My latest work. There's more to this than meets the eye. Any comments or criticism welcome.
You can download the free composing software I used via this link!
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/post5570.html#5570
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/76fa3c4e518776a250221fed9d2d69f55g.jpg)
If you prefer not to be directed to Rod Corkin's forum to see the links, here they are:
http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/ (http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/)
https://www.finalemusic.com/notepad/default.aspx (https://www.finalemusic.com/notepad/default.aspx)
I suddenly have a hankering for some spam.... ::)
Ah, the lengths to which the Corkster will go, to try to drum up traffic at his forum!
Quote from: karlhenning on March 27, 2008, 07:55:26 AM
Ah, the lengths to which the Corkster will go, to try to drum up traffic at his forum!
Hey what about my composition? I thought I'd go one better than Mr Cage by a factor of one note, but what a profound and important note it is. More thought provoking still in that one instrument plays whilst the others do nothing. That says much more to me than Cage's effort.
Do you realise the profound humour in my Op1? The pointlessness of the silent performers presence is all the more enhanced by the one performer that plays the single note.
A masterpiece, basically.
Quote from: Keemun on March 27, 2008, 07:53:04 AM
If you prefer not to be directed to Rod Corkin's forum to see the links, here they are:
At least Rod Corkin brought this excellent free software to this forum, of which I am a bona fide member. And you don't even have to register at my place to get it!!
The words 'ungrateful little s**t' come to mind.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 27, 2008, 07:55:26 AM
Ah, the lengths to which the Corkster will go, to try to drum up traffic at his forum!
I think everyone at this site is already aware of my place, and I don't lick boots to gain membership, as you should already be all too aware. I've hardly gained any registered members from GMG,
it is GMG that is gaining from MY SITE on this occasion!!
Now back to my composition...
I, for one, think it is a true masterpiece. I mean, that B note, who could've thought of such a thing? Too bad there's no sound files, I'd be listening all day long...... 0:)
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 27, 2008, 08:43:16 AM
I, for one, think it is a true masterpiece. I mean, that B note, who could've thought of such a thing? Too bad there's no sound files, I'd be listening all day long...... 0:)
Good thinking, I think I can provide a midi of it via the software, not a string quartet admittedly, but you'll get the gist of it. I'll have a go tonight, unless anyone has a fiddle at home and they can record it.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 27, 2008, 08:43:16 AM
I, for one, think it is a true masterpiece.
An understatement if there ever was one. This is
the absolutely ground-breaking work of the first half of the 21st Century. Music was never the same after Monteverdi and Beethoven. Now we have the privilege of being contemporaries with another radical revolutionary.
Hats off, gentlemen! A genius!
Given the colossal effort that was invested in op. 1, when can we expect opus 2?
Quote from: Florestan on March 27, 2008, 08:55:50 AM
Hats off, gentlemen! A genius!
If only I had been wearing my hat when I read this . . . .
Umbrellas up, gentlemen! The sarcasm is dripping!
I'm missing my hat more than ever, then.
Quote from: MN Dave on March 27, 2008, 08:58:13 AM
Umbrellas up, gentlemen! The sarcasm is dripping!
I'll compose Op2 as and when I'm 'struck by the muse', so to speak.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 08:06:13 AM
Do you realise the profound humour in my Op1? The pointlessness of the silent performers presence is all the more enhanced by the one performer that plays the single note.
A masterpiece, basically.
To
B or not to
B, that is the question. ;D (sorry, *someone* had to say it LOL)
Do you realize how profoundly humorous I am? . . .
Quote from: sarabande on March 27, 2008, 09:07:02 AM
To B or not to B, that is the question. ;D (sorry, *someone* had to say it LOL)
That would be a good title for this piece actually.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 08:11:53 AM
At least Rod Corkin brought this excellent free software to this forum, of which I am a bona fide member. And you don't even have to register at my place to get it!!
The words 'ungrateful little s**t' come to mind.
If your true intention was to bring this excellent free software to this forum, you would have posted the direct links to the software in this forum. Instead, you lured GMG members to this thread with a bogus subject heading and posted a link to your forum. You've resorted to calling me names because I pointed out your plan and posted the links in an effort to truly help my fellow GMG members. ::)
Quote from: Keemun on March 27, 2008, 09:20:38 AM
You've resorted to calling me names because I pointed out your plan and posted the links in an effort to truly help my fellow GMG members. ::)
And those tawdry words
would come to the Corkster's mind, snivelling little whinger that he is 0:)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 09:17:05 AM
That would be a good title for this piece actually.
Then your opus 2 could be "Must it
B? It must
B!"
I should stop this. :P ;D 0:)
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 27, 2008, 08:43:16 AM
I, for one, think it is a true masterpiece. I mean, that B note, who could've thought of such a thing? Too bad there's no sound files, I'd be listening all day long...... 0:)
Masterpieces count as of March 27, 2008:JS Bach - An infinite number 100+ at least
R Corkin - 1
GF Handel - 0 :(
:D
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 27, 2008, 09:30:42 AM
Masterpieces count as of March 27, 2008:
JS Bach - An infinite number 100+ at least
R Corkin - 1
GF Handel - 0 :(
:D
:D
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 08:06:13 AM
Hey what about my composition? I thought I'd go one better than Mr Cage by a factor of one note, but what a profound and important note it is. More thought provoking still in that one instrument plays whilst the others do nothing. That says much more to me than Cage's effort.
Do you realise the profound humour in my Op1? The pointlessness of the silent performers presence is all the more enhanced by the one performer that plays the single note.
A masterpiece, basically.
It is so good, you should also transcribe it for full orchestra. :D
Quote from: Florestan on March 27, 2008, 08:55:50 AM
An understatement if there ever was one. This is the absolutely ground-breaking work of the first half of the 21st Century. Music was never the same after Monteverdi and Beethoven. Now we have the privilege of being contemporaries with another radical revolutionary.
Hats off, gentlemen! A genius!
Hats back on, gentlemen!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 08:19:50 AM
I've hardly gained any registered members from GMG.
Can't imagine why that should
B . . . .
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 27, 2008, 08:43:16 AM
I, for one, think it is a true masterpiece. I mean, that B note, who could've thought of such a thing?
Berg, in Wozzeck . . . .
I'm a B-liever. 0:)
Quote from: sarabande on March 27, 2008, 10:11:08 AM
I'm a B-liever. 0:)
A medal for you sarabande, not only for having a Handelian moniker, I'm also a Monkees superfan!
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 27, 2008, 09:47:01 AM
It is so good, you should also transcribe it for full orchestra. :D
So the first violin section alone would play it? Interesting idea, but, as with the orchestral transcriptions of Beethoven quartets, ladies and gentlemen of taste and refinement will
always come back to the original...
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 08:19:50 AM
it is GMG that is gaining from MY SITE on this occasion!!
Now back to my composition...
Right!
Oh good God, i remember "If i were but of noble birth" from talkclassical. And come on Rod, you know better than to not resolve the leading tone. Beethoven would not be proud!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 27, 2008, 07:41:22 AM
My latest work. There's more to this than meets the eye. Any comments or criticism welcome.
You can download the free composing software I used via this link!
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/post5570.html#5570
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/76fa3c4e518776a250221fed9d2d69f55g.jpg)
Whats with you?
Reminds me of a certain Daffy Duck number. Of course, the quotation is from Rigoletto, and not, as Porky erroneously guessed, Cavalleria Rusticana.
Quote from: c#minor on March 27, 2008, 03:37:36 PM
Oh good God, i remember "If i were but of noble birth" from talkclassical.
I've been everywhere, I am everywhere, a dream to some 0:), a nightmare to others. >:D
Quote from: c#minor on March 27, 2008, 03:37:36 PM
And come on Rod, you know better than to not resolve the leading tone. Beethoven would not be proud!
On paper you may be right, but see it performed live and all will make sense.
Quote from: Saul on March 27, 2008, 05:58:32 PM
Whats with you?
This art is not for today, it is for future generations.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 28, 2008, 02:49:28 AM
On paper you may be right, but see it performed live and all will make sense.
Don't even understand your own work, I see! ;D 'On paper' he
isn't right - we don't know the piece is in C major, so how can we know that the B is a leading note? This could be an atonal (or in this case, to speak accurately and technically, monotonous) piece, of course. Personally, however, I hear it in A minor, of course, and this supertonic B is forever resisting resolution downwards, implying eternity like the end of
Das Lied von der Erde
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 28, 2008, 03:33:51 AM
This art is not for today, it is for future generations.
All the more reason to keep it from us, and put it in a time-capsule for the benefit of music lovers 600 years hence.
Quote from: Saul on March 27, 2008, 05:58:32 PM
Whats with you?
Such harsh criticism of a fellow artist ....... :o
Quote from: Sforzando on March 28, 2008, 06:25:07 AM
All the more reason to keep it from us, and put it in a time-capsule for the benefit of music lovers 600 years hence.
Though even this plan betokens a
most peculiar idea of "benefit" . . . .
Quote from: Dm on March 28, 2008, 06:26:54 AM
Such harsh criticism of a fellow artist ....... :o
It's jolly good to rally around and assist the Corkster in his need to rustle up some attention, though, isn't it?
Quote from: lukeottevanger on March 28, 2008, 06:10:58 AM
Don't even understand your own work, I see! ;D 'On paper' he isn't right - we don't know the piece is in C major, so how can we know that the B is a leading note? This could be an atonal (or in this case, to speak accurately and technically, monotonous) piece, of course. Personally, however, I hear it in A minor, of course, and this supertonic B is forever resisting resolution downwards, implying eternity like the end of Das Lied von der Erde
I said he 'may' be right, leaving the opportunity for deep persons such as yourself to search for the 'truth'. But really on paper alone Op1 is meaningless, only on stage is its point made.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 28, 2008, 06:28:28 AM
It's jolly good to rally around and assist the Corkster in his need to rustle up some attention, though, isn't it?
Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black!
Quote from: Dm on March 28, 2008, 06:26:54 AM
Such harsh criticism of a fellow artist ....... :o
I'm with Saul on this one.
The manner in which material returns and is recycled is utterly naïve. It's like extra length has been added to piece just by repeating bars
ad nauseam. And then, something completely different, out of nowhere, which also undergoes absolutely no development or elaboation. I'm terribly sorry, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to lump this piece in the 'utter bollocks' box, along with basically everything by Phillip Glass... :-X ;)
Quote from: Robert Dahm on March 28, 2008, 06:42:03 AM
I'm with Saul on this one.
