I have the feeling that George Gershwin does not enjoy a very high appreciation among the classical music audience. This goes both to the traditional music enthusiasts, who dismiss him as not being a serious composer, and the proponents of new music, many who flat out hate him. I however find him to be a horrendously underappreciated composer, deserving much more popular appeal and academic respect. I find there has been no greater lyrical genius since Schubert, when he composed his late piano sonatas. Take An American in Paris or Porgy and Bess, for instance, and tell me why these works don't have been met with more admiration. What do you think; does Gershwin really possess the genius I see in him, or am I perhaps just guilty here of defending a personal pleasure of mine?
PS. What is the best recording of American in Paris? I really love the Gene Kelly movie version, and I'm looking for a recording just like that, but in original arrangement.
Gershwin is always welcome in my home, and while I might not classify him as a "genius," I think he's a great composer. A few years ago I saw an excellent production of Porgy and Bess at Opera Company of Philadelphia, which just confirmed the beauty of the whole score. And below are two of my favorite Gershwin recordings. Chailly and Cleveland do an electrifying Cuban Overture, but Levine's with Chicago is pretty "wow," too.
Edit: to address your An American in Paris query, both of these below are excellent; it depends on which couplings you prefer. Chailly's has the sparkling Labèque sisters in Rhapsody in Blue, but Levine has the "Catfish Row" suite from Porgy.
The last recording is one I just got a few days ago, with Anne-Marie McDermott and the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, with Justin Brown conducting.
--Bruce
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 15, 2008, 09:27:54 AM
I have the feeling that George Gershwin does not enjoy a very high appreciation among the classical music audience. This goes both to the traditional music enthusiasts, who dismiss him as not being a serious composer, and the proponents of new music, many who flat out hate him.
not Finnissy - his Gershwin arrangements are truly gorgeous, and his most accessible music. They are evidence of a great love of and respect for Gershwin's music.
I enjoy Gershwin's concert works a great deal. He died too soon to really develop his genius to the fullest, and his orchestral works have definite structural flaws, but there's so much to love about what he wrote that it seems trivial to hold those flaws against him. It's easy to overlook the many ingenious orchestral passages in Porgy and Bess (such as the fight music in the first scene) because of the great tunes. The great tunes came naturally to him, but it's a tribute to his discipline that he made the effort to really learn how to compose, and he kept his distinctive musical personality intact. Latter day composer wannabes like Paul McCartney and Billy Joel ought to learn from his example.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 15, 2008, 10:01:28 AM
not Finnissy - his Gershwin arrangements are truly gorgeous, and his most accessible music. They are evidence of a great love of and respect for Gershwin's music.
Right! I have three CDs of Finnissy's Gershwin arrangements...fantastic stuff. Edit: this one below, by pianist Nicolas Hodges (no relation to me ;D), is marvelous.
--Bruce
I bought all of the Nonesuch Gershwin albums when they appeared:
(http://images.ciao.com/iuk/images/products/normal/902/product-5901902.jpg)
(there are 5 I think, I have them all), and think it a pity that this series were terminated!
I can't help but to think that the majority of post-Webernian modernists, including their intellectual supporters, act as if Gershwin doesn't exist. Liking Gershwin is probably what Boulez or Stock-Housen would consider to be a mental defect.
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 15, 2008, 10:55:53 AM
I can't help but to think that the majority of post-Webernian modernists, including their intellectual supporters, act as if Gershwin doesn't exist. Liking Gershwin is probably what Boulez or Stock-Housen would consider to be a mental defect.
They might say the same about Vaughan Williams, or Britten or Shostakovich or any other 'conservative' that you could care to mention... Don't let it bother you!
Well, there are plenty of us who like Gershwin and Boulez and Webern and Stockhausen! I see no reason not to like all of them. :D
--Bruce
Not to be a wet blanket, because I do love Gershwin, but I find that, for me, his concert works are better in memory than in fact. The melodies are so good and stick in the mind so well, that as time goes by, I forget just how clunky the full pieces are in places. Then I go back and listen again, and am reminded. Then, with the melodies in my head, I forget again ...
These thoughts don't apply to the song books, which include some of the best tunes ever written by an American, or anybody. I have been painstaking working my way through them in piano for severl years.
And, for the record, I don't recall any post-Webern modernist ever having a bad thing to say about Gershwin. The only person I can recall making a criticism is Leonard Bernstein who hardly falls into that category. I assume Bernstein had a professional axe to grind, since he tried to fill much the same concert niche as Gershwin did and felt overlooked in comparison.
Quote from: bhodges on May 15, 2008, 11:07:29 AM
Well, there are plenty of us who like Gershwin and Boulez and Webern and Stockhausen! I see no reason not to like all of them. :D
--Bruce
So true. Add Lehar as well. And Dylan, et al.....And I pity those who miss either.
Quote from: bhodges on May 15, 2008, 11:07:29 AM
Well, there are plenty of us who like Gershwin and Boulez and Webern and Stockhausen! I see no reason not to like all of them. :D
--Bruce
Exactly.
No Dylan for me, thanks.
And Dylan ain't no Gershwin, anyway 8)
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 15, 2008, 10:55:53 AM
I can't help but to think that the majority of post-Webernian modernists, including their intellectual supporters, act as if Gershwin doesn't exist. Liking Gershwin is probably what Boulez or Stock-Housen would consider to be a mental defect.
No, no. They figure if Schoenberg liked him enough to play tennis with him, then he must be alright.
Plus Berg and Gershwin were very cordial with each other. Berg welcomed Gershwin into his house, and after Gershwin expressed some trepidation about playing his popular songs after hearing Berg's rendition of the
Lyric Suite, Berg reassured him "it's all music". Plus Gershwin sat next to Elliott Carter at the American premiere of
Wozzeck (according to Joe). There's some modernist creds for you.
Shortly before his death, Gershwin was telling people that his next opera would use the 12-tone system. I can't say whether he would have made good on that promise.
Wife & I are BIG FANS of American popular song from the first half of the 20th century - Gershwin, Kern, Arlen, Rodgers & Hart, and so many others - have the complete Ella Fitzgerald Songbooks, if you like vocals - all, including Gershwin, are excellent.
Plenty of orchestral offerings, many already recommended - an excellent value 2-CD set is on the budget DG label below - CLICK on the image for contents; also, just purchased the Dorati performances w/ the Detroit SO of Porgy & Bess Symphonic Picture & Grand Canyon Suite - a smashing recording!
Some solo piano & small group piano discs that might also be of interest that I've enjoyed for many years, also below (but may be OOP?) - :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31VWGVMXGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Panorama-George-Gershwin/dp/B00004XN6J/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1210880625&sr=1-30) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FV4XA47TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PR5Y0RCXL._SL500_AA130_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BBGXW0JAL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on May 15, 2008, 11:32:41 AMNo, no. They figure if Schoenberg liked him enough to play tennis with him, then he must be alright.
Ironically, this is the main reason why I picked up Gershwin in the first place. Without Schoenberg's relationship to Gershwin, I would probably never have cared much for the latter. I was very suprised myself about how much I came to like Gershwin.
I'm not familiar with Jerome Kern and others. My library has a very poor selection of American music; only one Gershwin musical and probably even no complete musicals by Kern or Berlin.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on May 15, 2008, 11:32:41 AMPlus Gershwin sat next to Elliott Carter at the American premiere of Wozzeck (according to Joe). There's some modernist creds for you.
Carter himself has told this story many times. He was about 21 when Wozzeck premiered in the U.S. and had not written anything yet, but he had not yet fallen under the Boulanger's neoclassical influence, either. Unfortunately, by his own admission, he was very shy and couldn't get up the courage to say anything to Gershwin.
He also attended one of the first performances of the Rhapsody in Blue in 1924, when he was 15, though sources differ whether it was the very first or one of the repeats.
Gershwin is most definitely NOT under appreciated. If anything, he's more popular then he deserves.
