Well, obviously, the 'percolating' percussion at the end of the Scherzo of the Fourth.
The harp ostinato accompaniment (which echoes one of the Pushkin Romances) in the finale of the Fifth.
The wind chorale in the Seventh.
The retransition, in the last movement, to the motto theme from the first mvt, in terrifying fortissimo, in the Eighth.
Well I suppose mine is obvious but the first movement of the 5th when all eight horns play the main theme forte in the bass clef. One of the most unique horn passages in music.
....Going to Lincoln Center to hear Andrey Boreyko conduct Shostakovich's Fourth and discovering you have a front-row seat because the orchestra was so darn large, they took out the first three rows.... ;D ;D
...There are many favorite and unforgettable moments in this highly emotional, if not disturbing piece. Experiencing it, sitting so close -- in your face as it were -- only intensifies and amplifies its many emotions. The eruption of the tympani toward the end of the final movement is as exhausting as it is exhilirating and hard to forget....
(http://www.barynya.com/ad/images/andrey_boreyko.jpg)
The 4th movement of the 11th. The dark theme from the first movement comes back, this time a bit different and with a solo, leading to the stunning ending!
I luuuuvvvvv the 10th from start to finish, but one highlight is the final movement of the 10th symphony towards the end where the big D-S-C-H motif explodes ferociously out of the blue. Its a really emotionally overwhelming moment.
The 13th has been my very favorite since I heard it performed last fall. A few favorite moments:
The rhythmic section in the first movement, "Babi Yar", which commences at the mention of "Byelostok".
The crushing climax to the 3rd movement "At the Store".
The haunting flute duet that opens the 5th movement "A career".
The weird coda of the 15th with that percussion battery over a pedal point in the strings.
The icy, haunting second theme in the first movement of the Fifth.
Sarge
The parts of the last movement of the 5th that was in the Great Conductors of the Century video in which Lenny was conducting. When I hear it I instantly sees Lenny sweating, dancing and pulling sounds out of the orchestra who must be really hating this guy at that moment! ("I know what I am asking you to do goes against your training as string players, but YOU MUST!")
I was just going to start this thread when I saw it! :'(
by Symphony......
1) the flutes melody in the first movement
2) the long crescendo, of course! One of the best moments in any of his symphonies.
3) can't really think of anything- definitely his weakest sym
4) see pic.... plus, well, the rest
5) hmmmmmmm the harp, horn, flute melody?
6) flute solo
7) whole first movement, love seeing that gentle melody thrashed around by horns
8 ) not too familiar with this one
9) first movement- can't possibly be this joyous and bouncy, could it?
10) the whole thing!
11) the whole thing again! Especially the serene opening theme, and the part around the middle of the second movement where the snare drum and basses break the silence. It's like a musical description of evil army tanks taking over a calm land and blowing up the whole place.
12) can't think of anything
13) the opening flutes theme in the last movement. So serene and.... well, i guess i don't have the words. :P
14) lots here...... "the suicide" song, the solo xylophone melody, the strings glissandoing up until the solo tubular bell note is played...... and the ending, so unusual but an ending I like to here, since it's an ending I haven't already heard 5 million times!
15) love how he kinda "mocks" Rossini in the first movement.
That passage for the lower strings in the 11th.
Allan
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 29, 2008, 04:53:09 AM
The weird coda of the 15th with that percussion battery over a pedal point in the strings.
(* Jeevesian cough *)Quote from: karlhenning on February 28, 2008, 04:21:25 AM
Well, obviously, the 'percolating' percussion at the end of the Scherzo of the Fourth.
He also alludes to that groove in the
Second Cello ConcertoThe allusion even in the
Second Cello Concerto would not have been an entirely 'private' joke, since by then (at long last) the
Fourth Symphony had finally been premiered, in the USSR and abroad.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 29, 2008, 06:28:58 AM
(* Jeevesian cough *)
What's wrong, Karl? Speak your mind.
Sarge
Oh, nothing remotely wrong, Sarge! It was something of a Great minds &c. moment.
QuoteThe weird coda of the 15th with that percussion battery over a pedal point in the strings.
oh yeah, i remember it now! Somehow just thinking about the description brought the music back to mind. Yep, that one along with the ending of the 14th are both very unusual and surprising endings :o
Quote from: karlhenning on February 29, 2008, 06:53:15 AM
Oh, nothing remotely wrong, Sarge! It was something of a Great minds &c. moment.
Ah... :)
As long as you don't object, that is, to the suggestion that my mind is nearly as great as yours . . . .
None. Zero. Zip.
Look, all I said was how pleased I am for Elliott Carter that he did not have to wait until he was 100 for public recognition 8)
The opening song for the bass in the Fourteenth is one of his topdrawer weird ideas- Shostakovich distilled.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 29, 2008, 09:55:28 AM
Look, all I said was how pleased I am for Elliott Carter that he did not have to wait until he was 100 for public recognition 8)
;D Nothing against you, Karl, but I am just not a Shosty fan. There are some moments in the symphnies I can tolerate better than others, but there's nothing in them I really like.
His 10th, right at the start of the 2nd movement. It's "savagely brooding" if that makes any sense what so ever.
Oh, do I ever love the recap in the first movement of the Tenth!
