Disclaimer: I know as much about opera as I do about nuclear physics, which is less than nothing. Now for my post.
This is my first thread that I believe I have ever started in the Opera section of GMG, but felt compelled to. I more often than not take in the Met's weekly broadcast as our local classical station fortunately carries it. At this time of day I am usually out doing yard work and trying to make our flower beds look more presentable. I have found that whatever the opera is, it usually goes well with what I find to be an enjoyable toil. Then, opera is dropped for me until next week without any further thought. However, this may have changed yesterday with the performance of "Satyagraha". I was captured from the get go, dropped my rake to post it on the listening thread, and got little done in the way of work while outside and listening. I was just wondering if anyone else enjoyed it as much as I did, and eventhough without the moderator I would have no idea what was going on, the music simply blew me away. Who knows, maybe I will look back on this Saturday as the day Mr. Glass truly captured my attention for this genre of music that eventually lead to my conversion that opera may no longer be just a weekly/fleeting listening experience. Would like to hear your thoughts and hope this post was deserving of a thread. If it needs to be attached elsewhere I understand completely as I have no context as to previous threads already begun in this section of GMG.
Here is a NY Times review:
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/14/arts/music/14moth_saty.jpg)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/arts/music/14saty.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
I heard the last scene of the opera on the radio while driving home yesterday afternoon. I found it annoying at first, then I got drawn into it. As always with Glass, you have to redirect your attention from the vertical and horizontal axes, to the fourth axis, which is time.
The vocal writing in the ensembles sounds very taxing, especially with the sopranos sitting on a high A for long stretches. The soprano had a shaky vibrato, which was in itself annoying. I enjoyed the guy singing Gandhi.
Phillip Glass and opera don't seem to go together very well ??? Repetition much?
Quote from: 12tone. on April 20, 2008, 01:37:43 PM
Phillip Glass and opera don't seem to go together very well ??? Repetition much?
Wrong.
There does not seem to be an in-print recording of this Catison. Am I correct here?
Oh dear God.
I rarely turn my car radio on but yesteday (Sat. afternoon) I did as I ran around town. I knew right away it was Philip Glass but not which opera.
The repetition of mindless simplicity was unrelenting.
Oh dear God.
Maybe it would be better seeing it.....maybe.....but then again.......
Quote from: Bogey on April 20, 2008, 04:28:54 PM
There does not seem to be an in-print recording of this Catison. Am I correct here?
I haven't checked in awhile, but it probably is out of print. Something tells me, with the way Glass is, that he will rerelease it soon.
Quote from: Catison on April 20, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
I haven't checked in awhile, but it probably is out of print. Something tells me, with the way Glass is, that he will rerelease it soon.
That would be excellent. Let me know if you hear anything. I wonder if a new recording would be done, or the old one on the CBS label will be re-released. I believe you can get it from Arkive, but it is a cdr. It will be interesting to get Bruce's take after he sees it live in a couple days.
Hi there Bogey. I started listening to music 25 years ago and eventually came to the conlusion that minimalism's all that's left, as I said on a thread once. The form is extremely interesting in its relations with the mind's information processing procedures, making it potentially immensely compelling, one of the best examples being Satyagraha . The recording on Sony fortunately is a fantastic achievement and I've played it countless times: it's terrific in the car, with the sounds enlivened somewhat, being bounced off the walls. The companion operas of Einstein and Akhnaten are not quite as involving and inhabit different sound worlds, but the works from the early 80s here generally have a cult following. You should get hold of Koyannisqqatsi also- or ask Catison, he's keen if I remember...
Quote from: johnQpublic on April 20, 2008, 04:50:51 PM
Oh dear God.
I rarely turn my car radio on but yesteday (Sat. afternoon) I did as I ran around town. I knew right away it was Philip Glass but not which opera.
The repetition of mindless simplicity was unrelenting.
Oh dear God.
Maybe it would be better seeing it.....maybe.....but then again.......
Bruce said one of his friends equated this opera with water torture. ;D I liked it though, but I can see why some would not.
Quote from: Bogey on April 20, 2008, 06:33:20 PM
Bruce said one of his friends equated this opera with water torture. ;D I liked it though, but I can see why some would not.
I did not like it too much, and I spent close to four hours sitting in the balcony of the Met yesterday watching and listening to it. Very thin musically and static dramatically, despite good performances and a staging that showed considerable imagination. That little ascending Phrygian scale at the end must have repeated some 30-40 times, more I think than on the recording - though I'm not in a hurry to give it another spin and count.
I bet he could have cut 4 of those ascending scales and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Maybe 5.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 20, 2008, 06:53:58 PM
I did not like it too much, and I spent close to four hours sitting in the balcony of the Met yesterday watching and listening to it. Very thin musically and static dramatically, despite good performances and a staging that showed considerable imagination. That little ascending Phrygian scale at the end must have repeated some 30-40 times, more I think than on the recording - though I'm not in a hurry to give it another spin and count.
