I know that there are a number of people here who admire the music of the Austrian composer Franz Schmidt...so, a thread on Schmidt :)
The British musicologist(and good composer) Harold Truscott once said that Schmidt was "one of the greatest and most independent of symphonists". That seems to me to be a rather absurd statement, quite frankly, but that is not to deny that Schmidt was a composer of considerable substance-one of the last(if not the last) of the essentially Romantic composers working in the line of descent through composers like Brahms, Wagner, Bruckner, Strauss and Reger.
Schmidt was certainly the last major Austrian composer to follow those traditions. As such he stood apart from the path taken by Mahler, Schoenberg and the latter's followers. Although Schmidt played cello in Mahler's Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra and respected Mahler as a conductor he was less of an admirer of Mahler the composer.
There has been plenty of comment on Schmidt's symphonies elsewhere on this site. I agree with those who find the first three symphonies attractive works although I think that each is somewhat overlong and in the case of No.2 in particular, overblown. There is no doubt however that there is much to admire in the very considerable orchestral mastery Schmidt demonstrates in these symphonies.
I do think that Symphony No.4 is Schmidt's deepest symphony and one that, in its tragic pages(Schmidt composed it as a requiem for his recently deceased daughter) is profoundly moving.
The huge Oratorio "Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln" based on the Book of Revelations can be extremely impressive in a fine performance(and there are one or two around) and does stand as one of the last of the great choral masterpieces of the Austro-German tradition.
I am not sure how many will be familiar with the two concertante works on this cd-two of a clutch of pieces written for the pianist Paul Wittgenstein who had lost his right arm in the First World War-but they are well worth hearing(although not masterpieces!).
I learned to love Symphony 3 from the Pesek LP, which I later got on CD. There are some copies left on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Franz-Schmidt-Symphony-Conducting-Philharmonic/dp/B000WL19OI/
Compared to 4, it's a lighter and more light-hearted work.
My introduction to 4 was the beautiful Mehta recording...actually I think that is still the only one I have.
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 01, 2008, 02:42:04 PM
I know that there are a number of people here who admire the music of the Austrian composer Franz Schmidt...so, a thread on Schmidt :)
Thanks for starting a Schimdt thread. Unfortunately I have no time to contribute anything substantial to it right now: I'm very busy preparing for my trip to Ohio (I fly from Frankfurt this Saturday). Perhaps in five weeks, after I return, I'll go searching for the thread (I'm sure it will be about 20 or 30 pages down by that time ;) ) and when I find it, I'll say my piece.
QuoteI agree with those who find the first three symphonies attractive works although I think that each is somewhat overlong and in the case of No.2 in particular, overblown.
My appreciation of symphonies 2 and 3 rose dramatically after hearing Luisi's CDs. They don't come cheap though. Järvi and the surprising Detroit Symphony are sensational in the First, which I don't think is even a single note too long.
Sarge
The symphonies did not sustain my interest at all. but Book of Seven Seals is definately a masterpiece. I also find the quartets to be attractive.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 02, 2008, 09:20:31 AM
Thanks for starting a Schimdt thread. Unfortunately I have no time to contribute anything substantial to it right now: I'm very busy preparing for my trip to Ohio (I fly from Frankfurt this Saturday). Perhaps in five weeks, after I return, I'll go searching for the thread (I'm sure it will be about 20 or 30 pages down by that time ;) ) and when I find it, I'll say my piece.
My appreciation of symphonies 2 and 3 rose dramatically after hearing Luisi's CDs. They don't come cheap though. Järvi and the surprising Detroit Symphony are sensational in the First, which I don't think is even a single note too long.
Sarge
Don't think I can manage 20 or 30 pages myself :) :)
FWIW I just bought the Symphony No.4 and "Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln" based on this thread! I have only heard his lovely though I wouldn't say Great) quintet for piano left and strings. The Korngold Suite for similar requirements that it is coupled with on the CD I have is one of my favourite pieces of chamber music on the other hand (so to speak!). It's surprising that there's nothing for cello in his output given he was a cellist...
Oh, Guido, I do hope you like the Schmidt you bought :)
Which performances of the 4th and the Oratorio did you get?
The extremely thorough Wikipedia article on Schmidt points out that, although he was not actually the principal cellist of the Vienna Opera Orchestra(to be more accurate than the Vienna Philharmonic, as I said earlier), Mahler usually got Schmidt to play cello solos during a performance.
The Wikipedia article possibly slightly overstates the case for Schmidt but as a late Romantic he does outstrip by miles his slightly younger fellow Austrian Joseph Marx. There is none of the-to me-cloying, scented over-heated Romanticism which I hear in Marx in Schmidt's music.
These two.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DFPNG086L._SS400_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bim-yu%2BWL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 02, 2008, 04:45:29 PM
The extremely thorough Wikipedia article on Schmidt points out that, although he was not actually the principal cellist of the Vienna Opera Orchestra(to be more accurate than the Vienna Philharmonic, as I said earlier), Mahler usually got Schmidt to play cello solos during a performance.
That's not quite correct. Schmidt did often play in the principal position at the Staatsoper while Mahler was director there, but even though Mahler specifically requested him to do so, he also declined to actually appoint Schmidt permanently to the principal position (one of three actually) even though that position was open for several years and a number of other candidates came and went. Apparently, Arnold Rosé, the concertmaster and brother-in-law of Mahler, had a problem with Schmidt and there were a lot of tensions between them and intrigues going on. Schmidt got tired of this and retreated to one of the back desks even though Mahler had threatened to fire him if he did so. But then he didn't. Strange stuff.
Very interesting!
Thank you for that correction and further info' :)
Quote from: Guido on October 02, 2008, 05:30:26 PM
These two.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DFPNG086L._SS400_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bim-yu%2BWL._SS500_.jpg)
Good choices :) :)
Well, I would say that...these are the versions I have in my collection ;D
yay cheap skates!
:) :)
They were full-price when I bought them ;D
I thought Atterberg won the 1928 competition, set to celebrate the centenary of Schubert's 'Unfinished' I think.
I like the four symphonies. The first is very reminiscent of Brahms.
I find them long but not overly so.
Fortunately, Fabio Luisi has given us benchmark recordings of the symphonies and he has recorded the oratorio but I've not heard that.
Welser-Most's recording of the 4th also gives us the Variations on a Hussar's Song. Now that does outstay its welcome.
Of course, Atterberg won with his 6th Symphony the 'Dollar Symphony'!
Schmidt's 3rd was in the final...I think!!
Sorry...I don't know what came over me :(
I like Schmidt's music very much. I have listened to all the symphonies (Järvi and Mehta-4 and Pesek-3) - they are so different, I can't decide which I like best, they all have their particular beauties. I also love his Variations on a Hussar Theme, which I have on an EMI cassette I can't play anymore. :'( I mustn't forget his Oratorio, of course, where the organ solo is wonderfully sinister (IMO). I also have sitting on my hard drive several organ pieces, like the Chaconne in C sharp minor, which is really major Schmidt. His chamber music I still have to listen to.
I find his musical language very individual. Does anyone have Harold Truscott's study (never completed, only vol. 1)? I have it and it's very good. Truscott exaggerates a bit sometimes (as was his wont), but he knows his stuff and makes a strong case for Schmidt.
Quote from: Jezetha on October 03, 2008, 06:07:46 AM
I like Schmidt's music very much. I have listened to all the symphonies (Järvi and Mehta-4 and Pesek-3) - they are so different, I can't decide which I like best, they all have their particular beauties. I also love his Variations on a Hussar Theme, which I have on an EMI cassette I can't play anymore. :'( I mustn't forget his Oratorio, of course, where the organ solo is wonderfully sinister (IMO). I also have sitting on my hard drive several organ pieces, like the Chaconne in C sharp minor, which is really major Schmidt. His chamber music I still have to listen to.
I find his musical language very individual. Does anyone have Harold Truscott's study (never completed, only vol. 1)? I have it and it's very good. Truscott exaggerates a bit sometimes (as was his wont), but he knows his stuff and makes a strong case for Schmidt.
Buy the (now!) cheap Welser-Most version of the 4th-an excellent account btw-and you will get the Variations on a Hussar's Theme again, Johan ;D
Quote from: James on October 03, 2008, 06:15:08 AM
i tried to sit through one of his bloated symphonies once...ugh, it was unbearable...as with that sort-of thing i often feel that better composers can express the same things & even say so much more with fewer bars...
I think better composers are simply better at what
they want to express. Schmidt is more than competent in expressing what
he wants to express, which no one else could do for him. And that's enough for me, though evidently not for you... But I agree - there are greater composers. I know that.
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 03, 2008, 06:17:19 AM
Buy the (now!) cheap Welser-Most version of the 4th-an excellent account btw-and you will get the Variations on a Hussar's Theme again, Johan ;D
Thanks for alerting me!
Quote from: M forever on October 02, 2008, 09:44:29 PM
That's not quite correct. Schmidt did often play in the principal position at the Staatsoper while Mahler was director there
Of course the Staatsoper was the Hofoper (Court Opera) back then! $:)
Quote from: M forever on October 03, 2008, 08:35:50 PM
Of course the Staatsoper was the Hofoper (Court Opera) back then! $:)
Can you clear up for me my confusion regarding the exact set-up in Vienna in Mahler and Schmidt's time?
My understanding was that the members of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra are selected from the membership of the Vienna State Opera orchestra. This would suggest, logically, that the opera orchestra is larger than the VPO?
Mahler was the Director of the State(or, as you say, more correctly Court) Opera from 1897 until 1907 and doubled from 1898 until 1901 as Principal Conductor of the VPO.
Is that correct, as far as you know?
The Wiener Philarmoniker are a private organization founded in 1842 which is run and administrated by its members. You have to have a position in the Staatsoper orchestra for at least 3 years before you can apply for membership, although they do invite new members of the opera orchestra and outside players to help out in their concerts when needed. But you can't become a full member before you have a permanent position in the opera (the trial position in the opera is 2 years before you get a permanent contract) and another year of experience. Typically, applying for membership is just filling out a form as they obviously already know the players from everyday services at the opera, so almost all the opera orchestra players are also members of the WP. They play a limited series of subsciption concerts in Vienna every year, as well as additional subscription-free concerts and festival appearances, tours and recordings, so they are really busy, but he WP are not a full-time concert orchestra. They never had an artistic director or principal conductor, but until the 1930s, most or all of the WP subscription concerts were typically led by one conductor elected by the members every year. Often, that was the same conductor who was also principal conductor at the opera but since there is no direct technical connection between the two organizations, there is no rule which says that. Since the 1930s, they have usually invited a number of different conductors to lead the subscription series and other concerts.
Thank you for that information! That is very helpful.
There is also a lot of information about this and the WP's specific instruments and playing style on their website (in English, too!).
(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?" thread)
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Schmidt: Symphony No. 2
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Neeme Järvi, cond.
CHANDOS
I'm on a second go-round with this work, following close on the heels of a virgin voyage late last night. Having become refamiliarized with early 20th century Austrian composer Franz Schmidt's symphonic masterpiece, the Symphony No. 4 (Mehta/WP recording), a sidle backwards seemed in order. My word! If one likes to luxuriate non-stop in a certain manner of Late Romantic expression that flows from a seemingly limitless font of symphonic invention, this is for you! I'm not sure what else I can add other than Järvi and the Chicagoans manage to hold it all together in a most satisfying manner. I'd also guess, however, that this may be "too much" of a good thing for many listeners; it was somewhat the case for me last night. Perhaps experienced Brucknerians might adjust to the length and architecture more readily, though this is very much of its own expressive style, dating from 1913.
Quote from: moldyoldie on November 11, 2008, 02:24:30 PM
(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?" thread)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MH4K7W5HL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Schmidt: Symphony No. 2
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Neeme Järvi, cond.
CHANDOS
I'm on a second go-round with this work, following close on the heels of a virgin voyage late last night. Having become refamiliarized with early 20th century Austrian composer Franz Schmidt's symphonic masterpiece, the Symphony No. 4 (Mehta/WP recording), a sidle backwards seemed in order. My word! If one likes to luxuriate non-stop in a certain manner of Late Romantic expression that flows from a seemingly limitless font of symphonic invention, this is for you! I'm not sure what else I can add other than Järvi and the Chicagoans manage to hold it all together in a most satisfying manner. I'd also guess, however, that this may be "too much" of a good thing for many listeners; it was somewhat the case for me last night. Perhaps experienced Brucknerians might adjust to the length and architecture more readily, though this is very much of its own expressive style, dating from 1913.
I
am a Brucknerian, but even if I weren't, I would like this piece, I think. And as you say - Järvi and the Chicagoans are excellent.
Three cheers for Neeme Jarvi ;D
A number of members here don't rate him highly as a conductor but few of his fellows have such an extensive repertoire or have been prepared to commit so much to disc.
