After listening to Bartok's SQ no 2 earlier today I almost bought a set when browsing at my local shop, but since neither of them rang a bell I thought I'd better ask for recommendations here.
The ones I saw were the Emerson Quartet and the Vermeer Quartet, but other suggestions are more than welcome.
It would also be great if you could find the time to give a capsule review of your prefered recording, if only to make the thread more interesting to innocent bystanders. :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EZejaA%2BsL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JPDP2Y32L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Caveat: I've only heard a few sets: Emerson, Vegh, Keller, Juillards:
My personal favourite of these is the Vegh Quartet, who I think get the "Hungarian" rhythms absolutely perfectly. They tend to be at their best in the less modernist works, so I think the 3rd quartet is a little low on energy. The 4th starts slowly but it works in the context of the wild energy the Veghs produce later on, while their 6th is outstanding and really brings out the bitterness and sadness in the work.
I'd also strongly recommend the '60s Juillard (I have the Sony version): it's an extremely strong set with no weak links and idiomatic performances all around. I'd probably think of it as a better all-round selection for a first purchase, because of its consistently high quality.
I'm less keen on the other two: I find the Emersons do a great 3rd quartet but the others, for me, lack rhythmic nuance and flexibility--I don't find the music swings properly. The Kellers are more akin to the Veghs (but cheaper); they do a superb 2nd and 6th but the rest of the set doesn't draw me back.
This set (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,243.msg185786.html#msg185786) emerged in another thread on independent labels: the Vertavo String Quartet (on Simax), whose set is supposed to be excellent. (I haven't heard it yet, but it's gotten very good reviews.)
--Bruce
I've heard the Juilliard, the Vegh, The Alban Berg and the Fine Arts Quartet and it's the latter I prefer even if an older recording (reissued Music and Arts 3 CDs: CD1176). Some quartets play them with such polish that the nervous energy is lost.
Quote from: edward on June 05, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
I'd also strongly recommend the '60s Juillard (I have the Sony version): it's an extremely strong set with no weak links and idiomatic performances all around. I'd probably think of it as a better all-round selection for a first purchase, because of its consistently high quality.
I concur. It's been literally years since I did my last thorough review of Bartok SQs, so any specifics about performances and sonics would be less than accurate, I'm sure. However, the Juilliard (on LP) was the hands-down winner for my ears at the time and remains in my collection to this day. A single DGG LP of the Tokyo SQ doing #2 and #6 continues to impress every time I put it on, though for some reason I've never felt compelled to seek out their complete set of Bartok; the Tokyo's energy and finesse are both rather amazing but someone else will have to comment on their other Bartok SQs. I have, since those days, acquired the Emersons (on CD) but have reservations similar to Edward's about their performance. I also found a less-known set by the Tatrai Quartet (on old Dover LPs) which offered some very interesting performances indeed, but whose pressings were too riddled with flaws (alas!) to be true contenders for shelf space in the collection. Anyone know if these were ever put out on CD?
FWIW,
Dirk
There's a new set in town.
(http://www.belceaquartet.com/images/discography/bartok.jpg)
And it's the only one I currently own. I used to own the Naxos.
60s Juilliard and above all Tokyo on DG.
Quote from: James on June 05, 2008, 04:17:05 PM
Avoid Toyko's set despite any recommendations it's inferior and badly out of tune.
Which Tokyo? There's two sets going around, one of them being vastly inferior to the other.
Will be interested in this thread - not much to add @ the moment, sorry! I own the Emerson set (good deal from BMG music) - not bad, but something seems to be lacking - can't thoroughly enjoy these performances (is it the music and/or the performers?) - will enjoy reading the other recommendations - believe that I need another set for comparison (have only had some single discs in the past) - thanks to all for comments - :)
Quote from: SonicMan on June 05, 2008, 05:05:37 PM
Will be interested in this thread - not much to add @ the moment, sorry! I own the Emerson set (good deal from BMG music) - not bad, but something seems to be lacking - can't thoroughly enjoy these performances (is it the music and/or the performers?) - will enjoy reading the other recommendations - believe that I need another set for comparison (have only had some single discs in the past) - thanks to all for comments - :)
Ah, not always an easy question to answer, eh? :-\
Quote from: George on June 05, 2008, 05:56:29 PM
Ah, not always an easy question to answer, eh? :-\
Thanks,
George - you understand my point! :D I adore string chamber music (as many already may know), but some of these 20th century works (and not mentioning specific composers @ this point) just seem to often 'grate on my brain' as I listen, but still WANT to hear another interpretation of the Bartok works! ;) ;D
I like the Emerson set on DG. For whatever reason, it works for me.