The manner in which material returns and is recycled is utterly naïve. It's like extra length has been added to piece just by repeating bars ad nauseam. And then, something completely different, out of nowhere, which also undergoes absolutely no development or elaboation. I'm terribly sorry, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to lump this piece in the 'utter bollocks' box, along with basically everything by Phillip Glass... :-X ;)
But even more disturbing in this most literal piece of minimalism, where are the dynamic, phrasing, and tempo markings? Is this B to be played Adagio, Moderato or Presto, staccato and forte or pianissimo and dolce, pizzicato or arco, on the G or D or A string, muted or unmuted, up-bow or down-bow, with a slight crescendo-diminuendo or an even dynamic, with or without vibrato, etc., etc. The possibilities are endless - what an enigmatic score.
Quote from: Sforzando on March 28, 2008, 07:15:35 AM
But even more disturbing in this most literal piece of minimalism, where are the dynamic, phrasing, and tempo markings? Is this B to be played Adagio, Moderato or Presto, staccato and forte or pianissimo and dolce, pizzicato or arco, on the G or D or A string, muted or unmuted, up-bow or down-bow, with a slight crescendo-diminuendo or an even dynamic, with or without vibrato, etc., etc. The possibilities are endless - what an enigmatic score.
I could have easily added more such indications, the software is comprehensive enough I think. But, as you have realised, less is more with a piece like this. But nothing is indeed nothing. If only I was around to help Cage out with his piece, I could have shown him where he was going wrong. Too late now...
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 28, 2008, 07:54:37 AM
I could have easily added more such indications, the software is comprehensive enough I think. But, as you have realised, less is more with a piece like this. But nothing is indeed nothing. If only I was around to help Cage out with his piece, I could have shown him where he was going wrong. Too late now...
Yes.
Quote from: Haffner on March 28, 2008, 09:05:33 AM
Yes.
Musicologists in centuries after will refer to this, specifically, as The Great Tragedy of
Cage's Career.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 28, 2008, 07:54:37 AM
I could have easily added more such indications, the software is comprehensive enough I think. But, as you have realised, less is more with a piece like this.
I would say rather, less is less . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on March 28, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
Musicologists in centuries after will refer to this, specifically, as The Great Tragedy of Cage's Career.
(chokes on coffee, laughing)
Quote from: karlhenning on March 28, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
Musicologists in centuries after will refer to this, specifically, as The Great Tragedy of Cage's Career.
This is a truly a Blue Riband day Mr Henning, the day me and you are of the same mind.
Now that I've studied it for a while and feel I have a deeper understanding of the piece, my only suggestion would be to eliminate the anacrusis.
When it comes to one-note pieces, I still prefer Ligeti's fine effort for piano from 1961:
György Ligeti - Three Bagatelles (http://rs99.rapidshare.com/files/91429158/Ligeti_-_Trois_Bagatelles.pdf)
Quote from: Szykniej on March 29, 2008, 04:00:24 AM
Now that I've studied it for a while and feel I have a deeper understanding of the piece, my only suggestion would be to eliminate the anacrusis.
See every negative thought that comes to mind as a positive.
Quote from: Symphonien on March 29, 2008, 06:01:49 PM
When it comes to one-note pieces, I still prefer Ligeti's fine effort for piano from 1961:
György Ligeti - Three Bagatelles (http://rs99.rapidshare.com/files/91429158/Ligeti_-_Trois_Bagatelles.pdf)
Surely not? Mine is a more ambitious and interesting piece, if I do say so myself.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 30, 2008, 02:06:26 AM
Surely not? Mine is a more ambitious and interesting piece, if I do say so myself.
Ah, but you see Ligeti realised an idea of this magnitude required at least three movements to express fully and, anticipating the inevitable great response to such a piece from the audience, even added an optional encore. And I do feel that C Sharp below middle C says so much more than the B above it does. Played on a piano, the sound will continue to resonate after it has been struck sounding a more complex and interesting sound than that of a solo violin's B for only one quaver beat. The silence of the other three instruments in your piece is intensified far greatly through the three other movements in Ligeti's piece which are of differing duration and have been marked with greater expressive details.
How do we know Rod didn't get the idea from a Scelsi String Quartet...... (a version where one note is only played once?)....
If the free composing software was good, wouldn't it have changed the whole rests in the first measure of the 2nd violin, viola, and cello parts to quarter rests?
Quote from: Szykniej on March 30, 2008, 11:50:54 AM
If the free composing software was good, wouldn't it have changed the whole rests in the first measure of the 2nd violin, viola, and cello parts to quarter rests?
See every negative thought that comes to mind as a positive.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 30, 2008, 05:29:47 AM
How do we know Rod didn't get the idea from a Scelsi String Quartet...... (a version where one note is only played once?)....
Search for proof of fraud and deception all you like, I sleep soundly at night. 0:)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 30, 2008, 01:05:46 PM
See every negative thought that comes to mind as a positive.
luckily, mathematicians don't apply this rule to numbers.
*yawn*
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 31, 2008, 04:49:41 AM
luckily, mathematicians don't apply this rule to numbers.
Well there are those who seem confuse mathematics with art, fortunately I am not one of them.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 31, 2008, 06:59:24 AM
*yawn*
I think a huge yawn would be even more well-placed.
b
Quote from: premont on March 31, 2008, 08:38:29 AM
I think a huge yawn would be even more well-placed.
Just add a double forte to the B.
Quote from: premont on March 31, 2008, 08:38:29 AM
I think a huge yawn would be even more well-placed.
Don't encourage the spoilsport, Henning refers to himself as a 'composer' and he's just jealous. ::)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 31, 2008, 11:34:41 AM
Don't encourage the spoilsport, Henning refers to himself as a 'composer' and he's just jealous. ::)
To be fair: I don´t think so.
Quote from: premont on March 31, 2008, 12:41:20 PM
To be fair: I don´t think so.
I
DO think so, some people here don't like it when somebody else is getting all the attention. What's your problem
Corporal? Normally I stay away form topics I find uninteresting or tedious, at GMG this notion doesn't seem to have sunk in, at least amongst the rather more unsavory element of its membership. ::)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on March 31, 2008, 02:11:12 PM
I DO think so, some people here don't like it when somebody else is getting all the attention. What's your problem Corporal? Normally I stay away form topics I find uninteresting or tedious, at GMG this notion doesn't seem to have sunk in, at least amongst the rather more unsavory element of its membership. ::)
Rod given the popularity of your illustrious composition I am seriously considering writing/composing a variation on your string quartet!
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 31, 2008, 03:04:34 PM
Rod given the popularity of your illustrious composition I am seriously considering writing/composing a variation on your string quartet!
marvin
...and here it is
b to be played one octave down from yours!
marvin
I have an idea for op.2:
b c
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 31, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
I have an idea for op.2:
b c
Hey, let's be late-period Viennese:
b# C
laughing like a loon again, somebody please correct me! I'm been spending to much time on the "Religion Thread". Getting so cuckoo my cuckoo is cuckoo.
YEAH-hoo-HOeeeeeeEEEEE!
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 31, 2008, 03:11:54 PM
...and here it is b to be played one octave down from yours!
marvin
Better yet, take it three octaves down, have the cello tune its C string scordatura, and play it as a Bartok pizz.
sforzando, while simultaneously having violin 1 play it pianissimo as a harmonic and violin 2 play it col legno in the original written register, while viola recites the opening of Hamlet's soliloquy.
Quote from: Sforzando on March 31, 2008, 04:45:21 PM
Better yet, take it three octaves down, have the cello tune its C string scordatura, and play it as a Bartok pizz. sforzando, while simultaneously having violin 1 play it pianissimo as a harmonic and violin 2 play it col legno in the original written register, while viola recites the opening of Hamlet's soliloquy.
To B or not to B?
I really think you've got something there: ;D
(http://download308.mediafire.com/s9fiplh1nyyg/xzc2gyd0zau/To+B+or+not+to+B.bmp)
EDIT: Don't think it comes out too well in this forum. Here's (http://download308.mediafire.com/s9fiplh1nyyg/xzc2gyd0zau/To+B+or+not+to+B.bmp) a link to a better quality version if you're interested.
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 31, 2008, 03:04:34 PM
Rod given the popularity of your illustrious composition I am seriously considering writing/composing a variation on your string quartet!
marvin
What a great idea. I'm working on my Op2, or at least as best I can until I fully get to grips with the software.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 01, 2008, 01:01:53 AM
What a great idea. I'm working on my Op2, or at least as best I can until I fully get to grips with the software.
See every negative thought that comes to mind as a positive.
Quote from: Szykniej on April 01, 2008, 02:11:24 AM
See every negative thought that comes to mind as a positive.
Bravo!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 01, 2008, 01:01:53 AM
What a great idea. I'm working on my Op2, or at least as best I can until I fully get to grips with the software.
Hopefully that task will keep you challenged for a good while.
Quote from: Dm on March 27, 2008, 08:56:16 AM
Given the colossal effort that was invested in op. 1, when can we expect opus 2?
Well 2 notes obviously!
Quote from: Mozart on April 02, 2008, 10:23:45 PM
Well 2 notes obviously!
Hey I'm workin' on it, workin' on it night and day. O how I suffer for my art...
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 03, 2008, 12:43:51 AM
Hey I'm workin' on it, workin' on it night and day. O how I suffer for my art...
Not as much as we do . . . .
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 03, 2008, 12:43:51 AM
Hey I'm workin' on it, workin' on it night and day. O how I suffer for my art...
If it takes that long for two notes......
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on April 03, 2008, 05:39:25 AM
If it takes that long for two notes......
I can tell, you guys can't wait for it really. Can't wait to rip it and me apart, you wolves you!!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 03, 2008, 07:34:28 AM
I can tell, you guys can't wait for it really. Can't wait to rip it and me apart, you wolves you!!
That's because we know you can handel it.
Rod sticks to the string quartet, but I would like to arrange his op.1 for symphony orchester.
A great symphony orchester.
The leader plays one note:
a quaver g.
the rest is silence
(and of course applause which will not take an end).
Rod, I know which two notes you can use in op 2! 8)
B flat and E flat. German nomenclature.
