GMG Classical Music Forum

The Back Room => The Diner => Topic started by: Sean on April 10, 2008, 08:31:10 PM

Title: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 10, 2008, 08:31:10 PM
The Apostrophe

This is the most complex punctuation mark and has two main functions- abbreviation or indicating missing letters and possession or indicating belonging.

Abbreviation

For example, did not becomes didn't, they will becomes they'll, he would becomes he'd, and would have becomes would've; also the same word can abbreviate different words, eg it's abbreviates it is or it has, and what's abbreviates is, has and does in for example what's it called?, what's he done? and what's it mean?. The abbreviated word is joined to the one before to make one word.

Some abbreviations, such as would've, are less accepted in written form, and although in speaking more than one word in succession may be abbreviated, this isn't done in writing- eg you can say they'll've gone by now, but must write they'll have.

There are formations where words can't be abbreviated, eg I have to go or She's as good as I am don't become I've to go or She's as good as I'm, and conversely there are formations where abbreviated words are used but their unabbreviated forms aren't, eg Don't you think so? or Won't you go? don't appear as Do not you think so? or Will not you go?.

Will not becomes won't not willn't, as this is easier to say, and am not doesn't become am't as this is hardly easier to say.

Longer words can be abbreviated often for written purposes, eg government can become gov't or boulevard blvd, or Johannesburg Jo'burg written or spoken; o'clock is short for of the clock, no longer used, and also the apostrophe is fixed in some names, eg O'Reilly.

A dot after words can also denote abbreviation, eg Ltd. for limited, i.e. for that is to say (in Latin), Rev. for Reverend or Prof. for Professor but dots are increasing seen as unnecessary, particularly when the first and last letters are still in place, as in Mr, Dr or Sgt.

Possession

For example, Sue's book, or the table's legs. When the possessor's name already ends in an s (or s sound ie z, x, se, ce, ze or xe), the 's is usually retained but can be omitted if it makes the word or phrase awkward to say, ie James's or Julius's but Williams' or especially Moses' or Socrates' where there's already an es type sound at the end of the word; however Chris's and Jesus's are used.

When the possessor is plural the s after the apostrophe is always omitted, eg the tables' legs, boys' game or bosses' room.

The words its, theirs, ours, whose, yours and hers (also his and mine, from hes and mys) are already fixed as possessive and don't have apostrophes: hence it's and who's are always abbreviations. The singular one's, somebody's, nobody else's and also everyone's however take apostrophes, but never s'.

Men, women and children are also plural and to make them possessive, 's is added, eg women's hats. s' is never added, and chilrens, mens and womens also aren't words. However though people is likewise already plural, s' is used in refering to a number of peoples, eg the African peoples' languages- and peoples is a word, as though a plural plural.

An s of course is also added to verbs without an apostrophe to denote third person possession, eg she thinks, he takes or it begins.

Names of companies may or may not use the apostrophe, eg Lloyds Bank doesn't but Sainsbury's does- it may be removed when there's no association with the company's originators and the word becomes just a title; similarly the apostrophe is usually omitted in geographical names, eg Smiths canyon.

Possessors ending in a letter of an s sound that isn't sounded can have an apostrophe without an s after it to indicate that the previous letter should be sounded, eg Descartes' ideas.

In eg for convenience' sake or for goodness' sake the s after the apostrophe can be omitted because although these possessors aren't plural they end with the s sound and are followed by a word beginning with s sound; proper nouns however, eg James's sake, still retain it.

Where there is more than one possessor the apostrophe can go only after the last one mentioned, eg John and Sue's party.

Apostrophes are needed in one hour's work, two weeks' holiday, and five dollars' worth.

Abbreviating the i in is and leaving only the s at the end of the previous word can look superficially like possession, eg My name's Sean.

Apostrophes are usually omitted when letters are removed from the start of a word, eg phone for telephone or net for internet, other than when the shortening is less standard English, eg 'bout for about, or 'less for unless.

The apostrophe is not used to mark plurality, apart from cases like capital S's or number 1's, being clearer than Ss or 1s, even though this would normally denote possession by the S or 1; similarly dot your i's and cross your t's, grade A's or yes's, no's, do's and ex's. Apostrophes can further be used to clarify the endings of unusual words, such as n'th rather than nth.

Attorneys General is an example of a possessor where the plural s is not placed on the end word, complicating placing of apostrophes.

Moreover the apostrophe is distinct from the same 9-shaped punctuation mark for closing a quotation, or marking feet and inches or minutes and seconds of degrees.