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 05, 2008, 07:24:36 PM
I like the Emerson set on DG. For whatever reason, it works for me.
It's one I enjoy, as well.
Vegh is good, too. And Takacs.
Quote from: James on June 05, 2008, 04:17:05 PM
Takacs has it's moments but lacks the intensity & insight necessary for these works and all the details are offensively fudged with crappy production values, so avoid it.
Agreed, horrible stuff.
I have the 50's Juilliard traversal, which is a fabulous set (the first recorded cycle by a SQ?), very intense. The recording is very dry though. Their 60's set is a glowing omission in my Juillard discography, been meaning to order it from HMV Japan for a while. I also own the Keller's set which contrasts very nicely and the 'Bergs', but just find they make the music very mechanical. The Hungarian SQ has been ordered, so will hopefully have that soon...
Quote from: SonicMan on June 05, 2008, 07:18:12 PM
Thanks, George - you understand my point! :D I adore string chamber music (as many already may know), but some of these 20th century works (and not mentioning specific composers @ this point) just seem to often 'grate on my brain' as I listen, but still WANT to hear another interpretation of the Bartok works! ;) ;D
That's why I like this forum, I get one interpretation that is highly recommended and that sounds enjoyable from samples - and if I don't enjoy it, I move on. I don't need to like everything. Incidentally, I really like my Takacs set.
Anyone familiar with Tatrai?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NB9MV8QSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2008, 03:28:47 AM
Anyone familiar with Tatrai?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NB9MV8QSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
No, but I would like to be! Is that still available?
Quote from: Peregrine on June 06, 2008, 03:42:06 AM
No, but I would like to be! Is that still available?
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1523856&style=classical
http://www.amazon.com/Bartók-String-Quartets-6-Divertimento/dp/B00000309I
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6403023?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2008, 03:55:30 AM
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6403023?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist
Oof! 43 euros!
Quote from: karlhenning on June 06, 2008, 03:58:04 AM
Oof! 43 euros!
http://www.amazon.de/Bartok-String-Quartet-No-4/dp/B00000309I
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2008, 03:28:47 AM
Anyone familiar with Tatrai?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NB9MV8QSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I presume this is the same set I mentioned above. I acquired the Tatrai on old Dover LPs, not that long ago, and what I've been able to hear so far is quite interesting. Problem is, I really haven't heard that much yet: bad surface noise has prevented me from seriously assessing the performances. Need to attack these with a scrub brush and my trusty old Nitty Gritty to see if they're salvageable or only good as landfill fodder. I'd love to say that I'll do that this weekend, then listen and report--but my wife has this long honey-do list that has nothing to do with records or music...
::)
Dirk
My favorites are the Vegh (Naive), Takacs (Decca), and Emerson. Down a level are the Hungarian Quartet, the Juilliard 60s recordings, and the first Vegh cycle.
Some to steer clear of are the Lindsays, Chilingirian, and Penderecki. (Though the last ensemble listed does bring a briefly interesting, almost Brahmsian sound to the first two quartets.)
That new Belcea set has its moments - the first quartet definitely not among them - but lacks that something special. Still a nice listen.
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2008, 04:00:57 AM
http://www.amazon.de/Bartok-String-Quartet-No-4/dp/B00000309I
Thanks, Drasko.
Wasn't aware they had done the Bartok SQ's, will consider for the future.
Quote from: dirkronk on June 06, 2008, 05:09:35 AM
I presume this is the same set I mentioned above. I acquired the Tatrai on old Dover LPs, not that long ago, and what I've been able to hear so far is quite interesting. Problem is, I really haven't heard that much yet: bad surface noise has prevented me from seriously assessing the performances. Need to attack these with a scrub brush and my trusty old Nitty Gritty to see if they're salvageable or only good as landfill fodder. I'd love to say that I'll do that this weekend, then listen and report--but my wife has this long honey-do list that has nothing to do with records or music...
