she has a really nice figure
Of course there are exceptions... Yuja Wang really is an extraordinary technician... I don't care for her playing style in most things she does but she's a major talent and I think she's a musician of such unusual skill that she'd probably still be well known even if she looked like Bruckner in drag but there's no doubt that her appearance is something she and her label cash in on
Vanessa Mae was before 1995, so this is a much older trend!
Quote from: Jo498 on October 25, 2019, 09:17:07 AM
Vanessa Mae was before 1995, so this is a much older trend!
Ok, so THREE decades ;D
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 25, 2019, 07:36:39 AM
That topic was introduced on the very first page... and numerous posters have made it clear they are not necessarily referring to Hahn in particular when discussing what is a readily apparent phenomena among the major labels ... DG (for decades a standard bearer of musical excellence- however overrated it sometimes was) have on numerous occasions in the last two decades put out albums that are utterly pointless... tepid, routine performances of standard repertoire that add absolutely nothing to the library but which are decorated with images of the unusually handsome young conductor, the fetchingly sexy violinist, the mysterious pianist with a 5-o'clock shadow, the busty soprano ... this is a definite thing that is happening... is this happening with Hahn? I can't say. My interest in her instrument and its repertoire is too small. But I know it's happening in repertoire that does interest me so I'm sure the violin is no different... is Vanessa Mae bringing something to the violin repertoire that actually stands out in any meaningful way or is she merely a competent instrumentalist who happens to look fabulous on an album cover?
Khatia Buniatishvili is absolutely permitted to make records for a major label because she's hot. I don't see how one could really argue with that. In the repertoire she plays, she's a NAXOS pianist if this is 1995. There is literally nothing positive about her performances that in any way distinguishes them in the repertoire she favors (which happens to be the most saturated there is) to the point a major label issuing them makes any artistic sense ... Pianists both eminent and eminently forgettable were making recordings of the exact same things from the earliest days of recorded sound and the number of more insightful, more profound, technically superior, more charming, etc recordings than hers numbers in the hundreds ... but she has a really nice figure
Of course there are exceptions... Yuja Wang really is an extraordinary technician... I don't care for her playing style in most things she does but she's a major talent and I think she's a musician of such unusual skill that she'd probably still be well known even if she looked like Bruckner in drag but there's no doubt that her appearance is something she and her label cash in on
A poor excuse! So rename the thread then...
Quote from: Moonfish on October 25, 2019, 12:13:14 PM
A poor excuse! So rename the thread then...
It's not my thread!
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 25, 2019, 02:49:43 PM
It's not my thread!
Then start a new one about sexism in the music industry somewhere in the diner.
Quote from: Moonfish on October 25, 2019, 10:00:27 PM
Then start a new one about sexism in the music industry somewhere in the diner.
Why don't YOU start one called "Hillary Hahn's violin playing discussion- no deviation allowed"?
Threads go off track... it is the nature of conversation... this one went this way within three posts and you're here on page four trying to close Pandora's box
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 25, 2019, 07:36:39 AM
Khatia Buniatishvili is absolutely permitted to make records for a major label because she's hot. I don't see how one could really argue with that. In the repertoire she plays, she's a NAXOS pianist if this is 1995. There is literally nothing positive about her performances that in any way distinguishes them in the repertoire she favors (which happens to be the most saturated there is) to the point a major label issuing them makes any artistic sense ... Pianists both eminent and eminently forgettable were making recordings of the exact same things from the earliest days of recorded sound and the number of more insightful, more profound, technically superior, more charming, etc recordings than hers numbers in the hundreds ... but she has a really nice figure
No denying she is one of the most attractive musicians in classical music, but she does deserve being called a serious musician. I saw her play D960, and outside of some minor slips only noticeable if you're familiar with the score this was a performance that could nearly stand along the ranks of Richter, Sokolov (aware there is no official releases of this) and Fiorentino in grand world moving execution. And she played the much needed repeat unlike another arrogant, academic type house pianist for another major label, turning in dry, mannered recording after recording. I do agree with you that she records much of the same popular repertoire, but that same thing can be said about any number of male and female (both attractive, unattractive, old and new) pianists recording these days. I can't say I have a grand desire to rush out and hear many of these works when I already have a handful or more reference performances.
