GMG Classical Music Forum

Which recording?

Which one do you have?

I don't have anyone. But I heard it live and was very impressed. There are so many versions available, so I need some recommendation.

Henk

Quote from: Henk on July 10, 2008, 04:06:10 PM
I don't have anyone. But I heard it live and was very impressed. There are so many versions available, so I need some recommendation.

Henk

Of that are readily available and are reasonably priced are:

Sanderling/Hanssler
Chailly/Decca
Boehm/DG
Giulini/DG
Karajan/DG
Skrowazewski/Arte Nova

All of them are excellent and you should find them very rewarding.

For me? Karajan, hands-down, either on EMI:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M7JG3YJ2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Or later, on DG:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X18SP9ZEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


The EMI is beautiful, where the DG is sincere. Both in my view, of course.


Otherwise, there are a great many excellent Bruckner 7ths around, all with something to say; for example, the recent Haitink effort:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cYFMJveyL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)



Or in complete cycles, like Jochum's (either on DG or EMI). By all means, sample around! :)


Edit: Clarification - I meant that the Haitink had something to say, not that it is excellent. Unclear syntax on my part.

PW's list contains three that are just superb. Coincidentally they are all on the DG label. Get one of them, or all three!

The Staatskapelle Dresden under Blomstedt is my own favourite (Denon). Lucid, clear as a bell and probing the music's nooks and crannies as well as any. I don't think the orchestra has been surpassed in this work. The recording is absolutely gorgeous: transparent, wide in range, analytical and warm at the same time.

For a more urgent, tougher view, Schuricht (The Hague Orch.) or Gielen (SWR Baden-Baden Orch.) are brilliantly conceived and worth seeking.

I don't recommend the EMI Karajan on account of the glossy sound. It obscures a lot of important wind details. The scherzo is just a blur of blowsy brass, glitzy strings and echo-chamber timpani. The BPO sounds like a synthetic orchestra, unlike anything you could hear in a concert hall.  If you must have Karajan, his WP account is magnificent. If you must have the BPO, get Jochum. The latter's SD version is also superb, but I think the sound has dated. The same orchestra sound incomparably better on  Denon.

Also Wand/BPO on RCA Victor. If you don't mind the edgy, razor-sharp brass, that is.

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on July 10, 2008, 07:13:50 PM
I don't recommend the EMI Karajan on account of the glossy sound. It obscures a lot of important wind details. The scherzo is just a blur of blowsy brass, glitzy strings and echo-chamber timpani. The BPO sounds like a synthetic orchestra, unlike anything you could hear in a concert hall.  If you must have Karajan, his WP account is magnificent. If you must have the BPO, get Jochum. The latter's SD version is also superb, but I think the sound has dated. The same orchestra sound incomparably better on  Denon.

I wouldn't say "incomparably" because the sound is very good, but it also sounds a little "early digital" which some may perceive just as much as a problem (small or big, depending on one's view) as the slightly harsh and bright, rather reverberant sound on Jochum's Dresden recording. Which may not ideal either, but I don't find it too "dated" to listen to and enjoy it. Even better though does the SD sound on Sinopoli's recording which is also on the reverberant side (same venue, the Lukaskirche for all 3 recordings), but it is not shrill at all, on the contrary, DG managed to capture the golden, warm, and sometimes very sharply outlined sound of the orchestra extremely well. From a sheer sonic beauty point of view, this is one of the nicest recordings I have ever heard. It is also a very distinguished performance which ranges from very lyrical and finely detailed to gigantic, roof-raising climaxes. So that would be one of my top recommendations, but I also enhoy Blomstedt's and Jochum's Dresden recordings a lot.

I disagree about the sound of the EMI Karajan, yes, it sounds a little cavernous and has some "glitzy" moments, but overall, it does sound rather more natural, more like the "real thing" than Karajan's DG recording with the BP. Still, I also think his last recording (literally) with the WP is his best, and it is also one of the bet sounding.

There are many very good versions of this symphony, but a little "secret tip" because it is not a recording that is often mentioned because it is apparently not well known is Dohnányi's recording with the Cleveland Orchestra (Decca) which is a lean and refined account, but with a lot of "sinew and muscle" nonetheless, and it is musically outstanding. Every detail is shaped and sounded.

And of course, more truly great Bruckner performances come from Vienna, the DG recordings with Böhm and with Giulini, both are outstanding in every respect.

My favorite version: Karl Böhm with the VPO. Slow but powerful, with a sublime phrasing in the Adagio. The orchestra is extraordinary.

All the other versions that I like (Jochum, Furtwängler, Haitink, Klemperer) seem pale compared to Böhm.

Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/26/434526.jpg)

I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

Someone knowing this one?:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/superd_1057717.jpg)

It's cheap and also contains the 4th.

Quote from: Henk on July 11, 2008, 01:27:48 AM
Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/26/434526.jpg)

I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

This is the Boehm Bruckner 7th I have:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WR7WF4D0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I have not heard the earlier one but probably you should get the stereo one first because the sonics are likely far superior. There is also another Boehm 7th with the Bavarian Radio SO on Audite that a lot of members here love but I have not heard. In any case I think Boehm is a peerless Bruckner conductor and you are unlikely not to be moved by his readings.

Wand should also be heard regardless, whether you want to go with his earlier Cologne reading, his middle NDR reading, or his later Berlin reading is probably of secondary importance. Wand is just one of those guys whose Bruckner just sounds so "right" on many aspects. It just sounds like music and sound of another world.

Quote from: Henk on July 11, 2008, 01:27:48 AM
Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/26/434526.jpg)

I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

Someone knowing this one?:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/superd_1057717.jpg)

It's cheap and also contains the 4th.

I believe the earlier Böhm recording is from 1943 rather than 1948. I haven't heard it, but in any case, it will be more of historical interest than as an "entry" version. The one on DG from 1976 is what you should get. Also look out for the WP/Giulini, SD/Sinopoli and SD/Blomstedt versions and see if you find a good deal on those, then strike mercilessly. These are all outstanding recordings.

