I just wanted to start an appreciation thread for this set of preludes. While overall the total quality isn't up to that of the first book, there are several pieces, which in my opinion, eclipse anything the first book had to offer.
Brouillards - this music is incredibly eerie...the opening few bars really set the tone for the rest of the music.
Feuilles mortes (dead leaves)- what a wonderfully melancholic piece; it apparently comes from the Peter Pan painting Arthur Rackham which had the caption "There is probably nothing that encourages the joy of playing more than a dead leaf." Cool.
La Puerta del vino - a much stronger spanishy-flavoured tune than 'la serenade etc...' with some great chordal melodies. (mm 36-41 if you have score)
La terrasse des audiences dy claur de lune - this music haunts my thoughts. There's something so incredibly enticing about the opening cascade of notes. I particularly love mm 20 and on...although the whole piece is strong.
These are great pieces, but I still think that overall, the first book is the better, simply because there isn't a weak piece among them. In the second book, I found 'fireworks' to be lacking in material, although it was flamboyant.
What does everyone else think?
i like fireworks most of all, especially with michelangeli playing
Really? I have Zimerman's prelude set (which is awesome). I've only heard Michelangeli play the first set. Perhaps I should try and get a hold of the second.
zimerman is cool, but i find his sound a tad metallic for debussy.
Quote from: facehugger on April 07, 2007, 01:46:01 AM
...i find his sound a tad metallic for debussy.
synaesthesia alarm
I foresee O Mensch apparition here. Soon.
a what?
Quote from: Manuel on April 08, 2007, 07:14:57 AM
I foresee O Mensch apparition here. Soon.
;D Only to unhesitatingly second the recommendation for Michelangeli.
So no one has any comments on the actual music besides 'facehuggers' one liners? The first book seemed more popular. Maybe that's a reflection of how the second set is generally received.
Quote from: JCampbell on April 08, 2007, 11:28:51 PM
So no one has any comments on the actual music besides 'facehuggers' one liners? The first book seemed more popular. Maybe that's a reflection of how the second set is generally received.
I do. I just don't have time right now. Patience, my friend.
There was an awesome poll on the old board about your favorite Debussy piano work. Book 1 outnumbered Book 2 by a large margin.
The first book is probably the most accessible, and has maybe the most popular prelude, La fille aux cheveux de lin. It begins with a piece that's more accessible (I can't think of another word), as opposed to Brouillards, which is atonal(?) and just more difficult.
If you look at the parallels between the two books you can see how Debussy had improved, since Book 2 was written a few years later. Bruyeres is very similar to La fille, but it is just more refined, and Debussy does more with that sweet melody than before.
I don't know about "total quality" compared to the first book, since, again, I think this is the more mature work.
Quote from: oyasumi on April 09, 2007, 07:46:48 AM
It begins with a piece that's more accessible (I can't think of another word), as opposed to Brouillards, which is atonal(?) and just more difficult.
I don't know if "Danseuse de Delphes" is really accessible. It just happens to have a few nice effects that draw the listener in. But it's not that simple. There is little straightforwardly tonal in either of the two books. All of it is harmonically ambiguous at least.
Well, but isn't a few nice effects that draw the listener in a means of access?
Quote from: karlhenning on April 09, 2007, 08:39:47 AM
Well, but isn't a few nice effects that draw the listener in a means of access?
I like to distinguish between pieces that are upfront accessible because of the familiar musical language they use, and pieces that in a way dupe the unfamiliar listener into following along even though the musical language used is in fact something very unfamiliar.
Quote from: O Mensch on April 09, 2007, 08:41:43 AM
I like to distinguish between pieces that are upfront accessible because of the familiar musical language they use, and pieces that in a way dupe the unfamiliar listener into following along even though the musical language used is in fact something very unfamiliar.
Could you spell that out in this case, then? For as I hear
Danseuses de Delphes, I'm not sure on which side of that divide it lies.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 09, 2007, 08:43:54 AM
Could you spell that out in this case, then? For as I hear Danseuses de Delphes, I'm not sure on which side of that divide it lies.
I guess that depends more on your estimation of the audience we are talking about. ;)
Quote from: O Mensch on April 09, 2007, 08:38:12 AM
I don't know if "Danseuse de Delphes" is really accessible. It just happens to have a few nice effects that draw the listener in. But it's not that simple. There is little straightforwardly tonal in either of the two books. All of it is harmonically ambiguous at least.
Debussy can be amiguous all he wants and still be accessible. The point was to open the set with a piece with that can grab the listener with something they can be comfortable with, "a few nice effects" or whatever, but at the same time preparing them for what's to come.
With Book 2 he just throws you straight into the mist from the beginning.
I would have to say that "the hills of anacapri" and "the girl with the flaxen hair" are the most accessible pieces from the first book. There's still a bit of strain on the ears with "Dancers of Delphi."
I don't think Brouillards is that 'misty' either...probably a bit more ominous sounding. I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I would hardly classify it as 'atonal' music. Maybe someone else can enlighten me in that respect.
Quote from: JCampbell on April 09, 2007, 11:15:09 PM
I don't think Brouillards is that 'misty' either...
Do you know what "brouillards" means?
Quote from: oyasumi on April 11, 2007, 03:54:19 PM
Do you know what "brouillards" means?
Whoops! hehe...do now! :D
Still, from a purely music perspective, I stand by my original statement. ;)
Quote from: JCampbell on April 09, 2007, 11:15:09 PM
I would have to say that "the hills of anacapri" and "the girl with the flaxen hair" are the most accessible pieces from the first book. There's still a bit of strain on the ears with "Dancers of Delphi."