Take your time....
Quote from: premont on April 03, 2008, 03:50:37 PM
the rest is silence
We've already used Hamlet in another transcription!
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 03, 2008, 04:31:20 PM
Rod, I know which two notes you can use in op 2! 8)
B flat and E flat. German nomenclature.
Take your time....
Well it would be too obvious that I simply use 2 notes for Op2. Op2 will be completely different, but as equally inventive as my first triumph.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 04, 2008, 03:56:50 AM
Well it would be too obvious that I simply use 2 notes for Op2. Op2 will be completely different, but as equally inventive as my first triumph.
Keep at it, Rod. Bb and Eb.
but of course op.2 will only be able to be heard here:
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org
and you have to register first.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on April 04, 2008, 01:37:59 PM
but of course op.2 will only be able to be heard here:
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org
and you have to register first.
Well thanks for promoting my site but the member's compositions topic is in the general forum and you do not need to register to read the posts in that section. I am not that unscrupulous G. 0:)
I had to think long and hard about it but with my Op2 I feel I have truly gone one better than my last effort, if such a thing were possible.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 07, 2008, 12:51:13 AM
Well thanks for promoting my site but the member's compositions topic is in the general forum and you do not need to register to read the posts in that section. I am not that unscrupulous G. 0:)
I had to think long and hard about it but with my Op2 I feel I have truly gone one better than my last effort, if such a thing were possible.
Cool, we can't wait for op.2. Really. 0:)
This thread belongs to the litter board
Quote from: premont on April 08, 2008, 08:21:50 PM
This thread belongs to the litter board
What has become of you these days premont? You have developed a bitter streak it seems?? I know GMG can do that to a person, I recall you being much more pleasant at CMM.
It's called developing a capacity for critical discrimination. ;D
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 09, 2008, 06:32:05 AM
It's called developing a capacity for critical discrimination. ;D
What, posting snippets of major works to make some sort of "objective" judgment isn't critical discrimination?
Woe! My mind is rent asunder most expertly, sir.
It's possible, of course, that's Rod's Quartet is constructed on a similar principle. I believe I recognise this particular B from Beethoven's Rasumovsky no 2, and in thus isolating it and presenting it as a 'work' in its own right, Rod is highlighting the profound quality of Beethoven's thought. Even his B's are better than Bach's.
Quote from: PSmith08 on April 09, 2008, 07:06:13 AM
What, posting snippets of major works to make some sort of "objective" judgment isn't critical discrimination?
Woe! My mind is rent asunder most expertly, sir.
Well the judgment of tracks at CMM is predominantly one of reviews of new recordings or purchases and also general musical interpretation, certainly in the case of Beethoven's symphonies for example - music which everyone had heard. In this respect presenting just one movement from a particular performance can say much more than an essay, far more efficiently too. This way I don't have to take someone else's word for it, I can judge for myself. If I want to read an essay I can go to a book shop, if I want to hear music I want to hear music. I find it perverse, but not surprising, that the many members of forums such as this one are actually anti-music. Not surprising because with my way of doing things it is so easy to expose those who are good at chit chat but have no musical taste or judgment.
Believe me if is far harder to get people to write just a few lines of personal critical assessment of one track than it is for them to present an essay on things that have already been written a million times on web. If you think that's not the case I look forward to reading some of your reviews at my site.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 08:36:17 AM
Well the judgment of tracks at CMM is predominantly one of reviews of new recordings or purchases and also general musical interpretation, certainly in the case of Beethoven's symphonies for example - music which everyone had heard. In this respect presenting just one movement from a particular performance can say much more than an essay, far more efficiently too. This way I don't have to take someone else's word for it, I can judge for myself. If I want to read an essay I can go to a book shop, if I want to hear music I want to hear music. I find it perverse, but not surprising, that the many members of forums such as this one are actually anti-music. Not surprising because with my way of doing things it is so easy to expose those who are good at chit chat but have no musical taste or judgment.
You're seeing what you want to see, Rod, if you think this forum has no audio-file based discussion of music - you've missed quite a few threads (e.g. M's Mystery Orchestra ones, and similar), in which the most perceptive listening possible is frequently illustrated by many, many GMGers. But this is not the only way to discuss music, and IMO is far from the best, for a variety of reasons.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 08:36:17 AMBelieve me if is far harder to get people to write just a few lines of personal critical assessment of one track than it is for them to present an essay on things that have already been written a million times on web. If you think that's not the case I look forward to reading some of your reviews at my site.
Again, it's my experience that people are more than happy to comment on music posted on this site - on threads presenting clips of commercial recordings, like those mentioned above, and also on the home-grown composers' threads. I've certainly got no complaint about the number of people who've listened to and commented on my own music.
It seems to be just
your clips that don't really entice people into listening. I wonder why that could be..... ??? ;)
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 09, 2008, 08:57:52 AM
It seems to be just your clips that don't really entice people into listening. I wonder why that could be..... ??? ;)
Centuwion, why do they titter so?
Quote from: karlhenning on April 09, 2008, 10:17:51 AM
Centuwion, why do they titter so?
Because he wanks higher than any in Wome.
What a corkin' film! But I never realised how much...
Quote
Pontius Pilate
But what about Woderick, then?
Jewish Crowd
Yeah! Release Woderick! Release Woderick! [Laughter]
Pontius Pilate
Centurion, why do they...titter so?
Centurion
Just some, ehm...Jewish joke, sir.
Pontius Pilate
Are they...wagging me?
Centurion
Oh, no, sir!
Pontius Pilate
Very well, I shall release Woderick!
Centurion
Sir, we don't have a Woderick either.
Pontius Pilate
No Woger, no Woderick?
Centurion
Sorry, sir.
Pontius Pilate
Who is this Wod...who is this Woderick to whom you refer?
Man
He is a Wobber!
Man II
And a Wapist!
Woman
And a pickpocket!
Jewish Crowd
No, no!
Pontius Pilate
He sounds a notorious criminal.
Centurion
We haven't got him, sir.
Pontius Pilate
Do we have anyone in our prisons at all?
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 09, 2008, 08:57:52 AM
You're seeing what you want to see, Rod, if you think this forum has no audio-file based discussion of music - you've missed quite a few threads (e.g. M's Mystery Orchestra ones, and similar), in which the most perceptive listening possible is frequently illustrated by many, many GMGers. But this is not the only way to discuss music, and IMO is far from the best, for a variety of reasons.
Again, it's my experience that people are more than happy to comment on music posted on this site - on threads presenting clips of commercial recordings, like those mentioned above, and also on the home-grown composers' threads. I've certainly got no complaint about the number of people who've listened to and commented on my own music.
It seems to be just your clips that don't really entice people into listening. I wonder why that could be..... ??? ;)
What are you talking about,
my clips? The other members have presented plenty of their own too, you dipstick! I suggest you remain silent until you know what
you are talking about. I've been posting tracks at CM sites for years and I've had no complaints about the quality of the material I present. Au contraire my son. ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on April 09, 2008, 10:17:51 AM
Centuwion, why do they titter so?
The only
tit here is you Henning. ;D
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 11:16:33 AM
What are you talking about, my clips? The other members have presented plenty of their own too, you dipstick! I suggest you remain silent until you know what you are talking about. I've been posting tracks at CM sites for years and I've had no complaints about the quality of the material I present. Au contraire my son. ;D
I'm talking about the interminable Handel clips you posted here in your Handel vs Bach thread, Wod. They and the way in which you presented that whole pathetic farago told me all I needed to know about you and any board you might 'host'.
...and btw, I don't think anyone here has complained about the quality of the clips you present either. I'm sure they were perfectly lovely - after all, Handel's a pretty fine composer. It's the attitude of the person posting them which leaves the unpleasant aftertaste.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 11:20:46 AM
The only tit here is you Henning. ;D
I get it, it's a pun.
Still and all, I'm quite sure that calling people "dipsticks" is a transgression of, at the very least, common courtesy. Let's not carry that line any further, I don't have my mod periwig with me, and it chafes to wear my mod hat without it. $:)
8)
Luke was called a dipstick and Karl was called a retard. What is the world coming to? ???
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on April 09, 2008, 12:43:53 PM
Luke was called a dipstick and Karl was called a retard. What is the world coming to? ???
I simply don't know, Greg. It seems you and I are the only civilized ones left, and frankly, I'm not too sure about you... ;D
8)
Here's a picture of myself:
(http://www.johnlehr.com/images/caveman5.jpg)
I'm refined enough, aren't I?
This is precisely how I pictured you! Amazing! Who do you get to pick your nits for you? :D
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 09, 2008, 01:35:27 PM
This is precisely how I pictured you! Amazing! Who do you get to pick your nits for you? :D
8)
i had to look that one up.....
nits=lice
ahhhhhh ;D
um, i usually let Ubloobideega pick them. He's an expert nitpicker.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on April 09, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
i had to look that one up.....
nits=lice
ahhhhhh ;D
um, i usually let Ubloobideega pick them. He's an expert nitpicker.
Ah yes, a logical choice, although clearly not the Forum's only nitpicker.
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Schubert - Die schöne Müllerin - Jan Kobow / Kristian Bezuidenhout - Wohin?
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 08:36:17 AM
I find it perverse, but not surprising, that the many members of forums such as this one are actually anti-music.
Considering that you have shown absolutely no interest in any but two composers, you're hardly one to talk.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 09, 2008, 04:40:10 PM
Ah yes, a logical choice, although clearly not the Forum's only nitpicker.
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Schubert - Die schöne Müllerin - Jan Kobow / Kristian Bezuidenhout - Wohin?
I was going to list some names, but I thought........ nah, then I'd be a nitpicker myself.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 09, 2008, 04:54:23 PM
Considering that you have shown absolutely no interest in any but two composers, you're hardly one to talk.
sFz,
May I just say that since I have known the lovely and talented Mr. C for approximately 7 years on 4 or 5 different fora, despite the logic and clarity you display, and might one say, the patience, you are merely wasting valuable (digital) breath in this instance. I made that same riposte to him, nearly word for word, in 2001. The word "water" and the phrase "off a duck's back" leap to mind whenever I see it repeated like this... :D
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Schubert - Die schöne Müllerin - Jan Kobow / Kristian Bezuidenhout - Der Jäger
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 09, 2008, 05:18:49 PM
sFz,
May I just say that since I have known the lovely and talented Mr. C for approximately 7 years on 4 or 5 different fora, despite the logic and clarity you display, and might one say, the patience, you are merely wasting valuable (digital) breath in this instance. I made that same riposte to him, nearly word for word, in 2001. The word "water" and the phrase "off a duck's back" leap to mind whenever I see it repeated like this... :D
Many thanks for the kind thoughts, Mr. Blanston, but please bear in mind that I was addressing not the lovely and talented Mr. C, but Rod Corkin.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 09, 2008, 06:08:20 PM
Many thanks for the kind thoughts, Mr. Blanston, but please bear in mind that I was addressing not the lovely and talented Mr. C, but Rod Corkin.