Forget the Barenboim stuff. He doesn't have much to "say" about Bruckner and adopts a generally "grandiose" attitude which may sound OK on the sruface but there isn't much musical depth there. Plus the playing of the orchestra, especially the brass which play every single note completely sustained and straight as if it was sampled sounds on a keyboard, is about as unstylish as it can get. Supported by DG bright and compact sound, this caters to the misunderstanding that Bruckner's music is just for brass band with a few other instruments in the background.

I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Someone knowing these ones?:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/02/1008802.jpg)

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/420/428729.jpg)

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/526436.jpg)

Quote from: Henk on July 11, 2008, 11:18:22 AM
I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Which WP are you referring to here?

Quote from: Henk on July 11, 2008, 11:18:22 AM
I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Someone knowing these ones?:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/02/1008802.jpg)

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/420/428729.jpg)

I have a 4th and 8th with Tennstedt/LPO and they are quite good, very well presented and free of eccentricities but I really can't say they are special in any way.

THe sound on the FUrtwangler(depending on the transfer I guess) is absolutely ghastly. Even for 1951 the sound is unacceptable. In general I finde Furtwangler's Bruckner too sloppy. Again, it is probably of historical interest but shouldn't be your 1st or 2nd 7th I don't think.

I can't emphasisze enough how astoundingly beautiful the Skrowaczewski recording on Arte Nova/Oehm is. If you ever see it don't pass it up.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2008, 11:29:18 AM
Which WP are you referring to here?

I mean the Bohm, '76.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2008, 11:29:18 AM
I have a 4th and 8th with Tennstedt/LPO and they are quite good, very well presented and free of eccentricities but I really can't say they are special in any way.

THe sound on the FUrtwangler(depending on the transfer I guess) is absolutely ghastly. Even for 1951 the sound is unacceptable. In general I finde Furtwangler's Bruckner too sloppy. Again, it is probably of historical interest but shouldn't be your 1st or 2nd 7th I don't think.

I can't emphasisze enough how astoundingly beautiful the Skrowaczewski recording on Arte Nova/Oehm is. If you ever see it don't pass it up.

I've searched further and can get that recording! E. 8,-, reissued on Harmonia Mundi. And I order the Bohm also for E. 5,-.

Henk

I haven't (ever) listened to the Sinopoli SD version  :-[. I have his 5 and 9 (just recently acquired and still unlistened to) as well as the Böhm SOBR (Audite) which I found cheap in Europe last month. I remember having been mightily impressed by the Chailly Decca, but heard it only once, some 15 years ago. I can't recommend it based on that very incomplete experience. Reacquaintance is definitely in order. I'll post my impressions on the Böhm in due course (I also bought the 8th from the same provenance)

There are many other good 7ths out there, including the two Philips Haitink releases (very lucid and 'strict', with a penchant for directness in the first version that some hear as plainness or even indifference - he's more glowing and conventionally grand in the second Amsterdam recording), Nézet-Séguin (wonderfully akin to the "pure, innocent' world of Mahler 4, while still managing to fill the structure with gorgeously virile sounds), and no doubt many others. Of interest to completists are the versions by van Otterloo, Schuricht Stuttgart, Ormandy-Minneapolis and Toscanini NYP. All bring very different POVs on the music, but the force of their artistic personality manages to make each convincing in their own way. Each is also compromised by dated recording and/or embarrassing orchestral flubs.

I would have to listen anew to Sanderling and Furtwängler to firm up my opinion (based on a couple of listenings). On initial acquaintance I didn't feel much connection with the music in the Boulez WP: very well played, but his kind of clearheaded, no-nonsense and unsentimental view is much more convincingly put across by Gielen and Schuricht, who manage to stamp their personality on the proceedings, something Boulez woefully fails to do (he's much better at that in the 8th). A few listenings (3-4?) to the Stuttgart Celibidache (DG) still leave me wondering what the fuss is about. I din't hear the EMI one.

M, regarding the sound on the EMI Karajan: I find damning the haziness and lost-in-the-distance wind lines in the Scherzo. The important clarinet figurations might as well have been recorded on the other side of the Berlin Wall. Compare to just about any of the really well engineered one to hear what I mean. Even some 'historic' recordings bring them much more clearly than here. In concert Bruckner's clarinets and bassoons come across perfectly well. Bruckner knew exactly how to orchestrate for winds, which makes every single note or phrase for these instruments absolutely indispensable for the clarity of argument and fullness of harmonies. That is sacrificed in the EMI recording. The same could be said of the EMI Karajan 4th - a contemporaneous recording. Both were issued together in a 3 lp box which I had on my shelves for two decades. But somehow the grand, grand vistas of the 'Romantic' respond better to the Cinerama treatment than the 7th's more diaphanous sound world.

Riccardo Chailly's with the Radio Symphony Orchestra of Berlin on London/Decca can be had dirt cheap on the used market and it's outstanding in most every respect.

"most every respect" is an oxymoron. Could you clarify?

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on July 12, 2008, 05:39:50 PM
"most every respect" is an oxymoron. Could you clarify?

I suspect he meant "almost". :)

Quote from: Renfield on July 10, 2008, 04:41:36 PM
Otherwise, there are a great many excellent Bruckner 7ths around, all with something to say; for example, the recent Haitink effort:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cYFMJveyL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I was in two of the concerts in which that was recorded (it must be edited together from several nights, probably all four, because in both concerts that I was in, Friday and Saturday, there were several fairly serious booboos) and didn't find at all that it had "something to say". I was disappointed by the facelessness and lack of musical style of these playthroughs. Haitink had apparently tried to tone down the notorious brass a little, but the result was that is simply sounded thin and pale most of the time, until he allowed them to play louder when they did their best to drown everything else out. That suddenly started in the 3rd movement, maybe that was part of Haitink's "dramatic concept", who knows. Several key passages, like the funeral music for all the horns at the end of the slow movement, simply didn't happen, the horns had some serious intonation problems and there, where "great tone" is really needed, they sounded strangely subdued and thinnish.

Quote from: M forever on July 12, 2008, 05:48:57 PM
I was in two of the concerts in which that was recorded (it must be edited together from several nights, probably all four, because in both concerts that I was in, Friday and Saturday, there were several fairly serious booboos) and didn't find at all that it had "something to say". I was disappointed by the facelessness and lack of musical style of these playthroughs. Haitink had apparently tried to tone down the notorious brass a little, but the result was that is simply sounded thin and pale most of the time, until he allowed them to play louder when they did their best to drown everything else out. That suddenly started in the 3rd movement, maybe that was part of Haitink's "dramatic concept", who knows. Several key passages, like the funeral music for all the horns at the end of the slow movement, simply didn't happen, the horns had some serious intonation problems and there, where "great tone" is really needed, they sounded strangely subdued and thinnish.

