Have never heard either of these works, and feel that perhaps I should... So which recordings should I get?
Quote from: Guido on September 19, 2008, 06:17:30 PM
Have never heard either of these works, and feel that perhaps I should... So which recordings should I get?
Although not my favorite operas I own these two:
(http://www.kv-staatsopernchor.at/cdcover/cdwozzeck.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/july00/lulu.jpg)
Quote from: The Ardent Pelleastre on September 19, 2008, 06:21:11 PM
Although not my favorite operas I own these two:
(http://www.kv-staatsopernchor.at/cdcover/cdwozzeck.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/july00/lulu.jpg)
I presume that means you recommend them as good recordings?
Quote from: Guido on September 19, 2008, 06:22:21 PM
I presume that means you recommend them as good recordings?
Absolutely... Abbado and Boulez are really in their element here.
For Lulu Boulez gets my vote, trumping even both of Böhm's recordings (DG and Andante). Böhm on DG is too lackluster, primarily due to the singing. Böhm on Andante suffers from badly distorted balances. The voices are very very forward, almost in your face, with the orchestra practically relegated to another hemisphere. If voices alone are one's top priority then this performance certainly delivers. But realize it's only half of the music. With Berg, like Wagner and R. Strauss, the orchestra carries a great deal of the musical argument.
What Boulez has is flair and ardor. Yes, ardor. All wrapped in a modern exterior without ever slighting the romantic undertones. It's full and lush with a very forward-thinking perspective.
For Wozzeck it's a toss up. Both Böhm and Abbado on DG are good bets. Of the two I'd pick Böhm by a nose. Leopold Ludwig on EMI is good, too. But ultimately I'd opt for Dohnanyi on Decca. Ideal recorded balances and chock-full of what makes Berg's operas so enrapturing: projecting the beating heart of a romantic while forging new modernist paths.
Quote from: The Ardent Pelleastre on September 19, 2008, 06:21:11 PM
Although not my favorite operas I own these two:
(http://www.kv-staatsopernchor.at/cdcover/cdwozzeck.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/july00/lulu.jpg)
They are among
my favorite operas (
Lulu especially, and I'll finally get to see it live in Chicago in November), and those are wonderful recordings. I'd also second donwyn's reccomendation of the Dohnanyi
Wozzeck.
For Lulu Boulez is obvious choice, apart from being excellent performance I believe it's still the only three act version on CD?
In Wozzeck I prefer Abbado to Dohnanyi although both are good. Abbado is live recording and there is some stage noise and the singers move around while Dohnanyi is studio and soundstage is more clear. Donhanyi's Wozzeck is Waechter who comes across as somewhat stronger character than more reticent Grundheber, supporting cast I prefer Abbado's (don't like Silja as Marie). Dohnanyi handling of the orchestral part is superb, precise, smooth and lush, to me feels more looking over to Richard Strauss while Abbado plays up the 'modern' side being really terrifying (and terrific) at moments. The orchestral part is what makes me go for Abbado over Dohnanyi.
@donwyn - Leopold Ludwig Wozzeck on EMI. Could you be thinking Lulu? I can't recall Wozzeck from him. If so, how is that Lulu, always was curious about Rothenberger in title role.
Quote from: Drasko on September 20, 2008, 06:53:30 AM
For Lulu Boulez is obvious choice, apart from being excellent performance I believe it's still the only three act version on CD?
There have been several other three-act versions on CD. I've got Tate's live-from-Paris version (re-released earlier this year in a budget version), Paul Daniel's English-language version on Chandos, and the BMG release of the Vienna State Opera premiere of the three-act version with Maazel conducting. There's also an earlier Chandos recording, in German, conducted by Ulf Schirmer, but no one seems to have anything good to say about it. The Vienna/BMG seems to be OOP, but all of the others are available new from amazon.com.
Maazel does indeed look out of print, so how Tate compares with Boulez?
Another vote for Boulez's Lulu, and his Wozzeck (below) is very good, too. My sole complaint with the Wozzeck is the sound quality, which is a little too dry for my ears, but Walter Berry is excellent in the title role. I also like the one with Bo Skovhus (below) conducted by Ingo Metzmacher, in a very good live recording.
If you're inclined to watch either one on DVD, Laura Aikin is excellent in Lulu, with a huge caveat: Welser-Möst omits the final act, which I frankly miss. In the complete version, Christine Schäfer is superb, and the production is quite good: it won the 1997 Gramophone award for best video of the year.