Ah yes, a subtle yet crucial difference. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Schubert - Schwanengesang - Jan Kobow / Kristian Bezuidenhout - Frülingssehnsucht
Quote from: Sforzando on April 09, 2008, 04:54:23 PM
Considering that you have shown absolutely no interest in any but two composers, you're hardly one to talk.
At my site I have commented on composers I'm sure you haven't even heard of. I've even said some positive things about them too! But I really haven't time to discuss all and sundry here, I leave that to you guys. As long as I can tell a good tune from a crap one that is all I or indeed any person needs. Alas few people have this gift it seems.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 09, 2008, 12:36:41 PM
I get it, it's a pun.
Still and all, I'm quite sure that calling people "dipsticks" is a transgression of, at the very least, common courtesy. Let's not carry that line any further, I don't have my mod periwig with me, and it chafes to wear my mod hat without it. $:)
8)
Gurn I doubt you are even aware of what 'dipstick' means, certainly when it comes from an Englishman. It relates to a TV comedy show here. Maybe if you'd popped by my site, like you used to, you'd become more culturally aware. ;D
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 09, 2008, 05:18:49 PM
sFz,
May I just say that since I have known the lovely and talented Mr. C for approximately 7 years on 4 or 5 different fora, despite the logic and clarity you display, and might one say, the patience, you are merely wasting valuable (digital) breath in this instance. I made that same riposte to him, nearly word for word, in 2001. The word "water" and the phrase "off a duck's back" leap to mind whenever I see it repeated like this... :D
Well GMG is well known for it's nastiness and endless sarcasm Gurn, believe me I wouldn't tolerate for one second the things you let the local sad boys here get away with here. As I have said before I regard this as virtually an unmoderated site. But as you say the nastiness is water of a duck's back to me. The sarcasm here is my daily bread.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 02:22:37 AM
Well GMG is well known for it's nastiness and endless sarcasm Gurn, believe me I wouldn't tolerate for one second the things you let the local sad boys here get away with here. As I have said before I regard this as virtually an unmoderated site.
Of course. And that is why
you can bluster here to your heart's content with impunity.
That the Corkster has the nerve to complain about nastiness, is one of the funniest things I've read on GMG in a long, long time.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 02:10:10 AM
At my site I have commented on composers I'm sure you haven't even heard of. I've even said some positive things about them too!
So you reserve your praise for the insignificant?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 03:58:22 AM
So you reserve your praise for the insignificant?
Well insignificant in the eye's of the musical establishment maybe, and their's have not always been the sharpest of eyes. But the bigger the reputation the harsher must we judge them critically wouldn't you say? That's the only way it should be. So if I have appeared in the past overly critical you know the reason why.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 10, 2008, 03:32:02 AM
That the Corkster has the nerve to complain about nastiness, is one of the funniest things I've read on GMG in a long, long time.
Don't play the innocent Henning, you sarcastic intrusions are usually the prelude that signals the other boot boys to join in soon after. If I fight fire with fire it's never me who casts the first stone here, that's for sure.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 09, 2008, 04:54:23 PM
Considering that you have shown absolutely no interest in any but two composers, you're hardly one to talk.
Actually in addition to Beethoven and Handel I have discussed (or have tried to at least ::)) Bach, Schubert and Mozart here in the past, but it appeared the mob didn't always like what I had to say about these other three guys. But I think that's a healthy bunch all the same.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 02:10:10 AM
At my site I have commented on composers I'm sure you haven't even heard of. I've even said some positive things about them too! But I really haven't time to discuss all and sundry here, I leave that to you guys. As long as I can tell a good tune from a crap one that is all I or indeed any person needs. Alas few people have this gift it seems.
I'd sooner waste my time on this site than yours. Most people who come to places like this are "givers" rather than "takers" in my experience, and the takers don't generally last long. Unless one is a complete novice I don't believe any music Board is useful from the learning perspective. I've learned far more about music from various other sources, and I never seek or take Board recommendations about the "best" recordings, as they're all generally biased or partial. As far as I'm concerned, Boards are mainly useful to participate in/observe gossip about what's going in the music scene, and to poke fun at idiots who take their own assumed importance all too seriously.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 02:15:31 AM
Gurn I doubt you are even aware of what 'dipstick' means, certainly when it comes from an Englishman. It relates to a TV comedy show here. Maybe if you'd popped by my site, like you used to, you'd become more culturally aware. ;D
Well, here in Texas where we don't pander to euphemism that much, we just say f***stick. But I'll go along... :)
8)
Quote from: Topaz on April 10, 2008, 04:29:35 AM
As far as I'm concerned, Boards are mainly useful to participate in/observe gossip about what's going in the music scene, and to poke fun at idiots who take their own assumed importance all too seriously.
So even Mr. Corkin's posts have value?
Quote from: DavidRoss on April 10, 2008, 04:55:40 AM
So even Mr. Corkin's posts have value?
As comic relief.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 04:16:58 AM
Don't play the innocent Henning, you sarcastic intrusions are usually the prelude that signals the other boot boys to join in soon after. If I fight fire with fire it's never me who casts the first stone here, that's for sure.
But you must love it, as you keep coming back for more.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
But you must love it, as you keep coming back for more.
Man, I was wondering why this thread kept going on and on...
Quote from: MN Dave on April 10, 2008, 05:08:36 AM
Man, I was wondering why this thread kept going on and on...
We're all waiting on tenterhooks for the Second Quartet.
Quote from: Topaz on April 10, 2008, 04:29:35 AM
I'd sooner waste my time on this site than yours. Most people who come to places like this are "givers" rather than "takers" in my experience, and the takers don't generally last long. Unless one is a complete novice I don't believe any music Board is useful from the learning perspective. I've learned far more about music from various other sources, and I never seek or take Board recommendations about the "best" recordings, as they're all generally biased or partial. As far as I'm concerned, Boards are mainly useful to participate in/observe gossip about what's going in the music scene, and to poke fun at idiots who take their own assumed importance all too seriously.
I have presented lots of tracks here before but the hoods weren't interested, so I created my own site and have given a hell of a lot more, with nothing in it for me other than the desire to discuss the music concerned. So don't make out I'm someone on the take. But I agree what you say about message boards and learning, which is why I created a site concentrating primarily on recordings and discussion of interpretations, with the tracks as 'illustrations'. The stuff you read in books is best read from a book, but you can't judge a performance from words alone.
If you want to read gossip and poke fun at idiots you can read a tabloid. Those who are not musicians will not really be interested in the music 'scene'. I'm afraid that only leaves the music, much as that pains the hoods here. Gossip away here if you must though, I'll be doing that in the bar tonight watching the match. Now that's the place for gossip!
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 05:12:31 AM
We're all waiting on tenterhooks for the Second Quartet.
Well the topic was diverted by a snide, unprovoked remark about my site, but you are right, time to get back on topic, my second quartet!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 05:23:46 AM
I have presented lots of tracks here before but the hoods weren't interested, so I created my own site and have given a hell of a lot more, with nothing in it for me other than the desire to discuss the music concerned.
But Rod - and I haven't been brave enough to look at your forum yet, so I'm only going on your posts here - when on your Bach/Handel thread I and others repeatedly tried to 'discuss the music' with you, you always proved unwilling to actually do so. Usually you seemed to prefer to present another track, which, whatever its merits may or may not be, is not actually discussing music. I'm not being unpleasant when I say that I'm seriously racking my brains to think of anything you've said that is of musical substance. Whereas Karl, Sforzando, Gurn (to mention only recent posters on this thread) have frequently proved themselves capable of doing so.
This and the illiteracy of your 'Quartet' - I know, a 'joke', but a peculiarly unfunny one because its lack of care for proper notation and ugly presentation make it appear less a clever critique than an angry little man's fumbling splutter - leave me to conclude that you don't really have anything to say about music. About conspiracy theories, yes; about facts and dates of Beethoven biography, yes - but music itself? No, most music seems to leave you belligerent, or bitter, or both.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 05:12:31 AM
We're all waiting on tenterhooks for the Second Quartet.
I'm not.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 10, 2008, 06:12:50 AM
I'm not.
Don't worry, whether you are or not, I'm sure we'll have to endure it.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 06:14:48 AM
Don't worry, whether you are or not, I'm sure we'll have to endure it.
No, we don't. A troll lives only as long as someone feeds it.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 10, 2008, 06:10:12 AM
I'm not being unpleasant when I say that I'm seriously racking my brains to think of anything you've said that is of musical substance... you don't really have anything to say about music.
But he can tell a good tune from a crap one, and that is all he or indeed any person needs. Alas few people have this gift it seems.
Quote from: Florestan on April 10, 2008, 06:17:25 AM
No, we don't. A troll lives only as long as someone feeds it.
Yes, of course. But in this case it is amusing to observe the troll feeding.
Quote from: Florestan on April 10, 2008, 06:17:25 AM
No, we don't. A troll lives only as long as someone feeds it.
0:)
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 06:20:09 AM
Yes, of course. But in this case it is amusing to observe the troll feeding.
Up to a point, yes. After that it becomes as boring as it gets.
Quote from: Florestan on April 10, 2008, 06:28:26 AM
Up to a point, yes. After that it becomes as boring as it gets.
You are absolutely correct, which is why I was waiting to see how long I could keep you wolves occupied before you would realise that my hallowed Op2 was not forthcoming. ;D
8 pages and 151 replies is not bad! ;D ;D
Suckers! ;D
On the contrary, we composed your op 2 for you pages ago - the two notes B flat and E flat, if you will recall - thus making any further composition on your part unnecessary (and not a word of thanks! :o )
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 10, 2008, 06:35:58 AM
On the contrary, we composed your op 2 for you pages ago - the two notes B flat and E flat, if you will recall - thus making any further composition on your part unnecessary (and not a word of thanks! :o )
Stop hogging the glory, one could say I beat Cage at his own game once more, producing a work with no name, no opus, no score (not even a blank one), nothing! Makes Cage's 'piece' look like a trial of effort in comparison.
