Pogorelich's recording of this great work is surely the finest ever made. Here's an example of his immense skill in Scarbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pFsMqVr3B8
All three movements here-
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pogorelich+gaspard
My favorite also, but I would not want to be without Argerich or Crossley.
Quote from: Sean on May 11, 2007, 04:45:51 PM
Pogorelich's recording of this great work is surely the finest ever made. Here's an example of his immense skill in Scarbo
Surely....you jest....
Y'know, posting an endless barrage of
"Surely XYZ's recording is the best EVER" might be a great way to get one's post count up...
Beyond that....
Quote from: donwyn on May 11, 2007, 05:07:46 PM
Surely....you jest....
Hasn't the Pogorelich account often been cited as one of the best on record for many years now? Just asking, as I don't recall having it in my library.
Quote from: Don on May 11, 2007, 05:18:39 PM
Hasn't the Pogorelich account often been cited as one of the best on record for many years now? Just asking, as I don't recall having it in my library.
Penguin loves it!
However, I own it and have serious reservations. Not least Pogo's infatuation with his own ten fingers at the expense of the music.
I'll grant you Pogo has some of the 'prettiest' playing on disc (I have several of his discs) but I can't seem to forgive his habit of losing the "meaning" of a piece behind his ten fingered exhibitionism.
In Gaspard I'm much more taken by the likes of Bavouzet or Argerich.
Anyway, Don, if there's something like a consensus (beyond Penguin) concerning this recording I'm not privy to it.
Go for the Aimard recording, if only for the rest of the disc.
Quote from: donwyn on May 11, 2007, 05:42:39 PM
Penguin loves it!
However, I own it and have serious reservations. Not least Pogo's infatuation with his own ten fingers at the expense of the music.
I'll grant you Pogo has some of the 'prettiest' playing on disc (I have several of his discs) but I can't seem to forgive his habit of losing the "meaning" of a piece behind his ten fingered exhibitionism.
In Gaspard I'm much more taken by the likes of Bavouzet or Argerich.
Anyway, Don, if there's something like a consensus (beyond Penguin) concerning this recording I'm not privy to it.
So, you want to play the dickhead game, which means any statement or question is okay, as long as it agrees with your likes. "Penguin" and "prettiest" does not begin to cover up your jerkiness.
You are not privy to lots of things. Such as a thinking cap.
Quote from: BorisG on May 11, 2007, 06:30:53 PM
So, you want to play the dickhead game, which means any statement or question is okay, as long as it agrees with your likes. "Penguin" and "prettiest" does not begin to cover up your jerkiness.
You are not privy to lots of things. Such as a thinking cap.
:D
Who's being a jerk, here??
Not I!!!! :D
I merely answered Don's query with an honest appraisal of Pogorelich's Gaspard.
Seem's YOU are the one who can't stand disagreeing!!!!
As evidence of my deference to others' opinions of this recording I opened my reply with Penguin's favorable recommendation!!!!!!!!!
That's how much I respect other posters!!! You, on the other hand, have no respect at all.
So your accusations regarding my character are groundless.
BTW, I'm still waiting for an answer to this little ditty (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,576.msg14948.html#msg14948)on the Shostakovich symphony thread where you make some equally groundless accusations...
Pogo's Gaspard is stunning to be sure, and the liberties he takes pay off handsomely, not least in Le Gibet. It certainly is not the finest version ever made though. Such notions are silly at their core, and when one considers pianists like Casadesus or Simon or Michelangeli in this work, the notion that Pogo is somehow "better" than them surely must cause one to giggle.
Pogo generally is a self-indulgent pianist, there's no doubt, but I generally like what he does. His Pictures at an Exhibition is as good as his Gaspard, and his Chopin Scherzi even better. But the Scherzi aside, I always turn to Pogo for "alternative" takes.
Quote from: Todd on May 11, 2007, 07:35:47 PM
It certainly is not the finest version ever made though. Such notions are silly at their core, and when one considers pianists like Casadesus or Simon or Michelangeli in this work, the notion that Pogo is somehow "better" than them surely must cause one to giggle.
Yes, this is more along the lines of what I was driving at with my reply to the OP though perhaps I was a bit too vague...
Just picked up another 10 CD boxset of Michelangeli today--this one with Gaspard--pretty much the main reason I bought it. (about 60% of this set is also on Vol. 1). If it is anywhere nearly as good as his Debussy, then Pogorelich will have some very tough competition. Have you heard Michelangeli's version, Sean??
Pogorelich is a very accomplished pianist, and an unmannered one: he seems to hold onto the notes no matter how fast they are to the last moment before the next one, quite magesterial. And the scene painting and deep blood red colours in the Gaspard recording coupled with Prok 6 is perhaps like no other playing I've ever heard: definitely in the Penguin Rosette category.