His work in the recording studio with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra was quite remarkable. His pioneering set of the Tubin symphonies for BIS put that composer on the musical map. I have a lot of admiration for Jarvi :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on November 11, 2008, 02:58:23 PM
Three cheers for Neeme Jarvi ;D
I have this set of Schmidt's symphonies conducted by Jarvi with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bVqdUJOdL._SS500_.jpg)
Symphonies Nos. 1-3 are excellent.
Symphony No. 4 is good, but it doesn't compare to Mehta's excellent recording with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (graciously provided HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg220592.html#msg220592)by Jezetha).
Quote from: Keemun on November 12, 2008, 05:53:30 AM
Symphonies Nos. 1-3 are excellent.
May I conclude you finally have come to like No. 2?
Quote from: Jezetha on November 12, 2008, 05:58:41 AM
May I conclude you finally have come to like No. 2?
Well, yes, but my favorites are still 1 and 4. ;)
Quote from: Keemun on November 12, 2008, 06:14:45 AM
Well, yes, but my favorites are still 1 and 4. ;)
Admirable consistency! ;)
Quote from: Keemun on November 12, 2008, 05:53:30 AM
I have this set of Schmidt's symphonies conducted by Jarvi with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bVqdUJOdL._SS500_.jpg)
Symphonies Nos. 1-3 are excellent. Symphony No. 4 is good, but it doesn't compare to Mehta's excellent recording with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (graciously provided HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg220592.html#msg220592)by Jezetha).
Must be one of the few good recordings Mehta has ever made then ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on November 12, 2008, 06:23:49 AM
Must be one of the few good recordings Mehta has ever made then ;D
At that time, I think Mehta was making good recordings: for me the slightly earlier Bruckner 9th with the WP and Schoenberg
Variations for Orchestra with the LAPO are quite possibly my favourite recordings of those pieces; his 1975 Mahler 2 with the WP I also find very fine.
I do wish he'd recorded more Schmidt: that recording of the 4th I find absolutely devastating.
Quote from: edward on November 12, 2008, 06:38:53 AM
At that time, I think Mehta was making good recordings: for me the slightly earlier Bruckner 9th with the WP and Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the LAPO are quite possibly my favourite recordings of those pieces; his 1975 Mahler 2 with the WP I also find very fine.
I do wish he'd recorded more Schmidt: that recording of the 4th I find absolutely devastating.
I accept your assessment, of course.
What went wrong then?
Quote from: edward on November 12, 2008, 06:38:53 AM
At that time, I think Mehta was making good recordings: for me the slightly earlier Bruckner 9th with the WP and Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra with the LAPO are quite possibly my favourite recordings of those pieces; his 1975 Mahler 2 with the WP I also find very fine.
I do wish he'd recorded more Schmidt: that recording of the 4th I find absolutely devastating.
I've not heard the others you mentioned, but his Mahler 2 is excellent. It ranks near the top of my list.
I have to concur with the praise conveyed here on Zubin Mehta's Vienna recording of Schmidt's Symphony No. 4. Here's a brief review pasted from "What Are You Listening To?". I'd be most interested in any brief comparisons you can make or experiences you've had with those of Welser-Möst, Järvi, or Luisi; whether musically or technically.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21E286Y05PL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Schmidt: Symphony No. 4
Vienna Philharmonic
Schoenberg: Chamber Symphony No. 1
Members of the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra
Zubin Mehta, cond.
DECCA
Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4 of 1933, written in the wake of the death of the composer's daughter, is undoubtedly his masterpiece -- an incredibly inspired extrapolation of this composer's symphonic style which I like to describe as being sort of ultra-legato Bruckner; i.e., many lines of melody and harmony undulating and intersecting unbroken in a most unique, constantly flowing Late Romantic expression. To appreciate this composer and the special beauties of this symphony in particular, the listener must allow its unbroken lines to wash over them and its ultimate logic to culminate in its own time -- patience is rewarded. I've yet to hear another recording of this work -- more recent ones I know of are from Franz Welser-Möst, Neeme Järvi, and Fabio Luisi -- but the presumptuous feeling here is it really isn't necessary as conductor Zubin Mehta and the Vienna Philharmonic seemingly convey the work's full measure and the warm, early '70s analog recording is exemplary.
On another musical plateau altogether is the appended Chamber Symphony No. 1 of Arnold Schoenberg, composed in 1906. It often hints of unabashed atonality, and at least to these ears, is not as immediately appealing. However, it can reward committed listening when heard in isolation and with an intellectual bent toward its purposely revolutionary means of musical expression. The players here are members of the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra, again under Zubin Mehta, who make a dedicated and modestly convincing case for the work.
The Zubin Mehta performance of Schmidt's 4th has been praised by a number of members here. I don't doubt for one second that it is an exceptionally fine account. I have a great deal of respect for the opinions of the members who have heard the Mehta. I suspect that it was one of Mehta's finest recordings. I have not heard it.
I do have the Welser-Most EMI recording and I-just as fervently-believe that this is one of the best interpretations of any piece that this conductor has committed to disc. Welser-Most had a torrid time as Principal Conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra-"Frankly Worse Than Most" he was nicknamed but he has survived and prospered. Though I don't often agree with Norman Lebrecht his article on Welser-Most is fair-
http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrecht/040212-NL-welsermost.html
Welser-Most will take over in 2010 as General Music Director of the Vienna State Opera.
The recording of Schmidt's 4th won the Gramophone Magazine Award for 1996 for Best Orchestral Conducting.
I cannot say that it is a superior reading to Mehta's; I don't know. It is however worth hearing!
Thank you, Dundonnell, for the response. I've read about the early Welser-Möst saga in London -- brutal. If there's credence to Lebrecht's article, it sounds as if it was a two-way street -- with both sides traveling the wrong way!
I've recently ordered W-M's recording of Bruckner's Fifth to which I'm greatly looking forward to hearing. Perhaps I'll put his Schmidt No. 4 on the shopping list; comparing performances is often instructive to this listener.
Quote from: moldyoldie on November 14, 2008, 06:06:32 PM
Thank you, Dundonnell, for the response. I've read about the early Welser-Möst saga in London -- brutal. If there's credence to Lebrecht's article, it sounds as if it was a two-way street -- with both sides traveling the wrong way!
I've recently ordered W-M's recording of Bruckner's Fifth to which I'm greatly looking forward to hearing. Perhaps I'll put his Schmidt No. 4 on the shopping list; comparing performances is often instructive to this listener.
You can't say fairer than that :)
I own the Mehta and W-M Fourths and ordered Luisi's a few days ago (I hope to have it in my hands early next week). I plan to compare the three recordings. I'll post my thoughts here.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 15, 2008, 06:58:25 AM
I own the Mehta and W-M Fourths and ordered Luisi's a few days ago (I hope to have it in my hands early next week). I plan to compare the three recordings. I'll post my thoughts here.
Sarge
Look forward to that!
(Once again, pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/618E36BSKNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Schmidt: Symphony No. 1
R. Strauss: Four Symphonic Interludes from Intermezzo
Detroit Symphony Orchestra
Neeme Järvi, cond.
CHANDOS
Continuing my backward traversal of the symphonies of Franz Schmidt (skipping over No. 3 for the time being), I've read so much of how No. 1 is derivative of this or that composer and this or that antedated construction; to me, it starts out for all the world like Schumann's Rhenish Symphony, then continues on in a delightfully flowing and melodic fashion firmly ensconced in the late 19th century Viennese tradition -- it was first performed there in 1902. (An egregious error exists in the notes: It correctly states that Schmidt was born in 1874, then later states that he wrote his First Symphony at the age of thirty-eight! It was actually composed in the years 1896-99 upon the composer's graduation from the Vienna Conservatory and in his early years serving as cellist for the Vienna Philharmonic.) Much like the other symphonies I've heard, I mostly think of Brucknerian construction, Brahmsian lyricism and Straussian lilt; but that would only be for the purposes of illustration. It's actually quite unique in voice and expression. The orchestration is often dense, but not so thick as to preclude harmonic clarity; the spaciousness of the vivid recording in Detroit's Orchestra Hall probably lends a bit of translucency to the procedings. I can't think of anything that could possibly rebuff the modern listener over it's roughly forty-five minutes and four disparate movements of nearly equal length.
The same can be said of Strauss' Four Interludes from Intermezzo. We're treated to full-bodied dramatic excitement; a delightfully lilting waltz; a dreamy reverie leading to a hyper-Romantic long-limned, er, interlude; a playful bit featuring piano and strings of an almost cloyingly obvious Viennese character -- all concluding with a brief rousing finale. Kudos must go out to Järvi and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra for the seemingly authentic qualities they evoke here -- this was great fun to listen to!
Quote from: Dundonnell on November 15, 2008, 07:03:44 AM
Look forward to that!
Had a problem with my credit card: the number was stolen and the thief made purchases in Texas, England and Italy before I became aware of the theft! I straightened it out before I left for Ohio last month and changed the CC number at amazon.com; I thought all was well. But amazon.de still had my old cancelled CC number when I placed the Schmidt order. I've re-ordered and hope to have Luisi's Schmidt 4
this week...with a review to follow.
Sarge
Quote from: moldyoldie on November 21, 2008, 11:22:24 AM
(Once again, pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/618E36BSKNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Schmidt: Symphony No. 1
R. Strauss: Four Symphonic Interludes from Intermezzo
Detroit Symphony Orchestra
Neeme Järvi, cond.
CHANDOS
This is a truly great performance, the Detroit imitating, to astonshing effect, a great central European orchestra. I have Luisi's CD too but prefer Järvi for his marginally slower tempos. The extra breadth pays dividends here (and, I think, in the Schmidt's Second and Third symphonies where Luisi is just bit slower than Järvi).
Sarge
(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bim-yu%2BWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Schmidt: Symphony No. 4; Variations on a Hussar's Song
London Philharmonic Orchestra
Franz Welser-Möst, cond.
EMI
There's no doubt in my mind that Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4 of 1933 is a true masterpiece of Late Romantic expression; its incredible inspiration draws from personal tragedy (death of the composer's adult daughter) and manifests itself in a most exquisite extended interweaving of unbroken melodic and harmonic lines across four uninterrupted movements. My sole recording till this one was that of the Vienna Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta. In my review of that recording, I stated: "I've yet to hear another recording of this work...the presumptuous feeling here is it really isn't necessary as conductor Zubin Mehta and the Vienna Philharmonic convey the full measure of this work and the warm, early '70s analog recording is exemplary." After hearing this fine Gramophone Award-winning release from Franz Welser-Möst and the London Philharmonic, my feelings remain unchanged as I don't think there's much to choose between the two, other than perhaps the couplings. I see the Mehta is also available coupled with his acclaimed recording of the Mahler Resurrection Symphony.
Welser-Möst/LPO certainly deserve a great deal of credit for their dedicated and committed performance here. Even though their timings come in considerably faster than Mehta/VPO, the overall impression is hardly one of speed and haste; the extended lines are held expressively taut throughout with fine ensemble and dynamic balance. If the Mehta perhaps offers up a bit more bittersweet languor and lush playing, Welser-Möst and the LPO still invest the work with that necessary tinge of heavyhearted optimism to underlie the tragedy - in my opinion, so important to a successful performance of this lengthy, unbroken expression. Both recordings are thoroughly recommendable.
As to the fill-up here, Variations on a Hussar's Song is a mostly delightful and contrasting multi-part makeweight in a somewhat similar idiom; it's probably worth hearing for the dedicated initiate into the music of Schmidt.
Thanks, moldyoldie, for that review. I have lived with the Mehta for more than 20 years and recently acquired the Welser-Möst. I have listened to the Variations on a Hussar's Song - which is excellently done -, but have postponed listening to the Fourth, because it's a work for which you have to be in the right mood.
Watch this space, as they say...
One small pieces by Schmidt that some members may not be aware of is a Romanza for solo piano, dating from the 1920s. It was written as a present for his English teacher, who was also best man at his wedding. It is not technically demanding, and is the only piece I know of by Schmidt originally conceived for 2 hands. It also contains many of the salient elements of Schmidt's mature style. I played it in Vienna last year, and critics seemed amazed that it existed and was unknown there. People also liked it in the UK and Russia when they heard it. It's actually published by Doeblinger, in Vienna, and is pretty cheap (or at least was, when the pound was worth something). It really is an excellent piece, and one I recommend. It's a pity that we don't have much piano music by the leading composers of this style (Mahler, Schmidt, Schreker). But then we do have Marx, Kornauth, Petyrek, Grosz etc, all of whom wrote quite a bit for the piano. Try Kolja Lessing's series of CDs 'From Schreker's Masterclass' or something along those lines) for some of this repertoire.
Very interesting, Rabbity Baxter! Regarding those 'salient elements of Schmidt's mature style' - his highly individual harmony is what most appeals to me in Franz Schmidt. Is that there too, in that rather unpretentious sounding piece? And - how long is it?