"Something to say" is in this case what you describe as this "toning down", faceless or otherwise.

This Haitink is far from being my favourite version, but it came up in my mind when I was looking for different styles of Bruckner 7ths exactly because I found it low-key, but quite aurally attractive. (That is to say, I find it a good - but not great - Bruckner 7th.)

Therefore, it seemingly had an opinion. Possibly not the best one; certainly different from my beloved Karajan/VPO recording. But my point was that the OP could try and see what style of Bruckner 7th he enjoys.


Which reminds me, is the Blomstedt version anywhere in print? In any version?

I've heard about how it was once such a benchmark, but never heard the recording itself, alas.


Edit: Correction and apology is in order, as I just realised I'd put the Haitink under the apparent header "excellent". Mea culpa, I should've made the distinction plainer (I was thinking of the Jochum example).

Original post corrected. Goes to show one can never be too clear about one's syntax - particularly in one's own head. 8)

Quote from: Renfield on July 12, 2008, 06:09:58 PM
"Something to say" is in this case what you describe as this "toning down", faceless or otherwise.

This Haitink is far from being my favourite version, but it came up in my mind when I was looking for different styles of Bruckner 7ths exactly because I found it low-key, but quite aurally attractive. (That is to say, I find it a good - but not great - Bruckner 7th.)

Therefore, it seemingly had an opinion. Possibly not the best one; certainly different from my beloved Karajan/VPO recording. But my point was that the OP could try and see what style of Bruckner 7th he enjoys.

There are many drastically better examples for that kind of "low key", as opposed to the more "grandiose" type of Bruckner performance - among them Haitink's two earlier recordings which are orchestrally much better. What the performances I atteneded really lacked was the feeling that the orchestra really shaped phrases, made musical points, spoke with a musical voice rather than just played the the notes. I almost desperatly listened for at least some personality in the wind playing, but apart from the solo flute which did play rather eloquent, there was next to none. The music just doodled along without "saying" anything. Everything was rather unspecific and lacked a defniitive musical "gestalt". I am sure they have edited this together well and made it sound somehow "nice", but musically, what I heard was a complete non-event. I even went again the next day, after all, I was in Chicago only 3 days and didn't have anything better to do, and also I wanted to get another impression. Plus I sat in different places of the hall on the two nights to get a better idea of what the sound is like from various perspectives. But the second night was just as mediocre and uninteresting.
Before the intermission, BTW, the concertmaster of the orchestra played Lutoslawski's Chain II and that was very good, well rehearsed with a lot of fine detail. But when it came to the Bruckner symphony, the orchestra didn't play it as if they even knew the piece well. It sounded very uneasy and conceptless. Most of the notes in the right places, but not much convincing coherence.

Quote from: Renfield on July 12, 2008, 06:09:58 PM
Which reminds me, is the Blomstedt version anywhere in print? In any version?

That's a much better example for a very good "low key" performance. Another one is Dohnányi's slender and articulate and musically very nuanced recording with the Cleveland Orchestra.

Quote from: moldyoldie on July 12, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
Riccardo Chailly's with the Radio Symphony Orchestra of Berlin on London/Decca can be had dirt cheap on the used market and it's outstanding in most every respect.

Chailly is not my cup of tea. But I have not many recordings of Bruckners 7th. I have both Jochum recordings of Emi and DGG and the Chailly. And I know Karajan. The Jochum is certainly controversible. Jochums recording is certainly very interesting, accelerandos and ritertandos in a nearly Furtwänglerian way. There are people who hates that. I love it. I love it because for me the whole thing is completely convincing. Chailly on the other hand has very good sound and reasonable tempi but for me it is completely boring alongside the Jochum which is for me the high art of interpretation. I once heard the late Karajan but didn't like that as well. I hope I see the whole thing right, for example I don't know weather the comparison to Furtwängler is really right, I am only an amateur, a music lover, not a musician but the important point is: I like the Jochum and I don't like the Chailly. The Jochum of Emi is now Brilliant and pretty cheap in the complete box of symphonies and I am especially convinced by the 4th, 7th, 8th and 9th.

Regards Martin

Quote from: Martin Lind on July 12, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
Chailly is not my cup of tea. But I have not many recordings of Bruckners 7th. I have both Jochum recordings of Emi and DGG and the Chailly. And I know Karajan. The Jochum is certainly controversible. Jochums recording is certainly very interesting, accelerandos and ritertandos in a nearly Furtwänglerian way. There are people who hates that. I love it. I love it because for me the whole thing is completely convincing. Chailly on the other hand has very good sound and reasonable tempi but for me it is completely boring alongside the Jochum which is for me the high art of interpretation. I once heard the late Karajan but didn't like that as well. I hope I see the whole thing right, for example I don't know weather the comparison to Furtwängler is really right, I am only an amateur, a music lover, not a musician but the important point is: I like the Jochum and I don't like the Chailly. The Jochum of Emi is now Brilliant and pretty cheap in the complete box of symphonies and I am especially convinced by the 4th, 7th, 8th and 9th.

Regards Martin

If I may be so bold, Jochum makes Bruckner "fun" to listen to with his constant bending and shaping of the composer's architecture; one never knows what to expect next!  I agree that Chailly's Seventh is hardly "inventive" in that regard, but if one seeks a well-grounded, well-played, and well-recorded introduction to this sprawling work (sprawling? Bruckner? naaah!) that weaves finely around well-judged medians and exudes a sense of inevitability, or what seasoned listeners may deem "boring", it certainly fits the bill.

Quote from: M forever on July 12, 2008, 06:30:43 PM
That's a much better example for a very good "low key" performance. Another one is Dohnányi's slender and articulate and musically very nuanced recording with the Cleveland Orchestra.

I've listened to neither. My 7ths are mostly of the other "cut". Although I do have a Philips Haitink one, somewhere - never listened to it. :(

Edit: I'd bought the entire cycle to hear the 6th, and then other listening came up, and I didn't explore the set fully.