Heck, my genius strikes again!
Ha! That piece has been composed infinite times already, I'm afraid. I thought you of all people would be aware of Beethoven's and Handel's . Though, I'm sorry to say, Bach's is just that little bit better than the latter.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 10, 2008, 06:44:56 AM
Ha! That piece has been composed infinite times already, I'm afraid. I thought you of all people would be aware of Beethoven's and Handel's . Though, I'm sorry to say, Bach's is just that little bit better than the latter.
I should not be surprised you critisise my methods yet have not even looked at my site by your own admission. But only the index and general forum is accessible to guests, all the (in my opinion) more interesting forums, you have to register to get into. But it is laughable that you make out I was avoiding discussion at my Bach/Handel topic whilst making out the likes of Henning were the bastion of intelligent discourse. The fact was that it was impossible to hold a discussion in the thread because Henning and the other children were filling it with dozens of one-line wisecracks. So any more interesting posts were separated by a dozen pieces of crap from the boot boys. I presume the topic is still to be found here as proof of what I'm saying. So please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting I was avoiding anything. We all know what goes on here, don't waste anymore of your time trying to state otherwise.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 07:00:29 AM
I should not be surprised you critisise my methods yet have not even looked at my site by your own admission. But only the index and general forum is accessible to guests, all the (in my opinion) more interesting forums, you have to register to get into.
Is that so? What a useful way of swelling member numbers! 'All the good stuff's in here, but you have to join before you can see it!'
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 10, 2008, 07:00:29 AM
But it is laughable that you make out I was avoiding discussion at my Bach/Handel topic whilst making out the likes of Henning were the bastion of intelligent discourse. The fact was that it was impossible to hold a discussion in the thread because the likes of Henning and the other children were filling it with dozens of one-line wisecracks. So any more interesting posts were separated by a dozen pieces of crap from the boot boys. So please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting I was avoiding anything. We all know what goes on here, don't waste anymore of your time trying to state otherwise.
All I can say, Rod, is that I made number of attempts to engage with you on musical territory, and you steadfastly held off from doing so or glided over what I had said because it didn't fit with your conspiracy theories. In the end, that becomes tiring, and one-liners are all that is left - you have only yourself to blame. And btw, it doesn't matter how many other posts of other sorts were also on the thread - to suggest that they made a musical response from you impossible is disingenuous. The quote button isn't hard to use properly to remind a person of the points being replied to (though you seem not to have done so just now ;D )
Karl's entitled to post in whatever way he wishes - all I'll say is that he is equally capable of great musical insight and.....oh yeah, actually
creating very fine music himself. So I take what he has to say seriously.
If you don't like GMG and its members why do you keep posting here? Nobody forced you to register nor to stay.
Quote from: Florestan on April 10, 2008, 07:11:57 AM
If you don't like GMG and its members why do you keep posting here? Nobody forced you to register nor to stay.
Feeding the troll, Mr. Florestan? :D
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 07:16:36 AM
Feeding the troll, Mr. Florestan? :D
Yes, with a common-sense cake. :D
Quote from: Florestan on April 10, 2008, 07:22:52 AM
Yes, with a common-sense cake. :D
But he refuses to eat that.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 10, 2008, 10:06:14 AM
But he refuses to eat that.
If he refuses it, then he'll have no other from me.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 09, 2008, 08:36:17 AM
Well the judgment of tracks at CMM is predominantly one of reviews of new recordings or purchases and also general musical interpretation, certainly in the case of Beethoven's symphonies for example - music which everyone had heard. In this respect presenting just one movement from a particular performance can say much more than an essay, far more efficiently too. This way I don't have to take someone else's word for it, I can judge for myself. If I want to read an essay I can go to a book shop, if I want to hear music I want to hear music. I find it perverse, but not surprising, that the many members of forums such as this one are actually anti-music. Not surprising because with my way of doing things it is so easy to expose those who are good at chit chat but have no musical taste or judgment.
If you really wanted to hear music, then you wouldn't waste your time on the Mighty Interweb. You would, however, listen to music. Since it's all about "personal critical assessment," there is no necessary reason to share opinions. I think, by attempting to make a case for your approach, you've sentenced yourself to the same indictment you loftily passed on this site: chit and chat, signifying nothing, which is all the simultaneous exchange of prejudged opinions can be.
QuoteBelieve me if is far harder to get people to write just a few lines of personal critical assessment of one track than it is for them to present an essay on things that have already been written a million times on web. If you think that's not the case I look forward to reading some of your reviews at my site.
Being able to judge a "tune" does not an interesting critic make. If so, then more six-year-olds would be employed as professional critics, since they are as adept at judging a tune as the next person. They are also better at expressing their "personal critical assessment" with astonishing clarity and an almost-Webernian economy of form. By the standard presented, a six-year-old is the best critic on the market. Someone notify the
Times.
And with that, here endeth my contribution to the semi-annual
Rod spielt auf thread.
Quote from: PSmith08 on April 09, 2008, 07:06:13 AM
Woe! My mind is rent asunder most expertly, sir.
Well, we will hope in its imminent restoration!
Quote from: PSmith08 on April 10, 2008, 11:15:35 PM
Being able to judge a "tune" does not an interesting critic make. If so, then more six-year-olds would be employed as professional critics, since they are as adept at judging a tune as the next person. They are also better at expressing their "personal critical assessment" with astonishing clarity and an almost-Webernian economy of form. By the standard presented, a six-year-old is the best critic on the market. Someone notify the Times.
And with that, here endeth my contribution to the semi-annual Rod spielt auf thread.
If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?
But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 11, 2008, 05:33:21 AM
If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?
But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.
You know, there are still people with reservations about HIP. Also, your rhetoric on this point seems a trifle unhinged.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 11, 2008, 05:33:21 AM
If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?
But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.
Get off your throne. There were plenty of folks who thought well of HIP Beethoven 15 years ago. You were neither right nor wrong - you just had a preference.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 11, 2008, 05:33:21 AM
If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?
But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.
There's a lot more to music than "good tunes." If "good tunes" were all that mattered, no one would listen to Beethoven. And there's a lot more to interpretation than playing music on period instruments. And since I am reading this, I am convinced you will never learn either.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 08:12:55 AM
If "good tunes" were all that mattered, no one would listen to Beethoven.
Huh? Beethoven kicks ass in the tunes department IMO.
Quote from: MN Dave on April 11, 2008, 08:15:23 AM
Huh? Beethoven kicks ass in the tunes department IMO.
Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 08:18:03 AM
Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?
No, sir, I would not. But that is only one movement. :)
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 08:18:03 AM
Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?
I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:24:21 AM
I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.
I meant "yes." I thought "measure," when he said "movement." Hell, yes, I think the first movement is melodic.
Apt adjustment, Dave!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:24:21 AM
I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.
But not the first subject, as you imply by omission. And that's because Beethoven is not primarily a creator of great melodies, as one might say of Dvorak or Verdi or Tchaikovsky. Beethoven's thinking instead is usually motivic; as a rule he shapes his melodic lines much more with an eye towards their implications for development - not so much as corking good isolable tunes, à la "La donna è mobile." Just think of the opening four bars of the Pastoral Symphony. Whether one chooses to hum along or not, they do not present a tune per se. But some 4-5 motifs can be derived from those opening bars that are developed in all kinds of ways during the course of the movement. Surely I'm not saying anything particularly original here.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 09:29:51 AM
But not the first subject, as you imply by omission.
Well, but the geeky fact is, I sing along with that, too. The fact that it is split up between different instruments doesn't matter; the ear connects it as a unified line: g g g e-flat / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / e-flat e-flat e-flat c / / g g g d / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / f f f d . . ..
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 09:35:41 AM
Well, but the geeky fact is, I sing along with that, too. The fact that it is split up between different instruments doesn't matter; the ear connects it as a unified line: g g g e-flat / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / e-flat e-flat e-flat c / / g g g d / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / f f f d . . ..
Still, you're not rebutting my main point above.
I can't get in depth like the big boys here, but isn't a melody just a string of notes? If I can hum it, it's a melody, right? And if I think it's catchy, then it's a good melody.
As to LvB melody, what about the Moonlight sonata?
Quote from: MN Dave on April 11, 2008, 09:49:51 AM
I can't get in depth like the big boys here, but isn't a melody just a string of notes? If I can hum it, it's a melody, right? And if I think it's catchy, then it's a good melody.
As to LvB melody, what about the Moonlight sonata?
Fur Elise.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:24:21 AM
I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.
That's what Schumann said .......... before he was locked up ..........
Quote from: MN Dave on April 11, 2008, 09:49:51 AM
I can't get in depth like the big boys here, but isn't a melody just a string of notes? If I can hum it, it's a melody, right? And if I think it's catchy, then it's a good melody.
could be....... though with something like Webern, it'd be hard to define where it begins and ends, and which instruments play it......
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 12:39:42 PM
That's what Schumann said .......... before he was locked up ..........
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 12:39:42 PM
That's what Schumann said .......... before he was locked up ..........
All right: who took the key, now?
I find that Beethoven's most powerful melodies aren't very hummable. Like the slow movement of the second Rasumovsky, or the cavatina from op. 130.
Some of you guys are doing an excellent job of missing my point completely. Of course there are melodies in Beethoven, of course one can find the occasional small lyric piece, of course one can hum or sing along. But my point is that characteristically Beethoven does not proceed by writing long, self-contained lyric melodies. Instead he constructs his lines with an eye towards how they can be broken down into motifs that he can explore in their numerous possible permutations. I can't provide every possible example here, but all your hummers out there, just ask how hummable the development sections of the Eroica or 5th are, compared to a good lyric tune as found in Verdi or Tchaikovsky. Motivic development is the engine that drives Beethoven's sonata forms, and lyricism would tend to slow it down. Even Berlioz, who revered Beethoven, could not approach Beethoven's methods of fragmentation and recombination; Berlioz tends to gravitate towards long-limbed, lyric melodies, and this inhibits his ability to create sonata-form movements that share Beethoven's propulsiveness.