All of my favorites have been mentioned... the horns in the 1st mvt of 5, the monumental crescendo of the 2nd... The DSCH proclamation in the 0th... Except for one. In the 3rd movement of the 5th symphony, there is a place at the end of the first subjects field, where the harp accompanies a flute duet - this along with the immediately following emotional blackness is my favorite.
The monstrous, swirling fugue in the first movement of the Fourth.
In the 14th symphony, the stroke of genius of following the furious epilogue to Zaporozhye Cossacks' Reply To the Sultan Of Constantinople with O Delvig, Delvig--the heart of the work.
The Long March theme from Symphony No 7, as it builds and builds to the climax. I suppose the entire movement is a favorite.
Also love the starting theme to the second movement of Symphony No 8 and how the ochestra just seems to pounce here, along with the more harrowing one which commences on woodwind and is later picked up by rest of the orchestra in the third movment to symphony no 10 (the begining of the DSCH, from memory).
Quote from: Danny on February 29, 2008, 01:43:29 PM
The Long March theme from Symphony No 7, as it builds and builds to the climax. I suppose the entire movement is a favorite.
For some reason, when I heard that it reminded me exactly of Bolero.
Quote from: Danny on February 29, 2008, 01:43:29 PMThe Long March theme from Symphony No 7, as it builds and builds to the climax. I suppose the entire movement is a favorite.
It depends on who does it - it falls flat very easily in the wrong hands. They say to save your crescendos until the end - never was a truer word spake for this movement!
The last few minutes of the final movement of the fourth - from the huge ear shattering brass to the final heart beat like bass throbbing, and the piece dying away into darkness - brings a lump to my throat everytime. Best listened to loud in a dark room I find. Either that, or in the concert hall. CSO in May - can't wait.
Quote from: Sef on February 29, 2008, 03:43:56 PMBest listened to loud in a dark room I find.
I felt the same way about the 13th quartet but I decided I didn't like getting so depressed. The 13th quartet has been on a temporary leave of absence in my life for a while now.
Quote from: Dana on February 29, 2008, 03:52:03 PM
I felt the same way about the 13th quartet but I decided I didn't like getting so depressed. The 13th quartet has been on a temporary leave of absence in my life for a while now.
I can understand that! Its that & the 8th are my two favourite 4tets of his, but whereas the heart of the 8th is sorrowful, the 13th is just so damn bleak!
Quote from: Dana on February 29, 2008, 03:30:47 PM
It depends on who does it - it falls flat very easily in the wrong hands. They say to save your crescendos until the end - never was a truer word spake for this movement!
Agreed, Dana. But in the wrong hands most of the moments mentioned here would also fall flat, I think. ;)
Or perhaps that would all depend on which interpretation you prefer? ;D
Massive climax to end of last movement of Symphony 4
Return of percussion pattern from Symphony 4 at very end of Symphony 15 (very moving)
End of Symphony 11 and opening of work
Slow movement of Symphony 8
Passacaglia in Violin Concerto No 1(sorry, not a symphony!)
Does anyone else enjoy the final C-major resolution of the 8th symphony as much as I do? After so much death and destruction, it was all worth it at last for some piece of mind.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 29, 2008, 10:05:36 AM
Oh, do I ever love the recap in the first movement of the Tenth!
Me too
Quote from: Dana on March 01, 2008, 06:30:36 PM
Does anyone else enjoy the final C-major resolution of the 8th symphony as much as I do? After so much death and destruction, it was all worth it at last for some piece of mind.
yes
Symphony 8. At the very end of the symphony. Love that elongated squealing note which seems to howl like a distant jet engine over a seres of strangled mournful notes. (Excuse my lack of terminology. I can't read music, don't know much about it. But I know what I like)
I especially like this one:
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005O83L.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg)
You know, even though the second movement from the 10th symphony is undoubtedly a bigger adrenaline rush, I actually find the third movement from the 8th to be more terrifying.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 01, 2008, 02:55:32 PM
Passacaglia in Violin Concerto No 1(sorry, not a symphony!)
No apologies necessary
The passacaglia is the finest section anywhere is all of Shostakovich. One the finest in all CM. :)
The passacaglia which is the fourth movement of the Eighth Symphony.
And the passacaglia which is part of the finale of the Fifteenth Symphony.
All the harrowing parts of the 8th sym fist mov
In the fifth first movements ending, the transition from hope to fear is absolutely stunning.
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 15, 2010, 06:04:02 AM
In the fifth first movements ending, the transition from hope to fear is absolutely stunning.
What musically do you mean there?
Tocsin!
The quotation of the Ledi Makbet aria in the Eighth Quartet, of course. Deeply affecting.
Well I'm very weak in recognizing the instruments. ;D
5th, first movement: I mean about three minutes before the end of it you have that peaceful passage with a horn and flute - then mood goes down and about 2 Minutes before the end (after the horns) that (oboe?clarinet?) solo clocks in, which is very frightening. I also very much like the use of Glockenspiel here which goes very well with the mood.
Needless to say, the percussion ending of No. 15 is one of my favorite Shostakovich moments.
But hey, as for now I know his symphonies No. 1, 4, 5, 8, 10 a bit, 11 and 15, and there are numerous moments.
BTW, I'm very lucky: The fifth was new for me, listened (completely) to it the last couple of days and cannot get enough of it. The 2nd movement is a bit Mahlerian I think. The Largo: oh yes. This is a Symphony which I like as a whole. There are a lot others by other artists which I listen to only parts of it.
