I found some Brilliant bargains today and a big box from RCA, which I am contemplating..
Thought you would like to know.
9 cd's for 18,99, for some of you, this guy is a legend....Brilliant.
2 cd's 6,99, with the complete symphonies by Berwald. Brilliant. Very good performances.
And then these excellent recordings from Dowland's work, BIS recordings, of high quality. 4 cd's for 12,99
And I am contemplating this RCA box with all the operas from Puccini. 30 cd's for 49,95 is not bad, but how about the recordings?
Does anybody know?
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/8320201?rk=classic&rsk=novelties&page=2
Thanks for the Dowland and Berwald info. Wasn't aware that Dausgaard had done Berwald, do you know which label they are licensed from (I suppose they are not original recordings)?
Quote from: erato on April 22, 2008, 01:06:37 AM
Thanks for the Dowland and Berwald info. Wasn't aware that Dausgaard had done Berwald, do you know which label they are licensed from (I suppose they are not original recordings)?
They come from Dacapo if I am not wrong..... :)
Quote from: erato on April 22, 2008, 01:06:37 AM
Thanks for the Dowland and Berwald info. Wasn't aware that Dausgaard had done Berwald, do you know which label they are licensed from (I suppose they are not original recordings)?
Dausgaard Berwald is among the best. Chandos, 2002 - 2005.
Saw this at JPC de, for just 9,95. Recordings are from 1989, and I have virtually no idea about the quality, but its a bargain....
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 05:26:04 AM
Saw this at JPC de, for just 9,95. Recordings are from 1989, and I have virtually no idea about the quality, but its a bargain....
Not sure whether it's a bargain since the performances are as dull as anything gets. Yeah you get 10 cds but it is a real torture to listen to them. I'd shell out about twice that to get the Pinnock set which is far superior in every respect if price is your concern.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
Not sure whether it's a bargain since the performances are as dull as anything gets. Yeah you get 10 cds but it is a real torture to listen to them. I'd shell out about twice that to get the Pinnock set which is far superior in every respect if price is your concern.
O, you know, what you think dull, may be excitement for others. ;D
But listen for yourself, JPC offers a large sample offer
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6078483?rk=classic&rsk=home
I would definately want to get the Sofronitsky and the Dowland.
Why can't I get Brilliant boxes here in China? *sigh*
Quote from: springrite on May 02, 2008, 06:04:13 AM
Why can't I get Brilliant boxes here in China? *sigh*
Rather interesting question. Can't you order them?
The casts for the Puccini don't looke bad at all:
Le Villi (Domingo, Nucci, Scotto, National PO, Maazel / 1979)
+Edgar (Scotto, Bergonzi, Opera Orchestra New Yor, Queler / 1977)
+Manon Lescaut (Rautio, Dvorsky, Quilico, Roni, Bramante,
La Scala Orchestra, Maazel / 1992)
+La Boheme (Domingo, Caballe, Milnes, Raimondi, Blegen,
London PO, Solti / 1973)
+Tosca (Price, Domingo, Milnes, Grant, New York PO, Mehta / 1972)
+Madama Butterfly (Scotto, Domingo, Murray, Wixell,
Philharmonia Orchestra, Maazel / 1978)
+La Fanciulla del West (Zampieri, Pons, Domingo,
La Scala Orchestra, Maazel / 1991)
+La Rondine (Moffo, Barioni, Sereni, Sciutti, Palma,
RCA Italiana Opera Orchestra, Antonelli / 1966)
+Il Tabarro (Scotto, Domingo, Wixell, New PO, Maazel / 1977)
+Suor Angelica (Scotto, Horne, Cotrubas, New PO, Maazel / 1977)
+Gianni Schicchi (Gobbi, Cotrubas, Domingo, London SO,
Maazel / 1977)
+Turandot (Casolla, Frittoli, Colombara, Allemano, Spina,
Maggio Musicale Fiorentino Orchestra, Mehta / 1998)
I won't get since I can not stand the voice fo Scotto who is in the cast for most of these operas here.