There are a few of his Scarlatti sonata videos on YT but I haven't been persuaded by them.
XB- No I haven't heard the Michelangeli, but I have heard other stuff by him and it's usually very impressive how his technique goes beyond the medium, almost making the piano disappear.
I'll throw in another - Naida Cole
(http://www.universal-music.co.jp/classics/special/naida_cole/image/naida_cole001.jpg)
(http://www.beautyinmusic.com/assets/artists_large_pics/nadia_cole_pn.jpg)
She plays as well as she looks ;)
:P :-*
So when is she going to appear on the cover of Maxim? :o :D :-* :P >:D
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 12, 2007, 02:13:19 AM
So when is she going to appear on the cover of Maxim? :o :D :-* :P >:D
;D
You could always e-mail:
http://www.naidacole.com/index.php
Sadly, she's actually 'retired' and gone to medical school. It's a shame because her debut recital disc is great and promised much, but she became disillusioned with the industry apparently, our loss.... :'(
Quote from: Sean on May 11, 2007, 11:51:43 PMPogorelich is a very accomplished pianist, and an unmannered one
Can you please more fully define "unmannered"? I only ask because you are literally the only person I've encountered who makes the claim you do. In fact, most people who like Pogo seem to like his very heavily mannered playing. Most people who dislike him dislike him for those same reasons.
Todd
Quote from: Todd on May 12, 2007, 06:52:25 AM
Can you please more fully define "unmannered"? I only ask because you are literally the only person I've encountered who makes the claim you do. In fact, most people who like Pogo seem to like his very heavily mannered playing. Most people who dislike him dislike him for those same reasons.
He's unmannered in the same way Karajan for instance is: in both cases, at their best, the indulgence in their own interpretation and skills, beautification, polish and so on is transfigured and effectively disappears because everything at the same time matches up to the music's requirements. His
Gaspard recording is a perfect example-
Scarbo has that fullness of tone that might suggest an interest in technique for the sake of it but all self-consciousness is avoided because what he achieves is exactly in the spirit of the music. It's really amazing tone-painting and some of the most memorable pianism I've ever heard, heat-soaked, heady impressionism, quite in the zone, and virtuosity absolutely at the service of the music- in fact I didn't know it was as difficult to play as that. His Prokofiev 6th also finds much more than anyone else.
Quote from: Sean on May 12, 2007, 07:16:19 AMHe's unmannered in the same way Karajan for instance is
Got it. You don't know what the word means.
Just last night (this morning at 4am) I listened to the Michelangeli's astounding, jaw-dropping rendition of Gaspard on my new 10 CD set (Aura label). And, I have to say, I'm not sure I like it; I'm not sure I dislike it either, but it will take much more listening to better comprehend his approach.
First, either the recording, the piano, or both are very bright and metallic in the upper registers. As the recordings in this set span many years and a variety of venues, they are of highly variable quality and it is impossible for me to determine to what degree the sonics of this highly unusual sounding recording correspond to Michelangeli's wishes. As usual, Michelangeli's playing is very highly detailed and transparent, and he exposes melodic motifs and harmonies not heard in any other pianist's readings. However, I don't know whether this super-detailed approach serves this music all that well. Gieseking's approach is very much the opposite; he paints his Gaspard with very broad brush strokes, subordinating detail to the overall feeling and flow of the pieces. His Ondine is flowing and mysterious, while Michelangeli's sounds dissected and analytical by comparison. Much the same is true for Gibet and Scarbo. Anyway, these are my first impressions.
The Debussy preludes from 1977 are complete in this set (three are missing in Vol. 1) and these are so good I nearly cried.
I love his 'Scarbo', especially.
Nearly perfect!
There are some good "Gaspard" recordings, such as
Michelangeli(BBC), Lortie(Chados), Perlemuter(Nimbus), Berezovsky(Teldec), ...
But my favorite is Alexandre Tharaud(Harmonia Mundi).
His Ravel playing is really marvelous, pretty elaborate, dramatic, and beatiful.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EKG8HHJ1L._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 12, 2007, 09:15:06 PMThe Debussy preludes from 1977 are complete in this set (three are missing in Vol. 1) and these are so good I nearly cried.
You need to get the
other 10-disc set for the complete set of both books. It's worth the outlay. (I got both just because its Michelangeli.) I agree that the sonics in the set are not the best, and are highly variable, and may not reflect his idea of what he should sound like, but his playing takes on a greater energy live that erases any doubt due to sound. His Schumann and Chopin live are better than in the studio, for instance. Keep listening!