The opening of Shostakovich's 10th symphony, and all of the 1st movement really. It just unfolds, layer and layer, become more and more intense as the movement progresses.
Thanks WW for bringing this back up :)
Some of mine:
Fugue in the 4th (as mentioned by Edward) - just incredible!
8th: English horn solo in the 1st mvt. - talk about chills
10th: this is such a great symphony it's hard to single out individual moments. But after all these years, the massive climax at the center of the 1st mvt. (it keeps going...and going) still knocks me out. Especially the creepy build-up on bassoons and tympani.
13th: the atonal tuba solo that opens the 4th mvt. ("Fears")
15th: the percussion-drizzle ending, of course. But there's also a bit that gives me the chills just before the climax of the finale, where the violins, horns and xylophone (or is it glockenspiel?) just keep climbing and climbing into the stratosphere. It's vertiginous and always makes me a bit queasy.
Rozzy conducting the 11th's second movement, 'riot' scene.
One of my favourite moments has to be the explosion in the 3rd movement scherzo of the 12th Symphony, it's the moment when the drums go berserk, and just after, here's a link to YouTube, with Dudamel conducting, the moment is at 3:11,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8bwzRF9h6w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8bwzRF9h6w)
Quote from: Philoctetes on November 15, 2010, 10:14:23 AM
Rozzy conducting the 11th's second movement, 'riot' scene.
I think that might be the recording I have on CD (not sure). Does this one have trombones that are blaring so loud it sounds like the speakers are about to explode during the march? I really like that feature. ;D
The opening of Stokowski's 11.
The opening, and return, of the main theme to the first mvmt of 6.
The slow mvmt, and opening of Finale of 5.
When the oboe(?; clarinet?) comes in with the melody in the beginning of the first mvmt of 10.
Quote from: Velimir on November 15, 2010, 10:12:39 AM15th: the percussion-drizzle ending, of course. But there's also a bit that gives me the chills just before the climax of the finale, where the violins, horns and xylophone (or is it glockenspiel?) just keep climbing and climbing into the stratosphere. It's vertiginous and always makes me a bit queasy.
The percussion part always makes me JUMP :) I also love the melody which appears after the introduction of movement 4 and again in the ending. AND: The contrabass passage, when the oboe? solo appears. So lovely. SANDERLING! and Berliner SO.
Quote from: snyprrr on November 15, 2010, 11:09:56 AMWhen the oboe(?; clarinet?)
Haha, I'm not the only one who cannot distinguish both.
So in this thread we have, in your terminology: oboe(?; clarinet?) and xylophone(?; glockenspiel?)
Quote from: Greg on November 15, 2010, 10:45:54 AM
I think that might be the recording I have on CD (not sure). Does this one have trombones that are blaring so loud it sounds like the speakers are about to explode during the march? I really like that feature. ;D
Funny. I didn't notice that at all. >_>
Quote from: snyprrr on November 15, 2010, 11:09:56 AM
When the oboe(?; clarinet?) comes in with the melody in the beginning of the first mvmt of 10.
snyprrr and Wurstwasser, that is definitely a clarinet. :)
The clarinet is a bit lighter than the oboe? The oboe to the clarinet is what the viola is to the violin?
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 15, 2010, 11:22:15 AM
The clarinet is a bit lighter than the oboe? The oboe to the clarinet is what the viola is to the violin?
Vice versa, generally, actually. I hear the clarinet solo at the start of No 10 as being really dark, though. The clarinet does have a very broad range from lowest to highest notes, as you can hear on many a jazz recording!
Quote from: Philoctetes on November 15, 2010, 11:17:04 AM
Funny. I didn't notice that at all. >_>
Maybe mine actually is a different recording... I think they are muted trombones doing glissandi, too. There is also other brass playing at the same time- I think muted trumpets.
Quote from: Brian on November 15, 2010, 11:29:42 AMVice versa, generally, actually. I hear the clarinet solo at the start of No 10 as being really dark, though.
So in 15/4, the bass passage, is the bass accompanied by a clarinet then?
EDIT: 5:10 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLJGA8TSv1g&feature=related
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 15, 2010, 11:34:19 AM
So in 15/4, the bass passage, is the bass accompanied by a clarinet then?
EDIT: 5:10 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLJGA8TSv1g&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLJGA8TSv1g&feature=related)
Most definitely. I'm not sure if a normal oboe can even go that low.
Is any oboe really normal?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 15, 2010, 11:42:07 AM
Is any oboe really normal?
;D Well, I preferred to qualify it that way (to mean plain vanilla) just to prevent someone else from going... "actually, if you fit it with a cold-fusion-powered denormaliser, then it can."
Quote from: Opus106 on November 15, 2010, 11:45:17 AM
;D Well, I preferred to qualify it that way just to prevent someone else from going... "actually, if you fit it with cold-fusion-powered denormaliser, then it can."
Or if you turn it into a cor anglais ;)
The opening of the 10th symphony is perhaps my favorite thing in Shostakovitch, when the reeds emerge from that gloomy fugato for low strings, like the Loch Ness Monster rising from the gloomy water.
Quote from: Brian on November 15, 2010, 11:45:52 AM
Or if you turn it into a cor anglais ;)
or Oboe d'amore, or bassoon.
