GMG Classical Music Forum

What can I say?  I like polls, they are meaningless fun!  I wish there was a section for all polls.

My three, with favorite performance:

3 - Celibidache/Munich Phil
8 - Szell/Cleveland
9 - Giulini/Vienna Phil

Sarge

My three are:

# 5
# 4
# 9

Currently listening to # 3 (Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden)

Currently my faves are 8, 5, 9 in that sequence.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2008, 05:12:28 AM
My three, with favorite performance:

3 - Celibidache/Munich Phil
8 - Szell/Cleveland
9 - Giulini/Vienna Phil

Sarge

#3 in d minor is starting to grow on me; but for now:

6
8
9

Quote from: Dm on February 05, 2008, 06:02:55 AM
#3 in d minor is starting to grow on me; but for now:

It took a while for me to appreciate it too. In fact, it was the first Bruckner symphony I ever heard and it put me off the composer for five years ;D But it, and Bruckner, eventually won me over.

Edit: just noticed the poll results. The Third has more votes than the Fourth! That's surprising.

Sarge

  Mine are :

  0 - thats the symphony that got me hooked on Bruckner
  4
  5

  marvin

Quote from: marvinbrown on February 05, 2008, 06:14:27 AM
Mine are :

0 - thats the symphony that got me hooked on Bruckner

Hey, Marvin. I wouldn't have bet that anyone would choose Die Nullte. Interesting. It is a good symphony. I think I'll listen to it now...it's been awhile since last I heard it.

Sarge

4,5,8 --- Unfortunately there's no room for No.7. The adagio written after the death of the "master of all masters" (wagners) is the best sad music I know. But I don't like the Sym. as a whole (don't listen to the 2 final movements very often).

No.4, andante quasi allegretto was my first Bruckner experience and love. No.5: Great symphony, my fave is the adagio, the oboe (or what is that in the beginning), the rhythm at 1/2 beat, then a lamento: gooood stuff. No.8: Great adagio. Symphony is mystic and full of tension. What a remarkable conclusion of the symphony.

I know many people like the ninth. Still didn't find out how I could fall in love with it.

All Wand/BPO.

BTW, Bruckner/Wagner. I once read Bruckners letters. Funny. His sweetest secret, which he admitted a friend was a meeting with Wagner. Wagner asked him about his opinion on one of his operas. Bruckner kneeled down and told something like  "oh my master, it was marvellous" and kissed his hand.... Can't remember, but IIRC wagner also had some good words for Bruckner, I think he promised to have a look on a bruckner symphony again, in his spare time... which almost led to orgiastic feelings on Bruckners side :)
Also there's a very interesting letter to König Ludwig where Bruckner was talking like "I'm a worm" and the king the "highest". Cannot translate this. He's asking King Ludwig for dedication of Sym.7, mentioning the funeral music for the master wagner...

QuoteEure königliche Majestät! Aufs tiefste ergriffen und im höchsten Gefühl der Freude bitte ich allerunterthänigst, Euere Majestät wolle allergnädigst gestatten, daß ich für die mir durch Allerhöchste Entschließung Euerer königlichen Majestät gewordene Allerhöchste Auszeichnung: die allerunterthänigste Widmung meiner VII. Sinfonie Allergnädigst entgegenzunehmen - Euerer königlichen Majestät meinen ehrfurtsvollsten, im tiefsten Herzen gefühlten Dank zu Füßen legen dürfe!
[...]
Gestatten mir Euere Majestät zum Schlusse noch die Allerunterthänigste Bitte Euere königliche Majestät wollen allergnädigst geruhen, auf dem Wege Allerhöchster Entschließung eine Aufführung von meiner Allergnädigst angenommenen Sinfonie, in deren Adagio die Trauermusik zum Andenken an des Meisters Hinscheiden ertönt,vor Euerer königlichen Majestät in königlicher Gnade gestatten zu wollen.
Gott segne! beschütze! und schirme Euere königliche Majestät! In tiefster Erfurcht verharrt
Euerer königlichen Majestät allerunterthänigster Diener
Anton Bruckner.

