If you ordered a CD that was listed as "Like New" and it arrived scratched (but still played fine), gave the seller a 3/5 rating, and he or she contacted you saying: "I'll give you a refund if you remove your feedback" would you do it?
My thinking is, the reason you give feedback is to warn other buyers, but then again, I don't make very much money and could use my money back. :-\
Quote from: George on January 26, 2008, 10:21:25 PM
If you ordered a CD that was listed as "Like New" and it arrived scratched (but still played fine), gave the seller a 3/5 rating, and he or she contacted you saying: "I'll give you a refund if you remove your feedback" would you do it?
My thinking is, the reason you give feedback is to warn other buyers, but then again, I don't make very much money and could use my money back. :-\
it happened to me once, I bought a CD, and it came in with a shattered case (the CD is mint though), I got pissed and wrote something not so nice on the review, he offer me the refund, and I took it. But, I had only to replace the case, which was not much trouble at all, and a shattered case might not have been their fault, so, i took my comment down when i got my refund.
Quote from: Gustav on January 26, 2008, 10:28:55 PM
it happened to me once, I bought a CD, and it came in with a shattered case (the CD is mint though), I got pissed and wrote something not so nice on the review, he offer me the refund, and I took it. But, I had only to replace the case, which was not much trouble at all, and a shattered case might not have been their fault, so, i took my comment down when i got my refund.
Yeah, that makes sense.
This guy was offering a refund if I first remove the feedback, not a refund first. If I take it down, I can't put another back up if he doesn't refund me. :-\
What about when you order a brand-new CD, from the Marketplace, because it's cheaper, and then it arrives contents okay, but with the case broken. And this was an SACD too. >:(
I left something like a 3 star feedback, but never was contacted by the seller. I guess he really didn't care. Or maybe I should have wrote something meaner in the feedback note...
Firstly, I don't buy used anymore - I don't ever want to get into a dialogue with a private person over a transaction (and I don't want a CD coming stinking of tobacco smoke). With regard to my other transactions, I keep a large supply of jewel cases and trays. I no longer quibble breakages of that nature, as it's not worth the hassle. The spares I buy in bulk and only cost me around 10p per complete case - big deal!
I think if you order "like new" the CD itself should be spotless, and the booklet in (very) good condition.
But I'm willing to accept a scruffy case - that can easily replaced.
Because my orders are transatlantic when I order in the US, there is always a higher risk that a case gets broken. I just replace the casing when it does happen once in a while - would only leave a negative feedback if the packaging was clearly inadequate. Because of the risks of transatlantic mail I tend to order (larger) sets in vulnerable (cardboard) layout in Europe with companies which I know to take extra care with packaging. (MDT for instance).
George, with the delivery of a scruffy CD this seller was clearly at fault. But it seems reasonable to give him a chance to correct this and to take the refund. I think future buyers will benefit nontheless, because the seller now has learned not to sell a scruffy CD "like new". If he doesn't keep his word, you could always inform Amazon of this (keep the email). I think generally the best strategy is first to complain with the seller and keep the option to leave a negative feedback open to "motivate" the seller... ;D This worked for me before.
Q
Interestingly the cheapest options in Amazon Marketplace are usually new CDs so I rarely buy them used. If I do, I have to get the CD for really low price and I am pretty much happy if the CD plays ok. ;D
One time I was offered refund. I never saw the money after removing my negative feedback! >:(
No, George, I wouldn't.
I've bought several used CDs from marketplace sellers (ever since ebay became worthless). Probably half arrive with cracked cases--easily replaced, as Que notes. Probably 3 out of 4 are as advertised. "Like new" should be just that--what's not to understand? "Very good" CDs should be unscratched, but perhaps with some flaws or marks on the packaging. My pet peeve with marketplace sellers is that some will send a club edition without noting that information in the description. That is deceptive and I almost always leave feedback about it, so prospective buyers have a chance to know what they're dealing with.