Quote from: Joe Barron on May 15, 2008, 02:44:10 PM
Carter himself has told this story many times. He was about 21 when Wozzeck premiered in the U.S. and had not written anything yet, but he had not yet fallen under the Boulanger's neoclassical influence, either. Unfortunately, by his own admission, he was very shy and couldn't get up the courage to say anything to Gershwin.
It's such a great story, I'd want to tell it all the time if it happened to me. Just the idea of seeing Gershwin and Carter together in the same room is cool enough, but then to have them sitting next to each other in a theater watching one of the landmark 20th century operas, complete with
Nelson Eddy in the role of the drum major ... it just puts a smile on my face.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on May 15, 2008, 03:53:29 PMGershwin is most definitely NOT under appreciated. If anything, he's more popular then he deserves.
Nah, he certainly deserves his popularity.
I think Gershwin's piano concerto is terrific, and regret it doesn't receive the respect enjoyed by concertos of Prokofiev, Ravel and Rachmaninov which were influenced to some extent by Gershwin (check out Rach's jazzy performance of the Paganini Rhapsody).
The lack of respect is partly due to structural issues which could have been resolved had G lived to revise his works, and partly due to an academic suspicion of music that is so "pop" in its accessibility and melodism.
His death is possibly the greatest tragedy to occur in American classical music.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on May 15, 2008, 11:32:41 AM
Shortly before his death, Gershwin was telling people that his next opera would use the 12-tone system. I can't say whether he would have made good on that promise.
If that's true, Gershwin might have been the guy to really popularise dodecaphony! (Recall Schonberg's ambition to be whistled by the milkman - Gershwin definitely had a better chance of that.)
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 15, 2008, 09:27:54 AM
I have the feeling that George Gershwin does not enjoy a very high appreciation among the classical music audience. This goes both to the traditional music enthusiasts, who dismiss him as not being a serious composer, and the proponents of new music, many who flat out hate him. I however find him to be a horrendously underappreciated composer, deserving much more popular appeal and academic respect. I find there has been no greater lyrical genius since Schubert, when he composed his late piano sonatas. Take An American in Paris or Porgy and Bess, for instance, and tell me why these works don't have been met with more admiration. What do you think; does Gershwin really possess the genius I see in him, or am I perhaps just guilty here of defending a personal pleasure of mine?
PS. What is the best recording of American in Paris? I really love the Gene Kelly movie version, and I'm looking for a recording just like that, but in original arrangement.
I like Gershwin's music. "Variations on I got Rhthym" is a favourite. I like the Schoenberg painting Avatar.
Quote from: eyeresist on May 15, 2008, 08:06:03 PM
I think Gershwin's piano concerto is terrific, and regret it doesn't receive the respect enjoyed by concertos of Prokofiev, Ravel and Rachmaninov . . . .
Well, you're talking about three composers who knew their craft solid;
Gershwin was still in a 'getting-there' stage, perhaps. The first I listened to the
Concerto in F, I thought it overlong and rambling; when I went back to it months later, though — well, I cannot with candor say that I just straight-out thought it a great piece, but I did think it much better than I first prized it at. Should go back to it again sometime soon . . . .
Not a matter of appreciation or otherwise for me.
He does nothing for me.
Perhaps, he died to young.
Tangentially from another thread: Krystian Zimerman playing Three Preludes
http://www.youtube.com/v/JSDUW8PhK7A
Gershwin doesn't appeal to me either. Perhaps if I enjoyed show tunes and Broadway, I'd enjoy his music more.
Quote from: ChamberNut on May 16, 2008, 09:54:07 AM
Gershwin doesn't appeal to me either. Perhaps if I enjoyed show tunes and Broadway, I'd enjoy his music more.
I've never enjoyed show tunes and anything even mildly related to Broadway, and I was already turned off by those as a child when I heard Bernstein's tunes, but then I saw the American in Paris film at the age of 22 and with Gene Kelly's coreography in it, and I was so impressed that I gave Gershwin a closer look. I didn't become very enthusiastic about G during that time, and he seemed entirely out of place in my repertoire, since I was on a very rigorous diet of Strauss, Schoenberg and Berg. Then I happened to see that Schoenberg regarded him very highly in some aspects, and as I gave him another try, I was swept away by the richness and memorability of his themes which I found to be non-existent in most other "show business" affairs. Perhaps he was just a welcome break away from all the gloominess and despair that characterized my other musical interests. This despair characterizes many 20th century works as well as Schubert, and even Beethoven and Bach are filled moments of despair. Gershwin's music, however, is unique in the aspect that there's not a hint of despair in it. I am fascinated by this property of Gershwin's music, and I believe not even any of the other Broadway composers ever achieved this. Perhaps this property of Gershwin makes him a less than serious composer, but in any case, it also makes me enjoy his music.
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 16, 2008, 11:15:40 AM
Perhaps this property of Gershwin makes him a less than serious composer,
Oh he was a serious composer all right who just happened to write fun music!
Well, I've been enjoying American popular (although much written by immigrant Jews) music & Broadway musicals for many years, and have seen many musicals on Broadway since the late 1960s - for those who seem to not enjoy this music, whether out of hearing & not liking the genre, or from not being familiar w/ the songs or shows, there are certainly plenty of learning experiences.
For example, the numerous films made over the decades, esp. in the '40s & '50s - a good start is Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942) w/ James Cagney & Walter Huston (yes, both as 'song & dance' men; Cagney an Oscar); but there are so many others.
An excellent course from the Teaching Company is Great American Music: Broadway Musicals (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=7318&pc=SaleFine%20Arts%20and%20Music) w/ Bill Messenger, esp. if the course is 'on sale' from the company; this series is best for the pre- & early Broadway eras.
Finally, just a few musical bios (many others exist) of two of the greats of American song:
Richard Rodgers - The Sweetest Sounds (2001) - about both his Hart & Hammerstein years!
Somewhere Over the Rainbow: Harold Arlen (1999) - collaborated w/ so many great lyricists!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513TBJ6XZ7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GQHYXXR8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y3X0ET67L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris are, IMO, authentic American musical masterpieces, brimming with Jazz Age vitality, wit, and color. I've loved them both since childhood. One of the first classical records I bought was Pennario's terrific recording of Rhapsody with the Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra. My favorite these days is probably Levine's stripped down "jazz band" version, though Bernstein's famous take with the pick-up Columbia Symphony is not to be missed, and MTT's with his New World Symphony is pretty saucy, too!
Porgy and Bess, of course, is another near-masterpiece, dripping with beautiful tunes. Someday maybe it will no longer be so controversial and we'll be able to enjoy a first-rate production and recording that really does it justice. Can't have opera singers in it, though--most of them have been trained out of the grittiness and "bad" vocal habits that make for effective jazz singing!
Quote from: DavidRoss on May 17, 2008, 07:47:51 AM
Porgy and Bess, of course, is another near-masterpiece, dripping with beautiful tunes. Someday maybe it will no longer be so controversial and we'll be able to enjoy a first-rate production and recording that really does it justice. Can't have opera singers in it, though--most of them have been trained out of the grittiness and "bad" vocal habits that make for effective jazz singing!
Except that it isn't jazz. Sportin' Life was the only character Gershwin allowed to be cast who had a "musical theater" voice. For the rest he wanted trained voices, though at that time, there were few black singers allowed on the opera stage, so they all had experience singing popular songs. For all the recitative-like and ensemble passages, operatic training is necessary, but Porgy still has to be able to deliver an idiomatic "I got plenty of nothin'".
I'll take Billie Holiday singin' Summertime over Leontyne Price any day of the week (and twice on Sunday).
Billie Holliday would have a hard time getting through the rest of it.
I'm another Gershwin admirer who dislikes "Broadway and showtunes", though I do love the great American songbook.