It's really hard to limit to just 3 Bruckner Symphonies, so I'll have to go with the 3rd 5th and 6th, and 8th.

The 9th

The 8th

The 3rd

I can't believe the 6th is beating the 7th. I only voted for that one because I was so sure that the poor underdog would need some help :D (It's a beauty though.)

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2008, 07:09:52 AM
Hey, Marvin. I wouldn't have bet that anyone would choose Die Nullte. Interesting. It is a good symphony. I think I'll listen to it now...it's been awhile since last I heard it.

Sarge

 Sarge the opening of the Nullte is very gripping! It is a very powerful symphony.  I believe it was Lilas who informed me that Bruckner composed the Nullte between Symphonies 1 and 2.  Even though it has the number 0 it is far from being a "preliminary" or "incomplete" work.  Happy Listening  :)!

 marvin  

All of them, with a slight preference to Nos. 3, 4, 5 and 8.

Quote from: Lethe on February 06, 2008, 12:29:19 AM
I can't believe the 6th is beating the 7th. I only voted for that one because I was so sure that the poor underdog would need some help :D (It's a beauty though.)

6 is wonderful  0:)

What do you think of 5? (I haven't been able to embrace it yet)

Quote from: Dm on February 06, 2008, 05:50:59 AM
What do you think of 5? (I haven't been able to embrace it yet)

Dm, # 5 is my favorite.  I'm actually surprised you haven't embraced it yet.  Only reason I'm saying that is I've noticed we have alot of similar tastes.

Which recordings have you listened to for the 5th?

Difficult choice...

#4,
#7,
#8, 

I love them all. But I chose

2nd (Giulini, but Chailly is very good too)
5th (Jochum (Staatskapelle Dresden) and Wand (NDR))
9th (Furtwängler, Giulini, Haitink)

Could anybody answer something I never could understand - which edition is Haitink using in his second Ninth with the Concertgebouw Orchestra (from the 1980s)? In the Coda of the first movement two sets of timpani reinforce the iambic rhythm in the lower brass, an effect I have never heard in another recording. It sounds colossal.

Quote from: ChamberNut on February 06, 2008, 05:59:56 AM
Which recordings have you listened to for the 5th?

Do you like all movements of 5?

I have Jochum/Dresden and Furtwängler.

Quote from: Dm on February 06, 2008, 06:06:38 AM
Do you like all movements of 5?

I have Jochum/Dresden and Furtwängler.

Yes, I do like all the movements in 5.  In particular, Mvts. I and II are some of my favorite of all Bruckner's symphonies.  I also have the Jochum/Dresden set.

Who knows?  Just keep listening, and it may some day grow on you.   :)   As is often the case.

Quote from: Dm on February 06, 2008, 06:06:38 AM
Do you like all movements of 5?

I have Jochum/Dresden and Furtwängler.

Dm, do by chance also have the Haitink as well?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HKYBRRRRL._AA240_.jpg)

Also which Jochum set EMI or DG?

This is extremely tough.  I suppose I'll have to go with:

#8 -- Giulini WP
#9 -- either Kubelik on Orfeo or Bruno Walter
#7 -- maybe Karajan WP, though I don't have a clear favorite

Currently I have Barenboim's and Chailly's sets on my iPod, and have been enjoying comparing and contrasting the two...

I voted for 7, 8 and 9.  ;D

Quote from: Steve on February 06, 2008, 06:59:39 AM
Dm, do by chance also have the Haitink as well?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HKYBRRRRL._AA240_.jpg)

Also which Jochum set EMI or DG?

I have that, but I haven't had the time to listen to it. Ironically, I spent more time listening to Haitink's 7th from 1978 on Philips, i guess it's because i took me a little longer to find.