Maybe that is why an otherwise sub-par Haitink would make an impression on me. As I said (and I'll repeat), it was just the first non-grandiose agreeable Bruckner 7th that came to mind.

Therefore both noted, Blomstedt and Dohnányi: a goof excuse for me to properly explore the concept of the low-key 7th.

A "low-key 7th" - or any "low-key Bruckner" is...well, what is it exactly? If I guess right, I'd say it is defined by unforced pacing, natural balances and a refusal to pump up the volume at nodal points. Which doesn't mean it's unexciting or dull. When Bruckner writes mountainously grand vistas for the orchestra to play, it does the music no service to italicize and heat it up to boiling point. Orchestras that have the sound and style in their blood, and conductors that have that insight cannot really produce anything but unforced, natural Bruckner. Or "low-key Bruckner".

Vienna, Leipzig and Dresden and maybe Munich BRSO, and Amsterdam, and conductors like Wand, Böhm and Blomstedt come to mind. Lesser known kapellmeisters like Stein, Leitner, Keilberth, Suitner, Bongartz also produced natural but big, weighty Bruckner.

Of course there is the other kind of maestros who also deliver great Bruckner, but most often it's anything but low key: Furtwängler, Giulini, Karajan, Jochum. The latter in his old age became more 'low key', letting the music unfold with majesty and unforced grandeur, without any need to manipulate tempos and dynamics. His last recordings of the 8th and 9th (Bamberg and Munich PO respectively). ey are his most satisfying interpretations, and among the best ever.

Some conductors try to impose their personality to Bruckner's music, and it generally does not work. Results may be interesting, impressive, even thrillling, but in the end it's not the St-Florian master's work.

I did not intend "low-key" as a pejorative term, if that was unclear. It was an ad hoc term to distinguish between different "cuts" of Bruckner interpretation, as there seems to be a consensus that they exist: Wand versus Karajan, if you will, to cite more familiar examples (to me).

Of the recordings I have of this symphony, my favorites are:

Karajan/VPO (DG)
Sanderling/SWR Radio Symphony Orchestra of Stuttgart
Nézet-Séguin/Orchestre Métropolitain du Grand Montréal
Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden

As for the recent Haitink/CSO recording, I would rank it near the bottom, as I found it incredibly boring.

I don't mean to derail the topic a little but can someone tell me about the cymbal crash and extra percussion in the Adagio? According to here (http://www.geocities.com/dkgriegel/versions.html) (you have to scoll down to the 7th symphony) it says:

Most noticeably, Haas left out the cymbal crash, triangle roll, and tympani in the Adagio, whereas the other editions include these parts.

Now I am a bit confused. Karajan and Celibidache both uses the Haas edition and they both have the cymbal crash and percussion (don't remember if Karajan has the triangle or not), and Wand and Harnoncourt also use the Haas and neither has the cymbal crash.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 14, 2008, 06:15:43 AM
I don't mean to derail the topic a little but can someone tell me about the cymbal crash and extra percussion in the Adagio? According to here (http://www.geocities.com/dkgriegel/versions.html) (you have to scoll down to the 7th symphony) it says:

Most noticeably, Haas left out the cymbal crash, triangle roll, and tympani in the Adagio, whereas the other editions include these parts.

Now I am a bit confused. Karajan and Celibidache both uses the Haas edition and they both have the cymbal crash and percussion (don't remember if Karajan has the triangle or not), and Wand and Harnoncourt also use the Haas and neither has the cymbal crash.

I assume Karajan just thought it sounded better with that added - he makes a few similar tweaks in other works, such as raising the string entry before the main theme of the 4th (EMI/BP) by an octave*.

*I am too musically inept to know how to describe this myself, but I think it was Lilas who said that is the term to describe it when I initially asked.

I think I'll give the two Haitinks I have a back-to-back spin and see what comes of it... Ditto for the Jochums, as I've practically never sat down to listen to the later version carefully; strangely, Karajan's recordings seem to give me all I seek, in Bruckner's 7th.

(And I say "strangely" because I'm usually loathe to listen to only one or two recordings of a given work on a constant basis.)

Quote from: Lethe on July 14, 2008, 06:39:07 AM
I assume Karajan just thought it sounded better with that added - he makes a few similar tweaks in other works, such as raising the string entry before the main theme of the 4th (EMI/BP) by an octave*.

*I am too musically inept to know how to describe this myself, but I think it was Lilas who said that is the term to describe it when I initially asked.

If I'm thinking about the same place you're thinking about...the first violins (divided) are playing E-flat (octave apart) and Karajan has them slide (portamento) up a fifth to B-flat (still divided and an octave apart)...I look forward to that part every time I listen to that recording!!!

It is a slide up, but I can't tell by what interval, so thank you ! But I have to say I don't care much for that bit of touching up. It makes me wince every time :P.

As for the cymbal crash, all Nowak men make it, whereas most Haas practitioners usually stick by the score (Haas') and leave it out. Karajan also makes a small emendation to the harp part in the 8th symphony, following the big climax of the Adagio. When it was issued by DG, Gramophone described the change in some detail - although it's probably unnoticeable to any but score followers. It's not unusual to hear small differences from one edition to another. The coda to IV in the 'Romantic' also has differences in the brass parts - one of them brings the main theme of I forward IIRC. These changes are not necessarily very significant, because the conductor can always balance them differently. I've heard Nowak 7ths where the cymbal and timpani are so ineffectual as to be absent altogether - like a host furtively sweeping dirt under the carpet as company enters.

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on July 14, 2008, 04:46:08 PM
It is a slide up, but I can't tell by what interval, so thank you ! But I have to say I don't care much for that bit of touching up. It makes me wince every time :P.

... The coda to IV in the 'Romantic' also has differences in the brass parts - one of them brings the main theme of I forward IIRC. These changes are not necessarily very significant, because the conductor can always balance them differently.

The "Karajan slide" is interesting, and I think he gets away with it, but perhaps it doesn't do for every day! That portamento seems quite an old-school touch for a conductor I usually categorise as fairly objective - certainly in his Bruckner.

I think the Nowak edition of the 4th has the opening horn call return in the finale. It's how I first heard this symphony, and the Haas ending has always seemed a bit plain beside it. It creates a nice sense of completing the musical circle.

