What specific recordings do you have that you enjoy? Thanks!
Antthing by Emil - Gilels including
Fantasia Op 116
Ballades Op10
Paganini variations
A pity that he didn't record more of this composer.
Quote from: Holden on January 24, 2008, 07:38:40 PM
Antthing by Emil - Gilels including
Fantasia Op 116
Ballades Op10
Paganini variations
A pity that he didn't record more of this composer.
The first two are on this cd Holden:
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/92/923346.jpg)
but it is a $45 box set with many other composers. Not sure if the third rec. is in print.
For the third piano sonata w/ quality fillers:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KN9G7NDQL._SS500_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4179TGX00XL._SS500_.jpg)
Piano sonatas 1 & 2:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4106KJ56PNL._SS500_.jpg)
Middle and late miniatures:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4a/1d/d0fcb2c008a082bbb7ac7010.L.jpg)
(Op.76, 116, 119)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DMBT8K0QL._SS500_.jpg)
And the Hungarian Dances, four hands:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31340CJYF8L._SS500_.jpg)
This should be interesting, because I've been wondering about this myself.
I recently bought the Katchen set on Decca and was generally disappointed. I like Katchen a great deal in other repertiore (e.g., Liszt concertos), but found his readings of Brahms to be really rather lightweight and superficial. Gould's are terrible IMO, and even Michelangeli stumbles in this repertiore. My favorites by far would have to be Solomon's various recordings, now issued on Testament (Handel Variations, Concertos Nos 1, 2, Sonata No. 3, etc), and Wilhelm Kempff on GPOC series. Both offer very deep, powerful interpretations which are very technically polished.
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 24, 2008, 09:25:44 PM
This should be interesting, because I've been wondering about this myself.
I recently bought the Katchen set on Decca and was generally disappointed. I like Katchen a great deal in other repertiore (e.g., Liszt concertos), but found his readings of Brahms to be really rather lightweight and superficial. Gould's are terrible IMO, and even Michelangeli stumbles in this repertiore. My favorites by far would have to be Solomon's various recordings, now issued on Testament (Handel Variations, Concertos Nos 1, 2, Sonata No. 3, etc), and Wilhelm Kempff on GPOC series. Both offer very deep, powerful interpretations which are very technically polished.
I am also quite found of Solomon's recordings. His rendering really gives them a more modern, dynamic flavor. Interested in the Goode set. Are you familiar?
I have the box from Idill Biret on Naxos Bill!
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/PHI426439.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OyO1pzsLL._AA240_.jpg)
Any word on Martin Jones's complete set on Nimbus?
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 24, 2008, 09:25:44 PM
I recently bought the Katchen set on Decca and was generally disappointed. I like Katchen a great deal in other repertiore (e.g., Liszt concertos), but found his readings of Brahms to be really rather lightweight and superficial.
Interesting. I love the Brahms recordings by Katchen with Suk and/or Starker (assorted sonatas and trios), but was never drawn into his solo piano recordings, though they've certainly received plenty of critical support from other listeners. As always, you must please your OWN ears.
Personally, I can find no one-style-fits-all approach that appeals to me in Brahms' solo piano, and listen to Lupu, Backhaus (!), Michelangeli and Gilels probably more often than most, with a bit of Kempff, Richter and others thrown in. If there's any consistent thread there, I've yet to find it.
;D
Of all the suggestions made so far, the one I'm most keen to follow up is Solomon. I have NONE of his solo Brahms on CD and will have to dig in my vinyl trove to see what may be hiding there. But given my admiration for his Beethoven and (far too little) Chopin, I have a feeling I'd find his Brahms most appealing.
Cheers,
Dirk
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DMBT8K0QL._SS500_.jpg)
lupu yes!
and i love curzon's sonata no. 3:
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z208/samdrophy/curzon.jpg)
and i agree with gilels for the ballades and op. 116.
Quote from: Holden on January 24, 2008, 07:38:40 PM
Antthing by Emil - Gilels including
Fantasia Op 116
Ballades Op10
Paganini variations
A pity that he didn't record more of this composer.
Seconded. :)
Quote from: Samuel on January 25, 2008, 06:18:30 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DMBT8K0QL._SS500_.jpg)
lupu yes!
Thirded! :)
Bill there is a Rubinstein CD that comes very highly recommended. (http://www.amazon.com/Rubinstein-Collection-Vol-Johannes-Brahms/dp/B000031WC3/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201275955&sr=1-2)
Kovacevich, Grimaud, Sokolov.
Its hard to beat the complete Katchen set.
Anton Kubilev on Dorian (which may be out of print) was also very good
You must get Gould playing the late intermezzi! I never would have thought Glenn would be my choice for Brahms, but these are some of my favorite recordings.
Quote from: spaghetti on January 25, 2008, 08:56:13 AM
You must get Gould playing the late intermezzi! I never would have thought Glenn would be my choice for Brahms, but these are some of my favorite recordings.
Was just about to recommend this. Yes, I completely agree, they're such wonderful performances. So un-Gould like yet so entirely Gould-like too. Also, his ballades are great (though more standardly Gouldian) and the two Rhapsodies are also very nice.
You will never heard a more mezmerizing performance of the 1st and 2nd intermezzi of op.117 (I think that's the opus number)
;)
Bill - I went through this process a few years ago - had a couple of CDs of Brahms solo piano works (mentioned already here), but wanted a more 'complete' package, so I bought the Katchen set, and was generally pleased - the recordings date mainly from the 1960s; the reviews were mostly favorable (including comments from this forum at the time) - still have a Goode disc, but would be willing to hear others - thus, will be quite interested in this thread - Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517N6Q5Cu0L._AA240_.jpg)
Grazioso, I bought the Martin Jones set a few months back to swat down some of the lesser known works. It's certainly dependable and accurately played, though with a calculated feel and almost as though he's just finished learning to play the music. However the Brahms solo piano music is controversial territory and I'd agree with the view that it's hard to know exactly what to do with these works- they're romantic and emotional but Brahms at his most tempered and ambiguous.
Quote from: dirkronk on January 25, 2008, 05:28:02 AM
Interesting. I love the Brahms recordings by Katchen with Suk and/or Starker (assorted sonatas and trios), but was never drawn into his solo piano recordings, though they've certainly received plenty of critical support from other listeners. As always, you must please your OWN ears.
Personally, I can find no one-style-fits-all approach that appeals to me in Brahms' solo piano, and listen to Lupu, Backhaus (!), Michelangeli and Gilels probably more often than most, with a bit of Kempff, Richter and others thrown in. If there's any consistent thread there, I've yet to find it.
;D
Of all the suggestions made so far, the one I'm most keen to follow up is Solomon. I have NONE of his solo Brahms on CD and will have to dig in my vinyl trove to see what may be hiding there. But given my admiration for his Beethoven and (far too little) Chopin, I have a feeling I'd find his Brahms most appealing.
Cheers,
Dirk
The Handel Variations will blow you away, as will the sonata No. 3, and all of it really! I can't recommend these enough!
http://www.amazon.ca/Pno-Cto-Johannes-Brahms/dp/B000003XIN/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201295924&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.ca/Pno-Cto-Johannes-Brahms/dp/B000003XIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201295924&sr=1-1
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41N6804N1FL._SS500_.jpg)
And this CD also contains his legendary performance of
Carnaval (not to be missed!)
http://www.amazon.ca/Plays-Pno-Robert-Schumann/dp/B000003XJO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201295924&sr=1-2
For the Handel Variations, my favored versions are: Fleischer, Cohen, Solomon, Petri, Petrushansky, Katchen, Boriskin and Kovacevich. Avoid Pratt and Ax.
Very enthusiastic about the Katchen set. I also like Hough's hyperion recording of Ballades and Sonata #3.