Quote from: Jezetha on February 19, 2009, 05:32:03 AM
Very interesting, Rabbity Baxter! Regarding those 'salient elements of Schmidt's mature style' - his highly individual harmony is what most appeals to me in Franz Schmidt. Is that there too, in that rather unpretentiously-sounding piece? And - how long is it?
Yes, I agree about the harmony being the most obvious indicator of this style. Sounding quite conventional then suddenly a most unexpected turn of events, but still in keeping with the overall style. But this has that great ease of relaxed melody which is prevalent in the 3rd Symphony and, like that piece, has a pretty unpretentious feel to it, as you suggest. It's about 3 or so minutes long (4 pages, relatively slow tempo).
You said you played the Romanza in public - what other composers do you regularly perform? And are you Austrian yourself?!
Quote from: Jezetha on February 19, 2009, 05:48:23 AM
You said you played the Romanza in public - what other composers do you regularly perform? And are you Austrian yourself?!
I'm not Austrian, but in fact English. I have only played in Austria once, but will do again this summer. I had a good time there!
I play lots of late 19th and early 20th C repertoire (some well-known like Ives, Rachmaninoff etc, others more obscure), then some earlier (a couple of Schubert sonatas of late) and some more recent, but mostly in the middle. In Vienna I played Petyrek, a Strauss opera transcription, Marx, Schmidt and a contemporary Austrian piece by Johannes Maria Staud.
I wonder - do you know Harold Truscott's study of Schmidt (Toccata Press, 1984). It's only the first volume of a series that unfortunately never materialised*, dealing with the orchestral music. But Truscott gives us a fine analysis of what makes Schmidt's music tick in general.
* I met Martin Anderson, the publisher, in the 'eighties, and he showed me several of Truscott's still unpublished typoscripts (one about Schubert, iirc). They erred a bit, he admitted, on the side of hyperbole and would have to be toned down somewhat. I wonder what has happened to them and if they will still be published.
The discussion of Schmidt's 4th Symphony recordings has me interested in comparing those that I have: Mehta/VPO, Welser-Möst/LPO and Jarvi/Detroit. I'm listening to them now, I'll let you know my thoughts later.
Quote from: Keemun on February 19, 2009, 11:17:20 AM
The discussion of Schmidt's 4th Symphony recordings has me interested in comparing those that I have: Mehta/VPO, Welser-Möst/LPO and Jarvi/Detroit. I'm listening to them now, I'll let you know my thoughts later.
I only have the Mehta, which is a beautiful recording. The one I'd really like to hear is with the Bruckner Linz Orchestra.
i was listening to the string quartet No.2 in G (1929).
i remember someone saying that romantic music after wagner was going to the graveyard for inspiration (in the poe sense). and i'm talking about the "decadence" in berlin at the time, and i haven't heard the eisler or weill quartets, or the PFITZNER No.2 or No3, but this quartet by schmidt seems to be the most perfect realization of the arc of chromatic playing (busoni, wolf, , reger, schoenberg, berg op.3).
the judgement between beauty and chromatic creepyness (always off camera)...as melodys melt and resurface...everything slightly plastic-y...
can i get a witness? baudelaire?
i have the fr. schubert qrt. on nimbus, and i do believe there has to be a more devoted performance out there. i can just picture a performance of real rubato depth that this qrt just seems to miss, though this disc is a great thing. i think there are two other recordings of this piece.
i do like the qrts more than the two very individual quintets, fine as they are.
Quote from: Rabbity Baxter on February 19, 2009, 06:05:34 AM
I'm not Austrian, but in fact English. I have only played in Austria once, but will do again this summer. I had a good time there!
I play lots of late 19th and early 20th C repertoire (some well-known like Ives, Rachmaninoff etc, others more obscure), then some earlier (a couple of Schubert sonatas of late) and some more recent, but mostly in the middle. In Vienna I played Petyrek, a Strauss opera transcription, Marx, Schmidt and a contemporary Austrian piece by Johannes Maria Staud.
What pieces by Ives do you play?
Quote from: snyprrr on February 22, 2009, 05:45:58 PM
i was listening to the string quartet No.2 in G (1929). ...i have the fr. schubert qrt. on nimbus, and i do believe there has to be a more devoted performance out there.
I rather doubt it. It's had very few recordings. Gramophone dismisses the old Wiener Konzerthausquartett version on Preiser. That leaves the Moyzes Quartet on Opus but it's OOP and expensive if you can locate a used copy. Do they do a better job than the Franz Schubert? I don't know. I've never heard it, and I can't find a review.
Sarge
Quote from: Guido on February 22, 2009, 06:08:45 PM
What pieces by Ives do you play?
Concord Sonata, The Celestial Railroad and a few shorter pieces like The Anti-Abolitionist Riots. Not the First Sonata. Perhaps I'll get round to that one at some point. I think it's harder than the Concord, somehow.
Hi there,
The Grant Park Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Carlos Kalmar just announced its Summer 2011 season at Millennium Park in Chicago (http://grantparkmusicfestival.com/the-music/2011-season). This year's daring and inventive programming (which might as well have been themed "Apocalypses'R'Us"), includes two performances of Schmidt's Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln, on August 12 & 13. I firstly wanted to let you know, so you can mark your calendars and come to Chicago, if that's on your way, as these concerts are ***free*** (and the sound system at Millennium Park is excellent). Kalmar is a very capable, no-nonsense conductor (music director of the Oregon Symphony and the orchestra of the RTVE in Spain.
Secondly, I wanted to ask for recording recommendations for this work. I am familiar with Schmidt's fine symphonies from Järvi's complete Detroit/Chicago set which I picked up for a mere $5 at a flea market in NY a few years ago. ;D I have never heard "the Book", though I understand it's one of Schmidt's best works. It looks like these are the options in modern sound:
The very inexpensive FWM:
[asin]B0001RVQLO[/asin]
the new *Kristjan* Järvi on SACD (coincidentally with Kalmar's old orchestra, the Tonkünstler Vienna):
[asin]B0013JZ494[/asin]
an impossibly out of print Harnoncourt (is there anything this guy *hasn't* conducted?):
[asin]B000050KFN[/asin]
...and the hard-to-get-stateside Luisi:
[asin]B0002XUW30[/asin]
I've seen your comments on the FWM recording in this thread, and I will probably go with that based on price and availability alone. But I would love to hear your thoughts on the other recordings, especially Luisi, whose work in other repertoire I greatly admire. Thanks in advance.
Bump?
Quote from: Mensch on March 03, 2011, 07:50:00 AM
I will probably go with that based on price and availability alone. But I would love to hear your thoughts on the other recordings, especially Luisi, whose work in other repertoire I greatly admire. Thanks in advance.
Sorry, I can't help you. Das Buch is the only Luisi Schmidt CD I don't have. I have Horst Stein and W-M. For price and performance you can't go wrong with the latter.
Sarge
Because of the GMG boards I downloaded Schmidt's Konzertante Variationen uber ein Thema von Beethoven and now want to listen to the symphonies. Does anyone know the the Naxos set? Is it okay or should I save up and get one of the others?
I'm having a great time with all the free Unsung Composer downloads and feel that I should actually pay for something :)
Hi, Steve! I don't know the Naxos cycle, but I do know the one by Järvi - very good. The best Fourth, on the other hand, is by Zubin Mehta. Sarge knows the other cycle, too, with Fabio Luisi. He was very positive about it.
Thanks Johan,
So much music, so little time :(
I like Schmidt,but only the 'cheerful' ones. Symphony No 4 and 'Das Buch mit wotsit' are so gloomy,especially 'Das Buch'. Try as hard as I can,I get nowhere,and the eject button is pressed.
The first and second get played the most,particularly the marvellous third,which gets played more than any of the others. The Second seems very ott in places,which is a pity,because there is allot of great sounding music there. At the same time,I have to admit,the noisy,over stuffed climaxes ARE fun!
Quote from: Hattoff on September 05, 2011, 11:42:59 PMDoes anyone know the the Naxos set? Is it okay or should I save up and get one of the others?
I was very disappointed by Sinaisky's First. The opening of the symphony is all wrong. Horrible. Perhaps that's just my problem, though, since the cycle has gotten good reviews and I've found nothing comparably bad with the other symphonies. Still, he doesn't replace old favorites. If you want my recommendation, find a used copy of the Rajter cycle with the RSO Bratislava. Rajter was a pupil and friend of Schmidt. He plays his mentor's music with authority and dedication. The Bratislava may be a second rate band but nowhere else is the music so often played, so deeply embedded in the bones of the musicians.
Luisi's is a great cycle too (would be my second choice) but still very expensive on full-priced single discs. Järvi is generally too swift for me but I love his First (he broadens his tempos here and makes Detroit sound like a central European orchestra). Favorites:
1 Rajter Järvi
2 Rajter Luisi
3 Rajter Luisi
4 Mehta Rajter Welser-Möst
Sarge
I learned something today. Thanks, Sarge.
Unfortunately,my criticism of Schmidt's Second just makes me want to listen to it again. I can't wait! I remember saying that late Mahler was gloomy and self indulgent (how original!). The next minute I was buying Mahler cd's again & ever since then I've been hooked!
I have the Clarinet Quintet lined up for later.
Thanks Sarge, I will take your advice.....The search begins.
A recording of Schmidt's opera 'Fredigundis',first performed in 1922, would be useful. I remember R3 broadcast the opera,or excerpts from it (Schmidt on Composer of The Week). In fact,I'm rather suprised Cpo,or some other such label,HASN'T recorded it. It's a gap in Schmidt's output that need to be filled in,even if isn't a masterpiece? Although,a comment on one site describes 'Fredigundis' as "probably the best opera that hardly anyone has ever heard!"
The 'website' (one page!) 'Fairness for Fredigundis' is dedicated to turning a recording of this opera into a commercial reality. According to the site,'Fredigundis' is stylistically midway between Schmidt's Second symphony and 'Das Buch mit sieben siegeln'. You can also listen to some excerpts there,although apparently,the recording quality is not very good.
Sarge has definately got a point about links (see Brian thread)!! Come on you cd labels,let's have a commercial release for this opera!
http://fredigundis.com/ (http://fredigundis.com/)
I've just started listening to Schmidt, with my entree to the symphonies the Rajter cycle and Mehta's 4th, possibly soon FWM's 4th as well. Since it's been two years since DAS BUCH was discussed, I thought I'd put in another request for discussion of the relative merits of the recordings of that work, for those who've heard more than one. MishaK listed several modern recordings at the top of this page.
I love Schmidt's symphonies, especially the 2nd and 4th. I really would like to track down Fabio Luisi's performances.
wow, a year and a half!!!
Nothing special, jus' a bump
I bought the Rajter recording of Schmidt's third a few months ago after reading some enthusiastic posts here & the reviews/comments posted on Amazon (More expense,thanks! :( ;D). I definately prefer this performance to Jarvi's and the Naxos. In fact,much as I liked this symphony anyway,this was the first time the symphony really 'worked' for me! Are the other Rajter recordings of 1,2 & 4 worth buying ,I wonder? The third is,by all accounts,particularly difficult to bring off;but maybe the lush textures of and spectacle of No's 1 & 2 gain something from the 'Chandos sound'?
Quote from: snyprrr on August 18, 2014, 07:34:20 AM
wow, a year and a half!!!
Nothing special, jus' a bump
You bumped your head? Hope you're well.
• supported Hitler for "patriotic" reasons - the Anschluss - later repudiated the Nazi movement, but not before giving the Nazi salute at the premiere of his oratorio, The Book with Seven Seals
• His lifelong friend and colleague Oskar Adler, who fled the Nazis in 1938, wrote afterwards that Schmidt was never a Nazi and never anti-semitic but was extremely naïve about politics. Hans Keller gave similar endorsement. Regarding Schmidt's political naivety, Michael Steinberg, in his magisterial book, The Symphony, tells of Schmidt's recommending Variations on a Hebrew Theme by his student Israel Brandmann to a musical group associated with the proto-Nazi German National Party.