The apostrophe has numerous other minor uses.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 10, 2008, 08:44:59 PM
I have a note here of what's being short for what does (eg what's it do?), but I've forgotten the example of it's being short for it does (as well as it is and it has). Can anyone remind me?- I'm sure it exists...
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Danny on April 11, 2008, 12:32:38 AM
Thanks for loving us like that.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 01:57:53 AM
Quote from: Sean on April 10, 2008, 08:31:10 PM
An s of course is also added to verbs without an apostrophe to denote third person possession, eg she thinks, he takes or it begins.

Not sure why you felt a need to do all this; however, the above is not a possessive, but the third person singular conjugation of a present tense verb.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: eyeresist on April 11, 2008, 02:53:57 AM
Now you've mastered the apostrophe, you should investigate inverted comma or quotation mark, the colon, the abbreviating period, and, above all, the comma!
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Renfield on April 11, 2008, 03:18:19 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 11, 2008, 02:53:57 AM
Now you've mastered the apostrophe, you should investigate inverted comma or quotation mark, the colon, the abbreviating period, and, above all, the comma!

Does the semicolon not appeal to you? :(
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: BachQ on April 11, 2008, 06:52:28 AM
Sean, have you ever noticed that GMGers sometimes fail to properly use question marks.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: MN Dave on April 11, 2008, 07:01:20 AM
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 06:52:28 AM
Sean, have you ever noticed that GMGers sometimes fail to properly use question marks.

They don't fail. They forget.

Ahem.  0:)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: маразм1 on April 11, 2008, 07:19:23 AM
there's this project manager, who writes

please set blablabla to it's corresponding blablabla. 

and she does it consistently! 
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: BachQ on April 11, 2008, 07:57:57 AM
Sean, do you like question marks.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: david johnson on April 11, 2008, 08:12:01 AM
apostrophitis is a truly dread disease!

dj
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 08:15:29 AM
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 06:52:28 AM
Sean, have you ever noticed that GMGers sometimes fail to properly use question marks.

And some even split infinitives or use sentence fragments. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Don on April 11, 2008, 08:15:59 AM
Sounds like Sean is ready to teach elementary school grammar.  But are the kids ready for the likes of Sean?
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 07:57:57 AM
Sean, do you like question marks.

I like this?
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Brian on April 11, 2008, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: Renfield on April 11, 2008, 03:18:19 AM
Does the semicolon not appeal to you? :(
After seeing Dave's post about a performance on semicolon instruments in the listening thread, and then this, it's clear we should start a semicolon fan club. It's my favorite piece of punctuation.  8)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: ChamberNut on April 11, 2008, 08:31:29 AM
Sean, you do come up with great threads, and you make us think.

Thinking of your name, I thought how although it is a common name, there are no many variant spellings of 'Sean'.  Obviously, your parents had to chose one.

Other common 'Sean' spellings:

Shawn
Shaun
Shahn
Shon
S'ean (not as commonly seen).

Are there any others you can think of?

Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 08:41:31 AM
Irrelevant fact of the day: the English semicolon is the Greek question mark.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 08:41:31 AM
Irrelevant fact of the day: the English semicolon is the Greek question mark.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot;

8)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 09:45:30 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 08:41:31 AM
Irrelevant fact of the day: the English semicolon is the Greek question mark.

Really; Then what is the Greek semicolon;
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Renfield on April 11, 2008, 10:05:44 AM
Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 09:45:30 AM
Really; Then what is the Greek semicolon;

It's a period, but inserted at the space an apostrophe occupies in English; and in Greek. Hey, I used a semicolon, how felicitous. ;D

(Fan club, for sure. *nods*)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot;

8)

Ουίσκυ Τανγκό Φόξτροτ;
Language, mr. Henning!  ;D

Quote from: Sforzando on April 11, 2008, 09:45:30 AM
Really; Then what is the Greek semicolon;

Quote from: Renfield on April 11, 2008, 10:05:44 AM
It's a period, but inserted at the space an apostrophe occupies in English; and in Greek.

Λάικ δίς΄ γκότ ιτ;
(Like this; got it?)
;D
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: MN Dave on April 11, 2008, 11:28:32 AM
And now: NOUNS!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/E2iLAI0gUW0&hl=en
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: greg on April 11, 2008, 12:56:44 PM
Thats a thoroughly comprehensive essay of Seans and i sure learn'ed alot from it?
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 11, 2008, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: Don on April 11, 2008, 08:15:59 AM
Sounds like Sean is ready to teach elementary school grammar.  But are the kids ready for the likes of Sean?