My very first Brahms piano solo recording was the original LP of Glenn Gould playing the late Intermezzi. And I still quite love that recording. At the time I had no real idea of the temperment of the pianist and the composer, just that it quickly became my favorite piano solo recording. It has been reissued on CD by Sony in various combinations with Ballades, etc. Now that I am older I still love it and especially the way that Gould sort of opens up the dense Brahmsian textures like no other pianist. Especially Op. 118 No. 2 which is just breathtaking. I would very highly recommend the CD reissue of this classic.
QuoteBogey
What specific recordings do you have that you enjoy? Thanks!
2nd Sonata / Arrau
3rd Sonata opus 5 / Clifford Curzon
Ballades opus 10 / Arrau
Händel Variations / Moiseiwitsch
Paganini Variations / Arrau
Rhapsodies opus 79 / Radu Lupu
Fantasias opus 116 / Gilels (1983)
Intermezzi opus 117, Klavierstücke opus 118 and 119 / Radu Lupu
Valses opus 39 / Duo Crommelynck
Hungarian Dances / Steven and Stjn Kolacny
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/216M03N9V0L._AA130_.jpg)
I know it's been mentioned before but I also have this outstanding recording.
Quote from: Samuel on January 25, 2008, 06:18:30 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DMBT8K0QL._SS500_.jpg)
lupu yes!
0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)
i have Abbey Simon playing the Paganini Variations..... any videos on youtube that may be better?
I'm slightly partial to some of the performances on KASP 57651 (www.kasprecords.com).
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 25, 2008, 12:21:39 PM
The Handel Variations will blow you away, as will the sonata No. 3, and all of it really! I can't recommend these enough!
http://www.amazon.ca/Pno-Cto-Johannes-Brahms/dp/B000003XIN/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201295924&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.ca/Pno-Cto-Johannes-Brahms/dp/B000003XIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201295924&sr=1-1
Thanks for the links. I looked in the vinyl trove at home and found that I have Solomon's two Brahms piano concerti but none of his Brahms solo works. Drat! This means I have to decide whether to pay the freight for replicating the concerti on CD in order to get the solo stuff, too, or simply do without. Hmmmm.
:-\
Dirk
Funny enough, I love the Katchen set of solo works, but am underwhelmed by his set of brahms concerto's. But I guess it just goes to show that the solo works (and the chamber works) really benefit from a lean and clean approach. Brahms is so inherently emotional in his music that it is a mistake to pour on the "deep feelings" in performance. Doing so pushes it out of the "emotional" realm and straight to the "schmaltz" realm.
One of the best discoveries for me yet since I fell in love with classical music. :)
Today, I sampled Brahms 4 Ballades for solo piano, Op. 10 on Naxos (I. Biret, piano)
and now another great discovery for me. The 2 piano, 4 hands arrangement of the Dm Piano Concerto. Christian Kohn and Silke-Thora Matthies on piano.
Quote from: ChamberNut on January 29, 2008, 11:09:49 AM
...and now another great discovery for me. The 2 piano, 4 hands arrangement of the Dm Piano Concerto. Christian Kohn and Silke-Thora Matthies on piano.
Some of those are quite good. For an interesting experience, try their recording of the German Requiem -- it really helped me to hear the work in a new way. There's a lot of complexity and little details that often get buried under the choir and boomy acoustics in full-scale recordings; I rather liked it.
Quote from: jwinter on January 29, 2008, 11:45:07 AM
Some of those are quite good. For an interesting experience, try their recording of the German Requiem -- it really helped me to hear the work in a new way. There's a lot of complexity and little details that often get buried under the choir and boomy acoustics in full-scale recordings; I rather liked it.
Oh yes, I intend on checking out alot of the other 4 hand piano arrangements, including the German Requiem. :)
Quote from: Norbeone on January 25, 2008, 09:27:46 AM
Was just about to recommend this. Yes, I completely agree, they're such wonderful performances. So un-Gould like yet so entirely Gould-like too. Also, his ballades are great (though more standardly Gouldian) and the two Rhapsodies are also very nice.
You will never heard a more mezmerizing performance of the 1st and 2nd intermezzi of op.117 (I think that's the opus number)
;)
Oh, yes!
Gould's Brahms is sublime! I
strongly recommend his Ballades, Rhapsodies and late piano works.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y9QETRMTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Bill,
Having heard almost all of this set, I can safely say you should grab it if you see it in the used bins. Arrau's Brahms is wonderful. His gorgeous tone is put to good use and his technique is never in question. Great stuff!
Lupu is very good too, his set is in print and well worth checking out.
Quote from: George on August 17, 2010, 07:14:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y9QETRMTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Bill,
Having heard almost all of this set, I can safely say you should grab it if you see it in the used bins. Arrau's Brahms is wonderful. His gorgeous tone is put to good use and his technique is never in question. Great stuff!
Lupu is very good too, his set is in print and well worth checking out.
The Brahms recording from him which I like the most isn't in that box. It's a live recording of the Handel Variations on Ermitage (it comes with Gaspard and something else -- can't remember) Anyway, it's one of those special Arrau moments of intensity, like his Schumann Fantasie on Ermitage.
What do you think of the Paganini Variations on that set? Too slow?
If you're interested in the later stuff, then the two discs which have given me a lot of pleasure are Ranki's and (most of all) Yudina's -- you have Yudina's Intermezzoss I think because the come on her CD of the Hammerklavier. Those performances seem to me to find more variety of feeling, and to be played with more forcefulness, than Lupu (Arrau of course doesn't play late Brahms) It seems to me that most pianists do two emotions in late Brahms -- hectoring-maudlin and (rarely) hectoring-merry. I want a bit more than that!
Other composers whose late Brahms seems to be very effective are Gieseking, Richter (try the amazing intermezzo that comes as an encore to the Leipzig Beethoven concert, or the Brahms/Bach disc on Live Classics, or his Handel Variations) and Gilels (the Orfeo record with Op 116 is a great recording -- very candid and authentic expression to my ears (I'm not sure that means anything! Also outstanding is the PV Bk 1 on a recording from Japan with Schumann's Symphonic Etudes.) And you know, Rubinstein and Kempff are good in a way: for Kempff go to the 50s recording on his Great Pianists.
Possibly the single best Intermezzo recording I know is from Neuhaus on youtube. Unfortunately the rest of his Brahms on CD isn't quite up to this high standard.
There's also a good Yudina recording of the Handel Variations -- on Melodyia. I prefer it to the one on Vista Vera.
But the best Handel Variations is from Moiseiwitsch -- both recordings are good I think. And try Cherkassky(BBC) . I would say avoid Bolet's.
A disc to avoid, IMO, is Angelich's recording of the Intermezzi. Wooden. But there are good concert bootlegs knocking about all over the web. And there's also a great Brahms concert from Cassard on filestube.
Angelich's Paganini Variations are much better -- though they won't suit you if you're looking for a virtuoso performance in the style of Michelangeli. If you'll like Arrau though, you will like Angelich. He is very like Arrau in some ways.
Also disappointing for me was Backhaus (a set of early recording on Music and Arts) But I obviously have a blind spot for him since I think he's wack in everything.