Thread duty:
As someone else pointed out, they're too many numerous to tally. But . . . the flutter-tongue flute variation in the passacaglia fourth movement of the Eighth Symphony.
The four-oboe 'wonky unison' in the first movement of the Fourth Symphony. (Definitely not oboe normal.)
Descent into the darkness at end of Symphony No 4.
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 15, 2010, 06:04:02 AM
In the fifth first movements ending, the transition from hope to fear is absolutely stunning.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 15, 2010, 01:09:14 PM
Descent into the darkness at end of Symphony No 4.
Really have to protest this sort of thing: speaking of one's impression of the music, as though it were a property of the music. It's the musicological equivalent of painting a mustache on La gioconda: the artwork means what my perception of it says it means.
I love the final passage of the Fourth Symphony; I think it cheapens the passage immeasurably, to boil it down to a single specific impression. Even from the perspective of you two chaps, it saddens me — because you've found a box to put the music in, a box which is far too small for the actual music.
Frankly, I don't hear a "descent to darkness" there at all. I feel space, quiet (of course, since it's a diminuendo after the monumental brass passage), and lightness (i.e., the absence of gravity). It's a miraculous passage . . . and its twin, at the end of the Eighth Symphony, is marvelous, too . . . though a twin of quite different character.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 15, 2010, 02:14:58 PM
Really have to protest this sort of thing: speaking of one's impression of the music, as though it were a property of the music. It's the musicological equivalent of painting a mustache on La gioconda: the artwork means what my perception of it says it means.
Aw, come on. I see no implication that these impressions are
a property of the music rather than personal reactions to the music.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 15, 2010, 02:41:39 PM
Aw, come on. I see no implication that these impressions are a property of the music rather than personal reactions to the music.
Okay. My favorite part of the Eleventh Symphony is the corkscrew into herbivorousness.
We all know where that is in the piece, I take it. Can't be mistaken for anything else in Shostakovich's music.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 15, 2010, 02:50:19 PM
Okay. My favorite part of the Eleventh Symphony is the corkscrew into herbivorousness.
We all know where that is in the piece, I take it. Can't be mistaken for anything else in Shostakovich's music.
Never really took to the 11th, I guess because the corkscrew eluded me. :-\
Allegro movement of Symphony No. 10 --- 'nuff said! ;D
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 15, 2010, 11:57:20 AMAs someone else pointed out, they're too many numerous to tally. But . . . the flutter-tongue flute variation in the passacaglia fourth movement of the Eighth Symphony.
Great one! I had that in mind, but didn't remember where it was in the eigth.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 15, 2010, 01:09:14 PMDescent into the darkness at end of Symphony No 4.
Most obviously :) I hear something like "getting lost in the fog" here - frightening.
What I really like about Shostakovich is when there is some beautyful and peaceful/positive playing in the foreground and at the same time unrest and uncertainty in the background, as in the beginning of
Symphony No. 1 - Lento-Largo. Had a great effect on me in the concert hall. Something like that is also there in the fifth, peaceful woodwid + restless violins, but don't remember where. I guess this IS Shostakovich.
1) what I call the whiplash moment in the Fourth, when the strings, having raced almost out of control, are suddenly stopped dead in their tracks by the percussion
2) the second and third movements of the Eighth
3) the second movement of the Eleventh
And, as it happens, these three are my favorite DSCH symphonies, although not merely because of the above "big moments".
There are many favourite passages, of course (the 4th and the 13th are particularly full of them for me personally) but as for single split-second moments as per the thread title - well, I can easily reduce it to one -
the entry of the second flute in the slow movement of 5. Although that's a movement chocka with both great moments (usually involving the solo wind or the harp), and great passages (such as the climactic cello sweep up to high A). But to me, that low flute note, so simple and unpretentious, seems to contain universes and open up huge mysterious vistas. Hey, maybe it's just me ;D
Mmm, nice.
Anyone mention the big buildup in the 2nd?
(though unfortunately that's about all it has going for it)
Quote from: Greg on November 16, 2010, 05:56:20 AMAnyone mention the big buildup in the 2nd?
"Has anyone ever listened to the 2nd?"
(a minor correction of your question) ;)
BTW, what's our "main" Shostakovich thread? It's unclear to me after a forum search.
EDIT: "Dmitri's Datcha" - I should have searched in the right forum.
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 16, 2010, 06:29:36 AM
"Has anyone ever listened to the 2nd?"
(a minor correction of your question) ;)
Hah!
Okay, I'll say it: I like the Second! And I'm glad, I tell you! : )
With a nod to Luke's apt refinement . . . that sudden crescendo which opens the fourth movement of the Fifth, following as it does the quiet fragility of the close of the Largo, gets me every time.
And that moment in the fourth movement of the Fifth Symphony, after the sustained shimmering chord in the strings with the harp ostinato (drawn, IIRC, from one of the Opus 46 Pushkin Romances), when the basses bring in a quiet tritone to prepare a sudden harmonic shift for the recap.
Ha, just found this! :D Let's see:
Symphony #1: the snare drum roll between the third and last movements.
Symphony #4, last movement: the final reappearance of the main theme in the low brass, fff; the long fadeout with celesta.
Symphony #8, first movement: the English horn solo towards the end. (Of course, I'm prejudiced; I play English horn. ;D)
Symphony #10, first movement: the piccolo duet at the end. Second movement--the whole thing.