If they really knew me, half of them would be too unsettled to come to school. It's not that I'm strange you understand, but a lot of things in the world that they've long since accepted are: most of the aversion people uncertain about themselves feel when my silhouette appears on the horizon is based on the challenge my existence represents to the world they've identified with, and nothing personal...

Couldn't resist that.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 11, 2008, 05:13:09 PM
Hi ChamberNut, my (few) friends call me Sean, and GMGers, whatever they are, but my official name is a different version of John. Sean is Irish for John, Iain or Ewan (I think) is Welsh, Ian Scottish, and Jean, Johan, Johannes etc European. I'm three-sixteenths Irish with Irish blood on both sides, and my surname's McHugh. Never been to Ireland though.

By the way the c in McHugh I understand comes from a backwards, c-shaped apostrophe that gradually became a c- the name once was M'Hugh, as per M'Gregor...
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: The new erato on April 11, 2008, 09:59:50 PM
I thought this was a Zappa thread....;

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/150/159247.jpg)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Renfield on April 12, 2008, 12:35:55 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 11:21:01 AM
Λάικ δίς΄ γκότ ιτ;
(Like this; got it?)
;D

Ιντήντ, βέρι ματς λάικ δις˙ έξελλεντ ντεμονστραίησιον, Γουώντερερ! ;D

(Indeed, very much like this; excellent demonstration, Wanderer!)
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Tapio Dmitriyevich on April 13, 2008, 06:31:56 PM
Quote from: Dm on April 11, 2008, 06:52:28 AMSean, have you ever noticed that GMGers sometimes fail to properly use question marks.

Don't such people like exclamation marks!!!
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Ten thumbs on April 15, 2008, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on April 11, 2008, 11:21:01 AM
Language, mr. Henning!  ;D

In England, we now use Mr because M'r is regarded as a truncation, but we omit the apostrophe. Same applies to Mrs, Dr and Sgt etc. but not of course to Rev., Prof. etc. where the last letter is not retained. I assume this practice is not used in the States.
If only people would write wan'o instead of that abomination wanna.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 15, 2008, 03:44:22 PM
Ten, I shall add that to the notes below.

Do Americans use shall ?
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Tapio Dmitriyevich on April 15, 2008, 08:41:32 PM
Just as a sidenote, in germany we're facing the same apostrophe problems (Deppenapostroph (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deppenapostroph)) but also Deppenleerzeichen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deppenleerzeichen), i.e. a replacement of hyphens by spaces, which often gives words a new meaning. Regarding this, the spelling reform added a layer of confusion.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 16, 2008, 04:21:42 AM
Quote from: Sean on April 15, 2008, 03:44:22 PM
Ten, I shall add that to the notes below.

Do Americans use shall ?

Not usually as in your sentence above. The supposed rule is to use "shall" with the first person and "will" with the second of third. But in the US, the most common use of "shall" is to express an offer or suggestion as in constructions like "Shall we go?" or "Shall we have Chinese food tonight?" Otherwise in American usage "will" is more typical, regardless of person, and "shall" to an American ear sounds stilted.
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: BachQ on April 16, 2008, 04:42:37 AM
Quote from: Sforzando on April 16, 2008, 04:21:42 AM
"shall" to an American ear sounds stilted.

We shall make a note of that ..........
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: greg on April 16, 2008, 06:00:03 AM
Quote from: Dm on April 16, 2008, 04:42:37 AM
We shall make a note of that ..........
Upper-class elitist! Die!
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Sean on April 16, 2008, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sforzando on April 16, 2008, 04:21:42 AM
Not usually as in your sentence above. The supposed rule is to use "shall" with the first person and "will" with the second of third. But in the US, the most common use of "shall" is to express an offer or suggestion as in constructions like "Shall we go?" or "Shall we have Chinese food tonight?" Otherwise in American usage "will" is more typical, regardless of person, and "shall" to an American ear sounds stilted.

There's also the formal instruction and legalise like 'The bearer shall pay'...?
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: drogulus on April 16, 2008, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: Sean on April 16, 2008, 03:24:56 PM
There's also the formal instruction and legalise like 'The bearer shall pay'...?

    I thought it was legalee'ze?!.  :D ' ;D (''')
Title: Re: Sean's guide to the apostrophe
Post by: Ten thumbs on April 19, 2008, 12:13:59 PM
To write 'the bearer will pay' is rather presumptuous as he probably doesn't wish to do so. If I say 'I will' then I am stating my definite intention.