IMHO the slam on Naxos pianists is also a bit unfair, I've heard many of them that could be recording on major labels. Maybe they lack the ability to market themself properly, something that is really needed if you aren't an established name living on from the old world of pianism. I am glad I only have to play piano for myself, I can't even imagine how stressful it must be trying to land jobs in this saturated market that someone else mentioned; matching into an absurdly competitive fellowship was one of the most stressful moments of my life that I have no desire to relive!
Not related to your post CB, this was a thread I started (https://www.talkclassical.com/50873-how-much-do-our.html) on how we can be prejudiced about preformed notions when it comes to any number of things in life, I know this plays a big effect in medicine and why we always do RCTs, and it is obvious with audiophiles as well when they can hear differences in all sorts of tweaks in sighted listening but can't detect them in blind listening.
A poor quality picture of Khatia from that concert to lighten up my post!
(https://i.imgur.com/1QW3985.jpg)
Many of the performers cited above first came to prominence as child (or very youthful) prodigies. Sex appeal didn't enter into it unless you suppose that most music lovers are also paedophiles. They probably did subsequently get very good image coaching to enhance their career prospects.
Quote from: staxomega on October 27, 2019, 07:57:05 AM
No denying she is one of the most attractive musicians in classical music, but she does deserve being called a serious musician. I saw her play D960, and outside of some minor slips only noticeable if you're familiar with the score this was a performance that could nearly stand along the ranks of Richter, Sokolov (aware there is no official releases of this) and Fiorentino in grand world moving execution. And she played the much needed repeat unlike another arrogant, academic type house pianist for another major label, turning in dry, mannered recording after recording. I do agree with you that she records much of the same popular repertoire, but that same thing can be said about any number of male and female (both attractive, unattractive, old and new) pianists recording these days. I can't say I have a grand desire to rush out and hear many of these works when I already have a handful or more reference performances.
IMHO the slam on Naxos pianists is also a bit unfair, I've heard many of them that could be recording on major labels. Maybe they lack the ability to market themself properly, something that is really needed if you aren't an established name living on from the old world of pianism. I am glad I only have to play piano for myself, I can't even imagine how stressful it must be trying to land jobs in this saturated market that someone else mentioned; matching into an absurdly competitive fellowship was one of the most stressful moments of my life that I have no desire to relive!
Not related to your post CB, this was a thread I started (https://www.talkclassical.com/50873-how-much-do-our.html) on how we can be prejudiced about preformed notions when it comes to any number of things in life, I know this plays a big effect in medicine and why we always do RCTs, and it is obvious with audiophiles as well when they can hear differences in all sorts of tweaks in sighted listening but can't detect them in blind listening.
A poor quality picture of Khatia from that concert to lighten up my post!
(https://i.imgur.com/1QW3985.jpg)
I was referring to NAXOS as it's performers (particularly soloists) would've been seen at that time... decent, professional grade but most of the time not elite
And I'm sorry, but comparing her to Richter? Maybe Richter in his 70s
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 28, 2019, 07:36:25 AM
I was referring to NAXOS as it's performers (particularly soloists) would've been seen at that time... decent, professional grade but most of the time not elite
And I'm sorry, but comparing her to Richter? Maybe Richter in his 70s
I wasn't comparing her as a musician to Richter, just that single performance of D960 was almost as good as the live recordings I've heard from him on Melodiya and the Salzburg studio recording from 1972. To turn in such a performance with that much gravitas warrants being considered a serious musician. And the comparison to Richter in his 70s is peculiar as well as his tempi could be belabored at that point and her playing in the show pieces in the second half of the concert was quite the opposite.