• His first wife - Karoline - went insane, was institutionalized in 1919, and was murdered by the Nazis in 1942 as part of their euthanasia program
• First child, Emma, dies in childbirth (Symphony No.4 dedicated to her)
• father was German, mother was Slovak - his first language was Hungarian
• feud with Mahler was never resolved
• his friends included Schreker and Joseph Marx, while Krenek, Berg and Schoenberg admired him
• like Brahms, a ruthless destroyer of works deemed unworthy - most of his juvenilia is lost
• told Herbert von Karajan he had no future as a conductor! ;D
Chamber Music
==============================
3 kleine Phantasiestücke nach ungarischen Nationalmelodien, for Cello and Piano, 1892;
String Quartet in A, 1925;
Piano Quintet in G, 1926;
String Quartet in G, 1929;
Quintet in Bb for clarinet, piano, violin, viola and cello, 1932;
Quintet in A, for clarinet, piano, violin, viola and cello, 1938
Organ works - Variationen und Fuge über ein eigenes Thema, D; Königsfanfaren, 1916; Phantasie und Fuge, D, 1923–4; Königsfanfaren, 1924; Toccata, C, 1924; Präludium und Fuge, E, 1924; Chaconne, c, 1925; Königsfanfaren, wind ad lib, 1925; 4 kleine Choralvorspiele, 1926; Fuge, F, 1927; Präludium und Fuge, C, 1927; 4 kleine Präludien und Fugen, 1928; Choralvorspiel zu Haydns 'Gott erhalte', wind ad lib, 1933; Choralvorspiel 'Der Heiland ist erstanden', wind ad lib, 1934; Präludium und fuge, A, 1934; Toccata und Fuge, A, 1935
Piano Sonata No.1 in E
Piano Sonata No.2, Op.7
Romance for Piano in A (1922)
Toccata in d for left-hand (1938)
Orchestral - 4 symphonies; Konzertante Variationen über ein Thema von Beethoven, pf left hand, orch, 1923; Fuga solemnis, 16 wind, org, timp, 1937; Variationen über ein Husarenlied, 1930–31; Piano Concerto in E for left hand, 1934
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 19, 2014, 01:31:05 AM
I bought the Rajter recording of Schmidt's third a few months ago after reading some enthusiastic posts here & the reviews/comments posted on Amazon (More expense,thanks! :( ;D). I definately prefer this performance to Jarvi's and the Naxos.
I think the Pesek recording is wonderful, but the only other recording I've heard is Jarvi's. Amazon has 3 listings for it:
http://www.amazon.com/Franz-Schmidt-Symphony-Supraphon-Denon/dp/B000EO6PTM/
http://www.amazon.com/Franz-Schmidt-Symphony-Conducting-Philharmonic/dp/B000WL19OI/
http://www.amazon.com/SCHMIDT-PESEK-SLOVAK-PHILHARMONIC-ORCHESTRA/dp/B004717GKU
latest on ionarts:
Dip Your Ears, No. 213 (A Seven-Seal One Man Show)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrGiEnrXgAArhQi.jpg) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2016/09/dip-your-ears-no-213-seven-seal-one-man.html)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2011, 05:45:49 AM
I was very disappointed by Sinaisky's First. The opening of the symphony is all wrong. Horrible. Perhaps that's just my problem, though, since the cycle has gotten good reviews and I've found nothing comparably bad with the other symphonies. Still, he doesn't replace old favorites. If you want my recommendation, find a used copy of the Rajter cycle with the RSO Bratislava. Rajter was a pupil and friend of Schmidt. He plays his mentor's music with authority and dedication. The Bratislava may be a second rate band but nowhere else is the music so often played, so deeply embedded in the bones of the musicians.
Luisi's is a great cycle too (would be my second choice) but still very expensive on full-priced single discs. Järvi is generally too swift for me but I love his First (he broadens his tempos here and makes Detroit sound like a central European orchestra). Favorites:
1 Rajter Järvi
2 Rajter Luisi
3 Rajter Luisi
4 Mehta Rajter Welser-Möst
Sarge
The Rajter recordings are not easy to find at reasonable prices,and even if you find one,seller ratings are sometimes poor,and/or the feedback puts you off buying. I wasn't entirely happy with the Jarvi,and the coupling didn't help! I liked the Sinaisky even less! (Actually,not at all!) On the basis of Sarge's recommendations and some posts about recordings of the third on Amazon,I bought a copy of the Rajter s/h,some time ago. I think it is marvellous. The Jarvi and Sinaisky simply don't bear comparison. It seems to me that this symphony is very difficult to bring off in the recording studio. I am not a musician,but my ears (and brain) tell me what everyone else was saying in those Amazon posts......that Rajter has a unique understanding and feeling for this work. I also have no problem with the sound quality or the orchestra itself. I think it is very good,and less boomy than the Chandos recording;which is a tad over reverberant;which is wrong for this particular work. Rajtner makes it sound like a masterpiece;and I think it is,imho! It is also my favourite Schmidt symphony. I have now ordered a reasonable cheap s/h copy of the Fourth from a uk seller. Hopefully,I will eventually have them all! Meanwhile,some enterprising cd label really does need to look at reissuing these recordings.
Quote from: Scion7 on August 22, 2014, 01:23:36 AM
• supported Hitler for "patriotic" reasons - the Anschluss - later repudiated the Nazi movement, but not before giving the Nazi salute at the premiere of his oratorio, The Book with Seven Seals
• His lifelong friend and colleague Oskar Adler, who fled the Nazis in 1938, wrote afterwards that Schmidt was never a Nazi and never anti-semitic but was extremely naïve about politics. Hans Keller gave similar endorsement. Regarding Schmidt's political naivety, Michael Steinberg, in his magisterial book, The Symphony, tells of Schmidt's recommending Variations on a Hebrew Theme by his student Israel Brandmann to a musical group associated with the proto-Nazi German National Party.
• His first wife - Karoline - went insane, was institutionalized in 1919, and was murdered by the Nazis in 1942 as part of their euthanasia program
• First child, Emma, dies in childbirth (Symphony No.4 dedicated to her)
• father was German, mother was Slovak - his first language was Hungarian
• feud with Mahler was never resolved
• his friends included Schreker and Joseph Marx, while Krenek, Berg and Schoenberg admired him
• like Brahms, a ruthless destroyer of works deemed unworthy - most of his juvenilia is lost
• told Herbert von Karajan he had no future as a conductor! ;D
Chamber Music
==============================
3 kleine Phantasiestücke nach ungarischen Nationalmelodien, for Cello and Piano, 1892;
String Quartet in A, 1925;
Piano Quintet in G, 1926;
String Quartet in G, 1929;
Quintet in Bb for clarinet, piano, violin, viola and cello, 1932;
Quintet in A, for clarinet, piano, violin, viola and cello, 1938
Organ works - Variationen und Fuge über ein eigenes Thema, D; Königsfanfaren, 1916; Phantasie und Fuge, D, 1923–4; Königsfanfaren, 1924; Toccata, C, 1924; Präludium und Fuge, E, 1924; Chaconne, c, 1925; Königsfanfaren, wind ad lib, 1925; 4 kleine Choralvorspiele, 1926; Fuge, F, 1927; Präludium und Fuge, C, 1927; 4 kleine Präludien und Fugen, 1928; Choralvorspiel zu Haydns 'Gott erhalte', wind ad lib, 1933; Choralvorspiel 'Der Heiland ist erstanden', wind ad lib, 1934; Präludium und fuge, A, 1934; Toccata und Fuge, A, 1935
Piano Sonata No.1 in E
Piano Sonata No.2, Op.7
Romance for Piano in A (1922)
Toccata in d for left-hand (1938)
Orchestral - 4 symphonies; Konzertante Variationen über ein Thema von Beethoven, pf left hand, orch, 1923; Fuga solemnis, 16 wind, org, timp, 1937; Variationen über ein Husarenlied, 1930–31; Piano Concerto in E for left hand, 1934
Very interesting and ties in with what I thought about Franz Schmidt and his tragic life. Symphony 4 (Mehta) is my favourite. I've always rather admired Karl Amadeus Hartmann who, during the period of the Third Reich, banned the Nazi authorities from playing any of his music apart from his String Quartet based on Jewish themes, which struck me as incredibly heroic and dangerous. Needless to say his music went into something of an eclipse during the Third Reich.
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 23, 2016, 08:33:23 AMOn the basis of Sarge's recommendations and some posts about recordings of the third on Amazon,I bought a copy of the Rajter s/h,some time ago. I think it is marvellous. The Jarvi and Sinaisky simply don't bear comparison...Rajtner makes it sound like a masterpiece;and I think it is,imho! It is also my favourite Schmidt symphony. I have now ordered a reasonable cheap s/h copy of the Fourth from a uk seller. Hopefully,I will eventually have them all! Meanwhile,some enterprising cd label really does need to look at reissuing these recordings.
I'm gratified, and relieved, that I didn't steer you wrong.
Sarge
I think Jarvi is good in the First. That's the one that left me the most satisfied. Schmidt's lush orchestration benefits from the luxurious sound quality here. On the other hand,like you Sarge;I think his Second is a bit too hectic. Too ott,and while the Chandos sound IS,arguably,spectacular;it's too boomy,and actually has the effect of smothering Schmidt's orchestration. You miss allot of detail. This is Schmidt not Khatchaturian,or Ilya Murometz,we're dealing with here!! I suspect Rajter has a more measures,restrained approach. His Second will have cleaner,leaner lines,and the less resonant recording will reveal detail that goes unheard in the Jarvi recording. I am glad Chandos recorded these works,but I do wonder sometimes whether recordings like these really are helping Schmidt''s cause? Not that they are bad,or even not good. But if Rajtner's third is anything to go by,imho,Rajter is absolutely spot on in his approach. Also,despite what anyone may have read to the contrary; the orchestra and sounq quality is very good (in the third,anyway). It also works in Schmidt's favour. You get a cleaner,leaner sound. You hear more detail. The Chandos recording team made a mistake here in treating Schmidt like Strauss and going for big,boomy opulent sound. Yes,it works quite well for the First,and the loud bits in the Second are quite good fun in a Telarc "Warning! This could damage your speakers" kind of way;but that's not what Schmidt is all about!
Regarding the Luisi recordings. I remember them being released. I lookes for them on ebay and Amazon yesterday with little luck. Actually,to put it in unmusical terms.....not a sausage! Does anyone why they are SO hard to track down. I was expecting high prices perhaps;but not zilch!
The Luisi recordings are certainly still available on Amazon UK. Below are links to the symphony recordings:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Dur-MDR-08/dp/B0009UBXES/ref=pd_sim_15_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=73E4XZWXPDR0EP60G1SQ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Dur-MDR-08/dp/B0009UBXES/ref=pd_sim_15_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=73E4XZWXPDR0EP60G1SQ)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Es-Dur-MDR/dp/B0009UBXF2/ref=pd_sim_15_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9M7NHN6P29R4GGWNWJWN (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Es-Dur-MDR/dp/B0009UBXF2/ref=pd_sim_15_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9M7NHN6P29R4GGWNWJWN)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Dur-MDR-10/dp/B0009UBXFC/ref=pd_sim_15_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=N65RSBKYJFRD82VYGZFC (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-Dur-MDR-10/dp/B0009UBXFC/ref=pd_sim_15_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=N65RSBKYJFRD82VYGZFC)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-4-MDR-11/dp/B0009UBXFM/ref=pd_sim_15_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GQ08JXFXFBHZVQ35BMJJ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-Nr-4-MDR-11/dp/B0009UBXFM/ref=pd_sim_15_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GQ08JXFXFBHZVQ35BMJJ)
I have the recording of the Second and it is gorgeous but then I really like the Sinaisky versions, so your taste may not match mine. I am not as keen on the Järvi recording of the Second, however, having found it overly dense and losing its way, at several points.
I saw the VPO and Semyon Bychkov performing it at the Proms last year and that was truly something special. Hopefully, one day, they will get around to recording a full cycle.
Wierd! I looked and looked!!! This has never happened before. I tried his name,the cd label,the particular symphony I was looking for. I tried Classical,CD & Vinyl and Everything!! And I consider myself pretty well seasoned when it comes to trawling these sites for all kinds of rarities (and less rare!). What happened? A bug in the browser? Some inner voice pleading with me not to spend any more money on cds?!!
I bet you found them straight away?!! ;D
I'm not too happy with Jarvi's Second. But it's the only recording I have. Not having heard an alternative recording,it's difficult for me to really single out exactly what's wrong with it;except that,after listening to Rajter's third,I suspect he's too fast (as Sarge observes). It certainly feels too driven. And yes,I don't feel Jarvi has a real grip on the structure of the piece. It reminds me a bit of that Marco Polo Gothic here. Also,the boomy recording obscures allot of detail. It's a very noisy,bombastic reading imho. The sort of thing I might have enjoyed blasting my parents brains out with,unfortunately,as a youngster. Although,I would have only been able to hear Rajter back then!
As to Sinaisky. I think it is a matter of taste to some degree. Maybe I would like his Second better. I had his third. I'm sure his Second is better than Jarvi's. And less boomy sound!! I do like the Chandos sound (so called) usually;but not in this instance. I agree with Sarge that his First is quite good. Of course,I have no comparison;but the orchestration is very lush in places,and I think the Chandos sound is possibly a plus point in this respect?!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2011, 05:45:49 AM
I was very disappointed by Sinaisky's First. The opening of the symphony is all wrong. Horrible. Perhaps that's just my problem, though, since the cycle has gotten good reviews and I've found nothing comparably bad with the other symphonies. Still, he doesn't replace old favorites. If you want my recommendation, find a used copy of the Rajter cycle with the RSO Bratislava. Rajter was a pupil and friend of Schmidt. He plays his mentor's music with authority and dedication. The Bratislava may be a second rate band but nowhere else is the music so often played, so deeply embedded in the bones of the musicians.