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 05:58:37 AM
But listen for yourself, JPC offers a large sample offer
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6078483?rk=classic&rsk=home
No need for that, I have the box...
About a year ago I bought it on ebay for $10. I listened to the final dozen symphonies or so and they are just not very interesting. They are not BAD as in sloppy and bad playing but just no real verve to the playing. And you get some STIFF competition in this repertoire often at cheap prices so I am not sure whether even at 10 EURO I'd recommend the set.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2008, 06:17:33 AM
No need for that, I have the box...
About a year ago I bought it on ebay for $10. I listened to the final dozen symphonies or so and they are just not very interesting. They are not BAD as in sloppy and bad playing but just no real verve to the playing. And you get some STIFF competition in this repertoire often at cheap prices so I am not sure whether even at 10 EURO I'd recommend the set.
Is that the Documents label? In my experience, the sound on their releases is awful.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2008, 06:17:33 AM
No need for that, I have the box...
About a year ago I bought it on ebay for $10. I listened to the final dozen symphonies or so and they are just not very interesting. They are not BAD as in sloppy and bad playing but just no real verve to the playing. And you get some STIFF competition in this repertoire often at cheap prices so I am not sure whether even at 10 EURO I'd recommend the set.
As boring probably as Jaap ter Linden on Brilliant?
Well, whatever, for the people that cannot afford better sets, and still want to hear the symphonies, a cautious approach is needed then! :)
Quote from: MN Brahms on May 02, 2008, 06:22:08 AM
Is that the Documents label? In my experience, the sound on their releases is awful.
The label is called TIM.
Never heard of that before. :)
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 06:27:22 AM
The label is called TIM.
Never heard of that before. :)
That's the same company as Documents, iirc. I think they change name and identity every couple of years (probably to hide up that they keep releasing the same pirate versions of historical recordings under different identities).
Quote from: edward on May 02, 2008, 06:44:29 AM
That's the same company as Documents, iirc. I think they change name and identity every couple of years (probably to hide up that they keep releasing the same pirate versions of historical recordings under different identities).
Down with them.
Quote from: edward on May 02, 2008, 06:44:29 AM
That's the same company as Documents, iirc. I think they change name and identity every couple of years (probably to hide up that they keep releasing the same pirate versions of historical recordings under different identities).
Thanks, that is good info, so not really a bargain then! :P
People who think rebels need causes are wimps. ;D
Quote from: springrite on May 02, 2008, 07:09:41 AM
People who think rebels need causes are wimps. ;D
Uhuh, uhuh! ;D
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 06:26:32 AM
As boring probably as Jaap ter Linden on Brilliant?
Well, whatever, for the people that cannot afford better sets, and still want to hear the symphonies, a cautious approach is needed then! :)
Jaap ter Linden on Brilliant is actually quite acceptable as a cheap period instrument cut at these works. The Documents set we are talking about is on modern instruments. I still don't like Mozart symphonies on period instruments much. Mozart's works are almost like symphonic incarnations of the opera aria and on period instruments this singing quality doesn't really come through. In any case if I want period instrument Mozart I would probably go with Harnoncourt/Concentus Mus. Wien on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2008, 09:06:36 AM
I still don't like Mozart symphonies on period instruments much. Mozart's works are almost like symphonic incarnations of the opera aria and on period instruments this singing quality doesn't really come through. In any case if I want period instrument Mozart I would probably go with Harnoncourt/Concentus Mus. Wien on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi.
In other words, you want your Mozart symphonies beefed up. I agree that ter Linden and his group can use some beef (or at least Bovril). ;)
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 09:14:08 AM
In other words, you want your Mozart symphonies beefed up. I agree that ter Linden and his group can use some beef (or at least Bovril). ;)
Don't know about beefed up, but modern instruments have a warmth and glow the period instruments lack. In any case Jaap ter Linden's performances sound like if you take a bunch of musicians who used to play with modern instruments and just stick them with a bunch of period instruments. The sound is different but there is nothing revelatory about it. Harnoncourt's is totally different - the accents, and tempo variations, and an incadescent rawness that Jaap ter Linden doesn't remotely resemble.