 8 - HVK/VPO
5 - Wand/BPO
7 - HVK/VPO
4 - Wand/MPO

Quote from: Jezetha on February 06, 2008, 06:06:23 AM
Could anybody answer something I never could understand - which edition is Haitink using in his second Ninth with the Concertgebouw Orchestra (from the 1980s)? In the Coda of the first movement two sets of timpani reinforce the iambic rhythm in the lower brass, an effect I have never heard in another recording. It sounds colossal.

Haitink usually (always?) employs the Haas editions when performing Bruckner. Giulini uses Nowak in the Ninth and the difference in that coda is striking. Re-listening to Haitnk '81 just now makes me realize why it was my favorite Ninth for so many years. To borrow your adjective: a colossal performance.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 06, 2008, 09:04:46 AM
Haitink usually (always?) employs the Haas editions when performing Bruckner. Giulini uses Nowak in the Ninth and the difference in that coda is striking. Re-listening to that Haitnk 1981 version just now makes me realize why it was my favorite Ninth for so many years. To borrow your adjective: a colossal performance.

Sarge

According to Berky's discography on Bruckner 9ths. Haitink has always used "1894 Original Version. Ed. Leopold Nowak [1951}".

Quote from: Gustav on February 06, 2008, 09:11:04 AM
According to Berky's discography on Bruckner 9ths. Haitink has always used "1894 Original Version. Ed. Leopold Nowak [1951}".

What does he say about Giulini?

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 06, 2008, 09:13:00 AM
What does he say about about Giulini?

Sarge

check it out for yourself:
http://www.abruckner.com/recordings/default.htm?search=giulini

Quote from: Gustav on February 06, 2008, 09:15:31 AM
check it out for yourself:
http://www.abruckner.com/recordings/default.htm?search=giulini

Thanks for the link; interesting site. I've bookmarked it. When a Haas edition is available, Haitink does use it. But there is no Haas edition for the Third and Ninth? The discography claims Giulini, Barenboim and Haitink use the same edition (the three recordings I've just listened to for comparison). Did Haitink add the timpani parts himself, I wonder? I'm going to listen to other recordings now.

Edit: No timpani reinforcement of the rhythm in Abendroth, Klemperer or Jochum either.

Sarge

I am surprised nobody has voted for Symphony #1, which is one of my favorites: full of energy and surprises and potential for the future!

I understand why the later symphonies have an advantage: maybe we should split the poll into favorite "earlier" and favorite "later" symphonies.   0:)

I have written elsewhere about the Finale of Jochum's Fifth Symphony on DGG being at half speed, something not indicated in the score.  It spoils things for me: his EMI recording is a little faster.

On the double timpani in the Ninth: my score (Nowak) is not at hand right now, but I will check it later.  My impression is that this is a Stokowskiesque addendum.

Quote from: Cato on February 06, 2008, 10:15:19 AM
I am surprised nobody has voted for Symphony #1, which is one of my favorites: full of energy and surprises and potential for the future!

I understand why the later symphonies have an advantage: maybe we should split the poll into favorite "earlier" and favorite "later" symphonies.   0:)

I am surprised my self that i haven't been able to "get" this symphony, no worries, I'll listen to the Abbado/DG one, i'll get it eventually.

Quote from: Cato on February 06, 2008, 10:15:19 AM
I am surprised nobody has voted for Symphony #1, which is one of my favorites: full of energy and surprises and potential for the future!

On the double timpani in the Ninth: my score (Nowak) is not at hand right now, but I will check it later.  My impression is that this is a Stokowskiesque addendum.

It's only because I had to select only 3 that I couldn't get in the marvellous First, a firm favourite of mine ever since I bought an LP with Vaclav Neumann conducting it. I love all the poetic solos in this symphony (flute, horn).

Regarding the "Stokowskiesque addendum" - Haitink is not exactly known for tampering with scores just for effect...

I'd have put Symphony No. 1 as my # 4 pick, honestly.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2008, 06:09:53 AM
It took a while for me to appreciate it too. In fact, it was the first Bruckner symphony I ever heard and it put me off the composer for five years ;D But it, and Bruckner, eventually won me over.