I was talking about the Pastoral symphony before, about how much of the first movement grows from 4-5 motifs that are quarried from the opening four measures. See for yourself:
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 02:39:02 PM
Some of you guys are doing an excellent job of missing my point completely. Of course there are melodies in Beethoven, of course one can find the occasional small lyric piece, of course one can hum or sing along. But my point is that characteristically Beethoven does not proceed by writing long, self-contained lyric melodies. Instead he constructs his lines with an eye towards how they can be broken down into motifs that he can explore in their numerous possible permutations. I can't provide every possible example here, but all your hummers out there, just ask how hummable the development sections of the Eroica or 5th are, compared to a good lyric tune as found in Verdi or Tchaikovsky. Motivic development is the engine that drives Beethoven's sonata forms, and lyricism would tend to slow it down. Even Berlioz, who revered Beethoven, could not approach Beethoven's methods of fragmentation and recombination; Berlioz tends to gravitate towards long-limbed, lyric melodies, and this inhibits his ability to create sonata-form movements that share Beethoven's propulsiveness.
I was talking about the Pastoral symphony before, about how much of the first movement grows from 4-5 motifs that are quarried from the opening four measures. See for yourself:
Man, he must have been a genius! ;)
Thanks for explaining, sir.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 02:39:02 PM
Some of you guys are doing an excellent job of missing my point completely. Of course there are melodies in Beethoven, of course one can find the occasional small lyric piece, of course one can hum or sing along. But my point is that characteristically Beethoven does not proceed by writing long, self-contained lyric melodies . . .
I think, though, that part of the point of so many of us "missing your point completely," is that this isn't really the cut-&-dried binary either/or proposition. That both tightly rhetorical motivic working, and a less musclebound lyricism are
characteristic of
Beethoven.
Quote from: SforzandoEven Berlioz, who revered Beethoven, could not approach Beethoven's methods of fragmentation and recombination . . . .
I think that even to put it this way, is to suggest a number of errors.
Berlioz and
Beethoven are two distinct artists; no matter what various sympathies might exist between them, it is a mistake to fixate on one composer "approaching the methods" of the other.
Berlioz's admiration for
Beethoven is not going to mean that
Berlioz's goal is to imitate
Beethoven in all particulars, in all manners.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 02:39:02 PM
Instead he constructs his lines with an eye towards how they can be broken down into motifs that he can explore in their numerous possible permutations. I can't provide every possible example here, but all your hummers out there, just ask how hummable the development sections of the Eroica or 5th are, compared to a good lyric tune as found in Verdi or Tchaikovsky. Motivic development is the engine that drives Beethoven's sonata forms, and lyricism would tend to slow it down. Even Berlioz, who revered Beethoven, could not approach Beethoven's methods of fragmentation and recombination; Berlioz tends to gravitate towards long-limbed, lyric melodies, and this inhibits his ability to create sonata-form movements that share Beethoven's propulsiveness.
I was talking about the Pastoral symphony before, about how much of the first movement grows from 4-5 motifs that are quarried from the opening four measures. See for yourself:
I love you ........
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 04:46:26 PM
I love you ........
Nice to know someone does . . . .
Well, I think you're all right.
Quote from: Don on April 11, 2008, 08:09:50 AM
Get off your throne. There were plenty of folks who thought well of HIP Beethoven 15 years ago. You were neither right nor wrong - you just had a preference.
Yes and I was one of them, but from my experience on-line it seemed like I was some kind of severe radical for having these ideas, so we HIPsters must have been in the minority, at least regarding Beethoven. I'm disemboweling Karajan, to name but one, at this very moment at my site (don't worry I know it's not allowed here). I did have a preference Don as you say, the
right preference.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 12, 2008, 11:01:48 AMI'm disemboweling Karajan, to name but one, at this very moment at my site (don't worry I know it's not allowed here).
Really? I hadn't noticed. Perhaps you ought to actually look around here before you make statements like this. We have a broad spectrum of listeners here, including some HIP specialists with really extensive knowledge.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 12, 2008, 11:01:48 AM
I did have a preference Don as you say, the right preference.
What a clown! ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 04:30:32 PM
I think, though, that part of the point of so many of us "missing your point completely," is that this isn't really the cut-&-dried binary either/or proposition. That both tightly rhetorical motivic working, and a less musclebound lyricism are characteristic of Beethoven.
I think you put it very well, Karl. Sforzando is of course right when he says that Beethoven's emphasis on motivic development precludes self-contained melodies, but - Beethoven is able to create very memorable and malleable ideas that both satisfy our melodic sense and are pregnant with possibility.
Quote from: Jezetha on April 12, 2008, 12:30:33 PM
I think you put it very well, Karl. Sforzando is of course right when he says that Beethoven's emphasis on motivic development precludes self-contained melodies, but - Beethoven is able to create very memorable and malleable ideas that both satisfy our melodic sense and are pregnant with possibility.
....which may be similar to saying that Beethoven's motives (which he worked at until they contained as much potential as a small number of notes could give viz op 18/1) also therefore function as memorable melodic mateiral in their own right. A fair compromise.
To add my own little contribution - it's a big generalisation, but I think one could say the Beethoven-the-worker-with-motives is at his most concentrated in sonata movements (i.e. first movments); Beethoven-the-writer-of-extended-melodies is more evident in the other. This is true for classical sonatas in general, perhaps, but more so for Beethoven, I think. Taking the first lines of the four movements of the first sonata that comes to hand (no 4 in E flat) we can see this clearly - the first movement gives us the pulsating repeated note motive which is so important - memorable, but not exactly a great tune in itself! The melody that follows at the end of the line is, let us be honest, not great as a tune, but it is as a fund of motives - intervallic, harmonic, rhythmic - that it is most valuable*. Whereas the other movements each present us with more extended melodies with a greater amount of inner differentiation, as opposed to the more obsessive concentration on a single motive at a time seen in the first movement.
*Note the introduction here of the 'Corkinmotif' 'B-S', which we find in all movements, and is very common in Beethoven in general - think of the following highly-significant moments:
5th Symphony, first movement - triumphant proclamation of second subject: B B B S!
3rd Symphony, last movement - 'Muss es sein? Es muss sein?'-type question and answer form of basic theme - S-B? B-S!
5th Piano Concerto - opening of first subject or, even more remarkably, end of second movement into opening of last movement, as Beethoven mulls over the whole profound, Corkinesque B-S question.
and so on and on. Admitedly, the motive mainly occurs in music E flat major.... Only the other day I found a whole section of Wellington's Victory (Presto, pg 29 of full score) which repeatedly outlines the Corkinmotif in all its brazen glory - B-S, B-S, B-S, B-S, B-S, B-S - it is clear here if anywhere that Beethoven knew of Corkin's existence long before the Lord Rod manifested himself on earth. As if to make this prophetic music even clearer, at precisely this point Beethoven adds the significant words 'Ratschen an der Englischen seite'!
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 12, 2008, 01:24:44 PM
Taking the first lines of the four movements of the first sonata that comes to hand (no 4 in E flat) we can see this clearly - the first movement gives us the pulsating repeated note motive which is so important - memorable, but not exactly a great tune in itself! The melody that follows at the end of the line is, let us be honest, not great as a tune, but it is as a fund of motives - intervallic, harmonic, rhythmic - that it is most valuable*.
Exactly my point. I'll freely grant it applies more to B's more concentrated sonata form workings than anywhere else, but let's not forget the context in which I made my remarks: that is, Corky's insistence on the importance of "tunes," which I thought an odd statement given his interest in Beethoven as one of the only two composers ever born that are worth listening to.
you don't need to 'freely grant' anything - I know what you meant, and I agree!
Beethoven is most remarkable where he merges motivic unity with
seamless lyrical beauty, such as with the 1st movement of the
Fourth Piano Concerto .......... And how many other composers could manage that feat? Very few.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 12, 2008, 01:38:53 PM
Exactly my point. I'll freely grant it applies more to B's more concentrated sonata form workings than anywhere else, but let's not forget the context in which I made my remarks: that is, Corky's insistence on the importance of "tunes," which I thought an odd statement given his interest in Beethoven as one of the only two composers ever born that are worth listening to.
It's important to remember that in the evolutionary progress of music appreciation, people begin life grasping melodies, and, only after they've sufficiently evolved will they develop the ability to fathom motivic cohesion (and other advanced musical concepts) ..........
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 12, 2008, 01:24:44 PM
3rd Symphony, last movement - 'Muss es sein? Es muss sein?'-type question and answer form of basic theme - S-B? B-S!
Not only the last movement:
Well, indeed, it's peppered throughout Beethoven's oeuvre, and particularly this symphony, which really ought to be retitled 'The BS Symphony'. But one mustn't over-do things when advancing a shocking new thesis such as this one - it's best to tread with circumspection until all are won over to your view. Rod's shining example has taught us that if nothing else, surely!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 12, 2008, 09:11:23 AM
Well, I think you're all right.
I'd go as far as to say a real cool guy.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 12, 2008, 02:44:49 PM
Well, indeed, it's peppered throughout Beethoven's oeuvre, and particularly this symphony, which really ought to be retitled 'The BS Symphony'. But one mustn't over-do things when advancing a shocking new thesis such as this one - it's best to tread with circumspection until all are won over to your view. Rod's shining example has taught us that if nothing else, surely!
When it come to BS it seems you are truly the King of it! You have taken BS to new and greater heights, just when I thought the BS level at GMG was already too great to ever be surpassed. I thought wrong!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 14, 2008, 12:54:55 AM
When it come to BS it seems you are truly the King of it! You have taken BS to new and greater heights, just when I thought the BS level at GMG was already too great to ever be surpassed. I thought wrong!
That's as may be. Though I humbly submit that I have earnt the right to a little Corkin-inspried BS, as my posts in general tend towards the more well-considered (and indeed over-serious). Yours, I'm afraid, tend very much in the opposite direction.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 14, 2008, 01:51:27 AM
That's as may be. Though I humbly submit that I have earnt the right to a little Corkin-inspried BS, as my posts in general tend towards the more well-considered (and indeed over-serious). Yours, I'm afraid, tend very much in the opposite direction.