Luisi's is a great cycle too (would be my second choice) but still very expensive on full-priced single discs. Järvi is generally too swift for me but I love his First (he broadens his tempos here and makes Detroit sound like a central European orchestra). Favorites:
1 Rajter Järvi
2 Rajter Luisi
3 Rajter Luisi
4 Mehta Rajter Welser-Möst
Sarge
I'm reposting this for reference purposes!
I've bought all the remaining Rajter recordings s/h,now! (Hello foodbank!! :( ;D) The Jarvi 2 is just a tad too bombastic,for me. Of course,it's the only recording I know;but having heard Rajter's third,I just don't believe that Schmidt is that kind of composer. Jarvi's recording of No 1 is very good;but I could do without the coupling. I bet Rajter's even better,though! And it's not fun having only half a cycle!! :( :(
I will certainly check out the Rajter recordings, having initially been deterred by some of the online reviews. As you noted, they're not cheap but then you get what you pay for.
Incidentally Dimitri Mitropoulos recorded the Second with the VPO in 1958. I downloaded it from Google Play, coupled with Schönberg's 'Verklärte Nacht'. The sound quality isn't the best and I found it inferior to the Sinaisky and Luisi versions but it is still of interest.
I think that Schmidt's works are hugely underrated, possibly due to his alleged Nazi affinities, even though these have been disputed. Another one of his contemporaries, whom I recently discovered and like very much is Joseph Marx. His 'Ein Herbstsymphonie' is a wonderful work and now available but only via download, performed by the American Symphony Orchestra. Some may find it overly syrupy but I love it. Definitely worth a look.
There´s a very good mono Schmidt 4th with Rudolf Moralt too.
I´ve been less impressed by Rajter, but I´ll give them another try some time.
Interesting! Thank you for your reply. That's not what I have read! ??? (Well,actually I just did!! Thank you,Turner!) Some of the London based critics,maybe? Most of the posts I've read,and many reviews,are very positive about these performances. And some admirers of this composer regard them as being as 'authentic' as it gets. After all,Rajter studied composition with Franz Schmidt (and Joseph Marx). Not that it's always as much of a plus point as it sounds. For example,Robert Stolz knew Lehar and conducted the premiere of 'The Merry Widow';but his recordings of Lehar's operettas are not up there with the best! Some of this is undoubtedly because Rajtner's orchestra are seen as a second,or,third rate orchestra (merely provincial) and from the Soviet era. Also,recording quality. Yet,as I have said I find their playing of the third symphony superior to the Chandos recording and the Sinaisky in every possible way. I'm not a musician;but it just sounds so right. Rajter and his musicians really seem to get under the skin of this symphony.......and I have no problems with the sound. To my ears it is very good for it's time and the slightly drier (but not dry!) sound quality allows you to really lap up Schmidt's wonderfully lean orchestration in all it's glory. You hear all the detail. Wonderful! As to Rajter's recordings of the other symphonies? Well,we'll see! They haven't arrived in the post yet;but his third was so good I just had to buy them! Ouch! The expense!!!! :o :( :( :( :( ;D
That said,I do think that allot of is subjective. Some one will prefer this conductor to that conductor. I'm not going to say anyone should prefer Sinaisky to Jarvi,or Luisi to Jarvi or Sinaisky,or..........whatever?!! If you find an affordable copy I would certainly recommend trying just one of Rajter's recordings. I would suggest the third,because I think it is the trickiest one to perform. Given the right conductor and orchestra I think the outcome is sublime. I think it's a wonderful symphony. And,so are all the others,for that matter!
Moralt? He conducted the classic recording of Zeller's Der Vogelhandler! A recording of Schmidt by him would be very interesting. I like old recordings,and have no problem with mono. Your ears simply adjust to the sound.
As to Luisi? His recordings have had some very good reviews. Unfortunately,they are expensive,I've spent enough already........and I've got to pay for the roof over my head!! ; :( ;D ;D I would like to have them,of course. But if I bought one,I'd want the others. Maybe,I can make some money busking,or something?!! :( ;D
Any other Rajter/Schmidt admirers here? (Where's Sarge when you need him,eh?!! ::) ;D)
I´ve got nothing against Rajter & given his interesting background, more recordings by him would indeed have been nice, if they existed.
For example, there is a relatively rare Brahms cycle (1974) which I don´t know;
I´ve only got the Suchon LP mentioned on this (partial) list, maybe a little more too:
https://www.discogs.com/artist/1052061-%C4%BDudov%C3%ADt-Rajter
+ kept Schmidt Symphonies 1,2,3 & the Opus CD release of Schmidt´s 2nd Piano Concerto & Concertante Variations
https://www.amazon.com/Schmidt-Concertante-Variations-Beethoven-Concerto/dp/B0000060JW
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/aug/29/about-franz-schmidt-composer-hitler (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/aug/29/about-franz-schmidt-composer-hitler)
I hadn't seen this article. If you scroll down to the numerous posts at the bottom (and even further!) some of the comments about the ability to "hum" excerpts from various works by Schmidt and Elgar are uninintentionally amusing! I'm not sure if I can hum any Franz Schmidt......at least,not yet;but if I l listen enough I'm sure I will be able to (I can hum Havergal Brian! ::) ;D). That said,I'm really not sure I would base the merits of a particular composer on whether I can hum his music?!!!!!!! ::)
Thank you for the link. I will have a closer look at that list after lunch.
Of course,Cpo have recorded a cd of his own music. I have no plans to buy this at present;but I will have a look at some reviews,out of curiosity.
I might add....one part of me is thinking I should have spent the money on Luisi!! :( ;D Although,that would have been more expensive. I do have a thing for pioneers,though;and Rajter was the first integral cycle. And I like his third!
I have to say that my judgement of Sinaisky is based primarily upon the recording of the Second, which I consider to be superior to Neeme Järvi's. I also liked Sinaisky's recordings of the other three, although consider Mehta and Welser-Möst's recordings of the Fourth to be superior.
It is a pleasure to discover other aficionados of Franz Schmidt, a rarity in that I have yet to hear any of his compositions that disappoint. Each one has something different to offer and all are of a very high standard.
I'll put Sinaisky's Second on my list;but I'm not going to buy anything else just yet. The constant flood of packages through the letterbox recently has become as embarassing as it is expensive! As I said,Luisi is out for now,as far as I'm concerned. If I buy one ,knowing me,if I like it I'll want all the others;and I've spent enough on Rajter!! :( :( ;D To be fair to Jarvi,I admire his enterprise. I would have enjoyed his Second more as a youngster. At my age I need more subtlety! A recordings ability to pulverise loudspeakers and my parents into submission with loud,boomy,recordings is not a priority anymore. And it shouldn't be! ::) ;D
Quote from: Turner on September 25, 2016, 02:02:46 AM
There´s a very good mono Schmidt 4th with Rudolf Moralt too.
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 25, 2016, 02:50:19 AM
Moralt? He conducted the classic recording of Zeller's Der Vogelhandler! A recording of Schmidt by him would be very interesting. I like old recordings,and have no problem with mono.
There's also a fabulous
Der Ring des Nibelungen conducted by Moralt (with the Vienna Symphony). I own 14 Rings and Moralt's is my favorite of the "historic" Rings. Unfortunately the version I have was amatuerishly put together (cheap paper box, no cast listing, no pauses between scenes and acts...the music just runs together....among other horrors). But the singing and conducting are so good (and so flexible) I can overlook the shoddy production.
Sarge
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 25, 2016, 03:26:38 AM
I might add....one part of me is thinking I should have spent the money on Luisi!! :( ;D Although,that would have been more expensive. I do have a thing for pioneers,though;and Rajter was the first integral cycle. And I like his third!
Luisi can wait. I think you'll be happy with Ratjer...at least I hope you'll be. If not, I'll send you my Luisi discs in penance for steering you wrong ;D
Sarge
Zeller's Der Vogelhandler is,of course,a Viennese operetta;and one of the very best ones if you like that sort of thing! But the point I'm making is that Moralt's performance has that Viennese/Austrian feel for the genre;which is so difficult to replicate in the studio. So,a Moralt conducted Schmidt symphony would obviously be interesting to hear. Different kind of music,of course....but it sounds intriguing. Opening the booklet that comes with the Zeller operetta I notice another connection. The lead tenor soloist,Julius Patzak,who was Viennese,studied music and conducting with Guido Adler,a friend of Bruckner and Franz Schmidt.
I suppose I could put up a post in a week or two saying how disappointed I am with Ratjer 1,2 & 4! Hello free Luisi cd's! :)
Ooops! I've told you now!! ??? ;D
As a side remark, Patzak is a soloist on the Amadeo/MHS stereo recording of Das Buch mit Sieben Siegeln, conducted by Lippe.
I remember it as a surprisingly moving recording.
Gave the Quintet for Left-Hand Piano & Strings in G Major (1926, written for Paul Wittgenstein, edited for piano two hands by Friedrich Wührer) a listen, in a couple of old LP-versions:
(http://classicrecords.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SDD491.jpg)
- Vienna Philharmonia Quintet, Decca LP
(http://991.com/newgallery/Franz+Schmidt+Drei+Kammermusikwerke+650156.jpg)
- Demus, Wiener Konzerthaus Quartett / Da Camera 2LP
It´s a relatively lyrical and bright work, and quite funny how traits of the first movement remind so much of the Tchaikovsky 3rd Piano Concerto.
To me, the Decca version had a much warmer sound, plus many more nuances in the playing.
Quote from: Turner on September 25, 2016, 12:13:54 PM
Gave the Quintet for Left-Hand Piano & Strings in G Major (1926, written for Paul Wittgenstein, edited for piano two hands by Friedrich Wührer) a listen, in a couple of old LP-versions:
I have not listened to that in quite some time. I'll get to it this week. I have Fleisher, Ma and company.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/Schmidt3.jpg)
Sarge
Cross-posted from the WAYLTN thread:
Quote from: ritter on September 26, 2016, 12:49:52 PM
Erich Leinsdorf conducting Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 2 (live in 1983) from this set:
[asin]B00009YW8Y[/asin]
This ultra-lush, late romantic music isn't really my thing, but somehow I have a soft spot for Schmidt (particularly the Schubertian Symphony No. 3 and the glorous, OTT Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln). The recent discussions in the composer's thread (very interesting--hat-tip to Sarge et al.) made me remember I owned this recording, which I actually hadn't listened to (I bought this set for Karl Böhm conducting Schoenberg and Berg). My exposure to the symphonies was through Neeme Järvi on Chandos (and for he time being I don't really need another set--but if the much-lauded Rajter appears at a decent price, I might be tempted ;)).
Strange how Erich Leinsdorf was never regarded as a conductor of the first rank, despite the significant posts he held. His rendition of this Symphony No. 3 is quite good (IMHO, and based on what I've listened to so far--the first two movements). In any event, Leinsdorf was a solid musician with an admirable breadth of repertoire. And, heck, I (an impressionable youngster then) saw the man conduct Rheingold and Siegfried at the MET in 1983, and have good memories of those performances. :)
Any of you seasoned Schmidtians know this recording? IIRC, it hasn't been mentioned here...
Regards,
EDIT: That second movement,
allegretto con variazioni, ROCKS! :) 8)
Quote from: ritter on September 26, 2016, 12:54:02 PMEDIT: That second movement, allegretto con variazioni, ROCKS! :) 8)
Agreed. How many theme and variation sets are an adagio followed by a scherzo where not only the scherzo, but also the trio, are themselves variations??
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 25, 2016, 07:23:59 AM
Luisi can wait. I think you'll be happy with Ratjer...at least I hope you'll be. If not, I'll send you my Luisi discs in penance for steering you wrong ;D
Sarge
Sarge! I still owe you one for inducing to spend your hard earned dosh on Lachner's Fifth!! :-[ It did have quite an arresting horn theme in the first movement,which led,unfortunately,to tha rush of blood to the head. I just can't help but think what a genius like Schubert,might have been able to do with it! Other than that?!! ::)
All the Rajter cds have arrived now. I particularly enjoyed his performance of the Second. It is definitely to be preferred to Jarvi's,in my book,anyway! He really has a grip on the architecture of the piece,unlike Jarvi. Also,the recording is so much cleaner. The Jarvi is superficially spectacular;but actually all the detail is swamped by the reverberant sound,and it sounds way over the top! The Rajter recording feels like it's being tested to it's limits by some of the bigger sounds;but you hear all the detail,which is so important. As to No1? It may be my imagination;but I'm sure that the recording of No 2 has slightly better sound. The Second seems to open out more. I enjoyed Rajter's First very much;but I do think Jarvi,as you yourself have observed,has the edge here. The sumptuous sound of the Chandos recording is also an advantage here;but it's nice to be able to concentrate on the Schmidt without the the Strauss fill-ups. I like Strauss;but I could have done without those. I liked Rajter's Fourth,too. I am going to listen to it again very soon!!!
