On DVD or cd with reading the libretto? How is it to attend an opera in concert? Do you read the libretto then also?
Henk
Quote from: Henk on June 01, 2008, 12:39:06 PM
On DVD or cd / concert with reading the libretto?
Henk
Read the synopsis and then visit a live performance (Amsterdam has supertitling of the texts)
Q
Hi Henk:
I'm fairly new to opera too.
My system is to listen to the CD whilst reading the libretto [having already read the synopsis from my various books].
Then view a DVD.
Then attend a live performance by which time you won't need to look at the surtitles ;)
I've attended 5 operas in the past 2 1/2 years being:
The Magic Flute
Faust
Lucia di Lammermoor
Turandot
La Bohme
The first two I learnt via English versions and the last three I've bought copies in their original language.
I've also watched the entire Met Ring Cycle & Rigoletto.
Opera is an artform that really needs to be seen as well as heard.
I still prefer instrumental music, but experiencing a few opera's is a richly rewarding exercise.
If I were to recommend a first opera to someone it would be Rigoletto.
:)
For me, I find it easiest to watch a dvd first, since you can put the subtitles in italian, it helps me memorize the music and words... But I do recommend buying a bottle of extra strength aspirin, learning a new opera for me is 1 massive headache.
Quote from: Henk on June 01, 2008, 12:39:06 PM
On DVD or cd with reading the libretto? How is it to attend an opera in concert? Do you read the libretto then also?
Henk
After spending the past 5 years listening to mostly operas and amassing a CD and DVD collection of well over 50 operas I can honestly tell you that the best way to experience an opera is through DVD recordings with subtitles, you'll need the subtitles even if you speak the language of the opera as it is sometimes hard to make out the words. A few of marvinbrown's 8) rules if I may be so bold:
1) You'll want an opera in its original language! The inflections of the words it is sung in will have a sonorous effect- trust me on this one!
2) Sample to see what kind of production you like. Do you like traditional true to the composer's intentions productions or a modern adaptation, some of these can be quite thrilling.
3) It is advisable to read the synopsis of the opera so that you are familiar with the plot and characters before you watch the DVD.
4) Finally sit back and relax turn the subtitles on to English unless you speak the original language in which case the subtitles should be turned on to that language and enjoy!
5) You would want to start with an opera with a lot of beautiful melodies/arias that you can hum. My recommendations for a newbie to opera are:
Mozart's The Magic Flute (German)
Verdi's Rigoletto (Italian)
Bizet's Carmen (French)
Puccini's La Boheme (Italian)
Finally remember opera should be enjoyable, get into the story, the characters and hear how they and their actions are linked to the music. Opera is dramatic after all 0:)!
marvin
I heartily second Marvin's recommendations! Can't do any better than his way - which is also mine! ;)
P.S.: One exemption: Forget about the Puccini, add Meistersinger von Nürnberg, a light Richard Wagner! - My personal opinion of course, and by the time you have become familiar with operas, you too, dear Henk, are entitled to spout off with your personal opinions. ;D
-
Considering how disgraceful contemporary performances are (cought) (http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=IB9z2R34a5g), i generally use my own imagination this days.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 01, 2008, 06:46:17 PM
Considering how disgraceful contemporary performances are (cought) (http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=IB9z2R34a5g), i generally use my own imagination this days.
Thanks for the link...Now i need to wash my eyes out with soap.
Quote from: Mozart on June 01, 2008, 09:40:33 PM
Thanks for the link...Now i need to wash my eyes out with soap.
That makes two of us :o. Wherever did you find that horrendous production
Josquin des Prez??
Note to
Henk: Please please do not let this terrible opera production posted by
Josquin discourage you from watching operas on DVD. There are so many GREAT (and I am not exaggerating here!) opera productions on DVD. GMG has a wonderful thread entitled
Opera on DVD where you will find discussion on various DVD recordings. I have posted there a few times, quite a few times actually ::).
