GMG Classical Music Forum

Would like to get some opinions about this masterpiece.... ;)


the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._4_%28Shostakovich%29

i love how it describes the symphony:

QuoteThe symphony resembles a volcanic eruption—the eruption of unleashed imagination, spewing forth music almost at random, without an apparent design, logic or destination.[4] It relies heavily on thematic transformation and cinematographic continuity (and occasional lack of same), with tonal and formal features providing a relatively passive framework.[5] The combination of unbridled fantasy and unconventional structure makes this symphony perhaps one of the most original post-Mahlerian symphonies in the classical repertoire.[6]

This symphony has to be one of the most imaginative pieces of music out there.......

My favourite DSCH sym by quite some margin, and also probably his most Mahlerian sounding work. Despite all that is "odd" about it, it hangs together rather well.

It is a very strange work; absolute Shostakovich that sweeps across the whole spectrum of his musical style. A million miles from the 3rd, which he had written just a few years previously, in both form and quality but not heard until the 1960's, it kind of fits anywhere. It may have been written in the 30's, but it could just as well been written in the 50's or 60's such is it's freshness and 'uniqueness'. I don't think it's my favourite Shostakovich symphony (no.13 probably wears that crown just now), but it's certainly in the top half. Thinking about it here, I wonder what it says? I love it, but I'm not quite sure why...

The more I hear this piece, the more I think this might be Shostakovich's greatest symphony.  Just heard a fantastic live performance the other night by Haitink and Chicago, and again last December with Andrey Boreyko and the New York Philharmonic.  Both were searing, magnificent readings.  

Lethe, interesting you mention Mahler, since that's what the friend with me at the Chicago concert thought, too.

--Bruce

Definitely one of my three favourite Shostakovich symphonies (it, 14 and 15 have been my three favourites for about a decade now, so I guess that ranking is reasonably solid for me). I think the Mahler connection is spot on, though there's obviously an influence from Berg, who Shostakovich apparently thought very highly of. I've seen several people argue that Krenek's 2nd symphony, which is similarly in three wide-ranging movements, is a major influence; however I think Popov's 1st is an even more obvious predecessor.

It's interesting, if largely irrelevant, to wonder what influence this symphony would have had if it had been performed at the time of writing (similarly with the Popov work, also suppressed). As it is, I think its most obvious progeny--Schnittke's 1st symphony--didn't appear until the early '70s.

I like his 5th, 7th and 10th more. Giving it a 7.

This Symphony, not played before Stalin was dead, is a Master peace. After the 1st as student, 2nd and 3rd as "must do" works it was the first Symphony from DSch there he was "himself". And then this "prawda article". From this moment on DSch was not the same person as before and his fight against Stalin began.
Stalin may never understood really that DSch say's with his music. No doubt!!

For all this reason's this Symphonie is improtant.

I don't think I know enough to say that this is the best, but it is certainly my favourite - therefore it gets a 10. It may even be his most important for the reasons others give. Just saw CSO perform it for the second time in two years last week - it loses none of it's magic, no matter how many times I hear it.

Strange that until relatively recently it never got much enthusiasm. I remember reading a review a few years ago describing it as a mess! It does beg the question about how pieces become fashionable.

Quote from: Sef on May 19, 2008, 12:48:51 PM
Strange that until relatively recently it never got much enthusiasm. I remember reading a review a few years ago describing it as a mess! It does beg the question about how pieces become fashionable.

Interesting...... maybe it just needs familiarity among audiences/critics.

Quote from: bhodges on May 19, 2008, 07:59:21 AM
Lethe, interesting you mention Mahler, since that's what the friend with me at the Chicago concert thought, too.

--Bruce

What I didn't catch about this symphony until recently were the quotations from one of the main motives of Mahler's 4th. Pretty easy to miss, very subtle and most likely he did have it in mind although it could also have been just pure chance, being only a few notes (unless someone can prove this wrong).