Symphony #14, third "song:" the chime stroke that interrupts the string rush.
Quote from: jochanaan on November 16, 2010, 11:13:02 AM
[Symphony #4] the long fadeout with celesta.
Yes. For me, a new addition today.
I am surprised to find that I'm one of only three respondents who have mentioned the ending of the 11th.
Quote from: Opus106 on November 16, 2010, 11:24:02 AM
Yes. For me, a new addition today.
I am surprised to find that I'm one of only three respondents who have mentioned the ending of the 11th.
Well, now there are four of us. ;D Actually, the entire 11th--one of my favorite Shostakovich symphonies--is filled with fave moments.
Others:
Symphony No. 4: Too many to count--currently my favorite of his symphonies.
Symphony No. 6: At the very end of the second movement, the ascending woodwind scale that ends it.
Symphony No. 10: All of the Allegro, one of my favorite pieces of music by anyone.
Symphony No. 15: The whirring, clicking ending of the entire piece, with the strings holding a softly sustained pedal while the percussion section throws out all sorts of castanets, wood blocks, drums and xylophone--miraculous.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on November 16, 2010, 11:43:54 AM
Well, now there are four of us. ;D Actually, the entire 11th--one of my favorite Shostakovich symphonies--is filled with fave moments.
:) Coming to these works for the first time, I was under the assumption that 11th was one among the most popular of the lot. Apparently not. The Tenth's ending is just too happy for me (similarly, the 5th's too), although I like the work as a whole.
Quote from: Opus106 on November 16, 2010, 11:54:40 AM
:) Coming to these works for the first time, I was under the assumption that 11th was one among the most popular of the lot. Apparently not. The Tenth's ending is just too happy for me (similarly, the 5th's too), although I like the work as a whole.
That's what I thought, too, on hearing the 11th the first time, e.g., "Wow, this must be a huge hit," but no, it's not.
However, I challenge anyone to hear a good live performance of it--I've been lucky to hear it maybe three times in concert--and come away unmoved. The last time was a couple of years ago with the Cleveland Orchestra, and they were able to play it, shall we say, "more than decently." ;D ;D ;D
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on November 16, 2010, 12:15:45 PM
That's what I thought, too, on hearing the 11th the first time, e.g., "Wow, this must be a huge hit," but no, it's not.
I'm one of those people who don't get it.
Quote from: bhodges on November 16, 2010, 12:15:45 PM
That's what I thought, too, on hearing the 11th the first time, e.g., "Wow, this must be a huge hit," but no, it's not.
However, I challenge anyone to hear a good live performance of it--I've been lucky to hear it maybe three times in concert--and come away unmoved. The last time was a couple of years ago with the Cleveland Orchestra, and they were able to play it, shall we say, "more than decently." ;D ;D ;D
--Bruce
Guess what Vasily Petrenko is conducting next week with the London Philharmonic. 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: Brian on November 16, 2010, 12:31:22 PM
Guess what Vasily Petrenko is conducting next week with the London Philharmonic. 8) 8) 8)
That's a piece I'd love to hear done well, live. For it hasn't quite made a great claim on my sonic affections, either : )
Quote from: Brian on November 16, 2010, 12:31:22 PM
Guess what Vasily Petrenko is conducting next week with the London Philharmonic. 8) 8) 8)
And I guess you're going, you lucky dog! 8) Do report back...
--Bruce
Quote from: Brian on November 16, 2010, 12:31:22 PM
Guess what Vasily Petrenko is conducting next week with the London Philharmonic. 8) 8) 8)
I'll have an eye out for air-checks. Was it the LSO or the LPO that offered free downloads/streaming(?) of some of their concerts?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 15, 2010, 02:14:58 PM
Really have to protest this sort of thing: speaking of one's impression of the music, as though it were a property of the music. It's the musicological equivalent of painting a mustache on La gioconda: the artwork means what my perception of it says it means.
I love the final passage of the Fourth Symphony; I think it cheapens the passage immeasurably, to boil it down to a single specific impression. Even from the perspective of you two chaps, it saddens me — because you've found a box to put the music in, a box which is far too small for the actual music.
Hi Karl,
I don't for one minute suggest that my own subjective reaction to the end of Shostakovich's 4th Symphony is what the music actually 'means' - that would be absurd and presumptious. I guess that in view of the time of its composition, during the Great Purges in the USSR and being a history teacher myself - I tend to see the work as reflecting the time of its composition to some extent, although this is my own personal reaction.
Jeffrey
Quote from: bhodges on November 16, 2010, 11:43:54 AMSymphony No. 4: Too many to count--currently my favorite of his symphonies.
Interesting. I didn't get the point of the symphony as a whole - OK, just had two complete listenings.
Quote from: Opus106 on November 16, 2010, 12:43:19 PM
I'll have an eye out for air-checks. Was it the LSO or the LPO that offered free downloads/streaming(?) of some of their concerts?
Sadly, I don't know. :(
Quote from: vandermolen on November 16, 2010, 03:54:16 PM
Hi Karl,
I don't for one minute suggest that my own subjective reaction to the end of Shostakovich's 4th Symphony is what the music actually 'means' - that would be absurd and presumptious. I guess that in view of the time of its composition, during the Great Purges in the USSR and being a history teacher myself - I tend to see the work as reflecting the time of its composition to some extent, although this is my own personal reaction.