What version of the 3rd?  They can be radically different.  The original version can seem to go on and on and on, so I do prefer the tighter final version.

Quote from: Daverz on February 06, 2008, 12:23:36 PM
What version of the 3rd?  They can be radically different.  The original version can seem to go on and on and on, so I do prefer the tighter final version.

I can't recall now who conducted (it was a library copy) but it was probably the revised 1889 version. Almost everyone at that time (60s) played it (the sole recorded exception was Haitink, I believe, and I'm certain I didn't hear Haitink). You know, as a confirmed Wagnerite already, if it had been the original, with the Wagner quotes, I might have actually responded to it differently despite the added length.

Sarge

Quote from: Jezetha on February 06, 2008, 11:09:23 AM

Regarding the "Stokowskiesque addendum" - Haitink is not exactly known for tampering with scores just for effect...

Agreed, but the Nowak score for the Ninth shows only a 32nd-note roll for the timpani, not any reinforcing for the brass motif.

I went for 5. 6 and 9. But that's silly of course.  They are favourites, not best. Well, that's an open question... ::). I chose mine according to what I think are Bruckner's most personal utterances among his fully accomplished works.

Some of his works (or parts of them) have a slightly scholarly or 'official' feeling. Bruckner was always keen too impress and be acknowledged. That craving for recognition by his peers and critics may have led him to compose in a slightly 'learned' manner. Despite the finale of the 5th being the most 'learned' of all 44 symphony movements he completed, it's the one in which he won and conquered. No achievement was beyond him after that. But he may not have realized it.

I often think of the 9th as Jacob wrestling with the Angel.
(http://www.scottsullivanart.com/assets/Jacob%20Wrestles%20with%20An%20Angel_big.jpg)

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on February 06, 2008, 06:09:56 PM
IDespite the finale of the 5th being the most 'learned' of all 44 symphony movements he completed, it's the one in which he won and conquered. No achievement was beyond him after that. But he may not have realized it.

I agree with that. After that his music may sound different but they definitely didn't trump the finale of the 5th in quality. That is truly a stupendous movement in organic unity and mindblowing sustaining of tension.

I have a slight preference to Giulini 9 Chicago over Jochum Dresden... i should give them a thorougher look
i know only n 3,4, 8, 9 so i cannot reply to the poll so far, am curious about 5 (now that i have the complete set of jochum!)

Quote from: Dm on February 06, 2008, 05:50:59 AM
6 is wonderful  0:)

What do you think of 5? (I haven't been able to embrace it yet)

Seems 5 is most peoples favourite, but I find it a little austere - I prefer all the later symphonies to it.

Some years ago I had the opportunity to hear the Cleveland Orchestra in concert with Vladimir Ashkenazy conducting the Bruckner 5th, and the Finale brought people to their feet!  The tempo was brisk and the brass was triumphant without being bombastic.

 

  I see the Nullte Symphony 0 has recieved another vote- somebody else here shares my love for that symphony wonderfull!

  marvin 

I would pick 3, 4 and 6.  3 because it was the first I heard and a live performance.  It left kind of a mark on my ear.  4 and 6, also early experiences, but through the excellent recordings of Klemp and the Phil. Orchestra. Actually, I kind of enjoy all of Bruckner's symphones, although to me, his third really was the first.

I remember I created this thread a long time ago, back when I was ChamberNut for the first time.   ;D

My choices are different this time.  They are # 7, # 8 and # 9

3, 6, 9 the first time around - the 8th comes close, but I think I'll still keep it at this :)

(I still have yet to "get" the 5th, too. Strange how things sometimes don't change.)

I looked at the title, and thought 'ha, easy!'

Then I realised it wasn't that easy.


It has to be 7, 8, 9, purely on meritocratic grounds. Though I do love the 4th in a purely sentimental manner.

(Not to say it's not great music, or that I don't love the remaining symphonies, as well. As I said: harder than I thought!)

has to be no.4, 5, 9 for me at this point! Need to get to know the "0's" and 8th a little more, only heard them once I think...