Early Brahms I don't much care for.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2DdLzGcYIGQ
Gosh (antique expostulation, to demonstrate how old I am ), Mandryka, you really got me going there: after drinking in that Neuhaus Intermezzo - starts dryly but then an Innigkeit one seldom hears - I tried Gieseking in the same & a few more: very fluent, certainly, but lacking that inward quality - and then plunged into Op.24. Started with Fleisher because reading your well-considered reflections I thought "Hey, that Fleisher I have on LP wasn't so bad". Oh dear. My attention wandered, I thought "What's wrong - perhaps I am out of sympathy with this work, fergeddit", so I picked the pickup up after 15 or so minutes - couldn't continue. What a disappointment. Then Moisewitsch as you recommended (Testament; haven't listened to that for quite a while): bingo, instead of something like a dry Hindemith imitation there was an autumnal landscape with changing colours & figures, every variation a new character - when was it, '56? what palpable richness of sound in the playing. Then I followed up with the Arrau (Ermitage): better sound recording, less colouristic but stunning control of dynamics and voice-leading. This interpretation suggests to me a modernist dream of the baroque - the rococo dolls around 20' are just perfect. I finished with Petri (Naxos): despite unrewarding sound the way he lofts this performance gave me great pleasure and the sense that it was he who gave us the Brahms style for the modern age, perhaps via Busoni? Only then did I realise I had another Ermitage CD with Rudolf Serkin playing the variations in '57 - but saved that for another day. I had to chill out with some Piazzola in the fading afternoon sun & a cup of orange-scented tea.
Mandryka, where does Katchen's PVs rank for you among the aforementioned? He seems to take a virtuosic approach, but in a different sense than Michelangeli (my current favorite).
Quote from: RexRichter on August 18, 2010, 12:48:27 PM
Mandryka, where does Katchen's PVs rank for you among the aforementioned? He seems to take a virtuosic approach, but in a different sense than Michelangeli (my current favorite).
Lots of people like Katchen's Brahms, and I can see that he's very good. It's that there are pianists who I prefer slightly. You know, I rarely play his PVs: maybe I should. Maybe he will grow on me.
The Paganini Variations is my favourite Brahms.
Brahms gave an interview to Arthur M. Abell in Berlin in December 1891 in which he said:
"I have no patience with pianists who growl because of a few new difficulties. Shall progress stop because of a few hard nuts to crack? All my life I have been deeply interested in piano technique and I have endeavoured in my piano pieces to combine good musical ideas with new piano idioms. You will find this new technique particularly in my "Paganini Variations" and in my Capricci. I admit that many of the passages lie awkwardly for the hands. This new kind of technique seems at first inconvenient ("unbequem") because arms, hands and fingers are used in a new way. This new idiom requires greater strength, freedom and independence of fingers than the traditional, classical piano technique. But this is no reason why my innovations should be called unpianistic ("unclaviermassig"). I know that there are some very mean passages in the Paganini Variations but my original intention when I wrote them in 1866 was that they should be for technical exercises for practice only. It was not until later, when urged by Tausig, Bulow and Clara Schumann that I decided to have them published as concert pieces. I consider my "Handel Variations" more important musically than the "Paganini Variations". (First printed: December 1931
Etude . )
Just shows how wrong a composer can be about his own music. I was surprised that Brahms was so clear about the musical superority of the Handel Variations, but I haven't studied the music.
It would be interesting to know what the musicologists and performers here think.
Quote from: mjwal on August 18, 2010, 10:02:17 AM
Gosh . . . tea.
LOL
There's a sort of whimsy about some of Gieseking's Brahms which I like -- in Op 118/5.
I saw Fleisher here in London a couple of years ago, but the only Brahms he played was the transcription for the Left Hand of the Bach Chaconne.
QuotePossibly the single best Intermezzo recording I know is from Neuhaus on youtube. Unfortunately the rest of his Brahms on CD isn't quite up to this high standard.
I have that Intermezzo from Neuhaus on CD, it's really beautiful.
Quote from: SonicMan on January 25, 2008, 09:31:03 AM
Bill - I went through this process a few years ago - had a couple of CDs of Brahms solo piano works (mentioned already here), but wanted a more 'complete' package, so I bought the Katchen set, and was generally pleased - the recordings date mainly from the 1960s; the reviews were mostly favorable (including comments from this forum at the time) - still have a Goode disc, but would be willing to hear others - thus, will be quite interested in this thread - Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517N6Q5Cu0L._AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Y16GN66L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
BOY - this is a SLOW thread for such wonderful music! :D
Since my post 2 1/2 yrs ago - WOW! I've added an additional 'box set' from Brilliant w/ multiple pianists (image added above) - great price for the number of discs offered - possibly another option for consideration here? :)
Quote from: Bogey on January 24, 2008, 07:32:05 PM
What specific recordings do you have that you enjoy? Thanks!
In Sonata op.5 I like Kocsis (also Rubinstein '59, Sokolov, Freire), Ballades op. 10 Michelangeli (either DG or live), Paganini Variations also Michelangeli (from Warsaw), for middle and late pieces first of all I like Rubinstein, he didn't record all, and recorded some more than once, and it's scattered all over Rubinstein Collection - vols. 10, 21, 64 would cover most ground, those would be '41 and '53 recordings. Yudina is superb (the disc with Beethoven's op.106), op.119/3 excepted - way to severe for its own good. Richter's few encore pieces from Leipzig are simply amazing - 118/6 is some of the finest piano playing I ever heard. Also like Pogorelich DG disc when I'm in the mood. Bashkirov recorded some excellent Brahms: 2nd Sonata, my asolutely favorite reading of Capriccio op.76/2, and 118/6 Intermezzo even if not match for Richter then more than fine. For complete 117-119 set Lupu is my first choice.
Bashkirov's Capriccio op.76/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdBA1Durhuc
With reference to Richter's late Brahms, Drasko - I don't know the Leipzig recordings, but the 3 Op.118 he recorded in Salzburg in '72: 1, 3 and 6 are stunning (Melodiya-BMG). I took an anthology (a CD I put together) of late Brahms with Lupu, Kempff etc to Berlin last winter - but forgot this, which blows them all away. Each of the three seems to contain a world, landscape vistas, social gatherings, lonely anguish...Lupu makes a very introverted and impressionistic effect by comparison, lovely but one to doze along to. I regret not knowing the Judina - I have her Hammerklaviersonate on LP, which doesn't include them, but will keep a look out, as she is one of the great originals of the last century, fascinating even when she is infuriating.
Like Mandryka, I cannot get very excited about what he calls "early Brahms" - anything before Op.15 for me. I cannot resonate with his preference of the Paganini Variations to anything else by Brahms, though, certainly not when I hear those Richter Op.118. I've just put on Richter's own recording (Takasaki, '86) of Op.35, which feels just a tad uncertain at the beginning and then settles down to a brilliant and multifarious display - but I miss those vistas and the pain, even if the rococo dolls number (as in Op.24) is to die for. This is followed on the Doremi CD by 4 pieces from Op.116 (Cesena '92); I think they, with the three pieces from 118 (two or more versions?) and the E-flat Rhapsody from Op.119 (of which I have 2 versions), are all we've got of his late Brahms piano works. Somebody please tell me if there's any more!
Quote from: mjwal on August 19, 2010, 08:02:05 AM
With reference to Richter's late Brahms, Drasko - I don't know the Leipzig recordings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crrxk6ptsFc
Thanks - lovely, though I prefer the Salzburg recording by a fine hair or two. Pity there isn't a link to the Judina on line.
Quote from: mjwal on August 25, 2010, 04:38:40 AM
Pity there isn't a link to the Judina on line.
Here -- brace yourself, this is no ordinary performance
http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=06e7ef7
Quote from: mjwal on August 25, 2010, 04:38:40 AM
Thanks - lovely, though I prefer the Salzburg recording by a fine hair or two. Pity there isn't a link to the Judina on line.
I assume you mean Yudina?
Quote from: George on August 25, 2010, 11:27:09 AM
I assume you mean Yudina?
Well Yudina was jewish. ;)
;D
George:
I assume you mean Yudina? Quote from: Mandryka on August 25, 2010, 11:43:58 AM
Well Yudina was Jewish. ;)
Sorry about that - I have had flak for writing Schönberg in some online discussion, too; I am not German but bought a lot of my records there. In German the "Y" sound is a "J", so her name is transliterated Judina, and as Mandryka almost points out, her name was of course derived from the German for Jew anyway (a Jewess is "Jüdin" in German).