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 05:26:04 AM
Saw this at JPC de, for just 9,95. Recordings are from 1989, and I have virtually no idea about the quality, but its a bargain....
I have this, and at times it's a satisying listen. There are a couple of goofs (I think they are recording, not performance, related) where the woodwinds sound distorted. But terrific for the price.
Quote from: AndyD. on May 02, 2008, 10:38:52 AM
I have this, and at times it's a satisying listen. There are a couple of goofs (I think they are recording, not performance, related) where the woodwinds sound distorted. But terrific for the price.
One satisfied customer,....good! ;D
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 12:09:10 PM
One satisfied customer,....good! ;D
If y'all are still talking about the Mozart symphonies set, I have it too. Have only listened to a couple of the performances, though, so I can't really judge (though I wasn't that fond of them).
Quote from: Brian on May 02, 2008, 12:14:36 PM
If y'all are still talking about the Mozart symphonies set, I have it too. Have only listened to a couple of the performances, though, so I can't really judge (though I wasn't that fond of them).
Bollocks, another satisfied customer....well almost! ;D ;D
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2008, 10:34:55 AM
Don't know about beefed up, but modern instruments have a warmth and glow the period instruments lack.
I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems. The recordings were suddenly transformed. After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.) Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth ;)) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 09:22:33 PM
I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems. The recordings were suddenly transformed. After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.) Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth ;)) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!
I would be interested to know what kind of equipment you are using, that made the difference, and from whence you came. :)
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 10:46:03 PM
I would be interested to know what kind of equipment you are using, that made the difference, and from whence you came. :)
I remember I told you I have a Marentz CD player at home and Stax 3030 for monitoring purposes. The amp is an Arcam. There is presumably a balance when a warming sounding source goes into something relatively neutral if a bit on the cool side in its presentation. The monitor-type loudspeakers I have are a pair of Castle Isis, which also sounds quite neutral but cannot compare to the Stax for its ability to resolve details. I have the Castle classic sub as well but achieving an "accurate" balance in a sat-sub system is nearly impossible. As you see, it really DOESN'T TAKE MUCH to enjoy period instruments as recorded... I suspect it's the listener's preferences that produce the different opinions we have here.
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 11:04:01 PM
I remember I told you I have a Marentz CD player at home and Stax 3030 for monitoring purposes. The amp is an Arcam. There is presumably a balance when a warming sounding source goes into something relatively neutral if a bit on the cool side in its presentation.
Well my mind is slightly older than yours, so I cannot by necessity remember all, I am sorry.
The Marantz would give you a open and brilliant basis which the somewhat warmer Arcam amplification would balance.
The Stax is the best headphone I know.
Castle Isis, a speaker not know in Holland, but I remember some favourable reviews in Hifi & News and reviews, as well in Grammophone.
But a English based speaker right?
You might want to know, that although my systems go from the very top, downwards into my different listening areas, decreasing in price, but not in quality, I enjoy music on everyone of those systems.
In one of the systems I have a sub, and it took me aeons to get the balance right, but I have, and it is truly integrated into the framework.
And for the record too, I bought period instruments recordings from the very beginning, and have been doing that ever since.
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 11:09:47 PM
Well my mind is slightly older than yours, so I cannot by necessity remember all, I am sorry.
The Marantz would give you a open and brilliant basis which the somewhat warmer Arcam amplification would balance.
The Stax is the best headphone I know.
Stax is a
bargain for those who appreciate its virtues. Clunky looks are its main drawback until one upgrades to their top-of-the-line model, the SR-007 Omega (now MkII).
(http://www.stax.co.jp/JPG/SR007mk2/SR007Mk2-400pix-1.png)
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 11:17:07 PM
Stax is a bargain for those who appreciate its virtues. Clunky looks are its main drawback until one upgrades to their top-of-the-line model, the SR-007 Omega (now MkII).
(http://www.stax.co.jp/JPG/SR007mk2/SR007Mk2-400pix-1.png)
In a matter of weeks, I will try again a few models, the Stax will be the first thing.