Quote from: Lethe on July 14, 2008, 06:39:07 AM
I assume Karajan just thought it sounded better with that added - he makes a few similar tweaks in other works, such as raising the string entry before the main theme of the 4th (EMI/BP) by an octave*.

That is from an earlier edition of the 4th symphony (don't remember exactly which one it is), not something Karajan came up with himself. I don't think I can think of a single example of him randomly adding a cymbal crash here or another "adornment" there just because he thought it sounded better somehow. Apart from the lower octave doubling of the basses in some places which however is not just a Karajan thing as such.

Quote from: M forever on July 14, 2008, 08:20:30 PM
That is from an earlier edition of the 4th symphony (don't remember exactly which one it is), not something Karajan came up with himself. I don't think I can think of a single example of him randomly adding a cymbal crash here or another "adornment" there just because he thought it sounded better somehow. Apart from the lower octave doubling of the basses in some places which however is not just a Karajan thing as such.

Thank you for the correction - that does make more sense :)

Here's  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45HVlZ2ICGA&feature=related)a pretty good video showing E. Jochum conducting the Concertgebouw just a couple of months before he died in the Adagio from the 7th, cymbal clash and extra percussions and all. Very moving performance.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 17, 2008, 12:00:24 PM
Here's  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45HVlZ2ICGA&feature=related)a pretty good video showing E. Jochum conducting the Concertgebouw just a couple of months before he died in the Adagio from the 7th, cymbal clash and extra percussions and all. Very moving performance.

Nice find. :)

Very moving indeed. The aged Jochum conducts seated in a red velour chair, and rises to his feet as the climax nears. He's obviously very emotionally engaged in the music.

I heard them play that in Berlin during the same tour. That was in 1986, I think. In the first half, they played Vorspiel und Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde. Unfortunately, the only time I saw Jochum in concert. But it was fantastic, I have very good memories of this concert to this day.

There is just something so human and sincere about Jochum's conducting of Bruckner. This music almost sounds like a human voice. It is amazing that he could barely stand and he still conducts this music like nobody else.

I will have to agree with others here and say that the Karajan/VPO/DG is my favorite version.

I have owned it for many years but only recently have I realized it's greatness, good example is the climax conclusion to first movement, just a massive crushing tidal wave of sound is generated, talk about cathedral of sound.

The only other conductor that matches this massive glorious vision for me is the Guilini/VPO/DG 9th. A tragic state of affairs that HVK's crowning performance of Bruckner would also be his last, the stuff that legends are made of. Also even though HVK's other Bruckner 7ths are some of the best ever recorded they are eclipsed by his final performance

I really like both the Tintner and Skrowaczewski 7ths. They are beautifully shaped performances, thoughtful of the structure and cheap! Recently, I purchased the 10 cd box from Documents, a Ormandy retrospective. The box has the first Bruckner recording made in the US 1935, a 7th with the Minneapolis Symphony. It's stunning, really exciting and has a "premiere" type feel to it.Worth seaching out. There used to be a very fine Pittsburgh Symphony recording under Steinberg on LP. Wish it would surface on CD. Magnificent work from the Pittsburgh players!

Speaking of American Bruckner 7ths, I think there's also a Toscanini recording of the work in existence. My eye caught it in a recent issue of Gramophone, and I've been intrigued by the prospect since...

Incidentally, Ormandy certainly recorded a very fine Bruckner 4th, although much later than the 7th you speak of.

So he is something of a known suspect for quality Bruckner, if you will. ;D

Quote from: Renfield on July 20, 2008, 01:14:36 PM
Speaking of American Bruckner 7ths, I think there's also a Toscanini recording of the work in existence. My eye caught it in a recent issue of Gramophone, and I've been intrigued by the prospect since...

Prospect of what? It has been discussed here before, or it was the prevoius board. It has few bits missing due to changes of the recording discs and Toscanini indulged in some reorchestration, most notably second theme of the IV movement was given to horns instead of strings.
It's still available for download:
http://rapidshare.com/files/32783616/AT_Bruckner_7_Lossless.rar.001.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/32797062/AT_Bruckner_7_Lossless.rar.002.html

Some versions are worth hearing. That means that most often a single hearing - or maybe two - will suffice. Others are worth knowing. Add one more spin. (Toscanini for example). But other than that they will probably not be heard again.

Then there are those that arose real interest. We mentally promise another run in the future. And then there are the ones we really like, often in competition with equally good but different versions. And finally there are the favourites. They are those that teach, challenge, move, please and thrill.

Quote from: Drasko on July 20, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
Prospect of what? It has been discussed here before, or it was the prevoius board. It has few bits missing due to changes of the recording discs and Toscanini indulged in some reorchestration, most notably second theme of the IV movement was given to horns instead of strings.
It's still available for download:
http://rapidshare.com/files/32783616/AT_Bruckner_7_Lossless.rar.001.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/32797062/AT_Bruckner_7_Lossless.rar.002.html

The prospect of listening for myself how Toscanini would handle Bruckner. :)

Which I now will. Thank you.

Quote from: FredT on July 20, 2008, 01:06:53 PM
There used to be a very fine Pittsburgh Symphony recording under Steinberg on LP. Wish it would surface on CD.

How hard is it to go to amazon.com and type in the words "bruckner" and "steinberg"?

Last night I listened to Bruckner 7 from this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hUx4D44WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

The Mravinsky is excellent, I think, with decent though not stellar sound (better than I expected honestly).  I'm still searching for a favorite 7th.  I like Bohm, Skrowaczewski, Walter, Kegel, Furtwangler... I may pick up Giulini some time this week, and give that a try...

I own many versions of this symphony.
My favorite is Barenboim's recording with the BPO.
Very poweful, and the orchestra plays gorgeously.
The end of the first movement is the most poweful and hair-rising I have heard on CD.

Bumping this six year old thread...

Now that we have a bunch of different users, I say we discuss the great/favorite recordings of the 7th again. I'm finally moving away from the 6th for a short while and turning my focus here.
Going through my inventory of the 7th and here's what I have...