Quote from: Todd on May 13, 2007, 05:48:51 AM
You need to get the other 10-disc set for the complete set of both books. It's worth the outlay. (I got both just because its Michelangeli.)
I have it. Listening to Book II will commence tonight. We'll see whether Michelangeli's playing can interest me in this music. I've always loved Book I more than just about anything written for piano, but Book II has always left me cold.
Todd, do you play the piano yourself?
Unless the only cd that deserve to be considered here are those from Deutsche Gramophon, I am very surprised than nobody seems to have heard of Samson Francois's Gaspard de la Nuit. Both of his recordings (1947 at the age of 23 and twenty years later 1967) are the most impressive I ever heard.
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 12, 2007, 12:15:12 AM
I'll throw in another - Naida Cole
(http://www.universal-music.co.jp/classics/special/naida_cole/image/naida_cole001.jpg)
(http://www.beautyinmusic.com/assets/artists_large_pics/nadia_cole_pn.jpg)
She plays as well as she looks ;)
:P :-*
Yes, but Decca doesn't release new recordings with her! >:(
Quote from: ragman1970 on May 15, 2007, 11:11:22 AM
Yes, but Decca doesn't release new recordings with her! >:(
No, she's left the music business and now training as a doctor! :'(
Quote from: olivetta on May 14, 2007, 11:00:59 PM
Unless the only cd that deserve to be considered here are those from Deutsche Gramophon, I am very surprised than nobody seems to have heard of Samson Francois's Gaspard de la Nuit. Both of his recordings (1947 at the age of 23 and twenty years later 1967) are the most impressive I ever heard.
This is the one, the '47 in particular. He created the sort of character you would never want to meet alone on a dark quiet street.
Otherwise Michelangeli, the London recital on BBC Legends I think.
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 12, 2007, 09:15:06 PM
Just last night (this morning at 4am) I listened to the Michelangeli's astounding, jaw-dropping rendition of Gaspard on my new 10 CD set (Aura label). And, I have to say, I'm not sure I like it; I'm not sure I dislike it either, but it will take much more listening to better comprehend his approach.
First, either the recording, the piano, or both are very bright and metallic in the upper registers. As the recordings in this set span many years and a variety of venues, they are of highly variable quality and it is impossible for me to determine to what degree the sonics of this highly unusual sounding recording correspond to Michelangeli's wishes. As usual, Michelangeli's playing is very highly detailed and transparent, and he exposes melodic motifs and harmonies not heard in any other pianist's readings. However, I don't know whether this super-detailed approach serves this music all that well. Gieseking's approach is very much the opposite; he paints his Gaspard with very broad brush strokes, subordinating detail to the overall feeling and flow of the pieces. His Ondine is flowing and mysterious, while Michelangeli's sounds dissected and analytical by comparison. Much the same is true for Gibet and Scarbo. Anyway, these are my first impressions.
The Debussy preludes from 1977 are complete in this set (three are missing in Vol. 1) and these are so good I nearly cried.
XB, I don't have tha Aura recording, so I am not sure which one it is. Michelangeli never recorded Gaspard in the studio unfortunately. There are at least two live recital recordings that have shown up. The more common one is from London in the late 1950s. This one was officially issued on the BBC's own label and also in the Philips Great Pianists series. That recording is very fine, beautiful tone, if emotionally a bit cold. The far better one, in my opinion, is a later, I think, 1970s recital from Prague, that used to be available on a double CD from Music & Arts. I am not at home so I can't check the exact dates. But this later one is mesmerizing. Nobody else I have heard comes anywhere near the perfection of sonic control Michelangeli achieves here. It is beyond technique or pianism. It is just the pure music leaping off the page, so to speak. Astounding. I put it on once for apianist friend who had never heard it and he asked me to replay the opening bars several times because he was in disbelief about the level of control Michelangeli has over the ostinato patterns. Neither of the two recordings is bright or metallic. It was always a hallmark of Michelangeli's sound to produce a very non-percussive tone ideally suited to Ravel and Debussy.
Quote from: O Mensch on May 30, 2007, 02:52:04 PM
Michelangeli never recorded Gaspard in the studio unfortunately. There are at least two live recital recordings that have shown up.
