Looking to explore these acclaimed works. Any suggestions?
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 07:24:37 AM
Looking to explore these acclaimed works. Any suggestions?
On the label Philips and Brilliant you find all you want to have Steve!
Both budget, I might add.
There are 3 good choices. Depends if you prefer modern instruments or period.
First, Beaux Arts Trio. The ultimate modern instrument version. Can't go wrong.
Trio 1790 on cpo is up to volume 7 of their complete cycle. I have all 7 and am very pleased with them. On the chronologically earliest ones (vol. 7, #34-39, IIRC) they use a harpsichord, but the first 6 are on fortepiano, and very nice.
Finally, the Van Sweiten Trio on Brilliant, complete set. I have read nothing but good about these (here and elsewhere) but I haven't heard them personally. This might be your best choice for value, too. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Debussy Piano - Cédric Tiberghien - Debussy Images for Piano book 1 pt 3
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 09, 2008, 07:37:19 AM
There are 3 good choices. Depends if you prefer modern instruments or period.
First, Beaux Arts Trio. The ultimate modern instrument version. Can't go wrong.
Trio 1790 on cpo is up to volume 7 of their complete cycle. I have all 7 and am very pleased with them. On the chronologically earliest ones (vol. 7, #34-39, IIRC) they use a harpsichord, but the first 6 are on fortepiano, and very nice.
Finally, the Van Sweiten Trio on Brilliant, complete set. I have read nothing but good about these (here and elsewhere) but I haven't heard them personally. This might be your best choice for value, too. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Debussy Piano - Cédric Tiberghien - Debussy Images for Piano book 1 pt 3
Agreed on all counts. I forgot the CPO, which I bought extremely cheap last year.
So Philips/Brilliant/CPO. ;D
Quote from: Harry on February 09, 2008, 07:44:50 AM
Agreed on all counts. I forgot the CPO, which I bought extremely cheap last year.
So Philips/Brilliant/CPO. ;D
This HIP set is just fabulous!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/92794.jpg)
Beau Arts is a standard recommendation, but I found them too heavy in Haydn, not the required sparkle and rhythmic verve. Trio 1790 is the way to go, superb on all counts.
Quote from: head-case on February 09, 2008, 07:52:41 AM
Beau Arts is a standard recommendation, but I found them too heavy in Haydn, not the required sparkle and rhythmic verve. Trio 1790 is the way to go, superb on all counts.
Yes, I would agree with that. I wish I could compare van Sweiten with Trio 1790, but alas, not yet. Trio 1790 is superb though... :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Haydn Baryton Trios - Hsu Miller Arico - FJH Trio #087 in a for Baryton, Viola & Cello H 11:087 1st mvmt
Quote from: head-case on February 09, 2008, 07:52:41 AM
Beau Arts is a standard recommendation, but I found them too heavy in Haydn, not the required sparkle and rhythmic verve. Trio 1790 is the way to go, superb on all counts.
I would agree that they are not light. However, I would say they have a shadowy darkness about them rather than a heavy handness. Just my take. Having said this though, I absolutely love this Beau Arts set Steve.
Quote from: Bogey on February 09, 2008, 07:57:57 AM
I would agree that they are not light. However, I would say they have a shadowy darkness about them rather than a heavy handness. Just my take. Having said this though, I absolutely love this Beau Arts set Steve.