Here's a link to that thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,116.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,116.0.html)
marvin
"disgraceful"? "horrendous"? ??? A little kiss, A little penis (no offense meant to Mr. Steins. Maybe he's a "grower" ;)) We're not talking about a Bieto production here, people.
I do sometimes prefer to just listen to a CD with the libretto, and imagine my own ideal production. That's how I really got to know about opera. But in those pre-video days, with little opera on television and living in a city that only had one opera production per year, but a public library with lots of opera on LPs, it's not as if I a had a lot of choice.
Quote from: Mozart on June 01, 2008, 09:40:33 PM
Thanks for the link...Now i need to wash my eyes out with soap.
Ridiculous! Are you that easily influenced by a few moments on UTube? Knowledge of the story of Hercules, how he killed a lion and dressed himself with the skin might help in appreciating this outstanding production. Another reminder: There is Vivaldi's music of course and wonderful singing. Zachary Stains is a great acting singer.
No need to wash out your eyes, there are other things going on on stage, simply direct your gaze away from Ercole's flaccid genitals!
Quote from: marvinbrown on June 01, 2008, 02:14:03 PM
5) You would want to start with an opera with a lot of beautiful melodies/arias that you can hum. My recommendations for a newbie to opera are:
Mozart's The Magic Flute (German)
Verdi's Rigoletto (Italian)
Bizet's Carmen (French)
Puccini's La Boheme (Italian)
Finally remember opera should be enjoyable, get into the story, the characters and hear how they and their actions are linked to the music. Opera is dramatic after all 0:)!
marvin
I just lent three DVD's:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5132Z93WTAL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R3D7C85GL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
And Rigoletto by Opera Spanga, a modern interpretation of Rigoletlo.
Henk
Quote from: Henk on June 02, 2008, 07:12:39 AM
I just lent three DVD's:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5132Z93WTAL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R3D7C85GL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
And Rigoletto by Opera Spanga, a modern interpretation of Rigoletlo.
Henk
Excellent choices for operas for a newbie. Both have overtures with famous music you can hum to. Enjoy!
marvin
Henk,
Don't make a big deal about it. It's just music with a story, don't be intimidated by it's being OPERA.
If there's an opera company in your city, go to some shows. (Though I agree it's a good idea to famliarize yourself with the music and story from CD's or DVD's first, although I actually find opera, more than most art forms, benefits from being seen live.) I"ve taken my 10 and 12 year old daughters to a few performances, and now they won't let us go to the opera without taking them.
What city do you live in? Maybe some people here can give you specific recommendations.
More and more i'm reminded just how out of touch with reality liberals truly are. I wonder what the Red Priest would have fought of a bit of man to man action going on his stage.
To be a bit adventurous; here is a remarkable version of a very short Stravinsky piece, a cross between an opera and an oratorio, here it is given a marvelous production. If you can crack this heiratic piece, then Verdi would be very easy. Knowing what this is about is vital.
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lk7sXP5wTY
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOEApbNKUY&feature=related
Mike
Actually Marvin's suggestion of learning the Opera via a DVD is a good one which I'll try next.
I must confess to finding listening to the cd versions a bit exhausting and, sometimes, a chore :(
But...I love seeing the live performances so maybe watching a DVD performance a few times pior to an actual live presentation would be more 'fun'.
Like I said in my earlier post:
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on June 01, 2008, 12:59:10 PM
Opera is an artform that really needs to be seen as well as heard.
:)
Quote from: Shrunk on June 02, 2008, 08:47:35 AM
Henk,
Don't make a big deal about it. It's just music with a story, don't be intimidated by it's being OPERA.
I agree don't make it a chore (IE an academic exercise) it takes the pleasure and joy out of it. We are not at school here.! That said Wagner, Verdi and Mozart didn't just write ordinary music with a story! Sometimes when I listen to Wagner's Tristan und Isolde I feel like I am transported to a world far away from this one we are "forced" to live in- and if I may be so bold as to say.........a better world 0:)!
marvin
Quote from: Shrunk on June 02, 2008, 08:47:35 AM
Henk,
Don't make a big deal about it. It's just music with a story, don't be intimidated by it's being OPERA.