I bet he could have cut 4 of those ascending scales and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Maybe 5.
All I could hear is applause on the radio, but this may be a bit misleading. What was you take of the audiences impression, in general, compared to other performances you may have seen at the Met?
Quote from: Sforzando on April 20, 2008, 06:53:58 PM
I did not like it too much, and I spent close to four hours sitting in the balcony of the Met yesterday watching and listening to it. Very thin musically and static dramatically, despite good performances and a staging that showed considerable imagination. That little ascending Phrygian scale at the end must have repeated some 30-40 times, more I think than on the recording - though I'm not in a hurry to give it another spin and count.
I bet he could have cut 4 of those ascending scales and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Maybe 5.
And here I always wanted 4 more repetitions. Maybe 5.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 20, 2008, 06:53:58 PM
I did not like it too much, and I spent close to four hours sitting in the balcony of the Met yesterday watching and listening to it. Very thin musically and static dramatically, despite good performances and a staging that showed considerable imagination. That little ascending Phrygian scale at the end must have repeated some 30-40 times, more I think than on the recording - though I'm not in a hurry to give it another spin and count.
I bet he could have cut 4 of those ascending scales and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Maybe 5.
Not to single you out here, but this is a total misunderstanding of what the music's about.
Quote from: Bogey on April 20, 2008, 04:28:54 PM
There does not seem to be an in-print recording of this Catison. Am I correct here?
Yes, the CBS recording (which does cut some of the repetitions) is out of print, but it is available from ArchivMusic.com as one of their ArchivCDs (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2975). Unfortunately, I had to make a trip over to Pensacola that afternoon, since all the radio stations along the route have dropped the Met broadcasts. I consoled myself with listening to the CBS recording in the car (I have the original, non-Archiv release).
What's Bogey doing in opera/vocal? We must have an imposter in our midst.
Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2008, 12:52:42 AM
Not to single you out here, but this is a total misunderstanding of what the music's about.
Total, eh? then no doubt you can enlighten me.
One of the funnier comments from that Internet stinkpit, rec.music.opera:
QuoteWanna die of torture???Tune in the Met broadcast of
Saggygrahahahahaha...you could PLOTZ!!!!!
and I thought Bach was dull????
Quote from: Sforzando on April 21, 2008, 03:36:30 AM
Total, eh? then no doubt you can enlighten me.
One of the funnier comments from that Internet stinkpit, rec.music.opera:
I have given up trying to describe to people how to listen to Glass's music. Unfortunately, it is one of those things you either get right away or you don't. It is simply a different listening experience than Verdi or Puccini or Prokofiev, in that there is no 4th dimension. There is no narrative, even musically. It is about being in a moment, and letting yourself experience that moment for everything its worth.
Quote from: Catison on April 21, 2008, 04:52:20 AM
I have given up trying to describe to people how to listen to Glass's music. Unfortunately, it is one of those things you either get right away or you don't. It is simply a different listening experience than Verdi or Puccini or Prokofiev, in that there is no 4th dimension. There is no narrative, even musically. It is about being in a moment, and letting yourself experience that moment for everything its worth.
And perhaps it is entirely possible to get all of that while thinking there's not really much to get.
Quote from: Bogey on April 20, 2008, 07:09:34 PM
All I could hear is applause on the radio, but this may be a bit misleading. What was you take of the audiences impression, in general, compared to other performances you may have seen at the Met?
I have been to the Met well over 100 times and seen at least 50-60 operas there. Some members of the audience were clearly enthusiastic; some were bored; some puzzled. It was not quite sold out, but I didn't have a ticket an hour before curtain and wanted to see if anyone was selling outside the door. I was able to buy a mid-priced seat within minutes, clearly a sign that it was a buyer's market rather than a seller's.
Quote from: Catison on April 21, 2008, 04:52:20 AM
I have given up trying to describe to people how to listen to Glass's music. Unfortunately, it is one of those things you either get right away or you don't.
Yep. I always tell students that either they will immediately accept or reject Glass.
Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2008, 12:52:42 AM
Not to single you out here, but this is a total misunderstanding of what the music's about.
But, in fact, you
did single him out .........
I am seeing Satyagraha tomorrow night--very much looking forward to it--and doing a full review. Will post the link here.
Although I listened to a good chunk of it on Saturday afternoon, I wasn't quite persuaded by the score alone. Also, the production has text embedded in the sets (no subtitling), and seeing some of this text no doubt makes it a more satisfying experience. But I'm keeping an open mind... ;)
Just found this thoughtful post (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/04/ionarts-at-large-satyagraha-at-met.html) on Ionarts by Charles T. Downey who was at the Saturday performance.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on April 21, 2008, 08:33:56 AM
Although I listened to a good chunk of it on Saturday afternoon, I wasn't quite persuaded by the score alone. Also, the production has text embedded in the sets (no subtitling), and seeing some of this text no doubt makes it a more satisfying experience. But I'm keeping an open mind... ;)
The Met website has the text (English only) as a two-page .pdf file at http://www.metoperafamily.org/metupload/Satyagraha_libretto.pdf. Worth reading beforehand, if you haven't already, though this is one case where I don't think knowing exactly what's being sung isn't that important. I mean, Glass wrote in to be performed in Sanskrit before subtitles even existed, so I imagine he wanted the audience to be devoting their attention to the music and the staging. Too bad this isn't an HD theatrecast. I'd love to see it.