Barenboim/Berlin
Solti/CSO
Tintner/RSNO
Sinopoli/Dresden
Wand/Cologne
Karajan/Vienna
Harnoncourt/RCO
Chailly/RSOBerlin
Herreweghe/Elysees
Skrow/LPO

The finale is always the step-child of the piece for me. Not particular my favorite movement, but with the right interpretation (as usually the case is) it can be magnificent and even match up with the majesty of the two opening movements. But how should the finale be treated? How fast should it taken? And how much should those brass climaxes slow down? Time to upload a score.  ;)

I'm just now starting to re-listen to these recordings and will also search Spotify for others, and will be posting my thoughts and opinions as I go. But would love if others would post their choices for the 7th, and possibly even discuss why they chose them.

Ray told me to get Giulini/Vienna in the Seventh, and he was right!

(Of course, I have few comparisons to make.)

Well, and Jens told me to get Haitink/CSO, and he was right, too!

I recall liking Nagano a fair bit, in addition to Chailly & Wand (the ones I own), and Giulini of course. Bernard Michael O'Hanlon gave Nagano 3/5, which is probably a sign that it is really 5/5 or 1/5, whichever is more opposite to his view..

Giulini/Vienna was my first recording and I still like it although it is on the slow and lyrical side. It is among my favorite Bruckner pieces, but I do not listen so frequently anymore to Bruckner so I have not done any comparisons recently. I found the more flowing and maybe slightly "cool" readings of Rosbaud (late 50s) and Gielen (late 80s) also very interesting. (I also have Klemperer, Skrowaczewski, Van Beinum, Matacic and maybe another one.)

The Karajan/Vienna (his last recording) is legendary, but I have never heard it.

The ones I have:
Klemperer/PO
Walter/Columbia SO
Van Beinum/CO Amsterdam
Haitink/CO Amsterdam (2 recordings)
Haitink/VPO
Abbado/VPO
Chailly/RSO Berlin
Karajan/BPO
Karajan/VPO
Szell/VPO
Harnoncourt/VPO
Wand/BPO

I don't have a particular favourite, they all have their merits.

I imprinted on the Rosbaud--the first recording of anything by Bruckner I ever purchased--in its LP incarnation, some 40  :o years ago:

[asin]B00AXR80YS[/asin]

Having heard a good four or five dozen recordings as well as live performances since then, I still find that the Rosbaud holds up extremely well.  Apparently this incarnation has the best sound among various cd reissues, though it comes in tandem with lesser interpretations (by other conductors) of several other Bruckner symphonies:

[asin]B001E1DHFO[/asin]

The way the solo flute trails the strings in the second movement's central melody is absolutely heartbreaking.

On the other hand... I'm probably the only person who also loves Klemperer's Philharmonia recording, included in this box:

[asin]B008YKRRH2[/asin]

Klemperer's tempi in are as glacial as Rosbaud's are swift, but (in Klemps' own words) you will get used to it.

And of course I would not want to be without Jochum (Berlin & Dresden), Wand (Cologne & Berlin), Walter, Sanderling, and Schuricht (Hague & Stuttgart), to name but a few among many.

Hmm... Time to give Celibidache a listen. ;)

The Klemperer is actually not that glacial (unless one takes Rosbaud as reference), except for the finale his is faster than Giulini, Matacic and Skro...

Czech Philharmonic / Lovro von Matacic for Matacic's unerring sense for pacing and the sound of the orchestra, if I had to chose only one, also Bohm's first, wartime, VPO recording for the most touching adagio.

Other than these I generally tend to like swifter ones, like Schuricht with BPO or HaagRO, Boulez/VPO, and maybe Rosbaud/Baden-Baden or Kabasta/MunichPO.

Looking forward to hearing Fischer.

This one is fantastic ...

Eichhorn

[asin]B00006ALCS[/asin]

http://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-No-7-Anton/dp/B00006ALCS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416862458&sr=8-1&keywords=eichhorn+bruckner

My Sevenths, favorites in bold.

CHAILLY/RSO BERLIN
KLEMPERER/PHILH
SKROWACZEWSKI/SAARBRÜCKEN RSO
JOCHUM/SOBR
JOCHUM/STAATSKAPELLE DRESDEN
KARAJAN/BERLIN PHIL (EMI)
KARAJAN/BERLIN PHIL (DG)
WELSER-MÖST/LPO
CELIBIDACHE/MUNICH PHIL
CELIBIDACHE/STUTTGART RSO
BARENBOIM/BERLIN PHIL
DOHNÁNYI/CLEVELAND
FURTWÄNGLER/BERLIN PHIL
TINTNER/ROYAL SCOTTISH NAT O
NORRINGTON/RSO STUTTGART
SANDERLING, KURT/RSO STUTTGART
MAAZEL/SOBR
WAND/BERLIN PHIL
WAND/KÖLNER RSO
SINOPOLI/STAATSKAPELLE DRESDEN
KREIZBERG/WIENER SYMPHONIKER


Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 24, 2014, 12:28:06 PM
My Sevenths, favorites in bold.

CHAILLY/RSO BERLIN
KLEMPERER/PHILH
SKROWACZEWSKI/SAARBRÜCKEN RSO
JOCHUM/SOBR
JOCHUM/STAATSKAPELLE DRESDEN
KARAJAN/BERLIN PHIL (EMI)
KARAJAN/BERLIN PHIL (DG)
WELSER-MÖST/LPO
CELIBIDACHE/MUNICH PHIL
CELIBIDACHE/STUTTGART RSO
BARENBOIM/BERLIN PHIL
DOHNÁNYI/CLEVELAND
FURTWÄNGLER/BERLIN PHIL
TINTNER/ROYAL SCOTTISH NAT O
NORRINGTON/RSO STUTTGART
SANDERLING, KURT/RSO STUTTGART
MAAZEL/SOBR
WAND/BERLIN PHIL
WAND/KÖLNER RSO
SINOPOLI/STAATSKAPELLE DRESDEN
KREIZBERG/WIENER SYMPHONIKER


Sarge

The Dohnanyi/Cleveland 7th is the only from their series I have yet to hear. And I agree with bolding Sinopoli, good one. But Karajan's EMI over his DG? Interesting.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 24, 2014, 12:36:50 PM
The Dohnanyi/Cleveland 7th is the only from their series I have yet to hear. And I agree with bolding Sinopoli, good one. But Karajan's EMI over his DG? Interesting.