Well, there is certainly nothing heavy-handed about their playing. It is the sound of modern instruments that adds weight to these works, which weren't built to carry that much. Obviously why I prefer the HIP sets... ;)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Haydn Baryton Trios - Hsu Miller Arico - FJH Trio #087 in a for Baryton, Viola & Cello H 11:087 2nd mvmt
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 09, 2008, 08:09:45 AM
Well, there is certainly nothing heavy-handed about their playing. It is the sound of modern instruments that adds weight to these works, which weren't built to carry that much. Obviously why I prefer the HIP sets... ;)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Haydn Baryton Trios - Hsu Miller Arico - FJH Trio #087 in a for Baryton, Viola & Cello H 11:087 2nd mvmt
Does not really matter when you got
Haydn Baryton Trios - Hsu Miller Arico - FJH Trio #087 in a for Baryton, Viola & Cello H 11:087 2nd mvmt
playing my friend! :D
Quote from: Bogey on February 09, 2008, 08:11:38 AM
Does not really matter when you got
Haydn Baryton Trios - Hsu Miller Arico - FJH Trio #087 in a for Baryton, Viola & Cello H 11:087 2nd mvmt
playing my friend! :D
:D
True enough, who can argue with that? ;)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
K 196c/292 Sonata for Cello & Bassoon - Hübner / Latzko - K 196c/292 Sonata in Bb for Bassoon & Cello 1st mvmt - Allegro
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 09, 2008, 07:37:19 AM
There are 3 good choices. Depends if you prefer modern instruments or period.
First, Beaux Arts Trio. The ultimate modern instrument version. Can't go wrong.
Trio 1790 on cpo is up to volume 7 of their complete cycle. I have all 7 and am very pleased with them. On the chronologically earliest ones (vol. 7, #34-39, IIRC) they use a harpsichord, but the first 6 are on fortepiano, and very nice.
Finally, the Van Sweiten Trio on Brilliant, complete set. I have read nothing but good about these (here and elsewhere) but I haven't heard them personally. This might be your best choice for value, too. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Debussy Piano - Cédric Tiberghien - Debussy Images for Piano book 1 pt 3
Gurn said it!
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 07:24:37 AM
Looking to explore these acclaimed works. Any suggestions?
As with most Haydn these works lack much individuality, but as a whole inhabit a particularly refined and cool minded world.
Quote from: Harry on February 09, 2008, 07:36:21 AM
On the label Philips and Brilliant you find all you want to have Steve!
Both budget, I might add.
There's only a single recording on both labels?
Quote from: Sean on February 09, 2008, 10:23:22 AM
As with most Haydn these works lack much individuality, but as a whole inhabit a particularly refined and cool minded world.
True...the reason may be that Haydn was more accustomed to the pattern of conceiving and writing his works in groups (of 3 or 6) than either Mozart or Beethoven.
Any thoughts on the Vienna Trio? I generally prefer my Haydn, "hip", so I'm going to be looking into the Swieten.
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 10:44:20 AM
There's only a single recording on both labels?
Brilliant has one complete recording, and Philips also, so far as I know. together with the CPO recordings, it is the best on the Market Steve.
The Van Swieten, and the CPO recordings are both HIP, and very good.
Hey Steve,
A while back DavidW sent me a single disc from the Beaux Arts Trio. Since then I have purchased the entire set. I am sure he would not mind me passing it on, so you are welcome to the cd if want to give this ensemble a try. Just drop me a PM.
Quote from: Harry on February 09, 2008, 11:00:46 AM
Brilliant has one complete recording, and Philips also, so far as I know. together with the CPO recordings, it is the best on the Market Steve.
The Van Swieten, and the CPO recordings are both HIP, and very good.
Steve - I'd have to go along w/ Harry and some of the others; if you want a HIP version, the 10-CD Brilliant Box is hard to beat! (mid-$30 range on the Amazon marketplace, and excellent reviews there, also) - it's the one I have currently; also have a Beaux Arts disc and prefer the early instrument approach for these works (but HEY, I have a lot of Beaux Arts CDs and love the group - would not hesitate to duplicate these works if the price was right); I've not heard the CPO offerings, but I do have the Trio 1790 on other CPO recordings and enjoy them tremendously - my bottom line is that I'd likely be 'happy' w/ any of these performances - :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VMS5SAR7L._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on February 09, 2008, 11:26:58 AM
Steve - I'd have to go along w/ Harry and some of the others; if you want a HIP version, the 10-CD Brilliant Box is hard to beat! (mid-$30 range on the Amazon marketplace, and excellent reviews there, also) - it's the one I have currently; also have a Beaux Arts disc and prefer the early instrument approach for these works (but HEY, I have a lot of Beaux Arts CDs and love the group - would not hesitate to duplicate these works if the price was right); I've not heard the CPO offerings, but I do have the Trio 1790 on other CPO recordings and enjoy them tremendously - my bottom line is that I'd likely be 'happy' w/ any of these performances - :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VMS5SAR7L._AA240_.jpg)
Thanks,
Dave$33.29! What a bargain. Although, I'd still be interested in a 'modern' rendition, I'll be adding this one to the cart very soon.