Thanks for the wonderful Yudina Brahms Op.118/6, Mandryka: this is the the bare forked animal, indeed, with the use of those clipped notes at the beginning ratcheting up the tension and apprehensiveness, worlds away from Lupu, no consoling nostalgia here - it's almost "Bong!Mister - Bong! Mister - Bong! Mister - Bong!". Like Richter's version, it is a whole world she shows us, not a candle-lit cottage with autumnal reverie. My whole conception of Brahms has begun to suffer a sea-change, partly as a result of the discussion here (I have begun to view the songs differently, too - but that demands a separate thread.)
I have a dissuggestion.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SLsWDgO5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I've not explored the works enough to give a truly good suggestion, but I can say that the above set sounded just like a lot of banging, and it wasn't very enjoyable to my ears at all.
Quote from: Philoctetes on August 26, 2010, 06:31:29 AM
I have a dissuggestion.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SLsWDgO5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I've not explored the works enough to give a truly good suggestion, but I can say that the above set sounded just like a lot of banging, and it wasn't very enjoyable to my ears at all.
;D
Quote from: mjwal on August 19, 2010, 08:02:05 AM
Like Mandryka, I cannot get very excited about what he calls "early Brahms" - anything before Op.15 for me. ... / ...
I also do love the late Brahms piano. Beautiful small gems, so different from Brahms large symphonic first sonatas. And I also confess I may not always be drawn into the more virtuosistic side of the Variations. But some of the early Brahms pieces can also be very poetic and rewarding. I would remind, and recommend, Sokolov renditions of the F minor Sonata (Op.5) and the Ballades Op.10 (1992-93, Opus 111).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J9XBB9Q4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: mjwal on August 19, 2010, 08:02:05 AM
... / ... I've just put on Richter's own recording (Takasaki, '86) of Op.35, which feels just a tad uncertain at the beginning and then settles down to a brilliant and multifarious display - but I miss those vistas and the pain, even if the rococo dolls number (as in Op.24) is to die for. This is followed on the Doremi CD by 4 pieces from Op.116 (Cesena '92); I think they, with the three pieces from 118 (two or more versions?) and the E-flat Rhapsody from Op.119 (of which I have 2 versions), are all we've got of his late Brahms piano works. Somebody please tell me if there's any more!
AFAIK, these are Richter's recordings of Brahms piano solo issued in CD :
Sonata No.1 Op.1 – 1986, Mantua - DECCA; 1988, Tours - PHILIPS; 1988, Hasselburg - RCA; 1988, Prague - PRAGA
Sonata No.2 Op.2 – 1984, Pizen - PRAGA; 1986, Mantua – DECCA; 1988, Tours – PHILIPS
Ballades Op. 10 No.1, 2 – 1965, New York - DOREMI; 1992, Kempten - LIVE CLASSICS
Variations on a Hungarian Song Op.21 No.2 – 1984, Prague - PRAGA
Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel Op.24 – 1988, Krasnojarsk - DOREMI
Variations on a Theme by Paganini Op.35 – 1986, Takasaki – DOREMI; 1988, Tours - PHILIPS
Capriccio Op.76 No. 8 – 1966, Locarno – PHILIPS
Rhapsody Op.79 No.2 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, New York - ASDISC
Capriccio Op.116 No. 3, 7 – 1964, Moscow CDVE; 1992, Cesena - DOREMI
Intermezzo Op.116 No. 5 – 1964, Moscow CDVE; 1966, Locarno PHILIPS; 1992, Cesena - DOREMI; 1992, Kempten - LIVE CLASSICS
Intermezzo Op.116 No.6 – 1964, Moscow CDVE; 1992, Cesena - DOREMI; 1992, Kempten - LIVE CLASSICS
Intermezzo Op.118 No.1 – 1954, Budapest - BMC; 1965, New York - DOREMI; 1971, Salzburg - MELODIYA/JVC
Ballade Op.118 No.3 – 1963, Leipzig - MUSIC & ARTS; 1965, New York - DOREMI;
1966, Locarno PHILIPS; 1971, Salzburg - MELODIYA/JVC
Intermezzo Op.118 No.6 – 1954, Budapest - BMC; 1963, Leipzig - MUSIC & ARTS; 1965, New York – DOREMI;
1971, Salzburg - MELODIYA/JVC
Intermezzi Op.119 No.1, 2 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev TNC; 1992, Kempten - LIVE CLASSICS
Intermezzo Op.119 No.3 – 1963, Leipzig - MUSIC & ARTS; 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev - TNC
Rhapsody Op.119 No.4 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev - TNC; 1966, Locarno -PHILIPS
Thanks for the list - as I don't go for those sonatas much, I only lack recordings of op.119/1-3 by him. I'll keep a look-out.
Quote from: ccar on September 05, 2010, 05:05:37 AM
AFAIK, these are Richter's currently issued CD recordings of Brahms piano solo:
Rhapsody Op.79 No.2 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, New York - ASDISC
Intermezzi Op.119 No.1, 2 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev TNC; 1992, Kempten - LIVE CLASSICS
Intermezzo Op.119 No.3 – 1963, Leipzig - MUSIC & ARTS; 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev - TNC
Rhapsody Op.119 No.4 – 1965, Bergamo – EMI; 1965, Kiev - TNC; 1966, Locarno -PHILIPS
Wow, I have "The Complete EMI Recordings Box" by Richter and it doesn't have any of these 1965 Bergamo recordings. :-\
From Trovar:
[ labelled 13 April 1965, possibly Bergamo 27 March 1965 ]
EMI Italy 093 2538192 (CD) [ only available to customers of the Italian bank "CAB" ]
Anyone actually have that CD?
Recently listened to the Rhapsodies, Op 79, in a recording by Martha Argerich, her first release on DG, recorded in 1961 (when she was 20). Wonderful music, and striking performances (although I don't have much basis for comparison) with fierce and gentle moments both handled with grace. These recordings are included in the "Argerich Collection 1" (solo piano recordings). Collection 2 (concerti) is also available with collection 3 (chamber music) soon to appear.
Quote from: George on September 06, 2010, 05:00:06 AM
Wow, I have "The Complete EMI Recordings Box" by Richter and it doesn't have any of these 1965 Bergamo recordings. :-\
From Trovar:
[ labelled 13 April 1965, possibly Bergamo 27 March 1965 ]
EMI Italy 093 2538192 (CD) [ only available to customers of the Italian bank "CAB" ]
Anyone actually have that CD?
Unfortunately I don't. I have all the others in the Brahms piano solo list but this was indeed a limited EMI Italy edition, and obviously a very difficult one to get. But I'm sure Paul Gefen or Ates Tatin must have it.
Quote from: ccar on September 06, 2010, 12:11:25 PM
Unfortunately I don't. I have all the others in the Brahms piano solo list but this was indeed a limited EMI Italy edition, and obviously a very difficult one to get. But I'm sure Paul Gefen or Ates Tatin must have it.
Oh, thanks. Hopefully they are very similar to the ones in the Kiev set, with the exception of the Op. 79, No. 2 Rhapsody, which is not in the Keiv. They are from the same year.
The single recording that first got me involved with Brahms Op. 117, 118 and 119 was the old Columbia LP with Gould. It is very difficult to locate on CD. Gould was, well, very un-Gouldian with his Brahms. But his recordings, esp. Op. 118 #1 and #2 are what I still keep in my mind when I sometimes feebly attempt to play these pieces myself. Thank you Mr. Gould for opening my mind.