I have the Wozzeck DVD starring Dale Duesing, who is not only an excellent singer but acts up a storm. Two more DVD versions came out last year, and I haven't seen either: a recent, controversial production by Calixto Bieito (conducted by Sebastian Weigle), and a 1970 version done as a film by the Hamburg Opera, with Bruno Maderna conducting that is supposed to be excellent given the time period.
--Bruce
Quote from: Drasko on September 20, 2008, 06:53:30 AM
@donwyn - Leopold Ludwig Wozzeck on EMI. Could you be thinking Lulu? I can't recall Wozzeck from him. If so, how is that Lulu, always was curious about Rothenberger in title role.
Oh, yes, I meant Lulu. Forgive me.
As far as Rothenberger, she is absolutely wonderful. More purely 'operatic' than the others I have but with such a beautiful voice it's hard not to be swept up in her conception. I'd call her the best Lulu of the lot: alluring, fey, and full of edginess. She perfectly walks the tightrope between confused waif and temptress.
Her diction is impressive and her range is effortless. She can throw her voice all over the musical spectrum and land right in the bullseye of any note, no matter how high, how strongly inflected, or how subtle. It's basically almost perfect as a realization.
The only fly in the ointment is Ludwig's conducting. It's too low wattage and can't (or won't) match Rothenberger in intensity. It's not bad by any stretch but if, say, Böhm or Abbado had been conducting this would definitely be a
Lulu for the ages. As it is it's still very fine and with so much to offer it probably shouldn't be missed by 'Luluites'.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VQ5Z42T9L._SS400_.jpg)
Sounds good, I'll pick it up if run across decently priced copy, thanks.
There's a 'Berg Box' from DG at a good price that contains the Abbado 'Wozzeck' and the Boulez 'Lulu.'
I cannot believe at this time remove that I have sat witness to both the Boulez/Chereau and the Tate 'Lulus.'
I actually recorded the Tate off Radio 3!
Isn't there a fine Dohnanyi conducted version of 'Wozzeck' worth anybodies money?
I recently bought the Tate because the cast is outstanding and I admire the conductor and it was sooo cheap but EMI do not provide a libretto otherwise I would recommend this over Boulez.
Not works I would want to hear all that often.
Quote from: Hector on September 24, 2008, 06:30:25 AM
There's a 'Berg Box' from DG at a good price that contains the Abbado 'Wozzeck' and the Boulez 'Lulu.'
Yes, and I still need to attend to this . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on September 24, 2008, 06:31:47 AM
Yes, and I still need to attend to this . . . .
8CDs at MDT for £27?
Hesitate ye not!
Quote from: Hector on September 24, 2008, 06:38:30 AM
8CDs at MDT for £27?
Hesitate ye not!
Oh, it's on my shelf. Need to listen 8)
Regarding Lulu I have no doubts: Stratas, Minton, conducted by Boulez (version completed by Friedrich Cehra).
Regarding Wozzeck is more difficult: I love the version of Karl Böhm, giving a good but discreet support to Fischer Dieskau and Lear. But the version of Dohnanyi has the beautiful Marie of Silja and it is very dramatic.
There is another version, with a very fast tempo, expressionist, conducted by Mitropoulos. I had it many years ago in LP. Mitropoulos is fabulous but not very subtle. The singers, however, are not at the same level.
As for Boulez and Abbado, I don't like both.
Thanks guys for all these helpful suggestions. I may get that DG box as it's such an outstanding bargain and those performances seem to be generally recommended.
Quote from: val on September 24, 2008, 11:19:46 PM
There is another version, with a very fast tempo, expressionist, conducted by Mitropoulos. I had it many years ago in LP. Mitropoulos is fabulous but not very subtle. The singers, however, are not at the same level.
This is the one I return to (in fact the only one I have nowadays). The singers, as val says, are not the finest (in fact very rough in places); the sound is poor. But it's truly searing stuff.
For Lulu, too, earlier recordings are the best. For instance
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZfBTno9lL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZfBTno9lL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Boy, what those conceptual directors won't stoop to.
I believe that is Lulu's final Act 3 Todesschrei that is depicted there....
;D
Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 25, 2008, 06:46:22 AM
This is the one I return to (in fact the only one I have nowadays). The singers, as val says, are not the finest (in fact very rough in places); the sound is poor. But it's truly searing stuff.
For Lulu, too, earlier recordings are the best. For instance
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZfBTno9lL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
--Bruce