...and of course the end is like a vision of the end of Das Lied von der Erde, in a totally different dimension.

What dimension? I have to say I see no connection between the two endings except for that both are quiet and long drawn out. But Mahler's music runs out very slowly and melancholically, but peaceful, on the other hand, DSH's piece ends in almost complete (but not *quite* complete) despair and desolation after a huge catastrophy.

Quote from: M forever on May 19, 2008, 05:13:15 PM
What dimension? I have to say I see no connection between the two endings except for that both are quiet and long drawn out. But Mahler's music runs out very slowly and melancholically, but peaceful, on the other hand, DSH's piece ends in almost complete (but not *quite* complete) despair and desolation after a huge catastrophy.

Catastrophe.

Quote from: Auferstehung on May 19, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
Catastrophe.

And can you also tell us why, even though it's pronounced the way M wrote it? If you like to be smart this much? :)

Re: Shostakovich's 4th, I gave it a 9.

I agree with the sentiment about its being his most Mahlerian symphony, but I still view the 15th as his most accomplished.

Quote from: techniquest on May 19, 2008, 07:58:34 AM
It is a very strange work; absolute Shostakovich that sweeps across the whole spectrum of his musical style. A million miles from the 3rd, which he had written just a few years previously, in both form and quality but not heard until the 1960's, it kind of fits anywhere. It may have been written in the 30's, but it could just as well been written in the 50's or 60's such is it's freshness and 'uniqueness'.

Heh! I guess that's the other way of putting it! This morning I listened to his second violin concerto, followed by the 4th symphony, and thought "Gee, he didn't develop very much, did he?"

I'm still a Shosty novice, so this is the right time to start recommending great recordings of this work.

To me, it really is a masterpiece.  (Although I'm also very fond of the First; no mere student work, this. :D)  And for all the Wikipedia author's words about "unleashed imagination" and "lack of formal design," it's actually very tightly organized, with a very Mahlerian motivic interplay within and between movements.  For example, the subject of the string fugato a little more than halfway through the first movement is directly derived from the sardonic opening theme, the main theme in the second movement is also derived from the first movement's opening theme, and the bass/low brass theme in the climax of the last movement is the opening bassoon theme of that movement. 8)

Quote from: M forever on May 19, 2008, 05:13:15 PM
What dimension? I have to say I see no connection between the two endings except for that both are quiet and long drawn out. But Mahler's music runs out very slowly and melancholically, but peaceful, on the other hand, DSH's piece ends in almost complete (but not *quite* complete) despair and desolation after a huge catastrophy.

Well, that's what I mean by a different dimension (it was late last night when I posted that, and I was very tired, so I couldn't search for better words). Both works end with this long-drawn-out fade on, essentially, a single chord, embellished in each case by occasional arpeggiated figures in the celeste - for a composer as steeped in and influenced by Mahler as Shostakovich, the resemblance can't have escaped him. The difference in tone and implication is huge, as you say - and in fact the resemblances only seem to highlight  this difference - but that Shostakovich may have modeled the general shape on the Mahler is an oft-repeated suggestion that I've seen and heard more than a few times*.

*The opening of this last movement is also sometimes seen to be modeled on the opening of the last song of Das Lied.

I am willing to upload a really terrific performance: Kiril Kondrashin conducting the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (recorded 10/10/1971).

Anyone interested?

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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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Though I've a Kondrashin, a Rozhdestvensky and a Barshai each, of "old Russian masters", I don't at all think another Kondrashin will spoil me. ;) Thanks in advance, Jezetha.

My favourite

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

I don't know what you do when you link files like that, but it seems to a) circumvent the countdown b) ignore the DL limit (I had just finished another RS file before I clicked this). I like ;D

Quote from: Lethe on May 20, 2008, 06:25:28 AM
I don't know what you do when you link files like that, but it seems to a) circumvent the countdown b) ignore the DL limit (I had just finished another RS file before I clicked this). I like ;D

I have a Rapidshare account - I turned these files into 'Direct Downloads', so that anyone who has the link can download the file immediately.