Quote from: anasazi on September 16, 2010, 04:43:09 PM
The single recording that first got me involved with Brahms Op. 117, 118 and 119 was the old Columbia LP with Gould. It is very difficult to locate on CD. Gould was, well, very un-Gouldian with his Brahms. But his recordings, esp. Op. 118 #1 and #2 are what I still keep in my mind when I sometimes feebly attempt to play these pieces myself. Thank you Mr. Gould for opening my mind.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517N92QWK9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
And that's not the only re-issue of those recordings listed on Amazon (search "Glenn Gould Brahms")
I suspect Columbia/Sony have reissued every Gould recording they can get their hands on at least two or three times.
Quote from: kishnevi on September 16, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517N92QWK9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
And that's not the only re-issue of those recordings listed on Amazon (search "Glenn Gould Brahms")
I suspect Columbia/Sony have reissued every Gould recording they can get their hands on at least two or three times.
The best sounding version I have heard (I've only compared the recent remaster and the one you posted) is the one pictured above. Great performances, for sure. :)
Quote from: George on September 16, 2010, 07:50:38 PM
The best sounding version I have heard (I've only compared the recent remaster and the one you posted) is the one pictured above. Great performances, for sure. :)
Just listen to the way he separates the voices in the final third of Op 117/3.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2LCXVXslcEw
I think this is a very late recording. Whatever -- it suggests to me that Gould was on the verge of some real artistic breakthroughs towards the end of his life.
Op 117/3 has done incredibly well on record. It must be that magic C sharp minor again :)
I wonder what Brahms would say if he could hear this one from Pogorelich.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0RI-yp9QfcU
Quote from: Mandryka on October 28, 2010, 01:12:22 AM
Just listen to the way he separates the voices in the final third of Op 117/3.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2LCXVXslcEw
I think this is a very late recording. Whatever -- it suggests to me that Gould was on the verge of some real artistic breakthroughs towards the end of his life.
Op 117/3 has done incredibly well on record. It must be that magic C sharp minor again :)
I wonder what Brahms would say if he could hear this one from Pogorelich.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0RI-yp9QfcU
Perhaps the acolytes would all be telling him to stop, but then Brahms, interested, would nod to continue. Surely he never heard it like that? That's such a great comparison.
CONFESSION:
Other than the CQ and CS, I've never, never even payed any mind to Brahms. He was always right there in the middle of the 1800s like so much Romantic Watermark that I just ASSUMED!!!,... buuuuuuuut,
this Thread, which I went through last night, led me to YouTube the Gould Intermezzi, and, I gotta say, this is the stuff right here. Chime me in for liking the Late Brahms Piano Music! oh course, what's not to like?
Gould never makes a hard sound, which is why I don't understand the Kempff thing. I listened to the same piece by both, and Kempff sounded hard by comparison, 'hectoring' the notes,... stentorian? Gould???,...like butta! :-* Did Pogo do the late stuff? Who IS the Dr. McDreamy of Brahms?
oh, and how bout it? I just learned another "famous" tune: the Intermezzo in b-flat minor! What movie was that? I love it when I find I've heard one of the 'chestnuts' my whole life, haha.
So, thanks to the Thread for roping in another one. And the scales fell.
Just kidding! :-*
I'll take Brahms piano pieces any day over Chopin.
I'll take Brahms, Beethoven and Schubert on the piano. I wish Brahms would have written some middle and later period piano sonatas.
I know people often talk more about Brahms' later piano works, and rightfully so.
Let us not forget the early piano gems, such as the Op.5 Piano Sonata, the Paganini, Schumann and Handel variations, and the Op.10 Ballades.
And any of his works (several) that were transcribed for Four-hands piano.
Quote from: snyprrr on October 29, 2010, 08:02:53 AM
Just kidding! :-*
You have to be. Everyone knows the next batch worthy of discussion are the latist but not too late yet not really early-middle-ish...
Quote from: Mandryka on October 28, 2010, 01:12:22 AMI wonder what Brahms would say if he could hear this one from Pogorelich.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0RI-yp9QfcU
He's say, "awesome!"
Quote from: ChamberNut on October 29, 2010, 08:04:47 AM
I'll take Brahms piano pieces any day over Chopin.
Ouch! (Unhelpfully, I do like both, a very great deal.)
Any of the pink discs in the Brahms' Box! :P
"Late" Brahms begins with the Opus 5.
Quote from: ChamberNut on October 29, 2010, 08:04:47 AM
I'll take Brahms piano pieces any day over Chopin.
I couldn't live without either!
QuoteI'll take Brahms, Beethoven and Schubert on the piano.
Who are some of your favorites in Schubert's piano works?
QuoteI wish Brahms would have written some middle and later period piano sonatas.
You can sorta have your cake and eat it too with Brahms's chamber works
with piano. That's because these works are often so piano-centered it's almost like listening to a solo piano piece with great string playing thrown in for good measure. :D
Quote from: ChamberNut on October 29, 2010, 08:04:47 AM
I'll take Brahms piano pieces any day over Chopin.
I'll take Brahms, Beethoven and Schubert on the piano. I wish Brahms would have written some middle and later period piano sonatas.
I'm with you.
Listen to this Prelude
http://www.youtube.com/v/cNxYr-qU2w4
Or this Nouvelle Etude (sorry it's an antique but I can't see one I know with better sound)
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZItBrjyy0PY
Now, I don't know about music really, but don't those Chopin pieces sound like they could have been written by Brahms to you?
I don't play piano, so I'm constantly surprised by the extent to which the score underdetermines the performance. Contrast
Ignaz Tiegerman in Op 118/5 (which I only discovered yesterday :))
http://www.youtube.com/v/ywuTgwaRjN0
with Gieseking (which I have known for a long long time)
http://www.youtube.com/v/YRoa_Y6QElc
Nice videos.
I've always thought that Brahms was more about creating this certain type of heavy atmosphere that is uniquely his own. This is probably why some people might find him boring- or, in the case of Tchaikovsky, (so I heard) being annoyed that he isn't more directly melodic.
Quote from: Philoctetes on October 29, 2010, 08:40:26 PM
I'm with you.
Me 3.
Although it's interesting that he's one of the few composers that has his own sound from op.1 up until the end. You can tell his first piano sonata could have only been written by him- it has that Brahms atmosphere to it.
If you compare it with something like Prokofiev's op.1 1st Piano Sonata, that could probably have been written by Rachmaninoff, more or less.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51miGxhCWeL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Out later in the month, for me this is the most anticipated recording of the year, i love the Handel Variations, and Murray Perahia is quite a genius, ever since i heard that he was going to do a Brahms recital, i've been looking out for this, hope it doesn't disappoint.
And i hope he follows it up by recording the Ballades, the Op117 Intermezzi, and the Paganini Variations.
For the Schumann, Handel, and Paganini variations this remarkable disc by the fiery Dutch pianist - Ivo Janssen - sets the bar high:
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 25, 2008, 09:31:03 AM
Bill - I went through this process a few years ago - had a couple of CDs of Brahms solo piano works (mentioned already here), but wanted a more 'complete' package, so I bought the Katchen set, and was generally pleased - the recordings date mainly from the 1960s; the reviews were mostly favorable (including comments from this forum at the time) - still have a Goode disc, but would be willing to hear others - thus, will be quite interested in this thread - Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517N6Q5Cu0L._AA240_.jpg)
I am very happy so far with the Katchen set, of which I just received. Also, I've been very impressed with Valery Afanassiev's amazing disk of Brahms late solo piano works...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5171EB8UxJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
8)
Well, i've been exploring some of the recordings mentioned here. Here's some of my impressions.
Arrau. Don't like him much. I have the same issue with his Beethoven set, i find his style plodding and suffocating. He was great in his younger years but his abilities didn't age all that well. IMHO at any rate.