I don't think Brouillards is that 'misty' either...probably a bit more ominous sounding. I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I would hardly classify it as 'atonal' music. Maybe someone else can enlighten me in that respect.
It's not atonal; it is chromatically saturated throughout - hence the misty effects! - by the superimposition of white note and black note patterns, but the patterns themselves, which are mostly triads and pentatonic fragments, are among the staples of tonal music. That's one of the fascinating things about this piece: Debussy uses the very simplest and most familiar of means - almost naive, in fact - but combines them in such a way as to obscure their standard familiarity and clarity. That, in addition to the pedal-drenched sonority, is why the piece has this 'misty' character - mistiness not just in general sound but in the way simple 'solid' objects have become hard to discern and understand. There are countless shades within this of course - a great moment is when he clarifies the notation so that that inpenetrably complex cloud of sound you are proudly holding onto with your foot in one bar...is in the next revealed to be no more than a simple chord of open fifths. That's eye music, I suppose, but it's effective nonetheless.
So to return to the point - it isn't atonal. Perhaps in a sense it is bitonal, in that at any point each hand is doing something very tonal indeed, but it doesn't function like normal bitonality. Indeed, just as much Debussy takes functional tonality and treats it in a non-functional way, so here he seems to be doing the same in a bitonal sense. Another point is that most of the time it is one-pattern-then-another: they are not played simultanously, although the pedal blurs them together. How does that affect things...? In the end, I'd just plump for: it's in plain old C major, but with persistent decoration superimposed in other predominantly black note keys.
It's things like this - all these extra layers of sophisitication we see in this piece, I suppose, and an unwillingness to put everything right up on the surface - which make me contrary in possibly preferring the second book to the first, though I don't see the need to make a choice and love both. Interestingly enough, there seems to me to be a general pattern of preferring first books to seconds (think of the Chopin or Ligeti Etudes, or even, with many people, the WTC).
To make a fair comparison of the two books, I find I must go back to my student days because in more recent years, when the mood takes one to look up old favourites, what comes out first? Why, book one of course. So here are some of my book 2 favourites that I am going to play again:
"Les Fées sone d'exquise danseuses"
La terrasse dea audiences du claur de lune
Canope
Les tierces alternées
Unfortunately, I never managed to master Feux d'Artifice
Quote from: Ten thumbs on April 12, 2007, 09:06:58 AM
To make a fair comparison of the two books, I find I must go back to my student days because in more recent years, when the mood takes one to look up old favourites, what comes out first? Why, book one of course. So here are some of my book 2 favourites that I am going to play again:
"Les Fées sone d'exquise danseuses"
La terrasse dea audiences du claur de lune
Canope
Les tierces alternées
Unfortunately, I never managed to master Feux d'Artifice
My personal favorite is La Puerta del vino. General Lavine is fun, too.
Quote from: Ten thumbs on April 12, 2007, 09:06:58 AM
To make a fair comparison of the two books, I find I must go back to my student days because in more recent years, when the mood takes one to look up old favourites, what comes out first? Why, book one of course. So here are some of my book 2 favourites that I am going to play again:
"Les Fées sone d'exquise danseuses"
La terrasse dea audiences du claur de lune
Canope
Les tierces alternées
Unfortunately, I never managed to master Feux d'Artifice
You should record them! I'd love to hear you play.
O Mensch...I didn't know you played. Or are you referring to which piece you liked the most?
Quote from: JCampbell on April 12, 2007, 10:58:50 AM
O Mensch...I didn't know you played. Or are you referring to which piece you liked the most?
I play, though I was also referring to the pieces I like most in Book II, both to hear and to play. Debussy's preludes keep me sane. I return to these works over and over again and they cemented my love for the instrument. I haven't practiced them in a long time -- have concentrated on Mozart, Brahms and Beethoven as of late -- but Danseuses de Delphes, Voiles, la Cathedrale engloutie, des pas sur la neige, Collines d'Anacapri and La Fille aux cheveux de lin are part of my permanent active repertoire. Cathedrale is one of my all-time favorites.
Quote from: Mensch on April 12, 2007, 11:25:43 AM
I play, though I was also referring to the pieces I like most in Book II, both to hear and to play. Debussy's preludes keep me sane. I return to these works over and over again and they cemented my love for the instrument. I haven't practiced them in a long time -- have concentrated on Mozart, Brahms and Beethoven as of late -- but Danseuses de Delphes, Voiles, la Cathedrale engloutie, des pas sur la neige, Collines d'Anacapri and La Fille aux cheveux de lin are part of my permanent active repertoire. Cathedrale is one of my all-time favorites.
Does anyone like "Ondine?" Debussy's use of parallel chords are magnificent; this piece is quintessential Debussy, and certain chords are not unlike the use of atmospheric subtleties of Ravel's "La Valle Des Cloches." This is essentially my territory. The Preludes overall are wonderful.
Good thread! I've always liked Book II better, that's because I "imprinted" on them first. Guess who? Sviatoslav Richter, on an old Vox/Turnabout LP, back on 1969...who would have thought Richter? But he does it very subtly and lightly, with a fleeting, delicate touch. I didn't know that stiff-jawed guy had it in him!
It's available on CD as "Richter in Sploeto," and it is still my favorite. You hear him walking out on stage as the church bells are chiming!
I'd like to try the Zimmerman as well; I saw it used. I have Michaelangeli, and I agree that it is superb.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/512P5KK3hrL._AC_US218_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61F-chY+ZmL._AC_US218_.jpg)
This one is nice, too, by Jeni Zaharieva: (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51B9EFrPGGL._AC_US218_.jpg)
I always go back to the late Paul Jacobs as well, on Nonesuch.