If there's an opera company in your city, go to some shows. (Though I agree it's a good idea to famliarize yourself with the music and story from CD's or DVD's first, although I actually find opera, more than most art forms, benefits from being seen live.) I"ve taken my 10 and 12 year old daughters to a few performances, and now they won't let us go to the opera without taking them.
What city do you live in? Maybe some people here can give you specific recommendations.
I understand you're point, but the whole is more then the sum of the parts. I just saw The Barber of Sevilla and I liked the experience of it, I have get some feeling for opera. I like that the story is based on music, it's a beautifull concept, with the actors singing what they say.
I live in Groningen, the Netherlands. Next month there's an opera being played, Verdi's La Triviata.
Henk
I should have mentioned in my last post that:
After I've learnt an Opera I never return to the cds. I never sit down and listen to an Act or Aria. [Thats not to say that I won't some time in the future]
For me its a total experience so...
...buying the DVD instead of the cds will be a idea worth investigating :)
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on June 02, 2008, 03:09:00 PM
I should have mentioned in my last post that:
After I've learnt an Opera I never return to the cds. I never sit down and listen to an Act or Aria. [Thats not to say that I won't some time in the future]
For me its a total experience so...
...buying the DVD instead of the cds will be a idea worth investigating :)
But the DVD's are very expensive, so I first lent them at the library.
Henk
Henk, if your library has a good inventory of opera DVDs, you are well on your way, and less expensive than purchasing. And then, after you have found operas you really love, have a desire to watch again and again, and also have decided which version you prefer, then you can start your home library.
Good Luck!
Exactly, but I think many opera´s I want to see are not in the collection. But I think I can profit from it a lot.
However you get them, Henk (and I know that buying them can be expensive), I agree that DVDs are one of the best things ever to happen to opera. Aside from the convenience of watching them at home, on your own time, pausing if needed to get snacks ;D, most DVDs have subtitles, in several different languages, and sometimes a libretto, too. And you can replay a scene several times, if needed, for whatever reason. I'm totally sold.
And if you have a fantastic audio-visual system, good opera DVDs can be really quite spectacular. A couple of months ago a friend bought a new high-end system so I brought over the Netherlands Opera production of Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk. We cranked it up really, really loud--it was fantastic.
--Bruce
Yes, I think DVD and opera a great combination.
(Standard disclaimer: This does not mean that, all things being equal, I hadn't rather witness the music live, in the space.)
I used to collect opera on cd and have accumulated many versions of a whole variety of opera...i have 25 Madame Butterfly cds for example.
But then there was the 'death' of opera on cd which still seems to be the case unless you want something with Bocelli or Villazon/Netrebko.
So i turned to DVD and love them. I am a big fan of opera but i hardly get to go to the opera as i live in a country where opera is pretty non-existant. I have a busy job and seem to lack the patience to listen to cds so i prefer to put a dvd on in the evening.
More expensive...? Some, especially those from Opus Arte....and i am not convinced that we need 3 discs with lots of bloatware and pictures and a booklet in 4 or 5 languages. What i do like (i have said before)..is Belair Classique DVDs ......great productions from the European continent and an informative booklet with an interview with the director about their vision and ideas.
Some excellent DVDs and some real turkeys....got to read the reviews, look at the director and the year. I am not a big fan of Met productions from the 80's- they look so dated! I like modern eurotrash productions which stimulate the mind.
I have just been on a trip and found a shop doing 'buy one get one free' on opus arte and TDK.....so i came away with 14! Expensive in one go but sometimes there is nothing for months and months.
Another question would be, could someone get full enjoyment just listening and not understanding the words? Music is a universal language, but is Opera actually limited by its words? I think that because I have never read along to an Opera before that I instintively prefer other vocal forms of music: masses, oratorios, lieder, cantatas, and so on.