Well I have provided some rather more detailed and serious (but
not over-serious) commentries concerning each of Beethoven's symphonies at my site (well up to Nr7 so far with the remainder soon to follow), complete with examples of the various interpretive approaches to this music provided by myself and other members. Alas you'll have to join to get at this material, or get one of the other persons here with dual membership to provide it for you.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 14, 2008, 01:58:45 AM
Alas you'll have to join to get at this material
Alas! poor Luke!
I will simply have to resign myself to my misfortune, then. But why, oh why can't Rob grace us mere GMG-ers with his deep insights? Why must he hide his light under a bushel instead of sharing it with the world?
(http://www.l2si.speculist.com/FatCat.jpg)
Quote from: MN Dave on April 14, 2008, 07:05:24 AM
(http://www.l2si.speculist.com/FatCat.jpg)
Is that a photo of a cat listening to Rod's quartet?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 14, 2008, 07:16:31 AM
Is that a photo of a cat listening to Rod's quartet?
It's me watching this endless thread. :)
I'm glad you put your paw there, then.
Quote from: MN Dave on April 14, 2008, 07:19:10 AM
It's me watching this endless thread. :)
You can't blame me for stretching it out Dave, even when I've long had enough myself there's always someone here with something new and insightful to add. Maybe they just can't allow Rodders the last word? Who knows?
Or just possibly it's the other way round. ::)
But if only there was such a thing as a 'last word' from Rod.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 14, 2008, 07:54:33 AM
Or just possibly it's the other way round. ::)
But if only there was such a thing as a 'last word' from Rod.
Au contraire, usually I jump ship after I've had my fill of a topic. In the vast majority of cases I allow others the last word, once the aforementioned ship has been jumped I never go back to read them in any case!
Will you be man enough to bend the knee just this once Luke?
Quote from: MN Dave on April 14, 2008, 07:19:10 AM
It's me watching this endless thread. :)
What are you doing with your left paw?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 14, 2008, 12:30:27 PM
What are you doing with your left paw?
If I had any underwear on, it would be down them.
Quote from: MN Dave on April 14, 2008, 12:34:01 PM
If I had any underwear on, it would be down them.
Jeez - a fat, drunk couch potatocat playing with himself while listening to Rod's Quartet. No wonder they say classical music is dying.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 14, 2008, 07:54:33 AM
Or just possibly it's the other way round. ::)
But if only there was such a thing as a 'last word' from Rod.
See what I mean, they just love me here. I will have the last word in my own topic, or it will go on for ever and it will get into the top 10 like my first effort. ;D
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 03:06:30 AM
....or it will go on for ever and it will get into the top 10 like my first effort. ;D
Ooh, top 10, eh? Whoever it was that compared Rod to Python's Pilate - 'he wanks as high as any in Wome' - obviously had even more of a point than they imagined. Is it of that much concern to you, Rod, how long the threads you start are? Compensating, perhaps....
I do agree, though, that it is ironic and amusing that a thread about a piece of music which 'hilarously' contains practically nothing, written by a man who was practically nothing to say (except touting for trade at his own forum, which, if it was worth the trouble, wouldn't need touting for) should become this long. But so what - it's all good fun, isn't it!
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 03:39:24 AM
Ooh, top 10, eh? Whoever it was that compared Rod to Python's Pilate - 'he wanks as high as any in Wome' - obviously had even more of a point than they imagined. Is it of that much concern to you, Rod, how long the threads you start are? Compensating, perhaps....
Not that important, but it is a warning that the last (ie the first) time I created a topic here it went on for I think 32 pages and 800+ posts, most of which were 'junk mail'. Just a warning.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 03:39:24 AM
I do agree, though, that it is ironic and amusing that a thread about a piece of music which 'hilarously' contains practically nothing, written by a man who was practically nothing to say (except touting for trade at his own forum, which, if it was worth the trouble, wouldn't need touting for) should become this long. But so what - it's all good fun, isn't it!
Yes all good fun, but remember there's no such thing as bad publicity. You guys are doing my own promotion work for me. ;D
I've got plenty to say however, almost 2500 post at my place since last Oct. Just because you don't want to read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 03:06:30 AM
See what I mean, they just love me here. I will have the last word in my own topic, or it will go on for ever and it will get into the top 10 like my first effort. ;D
Oh! meine Theorie! Oh mein Ruhm! Ich werde unsterblich!
Unsterblich! Unsterblich!
Unsterblich!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 03:49:06 AM
Yes all good fun, but remember there's no such thing as bad publicity. You guys are doing my own promotion work for me. ;D
We are doing an excellent job of driving traffic away from your site.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 15, 2008, 03:51:49 AM
We are doing an excellent job of driving traffic away from your site.
That's what you think. But I'm sure GMG benefits from my presence here too, the view count on my first topic was over 10,000 I think.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 15, 2008, 03:51:04 AM
Oh! meine Theorie! Oh mein Ruhm! Ich werde unsterblich!
Unsterblich! Unsterblich!
Unsterblich!
I think the allusion may be a little over the head of one who only likes two composers, Dr. Sfz.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 03:58:06 AM
I think the allusion may be a little over the head of one who only likes two composers, Dr. Sfz.
No you just don't get it, I like the best and unlike yourself have little time to waste on the runners up and below them the utter crap that makes up most of the realm of classical music. Beethoven and Handel are the top of the tree. Simple as that. Deal with it Luke! ;D You can listen to the crap all day if you want, and no doubt you do.
If you have no discernment you have nothing Luke.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:00:40 AM
No you just don't get it, I like the best and unlike yourself have little time to waste on the runners up and below them the utter crap that makes up most of the realm of classical music. Beethoven and Handel are the top of the tree. Simple as that. Deal with it Luke! ;D You can listen to the crap all day if you want, and no doubt you do.
Where on the tree does your String Quartet fall?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 15, 2008, 04:11:07 AM
Where on the tree does your String Quartet fall?
With the crap of course, where do you think? I dumped the one note on the page without even looking where I put it! I had you all fooled! ;D
Adios chaps! ;)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:13:26 AM
I had you all fooled!
Not me; I knew this thread was just wanking from the start.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 15, 2008, 04:22:00 AM
Not me; I knew this thread was just wanking from the start.
What gave it away?
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:00:40 AM
No you just don't get it, I like the best and unlike yourself have little time to waste on the runners up and below them the utter crap that makes up most of the realm of classical music. Beethoven and Handel are the top of the tree. Simple as that. Deal with it Luke! ;D You can listen to the crap all day if you want, and no doubt you do.
If you have no discernment you have nothing Luke.
Spent most of the day yesterday playing Beethoven, Rod. Myself, I mean, with my own fingers. Though I rounded off the day with some Jonathan Harvey.
I'll say this for Beethoven - for all the advocacy you give him, I still haven't been put off him. More than I can say for Mendelssohn, or (some) Elgar
Quote from: karlhenning on April 15, 2008, 04:22:00 AM
Not me; I knew this thread was just wanking from the start.
(http://www.222design.com/myspace/ceiling_cat.jpg)
"Kindergarten humor" brought to you by MN Dave. 8)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:13:26 AM
With the crap of course, where do you think? I dumped the one note on the page without even looking where I put it! I had you all fooled! ;D
Adios chaps! ;)
OMG - you really think we were all taking your quartet seriously? That it was a convincing fraud which would have everyone fooled? :o :o :o :o ??? ??? ??? ??? I'm staggered! Here I am, lazily assuming (as anyone with an ounce of sense would) that
you understand that the whole discussion about your quartet, fanciful theories and mock-analyses and all, is taking place within enormous inverted commas, ....and it turns out you think we all were in earnest belief that it was a 'real' piece of music. What an ego..... ::)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:13:26 AM
With the crap of course, where do you think? I dumped the one note on the page without even looking where I put it! I had you all fooled! ;D
You sure had me fooled!
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:13:26 AM
Adios chaps! ;)
Do you mean it?
Haha fooled you again! ;D ;D
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 04:50:25 AM
OMG - you really think we were all taking your quartet seriously? That it was a convincing fraud which would have everyone fooled? :o :o :o :o ??? ??? ??? ??? I'm staggered! Here I am, lazily assuming (as anyone with an ounce of sense would) that you understand that the whole discussion about your quartet, fanciful theories and mock-analyses and all, is taking place within enormous inverted commas, ....and it turns out you think we all were in earnest belief that it was a 'real' piece of music. What an ego..... ::)
I fooled you into thinking that I thought I had fooled you! ;D
Oh I'm just too sharp Luke, too sharp... 8)
Or are you now fooling me into thinking I fooled you into thinking that I thought I had fooled you?? :-\
No, I just continue to think that you're a fool. :P
I understand that there is a time-lag between west-central Indiana and England, if I recall correctly, but doesn't Rowdy Roddy Corkin have a job? A family? Friends? A small animal? There's single-minded determination, and there's single-minded determination. If this is all a larf, then why so serious, friend?
Quote from: PSmith08 on April 15, 2008, 06:13:15 AM
A small animal?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6881.msg169373.html#msg169373
Quote from: PSmith08 on April 15, 2008, 06:13:15 AM
I understand that there is a time-lag between west-central Indiana and England, if I recall correctly, but doesn't Rowdy Roddy Corkin have a job? A family? Friends? A small animal? There's single-minded determination, and there's single-minded determination. If this is all a larf, then why so serious, friend?
Who's being serious?? Who's being rowdy?? Not Roddy. 0:)
Quote from: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 03:39:24 AM
Ooh, top 10, eh? Whoever it was that compared Rod to Python's Pilate - 'he wanks as high as any in Wome' - obviously had even more of a point than they imagined. Is it of that much concern to you, Rod, how long the threads you start are? Compensating, perhaps....
I do agree, though, that it is ironic and amusing that a thread about a piece of music which 'hilarously' contains practically nothing, written by a man who was practically nothing to say (except touting for trade at his own forum, which, if it was worth the trouble, wouldn't need touting for) should become this long. But so what - it's all good fun, isn't it!
Wait (dying laughing) did you have to bring up that movie? "Bigguth Dickuth"... (i can't stand it, my face is turning purple)
Thamthon the Thadduthee Thtrangler . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on April 15, 2008, 07:37:06 AM
Thamthon the Thadduthee Thtrangler . . . .
That's definently one of the greatest movies ever. I rank it with "History of the World pt.2". Completely ridiculous and hilarious.
Quote from: Haffner on April 15, 2008, 07:38:29 AM
That's definently one of the greatest movies ever. I rank it with "History of the World pt.2". Completely ridiculous and hilarious.