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 06:31:12 AM
I have a Rapidshare account - I turned these files into 'Direct Downloads', so that anyone who has the link can download the file immediately.

Very kind, thank you :)

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

You da man.

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

oooooohhhhh sweet thanks
this'll be a third version for me, then- my CD is Rozhdestvensky's, I've seen a Gergiev performance on youtube, and now Kondrashin.
before long i'll be able to play it back in my head straight through!  ;D  (well, you know, somewhat)

Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 19, 2008, 04:18:46 PM
...and of course the end is like a vision of the end of Das Lied von der Erde, in a totally different dimension.

Here's commentary on this page that I've never read about before: (i don't have a CD booklet)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PF9pt6Zs_F0

QuoteI have read in his memoires (Testimony by Volkov) and in another book by Kryzstof Myer that this part (and also the flute solo part in the 1st part of the 6th symphony) refer to the sleepness nights he had in the period after Stalin had seen his Lady Macbeth Opera. He was (obviously) afraid to be shot or to be sent away to something like the Gulag. You can also read that he was only very lucky one day that this didn't happen.

You're welcome. Lady Macbeth was written in 1930-32 and the 4th symphony in 1935-1936.

By the way, that very lucky one day he had refers to the following anecdote you might know about. If you do not, here it is:

One day after Stalin's attack in Pravda Shostakovich was called by the NKVD (secret service) on a saturday. Officer Zakrevski tried to convince Shostakovich that he belonged to a group of terrorists who were preparing an attack on Stalin.

They asked him the names of the other terrorists. Shostakovich obviously did not know what he was talking about. Zakrevski told him to come back on monday and warned Shostakovich that he must give their names otherwise he would be arrested (and eventually be shot). When Shostakovich returned to the NKVD on monday, after an endless sunday. There, they did not know why Shostakovich came to them. You know why? Because Zakrevski himself was shot on sunday.

The end of this symphony seems to be about sleepless nights, and fear of death, at least that's what Krzystof Meyer says..... (though how do we know he's not making this up)? Anyone read his book on DSCH?

I do see a link between here and Das Lied von der Erde and the Mahler 9...... it's like both composers had in mind that before long it's possible that they might die.

Also, I was listening to the 5th symphony today and realized that there's similar passages at the end of the 1st and 3rd movements. Maybe it's a similar theme going on, even though it's a "Soviet Artists Reply to Just Criticism", maybe that was part of him actually saying what he wanted to?

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

Many thanks for this. I still haven't got around to buying a CD version of the Kondrashin studio set (I used to have the LPs before I moved to Canada) so this is an instructive contrast with my currently favoured Rozhdestvensky.

Regarding similarities between this work and others, the most obvious to me has been the linking passage before the final catastrophic climax, which is very obviously indebted to the passage connecting the scherzo and finale of Beethoven's 5th (and presumably the reference is very much intentional).

Quote from: edward on May 20, 2008, 10:38:52 AM
Many thanks for this. I still haven't got around to buying a CD version of the Kondrashin studio set (I used to have the LPs before I moved to Canada)

Why? Are LPs illegal in Canada so they confiscated them at the border?  ;D

There is also a live recording with Kondrashin and the Staatskapelle Dresden from 1963 - actually the German premiere. Dresden at that time of course was in East Germany and that concert was less than 2 years after the wall had been built. It is a very intense and massive reading, unfortunately in mono, but in rather good mono at least, so you soon forget that.