Katchen. His heart is in the right place, but i think the music is much too complicated for him. He gets into the right spirit of things and has an accurate sense of rhythm (which is probably why he does so well in the chamber pieces). Alas, he handles difficult passages with the delicacy and sophistication of a charging bull. Way too much detail is lost by this approach.
Gilels. The man seemed to have struggled for years to find a style that was technically articulated to the extreme without being any less artistic for it. And what does he do once he finds it? He dies! The nerve. That said, i don't think his approach here works as well as it did in his late Beethoven, but he still manages to pull off a good compromise between technical perfection and artistic expression. Wish he had lived long enough to record more.
Zimerman. He's kinda like Gilels. Supreme technical perfection without necessarily sacrificing artistry. Works very well in some places, but i find his Brahms to be just out of proportions. Its like he's trying to compensate for some perceived deficiency in the early style of Brahms (which admittedly is a bit dry) by going overboard with technical refinement. Still, i find his take on those early sonatas to be superior to Katchen, at the very least. I just wish he didn't play so much with dynamics, for one.
Lupu. Pretty much unmatched in the late pieces, and being that those late piano miniatures can be counted among the greatest music ever written by Brahms, it makes his set a definite keeper. He lacks a bit in dynamism but he makes up entirely in charm. Don't care for his recording of the opus 5 though. His style doesn't seem to work as well there.
Kovacevich. Like him in the Handel Variations. He has too much competition else where (like the late pieces).
Perahia. Never liked him, and probably never will. Bland bland bland. I do not understand what so many people seem to find in him.
Gould. Is there anything he has ever done besides those few Bach recordings that isn't utterly and completely cringe worthy? Don't answer that, there isn't. The man had the artistic sensibility of a transistor capacitor. I get that what he does is extremely impressive from a technical point of view but there's no excuse for being a smartass about it. He should have been beaten more as a child. That's the impression i get from the man.
Pogorelich (on the opus 79, haven't heard the rest). No. Just, no. His entire career in a nutshell. Some of his early recordings are amazing, but that's pretty it.
That's about it for now, will continue to explore since i'm not entirely happy about the recordings i have, one way or another. Except for Lupu maybe.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Perahia. Never liked him, and probably never will. Bland bland bland. I do not understand what so many people seem to find in him.
Must be his good looks.
BTW, i know this is about the solo piano music but i just acquired a recording of Solomon playing the d minor concerto, conducted by Kubelik, which is pretty amazing. My favored recording of this work as of yet.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Well, i've been exploring some of the recordings mentioned here....Arrau...Katchen...Gilels...Zimerman...Kovacevich...Perahia...Gould...Pogorelich..Lupu, maybe...
You're the world's toughest critic. Nobody satisfies you :D
I see you skipped Hélène Grimaud. Not surprising given how misogynistic you are. Even if you actually liked her Brahms (she's recorded the late works twice...they mean that much to her) I doubt you'd admit it ;D
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 17, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
You're the world's toughest critic. Nobody satisfies you :D
I see you skipped Hélène Grimaud. Not surprising given how misogynistic you are. Even if you actually liked her Brahms (she's recorded the late works twice...they mean that much to her) I doubt you'd admit it ;D
Sarge
I heard her Bach. I found it to be dreadful. Nothing to do with my "misogyny", but i know its pointless to escape the charge, so believe what you want to believe. Feminism and other forms of modern relativism are the least of my concerns this days. Not after discovering the works of Rene Guenon and Frithjof Schuon. I've long since transcended neo-Platonism, and i would include Weininger in the latter, due to the new vistas opened by their work.
That said, anybody who ends up being mentioned on Oprah is going to have an hard time with me, female or either wise.
Quote from: Leo K on April 07, 2012, 09:52:32 AM
I am very happy so far with the Katchen set, of which I just received. Also, I've been very impressed with Valery Afanassiev's amazing disk of Brahms late solo piano works...
Hey
Leo - BOY, a quote of a post I left back in 2008 - yikes! ;D
Well since that time I have picked up the 6-CD box below from Brilliant w/ 5 different pianists performing these works, including
Helene Grimaud & Hakon Austbo - will plan a repeat listen in the near future; the price is unbeatable! Dave :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Y16GN66L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
I heard her Bach. I found it to be dreadful.
I'll assume you're talking about Grimaud's disc containing a keyboard concerto, a few WTC pairings and some transcriptions. Can't say she's my cup of tea, but I find her Bach satisfying. She's better suited for Brahms.
SO how about dem Brahms solo works? :-\
Good morning, George! Just now digging Håkon Austbø in the Op.79 Rhapsodies . . . .
Quote from: George on April 18, 2012, 06:10:50 AM
SO how about dem Brahms solo works? :-\
Hi
George - yes, thought that my eyes were going out of focus in this thread, so agree let's return to the point of the thread! :D
Currently listening to the first two discs from the box below - 5 different pianists; short comments reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=99604), for those interested.
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BrahmsPianoMusic/922027706_aSGAx-O.jpg)
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 18, 2012, 08:01:40 AM
If Tchaikovsky was not interested in Brahms, it may well be because he was striving for an entirely different use of the musical language.
Well, yes. However, you've just implied that there isn't a single "correct" thing that music is aiming for and I have this nasty feeling this smacks of relativism...
(PS I love Brahms, hence clicking on this thread. I don't particularly love Tchaikovsky, hence not clicking on any Tchaikovsky threads yet, although the work I've heard is fine. I draw conclusions about my own tastes from this, and what I'm looking for from music, rather than any conclusions about where God Almighty will place each of them on the official ranking table some people think he will reveal at the end of time.)
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Arrau. Don't like him much. I have the same issue with his Beethoven set, i find his style plodding and suffocating. He was great in his younger years but his abilities didn't age all that well. IMHO at any rate.
Try to hear the live Handel Variations on Ermitage or Haensler. The studio Pagaini VAriations is one of my favourite recordings: I hate the virtuoso style of early and middle period Michelangeli. Arrau is an antedote -- and there's tremendous integrity to the performance.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Katchen. His heart is in the right place, but i think the music is much too complicated for him. He gets into the right spirit of things and has an accurate sense of rhythm (which is probably why he does so well in the chamber pieces). Alas, he handles difficult passages with the delicacy and sophistication of a charging bull. Way too much detail is lost by this approach.
That's true -- have you heard his record of the second piano trio with Suk and Starker?
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Gilels. The man seemed to have struggled for years to find a style that was technically articulated to the extreme without being any less artistic for it. And what does he do once he finds it? He dies! The nerve. That said, i don't think his approach here works as well as it did in his late Beethoven, but he still manages to pull off a good compromise between technical perfection and artistic expression. Wish he had lived long enough to record more.
Which records led you to this view of his development?
By the way, be sure to hear Schnabel's Brahms intermezzi, and Moiseiwitsch's Haendel Variations, and Richter's Op 116-119.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 18, 2012, 09:18:56 AM
That's true -- have you heard his record of the second piano trio with Suk and Starker?
I have the whole set. Its very good, but i tend to like his violin sonatas better, always with Suk. Starker's take on the cello sonatas is also pretty definitive. Right now i'm actually enjoying the Wanderer in the trio. They are sort of like Florestan used to be at the time they recorded their Beethoven. Bright and dynamic without losing any detail in the process.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 18, 2012, 09:18:56 AM
Which records led you to this view of his development?
I can't say with exactness but i think the most glaring sign he was searching for a particular style is demonstrated by the sheer stylistic variety of his early records. Sometimes its hard to believe it is the same man playing in all of them. Then later in his career we can see a certain level of uniformity making itself felt.