::)
Dirk
Keep us posted, at
your Mrs. Ronk leisure, of course ;D
Emerson quartet for intense performance and Keller quartet for a more smooth but darker approach.
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2008, 10:22:37 AM
Keep us posted, at your Mrs. Ronk leisure, of course ;D
;D
Here's a question:
I have the chance to listen live to the 1st, 3rd and 5th of these quartets from the hungarian (aptly-named) Bartók Quartet.
This would be my introduction to the works, my only prior exposure to the composer being "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta".
Do I go for it? Not that I'd anyway pass a nice opportunity for any (good) live chamber music, but I'd still welcome your views. :)
Quote from: Renfield on June 08, 2008, 07:49:37 PM
I have the chance to listen live to the 1st, 3rd and 5th of these quartets from the hungarian (aptly-named) Bartók Quartet.
This would be my introduction to the works, my only prior exposure to the composer being "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta".
Do I go for it? Not that I'd anyway pass a nice opportunity for any (good) live chamber music, but I'd still welcome your views. :)
Sounds like a "must go" recital - the SQs are great, but also very accessable. Even the 1st isn't trash, despite not being up there with the last 4.
Caimen has the Jiulliard 60's cycle, though I can't find it at Tower.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Julliard-String-Quartet/dp/B000P6RB88
Thanks to all whom have posted! It's been a very informative thread so far. A quick collation of the recommendations show that the Emersons and the '60s Juliards are in the lead with several recommendations each.
Surprisingly there are relatively few reviews on the usual websites (either that or my google-fu is failing me).
The Vermeer Quartet get a decent review on musicweb "some very good things in and among, but ultimately not enough bite and attack to make it truly memorable" (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/July05/Bartok_8557543.htm) and JedDistler on CT seems to share the sentiment and gives a 8/10 (http://classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=8939).
The Belcea Quartet also get a luke-warm evaluation by Jed Distler: "[their] Bartók may not add up to a first choice reference edition, yet collectors won't want to miss its finest moments." (http://classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11576) while Michael Cookson on MW is more positive but still prefers the Takács "[the] String Quartets are decently recorded and splendidly performed [...]. However by some distance the set from the Takács onDecca is the one to have." (http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classRev/2008/Apr08/Bartok_sq_3944002.htm)
Dominy Clements of Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Bartok_Quartets_2564626862.htm) gives the Keller Quartet's (budget) release a good review but still prefers the Takács'.
Gramophone to the rescue then, their review of the Vermeer Quartet's cycle (http://gramophone.co.uk/gramofilereview.asp?reviewID=200214061&mediaID=215997&issue=Reviewed%3A+Gramophone+7%2F2005) ("It's a lovely set to have in reserve but I couldn't make it a top recommendation – there's too little 'edge' for that") gives links to reviews of most the other suspects
The general feeling I get from the review sites is that most seem to prefer the Takács Quartet on Decca rather than the Emersons or the Juliards but several reviewers thinks highly of them all. As usual I'm more confused now than when I began, albeit on a higher and more informed level. God job then that Bartók weren't as productive as, say, Haydn, most cycles aren't that expensive.
Quote from: rickardg on June 10, 2008, 07:52:01 AM
The general feeling I get from the review sites is that most seem to prefer the Takács Quartet on Decca rather than the Emersons or the Juliards but several reviewers thinks highly of them all. As usual I'm more confused now than when I began, albeit on a higher and more informed level. God job then that Bartók weren't as productive as, say, Haydn, most cycles aren't that expensive.
That was the impression I got as well when I was in the market for a set of these quartets. I bought the Takacs set and haven't looked back. Haven't even considered a second set. $:)
Have you sampled them at all?
Quote from: rickardg on June 10, 2008, 07:52:01 AM
The Belcea Quartet also get a luke-warm evaluation by Jed Distler: "[their] Bartók may not add up to a first choice reference edition, yet collectors won't want to miss its finest moments." (http://classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11576)
Read Gramophone's.
Quote from: George on June 10, 2008, 07:55:15 AM
Have you sampled them at all?
Not really (busy private life and slow work has meant little listening but lots of web surfing, hence the over-researched post), I've listened some more to the Vermeers who "sound good to me", I will check what's available at the library as well.