My own associations that are stirred by this piece and the long end in particular are less about the knowledge of death or other personal feelings of fear and impending catastrophy (oops, catastrophe). For me, Shostkovich, while as personal as Mahler, also has a dimension which reaches beyond his own personality. I think in many of his works, he makes more general comments about the time and place he lived in than that he just gives us his personal reflection. I somehow see him as the chronicler of the immense oppression and suffering of the people under the Soviet regime, the sarcastic and grotesque march-like music with the long bassoon and trombone solos a mocking of the dictatorship, the catastrophic climax of the last movement as a prophesy of the very bad things that would happen to the people, the long coda the desolation and emptiness afterwards. I find that emptiness very eerie, especially the way the celesta notes float above the wasteland left by the destruction before. I haven't made up my mind yet if the very last note of the celesta indicates hope, or if it "means" that the music just disappears into nothingness...

Quote from: M forever on May 20, 2008, 12:58:46 PM
For me, Shostkovich, while as personal as Mahler, also has a dimension which reaches beyond his own personality. I think in many of his works, he makes more general comments about the time and place he lived in than that he just gives us his personal reflection.

He was moved by world events, after all, so that makes sense.

Mahler, on the other hand, was more of a daydreamer, which i can identify with.... hung out in the forest composing music about the animals, mankind's suffering, transcendence, and death.

And it's pretty fascinating to analyze these attitudes on a technical level, too (especially harmonically)- such as Shosty's frequent octatonic scale use, use of the major scale but with a flatted 2nd in the bass (which sounds like some "suspicious" note over a calmed major tonality).

And of course Mahler's frequent additions of an extra note over a regular major or minor chord (or major with a 1st inversion, which sounds extra painfully nice), plus the more "transcendent" chord progressions and modulations, such as iv-I and augmented 4th modulations, mix of major and minor (writing a "sighing" minor third in a major context.

Any more thoughts on technical analysis of these composers' aesthetics and how they differ and are alike, M? (or anyone else) (like harmony, counterpoint, rhythm, etc.)

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
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http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

I have all of the available Kondrashin recordings of this symphony and in my opinion this is his best one in spite of some individual mistakes from the players. His interpretation in some places is notably different (more mature, and probably more intense) from the earlier Moscow recording and the other live account with Dresden. With Rozhdestvensky these 2 conductors have no competition in this work.

Just finished the Kondrashin recording. Honestly...... this is WAY better than Rozhdestvensky (which itself is better than Gergiev).
Everything is more lively and clear at the same time, even the fast fugue section is slightly faster, yet just as clear (how is that possible?!). You can hear the brass through the strings, and it isn't overpowering (with few minor exceptions).
The tempos are perfect and the whole symphony sounds more solid..... did Shostakovich ever get to hear Kondrashin conduct this one?

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on May 20, 2008, 02:30:30 PM
Just finished the Kondrashin recording. Honestly...... this is WAY better than Rozhdestvensky (which itself is better than Gergiev).
Everything is more lively and clear at the same time, even the fast fugue section is slightly faster, yet just as clear (how is that possible?!). You can hear the brass through the strings, and it isn't overpowering (with few minor exceptions).
The tempos are perfect and the whole symphony sounds more solid..... did Shostakovich ever get to hear Kondrashin conduct this one?

I'm going to go for a contrary viewpoint here: though Kondrashin is obviously a must in this work, I still prefer Rozhdestvensky. Yes, Kondrashin has more energy but Rozhdestvensky's slow tempi and some of his rhythmic articulation contribute to an immensely ominous atmosphere, that makes the whole work feel like an inevitable progress to the ultimate catastrophe at the end. Kondrashin is electrifying, but Rozhdestvensky scares the sh*t out of me.

Quote from: edward on May 20, 2008, 03:26:47 PM
...but Rozhdestvensky scares the sh*t out of me.

Is that the BBC Legends recording?

Quote from: MN Dave on May 20, 2008, 03:36:35 PM
Is that the BBC Legends recording?

I've not heard that one: the one I have is part of this set:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CYD665QNL._SS500_.jpg)

I don't have the complete set, though: I had it on a BMG/Melodiya twofer that's now out of print.

Quote from: MN Dave on May 20, 2008, 03:36:35 PM
Is that the BBC Legends recording?