I prefer all Karajan's EMI Bruckner (4, 7, 8 ) to his later DG recordings. Haven't heard his Vienna Seventh, though, which many think his best.

Sarge

Counting quickly, I have 41 versions, including a transcription for small forces. I am hard put to declare it one of my favourites, though. The seventh is the symphony I have most trouble with. It takes the right frame of mind to enjoy it fully. I don't  listen to it very often, certainly not in preference to 5, 8 or 9. Even though it is a beautiful work, it is also slightly flawed (finale) and unvaried in pacing (first two movements). Big contrasts are the norm in a Bruckner symphony, and this one keeps a low profile in that regard - until the Finale.

Among those that always give me a kick:

Blomstedt Dresden Staatskapelle, Giulini WP, Böhm WP, Schuricht 'Den Haag, Rögner Berlin RSO, Karajan WP.

IIRC I am also fond of Karajan BP (EMI), Haitink COA II, Knappertsbusch WP and Hindemith NYPO, although I haven't heard them in quite a while. I currently have 4 among the 41 that are waiting in the 'first listen' pile.

I don't know the Rosbaud. There's a set of 2, 5, 7 and 8 here:  http://www.abruckner.com/store/CDsandDVDs/symphonies2578hans/ . I wonder if it's the same as that mentioned above. The Amazon reviews seem to point to a stereo release. The Andromeda set is in mono.  John Berky's discography has only one Rosbaud 7th - in myriad incarnations.

Quote from: Drasko on November 24, 2014, 11:39:56 AM
also Bohm's first, wartime, VPO recording for the most touching adagio.

+1

Quote from: André on November 24, 2014, 01:09:23 PMI don't know the Rosbaud. There's a set of 2, 5, 7 and 8 here:  http://www.abruckner.com/store/CDsandDVDs/symphonies2578hans/ . I wonder if it's the same as that mentioned above. The Amazon reviews seem to point to a stereo release. The Andromeda set is in mono.  John Berky's discography has only one Rosbaud 7th - in myriad incarnations.

John Berky has posted the Rosbaud 7th as a "download of the month" here--in true stereo:

http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/ (http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/)

Mr. Berky notes that that Rosbaud's Bruckner 7th was in fact recorded in stereo, but for some reason it was first released in mono.  To make matters more confusing, the Turnabout LP was in "reprocessed stereo," which led people (i.e., me) to assume that the original recording was mono.

"Santa Fe Listener" (Huntley Dent) compares and contrasts Karajan's three recordings of the Bruckner 7th in a review on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R393MYDVXQ6OVS/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0009NDKV4&nodeID=5174&store=music (http://www.amazon.com/review/R393MYDVXQ6OVS/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0009NDKV4&nodeID=5174&store=music)

Not surprisingly, his review engenders a fair amount of discussion (in the post-review comments section), including mention of an editing error in the single-disk EMI release--an error apparently rectified in EMI's recent Karajan "Official Remastered Edition" containing that recording:

[asin]B00JX4IDL2[/asin]

Quote from: jfdrex on November 24, 2014, 03:18:48 PM
John Berky has posted the Rosbaud 7th as a "download of the month" here--in true stereo:

http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/ (http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/november14/)

Mr. Berky notes that that Rosbaud's Bruckner 7th was in fact recorded in stereo, but for some reason it was first released in mono.  To make matters more confusing, the Turnabout LP was in "reprocessed stereo," which led people (i.e., me) to assume that the original recording was mono.

Thanks ! So I gather there could be stereo incarnations out there, although most issues are probably in mono. I shall calll Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock Holmes to investigate on this...!

Quote from: André on November 25, 2014, 03:31:18 PM
Thanks ! So I gather there could be stereo incarnations out there, although most issues are probably in mono. I shall calll Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock Holmes to investigate on this...!

Sherlock is already on the case. ;)

http://youtu.be/ooUxWGL5svY

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 30, 2021, 06:13:09 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51miW4oSgCL._SY500_.jpg)

Now taking suggestions for great Bruckner 7ths...  ;D

My benchmark for Bruckner's 7th, at least for comparisons sake, has long been Carlo Maria Giulini, either on DG with Vienna or Testament with Berlin, both rather different readings of the same work from Giulini.

After that, Karajan, Harnoncourt, and Tennstedt are most interesting to me.

VS

Quote from: VonStupp on October 30, 2021, 07:13:51 AM

After that, Karajan, Harnoncourt, and Tennstedt are most interesting to me.

VS

I agree with the Harnoncourt's 7th, I think it's a wonderfully balanced performance.

Two others I really enjoy now that don't seem to be mentioned much are Von Matacic/Czech Phil, and Venzago/Basel SO. Venzago is probably looked at as a more unconventional Bruckner conductor, but I really like his interpretative choices with the 7th, especially in the finale.

I'll put in my oar for this one
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51DirTwXuTL.%3Cbr%20/%3E.jpg)

Böhm and Giulini WP for the big, comfortably late romantic view in gorgeous playing. For something entirely different, Schuricht with the Hague Philharmonic (sometimes called the Hague Residentie-orkest) give an abrupt, turbulent, uncouth, brassy account I find thrilling.

Quote from: André on October 30, 2021, 09:14:21 AM
Böhm and Giulini WP for the big, comfortably late romantic view in gorgeous playing. For something entirely different, Schuricht with the Hague Philharmonic (sometimes called the Hague Residentie-orkest) give an abrupt, turbulent, uncouth, brassy account I find thrilling.

Hello Andre' !

Yes, Carl Schuricht was described by one critic in '50's or '60's as delivering straight-forward, no-frills Bruckner!

https://www.youtube.com/v/d1o0F06vqnI

That's the one. Thanks, Leo !  ;)

Quote from: JBS on October 30, 2021, 08:55:27 AM
I'll put in my oar for this one
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51DirTwXuTL.%3Cbr%20/%3E.jpg)

I do really enjoy this one.

Quote from: VonStupp on October 30, 2021, 07:13:51 AM
My benchmark for Bruckner's 7th, at least for comparisons sake, has long been Carlo Maria Giulini, either on DG with Vienna or Testament with Berlin, both rather different readings of the same work from Giulini.