Jeffrey
I appreciate that, Jeffrey, thanks. I must have had a bad clam in the chowder.
Quote from: bhodges on November 16, 2010, 11:43:54 AM
Symphony No. 4: Too many to count--currently my favorite of his symphonies.
Very often mine, as well, Bruce!
The 4th is full of wonderful moments, and the discussion about the end brings to mind the question "just what is the celesta doing floating upwards at the end?"
I think Schnittke once not-entirely-frivolously claimed his entire oeuvre was an attempt to answer that question--an unanswerable one, of course, but the rising celesta does for me add a question mark to the end of a work that would otherwise end in unambiguous tragedy. (And that, to me, is one of the strokes of--pace Josquin--genius in the work.)
Quote from: edward on November 17, 2010, 05:42:33 AM
The 4th is full of wonderful moments, and the discussion about the end brings to mind the question "just what is the celesta doing floating upwards at the end?"
I think Schnittke once not-entirely-frivolously claimed his entire oeuvre was an attempt to answer that question--an unanswerable one, of course, but the rising celesta does for me add a question mark to the end of a work that would otherwise end in unambiguous tragedy.
The celesta begins with a four-note figure, ascending at leaps, arpeggiating the tonic c minor triad. That gesture repeats literally. It is in harmony with the rest of the texture, but is trying to rise out from among it? At the last, there are two single pitches, neither of them chord-tones, extending the ascent.
So simple, but so rich.
And so wrong for the musical environment of its time . . . .[ Edit :: typos, atrocious typos ]
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 17, 2010, 05:55:30 AM
The celesta begins with a four-note figure, ascending at leaps, arpeggiating the tonic c minor triad. That gesture repeats literally. It is in harmpny with the rest of the texture, but is trying to rise out from among it? At the last, there are two single pitches, neither of them chord-tones, extended the ascent.
So simple, but so rich.
And so wrong for the musical environment of its time . . . .
Exactly. The stroke of genius for me is how those last two notes call the rest of the coda into question: I don't have a recording or score with me at the moment, but as I recall almost everything in the coda is based around the C minor triad (stop me if I'm wrong!). And so as the music is limping to a close, DSCH adds those two very quiet last notes (they're still in a C minor scale, I believe) that completely subvert the triadic harmony.
And I find this one of the most remarkable moments in a symphony chock-full with such; two soft notes subtly changing the whole end of the work.
This whole thread makes me want to listen to the 4th and the 11th much more closely again, i have discs of Jarvi [Chandos] and Jansons [EMI] in the 4th, and Bychkov [Philips] in the 11th, anyone have any other recommendations?.
I haven't heard either of the 4th's you mention, but would imagine Jansons, especially, would be excellent. The one that has captured me lately is Haitink's live recording with Chicago (below).
And I guess I'm fond of Haitink's way with Shostakovich, since the 11th I still adore is his 1980s recording with the Concertgebouw. It has fantastic playing and recording--perhaps a little on the cool side--but the orchestra's percussion section has a field day.
--Bruce
Quote from: Opus106 on November 16, 2010, 11:54:40 AM
:) Coming to these works for the first time, I was under the assumption that 11th was one among the most popular of the lot. Apparently not. The Tenth's ending is just too happy for me (similarly, the 5th's too), although I like the work as a whole.
The "happiness" at the very end of 10 is a rather sardonic happiness.
In the first movement of the 5th symphony, the end with the violin solo over pianissimo bass playing the opening motif.
The last movement of the 5th, after the slow section, where the snare, and brass enter.
The last movement of the 4th, the Climax in sound, with the almost false heroic ending.
The whole 3rd movement of the 7th symphony, especially the middle to late part.
The opening of the first movement of the 10th with the basses. Also in the first movement, the climax in the middle.
The 2nd mov. of the 10th as a whole.
The 1st movement in the 11th, around the middle of the Rostropovich recording, there's a part that almost sounds very open, almost angelic. Can't really explain it.
the 2nd movement of the 11th, the wild part in the middle.
The whole last movement of the 11th.
In the 13th, 1st movement, where the chorus re-enters after the brass climax.
The 4th movement opening with bass and i think Tuba
14th, the beginning of the 9th movement "O Delvig, Delvig" The slow, sweeping strings, after a chaotic end to the previous movement.
Quote from: Octo_Russ on November 17, 2010, 09:06:26 AM
This whole thread makes me want to listen to the 4th and the 11th much more closely again, i have discs of Jarvi [Chandos] and Jansons [EMI] in the 4th, and Bychkov [Philips] in the 11th, anyone have any other recommendations?.
For the 11th (and the 8th as well), my introduction was Rostropovich on LSO Live, and I still consider them top tier performances, although I haven't heard the performances you mention, or several of the other usual suspects. I do have Mravinksy's 8th, and still rate the Rostropovich better.
For the Fourth, the same comment would apply to Gergiev's recording, which I prefer to the Haitink on CSO Resound.
Quote from: Daverz on November 17, 2010, 02:37:12 PM
The "happiness" at the very end of 10 is a rather sardonic happiness.
How can we tell? ; )
Quote from: jochanaan on November 16, 2010, 11:13:02 AM
Symphony #10, first movement: the piccolo duet at the end.
Glad I am not the only one who LOVES this moment. It's just exquisite. One of my favorite moments in music.