Quote from: karlhenning on May 16, 2008, 04:20:29 AM
Well, you're talking about three composers who knew their craft solid; Gershwin was still in a 'getting-there' stage, perhaps. The first I listened to the Concerto in F, I thought it overlong and rambling; when I went back to it months later, though — well, I cannot with candor say that I just straight-out thought it a great piece, but I did think it much better than I first prized it at. Should go back to it again sometime soon . . . .
Which performance do you have? I started with Wild/Fiedler, which always seemed unsatistactory to me. Previn with the LSO is a lot more "characteristic", with better sound too. There's also a great "American in Paris" on that disc. The "Rhapsody" is just okay in comparison.
I forgot to ask about Porgy and Bess. I've only heard Rattle's '89 version. How good are other ones?
George Gershwin (1898-1937)
'Somebody Loves Me'
Lyrics by B. MacDonald and B. G. De Sylva. This extraordinary song was composed and published in 1924 and featured that same year in George White's, 'Scandals' - USA
http://www.mediafire.com/?5jwzforyj3w
Every time I listen to Porgy and Bess I am saddened that he died so young... this opera is just so moving and inventive and miles above everything else he wrote (and I'm a Gershwin fan!)
:) Nicolaus Harnoncourts version will soon be out.
Porgy - Jonathan Lemalu
Bess - Isabelle Kabatu
Serena - Angela Renee Simpson
(http://www.sonymusic.ch/images/artists/UEFSSS9LQVQvQ09WRVIxL0pQRzcyRFBJOC9Q/5/1/0/0/88697591762.jpg)
Conductor Nikolaus Harnoncourt, best-known for his historically-informed performances of such classical composers as Beethoven and Haydn, is this week conducting a run of Gershwin's Porgy and Bess for the first time in his career. The concert performances, held at Harnoncourt's Styriarte Festival in Graz, Austria feature an all-black cast headed by Jonathan Lemalu as Porgy and Isabelle Kabatu, replacing an indisposed Measha Brueggergosman, as Bess.
Harnoncourt made his first venture into 20th-century opera in November last year, when he conducted Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress. However he is said to have been fond of Gershwin's all-black opera since his teens. Typically, Harnoncourt is now conducting a version which is faithful to Gershwin's original score.
Jonathan Lemalu in particular has been praised by the local critics for his 'humane' portrayal of the role of Porgy.
The concert performances are taking place every other night until 7 July. For further details, go to www.styriarte.com.
(BBC)
P.
Hmm - sounds interesting! I have the Rattle version and also the Leontyn Price excerpts, but maybe there's room for another one...
My favovourite numbers are probably the introduction and first Summertime, Oh Doctor Jesus (first time) and the the beautiful Oh Dey's so Fresh and Fine - the telling parallels that Gershwin draws between religion and selling fruit is so wonderfully done - not insulting necessarily as this is some of the most heartfelt and wonderful music in the opera.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 16, 2008, 04:20:29 AM
Well, you're talking about three composers who knew their craft solid; Gershwin was still in a 'getting-there' stage, perhaps. The first I listened to the Concerto in F, I thought it overlong and rambling; when I went back to it months later, though — well, I cannot with candor say that I just straight-out thought it a great piece, but I did think it much better than I first prized it at. Should go back to it again sometime soon . . . .
I just had that opportunity as I converted the
Andre Previn/LSO LP to CD, and felt that these works hold up very well. As the record played, I was trying to decide if the
Concerto in F was really the best written work of the three, and almost started a thread on this forum to that effect. Yes, the transitional writing is rather crude, and the sequences too much filler, but the work is a very good 20th century
American composition.
It is very sad that Gershwin died so young, because I can hear amazing progress from
Rhapsody in Blue to
American in Paris, the
Concerto and
Porgy & Bess so that I think had he lived a normal lifespan, he would have become one of the greatest American composers.
He had what many lack: a unique and strong voice.
Even with the works he did leave us, I feel that he is a major composer writing American Classical music.
And listening to his Lullaby for string quartet, I thought that he could have written a beautiful full SQ.
The Piano concerto is the only thing that approaches the inspiration of Porgy and Bess for me... I love the songs of course, but they're sort of in a difficult category...
I have just discovered Gershwin's 'Second Rhapsody' which came with BBC Music Magazine this month. I'm amazed that I never heard this work before - what a great piece, it really made me smile. Actually I prefer it to 'Rhapsody in Blue', probably because the latter has become rather jaded for me through over-familiarity. Gershwin's 'Variations on I've got Rhythm' is my other favourite Gershwin work alongside 'An American in Paris'.
I'm very positive on Gershwin, but he's not one of my all great heroes.
I don't think I'll ever tire of Rhapsody in Blue, but I'm curious about the second rhapsody.
I'm pretty burned out on An American in Paris. I find the opening annoying now, but like some of the directions it takes later on.
I LOVE parts of the Concerto in F, but it strikes me that there seems to be too many ideas, and it is easy to get lost. But then again, I could say the same about Bax or Scriabin-- both of whom I enjoy, and neither of them had the talent for a melodic hook.
My absolute favorite work of Gershwin's is the Prelude #2, and I've been known to put that on infinite repeat. One of the best uses of blues elements in the "classical" tradition, and also something that fits a playlist that includes the piano works of Debussy, Ravel and Satie.
Also, FWIW, I compulsively collect covers (particularly jazz and blues versions), of "Summertime" and "Ain't Necessarily So".
It might be plausible to claim that a composer is not well known, and under-appreciation stems from lack of familiarity on the part of the public. A composers works may fall out of favor because he is out of sync with the styles of his or her own era and await rediscovery at a later time.
I don't think this can plausibly be claimed for Gershwin. His works are well known, and has had ample opportunity to win appreciation. I know many enjoy his music, but I for one, find his work uninteresting.
Although Gershwin was and still is a personal favorite, I tend to agree that to the extent he is "underappreciated" (wrong word) it is because his classical composing is not of the same level as his contemporaries.
His songs and show scores are some of the best, but he did not have the same kind of training that most classical composers benefit from and was having to play catch up and sadly ran out of time. I think he would have finally arrived since each piece he wrote seemed to be stronger and better put together then the previous works - and this, for me, is the tragedy, that there seemed to be so much unrealized potential in Gershwin, despite the very many fantastic scores he left behind, there seemed to be even greater work still to come.
I think his natural ability was of the highest order, but he needed to develop his craft of composition, and this is why I think his works, as strong as they are and containing wonderful themes and sections, exhibit real weaknesses of craft.
He's popular within the world of classical music considering that his output as a classical composer was small. In terms of overall achievement - meaning including his broadway stuff he's even more highly regarded though. Dozens of his tunes have become standards that continue to be sung and played to this day and no doubt for many more decades to come. Everyone would settle for a legacy like his.
Gershwin's best is in his "show" music. And there's nothing secondrate in that. His musicals are simply wonderful, and displays a genius for tunes, orchestration and fun second to none. I can think of tons of more serious stuff I could easily do without compared to Gershwins more lightheaded music. Along with particularly Rodgers and Kern (I think Showboat about the best music ever penned in the US) the Americans have a powerful troika of first rate, unmissable, composers.
Quote from: jowcol on April 12, 2010, 07:03:24 AM
I'm very positive on Gershwin, but he's not one of my all great heroes.
I don't think I'll ever tire of Rhapsody in Blue, but I'm curious about the second rhapsody.
I'm pretty burned out on An American in Paris. I find the opening annoying now, but like some of the directions it takes later on.
I LOVE parts of the Concerto in F, but it strikes me that there seems to be too many ideas, and it is easy to get lost. But then again, I could say the same about Bax or Scriabin-- both of whom I enjoy, and neither of them had the talent for a melodic hook.
My absolute favorite work of Gershwin's is the Prelude #2, and I've been known to put that on infinite repeat. One of the best uses of blues elements in the "classical" tradition, and also something that fits a playlist that includes the piano works of Debussy, Ravel and Satie.