Yes, that's very good, and I've tried to do a little more homework, too. And I agree, it's probably not as important to have the text down moment-by-moment. Whatever the outcome, I'm very impressed that the Met has done this piece, and apparently with a production that is true to Glass's intent, e.g., exactly what you said: so the audience focuses on other things. It's obviously a completely different kind of experience than what is usually presented at the Met, and I have to say, "good for them!"
--Bruce
Is there a doctor in the house?....Satyagraha's damnable E Phrygian flute scale is stuck in my head
Quote from: johnQpublic on April 21, 2008, 09:00:51 AM
Is there a doctor in the house?....Satyagraha's damnable E Phrygian flute scale is stuck in my head
Doctor? I'd consider you lucky.
BTW, do you know this is called the Trilogy theme, because is found in all three of Glass's "Portrait Operas"?
Quote from: bhodges on April 21, 2008, 08:57:43 AM
I'm very impressed that the Met has done this piece, and apparently with a production that is true to Glass's intent, e.g., exactly what you said: so the audience focuses on other things.
E.g., where are we going for dinner, how long before I can get up and pee, that person [choose sex of preference] sitting in the row in front of me sure looks cute, I'd better make sure to pay Amex on time, will the Dow go up again Monday, I could use a haircut, etc. Other things.
Quote from: Sforzando on April 21, 2008, 09:59:18 AM
E.g., where are we going for dinner, how long before I can get up and pee, that person [choose sex of preference] sitting in the row in front of me sure looks cute, I'd better make sure to pay Amex on time, will the Dow go up again Monday, I could use a haircut, etc. Other things.
;D ;D ;D
--Bruce
Quote from: Sforzando on April 21, 2008, 09:59:18 AM
that person [choose sex of preference] sitting in the row in front of me sure looks cute
I did notice that April 28th performance will be one those "Connect at the Met" nights. :D
Post when you can Bruce and thanks to others for the feedback here, whether agreed upon or not. All great comments and the wit has been most enjoyed at this end.
Though Justin Davidson is not my ideal music critic (he doesn't "get" Elliott Carter either), this review is pretty close to what I felt:
http://nymag.com/arts/classicaldance/classical/reviews/46188/
Quote from: Bogey on April 22, 2008, 07:23:34 PM
Post when you can Bruce and thanks to others for the feedback here, whether agreed upon or not. All great comments and the wit has been most enjoyed at this end.
yeah yeah.....so about that Seven Steps box..... :P
kidding....last one, I promise ;) ;D
Allan
Davidson's review is pretty fair, and close to my feelings, too. This sentence made me grin:
"Glass forms such great expanses of minimal topography that each scenic stroke is exciting in the way that spotting a gas station in Nebraska is exciting."
I confess that I did enjoy it, and was never bored. The production is spectacular, with some gorgeous scenic designs that are almost trancelike in themselves, and the music combined with the sets and staging makes a beautiful, hypnotic whole. But that said, I really don't have the desire to hear the music again, and certainly wouldn't sit through it multiple times like I did with Jenůfa, Eugene Onegin, Salome or Peter Grimes, or any number of other operas.
--Bruce
Been there done that, huh Bruce :P
I mean, to each his own, but I like more angularity; this music is too consonant for my ears. (The same reason I don't like much medieval chant, for example.) Might be good as soundtrack for meditation, or for observing a gorgeous rock formation in Morocco, but to sit in the hall and listen to it a lot...erm, no.
--Bruce
Maybe it's the production, the froufrou, distracting you from experiencing Satyagraha the way I did years ago in Seattle. There it was the original production, very sparse sets, concentrating on the action. The beating down of the protesters by the police was mimed to perfection. Unfortunately I don't know of any video of the first performance in Stuttgart and the one in Amsterdam - could be the wrong town, but it was in the Netherlands. -
How was the singing by Croft? And the soprano of Miss Schlesen especially in the press room scene?
Lis, I put up a brief blog post here (http://monotonousforest.typepad.com/monotonous_forest/2008/04/listening-in-sa.html). The action here was fine, and the production is stupendous. I enjoyed the evening, and am still thinking about it. I just don't want to hear the score again (which of course is a reaction worth paying attention to).
Croft was superb, and Rachelle Durkin (Schlesen) was also excellent, singing well in a sometimes very high tessitura. All of the cast, and the chorus, too, did an outstanding job.
--Bruce
Quote from: toledobass on April 22, 2008, 07:54:26 PM
yeah yeah.....so about that Seven Steps box..... :P
kidding....last one, I promise ;) ;D
Allan
LOL....a lot.