Also, if you watch some of the live performances he recorded during the same time he was making the Beethoven set it feels like you are listening straight out of the studio version of a given piece. Considering how incredibly detailed his studio recordings are, particularly those of the late sonatas, it is remarkable that he was able to achieve the same identical effect live without any help from studio magic and post editing.
I have had a challenging time with much of Brahms solo piano music, mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones. As an experiment, I have burned two 80 minute CD-Rs, one with "mellow" works on it, the other with more "brusque" stuff. I suspect that listening to them this way may make them easier for me to enjoy. I used works from the Katchen set, specifically: The Op. 9 Schumann Variations (is this an underrated, underrecorded work, or what?) and Opuses 10, 76, 79, 116-119.
I'll listen to these two disks in the next few days and report back.
Quote from: George on September 05, 2012, 02:58:42 PM
.....mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones.
Sounds like Chopin. ;D
Quote from: George on September 05, 2012, 02:58:42 PM
I have had a challenging time with much of Brahms solo piano music, mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones. As an experiment, I have burned two 80 minute CD-Rs, one with "mellow" works on it, the other with more "brusque" stuff. I suspect that listening to them this way may make them easier for me to enjoy. I used works from the Katchen set, specifically: The Op. 9 Schumann Variations (is this an underrated, underrecorded work, or what?) and Opuses 10, 76, 79, 116-119.
I'll listen to these two disks in the next few days and report back.
Op 21/1's OK too. Richter's playing that (nicely) on youtube. Does anyone know if it's been published on CD?
Steve Emerson digitised Beveridge Webster playing op 9. It's good. I think he put it on youtube but I expect he'll let you have the files. Also Mikhael Rudy's record on spotify.
I'm not sure about what you say about introvert and extrovert, I need to think about it. I'm not sure to what extent the juxtaposition is just part of the Brahms thing, like with Schumann. Also I suspect that some performances overplay the mood differences by making the calmer music too calm.
Oh here's the wonderful Richter Op 21/1
http://www.youtube.com/v/9ZHbvEBUwPs
Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck
references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]
Quote from: amw on February 01, 2017, 04:17:34 AM
Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck
references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]
https://www.youtube.com/v/lEiMC3afXyc
Thank, much appreciated
a very good indeed
Quote from: amw on February 01, 2017, 04:17:34 AM
Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck
That Pletnev sounds wonderful! Thanks, Drasko.
Since the Pletnev isn't commercially available you might try Ivo Janssen. Janssen's take isn't as "visceral" as Pletnev but it has its good qualities. One advantage is the disc is filled with other variations: the Paganini and Schumann.
https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-VCW0C4HU
[asin]B000N7VPYU[/asin]
Quote from: amw on February 01, 2017, 04:17:34 AM
Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck
references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]
Ernst Levy.
I heard Pletnev play it in London, and I can let you have a decent transfer of the Wigmore Hall concert if you want.
I don't play piano, so I'm constantly surprised by the extent to which the score underdetermines the performance. Contrast
Ignaz Tiegerman in Op 118/5 (which I only discovered yesterday :))
thanks, Mandryka. This Tiegerman 188 Nr 5 is a great joy.
Quote from: MickeyBoy on February 02, 2017, 06:50:30 PM
I don't play piano, so I'm constantly surprised by the extent to which the score underdetermines the performance. Contrast
Ignaz Tiegerman in Op 118/5 (which I only discovered yesterday :))
thanks, Mandryka. This Tiegerman 188 Nr 5 is a great joy.
Do you mean Op.118/6? I don't see an Op.118/5 for that pianist.
Do you mean Op.118/6? I don't see an Op.118/5 for that pianist.
Ooops, sorry. I meant Op 118 Nr 5. Mandryka sent a link to a wonderful performance by I. Tiegerman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywuTgwaRjN0
Ok minor pet peeve re Brahms Handel Variations:
Way too many pianists slow down to heck for the big climactic variation 25—not sure whether they think that makes it grander and more impressive, or they're just worried about missing one of the left hand leaps.
[audio]https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxpacrt3hoszrwn/01-01%20-%20Unknown%20Artist%20-%20Unknown%20Title%281%29.mp3?raw=1[/audio]
It should be the same tempo as the previous two variations (which, by the way, is Vivace). Otherwise I feel like most of the effect is lost. Pianists should take heed from Julius Katchen, who wasn't afraid of a few missed notes in the interests of maintaining the musical line.
[audio]https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8n6bd1wihjynnm/01-01%20-%20Unknown%20Artist%20-%20Unknown%20Title.mp3?raw=1[/audio]
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 17, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
I heard her Bach. I found it to be dreadful. Nothing to do with my "misogyny", but i know its pointless to escape the charge, so believe what you want to believe. Feminism and other forms of modern relativism are the least of my concerns this days. Not after discovering the works of Rene Guenon and Frithjof Schuon. I've long since transcended neo-Platonism, and i would include Weininger in the latter, due to the new vistas opened by their work.
That said, anybody who ends up being mentioned on Oprah is going to have an hard time with me, female or either wise.
AH, THE GOOD OLE DAYS :laugh:
QuoteI found it to be dreadful. Nothing to do with my "misogyny"
Nothing like answering an imaginable charge, to give rise to the suspicion, is there?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 25, 2017, 06:40:54 AM
Nothing like answering an imaginable charge, to give rise to the suspicion, is there?
Actually it was a direct response to an accusation of misogyny.
It's also 5 years ago, from a poster who said something far more objectionable when claiming that op.5 qualified as late Brahms.
I had not yet joined the forum when "Josquin" was active but one could assume that he might have meant the one with op.5 being "late" jokingly while he apparently did mean his many reactionary remarks seriously.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 25, 2017, 07:09:38 AM
I had not yet joined the forum when "Josquin" was active but one could assume that he might have meant the one with op.5 being "late" jokingly while he apparently did mean his many reactionary remarks seriously.
Why could one assume that? Because we assume people wouldn't seriously say something so ridiculous?
This is pretty much how we got the current President of the USA. Just saying.
As Josquin seemed rather earnest most of the time, one can of course also assume that he meant the "late Brahms" remark seriously. Apparently he meant #78 seriously where he basically trashes Arrau, Katchen and others. But the remark on op.5 seems somewhat flippant to me, so because it is also obviously wrong in the way a judgment of taste on Arrau's playing is not, I found it not unlikely that this one might not have been meant seriously.
Quote from: ørfeo on July 25, 2017, 07:01:38 AM
Actually it was a direct response to an accusation of misogyny.
Ah, well, thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: ørfeo on July 25, 2017, 07:01:38 AM
Actually it was a direct response to an accusation of misogyny.
He was pretty open about his misogyny. Odd that his posts still have active links to his account, but his account does not appear in the member list.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 25, 2017, 06:40:54 AM
Nothing like answering an imaginable charge, to give rise to the suspicion, is there?
Because he asked for examples of GreatWomenComposers to compare with Brahms and Bach? Perhaps it is the Forum that has been feminized by the Frankfurt School, and actually suffers from misandry?
Quote from: ørfeo on July 25, 2017, 07:11:28 AM
This is pretty much how we got the current President of the USA. Just saying.
MAGA... WOOOOOO, 'MURICA!!
I think it's kind of cool that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, can make it into every single Thread on this august Forum. Thanks for paving the way to UniversalCoverage... opps, I mean UniversalConfeve!! I seek a day when EVERY THREAD ON THIS FORUM has been... implanted (you might say "infected") with the seminal traces of our Glorious and Beneficent Leader.
Thanks again ;)
(now I can see how the BlackPlague spread, lol)
But, I really was interested in Trump's Brahms's recommends. Someone already said I needed the Katchen set. How bout some cracklin' Brahms in scintillating modern sound? On SONY, or Philips, or....