Also, FWIW, I compulsively collect covers (particularly jazz and blues versions), of "Summertime" and "Ain't Necessarily So".
Interesting, I must look out for Prelude #2.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 13, 2010, 03:54:02 AM
Interesting, I must look out for Prelude #2.
The Oscar Levant version may be definitive, and the sound quality isn't too bad.
There is a pretty good performance of the preludes on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4yLMxaqWIM&feature=related
Prelude #2 starts around the 1:56 mark.
Version with Heifetz on violin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz5bxLspFRA&feature=related ( I love the double-stopping)
I also recall that when PBS (in the US) had their Gershwin Centennial program, they used the haunting figure at the beginning of Prelude #2 to lead into Summertime, and I really loved it.
oops. One more link. This is the Gil Evans-Miles Davis arrangement of Prayer (oh Doctor Jesus) from their Porgy and Bess album which I find really stunning. There is a great sour dryness an bluesiness to it that just kills me, particularly at the climax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7ftQBv6R8
(Although, I were to run out and buy my first Miles Davis/Gil Evans album, it would need to be Sketches of Spain, but their Porgy and Bess is quite good.)
Quote from: jowcol on April 13, 2010, 04:55:51 AM
The Oscar Levant version may be definitive, and the sound quality isn't too bad.
There is a pretty good performance of the preludes on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4yLMxaqWIM&feature=related
Prelude #2 starts around the 1:56 mark.
Version with Heifetz on violin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz5bxLspFRA&feature=related ( I love the double-stopping)
I also recall that when PBS (in the US) had their Gershwin Centennial program, they used the haunting figure at the beginning of Prelude #2 to lead into Summertime, and I really loved it.
Thanks ever so much John. A girl at the school where I work gave a fantastic arrangement of Summertime on the piano a few weeks ago - best thing I have heard there.
PS Just watched it - the music was immediately familiar to me. Fine performance from Lars Roos.
Quote from: erato on April 12, 2010, 10:32:46 PM
I think Showboat about the best music ever penned in the US.
Showboat is DEFINITELY a masterpiece in my opinion.
The Wikipedia article has some interesting bits: Rhapsody in Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_in_Blue)
Bax had no melodic hook? I can hum 'Winter Legends' all the way through. Beats ABBA any day.
Knowing me and knowing you . . . .
....there is nothing we can do!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 07, 2011, 07:54:45 AM
Knowing me and knowing you . . . .
This weirded me out at first - I thought ABBA was a reference to musical structure!
I don't think Gershwin is underappreciated. I thought he was well-known and a composer pretty much anybody familiar with 20th Century music knew? ??? Anyway, I just think the notion that he's somehow undervalued is completely false because there are so many other composers who are more deserving of this title. Gershwin's music is well-known and well-loved by many.
How is Gershwin underrated? He is probably the most famous American composer in Europe, and is still a household name in US. He might actually be considerably OVERrated if we realize that Gershwin belonged to a generation of composers like Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Britten, Stravinsky, Khachaturian, Copland, Bartok... Every one of these composers (and many others) were incomparably greater than Gershwin, but some are less known to general audiences.
His melodies are haunting and beautiful, and I love most of his works. I just don't see how he needs more recognition than he already has.
Quote from: Sandra on July 07, 2011, 11:27:30 PM
How is Gershwin underrated? He is probably the most famous American composer in Europe, and is still a household name in US. He might actually be considerably OVERrated if we realize that Gershwin belonged to a generation of composers like Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Britten, Stravinsky, Khachaturian, Copland, Bartok... Every one of these composers (and many others) were incomparably greater than Gershwin, but some are less known to general audiences.
His melodies are haunting and beautiful, and I love most of his works. I just don't see how he needs more recognition than he already has.
I think on the 'classical' side, he is under-rated. That is, he is not taken as seriously BECAUSE he did all that other stuff (at which he was great). And perhaps over-rated on the pop/broadway/other side. That lands me firmly of the camp of over- and under- rated. I don't know how how I got myself here, and I haven't a clue how to get myself out. Guess I'll just have to go listen to some Gershwin...
Quote from: Sandra on July 07, 2011, 11:27:30 PM
How is Gershwin underrated? He is probably the most famous American composer in Europe, and is still a household name in US. He might actually be considerably OVERrated if we realize that Gershwin belonged to a generation of composers like Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Britten, Stravinsky, Khachaturian, Copland, Bartok... Every one of these composers (and many others) were incomparably greater than Gershwin, but some are less known to general audiences.
His melodies are haunting and beautiful, and I love most of his works. I just don't see how he needs more recognition than he already has.
What ukrneal said: pops audiences love Gershwin, and people flock to see Rhapsody in Blue, but the more serious listeners on this board might be too busy listening to Pettersson and Mahler to put "Of Thee I Sing" on the CD player...
If somebody is saying Gershwin is underrated, what they mean is he's at the head of the kids' table but they want him to get a seat at the big boys' table. ;D :)
I think this discussion underscores the (apparent) fact that, if this is the only Gershwin thread (it was where the very helpful Composer Index pointed me), then we ought to re-title it . . . .
Itching now to read the whole book, which I browsed a bit in a shop three-ish years ago:Quote. . . Gershwin had more exposure to Schoenberg later in the year, when on November 1, 1923, he collaborated with Eva Gauthier on what was billed as a "Recital of Ancient and Modern Music for Voice" at New York's Aeolian Hall. In addition to a set of popular songs for which Gershwin played the piano, Gauthier, accompanied by pianist Max Jaffe, performed a sophisticated mix of Bellini, Perucchini, Purcell, Byrd, Bartók, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Bliss, Milhaud, Maurice Delage (a student of Ravel's), and Swan Hennessy (an Irish American composer living in Paris). The Schoenberg selection consisted of the American première of "Song of the Wood Dove" from Gurrelieder, arranged for voice and piano by Alban Berg. Gershwin had the opportunity to hear some of this and other music while collaborating with Gauthier on subsequent concerts in Boston (1924), London (1925), and Derby, Connecticut (1926).
Gershwin witnessed not only the American première of Pierrot in 1923, but very likely another landmark event in New York's musical life: the city's first hearing of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring on January 31, 1924, with Pierre Monteux and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Assuming he attended the concert, Gershwin presumably would have recognized some shared aims and ideals, as did early listeners to the Rhapsody in Blue—unveiled a mere two weeks after the Stravinsky première. In any case, the work, which "exercised a very great influence on him," as he told Merle Armitage, became one of his favorite compositions.
(
George Gershwin: His Life and Work, Howard Pollack, University of California Press, 2007, p.38)
Of course, I ought to have started with the immediately preceding paragraph:Quote. . . Gershwin also preserved the program for a February 4, 1923, concert sponsored by New York's International Composers' Guild that featured the American première of Arnold Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire (1912) along with Charles Koechlin's Sonata for Two Flutes, Erik Satie's Sports et divertissements, and excerpts from Darius Milhaud's Saudades do Brazil. Although by this point Pierrot had been around for a while, worldwide performances of the work in the early 1920s, states David Metzer, "served as a lightning rod for the growing and vehement dispute surrounding new music." Considering that Gershwin saved the program, and remembering, too, the deep respect Hambitzer and Kilenyi held for Schoenberg, one can easily guess on which side he came down.
(
George Gershwin: His Life and Work, Howard Pollack, University of California Press, 2007, pp.37-38)
Really enjoyed the Levine cd, great, jazzy performances! :)
Listening to the the 'Catfish Row' suite has given me the deperate desire to hear all of Porgy and Bess, sounds absolutely great!! 8)
Such a shame he died so young, could have written so so much more!
Hard to believe that this is just the second post in a thread devoted to George Gershwin.
I have been listening to this 2-CD recording of Gershwin by Joanna MacGregor that is (IMO) very fine.
[asin]B004W7GP7Y[/asin]
Her Rhapsody in Blue is the "jazz band" version, which, to my ears, is preferable. Also included is the Concerto in F, and many of his song arrangements, all played very nicely by Ms MacGregor.