Quote from: Daverz on November 17, 2010, 02:37:12 PM
The "happiness" at the very end of 10 is a rather sardonic happiness.
Perhaps I'll
learn to feel that after listening to it a few more times. ;)
Every time I listen to new piece I take time to try and read about the circumstances under which it was created. With Shostakovich, I really don't know what to believe and what not to. He would have said things about his ideas to a musician friend, only later to deny it. Much of this coming out of Stalinist or post-Stalinist Russia.
Testimony will surely have something to say on this as well. But that book is not far from controversy, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, there are things that the critics have to say as well. ::)
:-\
So, without going very deep into the history of the pieces, I simply let the music guide my emotions.
Quote from: edward on November 17, 2010, 05:42:33 AMI think Schnittke once not-entirely-frivolously claimed his entire oeuvre was an attempt to answer that question--an unanswerable one, of course, but the rising celesta does for me add a question mark to the end of a work that would otherwise end in unambiguous tragedy. (And that, to me, is one of the strokes of--pace Josquin--genius in the work.)
The Glockenspiel sounding thing? Yeah, the final note is exactly the sound equivalent of a question mark.
The Allegro of the 11th, the loud passage with all the timpany and snare drums, before the percussion breaks off, is pure DANCE MUSIC, I love it, it rocks, it should be played in dancehalls.
Quote from: bhodges on November 17, 2010, 09:15:15 AMI haven't heard either of the 4th's you mention, but would imagine Jansons, especially, would be excellent. The one that has captured me lately is Haitink's live recording with Chicago (below).
As for the ending of the Symphony, the Haitink/Chicago is just plain terrible, beause: You can't really hear the trumpet - which is the most genious and important moment for me. You can hear it much better in the Janssons/Concertgebouw(IIRC).
EDIT: Not Concertgebouw. With Bavarian Radio Symphony.
I mean 03:00 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9pt6Zs_F0&NR=1
Quote from: Opus106 on November 18, 2010, 07:49:19 AM
Perhaps I'll learn to feel that after listening to it a few more times. ;)
Every time I listen to new piece I take time to try and read about the circumstances under which it was created.
Always interesting, of course, but I'm not referring to any subtextual reading, but simply the very strong emotional impression I get from the music itself. We get a largely tragic symphony that suddenly ends with giddy, drunken circus music. This is not the triumphal joy of any symphony I've ever heard. I hear it as the only response left after so much crushing tragedy: laughter at the cosmic joke played on humanity.
Quote from: Wurstwasser on November 18, 2010, 08:50:09 AM
As for the ending of the Symphony, the Haitink/Chicago is just plain terrible, beause: You can't really hear the trumpet - which is the most genious and important moment for me.
I hear it.
It's certainly important. It's the 'resolution' of a figure which the horn first plays (after the quiet follows the brass perorations, I mean), and then the flute echoes, transposed a perfect fourth higher. Both the horn and the flute, though, play the figure (rhythmically varied but) largely as it has appeared numerous times before: a three-note ascent, first a perfect fourth, then a tritone, then spiraling down in a recoiling descent. The trumpet at the end, though, first plays those ascending three notes, arriving at an F#, then plays it transposed up a half-step, so that he lands at G (a chord tone in c minor, of course.
Quote from: Daverz on November 18, 2010, 08:52:32 AM
Always interesting, of course, but I'm not referring to any subtextual reading, but simply the very strong emotional impression I get from the music itself. We get a largely tragic symphony that suddenly ends with giddy, drunken circus music. This is not the triumphal joy of any symphony I've ever heard. I hear it as the only response left after so much crushing tragedy: laughter at the cosmic joke played on humanity.
That was the kind of what I felt after listening to the 6th, although not that strongly.
Quote from: Opus106 on November 16, 2010, 11:54:40 AM.... just too happy for me (similarly, the 5th's too)...
Try to listen to the Rostropovich National Symphony version. It is the polar opposite of happy: more like grinning/grimacing through the pain. It will utterly change how you hear that finale.
Sarge
Quote from: Octo_Russ on November 17, 2010, 09:06:26 AM
This whole thread makes me want to listen to the 4th and the 11th much more closely again, i have discs of Jarvi [Chandos] and Jansons [EMI] in the 4th, and Bychkov [Philips] in the 11th, anyone have any other recommendations?.
Quote from: kishnevi on November 17, 2010, 07:35:01 PM
For the 11th (and the 8th as well), my introduction was Rostropovich on LSO Live, and I still consider them top tier performances
The Rostropovich LSO Live is my favorite 11th too. For the Fourth: Rozhdestvensky and Previn/Chicago...Rattle too (and I'm not normally a fan of Sir Simon).
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 20, 2010, 04:20:59 AM
Try to listen to the Rostropovich National Symphony version. It is the polar opposite of happy: more like grinning/grimacing through the pain. It will utterly change how you hear that finale.
Sarge
Thanks for the rec. :) Which label is this on?
Quote from: Opus106 on November 20, 2010, 04:57:34 AM
Thanks for the rec. :) Which label is this on?
It's on PentaTone, and Sarge made a typo - the conductor's name is Yakov Kreizberg with the Russian National Orchestra.
Actually, it's on Teldec, and I haven't heard Rostropovich, but Kreizberg is another conductor who really "nails" the pain and suffering of the finale. In Dave Hurwitz' apt phrase, "the movement heaves its lacerated carcass through the final bars."