Daniel

I'm boring and sticking with 7, 8, & 9, same as last time.  Although 6 has been growing on me...

[asin]B0000C083Q[/asin]

My favorites are 5, 6, and 9. I never really cared much about the 7th or the 8th, though the 8th is much better than the 7th in my opinion. His first couple of symphonies 0-4 were pretty good. The 4th being the most mature out of these. But I like Bruckner when he's getting out of his comfort zone, which I think he's done in 5, 6, and 9. The 9th is my absolute favorite. Each movement is a masterpiece. The last movement is especially powerful and moving for me.

Mine are 5, 7 and 9 - just like Beethoven.

To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success, or do you enjoy the work despite that? I find that the front-heavy aspect of the 7th makes the work less satisfactory than the surrounding ones.

Polls: you can't live with them, you can't live without them. :P

As a rookie, I began with Bruckner 1 & 4 once and they remained my faves for some time. Growing older, I grew more attached to others, especially the last two.

In the end, I voted for 4, 8 and 9, and now my heart breaks to see that no. 1 did not get a single vote yet. :'(

I voted for 4, 7, and 9. :)

4, 5, 7.  Ask another time and you might get 6 or 9.  But I'd still take all of Sibelius and most of Beethoven, Mahler, and Prokofiev first.

Quote from: DavidRoss on September 13, 2011, 01:08:34 PMBut I'd still take all of Sibelius and most of Beethoven, Mahler, and Prokofiev first.

That's completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 13, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success, or do you enjoy the work despite that? I find that the front-heavy aspect of the 7th makes the work less satisfactory than the surrounding ones.

Sara, I don't consider the finale of any of his symphonies to be a total success, nor any other of his movements. But I enjoy most of the symphonies most of the time in spite of their tediousness.

Quote from: DavidRoss on September 13, 2011, 03:07:22 PMBut I enjoy most of the symphonies most of the time in spite of their tediousness.

The same can be said of Mahler. Way over-the-top emotional for me, which can grow tiresome.

Edit: I should have wrote I like the music of Mahler in spite of this emotional excessiveness. :D

7,8,9 are for me in completly other league than all earlier.

If I were to split 'em into tiers I would go:

Tier 1: 4, 5, 7, 8, 9
Tier 2: 3, 6
Tier 3: 00, 0, 1, 2

I voted for No.3, No.5 and No.8; but the Fourth "Romantic", the Seventh and the Ninth come very close, Bruckner's symphonies are very beautiful!!  :D

I especially love Karajan's recordings of Bruckner Symphonies, so gorgeous!!

Ilaria

Quote from: DavidW on September 14, 2011, 03:56:47 AM
If I were to split 'em into tiers I would go:

Tier 1: 4, 5, 7, 8, 9
Tier 2: 3, 6
Tier 3: 00, 0, 1, 2

Mine would be a little different:

Tier 1:  0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Tier 2:  1
Tier 3:  00

Sarge

Quote from: DavidRoss on September 13, 2011, 03:07:22 PM
Sara, I don't consider the finale of any of his symphonies to be a total success, nor any other of his movements.

Oh, David...such a kidder. You crack me up.

Sarge

I also don't think Bruckner's movements are anything less than a total success, in the late symphonies.

Unless by 'total success' one were to mean some kind of cosmic, axiomatic, mathematical level of perfection.


Re: the 7th, I actually find the finale just right, but not primarily because of its formal accomplishment.

There's obviously that whole reinvention of the small theme into the big theme, plus all the usual Bruckner architectonics; but what I love most about the 7th, which may actually be my favourite Bruckner symphony, is the tenderness that pervades its thematic material, of which the finale is such an 'obvious' kind of Wagner-awkward apotheosis that it serves to reinforce the very vulnerability which Bruckner is desperately trying to transform into all-conquering strength.

In that sense, I guess I can see what you mean by it not being a total success for Bruckner, but it is a total success for me!


Edit: Important correction.

