GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: Que on October 17, 2008, 11:38:38 PM

Title: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Que on October 17, 2008, 11:38:38 PM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028947810841.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/lang/en/currency/EUR/hnum/9984415/rk/classic/rsk/home)
              click pictures for samples

Well, I know De Marchi from Vivaldi operas - he knows his stuff, an excellent conductor! :)

Latest release - La sonnambula

The latest L'Oiseau Lyre release is a brand new studio recording and the most complete and authentic recording of La sonnambula ever. This recording features the two leading bel canto super stars of today, Cecilia Bartoli and Juan Diego Flórez, joining forces for the first time.

It is the first ever recording with a mezzo-soprano in the lead role, and the first ever recording with a period instrument orchestra. Many of the cadenzas sung by Cecilia Bartoli are those used by the great 19th Century interpreter of the role, Maria Malibran; this release concludes Cecilia's celebration of the bicentenary year of Maria Malibran (1808 - 1836).

The album is released on October 17th and will be accompanied by a continued global tour covering Europe, Japan and America.


Q
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: knight66 on October 17, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
I was really interested in this until I read Bartoli's name. I am pretty allergic to her vocal technique. I will wait to see what is said about her performance. An alternative to my Callas would be welcome and I have an instinct that Bellini was after a cooler more classical sound than the rather full bodied sound I customarily hear.

Mike
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Que on October 18, 2008, 12:03:24 AM
Quote from: knight on October 17, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
I was really interested in this until I read Bartoli's name. I am pretty allergic to her vocal technique.

I know what you mean: her "wobble" or "flutter". Funny, I can accept it from Conchita Supervia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchita_Superv%C3%ADa), but it gets on my nerves with Bartoli. Probably beacuse its not just a natural characteric of the voice - as with Supervia - but, as you say, of her personal technique. But it was (nearly) absent in her early recordings, you know. It became later much more prominent, though it seems it very much varies from recording to recording. The Gluck opera arias disc I got a while ago is very enjoyable.

Q
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: The new erato on October 18, 2008, 12:38:24 AM
Quote from: knight on October 17, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
I was really interested in this until I read Bartoli's name. I am pretty allergic to her vocal technique.

So am I. She sings lot of repertory I'm interested in, but her singing often leaves me completely exhausted. Her Vivaldi album gives me a headache, one of very few discs to do that.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: knight66 on October 18, 2008, 12:54:37 AM
She is certainly capable of producing beautiful sound and in a French song disc, she has no pretext for the machine-gun rattle. I would have thought her timbre to be too dark for the Bellini. We shall see.

Mike
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Que on October 18, 2008, 01:08:58 AM
Quote from: knight on October 18, 2008, 12:54:37 AM
machine-gun rattle

;D
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: yashin on October 18, 2008, 01:40:08 AM
strange, in the world of ego to have Bartoli only on the front. where is florez? on the back?  Cover not big enough for noth ego i guess and she probably out sells him
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: The new erato on October 18, 2008, 01:46:24 AM
Quote from: knight on October 18, 2008, 12:54:37 AM
......rattle.
I thought Rattle was Kozena's prerogative?  ;D
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Tsaraslondon on October 18, 2008, 01:54:47 AM
Quote from: knight on October 17, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
I was really interested in this until I read Bartoli's name. I am pretty allergic to her vocal technique. I will wait to see what is said about her performance. An alternative to my Callas would be welcome and I have an instinct that Bellini was after a cooler more classical sound than the rather full bodied sound I customarily hear.

Mike

Ditto, Mike. I have heard the Sonnambula aria she does on her Maria CD, and it does not predispose me favourably towards this set; her manner hectoring and over vibrant, quite at odds with the character of Amina. Whatever scholarship went into the recording of this album, I refuse to believe that Maria Malibran sounded like this. Callas and Sutherland may not have the weight of scholarship behind them, but I am convinced they get closer to the spirit of Bellini.

Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Wendell_E on October 18, 2008, 03:12:31 AM
Quote from: yashin on October 18, 2008, 01:40:08 AM
strange, in the world of ego to have Bartoli only on the front. where is florez? on the back?  Cover not big enough for noth ego i guess and she probably out sells him

Well the opera is called La Sonnambula, not Elvino.  A quick look a album covers on amazon.com reveals covers with Callas, Sutherland (even Pavarotti doesn't make it to the cover), Dessay, and, on DVD, Moffo and Mei all by their lonesomes.

The only cover a saw with a guy on it was a live performance from the 1967 Edinburgh that has Callas with some guy in a kilt.   ;D
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Heather Harrison on October 18, 2008, 05:39:45 PM
I will be interested to hear this.  Bartoli's technique can be rather hit-and-miss; hopefully this will turn out to be one of her better recordings, but it is hard to predict.  At least she has been exploring little-known repertoire and (lately) exploring historically informed performance practices in early Romantic opera.  Most of the big stars aren't nearly so adventurous.  Maybe others will follow in her footsteps and there will be more options available in the near future for HIP early Romantic opera.

Heather
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Hector on October 30, 2008, 05:14:39 AM
It occurs to me that this will not be the first.

Opera Rara issued Donizetti's 'Imelda de' Lambertazzi' with the OAE under Mark Elder earlier this year.

How do they know this was the way people sang in 1830?
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Wendell_E on October 30, 2008, 05:35:46 AM
Quote from: Hector on October 30, 2008, 05:14:39 AM
It occurs to me that this will not be the first.

Opera Rara issued Donizetti's 'Imelda de' Lambertazzi' with the OAE under Mark Elder earlier this year.



And ten years ago, the Sony recording of Lucia di Lammermoor with Mackerras conducting the Hanover band.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: M forever on October 30, 2008, 09:19:44 PM
And Rattle did "Das Rheingold" with the OAE at the Proms not too long ago.