Quote from: sanantonio on February 04, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
Hard to believe that this is just the second post in a thread devoted to George Gershwin.
I have been listening to this 2-CD recording of Gershwin by Joanna MacGregor that is (IMO) very fine.
[asin]B004W7GP7Y[/asin]
Her Rhapsody in Blue is the "jazz band" version, which, to my ears, is preferable. Also included is the Concerto in F, and many of his song arrangements, all played very nicely by Ms MacGregor.
I think you can attribute that more to Rob Newman than to Gershwin. I'm a big Gershwin fan, I think he was the finest American composer. No favorite recording to rec though; I like 'em all. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 04, 2015, 10:27:37 AM
I think you can attribute that more to Rob Newman than to Gershwin. I'm a big Gershwin fan, I think he was the finest American composer. No favorite recording to rec though; I like 'em all. :)
8)
If you haven't heard her performance of RIP, by all means I think any Gershwin fan should. And the Concerto is also enjoyable.
Quote from: sanantonio on February 04, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
Hard to believe that this is just the second post in a thread devoted to George Gershwin.
Even a good message suffers at the hand of a crank messenger (viz. the OP).
So, I thank you for redeeming the thread! And yes, you're right, it's time I listened to this:
Gershwin is our 'family composer', equally suiting the tastes of two generations and both genders. 'Walking the Dog' is my daughter's favourite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_the_Dog_%28Gershwin%29 :)
http://youtu.be/t67SdkYubs4 (http://youtu.be/t67SdkYubs4)
When You Want 'em, You Can't Get 'em, When You've Got 'em, You Don't Want 'em
http://www.youtube.com/v/GqL_Yn3FqWo
His Lieder are darned fine too:
http://youtu.be/IRSmEMc8vvA
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 04, 2015, 11:31:37 AM
His Lieder are darned fine too:
http://youtu.be/IRSmEMc8vvA
8)
Agreed.
I wore out my copy of the
Ella Fitzgerald Gershwin Songbook (back then it was a 2-LP vinyl set); since replaced by the 3-CD version. Other sets by
Sarah Vaughan and
Chris Connor are worth hearing too.
A while back I was collecting the Broadway shows that were put out by the Smithsonian and the Gershwin Family. These recordings reconstructed the shows with their original scores and orchestrations. Such as ...
[asin]B000005J3C[/asin]
Variations on 'I've got Rhythm' and 'An American in Paris' are my favourites.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2015, 11:47:34 AM
Variations on 'I've got Rhythm' and 'An American in Paris' are my favourites.
These are not those, but other surprisingly good things:
[asin]B000009OP5[/asin]
The stuff from
Porgy and Bess is especially nice.
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 04, 2015, 12:17:23 PM
These are not those, but other surprisingly good things:
[asin]B000009OP5[/asin]
The stuff from Porgy and Bess is especially nice.
8)
Very much agree about Porgy and Bess.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2015, 11:47:34 AM
Variations on 'I've got Rhythm' and 'An American in Paris' are my favourites.
Concerto in F and
An American in Paris are my favorites.
Cuban Overture, too. This is a pathetic thread for such a great composer. I'm guessing it is probably because that historical eraser guy started it.
NEWMAN!(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/kevdog3/Jerry-Seinfeld-and-Newman_zps12543253.jpg)
Quote from: EigenUser on February 04, 2015, 01:53:48 PM
Concerto in F and An American in Paris are my favorites. Cuban Overture, too. This is a pathetic thread for such a great composer. I'm guessing it is probably because that historical eraser guy started it.
NEWMAN!
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/kevdog3/Jerry-Seinfeld-and-Newman_zps12543253.jpg)
:D Yes, I think so too. Although I thought we already had another Gershwin thread but apparently not. I agree about
Cuban Overture, always has been a favorite. :)
8)
I believe that his songs are his true masterpieces. Too many to name but "The Man I Love" "How Long has this been Going On," "Someone to Watch Over Me" are among my favorites. My dad was a TV and film composer and his absolute music is way too Gershwin-influenced (he used to say mine was too Copland influenced. :D..), so I have daddy issues when it comes to GW. But without a doubt I can state that "An American in Paris" is my all-time Gershwin symphonic fav. Rhapsody......too many blues conventions. Cuban Overture is great. I need to re-listen to it. My sacreligeous opinion is that as he distanced himself from the blues, his music became more beautiful and exciting.
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 05, 2015, 05:53:01 PM
I believe that his songs are his true masterpieces. Too many to name but "The Man I Love" "How Long has this been Going On," "Someone to Watch Over Me" are among my favorites. My dad was a TV and film composer and his absolute music is way too Gershwin-influenced (he used to say mine was too Copland influenced. :D..), so I have daddy issues when it comes to GW. But without a doubt I can state that "An American in Paris" is my all-time Gershwin symphonic fav. Rhapsody......too many blues conventions. Cuban Overture is great. I need to re-listen to it. My sacreligeous opinion is that as he distanced himself from the blues, his music became more beautiful and exciting.
Interesting perspective(s), thanks!
The Three Preludes have been a favorite of mine. The original solo piano is probably how I usually prefer to hear them played, but there have been many arrangements, the clarinet arrangements are very nice.
An all round great recording with the preludes arranged for clarinet and chamber orchestra:
[asin]B000003FJP[/asin]
For me, Porgy & Bess is his masterpiece. For years the Rattle recording was the one I went to, but here lately I've been enjoying Harnoncourt's. For something non-operatic from out the thousands of jazz interpretations, the nearly complete version with Mel Torme is well worth the investment in time.
[asin]B000AAIXQS[/asin]
Pulled the trigger on this:
[asin]B000SSPKZ4[/asin]
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2015, 11:14:18 AM
Pulled the trigger on this:
[asin]B000SSPKZ4[/asin]
A very good recording, which I have enjoyed for a long time.
I am about to buy this, the only DVD of a live stage production
[asin]B00IAV08DK[/asin]
Looks to be very good.
Quote from: sanantonio on April 29, 2015, 11:24:15 AM
I am about to buy this, the only DVD of a live stage production
Wow, that surprises me.
I am thinking of this one, which is a studio recreation of the 1986-87 Glyndebourne Festival Opera production (I'm a Trevor Nunn fan):
[asin]B00005LIN0[/asin]
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2015, 11:49:13 AM
I am thinking of this one, which is a studio recreation of the 1986-87 Glyndebourne Festival Opera production (I'm a Trevor Nunn fan):
[asin]B00005LIN0[/asin]
Right, done in a studio; not a true theater production performance.
I searched the Met and there is no production there. Which is a shame: the most important America opera company should really have a repertory production of the greatest American opera.
"Not to dismiss Gershwin, but Gershwin is the chip; Ellington was the block." ―Joni Mitchell
Quote from: sanantonio on February 06, 2015, 05:06:17 AM
For me, Porgy & Bess is his masterpiece. For years the Rattle recording was the one I went to, but here lately I've been enjoying Harnoncourt's. For something non-operatic from out the thousands of jazz interpretations, the nearly complete version with Mel Torme is well worth the investment in time.
[asin]B000AAIXQS[/asin]
I've meant to check this out for quite a while, and this month is the time. I'm almost done watching for the first time the Trevor Nunn production, which uses the Rattle as its soundtrack, and the music is magnificent (the cinematography and staging are magnificent, too—I meant no signification there 8) ) Fully agree that this is the masterpiece, which perforce underscores the catastrophe of the composer's early death.
For sure his death at 37 is a huge loss; his composing just got better and better and future works would have been something to experience.
I received but have not viewed the San Francisco Opera DVD of Porgy. But plan to do so this week. Be interested in your thoughts about the jazz version; don't let Mel Torme scare you off ;D he was actually a very good jazz singer.