"History of the World pt.2"??? What utter utter crap that is!! ;D
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 07:43:29 AM
"History of the World pt.2"??? What utter utter crap that is!! ;D
You
got me,
Rod.
I
do love pt.1. But I'm weird anyhoo.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 07:43:29 AM
"History of the World pt.2"??? What utter utter crap that is!! ;D
Like your quartet . . . .
Quote from: Sforzando on April 15, 2008, 07:54:12 AM
Like your quartet . . . .
I have already stated the same myself so your latest attempt at nastiness has fallen rather hollow. :o
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 08:26:02 AM
I have already stated the same myself
Just in time ;D
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 04:00:40 AM
No you just don't get it, I like the best and unlike yourself have little time to waste on the runners up and below them the utter crap that makes up most of the realm of classical music.
If you really believe that most of classical music is "utter crap", that's a good indication that you don't love classical music.
Quote from: Haffner on April 15, 2008, 07:49:06 AM
I do love pt.1. But I'm weird anyhoo.
At all events, even
Mel Brooks is less puerilely self-indulgent than the Corkster.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 15, 2008, 08:26:02 AM
I have already stated the same myself so your latest attempt at nastiness has fallen rather hollow. :o
But you should appreciate having your low opinion of your work confirmed by a discriminating authority.
I don't know which is a bigger wank-fest, this one or the Religion thread in the Diner. ;D
Quote from: MN Doom on April 15, 2008, 12:35:04 PM
You are too kind, Dr. Henning.
Supa-Dupa,
Doom Dude!
Quote from: Haffner on April 15, 2008, 02:18:48 PM
Supa-Dupa, Doom Dude!
(http://kungfurodeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/chicken_doom_cover_final1.jpg)
Tony, I thank you heartily for that! 'Twas good for my soul 8)
Quote from: Szykniej on April 15, 2008, 05:07:41 PM
(http://kungfurodeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/chicken_doom_cover_final1.jpg)
:D
Quote from: Don on April 15, 2008, 08:51:01 AM
If you really believe that most of classical music is "utter crap", that's a good indication that you don't love classical music.
I don't love everything played on a fiddle just because it is played on a fiddle. It is clear many people just like the sound of classical music, whatever it is, and there is little or no intellectual engagement on their part during this process. Not me, I actually listen to it, and if you actually listen to it you will hear a lot of crap. A casual listen to the UK's Classic FM radio demonstrate how much crap music has been written. :(
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 16, 2008, 03:10:18 AM
I don't love everything played on a fiddle just because it is played on a fiddle. It is clear many people just like the sound of classical music, whatever it is, and there is little or no intellectual engagement on their part during this process. Not me, I actually listen to it, and if you actually listen to it you will hear a lot of crap. A casual listen to the UK's Classic FM radio demonstrate how much crap music has been written. :(
Why don't you tell us a few examples of what you consider "crap."
Quote from: Sforzando on April 16, 2008, 03:14:46 AM
Why don't you tell us a few examples of what you consider "crap."
don't want to... :-X
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 16, 2008, 03:34:23 AM
don't want to... :-X
How do you reconcile your antipathy to all composers except Beethoven and Handel with running a Board which purports to be one for discussing and generally appreciating Classical Music in general? I imagine you must spend a lot of time feeling quite uncomfortable.
Quote from: Topaz on April 16, 2008, 03:45:47 AM
How do you reconcile your antipathy to all composers except Beethoven and Handel with running a Board which purports to be one for discussing and generally appreciating Classical Music in general? I imagine you must spend a lot of time feeling quite uncomfortable.
I never said 'all'. I said there is the top of the tree, then there are the runners up and then the crap. I never feel uncomfortable, nothing is censored at my site, unlike all the other sites I am or have been a member of.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 16, 2008, 03:34:23 AM
don't want to... :-X
So blustering, sputtering Rod becomes flustering, muttering Rod when challenged to put his money where his mouth is.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 16, 2008, 03:53:37 AM
I never said 'all'. I said there is the top of the tree, then there are the runners up and then the crap. I never feel uncomfortable, nothing is censored at my site, unlike all the other sites I am or have been a member of.
I think many people will admit to having a hierachy of favourite composers. For most, however, there seems to be a much more gradual tapering off in their enthusiasm (and tolerance of others), whereas in your case it seems that Beethoven and Handel are deemed to be so much higher in quality that the rest don't really compare. You haven't said how many runners up there in your preference system, and why suddenly after that everything falls into the crap depatment. Why don't you tell us, for example, what you think of the major works of Schubert, Schumann or Brahms? Is all that crap or runner material? Also, is it true that the main candidate you perceive as challenging the greatness of Beethoven is Mozart, and that this is really why you have encouraged a certain gentleman to continue his denigratory campaign against Mozart on your Board?
Quote from: Topaz on April 16, 2008, 04:20:14 AM
I think many people will admit to having a hierachy of favourite composers. For most, however, there seems to be a much more gradual tapering off in their enthusiasm (and tolerance of others), whereas in your case it seems that Beethoven and Handel are deemed to be so much higher in quality that the rest don't really compare. You haven't said how many runners up there in your preference system, and why suddenly after that everything falls into the crap depatment. Why don't you tell us, for example, what you think of the major works of Schubert, Schumann or Brahms? Is all that crap or runner material? Also, is it true that the main candidate you perceive as challenging the greatness of Beethoven is Mozart, and that this is really why you have encouraged a certain gentleman to continue his denigratory campaign against Mozart on your Board?
Rod has already told us that the operas of Mozart are "unmemorable" (while every opera of Handel is, naturally, full of hit tunes). To the former statement I replied, "if they're so unmemorable, how is it I can play long stretches of several of them at the piano from memory"?
Quote from: Topaz on April 16, 2008, 04:20:14 AM
Why don't you tell us, for example, what you think of the major works of Schubert, Schumann or Brahms? Is all that crap or runner material?
We would love to hear your criticisms of Brahms, Corky ......... Let 'er rip .........
It was very early in the morning, the streets clean and deserted, I was on my way to the railroad station. As I compared the tower clock with my watch I realized it was already much later than I had thought, I had to hurry, the shock of this discovery made me feel uncertain of the way, I was not very well acquainted with the town yet, fortunately there was a policeman nearby, I ran to him and breathlessly asked him the way. He smiled and said: 'From me you want to learn the way?' 'Yes,' I said, 'since I cannot find it myself.' 'Give it up, give it up,' said he, and turned away with a great sweep, like someone who wants to be alone with his laughter.
Franz Kafka, "Give It Up"
Stalemates can't be resolved. In chess, people stop, pick up the pieces and the board, and leave.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 16, 2008, 04:24:46 AM
Rod has already told us that the operas of Mozart are "unmemorable" (while every opera of Handel is, naturally, full of hit tunes).
Everything is relative! You may remember Mozart but after I hear Handel's operas Mozart's thin barely perceptible melodies pale into insignificance. But if you want to read my various critical assessments you know where to go, I'm not repeating it all here (or search out my Bach/Handel topic here from the archives for a little taster!). Anyway this topic is supposed to be about my quartet! ;D
Quote from: The Corkster
Anyway this topic is supposed to be about my quartet!
Not much of a thread, befitting not much of a quartet. Not much of a thread originator.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 16, 2008, 07:16:39 AM
Not much of a thread, befitting not much of a quartet. Not much of a thread originator.
It's not the substance, it's the length. ;)
Quote from: MN Doom on April 16, 2008, 07:18:37 AM
It's not the substance, it's the length. ;)
Feel the quality... ;D
Quote from: Szykniej on April 15, 2008, 05:07:41 PM
(http://kungfurodeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/chicken_doom_cover_final1.jpg)
blows coffee all over the keyboard
Quote from: Haffner on April 16, 2008, 11:12:13 AM
blows coffee all over the keyboard
Wipe it up then, or you'll get sticky fingers.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 17, 2008, 03:54:33 AM
Wipe it up then, or you'll get sticky fingers.
(http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/11630000/11636484.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFZBaUEAPBg
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 16, 2008, 05:06:45 AM
You may remember Mozart but after I hear Handel's operas Mozart's thin barely perceptible melodies pale into insignificance.
Some of the wackos who frequent this joint are so obnoxious I wish they would just go away, but you, dear Rod, are a fount of mirth. Victor Borge might be funnier, but you run a close second. Do you play the piano?
edited to correct a fishy typo
Indeed. Rod the desiccated worm, presuming to relegate Mozart to "insignificance," is irony on a cosmic scale.
Quote from: DavidRoss on April 19, 2008, 04:26:35 AM
Some of the wackos who frequent this joint are so obnoxious I wish they would just go away, but you, dear Rod, are a fount of mirth. Victor Borge might be funnier, but you run a close second. Do you play the piano?
edited to correct a fishy typo
The number of wackos here is one of the main reasons I decided to create my own forum. I keep popping back here to see if things have changed, but they never do. A shame really.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 21, 2008, 01:26:57 AM
The number of wackos here is one of the main reasons I decided to create my own forum. I keep popping back here to see if things have changed, but they never do. A shame really.
Thankfully, you have your own wacko-free forum in which to retreat ..........
Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 21, 2008, 01:26:57 AM
The number of wackos here is one of the main reasons I decided to create my own forum. I keep popping back here to see if things have changed, but they never do. A shame really.
If so, then:
1) Why return?
2) Why invite any of us to your site?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 21, 2008, 03:37:34 AM
If so, then:
1) Why return?
2) Why invite any of us to your site?
1) Because I am a member, I am an eternal optimist, I don't like the idea of the bully boys having it all their own way, and now and again I see a topic here that actually captures my interest.
2) Well I don't recall extending an official open invitation here, I expect that would be frowned upon by the management! I think I first 'advertised' my site here in the music downloads topic and got told off. Feel free to join up if you want, if only to have a look for ammunition, but it has a different angle to this place. I don't get this thing about belonging only to one forum, I've lost count of the number I'm a member of, and even the Mods here are members of other CM related forums I'm sure. No doubt like many other members I originally found out about GMG from something I read at another forum, so nobody can take the moral high ground on this matter - GMG gains from this kind of thing too.
I had grown weary at GMG this eve, and had set out to find a string quartet forum somewhere, when all of a sudden this little gem popped up. Bumping it for later.