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 11:50:50 AM
Thanks, Dave
$33.29! What a bargain. Although, I'd still be interested in a 'modern' rendition, I'll be adding this one to the cart very soon.
Another vote for the Van Swieten Trio! :)
Really great performances, beautifully recorded and a complete set for a very nice price.
I'd leave the "modern" renditions (BAT) for what they are - as can be expected of non-HIP Haydn: rather out-of-character IMO. 8)
Q
BAT.
Quote from: Que on February 09, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Another vote for the Van Swieten Trio! :)
Really great performances, beautifully recorded and a complete set for a very nice price.
I'd leave the "modern" renditions (BAT) for what they are - as can be expected of non-HIP Haydn: rather out-of-character IMO. 8)
Q
I've never been one for non-Hip Haydn, but this Beaux Arts Trio seems to have some of the members hear in a fit of praise.. Might be worth checking out, aye?
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 06:11:54 PM
I've never been one for non-Hip Haydn, but this Beaux Arts Trio seems to have some of the members hear in a fit of praise.. Might be worth checking out, aye?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the BAT trios, Steve. They are beautifully played. As I said earlier, it is only the lightness of the music that suits a fortepiano better than it does a modern concert grand. There are single disks of the BAT set, I bought the one that has #25 on it, the one with the Rondo alla Hongroise on it to try it out. Then I got the box. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
BWV 1046 Brandenburg Concerto #1 - Il Giardino Armonico, Milano/Antonini - BWV 1046 Concerto in F 3rd mvmt - Allegro
Sorry to come dragging with this old thread, but since it's anniversary year for Haydns death, a new set has been released. Or at least I think it's new as I haven't seen it in real life yet.
It's the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt set on Phoenix, if I'm not mistaken it was recorded in the acoustically beautiful hall at Schloss Esterhazy, where I've been attending concerts myself.
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/161PHOENIX.jpg)
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//161PHOENIX.htm
It's on sale at MDT at the moment, and I've ordered one for myself. My favourite has always been the Beaux Arts set on Philips, I've got the three original volumes of boxes on LP's, and they are absolutely wonderful, some of my favourite albums of all times.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has heard the new Haydn Trio Eisenstadt-set yet?
Regards. Vidar
I'm trying to listen to these trios systematically -- working my way through the Beaux Arts Box. And I've just hit the first one that has bowled me over -- Hob. XV:15 in G (Trio 29)
The music seems really exciting. Full of little motifs which seem to me to be onomatopoeias for laughter (If you have Fazil Say's Haydn CD, he writes an interesting essay in the booklet about onomatopoeia in Haydn's piano sonatas). And there is a real role for the cello -- so there are sections with a dialogue in the style of Mozart.
The Beaux Arts seems pretty good -- Pressler especially. But this trio (and maybe the ones which follow -- I don't know yet) is so good I want the best.
Anyway, I thought I'd post this just in case there's anyone else out there who's into this music at the moment.
Quote from: masolino on February 09, 2008, 10:46:33 AM
. . . Haydn was more accustomed to the pattern of conceiving and writing his works in groups (of 3 or 6) than either Mozart or Beethoven.
That's an interesting comment (made a very long time ago!) Were these trios published as sets?
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2009, 11:42:34 AM
I'm trying to listen to these trios systematically -- working my way through the Beaux Arts Box. And I've just hit the first one that has bowled me over -- Hob. XV:15 in G (Trio 29)
The music seems really exciting. Full of little motifs which seem to me to be onomatopoeias for laughter (If you have Fazil Say's Haydn CD, he writes an interesting essay in the booklet about onomatopoeia in Haydn's piano sonatas). And there is a real role for the cello -- so there are sections with a dialogue in the style of Mozart.