8)
Quote from: sanantonio on May 06, 2015, 04:13:29 AM
For sure his death at 37 is a huge loss; his composing just got better and better and future works would have been something to experience.
I received but have not viewed the San Francisco Opera DVD of Porgy. But plan to do so this week. Be interested in your thoughts about the jazz version; don't let Mel Torme scare you off ;D he was actually a very good jazz singer.
8)
I've pulled the trigger on that one. Will report! (And my brother's favorite version of "Mountain Greenery" is by Mel Tormé :) )
Coincidentally just bought this:
[asin]B00004UHPL[/asin]
I especially like the Variations on I got Rhythm.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2015, 11:49:13 AM
I am thinking of this one, which is a studio recreation of the 1986-87 Glyndebourne Festival Opera production (I'm a Trevor Nunn fan):
[asin]B00005LIN0[/asin]
Well, I've watched it, and so this was my first absorption of the opera in its entirety. What a magnificent piece!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2015, 11:14:18 AM
Pulled the trigger on this:
[asin]B000SSPKZ4[/asin]
I've started to listen to this one, it is no reflection on its merits that I took the easy route of watching the DVD straight through, first :)
I would reply to this thread if I had the faintest idea how "galligaskins" is a suitable reflection on Gershwin.
An upcoming critical edition of "American in Paris" argues (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/theater/have-we-been-playing-gershwin-wrong-for-70-years.html) that the taxi cab horns in the piece have been tuned incorrectly for 70 years. Scholars are suggesting that evidence from the score has been misinterpreted, and the horns were supposed to be even more dissonant (and a bit cartoony). There is a YouTube clip in the article demonstrating how the horns sounded in a recording supervised by Gershwin himself.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2016, 08:09:00 AM
An upcoming critical edition of "American in Paris" argues (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/theater/have-we-been-playing-gershwin-wrong-for-70-years.html) that the taxi cab horns in the piece have been tuned incorrectly for 70 years. Scholars are suggesting that evidence from the score has been misinterpreted, and the horns were supposed to be even more dissonant (and a bit cartoony). There is a YouTube clip in the article demonstrating how the horns sounded in a recording supervised by Gershwin himself.
This is very interesting, if not hilarious. I played this before in orchestra in college.
Sounds like a case for the guy who started this thread! :D
Dig it, cat!
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Quote from: The new erato on May 15, 2008, 10:39:13 AM
I bought all of the Nonesuch Gershwin albums when they appeared:
(http://images.ciao.com/iuk/images/products/normal/902/product-5901902.jpg)
(there are 5 I think, I have them all), and think it a pity that this series were terminated!
Your image does not display for me, but are you talking about the Broadway shows? I also bought them all but haven't kept up with the series in a whle. Sorry to hear of its demise.
Thread duty:
The best
Rhapsody in Blue for my money is this one done with the original jazz band version by Ferde Grofe, and very well done, too.
Gershwin By Grofe: Original Orchestrations & Arrangements(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/714buw1O%2B8L._SY355_.jpg)
Quote from: sanantonio on February 24, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
Your image does not display for me, but are you talking about the Broadway shows? I also bought them all but haven't kept up with the series in a whle. Sorry to hear of its demise.
Thread duty:
The best Rhapsody in Blue for my money is this one done with the original jazz band version by Ferde Grofe, and very well done, too.
Gershwin By Grofe: Original Orchestrations & Arrangements
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/714buw1O%2B8L._SY355_.jpg)
100% agree. My favorite Gershwin CD ever, one of my favorite anything CDs ever.
I've probably shared this before . . . in the rather-too-much-like-fanzine-writing bio I am presently reading, the author reports that this is the first song Gershwin published, in 1916. So I think it means something, that the composer "owned" it sufficiently to make a piano roll of it later.
http://www.youtube.com/v/GqL_Yn3FqWo
Quote from: Brian on February 24, 2017, 06:28:46 AM
100% agree. My favorite Gershwin CD ever, one of my favorite anything CDs ever.
Very fine indeed, but I tend to think that GG deserves to be heard in complete muscals, hence my preference for the Nonesuch series.
In his Omnibus show on The American Musical Comedy, Lenny concludes with a comparison between the climactic scenes in The Mikado and Of Thee I Sing, respectively, to underscore the sophistication in (and/or benefit drawn from earlier examples by) the latter. And lo! this morning I learn that Of Thee I Sing was the first musical to win a Pulitzer Prize for Drama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Thee_I_Sing).
Quote from: The new erato on February 28, 2017, 04:13:34 AM
Very fine indeed, but I tend to think that GG deserves to be heard in complete muscals, hence my preference for the Nonesuch series.
Except that
Rhapsody in Blue did not originate in a musical, and the jazz band original is much better, imo, than the orchestral arrangement. However, I do completely agree with you about the Nonesuch series. Having the complete musicals gives a true version of the works a/o/t hearing just the hit songs or highlights. But, none of his musicals come close to
Porgy & Bess, which I consider 'The Great American Opera'.
Gershwin's death at 38 is a tragic loss since he was just hitting his stride with more serious works when his life was cut short.
Quote from: Brian on February 24, 2017, 06:28:46 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 24, 2017, 04:23:16 AM
Thread duty:
The best Rhapsody in Blue for my money is this one done with the original jazz band version by Ferde Grofe, and very well done, too.
Gershwin By Grofe: Original Orchestrations & Arrangements
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/714buw1O%2B8L._SY355_.jpg)
100% agree. My favorite Gershwin CD ever, one of my favorite anything CDs ever.
Okay, okay! I yield! I have placed my order.
8)
I should say that, years ago (now) I had became firmly jaded against the Rhapsody in Blue. I could not with any hope of accuracy report why. Furthermore, while as a general thing my feeling was that, if I never heard the piece again, that would be just fine by me—nevertheless, I really enjoyed its use in the soundtrack of Woody Allen's Manhattan. Enjoyed it without snickering, genuine, pure enjoyment. But otherwise, instant channel-switch.
The recording which snapped me out of it, and which remains one of the my favorite versions of the piece, is Marcus Roberts' jazz combo version:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Xrs135MAvJc
And, of course (because I am an unreconstructable fan of The Bobs), the Rhapsody in Bob:
http://www.youtube.com/v/VVVikXKqdTI
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 28, 2017, 09:33:42 AM
I should say that, years ago (now) I had became firmly jaded against the Rhapsody in Blue. The recording which snapped me out of it, and which remains one of the my favorite versions of the piece, is Marcus Roberts' jazz combo version:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Xrs135MAvJc
That Marcus Roberts version is an amazing arrangment, and recording. Thanks for the reminder.
Along with the jazz band version I also enjoy the
piano roll. The only version I do not listen to anymore is the orchestral one.
This weekend at the Concertgebouw in Brugge/Bruges: Gershwin + van Immerseel.
http://www.concertgebouw.be/nl/event/detail/2095/Anima_Eterna_Brugge
van Immerseel performes the critical University of Michigan - scores edition. Incl. the new set of car claxons.
Recently, it's come to light that George Gershwin possibly meant different pitches for the taxi horns he indicated in his renowned piece, "An American in Paris." The original score notated a circled A B C and D next to the taxi horn notes, but after some further investigation, photos, and a recording from the original performance from 1929, it seems those were just labels for the horns (i.e., horn A, not the note A). Listening to the recording from 1929, one can discern that the pitches are a lower A, higher D, Ab, and Bb. It provides more dissonance than the A B C D set that has been used by countless orchestras over the decades. Here at LAPR we decided to play around a bit and put together this set with our existing horns. Love that honking A. Whether musical directors decide to keep things the same, or go with this new (old) information is totally up to them, but we wanted to show you what these re-discovered pitches sound like with our taxi horns.
http://www.music.umich.edu/ami/gershwin/?page_id=59
https://www.youtube.com/v/8cLMTYYzs6s
On the program:
Catfish Row - Suite from Porgy and Bess (1936)
Rhapsody in Blue (1924)
An American in Paris (1928)
Four Songs
- The man I love (1924 - 27)
- I got Rhythm (1930)
- My Man's Gone Now (1935)
- By Strauss (1936)
Performers:
Jos Van Immerseel
Anima Eterna Brugge:
Claron McFadden: sopraan
Bart Van Caenegem: piano Steinway & Sons, 1908
I remember reading a story about Gershwin and George Antheil roaming through Paris in a search for diffently tuned taxi horns.