That's the one I was referring to, at least. Interesting to see there's a complete cycle out there; I wonder how I missed it. :o

Quote from: Renfield on May 20, 2008, 04:21:49 PM
That's the one I was referring to, at least. Interesting to see there's a complete cycle out there; I wonder how I missed it. :o

The Rozhdestvensky set still exist in the Venezia incarnation from HMV Japan.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1440100

(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/14/4/0/100.jpg)

Quote from: rubio on May 20, 2008, 09:08:19 PM
The Rozhdestvensky set still exist in the Venezia incarnation from HMV Japan.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1440100

(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/14/4/0/100.jpg)

Interesting. Thank you. :)

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
[load goes up]

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

Ah, many thanks, Jezetha. One of the big fat zeros in the poll above belongs to me :-[ so I appreciate you taking the time to make this available :).

Quote from: Novi on May 21, 2008, 06:24:26 AM
Ah, many thanks, Jezetha. One of the big fat zeros in the poll above belongs to me :-[ so I appreciate you taking the time to make this available :).

I envy you! Hope you'll enjoy it.

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on May 20, 2008, 01:44:08 PM

And it's pretty fascinating to analyze these attitudes on a technical level, too (especially harmonically)- such as Shosty's frequent octatonic scale use, use of the major scale but with a flatted 2nd in the bass (which sounds like some "suspicious" note over a calmed major tonality).

And of course Mahler's frequent additions of an extra note over a regular major or minor chord (or major with a 1st inversion, which sounds extra painfully nice), plus the more "transcendent" chord progressions and modulations, such as iv-I and augmented 4th modulations, mix of major and minor (writing a "sighing" minor third in a major context.

No one with any additional comments? Give me a break, this is one of the most fascinating things about music, analyzing feelings that you get from harmonies at a technical level. I know people have to have studied enough scores to say a few things......

I listened to my new Kondrashin recording on headphones the other night. Sound surprisingly good, apart from tape dropouts and need to boost the bass to fill out the sound.

As a noob I must say it's difficult to get to grips with - a wealth of ideas sprawled across an hour. The ending is wonderfully creepy - with the heartbeats and the glock, I wonder if he was quoting himself in the 15th?

I didn't notice references to Mahler's 4th, but I did notice the trumpet motif from the first movt of the 7th (the "Star Trek" fanfare), plus the reoccurring chord modulating from major to minor, from the 6th.

Quote from: eyeresist on May 21, 2008, 05:09:27 PM

I didn't notice references to Mahler's 4th,

It's extremely easy to miss. It's just 4 notes plus two that are similar, a few minutes into the 3rd movement, and the flute plays this.......

Quote from: eyeresist on May 21, 2008, 05:09:27 PM
but I did notice the trumpet motif from the first movt of the 7th (the "Star Trek" fanfare), plus the reoccurring chord modulating from major to minor, from the 6th.

Very interesting! This is what i like to hear in discussion about this symphony....... didn't even recognize this.

Guess what I'll be listening to tonight (again) :)

The other Mahler references I noticed were also in the 3rd movt.

Quote from: eyeresist on May 21, 2008, 05:09:27 PM
I listened to my new Kondrashin recording on headphones the other night. Sound surprisingly good, apart from tape dropouts and need to boost the bass to fill out the sound.

As a noob I must say it's difficult to get to grips with - a wealth of ideas sprawled across an hour. The ending is wonderfully creepy - with the heartbeats and the glock, I wonder if he was quoting himself in the 15th?

Certainly a 'yes' to the quotation;  he also quotes that 'percolating percussion' riff in the Second Cello Concerto.

And I found the symphony's vastness an assimilation challenge at first, too.

Johan, I will comment at more length later, but first, hearty thanks for the download!

Quote from: karlhenning on May 22, 2008, 03:03:12 AM
And I found the symphony's vastness an assimilation challenge at first, too.

Quote from: edward on May 19, 2008, 08:06:15 AM
As it is, I think its most obvious progeny--Schnittke's 1st symphony--didn't appear until the early '70s.

