GMG Classical Music Forum

Yes, there are only four to choose from. And yes, I know some of you probably hate them all.

Thanks for your response.  :)

This is easy - Bernstein by a furlong.

Choose them for what?

Quote from: O Mensch on May 15, 2007, 08:35:23 AM
Choose them for what?

To do your gardening.

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 15, 2007, 08:36:04 AM
To do your gardening.

If that's the case, Haitink is the man. :D

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 15, 2007, 08:36:04 AM
To do your gardening.

Haitink, then. He's the most down to earth.  ;D

Sarge

Quote from: Don on May 15, 2007, 08:47:05 AM
If that's the case, Haitink is the man. :D

Great minds think alike.

Sarge

Lennie

Bernstein here, but I deeply appreciate many recordings of Karajan as well (even if he is more uneven).

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2007, 08:47:42 AM
Haitink, then. He's the most down to earth.  ;D

Sarge

Haitink, since he has the most complete set of gardening tools.   ;D

--Bruce

Bernstein.  Whether I agree with his interpretations or not, as a listener I'm always treated to something different.

Since I own and enjoy the most by HvK, I have voted for him.

:D

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 15, 2007, 07:46:44 AM
Yes, there are only four to choose from. And yes, I know some of you probably hate them all.

Thanks for your response.  :)

Trying to decide on a boxed set?  :-\

Quote from: George on May 15, 2007, 02:26:40 PM
Since I own and enjoy the most by HvK, I have voted for him.

:D

Yup.

Quote from: George on May 15, 2007, 02:27:09 PM
Trying to decide on a boxed set?  :-\

Nope. These were the main conductors for the big four labels back in the day.

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 15, 2007, 04:34:52 PM
Nope. These were the main conductors for the big four labels back in the day.

I see. What about Szell?  :-\

Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 15, 2007, 04:34:52 PM
Nope. These were the main conductors for the big four labels back in the day.

Who would your four be today?

Quote from: George on May 15, 2007, 05:01:27 PM
I see. What about Szell?  :-\

and Marriner?

Quote from: George on May 15, 2007, 05:01:27 PM
I see. What about Szell?  :-\

Probably didn't have nearly the amount of time in the studio as the others. Solti, Bernstein, Haitink and Karajan made recordings over 4 or even 5 decades while most of Szell's CBS recordings were made in the 1960s or late 1950s. Just by that alone you don't expect Szell to have made nearly as many recordings as the others.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 15, 2007, 05:44:55 PM
Probably didn't have nearly the amount of time in the studio as the others. Solti, Bernstein, Haitink and Karajan made recordings over 4 or even 5 decades while most of Szell's CBS recordings were made in the 1960s or late 1950s. Just by that alone you don't expect Szell to have made nearly as many recordings as the others.

Yep.

Quote from: brianrein on May 15, 2007, 05:06:42 PM
Who would your four be today?

My current four? I don't know. I was just curious about what the forum thought of the four in this poll.

Quote from: Bogey on May 15, 2007, 05:07:15 PM
and Marriner?

If he didn't conduct Wagner operas and Mahler or Bruckner symphonies then it's a non-sequitur. Besides, he's the Neon in the GM line. The others are all Hummers as are Szell, Guilini and Carlos Kleiber. Can't pick a conductor. It depends on the composer.

To me, the choice of a conductor depends on the repertory.
Bernstein left remarkable versions of Haydn Symphonies (in special 82/87), of Mahler (the 5th, the 6th and the 8th with the VPO, the 7th with the NYP, the 9th with the BPO), of Sibelius (the first with the VPO, the 3rd and 7th with the NYP), Roussel (the 3rd with the NYP). But I don't like his versions of Beethoven, Brahms or even Schumann (with the exception of a beautiful 2nd Symphony with the NYP).

It is the same with Karajan. Extraordinary moments (Haydn's Creation, Beethoven 5th with the BPO 1977, and 8th with the BPO 1962), Verdi's Falstaff (with Gobbi), Wagner (Das Rheingold), Brahms First Symphony with the VPO, Mahler 6th with the BPO, Sibelius 4th with the BPO, many works of Strauss. And he left recordings that I don't like (Verdi's Aida and Otello, Wagner's Meistersinger, Mahler's 5th among others).

Regarding Haitink I would like to mention some great recordings: Mahler's 3rd, Brahms First, Vaughan Williams 6th, Brahms Double Concerto, Mozart's Don Giovanni, Liszt tone poems.

Solti ... well, there is Aida (with Price and Vickers), Un Ballo in Maschera (with the other Price, Margaret), Wagner's Ring (but his version of Die Walküre has not the same quality of the other three operas) and Tannhäuser, Mahler's 5th and 8th Symphonies and some Strauss (in special Elektra and Arabella, although I prefer Keilbert's version).