- London 30 June 1959 - BBC Legends BBCL 40642, Music and Arts CD-955, Music and Arts CD-4955, Philips 456 901-2
- Prague 22 May 1960 - EMI Vltava Classics (Japan) TOCE-8271, Multisonic 310193-2, Music and Arts CD-817
- Lugano 4 June 1968 - Memories HR 4368/69, Nuova Era CD 2218
- Helsinki 22 May 1969 - Arkadia GI 904.1, Hunt CD 904
- Città del Vaticano 13 June 1987 - Amadeus AMS 042-043, Aura Music AUR 204-2, Memoria 999-001, Memoria 999-105
Quote from: Drasko on May 30, 2007, 03:00:21 PM
- London 30 June 1959 - BBC Legends BBCL 40642, Music and Arts CD-955, Music and Arts CD-4955, Philips 456 901-2
- Prague 22 May 1960 - EMI Vltava Classics (Japan) TOCE-8271, Multisonic 310193-2, Music and Arts CD-817
- Lugano 4 June 1968 - Memories HR 4368/69, Nuova Era CD 2218
- Helsinki 22 May 1969 - Arkadia GI 904.1, Hunt CD 904
- Città del Vaticano 13 June 1987 - Amadeus AMS 042-043, Aura Music AUR 204-2, Memoria 999-001, Memoria 999-105
Dude! Thanks for that. I wasn't even aware of the last three you list. Have you heard them? How do they compare?
Quote from: O Mensch on May 30, 2007, 03:09:08 PM
Dude! Thanks for that. I wasn't even aware of the last three you list. Have you heard them? How do they compare?
No dude, haven't heard all those and chances to find Lugano & Helsinki are pretty much nill (Memories disc
might come up at BRO at one time or another).
That last one (which I heard maybe once, some time ago) is available both on Aura (BRO) or in second Membrane/Documents box, so you can check out that for youself.
Quote from: O Mensch on May 30, 2007, 02:52:04 PM
The far better one, in my opinion, is a later, I think, 1970s recital from Prague, that used to be available on a double CD from Music & Arts.
I haven't heard this. Does anyone know if it's still available? I can't imagine it could be "far better" with only a year separating the two performances and the London recital already being "the best recital I've ever attended" (Ronald Smith). But maybe.
Quote from: sidoze on May 31, 2007, 03:07:25 AM
Does anyone know if it's still available?
http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD817hi.html (http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD817hi.html)
On the other hand do you know is Francois '47 available?
As far as I know, in '47 he only recorded Scarbo. It's in the Philips GPOC set dedicated to him, as well as in the big white box on EMI.
The one Gavrilov played in the Tchaikovsky comp is supposed to be stunning but I don't think it's released yet.
Is it da bomb?
I just got this. Not being intimate with these pieces, I "fear" these interpretations may become etched in m y mind. oh, well,...
I expect perfection in what I'm listening to, so I can't imagine hearing these pieces now with any less ummph that what Pogo is delivering. I'm probably not the best "notice-er" sometimes, but I do hear this guy hitting e-ver-y sin-gle note. There is certainly the feeling of "tickling" those ivories,... especially at the beginning of Scarbo, where Pogo does that "creaky" sound by playing the notes so fast.
The Prokofieff, too, is quite sparkling and twinkling. I'm no Prokof-nut, but I am now enjoying this and the PS No.7 with Pollini. I also tried the GD/Richter PS No.8, but I didn't find that piece as raucous as 6-7. Anyone?
At 50mins, though, it makes you want to hear more (though not Chopin for me right now, thanks!).
Quote from: snyprrr on September 13, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
I also tried the [Prokofiev] GD/Richter PS No.8, but I didn't find that piece as raucous as 6-7. Anyone?
What's the "GD" in GD/Richter stand for? Did you perhaps mean
DG, as in the record label?
As far as the 8th sonata, the point of this work isn't to be "raucous". It has its raucous
moments but overall it's a sort of sedentary listening experience. Listen to it for its meditative qualities and don't expect to be thrown out of your chair by it.
Admittedly the 8th can be a challenge to listen to with that sprawling first movement but give Prokofiev the benefit of the doubt. He rarely lets the listener down. Incidentally, Richter is MUCH more tightly wound in his live 1961 Moscow performance, pulling together all the disparate elements of that long first movement better than in his studio DG. But still, Richter is Richter in this music, so keep at it....
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on September 13, 2010, 08:56:10 PM
What's the "GD" in GD/Richter stand for? Did you perhaps mean DG, as in the record label?
As far as the 8th sonata, the point of this work isn't to be "raucous". It has its raucous moments but overall it's a sort of sedentary listening experience. Listen to it for its meditative qualities and don't expect to be thrown out of your chair by it.
Admittedly the 8th can be a challenge to listen to with that sprawling first movement but give Prokofiev the benefit of the doubt. He rarely lets the listener down. Incidentally, Richter is MUCH more tightly wound in his live 1961 Moscow performance, pulling together all the disparate elements of that long first movement better than in his studio DG. But still, Richter is Richter in this music, so keep at it....
I think I'm liking 6 the best out of those War Sonatas (will continue with Richter though). And the Pogo is so tickling!