That's the fun of it!  :)

I voted 9, since I cannot say if a piece is better than another masterpiece. Personally my favorite Schostakovich Sym is no. 14. But I also find myself returning to 4, 7 and 11 most often.

If you like Shostakovich Symphony No 4, you might also enjoy:

Popov Symphony 1

Weinberg (Vainberg) Symphony 5

Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2008, 01:34:23 AM
If you like Shostakovich Symphony No 4, you might also enjoy:

Popov Symphony 1

Weinberg (Vainberg) Symphony 5

Interrestingly!  :D Never heard of them before. Thanks!

Quote from: mikkeljs on May 24, 2008, 01:24:00 AM
I voted 9, since I cannot say if a piece is better than another masterpiece. Personally my favorite Schostakovich Sym is no. 14. But I also find myself returning to 4, 7 and 11 most often.

14, 4, 10, and 11 for me, almost the same  ;)

Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2008, 01:34:23 AM
Popov Symphony 1

Listened to that one once, thought it was labeled "Shostakovich" but it was just some other work on the side. Thought the symphony was actually pretty good!

Quote from: Jezetha on May 20, 2008, 02:03:21 AM
[load goes up]

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238347/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_1._Allegretto__poco_moderato_-_Presto_-_Tempo_1.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238348/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_2._Moderato__con_moto.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/116238349/Shostakovich-_Symphony_No.4_In_C_Minor_-_3._Largo_-_Allegro.mp3

Just downloaded it. Thanks. It's been a while since I listened to the 4th, it grabbed me at once. Listened to the version of Janssons.

Quote from: Henk on July 15, 2008, 02:17:48 PM
Just downloaded it. Thanks. It's been a while since I listened to the 4th, it grabbed me at once. Listened to the version of Janssons.

It's an electrifying performance, Henk!

Thread uplift  ;D! I'm giving the last 7 Minutes a 1000, still not exactly knowing about the rest; that makes a perfect 10!
Jez: The Glockenspiel player plays wrong (afaik!) at 23:55 in the last mvmt., and waaaaaahttt! The conclusion in this recording goes like: Don dong "COUGHHHHH!" ding ding... (after 24.00) This guy has stained the mankinds holyest moment!

Which recording are you listening to?  I have been listening to this recent one below, with Haitink and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (on the CSO Resound label), which has been nominated for a Grammy Award for "Best Orchestral Performance."  Both the playing and the recording are pretty spectacular. 

--Bruce

I still have the first movement of the recording Jezetha posted on my myspace page- a friend even admitted to listening to the whole thing. I would have to be paid to take it down.

I have versions by Kondrashin, Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky, Gergiev, Jarvi, Maxim Shostakovich, Previn, Ormandy, Jansons, Barshai, Herbig and at least two or three others (no money however  :-\). The two Kondrashin's are my favourites (Melodiya and Dresden versions) but Maxim Shostakovich's version is excellent as is Previn's. I am curious to hear the new Haitink.

I think that the last few minutes are amongst the greatest ever written.

My order of preference:
No 4
No 10
No 11
No 7
No 8
No 15
No 1
No 6
No 12
No 9
No 5
No 13
No 14
No 2 and 3

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
My order of preference:
No 4
No 10
No 11
No 7
No 8
No 15
No 1
No 6
No 12
No 9
No 5
No 13
No 14
No 2 and 3

I'm happy you rank No. 11 so highly.  Just this fall I heard Peter Oundjian and the Toronto Symphony do the piece, magnificently, which just reinforced my feeling that it is also one of the great ones.  I brought two friends who had never heard it before, and they were so impressed that the very next day they bought it on iTunes.