While I could maybe fuss about some of the works (but not all that much), the 9th in particular I can't think of a single out of place note. In the case of the 8th, I'd have preferred the first movement to be twice as long.

One thing that intrigues me about late Bruckner is not which movements he chooses to make long, but which he keeps short - the first movement of the 8th, the finale of the 7th. I can't help but imagine the possible extremes of this - an 8th with a first movement as long as the 9th, or the 7th with a shorter adagio and a 13 minute opening movement like the following symphony. Chamber Bruckner? :P It is interesting how he never really extends his movements for the sake of it, there is always something holding back, or keeping a given symphony in check - any largesse is for expressive purposes where needed.

Interesting observations, Sara. Especially about No. 8. That first movement is rather short, yes, and - an absolute favourite of mine. The shortness makes the piece the more brutal and tragic. The Adagio, on the other hand, is almost too extended in its mystic-erotic yearning. And the Finale, too, seems to want to exorcise the trauma of the first movement through sheer length.

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 13, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success, or do you enjoy the work despite that? I find that the front-heavy aspect of the 7th makes the work less satisfactory than the surrounding ones.

I view it as his "Classical" symphony, balanced like Haydn and Mozart and the Eroica, with the weight firmly in the first two movements followed by a lighter and shorter scherzo and finale. I've heard it live more than any other Bruckner symphony and the proportions seem perfect in that setting. I think it works especially well when the conductor maintains the tempo going into the coda rather than, as most do, slowing down in an attempt to add a profundity and weight the notes don't really have.

Sarge

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on September 14, 2011, 07:36:25 AM
Interesting observations, Sara. Especially about No. 8. That first movement is rather short, yes, and - an absolute favourite of mine. The shortness makes the piece the more brutal and tragic. The Adagio, on the other hand, is almost too extended in its mystic-erotic yearning. And the Finale, too, seems to want to exorcise the trauma of the first movement through sheer length.

It is the finale of the 8th which only just keeps it out of my top 3 - the jubilant bell ringing goes on for just a little too long without quite the weight from earlier on to justify it. Compared to something like the 6th, where everything is in such tight balance (even more than the 4th), it's hard not to consider the piece flawed - and yet I can't think of a single thing I would change other than reactionary "make the first movement scale the heights of the 9th" spluttering, when in reality the 9th is Bruckner's most individual work since the 3rd and it wouldn't be possible to ret-con the inspiration of that final utterance backward...

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 14, 2011, 07:37:36 AM
I view it as his "Classical" symphony, balanced like Haydn and Mozart, with the weight firmly in the first two movements followed by a lighter and shorter scherzo and finale. I've heard it live more than any other Bruckner symphony and the proportions seem perfect in that setting. I think it works especially well when the conductor maintains the tempo going into the coda rather than, as most do, slowing down in an attempt to add a profundity and weight the notes don't really have.

This description reminds me a little of one of Shostakovich's classical wheezes - the 6th symphony. I agree, I do suppose that the 7th is as much in its own world as the 8th, but in reversed form, becoming more 'delightful' as it progresses, opposed to more weighty.

Interesting to see the almost pyramid shape...

I voted for 2, 7 and 9, with 2 being the current favorite.

And I am, of course, anything but a Brucknerite.

I just got the 8th with Gielen. Truth be told, I bought the CD for the Feldman Coptic Light. But I am looking forward to listening to the Gielen 8 tomorrow in my headphone. Attentively!

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 14, 2011, 07:47:12 AM
I do suppose that the 7th is as much in its own world as the 8th, but in reversed form, becoming more 'delightful' as it progresses, opposed to more weighty.

Brilliant! Yes, that is my experience, too. The music gets lighter and lighter in the head after the first two heavy movements.

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 13, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success,

Of course I do.  This is the first time I've heard that there could even be anything problematic about the 7th, it is a great masterpiece, including the final movement.  As with any Bruckner symphony each movement is a part of the whole.  Together there is unity.  Just discussing the quality of the individual movements doesn't make sense to me.