Quote from: mn dave on June 10, 2008, 08:13:22 AM
Read Gramophone's.
Aha, "the Belcea's brilliant Bartók beats the best" (http://gramophone.co.uk/gramofilereview.asp?reviewID=0&mediaID=229983&type=edschoice&edsdate=01/05/2008). I couldn't find it in their own search engine, had to use google.
Gramophone seems to have covered most of the bases, e g positive takes on the Hagen Qt (http://gramophone.co.uk/gramofilereview.asp?reviewID=8027&mediaID=187901&issue=Reviewed%3A+Gramophone+8%2F2000): "in the front rank" and on the Keller Qt (http://gramophone.co.uk/gramofilereview.asp?reviewID=9602055&mediaID=35163&issue=Reviewed%3A+Gramophone+2%2F1996).
Bumped. I know I'm going to need this soon.
Best 1-2?
I recall the Chilingirian.
ack...no one cares :'(...
Emerson SQ or Takacs
Concerning Bartok No.3:
I'm no great fan of the Emerson, but their brutal style seems to work wonders in the "barbaric" passages of these SQs. I used to have the Takacs, but have forgotten how they sound (I knooow that they are great, but, as compared to the Emersons, I forget how "vigorous" they are)
A) Is anyone else as bloodthirsty?
B) SQ No.3 is very important to me, and the Emersons here just knock my socks off (I just don't want their 1-2). Do the Takacs really match the Emerson here? Is there another No.3 that balances the "folk/demonic"? Why am I curious about the Hagen?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 18, 2009, 09:52:23 AM
Concerning Bartok No.3:
I'm no great fan of the Emerson, but their brutal style seems to work wonders in the "barbaric" passages of these SQs. I used to have the Takacs, but have forgotten how they sound (I knooow that they are great, but, as compared to the Emersons, I forget how "vigorous" they are)
From my experience, on an overall basis, I prefer the Emerson's over Takacs by the slimmest of margins. However, I do prefer the Takacs 4th over the Emersons.
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 18, 2009, 09:54:08 AM
From my experience, on an overall basis, I prefer the Emerson's over Takacs by the slimmest of margins. However, I do prefer the Takacs 4th over the Emersons.
Considering the 4th is my favorite of the set... hummm...
I have the Arditti in No.4, and it is amazingly aenemic. ???whaaa?...
Simply uncompetetive. From the very first notes (compared to Emerson for instance) one is shocked by the lack of jet fuel. Other mvmts. fare better, but you just can't start this SQ off in such a manner. By comparison, the Emerson hit the intro just so.
Which recordings? Emerson, Julliard, Takacs, Hungarian... I'm clueless.
:D
Here's a nice thread that covered this on the old board. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9097.0.html)
Not that we're limited to that...
But still for me: Takacs, Emerson, Vegh (Naïve).
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 27, 2009, 07:01:02 PM
Here's a nice thread that covered this on the old board. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9097.0.html)
Not that we're limited to that...
But still for me: Takacs, Emerson, Vegh (Naïve).
Muchas gracias ;D
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 27, 2009, 07:01:02 PM
Here's a nice thread that covered this on the old board. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9097.0.html)
And a thread from the present board (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7875.0.html). Bonus: this one has snyprrr in it. ;)
Someone from this forum ( I forget who) put me on to a recording of the 3rd by The New Music String Quartet which is, quite simply, one of the most musical and perfect chamber recordings I know. You can get it here (and while you're at it pick up their Beethoven CD which is in a similar league):
http://www.bartokrecords.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=63
I also have and very much enjoy the second of the surveys by the Juilliard.
I also have and very much don't enjot the Tokyo set. Would anyone like to buy it from me?
Quote from: Mandryka on November 27, 2009, 09:48:26 PM
Someone from this forum ( I forget who) put me on to a recording of the 3rd by The New Music String Quartet which is, quite simply, one of the most musical and perfect chamber recordings I know. You can get it here (and while you're at it pick up their Beethoven CD which is in a similar league):
Yeah, cracking disc that and a cracking ensemble all round.
I'ld go with the Juilliard SQ (50's and 60's), Tatrai and Keller, but do try and get thsoe New Music SQ recordings if you can...