The Beaux Arts seems pretty good -- Pressler especially. But this trio (and maybe the ones which follow -- I don't know yet) is so good I want the best.
Anyway, I thought I'd post this just in case there's anyone else out there who's into this music at the moment.
That's an interesting comment (made a very long time ago!) Were these trios published as sets?
Hob 15:15, 16 & 17 were a set of three. They were alternatively scored for flute instead of violin. I find the set to be one of his best, full of little things like you pointed out. The last movement of #28 (Hob 15:16) is one of my favorite last movements in the trios. They are from 1790, so late rather than early. Don't get caught out by the Hob numbers; 33-38 are very early! Nice works, but not on par with Hob 25-32, for example. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Goodman, The Hanover Band - Hob 01 070 Symphony in D 1st mvmt - Vivace con brio
Well, I've not been thinking about this thread in a while and suddenly it is re-activated! :D
I still just own the Brilliant Box (and am quite pleased), but another one would not be 'out of the question'? ;) ;D
So, I was just visiting Amazon and the Trio 1790 are up to their 8th volume (which has 2 discs) - is this complete?
Now although I love this group, period instruments, & the CPO label, not sure that I want another 'period' box vs. one w/ modern instruments; back in February, one of our new posters brought up a 'complete' set, also shown below but received no responses?
The group is the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt - an 8-CD set on Capriccio for $27 on the Amazon Marketplace; there is a superlative review on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2006/Jan06/Haydn_trios_49489.htm) of the first 4-CD release of this group's initial release - would love to hear any opinions on this group's performances in this repertoire and of course any comparisons to the BAT recordings - could this be a 'modern' set equal if not better that the venerable Beaux Arts Trio? 8)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a7ZyxX%2BWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FbwORtaHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on August 29, 2009, 01:18:41 PM
Well, I've not been thinking about this thread in a while and suddenly it is re-activated! :D
I still just own the Brilliant Box (and am quite pleased), but another one would not be 'out of the question'? ;) ;D
So, I was just visiting Amazon and the Trio 1790 are up to their 8th volume (which has 2 discs) - is this complete?
Now although I love this group, period instruments, & the CPO label, not sure that I want another 'period' box vs. one w/ modern instruments; back in February, one of our new posters brought up a 'complete' set, also shown below but received no responses?
The group is the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt - an 8-CD set on Capriccio for $27 on the Amazon Marketplace; there is a superlative review on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2006/Jan06/Haydn_trios_49489.htm) of the first 4-CD release of this group's initial release - would love to hear any opinions on this group's performances in this repertoire and of course any comparisons to the BAT recordings - could this be a 'modern' set equal if not better that the venerable Beaux Arts Trio? 8)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a7ZyxX%2BWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FbwORtaHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Dave,
Yes, that'll be the last of that set. I have the first 7, looks like I'll need to round up the 8th, thanks for pointing that out. :)
Haydn Trio Eisenstadt figured into the Brilliant Big Box somewhere too. Not in the trios though, since those are the Van Sweiten box. Some of the songs are accompanied by a piano trio, perhaps that's where they are. ?? Now having the 1790, BAT and soon the Van Sweiten, I may not be able to justify the HTE set. Yet... :D
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Goodman, The Hanover Band - Hob 01 072 Symphony in D 2nd mvmt - Andante
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 29, 2009, 02:18:24 PM
Haydn Trio Eisenstadt figured into the Brilliant Big Box somewhere too. Not in the trios though, since those are the Van Sweiten box. Some of the songs are accompanied by a piano trio, perhaps that's where they are. ?? Now having the 1790, BAT and soon the Van Sweiten, I may not be able to justify the HTE set. Yet... :D
Gurn - already having the
Van Sweiten box, I don't feel a repeat w/
Trio 1790 is needed (although I love this group!) - the
HTE have just been such well received & on recent recordings w/ 'modern' instruments, I might just go w/ that group, making one of each - might be just fine w/ me - will report back if I indeed make a purchase! Dave :D
Hoping none of you mind my reason for listening to Haydn, but, as I sit here listening to some of the trios, it just puts me into a state of total peace and relaxation and melts the day's cares away. Haydn just oozes grace and charm.