Since I have been listening to Stax for almost 20 years now, its only logical that I continue with this model.
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 11:09:47 PM
Castle Isis, a speaker not know in Holland, but I remember some favourable reviews in Hifi & News and reviews, as well in Grammophone.
But a English based speaker right?
Yes, Castle is a British maker of loudspeakers, famous for the real wood finish of their speaker cabinets. (They make cabinets for the more upmarket brand ProAc as well.) The Isis has been out of production for quite a while and I don't presume everybody knows about it. Even an image of it is hard to find :-\
(http://www.audioreview.com/channels/audioreview/images/products/product_120891.jpg)
Quote
You might want to know, that although my systems go from the very top, downwards into my different listening areas, decreasing in price, but not in quality, I enjoy music on everyone of those systems.
In one of the systems I have a sub, and it took me aeons to get the balance right, but I have, and it is truly integrated into the framework.
And for the record too, I bought period instruments recordings from the very beginning, and have been doing that ever since.
Better systems do yield better resolved details, less coloured timbres and less distorted dynamics, but of course they still don't guarantee enjoyment unless the listener is listening. I agree that once one has a good sat-sub balance (I still don't think absolute accuracy is attainable in this context) the music simply sounds more solid and one even hears overtones in the mid- and high ranges that one never had before, despite a sub is supposed only to kick in at the very low frequencies! For those who don't hear the sheen and warmth in period instruments, it could be that the reproduction is lacking in this aspect...provided that the recording itself is not shrill sounding to begin with.
Quote from: Harry on May 02, 2008, 11:20:35 PM
In a matter of weeks, I will try again a few models, the Stax will be the first thing.
Since I have been listening to Stax for almost 20 years now, its only logical that I continue with this model.
I expect to hear raves from you... ;)
I've got that Mozart box with Arigoni and the Italian Philharmonic..10 bucks it cost...unexceptional performances, they sound like run thoughs at best. Nothing inspiring, sound ok at best...
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 09:22:33 PM
I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems. The recordings were suddenly transformed. After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.) Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth ;)) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!
I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the
sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.
Quote from: eyeresist on May 04, 2008, 07:03:05 PM
I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.
This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).
Thanks for the advice, Brian.
Quote from: Brian on May 04, 2008, 07:22:58 PM
This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).
Eek, sorry if you felt that the purchase was a waste :'( The sound on the Norrington, while not being SOTA, I felt increased the punchy, white heat of what was a new stylistic exploration very well. While I am interested in his later takes on the works (I like his Mendelssohn 3 and 4 on Hänssler), they would probably appeal to a different side of me, rather than replace the earlier recordings.
Quote from: eyeresist on May 04, 2008, 07:03:05 PM
I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.
I think that is entirely up to the quality of your equipment our acoustics my friend, for these recordings are made by engineers of great renown, and are not likely to deliver bad recordings. Having myself different sets at home, from very High End to normal consumers stuff, and on all of them the sound is superb.
Quote from: Brian on May 04, 2008, 07:22:58 PM
This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).
We are talking of two entirely different approaches
Brian! :)
To compare them sec is not fair. I heard the new recordings with the SWR and they are good, but not on period instruments. You like a modern orchestra better, I understand that, but please do not bash the EMI recordings, for I think them really very good.
I wonder.... Does Harry work for EMI? ...In some sort of audio engineering capacity?
My main complaint about the Norrington EMI set is the tonal balance which, as I said, is overly hard. This is probably due in part to a lack of natural reverb at Abbey Road, but I think there's something more to it than that, and direct comparison with Kuijken's Haydn bears me out. Tastes may differ, of course.
Quote from: eyeresist on May 07, 2008, 11:43:37 PM
My main complaint about the Norrington EMI set is the tonal balance which, as I said, is overly hard.
This definitely cannot be said about his EMI Brahms symphonies, and I actually don't think his LCP Beethoven
sound is half bad, either. The Kuijken, on the other hand, is recorded more distantly and has a softer acoustic
focus.
