It's not a new topic, but I'd like to tackle it somewhat differently. How broad is your conception of program music? ==> Would you include all works depicting season(s)?
==> All operas (because they're based on a libretto)?
==> Are all tone poems synonymous to program music?
==> Music based on children's stories (such as Peter and the Wolf)?
==> Named symphonies (such as Eine Alpensinfonie, London Symphony, Leningrad, Sinfonia Antarctica)
==> ballet suites (such as Romeo and Juliet or Daphnis and Chloe)
Geez! So much music based on some kind of extra-musical idea (the Wikipedia definition of program music).
Should we chat about Thomas Beattie's five-month pregnancy?
I wouldn't consider all of what you list above to be Program Music. The definition I go by is this one: "Programme music, which has been contrasted with Absolute Music, is distinguished by its attempt to depict objects and events" with attempt to depict being the key phrase. For defintions of a more specialized nature, I would stay away from Wikipedia. Try this link instead:
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/g_programme_music.html
How about music based on, and attempting to convey a sequence of events? Numerous ballets come to mind. And since an event is about some kind of action, is any action-driven music program music?
I would call "ballet music" ballet music, "opera music" opera music, "sacred music" sacred music and so on because that music already falls into specific universally accepted categories. I would call Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" program music because of the specific intent to portray times of the year using the string concerto format, while his "Concerto in B Major for Four Violins" would not be program music.
Quote from: Szykniej on April 06, 2008, 02:11:07 PM
I would call "ballet music" ballet music, "opera music" opera music, "sacred music" sacred music and so on because that music already falls into specific universally accepted categories. I would call Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" program music because of the specific intent to portray times of the year using the string concerto format, while his "Concerto in B Major for Four Violins" would not be program music.
I would agree with this. In opera or ballet, you have the external reference of the libretto or choreography. In a piece of program music, a composer attempts to evoke a visual image or story through musical means alone.
I dislike program music. "This is the hero going up the stairs. This is the hero going down the stairs. This is the hero staring out the window. The little repeated string figure represents the hero scratching his arse." BLEH.
But I wouldn't personally count "The four seasons" as program music, simply because it stands perfectly well (or better) without the program. More than can be said for the works of Mr Strauss.
How about Pictures at an Exhibition, piano or orchestral version?
Quote from: Benny on April 08, 2008, 03:52:21 AM
How about Pictures at an Exhibition, piano or orchestral version?
Yes, that is program music, in which ever version.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on April 08, 2008, 04:38:56 AM
Yes, that is program music, in which ever version.
In the orchestral version, they're color pictures; in the piano version, they're black and white.
Quote from: eyeresist on April 07, 2008, 11:26:35 PM
I dislike program music. "This is the hero going up the stairs. This is the hero going down the stairs. This is the hero staring out the window. The little repeated string figure represents the hero scratching his arse." BLEH.
But I wouldn't personally count "The four seasons" as program music, simply because it stands perfectly well (or better) without the program. More than can be said for the works of Mr Strauss.
That's really the central issue with program music: i.e., how literally it is intended to tell a story, rather than create a coherent musical form on its own. Some program music - like the Beethoven Pastoral - was designed to convey moods, impressions, or feelings, rather than tell a detailed literal story. Debussy supposedly decided on titles for his piano preludes only after writing them. Perhaps the danger in some of Liszt's, Dvorak's, and Strauss's tone poems is that they rely overmuch on the storyline to shape their forms. But I am less convinced this is a problem with Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, or Death and Transfiguration than I am with larger and more sprawling works like Heldenleben, Zarathustra, or the Sinfonia Domestica.