After that, Karajan, Harnoncourt, and Tennstedt are most interesting to me.

VS

Ayy, I was wondering if my post was the catalyst for seeing this thread bumped to the first page  ;D

Thanks for the suggestions! Giulini looks promising... Also quite curious about Tennstedt. Which recording are you referring to?

Any thoughts on Haitink in Chicago on the CSO Resound label?

Giulini/DG was my first on CD and I like it but it is very slow and lyrical (his Vienna 8 and 9 are also slow but IMO considerably more powerful). I think it is Bruckner's most beautiful piece and harder to "ruin" than some others that more easily become dragging or brutal brass orgies. I have about 10 recordings and I don't think I dislike any of them. Rosbaud or (in better sound) Gielen are good options for rather lean, fastish versions.

Gielen is indeed excellent.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 31, 2021, 05:32:45 AM
Ayy, I was wondering if my post was the catalyst for seeing this thread bumped to the first page  ;D

Thanks for the suggestions! Giulini looks promising... Also quite curious about Tennstedt. Which recording are you referring to?

Any thoughts on Haitink in Chicago on the CSO Resound label?

Yes, I thought something like Bruckner's 7th would have a lot of suggestions, so I moved it to the 7th thread.

If you want a different perspective from Barenboim, which you liked, Giulini might be just more of the same approach (big, old-school Romanticisms), so I might go with others' suggestions for differing perspectives on the Bruckner 7th.

I really like Klaus Tennstedt's traversals of both Mahler and Bruckner symphonies on LPO, although I might be alone in my enthusiasm. They are mostly live performances, and you never know what you are going to get from Tennstedt in live situations. That is what I like though, he is so spontaneous, but that also means his approaches were not always uniform or consistent, not to mention many were recorded towards the end of his life as well, so orchestral output could be variable too.

VS

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 31, 2021, 05:32:45 AM
Any thoughts on Haitink in Chicago on the CSO Resound label?

I've got it and l like it. In fact, just listened to it last week, as part of my Haitink-in-memoriam retrospective. Similar to his very good late 70s Amsterdam version, with the main differences being in the character of the respective orchestras (more plush strings in the Conc'bouw version, more powerful brass in the CSO).

Overall, I think my favorite version is Klemperer/PhilO. He balances the movements just right in terms of tempo, so everything flows nicely and the last 2 mvts. don't sound like afterthoughts. And the playing is great.

Klemperer is one of the few who gets tempo relations in the first movemen right. I also recommend it but I seem to recall that I was less fond of Klemp's mvmt. 3+4.

I was listening to a lot of the Klemperer Bruckner recordings when I first discovered Bruckner's music a couple of years ago, but haven't listened much since. Will have to check out his 7th. I also hear his 6th is quite excellent.

A propos of VonStupp's comment to me, what are some recordings that emphasize less of the "big, old-school Romanticism" approach in this symphony? It would be nice to hear something contrasting to the Barenboim/Berlin and Karajan/Vienna that I already have.

Any thoughts on the Runnicles/BBC Scottish on Hyperion?

Gielen, Rosbaud for a rather "modern" approach, and Klemperer is of course his own man but in a way he also belongs rather there than to "big old-school".
I think Giulini is too lyrical for typical "big romantic", at least in the 7th.

Quote from: Jo498 on October 31, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
Gielen, Rosbaud for a rather "modern" approach, and Klemperer is of course his own man but in a way he also belongs rather there than to "big old-school".
I think Giulini is too lyrical for typical "big romantic", at least in the 7th.

Lyrical sounds excellent for this symphony, sometimes nicknamed the "Lyric". I will have to look into Gielen and Rosbaud, two names I definitely don't associate with Bruckner.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 31, 2021, 12:50:44 PM
A propos of VonStupp's comment to me, what are some recordings that emphasize less of the "big, old-school Romanticism" approach in this symphony? It would be nice to hear something contrasting to the Barenboim/Berlin and Karajan/Vienna that I already have.

Skrowaczewski and the already mentioned Rosbaud.

Skrowaczewski is also excellent but not nearly as lean and fleet as Rosbaud or Gielen; his Saarbrücken (Arte Nova/Oehms) Bruckner set might be the best deal for a cplt. set. I have not heard Rosbaud's other Bruckner that was long in South West German Radio's vaults. Gielen's Bruckner is a mixed bag; of the one's I have heard (3-8) I think the 5th and 7th are the best by some margin and certainly worth seeking out.

Well, if you're looking for fleet, Ormandy/Philadelphia (RCA) and Ivan Fischer/Budapest Festival take about 56 minutes.  Haitink's first recording is around 60 minutes.  Heinz Rögner is a little over 59 minutes and there was a William Steinberg/Pittsburgh recording that was under 60 minutes.

Quote from: Jo498 on November 01, 2021, 12:50:24 AM
Skrowaczewski is also excellent but not nearly as lean and fleet as Rosbaud or Gielen; his Saarbrücken (Arte Nova/Oehms) Bruckner set might be the best deal for a cplt. set. I have not heard Rosbaud's other Bruckner that was long in South West German Radio's vaults. Gielen's Bruckner is a mixed bag; of the one's I have heard (3-8) I think the 5th and 7th are the best by some margin and certainly worth seeking out.

+1. They were also the first to be recorded, if I'm not mistaken. Fresh, urgent yet unhurried performances of great cumulative power.

Apart from Haitink's, my own rec for best cycle - esp. considering the price - is the Brilliant with Rögner in charge of nos 3-9 (other conductors for the early symphonies). The 7th is excellent. Bold yet glowing performances.

I grew up with this recording:
(//)

Quote from: André on November 01, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
+1. They were also the first to be recorded, if I'm not mistaken. Fresh, urgent yet unhurried performances of great cumulative power.

I  cannot check for the 9th, but I also think 7th (1986) and 5th (1989) were the first. However, Gielen's rather slow recording of the 8th is also from 1990

Quote
Apart from Haitink's, my own rec for best cycle - esp. considering the price - is the Brilliant with Rögner in charge of nos 3-9 (other conductors for the early symphonies). The 7th is excellent. Bold yet glowing performances.

I have not heard any Bruckner with Rögner (separate discs available on Berlin classics, I think) but he has a following among some German listeners.