Quote from: Tomo on August 31, 2009, 04:33:30 PM
Hoping none of you mind my reason for listening to Haydn, but, as I sit here listening to some of the trios, it just puts me into a state of total peace and relaxation and melts the day's cares away. Haydn just oozes grace and charm.
Hello
Tomo - these are indeed wonderful works that can be listened to for hours on end! I agree! :D
BTW - I just put in an order for the set below, which should be a good complement to my more HIP set - plan to enjoy also - Dave :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FbwORtaHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Tomo on August 31, 2009, 04:33:30 PM
Hoping none of you mind my reason for listening to Haydn, but, as I sit here listening to some of the trios, it just puts me into a state of total peace and relaxation and melts the day's cares away. Haydn just oozes grace and charm.
It would be very difficult to have a different reaction towards such a beautiful group of works. Great music indeed.
Quote from: SonicMan on August 31, 2009, 04:57:38 PM
BTW - I just put in an order for the set below, which should be a good complement to my more HIP set - plan to enjoy also - Dave :)
Aha! ;)
Quote from: Gabriel on August 31, 2009, 05:05:22 PM
It would be very difficult to have a different reaction towards such a beautiful group of works. Great music indeed.
Aha! ;)
Maybe. But thruth is I am having a real problem seeing what the fuss is about with these trios.
Right now I'm only up to CD 6 in the Beaux Arts box -- and yes, I can see the music is beautiful, graceful charming.
But great -- Rosen's comparison was with the Mozart Piano Concertos -- I guess he meant Pico 14 to Pico 24.
Well quite frankly, with one exception the music calls to mind the Mozart violin sonatas rather than piano concertos . I mean for inventiveness and for being full of ideas they are interesting -- quite -- but not as much as the Piano Concertos.
The exception is Hob. XV:15 in G (Trio 29), which I love.
Maybe the great music will be revealed in CDs 7 through to 9. But so far, I am disappointed. Nice music. Peaceful, and graceful and charming. But not great.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2009, 11:33:39 PM
......
Maybe the great music will be revealed in CDs 7 through to 9. But so far, I am disappointed. Nice music. Peaceful, and graceful and charming. But not great.
Well, you know - there is absolutely nothing wrong w/ the bolded above statement - often I'm in need of just that kind of music, and Haydn's genius in part maybe his skill in composing such music (and possibly the reason he did write the trios, i.e. not to be 'banged out' in a concert hall, but to please in the salon, dining room, etc.) - but hey just my opinion - :D
Quote from: SonicMan on September 01, 2009, 04:37:04 AM
Well, you know - there is absolutely nothing wrong w/ the bolded above statement - often I'm in need of just that kind of music, and Haydn's genius in part maybe his skill in composing such music (and possibly the reason he did write the trios, i.e. not to be 'banged out' in a concert hall, but to please in the salon, dining room, etc.) - but hey just my opinion - :D
An opinion, may be, but the fact nonetheless. This genre of music had never to that time been played in a concert hall, nor was it ever intended to be. It is strictly 'private music'. Not even recitals (as we would know them). Best thing is to accept it for what it is and not feel badly that it doesn't rise to expectations that it was never intended to meet. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 01, 2009, 04:53:16 AM
An opinion, may be, but the fact nonetheless. This genre of music had never to that time been played in a concert hall, nor was it ever intended to be. It is strictly 'private music'. Not even recitals (as we would know them). Best thing is to accept it for what it is and not feel badly that it doesn't rise to expectations that it was never intended to meet. :)
8)
This is all very interesting.
I'm not sure I expressed myself clearly. I didn't mean to focus on the public performance function of piano concertos -- it was just Rosen's comparison which made me refer to them.