PS, downloading the Kondrashin now that Jezetha posted.  I'd intended to a long time ago and forgot.   :-[ 

Thanks so much!  0:)

--Bruce

     Since I still haven't listened to 12-15 from the Haitink cycle I can't say the 4th is Shostakovich's masterpiece.....ohhh yes I can!_;D

     I'm glad to see No. 11 getting favorable mention. Anyway I have a lot more listening to do before I can say much about the 4th or how it fits with the others.

     I'm going to have to buy the CD of Haitink's LPO 4th. The one that came with the Amazon download set has the track changes screwed up. I don't think the mp3 maker used LAME*, which should handle these transitions flawlessly (it does for me). In this symphony you need gapless. Otherwise I'm very happy with what I've heard so far, and I recommend that everyone who doesn't have a full set of the symphonies go out and get this one. Completists ought to get it, too, of course.  <sub>:)

    *It's Frauenhofer, so that explains it.</sub>

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 12:24:57 PM
I'm happy you rank No. 11 so highly.  Just this fall I heard Peter Oundjian and the Toronto Symphony do the piece, magnificently, which just reinforced my feeling that it is also one of the great ones.  I brought two friends who had never heard it before, and they were so impressed that the very next day they bought it on iTunes.

PS, downloading the Kondrashin now that Jezetha posted.  I'd intended to a long time ago and forgot.   :-[ 

Thanks so much!  0:)

--Bruce

I think that No 11 is one of those that has to be seen live. I was lucky, many years ago, to hear John Pritchard give a great performance at the Festival Hall in London with the BBC SO.  I was sitting right behind the percussion in the choir seats. It was a very exciting experience. I have the performance on CD as it was briefly available on the defunct label BBC Radio Classics. Maybe it will reemerge one day.

If you notice, the marching rhythm in the 11th is the same as in Mahler's 6th- just with more notes added- eight plus 2 sixteens in place of a quarter and straight sixteens in place of a rest......... although these are probably pretty standard march rhythms, anyways.

Quote from: Wurstwasser on December 19, 2008, 11:55:48 AM
Jez: The Glockenspiel player plays wrong (afaik!) at 23:55 in the last mvmt., and waaaaaahttt! The conclusion in this recording goes like: Don dong "COUGHHHHH!" ding ding... (after 24.00) This guy has stained the mankinds holyest moment!

Sorry about the Glockenspiel (if you're right). And yes, the Grote Zaal (Great Hall) of the Concertgebouw can sound like a sanatorium sometimes.

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 12:24:57 PM
PS, downloading the Kondrashin now that Jezetha posted.  I'd intended to a long time ago and forgot.   :-[ 

Thanks so much!  0:)

--Bruce

I'm amazed the link is still working. I uploaded the work to another Rapidshare account, which I let expire in favour of another...

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2008, 12:50:55 PM
I think that No 11 is one of those that has to be seen live. I was lucky, many years ago, to hear John Pritchard give a great performance at the Festival Hall in London with the BBC SO.  I was sitting right behind the percussion in the choir seats. It was a very exciting experience. I have the performance on CD as it was briefly available on the defunct label BBC Radio Classics. Maybe it will reemerge one day.

Oh sorry, I remember now that we discussed this before (I think), since I also heard Pritchard do it here in NYC, probably around the same time, and I bought that recording as well!  IIRC the cover art is very beautiful, a drawing of mountainous peaks.

PS, just searched The New York Times and found the review (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE1D61230F93AA25752C0A961948260)--yikes, from 1987!  Seems like yesterday.

--Bruce

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 01:02:54 PM
Oh sorry, I remember now that we discussed this before (I think), since I also heard Pritchard do it here in NYC, probably around the same time, and I bought that recording as well!  IIRC the cover art is very beautiful, a drawing of mountainous peaks.

PS, just searched The New York Times and found the review (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE1D61230F93AA25752C0A961948260)--yikes, from 1987!  Seems like yesterday.

--Bruce

Bruce,

I just checked the BBC Radio Classics CD. The concert was on 12th April 1985. I especially remember the climax of the last movement where the percussionist virtually threw himself into the gong!