Quote from: George on May 15, 2007, 05:01:27 PM
I see. What about Szell?  :-\

In the late 40s, 50s and on through the 60s Szell and Cleveland were continually screwed by Columbia Records. Columbia concentrated its efforts in New York and Philadelphia. During the first nine years of the LP era, when the number of recordings was exploding exponentially, only 14 pieces were recorded with the Cleveland. Cleveland got the scraps after Columbia had stuffed New York and Philly. Another low blow was assigning Cleveland to the cheaper, subsidiary label, Epic, instead of the main Masterworks label, thereby giving consumers the false impression that Cleveland was a second rate band. The contract with Cleveland called for only two records a year. Things did get slightly better in the 60s but the orchestra was never happy with Columbia. Shortly before Szell's death they began recording for EMI (Angel).

Sarge

Solti, because of his name and the way it is pronounced   8)  (inside joke for a few people here)  and because of the Ring cycle, the Mahler recordings, and the Moses und Aron.

I'm surprised Bernstein is ahead of Karajan.

Karajan!

Quote from: Bruckner is God on May 16, 2007, 08:09:39 AM
Karajan!

Dude!  Great screen name!   

(Maybe it's even true!!!)    0:)

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 16, 2007, 04:36:00 AM
In the late 40s, 50s and on through the 60s Szell and Cleveland were continually screwed by Columbia Records. Columbia concentrated its efforts in New York and Philadelphia. During the first nine years of the LP era, when the number of recordings was exploding exponentially, only 14 pieces were recorded with the Cleveland. Cleveland got the scraps after Columbia had stuffed New York and Philly. Another low blow was assigning Cleveland to the cheaper, subsidiary label, Epic, instead of the main Masterworks label, thereby giving consumers the false impression that Cleveland was a second rate band. The contract with Cleveland called for only two records a year. Things did get slightly better in the 60s but the orchestra was never happy with Columbia. Shortly before Szell's death they began recording for EMI (Angel).

Sarge

I'm having some trouble believing some of what you way.  I've seen some lists, actually some releases of old mono vinyl Szell albums onto CD (no names here) and the Szell/Cleveland/Columbia or Epic titles from the 40's and 50's seem to be in the 100's at least, but that just a guess.  14 you say? 

Although no doubt you are right about New York and Philadelphia getting the lion's share, or at least that is the lasting perception.  But, being a record collector then, I would dispute that Epic was a budget label.  The price was the same as any for any Columbia album.   Aren't budget labels supposed to be cheaper?

I had no idea that Cleveland signed a contract with EMI back then.  Probably says a lot about EMI's support however.

I chose Karajan... though Solti, definetely is a close runner-up. Not so familiar with much of Haitink so i couldn't say

What for, execution?

if it's for mowing the yard, i want one who is alive..... (are any of them even alive anymore?)

I go with Lenny, with Karajan a close second.

  Karajan all the way....most of my preferred recordings are with him conducting.


  marvin

Actually, there are probably as many, if not more, Szell recordings as any of the other four. Unfortunately, most are still exist only on vinyl.  And Ormandy, Reiner, Toscannini? 

Im not sure if they guys knew how to run a train  ???

They're all amateurs compared to Fritz Reiner.
His recordings with the CSO have set standards which won't be topped for the conceivable future. Maybe never!.

Quote from: greg on May 17, 2007, 12:46:21 PM
if it's for mowing the yard, i want one who is alive..... (are any of them even alive anymore?)

Lucky you!  You get Haitink. ;D

And in the long run, I'd have to say he's my favorite of these four too, for one reason only: You can depend on him.  Bernstein, Karajan, and Solti all had their duds, but I've never heard one from Haitink.  Always true to the score and flawlessly played, and some of his recordings are the best out there.  Ormandy had that same sort of consistency till his last decade, and even in his last years could pull off some beautiful recordings, like his Lemminkäinen Suite on EMI.

But I tend to agree with Iago that Reiner (and Monteux) were untouchable for precision, power, and consistency.

Quote from: greg on May 17, 2007, 12:46:21 PM
if it's for mowing the yard, i want one who is alive..... (are any of them even alive anymore?)

Bernard Haitink was named, oh, while back, principal conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra - replacing Daniel Barenboim.

In any event, I voted for Haitink - though Karajan might be the conductor of whose work I have the most, followed closely by Boulez - because he's (as jochanaan noted) a safe bet. His Götterdämmerung had Tomlinson singing Hagen, which might be the best performance of the rôle in modern recordings. So, really I chose him for that Götterdämmerung.

Those men all have done some extraordinary work. But everyone know whom is top for me!