There's lots of really profound and interesting private music. Hell, I like solo keyboard music more than most other types.
But what I'm saying is that except for the one trio, they don't seem to me to be as interesting musically speaking as some of Haydn's own later quartets, or Mozart's or Bach's solo violin and cello music . . . But maybe the best is awaiting my discovary
Discs 7 to 9 of the BAT are the ones I usually listen to, when I'm listening to Haydn's Piano Trios. I hear plenty profundity.
I'm a little puzzled by Rosen's comparison to Mozart's Piano Concertos. As Sarah Palin said, in what respect?
I think the more natural comparison would indeed be piano-violin sonatas. Very good ones.
Quote from: Herman on September 01, 2009, 08:32:14 AM
Discs 7 to 9 of the BAT are the ones I usually listen to, when I'm listening to Haydn's Piano Trios. I hear plenty profundity.
I'm a little puzzled by Rosen's comparison to Mozart's Piano Concertos. As Sarah Palin said, in what respect?
I think the more natural comparison would indeed be piano-violin sonatas. Very good ones.
Thanks -- I'm gonna get round to Disc 7 tonight.
I don't have Rosen's book -- the one on Classicism. And I have tried to see the text on-line but failed. But apparently there's a whole chapter on the trios and the claim .. well I dunno exactly. I guess that they are very very great, like Concertos 14 - 24 (but unlike the violin sonatas -- which are less than that)
Sorry -- stupid! But it would be nice if someone could precis the point more accurately.
What do you think of the earlier ones?
Quote from: Gurn Blanston link=topic=59
43.msg350271#msg350271 date=1251576474
Hob 15:15, 16 & 17 were a set of three. They were alternatively scored for flute instead of violin. I find the set to be one of his best, full of little things like you pointed out. The last movement of #28 (Hob 15:16) is one of my favorite last movements in the trios.
Hob.XV:16 D major is also one of my favorites. But I hope it is not too sinful to suggest a nonHIP version in this thread ;D
(http://www.doremi.com/img/trios)
Carlos
Quote from: ccar on November 09, 2009, 03:47:04 PM
Hob.XV:16 D major is also one of my favorites. But I hope it is not too sinful to suggest a nonHIP version in this thread ;D
(http://www.doremi.com/img/trios)
Carlos
No, not at all. We (the best of us, anyway) are non-judgmental about that sort of thing. It is only important that you hear and enjoy the music. After all, we don't have to sit together and listen... :D
You might like this version though, Camerata Köln on cpo:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EG6S5G1CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
8)
I don't know if anyone has mentioned them, but the two Trios recorded by Kogan, Gilels and Rostropovitch are a model never reached.
Quote from: val on November 12, 2009, 02:10:45 AM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned them, but the two Trios recorded by Kogan, Gilels and Rostropovitch are a model never reached.
Val,
Are those different trios than the ones mentioned above by ccar? Doesn't say on the cover so I don't know which they are... :-\
8)
DOREMI edition (DRH 7921) - Haydn Piano Trios - Gilels Kogan Rostropovich
Hob.XV:16 1951 Moscow
1959 London (also available in BBC Legends 4024)
Hob.XV:19 1952 Moscow
Quote from: Mandryka on September 01, 2009, 09:53:02 AM
I don't have Rosen's book -- the one on Classicism. And I have tried to see the text on-line but failed. But apparently there's a whole chapter on the trios and the claim .. well I dunno exactly. I guess that they are very very great, like Concertos 14 - 24 (but unlike the violin sonatas -- which are less than that)
I think Rosen mainly claims that the late trios are severely underrated and very good pieces that are/were hardly performed because the strings mostly double the piano and esp. the cello part is not very interesting to play.
The comparison with Mozart's piano concertos only seems to refer to the demands on the piano player, I believe. (This is p. 399 of the German translation, he says the late trios and Mozart's concertos are the most brilliant piano works before Beethoven. Which is probably not true anyway but Rosen's tends to ignore minor composers like Clementi or Dussek who wrote very brilliantly for the piano at the same time.)