FWIW, I am pretty sure Adorno would not have found any female composer the equal of Bach or Beethoven. It really irks me that people who probably have not read a single page of the original writings of Adorno, Horkheimer etc. attribute all contemporary stupidity in some vaguely academic guise to the "Frankfurt school". It is, at best, a trivialized or vulgarized version of some claims of the actual (1920-60s) Frankfurt school, but often not even that.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 27, 2017, 08:31:55 AM
But, I really was interested in Trump's Brahms's recommends. Someone already said I needed the Katchen set. How bout some cracklin' Brahms in scintillating modern sound? On SONY, or Philips, or....
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/131/MI0001131886.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Quote from: snyprrr on July 27, 2017, 08:31:55 AM
. How bout some cracklin' Brahms in scintillating modern sound? On SONY, or Philips, or....
(http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/9/9/1/a/4010276019237_300.jpg)
Quote from: George on July 27, 2017, 10:13:33 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/131/MI0001131886.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
ahhh, yes, just like that, will check....
Quote from: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 04:32:05 AM
(http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/9/9/1/a/4010276019237_300.jpg)
thx
Quote from: snyprrr on July 28, 2017, 09:47:45 AM
ahhh, yes, just like that, will check....
thx
A ten disc box of all his Brahms recordings is slated for release next month for under $30.
There's this:
[asin]B0009A1ALO[/asin]
which I have but haven't listened to. :(
Quote from: Scarpia on July 28, 2017, 10:17:24 AM
which I have but haven't listened to. :(
oy vey you classical hoaders ::) :P... shall I send you a shipping address?
Quote from: snyprrr on July 27, 2017, 08:31:55 AM
But, I really was interested in Brahms's recommends. Someone already said I needed the Katchen set. How bout some cracklin' Brahms in scintillating modern sound? On SONY, or Philips, or....
IMO Katchen is overrated anyway.....
Modern sound... but on a period instrument - (some of) the best Brahms I've heard in many years:
[asin]B016VJM3BM[/asin]
Personally I find it sensational...
Q
I asked once on the "recordings you are considering" thread about Jonathan Plowright on BIS. I've seen some rather good reviews, but people didn't seem to have heard him?
[asin]B01NB0AIYF[/asin]
[asin]B071LSSXG7[/asin]
The Nelson Freire is pre order, but I just saw it is already on qobuz.
(https://img.discogs.com/I4V3YsycxJUQM0NCc_EDWXYFVbM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-10033303-1490463715-6756.jpeg.jpg)
These Richter recordings are on streaming services now (I think they weren't there before, but maybe my searches were bad)
Very fine versions of Op 118/6 and 119/3
Quote from: Todd on July 28, 2017, 10:09:27 AM
A ten disc box of all his [Angelich] Brahms recordings is slated for release next month for under $30.
Yes, it is excellent!
Been listening to the Richard Goode recording on Elektra/Nonesuch. Really enjoy it.
Quote from: Selig on August 06, 2021, 02:44:04 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/I4V3YsycxJUQM0NCc_EDWXYFVbM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-10033303-1490463715-6756.jpeg.jpg)
These Richter recordings are on streaming services now (I think they weren't there before, but maybe my searches were bad)
Very fine versions of Op 118/6 and 119/3
I like this a lot too. Wish Richter had recorded more Brahms.
I wish Gilels had recorded more Brahms
Quote from: Holden on August 22, 2021, 01:21:09 PM
I wish Gilels had recorded more Brahms
Agreed, the DG 2CD with the concertos and the op.116 Fantasien is absolutely phenomenal.
Walter Klien on VoxBox was recommended to me here earlier and it is really wonderful. The sound quality is not that great, but the playing is so good you don't really pay attention to other things. He plays with Brendel on it too and it's just great.
Yesterday I listen to Wilhelm Kempff on DG. Mid 1960s recording. Good sound, but his playing is very much in Beethoven mode. Way too heroic. I didn't like it that much.
I haven't heard any of his DG Brahms, but 1960s Kempff might be among the least "heroic" Beethoven playing around...
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 22, 2021, 02:48:05 PM
Agreed, the DG 2CD with the concertos and the op.116 Fantasien is absolutely phenomenal.
YES!!
Quote from: Madiel on July 28, 2017, 04:57:31 PM
I asked once on the "recordings you are considering" thread about Jonathan Plowright on BIS. I've seen some rather good reviews, but people didn't seem to have heard him?
Well, response to a post from 2017, but no discussion was generated about
Jonathan Plowright - since this thread started (pre-2010), I've 'culled and added' Brahms piano recordings - now own the two below; Plowright as 5 separate CDs (below is his V.3; not sure if BIS has boxed these discs?) - at the moment I'm pleased w/ these selections - but since he has received little discussion excellent reviews are attached (all 5 reviewed in Fanfare, plus selections of the others from different sources, for those interested). Another pianist I considered was Barry Douglas but decided on Plowright. Dave :)
QuoteBrahms, Johannes - Piano Works w/ Geoffroy Couteau - another new box set recorded quickly (April though August of 2015) and in chronological order - reviews seem non-existent except for comments from the Amazonians. For myself, enjoying both Couteau and Plowright yesterday - if thinking of replacing one or several of your 'old' sets of these works, these pianists are worth a listen - both are available on Spotify (and I'm sure other online streaming services). Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41o7v9LrccL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51y0qUUCz%2BL.jpg)
Anyone have an opinion of the Gerhard Oppitz recordings of the complete piano music? He was a student of Kempff, I understand, so I am somewhat intrigued.
I heard some of the Oppitz years ago before it was boxed. It's not bad but not comparable with the poetic approach of Kempff, rather more prosaic. Katchen is superior as a complete recording.
Brahms' solo pieces are so different from each other that a complete recording is almost bound to be a mixed bag. There are the early works with romantic enthusiasm but some weaknesses in the early sonatas. Then a bunch of variations of which the Paganinis stick out as an almost Lisztian display of supervirtuosity (it's one of my least favorite Brahms pieces). Then the late pieces, often Brahms at his most pensive, lyrical and introvert and in between the rhapsodies and op.76 the only "middle period" solo piano Brahms.
I only have three volumes of the Plowright series but they are consistently excellent. Top tier of complete sets I think, although obviously almost all the "best" Brahms recordings are by individual pianists who didn't record cycles.
Well there you go, I was still wondering about the Plowright question and now I'm getting responses! ;D
EDIT: Also, back then I didn't have easy access to streaming... *goes to queue up some Plowright on Primephonic, he should be on there*
Quote from: Holden on August 22, 2021, 01:21:09 PM
I wish Gilels had recorded more Brahms
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 22, 2021, 02:48:05 PM
Agreed, the DG 2CD with the concertos and the op.116 Fantasien is absolutely phenomenal.
For sure, you had me spending the afternoon listening to a bunch of Gilels playing Brahms.
Op. 116, first piano quartet with Amadeus, horn trio on DG.
Melodiya live recordings from the Anniversary box - Romance in F major, op. 116 fantasies (1965), complete set of ballades (1977), Variations on a Theme for Paganini (1983) and various intermezzi.
A good afternoon and whole heartedly agree that I wish there was more (at the least one recording of op. 5 sonata would have been nice) ;D
Quote from: hvbias on August 24, 2021, 02:53:33 PM
For sure, you had me spending the afternoon listening to a bunch of Gilels playing Brahms.
Op. 116, first piano quartet with Amadeus, horn trio on DG.
Melodiya live recordings from the Anniversary box - Romance in F major, op. 116 fantasies (1965), complete set of ballades (1977), Variations on a Theme for Paganini (1983) and various intermezzi.
A good afternoon and whole heartedly agree that I wish there was more (at the least one recording of op. 5 sonata would have been nice) ;D
An afternoon well spent indeed.