Rubinstein's Chopin
11 CDs
Amazon.com
$25!!!
If that's not a bargain, my name is not MN Dave. Well, on this forum anyway...
Shostakovich complete quartets (Fuga Libera), Danel Quartet were going for £5.35p last week.
From Amazon sellers DVDLegacy.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Z26ZDF24L._SS400_.jpg)
So fantastic is this cycle I bought two (one for a friend) ;)
Quote from: eyeresist on May 07, 2008, 11:43:37 PM
I wonder.... Does Harry work for EMI? ...In some sort of audio engineering capacity?
Obviously not. I don't think my good friend Harry has any engineering capacities beyond switching on his stereo set. His often repeated arguments along the lines of "DG sound engineers are the best in the business...EMI has engineers of great renown...so the recordings must sound great" are obviously nonsensical because there are plenty of bad recordings from major labels, as well as recordings which may not be
bad from a technical point of view, but there are many different recording esthetics some of which are highly questionable and there were also recording esthetics trends which have gone out of fashion and now sound very dated and unnatural.
In any case, I still have to agree with Harry here. These Norrington recordings are on the whole very well engineered, with good balance and the right mix of transparency and athmosphere. Abbey Road is actually a little on the reverby side, so I don't understand your complaint at all. And yes, EMI engineers often do achieve very good results there because they are very, very familiar with the location. Which, again, does not mean all the recordings made there have to be great by default.
Quote from: MN Dave on June 12, 2008, 06:35:19 AM
Rubinstein's Chopin
11 CDs
Amazon.com
$25!!!
If that's not a bargain, my name is not MN Dave. Well, on this forum anyway...
Hey, glad to see that. It was $30 before and I've been wondering if the price would go down. ;D Thank you sir!
By the way, I think Harry is self-employed or owns his own firm.
Quote from: Brian on June 12, 2008, 08:18:42 AM
By the way, I think Harry is self-employed or owns his own firm.
I have sent my resume to Harry. I mean, he must need help ordering all that music. 0:)
Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98
Takes time to ship though
http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2
Quote from: opus67 on June 12, 2008, 08:41:53 AM
Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98
Takes time to ship though
http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2
What have you heard about that?
Quote from: opus67 on June 12, 2008, 08:41:53 AM
Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98
Takes time to ship though
http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2
ClassicsToday gives it a 9/8:
Quote
Dating from 1974/75, Peter Rösel's Brahms recordings first appeared on the former East German Eterna label and were released on CD a few decades later in the West via Berlin Classics. Hopefully this space-saving reissue will help attract many listeners to what I consider the most consistently satisfying Brahms cycle on disc from a single pianist (the contents encompass all the original solo piano compositions with opus numbers, but no transcriptions or arrangements). Highlights include a Third sonata played with extraordinary sweep, judicious poetry, and cohesion, a rhythmically vivacious and refreshingly light-fingered First sonata, a Paganini Variations that bristles with character and impressive technical finish, and virile Op. 79 Rhapsodies. In the small pieces making up Op. 76 and Op. 116-119, Rösel allows the music's polyphonic rigor to be heard without sacrificing one iota of lyrical tenderness (Op. 118 No. 2 and Op. 119 No. 1, for instance).
Only a few selections fall below Rösel's general level of excellence. I would have expected the Handel Variations to gain momentum with more dramatic fervor and dynamic contrast than Rösel provides, despite his seamless tempo relationships. And his brisk accounts of the first and fourth Op. 10 Ballades will strike many listeners as too unorthodox and unyielding. These are minor quibbles, of course, and it goes without saying that Rösel's formidable technique transcends Brahms' often unwieldy keyboard writing. The sound is fine if a bit airless and dynamically constricted by today's standards. In sum, this is a first-class Brahms cycle from one of the most underrated pianists in the business.
--Jed Distler
Yes, what Brian said. :)
Quote from: MN Dave on June 12, 2008, 08:33:26 AM
I have sent my resume to Harry. I mean, he must need help ordering all that music. 0:)
;D ;D