Quote from: Christo on March 10, 2017, 12:55:51 AM
I remember reading a story about Gershwin and George Antheil roaming through Paris in a search for diffently tuned taxi horns.
That's one example of why I resent this "kiddie bio" of Gershwin. Repeated mention of shopping for taxi horns, no hint of Antheil.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I've only recently realised how much of Rhapsody in Blue is taken up with extended piano cadenzi. Several times, the orchestra goes a good 3-4 minutes without playing a single note. And this is only a 16-minute piece.
The flip side is, now you see how readily it lends itself to a piano solo adaptation 8)
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 12, 2017, 08:34:13 AM
The flip side is, now you see how readily it lends itself to a piano solo adaptation 8)
Yep. I believe Gershwin arranged it himself for both solo piano and two pianos.
Wasn't going to mention, but on Sunday the 16th last month in an Edinburgh pub I sat in and (as usual) played the changes - I Got Rhythm/Gershwin - but this time because oor Karl knows where it's at. It might have sounded like I was wearing my boxing gloves but hell, I was sincere.
*** bump ***
I found this quote in the new biography of Gershwin I just finished reading:
A spoken memorial broadcast from Los Angeles the day after George died included this tribute from Arnold Schoenberg: "Music to him was the air he breathed, the food which nourished him, the drink that refreshed him. Music was what made him feel, and music was the feeling he expressed. Directness of this kind is given only to great men, and there is no doubt that he was a great composer. What he achieved was not only to the benefit of a national American music but also a contribution to the music of the whole world."
— Summertime: George Gershwin's Life in Music by Richard Crawford
Gershwin spent the last year, or more, of his life in Hollywood providing songs for three movies, Shall We Dance, Damsel in Distress and Delicious. Throughout this time he referred to a string quartet he had "written" but not notated, i.e. having it complete in his mind. Unfortunately his brain tumor and death happened so rapidly that he was unable to commit the work to paper in any fashion. During the last weeks of his life friends and family commented on the change that occurred, "the life went out of his eyes," "his pallor was sickly and gray," "the only time he ever declined to play the piano," etc.
He also stated that he found the entire experience of writing for the movies so tiresome and unrewarding, and by then he had already decided to avoid more Broadway shows, he planned to devote the rest of his life to more serious musical pursuits. The string quartet was just one of those ideas, he planned on writing more orchestral works and opera.
One can only guess at what possible masterpieces never materialized because of his death at 38.
Quote from: San Antone on April 03, 2020, 02:24:35 AM
*** bump ***
I found this quote in the new biography of Gershwin I just finished reading:
A spoken memorial broadcast from Los Angeles the day after George died included this tribute from Arnold Schoenberg: "Music to him was the air he breathed, the food which nourished him, the drink that refreshed him. Music was what made him feel, and music was the feeling he expressed. Directness of this kind is given only to great men, and there is no doubt that he was a great composer. What he achieved was not only to the benefit of a national American music but also a contribution to the music of the whole world."
— Summertime: George Gershwin's Life in Music by Richard Crawford
That's a beautiful tribute. Schoenberg seemed to begin expressing somewhat unexpected admiration for certain composers once he came to America. He apparently had kind words for Shostakovich as well, though I think he was unimpressed with the famous Leningrad Symphony.
Anyway, I can't say I know much of Gershwin's work. I love the Miles Davis/Gil Evans take on Porgy & Bess, and then I have such works as the Rhapsody in Blue, An American in Paris, and the Piano Concerto in F major, on CD. I especially like the concerto; I have the Entremont/Ormandy/Philadelphia recording and it's great. What else should I check out, Gershwin fans?
I don't care for the Concerto in F and not much for the "Rhapsody" but Porgy and Bess is a masterpiece and he wrote dozens of great tunes that deservedly becames standards. I think the problem is that nowadays these musicals are hard to take as a whole production. Maybe with creative staging, I don't know. I have a CD with "Girl crazy" that contains about three famous standards (I got rhythm, But not for me, Embraceable you) and the rest is listenable but not quite memorable,
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 15, 2008, 11:58:52 AM
Wife & I are BIG FANS of American popular song from the first half of the 20th century - Gershwin, Kern, Arlen, Rodgers & Hart, and so many others - have the complete Ella Fitzgerald Songbooks, if you like vocals - all, including Gershwin, are excellent.
Yeah! ;D
Quote from: kristopaivinen on May 15, 2008, 09:27:54 AM
I have the feeling that George Gershwin does not enjoy a very high appreciation among the classical music audience.
No, you're not alone (and hoping that you still check out this forum?!).
All the best,
PD
Quote from: Brewski on May 15, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
Right! I have three CDs of Finnissy's Gershwin arrangements...fantastic stuff. Edit: this one below, by pianist Nicolas Hodges (no relation to me ;D), is marvelous.
:)
--Bruce
So, is this album strictly piano? Just curious. :) Am not familiar with the pianist's work.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 15, 2008, 11:58:52 AM
Wife & I are BIG FANS of American popular song from the first half of the 20th century - Gershwin, Kern, Arlen, Rodgers & Hart, and so many others - have the complete Ella Fitzgerald Songbooks, if you like vocals - all, including Gershwin, are excellent.
I agree 100%! If you do not know of the book American Popular Song by Alec Wilder (a good songwriter in his own right) then it will be a treat for you to read.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CeJv4OaIL.jpg)
American Popular Song (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VIDT72/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) by Alec Wilder
Also, there is a (or used to be a) series from the Smithsonian devoting a CD to different songwriters. I got them all and they feature performances of their greatest songs from when they were first featured in a show or film, or in whatever manner they were originally premiered. Not only are there hundreds of great songs but valuable recordings of singers and stars as well.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41E8H4JBV7L.jpg)
American Songbook Series (https://www.amazon.com/Smithsonian-Collection-Of-Recordings-American-Songbook-%28Series%29/e/B000ARA3Q4)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 28, 2017, 09:33:42 AM
I should say that, years ago (now) I had became firmly jaded against the Rhapsody in Blue. I could not with any hope of accuracy report why. Furthermore, while as a general thing my feeling was that, if I never heard the piece again, that would be just fine by me—nevertheless, I really enjoyed its use in the soundtrack of Woody Allen's Manhattan. Enjoyed it without snickering, genuine, pure enjoyment. But otherwise, instant channel-switch.
The recording which snapped me out of it, and which remains one of the my favorite versions of the piece, is Marcus Roberts' jazz combo version:
[flash=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/v/Xrs135MAvJc[/flash
Hmm...if there was a fainting emogi, I would have inserted it here. ;) For me: I don't listen to him often, but boy, it does hit the spot! It's quintessentially American...big, bold, and jazzy wow! You gotta love the guy! ;D My views, I know. Need to search out the 'jazz combo' version.
Best wishes to all,
PD
Quote from: San Antone on April 03, 2020, 03:59:33 PM
I agree 100%! If you do not know of the book American Popular Song by Alec Wilder (a good songwriter in his own right) then it will be a treat for you to read.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CeJv4OaIL.jpg)
American Popular Song (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VIDT72/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) by Alec Wilder
Also, there is a (or used to be a) series from the Smithsonian devoting a CD to different songwriters. I got them all and they feature performances of their greatest songs from when they were first featured in a show or film, or in whatever manner they were originally premiered. Not only are there hundreds of great songs but valuable recordings of singers and stars as well.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41E8H4JBV7L.jpg)
American Songbook Series (https://www.amazon.com/Smithsonian-Collection-Of-Recordings-American-Songbook-%28Series%29/e/B000ARA3Q4)
I am not familiar with that CD nor the book; that said, I do also have a soft spot for Rogers and Hart for instance. :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 03, 2020, 04:09:01 PM
I am not familiar with that CD nor the book; that said, I do also have a soft spot for Rogers and Hart for instance. :)
PD
The Smithsonian series has a CD for them:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4139DZT6DDL.jpg)
There is also a 5CD box from the Smithsonian of this music:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51znNMwEHCL.jpg)
It comes with a fantastic book discussing the songwriters and songs in detail.