Jeffrey

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2008, 01:24:38 PM
I especially remember the climax of the last movement where the percussionist virtually threw himself into the gong!

Courage is going from gong to gong without losing enthusiasm, Jeffrey  8)

Quote from: karlhenning on December 19, 2008, 01:30:09 PM
Courage is going from gong to gong without losing enthusiasm, Jeffrey  8)

Excellent Karl made me laugh  ;D

Jeffrey

This is definitely my favourite cover art for Shostakovich's 4th Symphony. A wonderfully atmospheric photograph, full of foreboding (that is Stalin's image in the background).

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2008, 01:24:38 PM
Bruce,

I just checked the BBC Radio Classics CD. The concert was on 12th April 1985. I especially remember the climax of the last movement where the percussionist virtually threw himself into the gong!

Jeffrey

Yes, I recall that, too, now that you mention!  Also Pritchard's face turning very red with all the effort.  And then...my shock, when he died in 1989.  That was my sole experience hearing him conduct, either live or recorded.  :'(

--Bruce

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2008, 01:35:52 PM
This is definitely my favourite cover art for Shostakovich's 4th Symphony. A wonderfully atmospheric photograph, full of foreboding (that is Stalin's image in the background).

That *is* a very cool photo, Jeffrey.  How does the performance rank among all the others you have?  (I don't have many Herbig recordings--not for any particular reason.)

--Bruce

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 01:37:03 PM
Yes, I recall that, too, now that you mention!  Also Pritchard's face turning very red with all the effort.  And then...my shock, when he died in 1989.  That was my sole experience hearing him conduct, either live or recorded.  :'(

--Bruce

Me too Bruce. I don't think I saw him conduct again, although possibly at the BBC studios in Maida Vale. V sad.

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
That *is* a very cool photo, Jeffrey.  How does the performance rank among all the others you have?  (I don't have many Herbig recordings--not for any particular reason.)

--Bruce

It is a very good performance (I have it on the CD player at the moment). I will report back when I have got to the end!

Quote from: bhodges on December 19, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
That *is* a very cool photo, Jeffrey.  How does the performance rank among all the others you have?  (I don't have many Herbig recordings--not for any particular reason.)

--Bruce

Herbig's performance with the Saarbruken Radio SO is beautifully played and recorded (live). Not as manic or bleak as some but totally convincing nonetheless.

Has anyone heard this year's Haitink CSO version on their own label that's up for a Grammy (I believe)? Embarrassed to say that I only heard it live, but have enough versions not to want to buy another. Critique anyone?

     I can't say I'm happy with the cover for the Haitink cycle:

     (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4108x5bEJ%2BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

     The glasses are all right but red?

     Am I reading too much into it? _{(a horrible derisive yesss sounds from all directions! :'()}

   

(http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/communism_its_a_party.jpg)

Quote from: G$ on December 20, 2008, 04:18:14 PM
(http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/communism_its_a_party.jpg)

lol!

(http://images2.ggl.com/images/commie.jpg)

Quote from: drogulus on December 20, 2008, 04:10:21 PM
     I can't say I'm happy with the cover for the Haitink cycle:

     The glasses are all right but red?

     Am I reading too much into it? _{(a horrible derisive yesss sounds from all directions! :'()}

I'm not happy with it either, because no way does that mild mannered, west-is-best interpretation deserve anything like Russian red.

Quote from: ezodisy on December 20, 2008, 04:29:04 PM
lol!

(http://images2.ggl.com/images/commie.jpg)

I'm not happy with it either, because no way does that mild mannered, west-is-best interpretation deserve anything like Russian red.

I think I just found my new desktop picture.   0:) 8)

you should use this one instead

(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/cartapwned/COMMUNISM.png)

Quote from: ezodisy on December 20, 2008, 04:31:01 PM
you should use this one instead

(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/cartapwned/COMMUNISM.png)

lol, i'll save that.  The other one is much easier on the eyes, though....