A fantastic cycle,imho! :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 30, 2016, 10:57:09 AM
Sarge! I still owe you one for inducing to spend your hard earned dosh on Lachner's Fifth!! :-[ It did have quite an arresting horn theme in the first movement,which led,unfortunately,to tha rush of blood to the head. I just can't help but think what a genius like Schubert,might have been able to do with it! Other than that?!! ::)
All the Rajter cds have arrived now. I particularly enjoyed his performance of the Second. It is definitely to be preferred to Jarvi's,in my book,anyway! He really has a grip on the architecture of the piece,unlike Jarvi. Also,the recording is so much cleaner. The Jarvi is superficially spectacular;but actually all the detail is swamped by the reverberant sound,and it sounds way over the top! The Rajter recording feels like it's being tested to it's limits by some of the bigger sounds;but you hear all the detail,which is so important. As to No1? It may be my imagination;but I'm sure that the recording of No 2 has slightly better sound. The Second seems to open out more. I enjoyed Rajter's First very much;but I do think Jarvi,as you yourself have observed,has the edge here. The sumptuous sound of the Chandos recording is also an advantage here;but it's nice to be able to concentrate on the Schmidt without the the Strauss fill-ups. I like Strauss;but I could have done without those. I liked Rajter's Fourth,too. I am going to listen to it again very soon!!!
A fantastic cycle,imho! :)
I can breathe easier now ;) The Järvi First is spectacular...would probably be my desert island choice. But Rajter is really good, too, and preferable, I think, in 2 and 3. Mehta is still incomparable in the Fourth (especially if one is contemplating suicide ;D )
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 30, 2016, 11:20:28 AM
I can breathe easier now ;) The Järvi First is spectacular...would probably be my desert island choice. But Rajter is really good, too, and preferable, I think, in 2 and 3. Mehta is still incomparable in the Fourth (especially if one is contemplating suicide ;D )
Sarge
After reading your reply I just had to buy the Mehta Fourth. Not being'into' Schoenberg I bought the one coupled with Mahler's Second. This has some very enthusiastic reviews dotted around the internet. Christa Ludwig singing.....so it sounds good to me!Schmidt Four,then Mahler Two;sounds ideal,really. And great for when you're feeling suicidal,I fear,sarge?!! :( ;D
Quote from: Turner on September 25, 2016, 12:13:54 PM
Gave the Quintet for Left-Hand Piano & Strings in G Major (1926, written for Paul Wittgenstein, edited for piano two hands by Friedrich Wührer) a listen, in a couple of old LP-versions:
(http://classicrecords.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SDD491.jpg)
To me, the Decca version had a much warmer sound, plus many more nuances in the playing.
This was re-issued on CD by Decca with the Bruckner quintet, latest issue by Australian eloquence. By now there are also recordings of the orginal (left hand only) versions (I am not complete sure about the Marco Polo as I have only the A major). The pieces are somewhat massive late romantic behemoths but worthwhile (if one likes larger scale chamber music and/or clarinets) and it is a pity (while understandable) that they are rather neglected.
[asin]B0007MR2L6[/asin][asin]B000028B1W[/asin] [asin]B0000045XT[/asin] [asin]B000024OK7[/asin]
I often listen to the Marco Polo cd of the Clarinet Quintet in A Major. It lasts for 60' 07'';and it's wonderful music imho. It's also has good recording quality unlike some of their efforts. The atmosphere and sound world of it has allot in common with his third symphony.
Schmidt's symphonies are amazing, placing him third, IMHO, in the list of composers of four such works, behind Brahms and Schumann. Erm...discuss!
[For anyone who may have happened across a near-identical post to this on another forum, yes, I'm shamelessly repeating myself in the hope of generating further discussion!]
Quote from: Leggiero on November 25, 2016, 03:08:14 AM
Schmidt's symphonies are amazing, placing him third, IMHO, in the list of composers of four such works, behind Brahms and Schumann. Erm...discuss!
4-symphony-composers would include Szymanowski, Valen, Kokkonen (excluding the Chamber Symphony), Draeseke, Magnard, Roussel, Rangström, plus the lesser known Erdmann, Cyril Scott, Van Gilse, Le Flem, Wallingford Riegger, Hans Gal, Bendix, Gernsheim (excluding no.0), A. Tcherepnin ...
EDIT: cf. post by Leggiero below: Tippett as well ...
Quote from: Turner on November 25, 2016, 06:18:16 AM
4-symphony-composers would include Szymanowski, Valen, Kokkonen (excluding the Chamber Symphony), Draeseke, Magnard, Roussel, Rangström, plus the lesser known Erdmann, Cyril Scott, Van Gilse, Le Flem, Wallingford Riegger, Hans Gal, Bendix, Gernsheim 8excluding no.0), A. Tcherepnin ...
probably more too ...
Some stiff competition amongst that lot, I agree, but I think I'll stick to placing him third, even though I'm a fan of the Tippett cycle (no.3 lets those down, I feel).
Lutoslawski and Berlioz as well.
(For the record, Berlioz' are Fantastique, Harold en Italie, Romeo et Juliette and the Grand Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale, all redefining what the symphony in the 19th century is.)
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 25, 2016, 10:01:38 AM
Lutoslawski and Berlioz as well.
(For the record, Berlioz' are Fantastique, Harold en Italie, Romeo et Juliette and the Grand Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale, all redefining what the symphony in the 19th century is.)
D'you know, I hadn't even considered Berlioz, given that none of his symphonies has a "traditional" title! OK, let's qualify my criterion by saying we're talking about composers of 4
numbered symphonies, in which case Schmidt still pips Lutoslawski for me...
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 25, 2016, 10:01:38 AM
Lutoslawski and Berlioz as well.
(For the record, Berlioz' are Fantastique, Harold en Italie, Romeo et Juliette and the Grand Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale, all redefining what the symphony in the 19th century is.)
Important additions, of course.
I´m not sure where to place Schmidt in a personal ranking, but Luto, Szymanowski, Schumann, Berlioz would probably come before, likely also Erdmann and Roussel. I think Valen´s symphonies are somewhat elusive & could use some more recordings, luxurious and "romantic".
Quote from: Turner on November 25, 2016, 06:18:16 AM
4-symphony-composers would include Szymanowski, Valen, Kokkonen (excluding the Chamber Symphony), Draeseke, Magnard, Roussel, Rangström, plus the lesser known Erdmann, Cyril Scott, Van Gilse, Le Flem, Wallingford Riegger, Hans Gal, Bendix, Gernsheim (excluding no.0), A. Tcherepnin ...
EDIT: cf. post by Leggiero below: Tippett as well ...
What's wrong with Brahms?
Quote from: The new erato on November 25, 2016, 11:39:04 AM
What's wrong with Brahms?
He had already been mentioned, along with Schumann (who has a small 5th, by the way - the Zwickau Symphony).
Quote from: Turner on November 25, 2016, 11:42:36 AM
He had already been mentioned, along with Schumann (who has a small 5th, by the way - the Zwickau Symphony).
No time to read the whole thread unfortunately. :-[
Quote from: Turner on November 25, 2016, 11:37:24 AM
Important additions, of course.
I´m not sure where to place Schmidt in a personal ranking, but Luto, Szymanowski, Schumann, Berlioz would probably come before, likely also Erdmann and Roussel. I think Valen´s symphonies are somewhat elusive & could use some more recordings, luxurious and "romantic".
Valen's symphonies are certainly distinctive, but I find them very inward-looking, as though we're being granted a privileged glimpse of a private, insular world, albeit a frequently beguiling one. C/f Schmidt, in his 4th, forging something universal out of personal tragedy.
Just to let others know that Semyon Bychkov has recently released a recording of the second symphony, with the Vienna Philharmonic, and it is simply glorious. Christmas has come early! Grab it while you can.
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AiXshiCZL._SS500.jpg)
Quote from: Templeton on June 17, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
Just to let others know that Semyon Bychkov has recently released a recording of the second symphony, with the Vienna Philharmonic, and it is simply glorious. Christmas has come early! Grab it while you can.
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AiXshiCZL._SS500.jpg)
Seconded!
(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/09/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_SCHMIDT-Franz_Bychkov_Sy-2_SONY_Laurson_960.jpg?width=960)
Classical CD Of The Week: Zeitgeist And The Symphony -- A Viennese Treasurehttps://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/09/27/classical-cd-of-the-week-zeitgeist-and-the-symphony-a-viennese-treasure/#10ae153f662e (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/09/27/classical-cd-of-the-week-zeitgeist-and-the-symphony-a-viennese-treasure/1#47d42f74662e)
Quote from: Templeton on June 17, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
Just to let others know that Semyon Bychkov has recently released a recording of the second symphony, with the Vienna Philharmonic, and it is simply glorious. Christmas has come early! Grab it while you can.
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AiXshiCZL._SS500.jpg)
+1 A glorious recording of a glorious work.
Latest SBB-RR-section udpated with links and pix and formatting:
Franz Schmidt - Recommended Recordings
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeNskuAW4AUWFC_.jpg)
https://surprisedbybeautyorg.wordpress.com/2017/01/07/franz-schmidt-recommended-recordings/ (https://surprisedbybeautyorg.wordpress.com/2017/01/07/franz-schmidt-recommended-recordings/)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 27, 2018, 08:01:15 AM
Latest SBB-RR-section udpated with links and pix and formatting:
Franz Schmidt - Recommended Recordings
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeNskuAW4AUWFC_.jpg)
https://surprisedbybeautyorg.wordpress.com/2017/01/07/franz-schmidt-recommended-recordings/ (https://surprisedbybeautyorg.wordpress.com/2017/01/07/franz-schmidt-recommended-recordings/)
Thanks for the list. I'm interested in hearing Book with Seven Seals soon, so I think I'll check out Mitropoulos and Welser-Most.
Quote from: Mahlerian on May 27, 2018, 08:09:08 AM
Thanks for the list. I'm interested in hearing Book with Seven Seals soon, so I think I'll check out Mitropoulos and Welser-Most.
Delighted to be of service in any small way. :D
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 27, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
Delighted to be of service in any small way. :D
Even if we hold different views about a whole bunch of things, I always find reading your take enlightening.
(More so than Hurwitz...)
Quote from: Mahlerian on May 27, 2018, 09:28:21 AM
Even if we hold different views about a whole bunch of things, I always find reading your take enlightening. (More so than Hurwitz...)
Thanks. Different views are the spice and necessity of an invariably subjective topic like art. As long as you know that I take everything I say myself with just a grain of salt.
(I.e. I know that even opinions I dearly hold are ultimately just that.)
I did NOT read your addendum, nor will I comment on it. ;D
Cross-posted from the WAYL2 thread:
Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VIYwNujgL.jpg)
Schmidt's The Book with Seven Seals is growing on me. I listened to the EMI version (Welser-Möst) a few weeks ago. It seemed to me that more could be done of the work's often jagged rythms, which generate much of the drama. Mitropoulos certainly gives the work its due when it comes to its theatrical side. But he (Mitropoulos) was a mystic, which also comes across in the way he shapes the orchestral narrative, especially in the all-important visions of St John. The latter's part is declaimed, not sung. Anton Dermota's immense experience as the Evangelist in many performances/recordings of Bach's Passions really tells. His beautiful, plangent, slightly nasal tone is always at the service of his sensitivity to the text. Stig Andersen on EMI is very good, but Dermota simply is St John.
The other singers do not have all that much to say or sing, but it is well done. The solo soprano, alto and tenor parts are unusually small. The bass (excellent Walter Berry) gets to sing with them and, in this recording, sing the lines of Jesus as well (W-M has two basses, which is a waste IMO). The chorus sings well but, except in the mighty concluding Hallelujah chorus they do not seem to be in large numbers, possibly the fault of a slightly recessed sound. Ditto with the orchestra. If told they were the Bochumer Symphoniker, instead of the Wiener Philharmoniker, I would have believed it. Not that they play badly, just that the recording (live, mono) does them no favour and cannot hold a candle to the fine 1997 Herkulessaal effort from the EMI team.
So it is. Mitropoulos and his forces penetrate the spirit and musical idiom of Schmidt's gnarly masterpiece to startling effect. I prefer it to the Welser-Möst performance. It is much more gripping. On the technical side one cannot ignore the fact that this work cries out for the full splendour modern recording techniques can reveal. An important historical document then, but a second choice to a more modern recording of equal artistic merit - which I have yet to discover.