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 20, 2010, 04:20:59 AM
Try to listen to the Rostropovich National Symphony version. It is the polar opposite of happy: more like grinning/grimacing through the pain. It will utterly change how you hear that finale.
Sarge
Quote from: Brian on November 20, 2010, 05:02:46 AM
It's on PentaTone, and Sarge made a typo - the conductor's name is Yakov Kreizberg with the Russian National Orchestra.
Actually, it's on Teldec, and I haven't heard Rostropovich, but Kreizberg is another conductor who really "nails" the pain and suffering of the finale. In Dave Hurwitz' apt phrase, "the movement heaves its lacerated carcass through the final bars."
Oops! I just realised that Sarge was talking about the 5th, and not about the 10th. I already have a Slava/NSO in the 5th. It is from DG, however. And thanks for your reco-emendation, Brian. ;D
Quote from: Opus106 on November 20, 2010, 08:54:41 AM
I already have a Slava/NSO in the 5th. It is from DG, however.
The DG is the one I was referring to specifically although the Teldec version (recorded ten years later as part of his cycle) is similar in mood and timings.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 20, 2010, 09:50:51 AM
The DG is the one I was referring to specifically although the Teldec version (recorded ten years later as part of his cycle) is similar in mood and timings.
Sarge
Ah, all right. I'm just about to give it a "midnight spin." :)
Favourite moments....
1) The "Nazi" theme in the 1st movement of the Leningrad - if it's done properly.
(Of course, it wasn't about the Nazis at all, but about the enemies of freedom within the USSR itself (esp. Stalin) and, on a wider scale, the enemies of freedom everywhere.)
So, IMHO the trick to pulling this off is for the conductor to get the first variations of the theme to sound happy and jolly - rather like a the vibe of a communist propaganda film showing smiling peasants bringing in the harvest. Then.....it gradually turns nasty. Then.....it turns bloody terrifying.
(Just as "Uncle Joe" was gradually revealed to be a psychopathic mass-murderer, and indeed as any powerful figure can be hiding tremendous evil behind a facade of righteousness.)
2) The finale of No 10, where, at the very instant that the side-drummers rattle out their ominous rhythm from the Stalin-inspired scherzo, it is counterattacked - and vanquished - by the DSCH motto-theme, leading to a tumultuous shout of joy in the final bars. Brilliant!
Is Shostakovich 11 w/Haitink/Concertgebouw teh rox?! After a first listen: Yes! Very powerful and all those mysterious passages - very convincing!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XGXQX3B1L._SS500_.jpg)
I definitely want to hear the 11th live one day.
Has anyone here seen the Russian film "Soleil Trompeur"?
Circa 1994, or therabouts. It expressed very well the rampant paranoia of Soviet society under Stalin. Karel Ancerl's recording of Shostakovich's Tenth Symphony aptly describes that paranoia, from beginning to end. Frightening.
hmm....
Final few minutes of the finale to no.1.
The climax following that frantic string passage in no.4.
The flute/horn duet accompanied by harp and strings near the end of the 1st movement of no.5.
The first 3 (or so) minutes of the finale of the 6th symphony.
The climax and ending of the last movement of the 10th symphony, these would have to be my absolute favourite Shostakovich moments.
The climax of the second movement of the 11th symphony with the thudding percussion and triplets in the rest of the orchestra.
The massive percussion climax in the "aurora" movement of the 12th symphony along with the final few movements of the finale movement.
So many great moments in the Shostakovich symphonies! :)
Daniel
Two things, but don't shoot me if I'm not exact.
I love the melancholy cadence that occurs in both the 14th symphony and the 15th.
And I love the starry night percussion at the end of the 15th and the Michelangelo Sonnets.
Quote from: Herman on September 10, 2011, 08:58:15 AM
And I love the starry night percussion at the end of the 15th and the Michelangelo Sonnets.
Agreed. ;D
The cor anglais solo in the final movement of the 11th.
Quote from: Herman on September 10, 2011, 08:58:15 AM
Two things, but don't shoot me if I'm not exact.
I love the melancholy cadence that occurs in both the 14th symphony and the 15th.
In the 15th it occurs in the coda of the slow mvt, between the Glockenspiel (?) and the low brass chorale.
I really love the 15th symphony, always did. (Hope she loves me back.)
Quote from: Opus106 on September 10, 2011, 10:01:59 AMThe cor anglais solo in the final movement of the 11th.
Where? I know there's an Oboe solo, followed by bass clarinet, clarinet and others...
Quote from: Tapio Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on September 12, 2011, 04:44:48 AM
Where? I know there's an Oboe solo, followed by bass clarinet, clarinet and others...
I could be mistaken, of course. The part I'm referring to is
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e3k5OVvDNA&feature=player_profilepage#t=30s).
Speaking of clarinets, how is your playing now? :)
Quote from: Opus106 on September 12, 2011, 05:58:32 AMI could be mistaken, of course. The part I'm referring to is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e3k5OVvDNA&feature=player_profilepage#t=30s).
I'm referring to the same part, it's most beautiful and also my favourite passage in 11/mvmt#4. But you're right, it's a Cor anglais.
QuoteSpeaking of clarinets, how is your playing now? :)
Oh yes, time for a new report: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17713.40.html