One more post on The American Popular Songbook, arguably the best current interpreter of this repertory is Michael Feinstein. He's recorded 28 studio albums often focusing on a single composer's work (several on Gershwin), or a theme. Not everyone will like his voice or style, but he has spent his career preserving, advocating for and performing this catalog of classic songs.
Quote from: San Antone on April 03, 2020, 04:45:50 PM
One more post on The American Popular Songbook, arguably the best current interpreter of this repertory is Michael Feinstein. He's recorded 28 studio albums often focusing on a single composer's work (several on Gershwin), or a theme. Not everyone will like his voice or style, but he has spent his career preserving, advocating for and performing this catalog of classic songs.
I'll have to check him out. The "Great American Songbook" is a huge gap in my knowledge/appreciation of music. If I know any of these tunes, it's usually because they've become jazz standards after the fact. But a lot of these songs are really beautiful, so I think I owe it to myself to spend more time with this kind of music.
Quote from: San Antone on April 03, 2020, 02:24:35 AM
*** bump ***
I found this quote in the new biography of Gershwin I just finished reading:
A spoken memorial broadcast from Los Angeles the day after George died included this tribute from Arnold Schoenberg: "Music to him was the air he breathed, the food which nourished him, the drink that refreshed him. Music was what made him feel, and music was the feeling he expressed. Directness of this kind is given only to great men, and there is no doubt that he was a great composer. What he achieved was not only to the benefit of a national American music but also a contribution to the music of the whole world."
— Summertime: George Gershwin's Life in Music by Richard Crawford
Very nice!
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 03, 2020, 04:01:30 PM
Hmm...if there was a fainting emogi, I would have inserted it here. ;) For me: I don't listen to him often, but boy, it does hit the spot! It's quintessentially American...big, bold, and jazzy wow! You gotta love the guy! ;D My views, I know. Need to search out the 'jazz combo' version.
Best wishes to all,
PD
I've long since seen the Light, and I'm now a big fan of
Gershwin.
Quote from: Jo498 on April 03, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
I don't care for the Concerto in F and not much for the "Rhapsody" but Porgy and Bess is a masterpiece and he wrote dozens of great tunes that deservedly becames standards. I think the problem is that nowadays these musicals are hard to take as a whole production. Maybe with creative staging, I don't know. I have a CD with "Girl crazy" that contains about three famous standards (I got rhythm, But not for me, Embraceable you) and the rest is listenable but not quite memorable,
The first few times I listened to the
Concerto in F, I ran consistently cool on it. But now I think very highly of it.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 03, 2020, 04:57:12 PM
I'll have to check him out. The "Great American Songbook" is a huge gap in my knowledge/appreciation of music. If I know any of these tunes, it's usually because they've become jazz standards after the fact. But a lot of these songs are really beautiful, so I think I owe it to myself to spend more time with this kind of music.
The Great American Songbook is an amazing resource of some extraordinary music. The "problem" with the whole jazz standard thing is that it fundamentally changes the feel/style of how many of the songs were conceived. Gershwin is a case in point - a lot of the songs as written are brighter (usually sung at a higher pitch even) than the moody torch songs they have morphed into. Not that the jazz standard approach isn't great too - its just that it distorts the original a lot. This also goes for big band swing treatments. Remember that in effect Gershwin wrote all his songs BEFORE the big band - in the sense of a Glen Miller/ Count Basie / Ellington 1940's and later conceived it came into being.
On a different tack - Jerome Kern is probably the greatest yet least appreciated of the great song writers. Of course everyone knows many of his songs but I wonder how many appreciate just how sophisticated they are in a a way that even Berlin, Rodgers and Gershwin have to give way to. But to be fair all of those "Golden Age" composers - and many others too - write at a level of harmonic and formal skill that few equivalent contemporary popular song writers come close to.
Wondering what Gershwin might have achieved is of course a slightly pointless task but I would direct listeners towards late Duke Ellington who experimented with form and harmony in a way they I think Gershwin might have explored too. I don't think Gershwin would have gone down the Copland path.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 04, 2020, 09:04:28 AM
On a different tack - Jerome Kern is probably the greatest yet least appreciated of the great song writers. Of course everyone knows many of his songs but I wonder how many appreciate just how sophisticated they are in a a way that even Berlin, Rodgers and Gershwin have to give way to. But to be fair all of those "Golden Age" composers - and many others too - write at a level of harmonic and formal skill that few equivalent contemporary popular song writers come close to.
I agree that the composers of the Great American Songbook were writing at a high level. I consider these songs the American lieder equal to the best art songs written in prior periods. However, I do not place Kern above the rest. If I were to single out one, I'd name Berlin as a songwriter of rare ability, a talent able to capture complex emotions in simple language that everyone can feel and understand. That ability is very rare and extremely hard to master. One example is the song "How Deep is the Ocean", which is just amazing, IMO.
As far a post 1960s songwriters matching the quality, it is futile to make comparisons. For decades, Broadway was the primary avenue for songs to appear, once that was no longer the case, styles and the reason a song was written changed so drastically that these two periods constitute two mutually exclusive repertories. But I would put forward
Jimmy Webb as a composer whose writing comes closest to resembling the kind of song Gershwin or Berlin or Kern wrote.
Quote from: San Antone on April 04, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
I agree that the composers of the Great American Songbook were writing at a high level. I consider these songs the American lieder equal to the best art songs written in prior periods. However, I do not place Kern above the rest. If I were to single out one, I'd name Berlin as a songwriter of rare ability, a talent able to capture complex emotions in simple language that everyone can feel and understand. That ability is very rare and extremely hard to master. One example is the song "How Deep is the Ocean", which is just amazing, IMO.
As far a post 1960s songwriters matching the quality, it is futile to make comparisons. For decades, Broadway was the primary avenue for songs to appear, once that was no longer the case, styles and the reason a song was written changed so drastically that these two periods constitute two mutually exclusive repertories. But I would put forward Jimmy Webb as a composer whose writing comes closest to resembling the kind of song Gershwin or Berlin or Kern wrote.
I wouldn't disagree with you regarding Berlin. My point - that I don't think I expressed clearly enough - was skill
relative to fame. Of course people know Kern's standards from "Old Man River" to "The way you look tonight" but there is a general level of sophistication in his writing that Berlin does not try or indeed wish to emulate. That doesn't make them "better" than Berlin's songs just different. Berlin's great skill - as you say - was the common touch and his ability to strike a common chord (pun intended). I wouldn't want to be without either - or all the other great American songwriters too!
There are still many great writers producing songs for Musical Theatre right up to this day. The change - as you allude to - is that while the material is still being written, it is not the path to wide-spread popularity with a very few exceptions - "Memory" / "Send in the Clowns" etc. It will be interesting to see if the release of the new Spielberg West Side Story will result in those songs suddenly becoming known to a new/younger/wider audience.
Tangential to the topic: a kinoscope (so expect poor video quality)
Fred Astaire is a guest on
the Oscar Levant Show
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 30, 2022, 05:25:20 PMTangential to the topic: a kinoscope (so expect poor video quality)
Fred Astaire is a guest on the Oscar Levant Show
Thanks for that upload Karl! I hadn't heard of him before now (though I suspect that I might have seen him in a movie looking at some of the ones that he was in in Wiki's article about him). :)
PD