Cross-posted from the WAYL2 thread
Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51maL%2Br1uZL.jpg)
Works for piano, left hand and orchestra, commissioned by - who else? - Paul Wittgenstein. Schmidt also wrote three large-scale piano (left hand) quintets for him.
The Concertante Variations (1923) are based on a well-known theme from Beethoven's Spring sonata. The theme is stated only after a beautiful, substantial introduction. Anyone who likes the Reger sets of orchestral variations (Mozart, Hiller, Telemann, Beethoven) will enjoy this very fine piece.
The concerto (1934) is less conversational in manner, with lengthy solos for the pianist. It is a more serious piece, sometimes hinting at Rachmaninoff.
Production values are high. This record is part of the MDR Edition under Maestro Luisi on the Querstand label. Superb sound. Recommended if the style appeals.
(https://paavojarvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/franz-schmidt-complete-symphonies-paavo-jarvi.jpg)
I'm listening to the 4th of this recent release, and I must say it is succeeding my expectations. Truly imposing performance with an unbeatable sound quality. Sounds spacious, vivid, moving, and even sensuous in some parts. The 2nd movement is incredible! It may be better than the Mehta recording.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
(https://paavojarvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/franz-schmidt-complete-symphonies-paavo-jarvi.jpg)
I'm listening to the 4th of this recent release, and I must say it is succeeding my expectations. Truly imposing performance with an unbeatable sound quality. Sounds spacious, vivid, moving, and even sensuous in some parts. The 2nd movement is incredible! It may be better than the Mehta recording.
From the sample extracts on amazon it sounded like a truly great performance. This was reinforced by a friend of mine who has the set.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 12, 2020, 12:28:37 PM
From the sample extracts on amazon it sounded like a truly great performance. This was reinforced by a friend of mine who has the set.
It is, Jeffrey. Astonishing to say the least. One of the best releases DG has issued recently. This work deserves to get it.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
(https://paavojarvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/franz-schmidt-complete-symphonies-paavo-jarvi.jpg)
I'm listening to the 4th of this recent release, and I must say it is succeeding my expectations. Truly imposing performance with an unbeatable sound quality. Sounds spacious, vivid, moving, and even sensuous in some parts. The 2nd movement is incredible! It may be better than the Mehta recording.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 12, 2020, 12:28:37 PM
From the sample extracts on amazon it sounded like a truly great performance. This was reinforced by a friend of mine who has the set.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 01:28:31 PM
It is, Jeffrey. Astonishing to say the least. One of the best releases DG has issued recently. This work deserves to get it.
So does this set surpass those of
Sinaisky and
Jaervi Senior?
Quote from: Cato on March 15, 2021, 04:38:13 PM
So does this set surpass those of Sinaisky and Jaervi Senior?
I don't know the Sinaisky, but this P. Järvi is much better than the N. Järvi on Chandos.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
(https://paavojarvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/franz-schmidt-complete-symphonies-paavo-jarvi.jpg)
I'm listening to the 4th of this recent release, and I must say it is succeeding my expectations. Truly imposing performance with an unbeatable sound quality. Sounds spacious, vivid, moving, and even sensuous in some parts. The 2nd movement is incredible! It may be better than the Mehta recording.
I listened to it recently as well and completely agree with you. What an incredibly moving work, undoubtedly one of the great symphonies of the 20th century and a masterpiece of cyclic form. The way Schmidt weaves the material of the opening trumpet lament into the work at various points is really masterful.
Quote from: Cato on March 15, 2021, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
(https://paavojarvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/franz-schmidt-complete-symphonies-paavo-jarvi.jpg)
I'm listening to the 4th of this recent release, and I must say it is succeeding my expectations. Truly imposing performance with an unbeatable sound quality. Sounds spacious, vivid, moving, and even sensuous in some parts. The 2nd movement is incredible! It may be better than the Mehta recording.
So does this set surpass those of Sinaisky and Jaervi Senior?
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 15, 2021, 06:06:24 PM
I don't know the Sinaisky, but this P. Järvi is much better than the N. Järvi on Chandos.
Thank you! Somebody on Amazon, who claims to be a great expert on the 4 symphonies of Schmidt, complained of the ambience and sound of the DGG recordings, but others agree with you.
I never had much time for Schmidt. I find that many of his musical ideas just don't stick well with me. It's almost like he's struggling to find a compositional voice of his own and never could find it. His 4th symphony is probably the one that is the more personally affecting to me, but, by this time, he was already late in compositional career having died six years later from the completion of this symphony. It seems that personal tragedy brought out the more personal voice of his music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 16, 2021, 11:40:53 AM
I never had much time for Schmidt. I find that many of his musical ideas just don't stick well with me. It's almost like he's struggling to find a compositional voice of his own and never could find it. His 4th symphony is probably the one that is the more personally affecting to me, but, by this time, he was already late in compositional career having died six years later from the completion of this symphony. It seems that personal tragedy brought out the more personal voice of his music.
Yes, it is the 4th which has really stood out for me. I'm only really familiar with Mehta's pioneering performance, which I originally owned on LP.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 16, 2021, 01:37:41 PM
Yes, it is the 4th which has really stood out for me. I'm only really familiar with Mehta's pioneering performance, which I originally owned on LP.
A fine performance and, yeah, I'm not too familiar with many other performances.
Quote from: kyjo on March 15, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
I listened to it recently as well and completely agree with you. What an incredibly moving work, undoubtedly one of the great symphonies of the 20th century and a masterpiece of cyclic form. The way Schmidt weaves the material of the opening trumpet lament into the work at various points is really masterful.
A masterpiece for sure. The Mehta recording and this one do justice to the work.
Quote from: Cato on March 16, 2021, 04:09:56 AM
So does this set surpass those of Sinaisky and Jaervi Senior?
Thank you! Somebody on Amazon, who claims to be a great expert on the 4 symphonies of Schmidt, complained of the ambience and sound of the DGG recordings, but others agree with you.
That guy must be too picky then. That's a stunning performance and recording to my ears.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 16, 2021, 04:23:40 PM
That guy must be too picky then. That's a stunning performance and recording to my ears.
Many thanks for your opinion! Our members here are the most trustworthy! 0:) 0:) 0:)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 16, 2021, 11:40:53 AM
I never had much time for Schmidt. I find that many of his musical ideas just don't stick well with me. It's almost like he's struggling to find a compositional voice of his own and never could find it. His 4th symphony is probably the one that is the more personally affecting to me, but, by this time, he was already late in compositional career having died six years later from the completion of this symphony. It seems that personal tragedy brought out the more personal voice of his music.
Another example of me eating my own words. I've come to enjoy more of this composer's music lately. Namely, the 2nd symphony, which is an absolute treasure chest of beautiful ideas. The opening motif alone sends me to quite a tranquil and sunlit place. It also reminds me of spring for some odd reason. Almost like a reawakening of the spirit in a way. Looking forward to digging into the 1st and 3rd symphonies, which I don't know well at all.
Well, at least you're making amends by adopting him as your avatar - for now :D.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 02, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
Another example of me eating my own words. I've come to enjoy more of this composer's music lately. Namely, the 2nd symphony, which is an absolute treasure chest of beautiful ideas. The opening motif alone sends me to quite a tranquil and sunlit place. It also reminds me of spring for some odd reason. Almost like a reawakening of the spirit in a way. Looking forward to digging into the 1st and 3rd symphonies, which I don't know well at all.
The 2nd is a terrific score. Its style reminds me of Bruckner and Strauss in how imposing, challenging, devotional and chromatic sounds like. The 2nd movement is my favorite, with a splendidly lyrical section around 6:30 that just melts my heart. That is a tune with technique!!
The No. 3 in A major could be the more challenging or chromatic of the bunch. The style is rather "autumnal", sober, very introspective in my view. That work has grown on me over the years. And the 1st is so lovely. Schmidt pays homage to Bruckner with a motif or an idea in the endearing 2nd movement which seems belonging to Bruckner's 7th Symphony. He's an interesting composer for sure. His chamber music has some gems too: the Piano Quintet in G major and the Clarinet and Piano (left hand) Quintet in A major.
Quote from: André on November 02, 2021, 05:25:45 PM
Well, at least you're making amends by adopting him as your avatar - for now :D.
Indeed! 8)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 02, 2021, 06:17:32 PM
The 2nd is a terrific score. Its style reminds me of Bruckner and Strauss in how imposing, challenging, devotional and chromatic sounds like. The 2nd movement is my favorite, with a splendidly lyrical section around 6:30 that just melts my heart. That is a tune with technique!!
The No. 3 in A major could be the more challenging or chromatic of the bunch. The style is rather "autumnal", sober, very introspective in my view. That work has grown on me over the years. And the 1st is so lovely. Schmidt pays homage to Bruckner with a motif or an idea in the endearing 2nd movement which seems belonging to Bruckner's 7th Symphony. He's an interesting composer for sure. His chamber music has some gems too: the Piano Quintet in G major and the Clarinet and Piano (left hand) Quintet in A major.
Excellent to read, Cesar. Glad you enjoy this composer's music as well. I'm just starting to really get reacquainted with it after a long hiatus. The chamber works are definitely on my must-hear list along with
Notre Dame.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 02, 2021, 07:44:59 PM
Excellent to read, Cesar. Glad you enjoy this composer's music as well. I'm just starting to really get reacquainted with it after a long hiatus. The chamber works are definitely on my must-hear list along with Notre Dame.
Good stuff, John. The
Husar Variations also contain some remarkable music and ideas. His organ works are virtually unknown to me, and that's a significant deal of his output.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 02, 2021, 07:55:20 PM
Good stuff, John. The Husar Variations also contain some remarkable music and ideas. His organ works are virtually unknown to me, and that's a significant deal of his output.
I'll gladly skip over the organ works, but yes,
Variations on a Hussar's Song is a great piece.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71drgOBNdiL._SL400_.jpg)
Listening to the 4th as I write, after Welser-Möst, Moralt, Rajter (last week) and before Mehta (tomorrow).
It is indeed a very, very fine performance, definitely digging deeper into the score than WM and Rajter, but less than Moralt, whose searing conception is carried out by the Wiener Symphoniker as if it was their last concert on this earth.
I noticed a couple of thematic connections with other composers' works. The opening trumpet solo (reprised at the beginning of III) is varied into a motto that is used by Strauss in Elektra (Elektra's opening scene, when she calls out the ghost of her slain father: 'Agamemnon!') - and then in II, Delius' shadow hovers, especially in the ascending scales of the long opening theme, first heard on the cello (hardly noticeable), then on the strings (more so) and then the clarinet and oboe (unmistakeable). I'm sure these are not quotes, not even influences other than a common Austro-German post-romantic heritage. Still, for some strange reason these perceived links to Strauss and Delius make me appreciate Schmidt even more.
Reposted from the "blown away" thread:
Schmidt: Piano Quintet in G major (1926)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZO7OVrA-L._SY355_.jpg)
Where has this work been all my life?? It's written in Schmidt's characteristically rather understated (but never dull!) and bittersweet style, juxtaposing winding chromatic harmonies with beautiful diatonic melodies. The whole work is excellent, but Schmidt had a real knack for writing deeply touching slow movements, and this one is certainly no exception. It's stunningly beautiful in its timeless simplicity, and I won't deny that it brought me to tears!! Needless to say, the performance by these "big name" artists is uniformly superb and gives this splendid music the advocacy it so richly deserves. Any self-respecting Schmidt and/or chamber music enthusiast needs to hear this work!!
A fresh release (but not much so in terms of the recording date) of Schmidt's second and last opera.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYwMDUyOS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTEzNTg3Nzl9)
A fine tribute to Schmidt on his 150th anniversary would be a new recording of his string quartets, being this Nimbus CD the only one that with good sound and has both quartets. This music is interesting and it grows on you with repeated listens.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/NI5467.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 04, 2024, 04:15:17 PMA fine tribute to Schmidt on his 150th anniversary would be a new recording of his string quartets, being this Nimbus CD the only one that with good sound and has both quartets. This music is interesting and it grows on you with repeated listens.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/NI5467.jpg)
Indeed, Cesar. Schmidt had a pattern of writing emotionally withdrawn, thematically elusive first movements to his chamber works - I sense this in both SQs as well as the Quintet in B-flat for clarinet, piano, and strings. And then, in the remaining movements, he "opens up" sonically and emotionally, especially in the slow movements which are often very deeply-felt and contain occasional echoes of Hungarian folk music (to my ears). I could see if people might get put off by the first movements of these quartets (particularly the one in A major, IIRC), but they should persist because there is some really fine music awaiting them later on. I agree that Schmidt's music has a subtle and complex quality that rewards repeated listening!
If anyone wants the Moyzes Quartet recording they can PM me.