Quote from: LVB_opus.125 on June 07, 2008, 09:15:43 AM
Another question would be, could someone get full enjoyment just listening and not understanding the words? Music is a universal language, but is Opera actually limited by its words? I think that because I have never read along to an Opera before that I instintively prefer other vocal forms of music: masses, oratorios, lieder, cantatas, and so on.
My answer would be no. But equally I'd say the words are even more important in lieder and song. How on earth can one appreciate the songs of Wolf, for instance, without following the texts?
Quote from: LVB_opus.125 on June 07, 2008, 09:15:43 AM
Another question would be, could someone get full enjoyment just listening and not understanding the words?
Enjoyment, perhaps, but less than full.
For me the DVD provides the missing link...the interpretation. I have many versions of the Magic Flute on cd...some singers i like-and some i do not, some speeds of playing i like more than others etc....but i miss the interpretation. Ever bought a live cd and seen a great looking front cover, terrific photos inside....and wished that you could have seen it? At least with DVD you get the best of both worlds.
For me, Wagner has been a problem until i started watching the Ring Cycle on DVD.....now i love it.
Quote from: yashin on June 08, 2008, 03:38:56 AM
For me, Wagner has been a problem until i started watching the Ring Cycle on DVD.....now i love it.
I agree the best way to experience the Ring Cycle is to see it!
marvin
Well, due to recent interest in Wagner (specifically Das Rheingold and Die Walkure), I decided to check out my local opera (Manitoba Opera). The 2008/2009 is the MB Opera's 35th Anniversary. They only play 2 to 3 operas per season, likely due to popularity, although I'm not sure on that.
Anyways, I was shocked to see that in the entire history of the Manitoba Opera, only 1 Wagner opera ever played, being The Flying Dutchman! :o
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 17, 2008, 09:00:52 AM
due to recent interest in Wagner
You too? ;D In my case, it's as recent as two nights ago. I like the overtures and preludes, and
Siegfried Idyll, that I've been listening to on radio lately, and I was reading the few pages on Wagner from that book I borrowed from library which piqued my interest.
Quote from: opus67 on June 17, 2008, 10:14:49 AM
You too? ;D In my case, it's as recent as two nights ago. I like the overtures and preludes, and Siegfried Idyll, that I've been listening to on radio lately, and I was reading the few pages on Wagner from that book I borrowed from library which piqued my interest.
Siegfried Idyll, that's a beautiful piece! I'll have to get a good book on Wagner as well.
Quote from: marvinbrown on June 02, 2008, 01:07:35 AM
That makes two of us :o. Wherever did you find that horrendous production Josquin des Prez??
Note to Henk: Please please do not let this terrible opera production posted by Josquin discourage you from watching operas on DVD.
Um, so what exactly was so shocking in that clip? It's not even regie theatre, seems like more HIP performance than usual, LOL.
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 17, 2008, 09:00:52 AM
Anyways, I was shocked to see that in the entire history of the Manitoba Opera, only 1 Wagner opera ever played, being The Flying Dutchman! :o
That actually doesn't surprise me. Wagner's operas are very hard to cast--how many Heldentenors these days can really sing Siegfried?--and very demanding for the orchestra (all 100+ members of the orchestra! :o). Unless Manitoba has more and better singers than I think it does...
(Please: I'm not dissing Manitoba. Opera Colorado doesn't do much Wagner either.)
Quote from: Siedler on June 19, 2008, 01:31:39 PM
Um, so what exactly was so shocking in that clip? It's not even regie theatre, seems like more HIP performance than usual, LOL.
I agree with you. I thought the days when people were shocked by the naked human form were well and truly over.
Quote from: yashin on June 05, 2008, 02:37:31 AM
I used to collect opera on cd and have accumulated many versions of a whole variety of opera...i have 25 Madame Butterfly cds for example.
I thought I had a lot of Madame Butterfly recordings: LP's, CD's, and videotapes.
You win. (Gotta get some DVD's when I can afford them...)
ZB