When do the good ones start? I find Hob.15:12 e minor already a very good piece and more than merely charming. (All the earlier ones are also nice and charming if only occasionally more than that.) This makes about 20 pieces "lateish" (the numbers beyond 15:32 are actually early pieces again).
Overall even the great late ones are usually "lighter" in tone than some of the string quartets but this does not exclude "deep" movements; the great slow movement of symphony 102 started in a trio (15:26 f# minor).
I went with Patrick Cohen, Erich Hobarth, and Christophe Coin on Harmonia Mundi. They didn't record all of the trios, but four discs is enough for me and I thought they sounded best of all the recordings I heard.
Quote from: ShineyMcShineShine on March 24, 2018, 05:51:40 AM
I went with Patrick Cohen, Erich Hobarth, and Christophe Coin on Harmonia Mundi. They didn't record all of the trios, but four discs is enough for me and I thought they sounded best of all the recordings I heard.
Those are excellent, very commendable. Actually there are 6 disks, 5 of them with violin and the 6th with the flute trios.
And even though I disagree with the idea that the early works are in some way inferior, these begin at Hob 15:12 and continue to the end (Hob 15:29). The trios he wrote in the mid-1780's (Hob 5-14) are all first rate music too, and it's sad to have them left out.
Trio 1790 do them on Disk 1 of their set, definitely a winner!
8)
Of the HIP recordings I have heard (Van Swieten, 1790 (about half), Levin/Beths/Bylsma and 2 disks with Cohen/Höbarth/Coin) the last one has the "warmest" and fullest sound, so I can understand the preference. However, I think the other HIPster have a little more energy in the faster pieces and and a leaner sound has sometimes also advantages. But Cohen et al. are quite unique both in sound and in their somewhat leisurely relaxed approach.
Quote from: Que on February 09, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Another vote for the Van Swieten Trio! :)
Really great performances, beautifully recorded and a complete set for a very nice price.
I'd leave the "modern" renditions (BAT) for what they are - as can be expected of non-HIP Haydn: rather out-of-character IMO. 8)
Q
Ten years ago, I recommended the Van Swieten Trio (Brilliant).... Since then, I switched allegiances:
[asin]B005XP612S[/asin]
Quote from: Gordo on November 18, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
In addition, it's quite different compared to the van Swieten Trio, both in terms of instruments (harpsichord for the early trios) and performance (quite more "alert" than the interpretation on Brilliant Classics).
Quote from: Que on November 18, 2015, 10:36:46 PM
I got the set by the Van Swieten Trio first, and hugely enjoyed it! :) But I have to say that the Trio 1790 takes it to another level. It is not just the more varied instruments, it is the level of intensity, the nuance in playing, the expressiveness. I would describe the Van Swieten as a more "mellow" approach... Trio 1790 grabs me...
Q
With the complete box available cheaply the Trio 1790 is certainly a top recommendation. While they are probably more correct with the harpsichord in the early pieces, I also like to have them with fortepiano. I probably should compare their disks of later pieces with the Van Swieten. Back when I bought the latter the 1790 was still in progress and I did not find the two disks I had better than the Van Swieten. Actually, I seem to recall that I found the slightly more mellow sound (esp. of the keyboard) preferable to the 1790... it was not a very strong preference but the former had both completeness and price as advantage.