Quote from: kyjo on June 04, 2024, 08:41:27 PMIndeed, Cesar. Schmidt had a pattern of writing emotionally withdrawn, thematically elusive first movements to his chamber works - I sense this in both SQs as well as the Quintet in B-flat for clarinet, piano, and strings. And then, in the remaining movements, he "opens up" sonically and emotionally, especially in the slow movements which are often very deeply-felt and contain occasional echoes of Hungarian folk music (to my ears). I could see if people might get put off by the first movements of these quartets (particularly the one in A major, IIRC), but they should persist because there is some really fine music awaiting them later on. I agree that Schmidt's music has a subtle and complex quality that rewards repeated listening!
It never ceases to amaze me how our own perception on music changes over the years. When I first heard those quartets I found them dull and too "advanced" (especially the one in G major), but now they sounded like completely different and attractive pieces. Granted, the G major quartet is not an easy piece, but I did find it more approachable this time. Have you ever heard his monumental Quintet in A major for clarinet, piano and string trio? All of the features you mentioned appear there in spades. That truly is a masterpiece, his last one to be more precise.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 06, 2024, 10:32:34 AMIt never ceases to amaze me how our own perception on music changes over the years. When I first heard those quartets I found them dull and too "advanced" (especially the one in G major), but now they sounded like completely different and attractive pieces. Granted, the G major quartet is not an easy piece, but I did find it more approachable this time. Have you ever heard his monumental Quintet in A major for clarinet, piano and string trio? All of the features you mentioned appear there in spades. That truly is a masterpiece, his last one to be more precise.
The A major Quintet is high on my "need to listen" list - I look forward to hearing it! There's also the G major Quintet for piano left-hand and strings - overall a very fine work with, again, a touchingly beautiful slow movement.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 06, 2024, 10:32:34 AMIt never ceases to amaze me how our own perception on music changes over the years. When I first heard those quartets I found them dull and too "advanced" (especially the one in G major), but now they sounded like completely different and attractive pieces. Granted, the G major quartet is not an easy piece, but I did find it more approachable this time. Have you ever heard his monumental Quintet in A major for clarinet, piano and string trio? All of the features you mentioned appear there in spades. That truly is a masterpiece, his last one to be more precise.
I really don't know the Schmidt quartets at all. Which performances do you rate and how do they (the works not the performances) compare musically to say the Zemlinsky quartets which I think are utterly remarkable.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 06, 2024, 10:19:30 PMI really don't know the Schmidt quartets at all. Which performances do you rate and how do they (the works not the performances) compare musically to say the Zemlinsky quartets which I think are utterly remarkable.
So far I only know the disc I posted the other day. Since that disc contains the only performances I have heard (for now), they sounded considerably apt, so did the recording. If you know or are familiar with Schmidt's Symphony No. 3, you will have an idea about the sound world of those quartets. It's music without much agitation, they have a pensive and autumnal nature, just like immense lyricism. The 2nd Quartet is more chromatic, it's sort of close to Reger's style, but with less academic vibe. They develop with no hurry. On the other hand, Zemlinsky's quartets have more incisive gestures, piquant ideas and forward momentum as you know. I hope it helps.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 07, 2024, 09:05:45 AMSo far I only know the disc I posted the other day. Since that disc contains the only performances I have heard (for now), they sounded considerably apt, so did the recording. If you know or are familiar with Schmidt's Symphony No. 3, you will have an idea about the sound world of those quartets. It's music without much agitation, they have a pensive and autumnal nature, just like immense lyricism. The 2nd Quartet is more chromatic, it's sort of close to Reger's style, but with less academic vibe. They develop with no hurry. On the other hand, Zemlinsky's quartets have more incisive gestures, piquant ideas and forward momentum as you know. I hope it helps.
The work I would compare the Schmidt second quartet to is Pfitzner's op 36 quartet, this one
https://open.spotify.com/album/3y8KbNzjKB7yLlDnXBcNpp?highlight=spotify:track:3S166xglgqtGacGnkoxP0n
Quote from: Mandryka on June 07, 2024, 09:20:10 AMThe work I would compare the Schmidt second quartet to is Pfitzner's op 36 quartet, this one
https://open.spotify.com/album/3y8KbNzjKB7yLlDnXBcNpp?highlight=spotify:track:3S166xglgqtGacGnkoxP0n
Judging by what I heard it definitely shares that understated mood and similar writing.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 07, 2024, 09:05:45 AMSo far I only know the disc I posted the other day. Since that disc contains the only performances I have heard (for now), they sounded considerably apt, so did the recording. If you know or are familiar with Schmidt's Symphony No. 3, you will have an idea about the sound world of those quartets. It's music without much agitation, they have a pensive and autumnal nature, just like immense lyricism. The 2nd Quartet is more chromatic, it's sort of close to Reger's style, but with less academic vibe. They develop with no hurry. On the other hand, Zemlinsky's quartets have more incisive gestures, piquant ideas and forward momentum as you know. I hope it helps.
thankyou - really illuminating descriptions!
A great mystery has finally been solved. This recording of Schmidt's Piano Quintet (https://www.discogs.com/release/13441747-Franz-Schmidt-Karl-Andreas-Kolly-Sarastro-Quartett-Musikkollegium-Winterthur-Werner-Andreas-Albert-C) is listed all over the disc, and on Discogs, as being in D major, but Schmidt NEVER WROTE a D major Piano Quintet. It is the G major Quintet. It absolutely staggers me that every proofreader in the whole process, and those afterwards, did not consult the score to make sure they were correct.
Quote from: André on December 01, 2021, 04:05:32 PM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71drgOBNdiL._SL400_.jpg)
Listening to the 4th as I write, after Welser-Möst, Moralt, Rajter (last week) and before Mehta (tomorrow).
It is indeed a very, very fine performance, definitely digging deeper into the score than WM and Rajter, but less than Moralt, whose searing conception is carried out by the Wiener Symphoniker as if it was their last concert on this earth.
I noticed a couple of thematic connections with other composers' works. The opening trumpet solo (reprised at the beginning of III) is varied into a motto that is used by Strauss in Elektra (Elektra's opening scene, when she calls out the ghost of her slain father: 'Agamemnon!') - and then in II, Delius' shadow hovers, especially in the ascending scales of the long opening theme, first heard on the cello (hardly noticeable), then on the strings (more so) and then the clarinet and oboe (unmistakeable). I'm sure these are not quotes, not even influences other than a common Austro-German post-romantic heritage. Still, for some strange reason these perceived links to Strauss and Delius make me appreciate Schmidt even more.
Have you heard the Sinaisky or Jonathan Berman? Both of these accounts are quite fine even if they don't quite erase Mehta's towering performance. For the record, I do like both Järvi performances a lot as well.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 04, 2024, 04:15:17 PMA fine tribute to Schmidt on his 150th anniversary would be a new recording of his string quartets, being this Nimbus CD the only one that with good sound and has both quartets. This music is interesting and it grows on you with repeated listens.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/NI5467.jpg)
I agree, although I would say the two string quartets are very different in character. The first--probably my absolute favourite string quartet in the entire repertoire -- is very much Beethoven based with more interesting chromatic harmony and unforgettable melodies. The second is more diffuse and at times seems to be exploring chromaticism almost for its own sake. Although interesting, I feel it's possibly his weakest chamber work, though the small output is of a uniformly high standard with the A major clarinet quintet again being quite exceptional.
the best complete cycle is for me clearly Rajter -- only he really consistently brings the necessary love and warmth to this repertoire even if there is the occasional miscalculation like the sluggish finale to no. 3. No.4 does have some competition -- Mehta's is possibly the greatest thing he ever did and the Moralt is also very moving in a work where I've heard some really terrible performances (Welser-Möst is just one of them)
Franz Schmidt on the Jens and Joe Show:
Quote from: lunar22 on September 23, 2024, 01:04:49 AMthe best complete cycle is for me clearly Rajter -- only he really consistently brings the necessary love and warmth to this repertoire even if there is the occasional miscalculation like the sluggish finale to no. 3. No.4 does have some competition -- Mehta's is possibly the greatest thing he ever did and the Moralt is also very moving in a work where I've heard some really terrible performances (Welser-Möst is just one of them)
There have been at least 5 cycles recorded after the Rajter: Neeme and Paavo Jarvi, Vasily Sinaisky, Fabio Luisi, and Jonathan Berman.
Quote from: lunar22 on September 23, 2024, 01:04:49 AMthe best complete cycle is for me clearly Rajter -- only he really consistently brings the necessary love and warmth to this repertoire even if there is the occasional miscalculation like the sluggish finale to no. 3. No.4 does have some competition -- Mehta's is possibly the greatest thing he ever did and the Moralt is also very moving in a work where I've heard some really terrible performances (Welser-Möst is just one of them)
I'm going to have to disagree. I think Fabio Luisi outclasses Rajter on all fronts.
Luisi is the main competitor and at one stage I had seriously thought of getting that cycle as well. In the end, I restricted myself to his 2nd (my favourite of the symphonies) which for me doesn't quite match Rajter but is still a serious contender.
A remarkable, thoughtful and enthusiastic analysis of one of Schmidt's towering masterpieces: his Fourth Symphony. Having watched the video with enormous pleasure, my admiration and love for the work increased even more. What a great, great, great composition.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 11, 2025, 09:09:57 PMA remarkable, thoughtful and enthusiastic analysis of one of Schmidt's towering masterpieces: his Fourth Symphony. Having watched the video with enormous pleasure, my admiration and love for the work increased even more. What a great, great, great composition.
I haven't watched this video, but I can only nod my head in agreement with sentiment expressed. Schmidt has risen in my estimation over the years. Once I started to dig into his oeuvre, I came away with newfound appreciation for his music. His 3rd symphony seems to get unfairly ignored when talking about his four symphonies for some reason, but it was this particular work that helped me understand the composer even more. I already loved the 1st, 2nd and 4th symphonies, but it was the 3rd that gave me the most problems, but then suddenly it was as if a gate had opened up. The performance that did it for me was Luisi on Querstand label. I highly recommend the Luisi cycle to everyone here as, for me, it is without question my favorite. Perhaps part of the reason the performances are so touching is because Luisi shares a personal history with the composer in that his music moved him when he was a teenager. The work in question was
Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln.
Anyway, I may have to do another dive into Schmidt's music again soon.
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on May 12, 2025, 03:59:14 PMI haven't watched this video, but I can only nod my head in agreement with sentiment expressed. Schmidt has risen in my estimation over the years. Once I started to dig into his oeuvre, I came away with newfound appreciation for his music. His 3rd symphony seems to get unfairly ignored when talking about his four symphonies for some reason, but it was this particular work that helped me understand the composer even more. I already loved the 1st, 2nd and 4th symphonies, but it was the 3rd that gave me the most problems, but then suddenly it was as if a gate had opened up. The performance that did it for me was Luisi on Querstand label. I highly recommend the Luisi cycle to everyone here as, for me, it is without question my favorite. Perhaps part of the reason the performances are so touching is because Luisi shares a personal history with the composer in that his music moved him when he was a teenager. The work in question was Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln.
Anyway, I may have to do another dive into Schmidt's music again soon.
Like you, I also struggled with the 3rd Symphony. In my personal case, it was the recording of Paavo Järvi and the Frankfurt Radio S.O. on DG that opened my ears to that elusive score. It's not my favorite of his symphonies, but I do like it.
Quote from: Daverz on March 14, 2025, 11:15:07 AMFranz Schmidt on the Jens and Joe Show:
I've really enjoyed those podcast videos on Capriccio's YT channel! Often they focus on rare repertoire and feature interviews with conductors/artists involved with their recordings, and feature generous sound clips. Jens is insightful as always, and Joe has a really infectious sense of humor! Their personalities counterbalance each other nicely. :)
Quote from: kyjo on May 13, 2025, 03:21:40 PMI've really enjoyed those podcast videos on Capriccio's YT channel! Often they focus on rare repertoire and feature interviews with conductors/artists involved with their recordings, and feature generous sound clips. Jens is insightful as always, and Joe has a really infectious sense of humor! Their personalities counterbalance each other nicely. :)
By the way, Jonathan Berman also interviewed Fabio Luisi about his performances of Schmidt. This is on a small channel, the Franz Schmidt Project:
https://www.youtube.com/@thefranzschmidtproject1356/videos
The Jonathan Berman interview with Fabio Luisi which
@Daverz mentioned:
Quite excited that the Spanish National Orchestra and Chorus, plus vocal soloists, under the baton of Fabio Luisi, will perform Schmidt's The Book of the Seven Seals here in Madrid in November this year (14, 15 and 16)!
Quote from: ritter on May 14, 2025, 11:00:55 PMQuite excited that the Spanish National Orchestra and Chorus, plus vocal soloists, under the baton of Fabio Luisi, will perform Schmidt's The Book of the Seven Seals here in Madrid in November this year (14, 15 and 16)!
Excellent! Luisi is fabulous in Schmidt's music.
An unmissable concert, Rafael. Enjoy!