The worst are people who advertise CDs as "New" when they are obviously used (this is more common with books, though). I mean, I can understand if a guy has multiple CDs in different conditions how he may mix them up, but that still won't stop me giving him a 1 star review if I get it in shitty condition (the disc was 1p - so no refund is likely to be offered there, haha ;D).
I buy lots of used CDs and would prefer to buy used over new when the price is significantly cheaper. From my perspective, anything that's used can't be "like new", so when I buy a used CD I expect there to be some visible signs of wear regardless of the description and I make my purchasing decisions accordingly. To me, the music is the important thing so perfect condition isn't a concern as long as the CD plays properly. For those who want their CDs in perfect condition, buying used isn't a practical option.
As far as jewel cases go, they just don't travel well through the mail and I've received damaged cases on new and used CDs alike. It's just an unfortunate hazard you can't avoid unless you buy them in person. In the very few instances I've had a problem of any kind with an Amazon or ebay purchase, I've contacted the seller first and had the issue quickly resolved. I always assume that if something goes wrong, it's an honest mistake and give the other guy a chance to fix it first.
I just buy new directly from Amazon. I tried to order about 7 CD's one time through the Amazon marketplace, choosing the cheapest "new" CD's from the various marketplaces (ie. Caiman), and while the cost of the CD's would have been alot cheaper this way, the various astronomical shipping charges all added up, made the purchase directly via Amazon alot cheaper in the end.
Quote from: George on January 26, 2008, 10:21:25 PM
If you ordered a CD that was listed as "Like New" and it arrived scratched (but still played fine), gave the seller a 3/5 rating, and he or she contacted you saying: "I'll give you a refund if you remove your feedback" would you do it?
My thinking is, the reason you give feedback is to warn other buyers, but then again, I don't make very much money and could use my money back. :-\
depends on how much i paid for the Cd ;D
Quote from: ChamberNut on January 27, 2008, 04:54:27 AM
I just buy new directly from Amazon. I tried to order about 7 CD's one time through the Amazon marketplace, choosing the cheapest "new" CD's from the various marketplaces (ie. Caiman), and while the cost of the CD's would have been alot cheaper this way, the various astronomical shipping charges all added up, made the purchase directly via Amazon alot cheaper in the end.
Shipping costs to Canada must be significantly higher than shipping from US to UK. At £1.24 per item (CDs), that makes the process as "cheap as chips", to coin David Dickinson's phrase.
Quote from: Szykniej on January 27, 2008, 04:51:53 AM
As far as jewel cases go, they just don't travel well through the mail and I've received damaged cases on new and used CDs alike. It's just an unfortunate hazard you can't avoid unless you buy them in person. In the very few instances I've had a problem of any kind with an Amazon or ebay purchase, I've contacted the seller first and had the issue quickly resolved. I always assume that if something goes wrong, it's an honest mistake and give the other guy a chance to fix it first.
Replacement jewelcases are so cheap that I agree that it shouldn't be a problem. A broken jewelcase isn't the seller's fault, it's the moronic mail workers who played football with the parcel (I can't explain any other way that some of the packages I've sent people can have ended up so damaged).
Quote from: longears on January 27, 2008, 04:12:19 AM
(ever since ebay became worthless).
Interesting comment, as that's my feeling these days too, although your opinion may be based on different criteria than mine. For me it's a combo of rarely having what I want and then when a "want list" item of mine shows up the bidding goes above what I could buy it for at Amazon Marketplace.
Quote from: Szykniej on January 27, 2008, 04:51:53 AM
I buy lots of used CDs and would prefer to buy used over new when the price is significantly cheaper. From my perspective, anything that's used can't be "like new", so when I buy a used CD I expect there to be some visible signs of wear regardless of the description and I make my purchasing decisions accordingly. To me, the music is the important thing so perfect condition isn't a concern as long as the CD plays properly. For those who want their CDs in perfect condition, buying used isn't a practical option.