I wasn't making a literal comparison
I was making a sarcastic one
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 28, 2019, 12:12:35 PM
I wasn't making a literal comparison
I was making a sarcastic one
I'm not sure the sarcasm really works here; in order for it work there would have to stylistically be some semblance in their shared pianism. Are you more familiar with Richter just as a big name pianist or intimately familiar with vast recorded output? Because I was not drawing any comparison with the former, this is his famous recording of D960 if you have never heard it. He has many fine live performances of it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncNcNtGkJY
Edit: I'll quote the words I used to be clear I was only making the comparison with D960 "this was a
performance that could nearly stand along the ranks of Richter, Sokolov (aware there is no official releases of this) and Fiorentino in grand world moving execution". As a
big Richter fan I would never draw a general comparison between the two!
Quote from: ChopinBroccoli on October 26, 2019, 02:07:12 PM
Why don't YOU start one called "Hillary Hahn's violin playing discussion- no deviation allowed"?
No need to be an ass, Broccoli guy!
Quote from: Moonfish on October 28, 2019, 10:31:04 PM
No need to be an ass, Broccoli guy!
Sorry? The ass is the guy who clearly read only page 4 and started preaching
You have yet to make a statement that's actually about Hillary Hahn ... just here to preach
Quote from: Moonfish on October 17, 2019, 11:47:17 AM
[Hahn] comes across as a performer that is attuned to music rather than marketing. After all, she is not cranking out album after album. The discography is minimal.
I very much enjoyed the Bruch concerto.
Hahn does both. She has a huge Instagram following. She makes videos of just about everything she does, and that includes jumping in a lake wearing her concert gown, just to show (as if) she's still a teen at heart.
She made a vid of herself plying the violin plying a hula hoop at the same time, along with those annoying Two Set Violin kids.
It looks like she likes having fun.
And she makes lot of records.
This mixed offensive, both on social media and in hardcore recordings and concerts, has been very successful. Especially in the US there are a lot of kids that believe that she's the greatest violinist since Heifetz. She consistently appears at the top of favorite violinist lists
in America. Not so much in other parts of the world, but them's the breaks.
In my opinion she's a very very good violinist, but somehow whatever she records never makes it to the ultimate top because it's too much about control and application, she never goes crazy, which is what you're hearing if you listen to Janine Jansen or Lisa Batiashvili. I guess this just says I have never seen her play live.
What I like about her is that she's basically a normal person. She doesn't do "hot woman violinist." (I know some guys talk about her as "hot" on this topic, but that's because some guys will get hard just from watching paint dry.) She talks about having kids. She refuses to go along with the 10 million dollar Strad game; she's been playing a 19th century French violin like forever and nobody even hears the difference.
Amen to the Strad comment
Nobody hears the difference because there isn't one
Quote from: Herman on October 31, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
Hahn ...talks about having kids...
She has two and is currently on a year-long sabbatical. https://www.thestrad.com/news/hilary-hahn-begins-year-long-sabbatical/9431.article. :)
Right, she doesn't act as if there's nothing in life but playing concerts.
(https://imgartists.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Album-cover.jpg)
Any thoughts on this release?
The only works I know by Abril are concertante works with piano (and "Alegrias", a "cantata -divertimento" for children's chorus and orchestra that I definitely did not enjoy...).
However, Nocturnos De La Antequeruela Para Piano Y Orquesta de Cuerda, I find very engaging.
(https://img.discogs.com/J7H0Fs2E2Vxb990iymRu1bBbxNY=/fit-in/600x545/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7005827-1431514435-3059.jpeg.jpg)
The concerto for piano and orchestra isn't bad either (20th century / cfr. Bartok Prokofiev/ Poulenc/Ravel...) , the Nocturnos do have a wonderful mysterious quality that is very poetic.