Cohen/Höbarth/Coin certainly take the mellowness to another level, they are far more different from both Van Swieten and 1790 than the last two are between each other.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81gsSvd6w6L._SL500_.jpg)
Haydn Piano Trios — Mendelssohn Piano Trio
[ Vol. 1 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lIiXSOs0DVNzp-NHhMMpuH3o101_jEPe0) | Vol. 2 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_moHgJCWxpfQ08E_mLhrYvMCC6wUwemtCE) | Vol. 3 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lCh1IwwW4_zaK-UV4NFeWiKarULCB10O8) | Vol. 4 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mnK2kGoRjYn2-DYdO_octgxBUKG1AKF34) | Vol. 5 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kVK2lHjUVYQQpeln5bNVNmfhT5WH-_XUg) | Vol. 6 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kM2RP10HfEW7ReDF385i1DsBgp-2W3bms) | Vol. 7 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nQ-DJt0ju6xKLRbqMWxhr_P7pQJgJD4xM) | Vol. 8 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lD9qMBg3_tqeDGPMxdgNiciYb91n4PXek) ]
39 Trios (recorded)
—
1, 2, —, —, 5, 6, 7, (lost), (lost), 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, —
—, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30
31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45
No. 3 in G major, Hoboken XIV:6 (composed 1767)
No. 4 in F major, Hoboken XV:39 (composed 1767)
—
No. 8 in D major, Hoboken XV:33 (lost) (composed 1771; possibly 1760)
No. 9 in D major, Hoboken XV:D1 (lost) (composed 1771)
—
No. 15 in D major, Hoboken XV:deest
No. 16 in C major, Hoboken XIV:C1 (composed 1766; possibly 1760)
Numbering and other information — from Wikipedia page List of piano trios by Joseph Haydn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_piano_trios_by_Joseph_Haydn).
//
Quote from: Que on March 24, 2018, 11:41:31 PM
Ten years ago, I recommended the Van Swieten Trio (Brilliant).... Since then, I switched allegiances:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPaBFdSjL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41X7NjVsptL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Jnf8J6QnL.jpg)
Note that this quote is from
Que in 2018 indicating a preference for Trio 1790 in the 'period instrument' category - thought that I would revisit my collection of
Papa Haydn's Piano Trios; currently own the three sets above - I'd like to cull out one set just to give me some storage, so having listened this morning to several discs of each box, I'd have to concur w/
Que, i.e. I prefer Trio 1790 over the Van Swieten Trio (been reading some reviews which helped me make a choice - attached for those interested). As to Haydn Trio Eisenstadt on a modern piano - well, in this transitional instrument era, I often like to have both a PI and a MI version of works that qualify. For further reading, there is a nice MusicWeb Essay HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/trio_survey/Piano_trio_survey_Haydn.pdf) that discusses most of these releases.
Also, there was a post last year (by
SergeCpp) discussing/linking the 8 volumes of these works by the Mendelssohn Piano Trio on Centaur - not sure that these have been put in a box? At least some volumes are available on Spotify, so will take a listen. Dave :)
Some 20 years ago I felt the World didn't show much love for Haydn's Piano Trios, but this seems to have changed for the better.
I only have the BAT 9 CD set which I bought about 20 years ago for 299.99 mk (mk = Finnish Mark. This was just before Euros and 300 mk is about 50 euros). I enjoy that set a lot. I can't participate in the discussion about other sets.
For HIP La Gaia Scienza are the best performances I've heard, I wish they'd record them all. I don't find Trio 1790 that engaging. Overall favorite set remains Beaux Arts Trio.
Quote from: hvbias on August 20, 2021, 09:44:48 AM
For HIP La Gaia Scienza are the best performances I've heard, I wish they'd record them all. I don't find Trio 1790 that engaging. Overall favorite set remains Beaux Arts Trio.
My own favourite, for reasons I can't explain, it just is, is the one with Jerome Hantai.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 20, 2021, 09:58:13 AM
My own favourite, for reasons I can't explain, it just is, is the one with Jerome Hantai.
Superb in Op. 71/2! Just ordered that CD.
Quote from: hvbias on August 20, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
Superb in Op. 71/2!
op.71/2 is a string quartet! Which trio are you referring to?
Quote from: Jo498 on August 21, 2021, 12:26:56 AM
op.71/2 is a string quartet! Which trio are you referring to?
You're right, I've even had the Auryn Quartet cycle in my heavy rotation (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,30189.0.html) since last year so that was a really half awake response.
It was Trio 36 I listened to.
edit: Auvidis has it wrong on the back of the CD, my mistake for not spending a fraction thinking about it.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-GE7SJ73L._SL1365_.jpg)