Exactly. But if the CD in question is OOP, you are urged to get it second-hand, if you want it.
I have acquired a few "like new" for that reason, and all of them were actually unused.
Either I have been fortunate, or maybe I purchase CDs nobody wants to hear.
I just sent the seller this email:
_____________________
My main reason for being honest in my feedback is to help other buyers. However, you seem to be aware of the feedback you get and will therefore hopefully post information on amazon with more care.
I have looked into this. If I remove my feedback and you don't refund my money, I cannot repost my feedback. Since this has happened to a friend of mine, I don't think it's a good idea for me.
However, if you first refund my money, you have my word that I will immediately remove my feedback.
George Perkins
Quote from: George on January 27, 2008, 05:42:26 AM
I just sent the seller this email:
_____________________
My main reason for being honest in my feedback is to help other buyers. However, you seem to be aware of the feedback you get and will therefore hopefully post information on amazon with more care.
I have looked into this. If I remove my feedback and you don't refund my money, I cannot repost my feedback. Since this has happened to a friend of mine, I don't think it's a good idea for me.
However, if you first refund my money, you have my word that I will immediately remove my feedback.
George Perkins
Sounds fair to me. George, out of curiosity, how much was the CD? (And what was it?)
ebay is pretty crappy now, rarely do you get a bargain deal. But, let's see, there is a rare Sinopoli's Bruckner's 8th on auction right now, it's by no means in Mint condition, but i still expect the end price to go through the roof.
Quote from: Szykniej on January 27, 2008, 04:51:53 AM
From my perspective, anything that's used can't be "like new", so when I buy a used CD I expect there to be some visible signs of wear regardless of the description
. Virtually all of the CDs that I bought new are still "like new." They've been stored and handled properly, have no scratches or fingerprints or globs of dried peanut butter on them, the jewel cases are clean and intact, and all the inserts are pristine. And 3 out of 4 used CDs I buy that are described as "like new" are the same. So when a seller advertises as "like new," that's exactly what I expect--a CD "package" that's indistinguishable from a new CD that's had the wrapping and seal removed.
Quote from: George on January 27, 2008, 05:42:26 AM
I just sent the seller this email:
_____________________
My main reason for being honest in my feedback is to help other buyers. However, you seem to be aware of the feedback you get and will therefore hopefully post information on amazon with more care.
I have looked into this. If I remove my feedback and you don't refund my money, I cannot repost my feedback. Since this has happened to a friend of mine, I don't think it's a good idea for me.
However, if you first refund my money, you have my word that I will immediately remove my feedback.
George Perkins
That's probably what I would do, too, George. I've held my tongue lots of times when I've been offered a 100% refund. Equitable, and it makes me happy.
As far as warning other potential buyers, you'd think handing out 100% refunds would prompt any seller to reform their ways. Or at least take a closer look at quality control.
In the end, probably makes for a better seller overall (keeping fingers crossed...).
It's kind of a tough question. Having been both a buyer and seller of used cds myself, I have my own way of dealing with sellers who do not exactly describe their cds - I keep a list of sellers that I don't buy from again. I'm never certain if feedback is enough. Does anyone really read through the feedback? Most sellers seem to have 95% or above. But if you have 4000 feedbacks (obviosly a big dealer) can it really be possible to have close to 100%? As a seller, I currently have 100% feedback, but I still have a couple of negative comments. Two (at least) were certainly my fault (once I inadvertently mailed the wrong cd). But in both cases, the buyer left me really negative feedback BEFORE or INSTEAD of sending me an e-mail to complain. In both cases I could have (and would have) made things right and at my own expense. Well, I still did that, but neither buyer retracted their negative feedback. In other words nobody really cares one way or the other it seems. Yet I continually receive cds listed as 'like new' that turn out to be former library cds, or have scratches, or gummy residue or something. How can these be like new? A couple of times I have left negative feedback, usually after not receiving a reply to a direct e-mail to the seller, politely asking for a refund. For some sellers, neither e-mails nor negative feedback seem to matter. But I guess if you have 4000 or 10000 feedbacks, how much is one or two going to matter?