Quote from: Opus106 on November 27, 2009, 09:39:22 PM
Bonus: this one has snyprrr in it. ;)
That means all bases are definitely covered! 8)
Quote from: RexRichter on November 27, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
Which recordings? Emerson, Julliard, Takacs, Hungarian... I'm clueless.
Well, the
Emerson & Takacs SQs receive plenty of the top votes - I've owned the Emersons for a while, and earlier in the year added the re-released
Keller Quartet, a steal on the Apex label in the Amazon Marketplace for $12 - I enjoy their performance (somewhat warmer & less grating than the Emersons, but really depends on how you like Bela's SQs played?) - a review on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Bartok_Quartets_2564626862.htm) (w/ Takacs as the comparison recording which I probably should hear myself!) - good luck in your selection(s) - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BartokSQs/568929827_nh5Tm-O.jpg)
You guys! ::)
1) Chilingirian 3/4/5: I remember enjoying this years ago.
2) Fine Arts have been getting great reviews on Amazon.
3) Still looking for an alternative to the Emerson's No.3, something just as bloodthirsty.
4) Still considering Chilingirian for 1-2.
4) Bartok seems to be one of the most difficult composers to get his SQs just so, no?
5) I'm disappointed that there appears not to be that many absolutely obsessive/compulsives here, who feel compelled to get everything. I want more people to be willing to part with their trust funds! Hey, I'm doing my part! I'm just frustrated because there are JUST 6 SQs here. Why is it so difficult, people, to get a cornucopia of awesome versions? Why couldn't the Belcea or Vermeer just play it the way WE KNOW that they should? Why don't these performers understand that we know better than they (just like our government knows how to spend my money better than I do!)?
I want perfect sound.
I want perfect interpretation.
It's onlt 6 SQs!!! Why aren't there 5-6 sets that should any one of them knock our socks off? It's 2009!!! Get with the program, people, and give us perfect stuff. We have no time for ANYTHING less than 100%, absolutely,... PERFECT. Why should this be a big wish? Any group who come out with a less than perfect set should be severely,... well, I don't know what, but they should surely be severely something. Hrrrmph! >:D
... ve have vays...
My Bartok disc by the Ebene SQ arrived today, really good. I'm thinking Juilliard SQ from the 50's in obviously much better sound:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Sc7cmws%2BL._SS400_.jpg)
What a cracking ensemble they are though, love to hear them live...
I find these to be very good - Tokyo String Quartet - but not to replace Takacs or Emerson.
(http://a1.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/041/Music/4f/dc/7c/mzi.zsqbnogf.170x170-75.jpg)
I have the Vegh and like them too - but of all I think the Emerson is my favorite.
Quote from: Peregrine on January 27, 2010, 10:36:53 AM
My Bartok disc by the Ebene SQ arrived today, really good.
Did not know about this disc. Looks
most interesting. Perhaps I will investigate . . .
Quote from: Peregrine on January 27, 2010, 10:36:53 AM
My Bartok disc by the Ebene SQ arrived today, really good. I'm thinking Juilliard SQ from the 50's in obviously much better sound:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Sc7cmws%2BL._SS400_.jpg)
What a cracking ensemble they are though, love to hear them live...
The recording is not new (from 2007) why did they record only 1-3? Or had the other half been deleted from the catalog already?
Quote from: James on January 27, 2010, 01:46:50 PM
They're probably workin' their way toward those last 3 ...
Considering they're now have two EMI releases under their belt, I wouldn't hold my breath.
I have only one recording of the Bartoks, the Novak Quartet (on a Philips Duo).
Quote from: Air on November 27, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
Which recordings? Emerson, Julliard, Takacs, Hungarian... I'm clueless.
:D
Julliard.
Quote from: Renfield on June 08, 2008, 07:49:37 PM
Here's a question:
I have the chance to listen live to the 1st, 3rd and 5th of these quartets from the hungarian (aptly-named) Bartók Quartet.
This would be my introduction to the works, my only prior exposure to the composer being "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta".
Do I go for it? Not that I'd anyway pass a nice opportunity for any (good) live chamber music, but I'd still welcome your views. :)
Two and a half years later. I was just wondering if you are continuing to explore Bartok's music?