Quote from: DavidW on September 14, 2011, 09:04:45 AM
This is the first time I've heard that there could even be anything problematic about the 7th

There isn't as far as most people are concerned - it's why the question interests me. Admittedly it's a bit narcissistic, but I don't claim that others should share my opinion - maybe that they could convince me otherwise n__n

My problem with "self-evident" Bruckner facts derives from having yet to encounter a solid reason for the 6th to be so less popular (from a listener, rather than performance POV) than 4-9, and almost equal with 3, despite me finding it a triumph of melody and structure. Unfortunately I do have to resort to singling out specific movements to do this - otherwise I don't know how comparisons could be made.

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on September 14, 2011, 07:51:50 AM

Brilliant! Yes, that is my experience, too. The music gets lighter and lighter in the head after the first two heavy movements.

I disagree! :)

And I've corrected a typo in my (written) thoughts on this, above, so now they make at least 50% More Sense (TM).

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 14, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
My problem with "self-evident" Bruckner facts derives from having yet to encounter a solid reason for the 6th to be so less popular (from a listener, rather than performance POV) than 4-9, and almost equal with 3, despite me finding it a triumph of melody and structure. Unfortunately I do have to resort to singling out specific movements to do this - otherwise I don't know how comparisons could be made.

I think that the 6th is just a little more subtle and that's why it's not quite as popular as the others.  But from the poll #s I would say it is pretty popular... you should ask Ray what he thinks because I seem to recall he strongly dislikes that symphony.

Quote from: Renfield on September 14, 2011, 09:27:13 AM
I disagree!

And I've corrected a typo in my (written) thoughts on this, above, so now they make at least 50% More Sense (TM).

I agree with the tenderness that infuses the work. It is a very rounded and beautiful creation. With 'lighter in the head' I mean to say that I always hear something very playful and elated in the Finale. But it is a giant having fun.

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on September 14, 2011, 10:11:34 AM


I agree with the tenderness that infuses the work. It is a very rounded and beautiful creation. With 'lighter in the head' I mean to say that I always hear something very playful and elated in the Finale. But it is a giant having fun.

Much like in that discussion re: the Mahler 4th from a while ago, I find any playfulness of the 7th's finale, in particular, to be tragic, rather than earnestly fun. Then again, this may be me imposing my Mahlerian norms on other composers needlessly!

Quote from: Renfield on September 14, 2011, 10:28:32 AM
Much like in that discussion re: the Mahler 4th from a while ago, I find any playfulness of the 7th's finale, in particular, to be tragic, rather than earnestly fun. Then again, this may be me imposing my Mahlerian norms on other composers needlessly!

Perhaps. When Bruckner really turns dark and tragic, in the Eighth (1st movement) and Ninth (outer movements), I hear the doubts of a believer tearing the music's fabric apart. Bruckner seems afraid of losing his God, whereas Mahler never had Him in the first place, and is looking for Him. The angst that both make audible (to me) is thus fundamentally different in origin.

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 14, 2011, 07:23:51 AM
I can't help but imagine the possible extremes of this - the 7th with a shorter adagio

This is the mother of all blasphemies.

Quote from: mszczuj on September 14, 2011, 01:04:51 PM
This is the mother of all blasphemies.

Yip ;D At the moment I like that adagio almost more than the rest of the work combined :)

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on September 14, 2011, 01:10:36 PM
Yip ;D At the moment I like that adagio almost more than the rest of the work combined :)

So do I. But this moment last for me more than thirty years. Yes, I really like some other orchestral pieces - first movement of Eroica, first of 5th Concerto, first and especially second of 9th, first and last of Mahler 9th, adagios of Bruckners 8th and 9th - but this Adagio is for me something really special - so simple in construction and so rich in its spiritual way through stages of consiousness.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 13, 2011, 11:24:21 AM
I never really cared much about the 7th or the 8th, though the 8th is much better than the 7th in my opinion.

I feel something similar. Compared to the earlier symphonies, 7 and 8 seem over-inflated for their material. No such problems with 9, of course.