Any more, when I purchase a used cd I try and find a seller who is more like myself, a private collector looking for a new home for a few cds. So I look for sellers with a feedback count of 100, 200 or 300, in other words, not a dealer. Of course I also look for 100%, but I know myself, that this is very difficult to achieve.
Yeah, grading can be a problem >:(
I usually buy 'new', but on the odd occasion when I want an OOP used title I'm very wary.
I just don't like used cds; they usually stink for some reason. [Same with library books - yuk!]
I replace broken or scratched jewelcases myself - no problem.
The issue with the 'grading' of used goods is that one person 'as new' can be quite different to another persons interpretation.
For me I'm anal about my music software collection and everything is in absolutely mint condition - no scratches, marks, fingerprints, creases etc.
I bought a used OOP cd a few months ago - described 'as new' and I was so dissappointed when I received it due to the poor condition it was in.
I guess buying used is very much a case of...buyer beware :)
Quote from: George on January 27, 2008, 05:42:26 AM
I just sent the seller this email:
_____________________
My main reason for being honest in my feedback is to help other buyers. However, you seem to be aware of the feedback you get and will therefore hopefully post information on amazon with more care.
I have looked into this. If I remove my feedback and you don't refund my money, I cannot repost my feedback. Since this has happened to a friend of mine, I don't think it's a good idea for me.
However, if you first refund my money, you have my word that I will immediately remove my feedback.
George Perkins
Just got this email from the seller:
___________
Refund complete.
Thank you for taking the time to resolve this and sorry I didn't examine the CD more thoroughly.
_____________
I checked my amazon account and the money was indeed refunded, so I removed my feedback.
Aww, a nice seller :)
I am sorry to read about the number of people who have been easily bribed by seller snakes.
I suggest you do not do this anymore. It keeps these snakes in business longer than they should be.
A reminder. Amazon guarantees an honest deal. You do not have to participate in bribery to get your money back. If the seller has not lived up to their claims and refuses to correct their mistakes (or thievery), Amazon will (as long as you are not a snake yourself) make good on your refund.
There have been some good suggestions on this thread. First and foremost, keep notes of both the good and the bad. I suggest once bitten, never deal with that seller again, even if you eventually received a refund from them.
No scratches, like new, new, are key words. And do read the ratings. ;)
Quote from: BorisG on January 27, 2008, 03:52:56 PM
A reminder. Amazon guarantees an honest deal. You do not have to participate in bribery to get your money back. If the seller has not lived up to their claims and refuses to correct their mistakes (or thievery), Amazon will (as long as you are not a snake yourself) make good on your refund.
As some people have found out, Amazon's "A-Z" thingy (if this is what you mean) is actually only good for three claims, if you get ripped off more than that, you're screwed...
Quote from: BorisG on January 27, 2008, 03:52:56 PM
I am sorry to read about the number of people who have been easily bribed by seller snakes.
I suggest you do not do this anymore. It keeps these snakes in business longer than they should be.
I fail to see how a seller who offers a refund when the item arrives in unsatisfactory condition is a "snake" because he or she asks for unfavorable feedback to be removed. (when in many cases items are damaged in shipment by the postal service). Buyers as well as sellers can abuse the system. In fact, a buyer who posts unfavorable feedback without giving the seller a chance to rectify the situation is technically in violation of Amazon marketplace policy and could with more justice be called a "snake."
I have had only one bad experience in the couple of hundred CD's and DVD's I have bought from Marketplace. And I gave the guy 1 star and a pretty bad review. He never responded to it (or to any of my emails), so I feel it was justified. Obviously he didn't care. I don't worry about jewel boxes either. I got a bunch of them. My concerns are the CD first, the booklet and case liner second. As long as they are as advertised, the jewel box doesn't matter to me. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Franck Violin Sonata - Gil Shaham / Gerhard Oppitz - Franck Sonata in A for Violin & Piano WoO 1st mvmt
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on January 27, 2008, 10:45:11 AM
The issue with the 'grading' of used goods is that one person 'as new' can be quite different to another persons interpretation.