Quote from: Hector on October 30, 2008, 05:14:39 AM
How do they know this was the way people sang in 1830?

Circumstantial evidence.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Hector on November 04, 2008, 06:35:14 AM
Quote from: Wendell_E on October 30, 2008, 05:35:46 AM
And ten years ago, the Sony recording of Lucia di Lammermoor with Mackerras conducting the Hanover band.

This had completely dropped off my radar screen probably because it isn't any good.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Drasko on December 07, 2008, 06:57:25 PM
Bartoli's La sonnambula is currently the disc of the week on BBC radio 3, so you can listen to about last 25 minutes of the opera online, at their site, for the next five days:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fvkn9

click on Listen and then move the player slider to 2h 47min 30sec
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Tsaraslondon on January 07, 2009, 11:53:08 PM
The Bartoli La Sonnambula is reviewed in February's Gramophone and January's BBC Magazine. Writing for BBC Magazine, Christopher Cook, though finding much to admire in the singing of Florez and D'Arcangelo, and the conducting of Scintilla, is not impressed by Bartoli's Amina, concluding , "No Amina. No Sonnambula.

The Gramophone review, on the other hand is full of praise. The editor has entrusted the review to Patrick O'Connor, rather than their usual bel canto specialist, John Steane, presumably because his reactions are likely to have been less favourable. It is also one of their discs of the month. I can't help wondering if this has something to do with Decca demanding the set get as much favourable publicity as possible. Years ago, when I worked at the Music Discount Centre, I remember a similar thing happening when Decca released it's new recording of Tosca, with Kiri Te Kanawa, and conducted by Solti. Though the set was distinctly mediocre and certainly posed no challenge to most of the then extant recordings, it was released in a blaze of publicity to ecstatic reviews in the Gramophone. The public weren't taken in; we sold very few copies and it was remaindered within months. I seem to remember Edward Greenfield, the original reviewer of that Tosca admitting, however, that he would not be throwing away his Callas/De Sabata or Price/Karajan sets. O'Connor similarly states that he will not be getting rid of his Callas or Sutherland sets of La Sonnambula. It remains to be seen if the Bartoli Sonnambula will suffer the same fate as that Solti Tosca, which is now all but forgotten.


Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Sarastro on January 08, 2009, 01:09:33 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 07, 2009, 11:53:08 PM
I can't help wondering if this has something to do with Decca demanding the set get as much favourable publicity as possible.

Ah, that is what I am always talking about - over-promotion! I certainly won't listen to this Sonnambula unless I happen to be on an isolated island having nothing else to listen to. Enough was Bartoli's Ah, non guingi from Maria.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: knight66 on January 09, 2009, 01:05:57 PM
I have heard an extract from it in which Bartoli sounds very odd; breathy and childlike. The reviews I met mention this as a characteristic of her singing. She has become increasingly mannered. The project seems like a ego stroking. I think her best earning years for her record company are years behind her.

Mike
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Sarastro on January 09, 2009, 05:34:19 PM
Quote from: knight on January 09, 2009, 01:05:57 PM
I think her best earning years for her record company are years behind her.

One of my acquaintances, a great fan of Bartoli, has stated the same recently. She said she couldn't even finish listening this Sonnambula.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Tsaraslondon on January 10, 2009, 03:46:34 AM
Incidentally, this is the second new La Sommabula in recent months. Has anyone heard the Dessay version?

Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Sarastro on January 10, 2009, 05:01:35 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 10, 2009, 03:46:34 AM
Has anyone heard the Dessay version?

With Francesco Meli on Virgin Classics? I have... The reviews posed it as the original edition, but there are plenty of cuts and transposition (is it the word? I don't know how it is called in English when singers sing something in a different key, say, half-tone down...). Dessay is good, though it's clear she has lost her brilliance after the vocal problems and singing roles such as Manon and Marie, I think.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Tsaraslondon on January 10, 2009, 06:45:07 AM
Quote from: Sarastro on January 10, 2009, 05:01:35 AM
With Francesco Meli on Virgin Classics? I have... The reviews posed it as the original edition, but there are plenty of cuts and transposition

Well I don't bother too much about those. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Bellini himself approved different versions to accomodate different singers, and there are plenty of cuts and transpositions in the Callas versions.

Also, though Decca, announce that the Bartoli recording is a restoration of the Malibran version, I'm sure I'm right in thinking that Frederica Von Stade sang the role of Amina. Presumably, being a mezzo soprano, she too would have sung it in the Malibran keys. I'm also pretty sure she would have been a lot more suited to the role than Bartoli.





Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Sarastro on January 10, 2009, 06:53:29 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 10, 2009, 06:45:07 AM
Well I don't bother too much about those.

Me too; I was just anticipating what had been written in reviews.
Title: Re: Romantic Opera goes HIP!
Post by: Wendell_E on January 10, 2009, 07:26:49 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on January 10, 2009, 06:45:07 AM
I'm sure I'm right in thinking that Frederica Von Stade sang the role of Amina. Presumably, being a mezzo soprano, she too would have sung it in the Malibran keys.






Yeah, she sang the opera in San Francisco in 1984, and according to the cast sheet at the SF Opera website, the "Mezzo-soprano "Malibran" version of the opera" was used:

http://archive.sfopera.com/reports/rptOpera-id789.pdf

But according to a review at the New York Times website, von Stade and SF Opera general director "decided that most of the radical transpositions Malibran used weren't necessary. In the end, Miss von Stade's first aria was taken down a tone, the first part of her final aria remained as written and the final ''Ah! non giunge'' went down a minor third. But she sang the rest of Amina's role untransposed."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B06E6DB173BF933A1575AC0A962948260