True. At least with vinyl, there are the
Goldmine or other accepted standards to go by. The process is still greatly subjective, but at least there is a clear set of terms and descriptions for grading records that CDs don't have. Of course, CDs have far fewer variables of condition to consider.
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on January 27, 2008, 10:45:11 AM
For me I'm anal about my music software collection and everything is in absolutely mint condition - no scratches, marks, fingerprints, creases etc.
I wish that were true for me. The CDs currently in my listening rotation can be found in the back seat of my car, bouncing around in my briefcase, or under a pile of junk on my desk at work. :o
Quote from: Szykniej on January 27, 2008, 05:12:53 PM
I wish that were true for me. The CDs currently in my listening rotation can be found in the back seat of my car, bouncing around in my briefcase, or under a pile of junk on my desk at work. :o
Please stop...I feel a stroke coming on! ;)
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
As some people have found out, Amazon's "A-Z" thingy (if this is what you mean) is actually only good for three claims, if you get ripped off more than that, you're screwed...
US and UK are 5 claims. Canada is 3 claims.
Credit card chargeback is always an option.
Quote from: head-case on January 27, 2008, 04:37:25 PM
I fail to see how a seller who offers a refund when the item arrives in unsatisfactory condition is a "snake" because he or she asks for unfavorable feedback to be removed. (when in many cases items are damaged in shipment by the postal service). Buyers as well as sellers can abuse the system. In fact, a buyer who posts unfavorable feedback without giving the seller a chance to rectify the situation is technically in violation of Amazon marketplace policy and could with more justice be called a "snake."
If you read my OP again you will see that I allowed for snakes on either side of a deal.
A buyer could be premature, but I would say the more common incident occurs when a seller does not respond to an unhappy buyer until they see an unfavorable review. Then the snake seller has the audacity to bargain for the review's removal.
To hell with the snake seller. I suggest to the buyer to get the refund through A - Z or credit card chargeback, and let the review stay. The seller's crappy service was what it was.
Quote from: BorisG on January 27, 2008, 08:11:41 PM
If you read my OP again you will see that I allowed for snakes on either side of a deal.
A buyer could be premature, but I would say the more common incident occurs when a seller does not respond to an unhappy buyer until they see an unfavorable review. Then the snake seller has the audacity to bargain for the review's removal.
To hell with the snake seller. I suggest to the buyer to get the refund through A - Z or credit card chargeback, and let the review stay. The seller's crappy service was what it was.
In my case, I got the CD refunded and didn't have to return it.
Quote from: George on January 27, 2008, 08:16:45 PM
In my case, I got the CD refunded and didn't have to return it.
Yes, that's generally the way it works with me, too.
My kind of snake!! :D
When I order form Amazon marketplace, I always save the page with the description as a web archive (.mht file). If the description is not accurate, e.g. a "like new" CD should be like one which has been peeled from the shrinkwrap but there should be next to no usage marks on the booklet and CD. The case may be a little scratched, or as has been said, it happens that they break during shipping even when they are adequately packaged. Anything else, scratches which are asily visible or other signs of wear must be mentioned in the description. If not, I always contact the seller first *before* leaving negative feedback. In most cases, I get a reply and a partial refund. If not, I hit them with max negative feedback. That almost always triggers a reaction. One has to understand that a lot of these sellers aren't necessarily private collectors, many of them are second hand type mail order stores which process a lot of material. It shouldn't, but it can happen that someone overlooks a defect or describes an item too enthustically. But again, my experience has been that most sellers are responsive to complaints and often give a partial refund without much discusion.
Of course, I only bother with that if the CD cost more than just a handful of dollars. If it just cost $3.99, it's not really worth the hassle.